How Elite Athletes Perform Under Extreme Pressure — with Laird Hamilton and Gabby Reece

Transcript

All right, Gabby, Lar, we are so excited to have you guys here for this conversation. Um, so thanks so much for being here. Lar, let's kick it off with you. Um, so I don't know a ton about big wave surfing, but I have to imagine that you can't surf waves like that without getting a few bumps and bruises along the way occasionally. So tell us about one such time and then sort of what got you back out there. Uh probably one of the most memorable ones was uh we had a kind of unforcasted giant swell and uh I went out with some friends uh just actually just two of us, two teams of four guys and the waves just kept getting bigger and bigger and it was a unique weather

pattern so we didn't have any kind of helicopters or any anybody looking out and uh and I crashed on a on kind of, you know, what I would consider one of the bigger waves that I've ever ridden, which when you when I fell on that wave, I probably had to swim from 60 ft uh to get through the back of it. >> 60 ft underwater up. >> Yes. >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah. And but when I came up, my other friend was fortunately right there, so I was able to get on the jet ski and try to run away from the next wave. and and uh we were unsuccessful because we went into where the the first wave had broken and the water was so turbulent that we it slowed us down and then the next wave hit us and and uh I I disintegrated us I

would describe it just the beach disappeared and then we were driven you know hundreds of yards under the water when I came up I couldn't find my friend and then I found him and he was face down and so I went and uh swam over to him and turned put a tourniquet on him with my wets suit. I had to drobe so uh which I was naked. Um and then I had to swim and get the jet ski which was far away and got the ski. Got back to him. He was still conscious. Put him on the ski and and uh called the called on the radio and crash landed on the beach and ambulance came put him in the ambulance and uh and then uh I convinced another friend to to go back out with me. So, [laughter] I I

went back out. Um, and somebody asked me why you went back out. And I just said, "Well, because uh that opportunity will maybe only arise once in my lifetime." And I said, "You know, Tyrannos Tyrannosaurus Rex is dead, but he's alive today and he's out there. So, would you like to see him?" That I guess that convinced him. And so, we went back out and and uh and rode again. But, I've had a lot of practice of kind of getting back on the horse. I've been hurt a lot of times and and I think that's a skill. I think you learn how to become good at that. I think the first time you get hurt, you can be discouraged, but once you've been hurt hundreds of times, you just like, "Okay, here we are again. You time to get, you know, time to go back

and and uh and go back to it." >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's probably a lot of parallels with kind of getting back on the horse even in business, which obviously you guys have have done a lot of as well. So curious like you know sounds like you've learned to really take a punch. Um but what have been kind of some of the moments on the business side where you kind of questioned whether you were on the right track or kind of what what should come next? >> Well I think for us we the way we've individually and together uh approach things were we're first of all what do you believe in what you're doing? And so Lar always jokes about your motivation for being doing big wave surfing is the most um prevalent when you are under the

water. Like why are you really there? You trying to get attention or is this something you really love? Yeah. >> And I think all of all of you know like a lot of times doing a creating a new business you are held under often and what makes it you know the thing why you say okay not only will I when I come back up I'll I'll go again is that I I you genuinely believe in what you're doing and and sometimes listen we've had other businesses that failed and they were the ones that led us to the next. Um, so I I think it's a combination of do I believe this and is this a viable path in business so we keep going or you know what even if we've dedicated years to it, maybe this isn't going to work and and also knowing when to when to

call it. >> Yeah. And I think that that's actually one of the most challenging situations in business is when you have, you know, maybe a product that's like kind of working. Um, it's actually hardest when it's kind of working because if it's not working, you're like, "All right, we're out." But if it's sort of working, like how do you differentiate between those situations? Like how do you know when to call it versus when to say, "No, I'm I'm all in. I just need to keep charging." I mean I I personally go off of my kind of my instincts and my intuition about and you know is it valid enough to continue to pursue because if it does work it will be and but that comes to like seeing what it means like having an an idea of what it will mean if it is successful before it is really knowing

that and being confident in that >> and I think what we've also seen is if your business is let's say you're going through a patch but is it still attracting the right people like so for example layered superfood has gone through its own things but because for example the the second CEO we got was even better it was like okay well this guy's not going to sign on if if this isn't working so I think it's also is it drawing better talent >> or is in fact it not and I think that's sometimes a good indication >> yeah yeah that makes sense um I guess both in performance sports and in business there's um a lot of uncertainty And um I'm curious like what practices or mental frameworks you guys have

developed to sort of stay flexible and be able to deal with that uncertainty which you know is is kind of a constant in either of those fields. >> Well, I think what what's interesting is when you work in sport and performance, let's say you talk about longevity, the number one trait we can have is adaptability and resilience. And that's true to life. And so I think we had that opportunity to build that muscle in sport. And then then you start to [clears throat] look at your training and you go, is this helping me be more adaptable? Like you'll see people like, well, I'm only only eating this or I'm only eating that. And it's like, yeah, that's fine and dandy when you're totally in control of your environment, but what happens if you get thrown off course? Are you

adaptable and are you resilient? >> Yeah. And I mean, particularly in surfing, like you're never in control of your environment really. >> So it starts early. Yeah, >> it starts early and uh and I think that's a probably I mean a lot of our training really has >> kind of metaphors for life like there I call it a formulaic process and if you look at the formulaic process for success you know that perseverance the creativity all those things that's true in every aspect of your life whether it's business whether it's fitness whether it's relationship whether it's your nutrition every everywhere and so you know I I feel like the ocean for me has been an incredible teacher.

>> First of all, patience and and definitely uh a level of humility. It puts you in in the proper perspective about where you exist in the universe, especially when you're, you know, when a wave has you, you're kind of like, well, there's not much I'm doing right now, and it doesn't really care who I am or what I have. So, I better [laughter] I better figure out how to get out of here. And and so, yeah, I I would say that uh the ocean being the teacher, but then using those lessons in the rest of your life. And it's a muscle, you know, these are all muscles that you get good at. failure, success, these are I mean these are muscles.

>> Yeah. So, you know, you've both spent decades at kind of peak performance and obviously that's not easy. So, I'm curious, how have you guys avoided burnout and made sure that you can like continue to perform both in the business and in the um athletic environments? Well, it's it's been easier in the athletic in a certain way because I I believe even we've been together for almost 30 years. And so there's this interesting thing. You'll hear people always talking about their tribe, their community. This is a real thing. You you need other people to help you stay in pursuit because you don't have the energy every I have the energy 50% of the time. I don't wake up every day with it. And so I can look outside and look at Lar and be like, "Oh, well, he's

rolling. I got to roll." And so I think building the right community um in your work and in your life really is has been for me an open tool and and then you know Lar is hyper curious >> and so it's it's I have a tendency to say oh I'm pretty good at this I want to stay here and he's like I sort of got this what's next and so that is a great reminder that curiosity and openness >> um to to not know and be a beginner is also really helpful. Yeah. And I like an elusive goal.

>> I like an elusive a goal where it's always moving. You're just you're always just almost getting and then it shifts. >> Maybe you should be a crypto founder. >> So then you're in pursuit, you know, an elusive goal. So you're always in pursuit because it's about the pursuit. You arrive. If you arrive, you're like, "Okay, now what?" Now what? >> So an elusive goal that constantly moves. And then like Gabby said, just the making it new. Like okay, you're good at it. Now do it close-eyed. Now do it backwards. Now do it with one hand. out, you know, it's like make it make it so that you're make keep for me because of how long I've served. I if I just did a traditional discipline, I would I would already be >> I'd be done. Yeah. I'd be probably on a golf course, even though I hate golf,

but [laughter] you know, >> too predictable. Yeah. >> They're getting in fights at the golf course. That'd be good. [laughter] >> Yeah. Um Yeah. I mean, it sounds like, you know, in in uh in company building, I think there's definitely times for both. like you need to have some periods in which you're kind of in exploratory mode and you need to be kind of pushing the creative boundaries, but then you also have times where you just need to operate and you need to be kind of doubling down on the thing that you do really well. Um, so it's very interesting to hear that you have that kind of dynamic with each other. >> Well, and it's always doing the extra. I think um I had a meeting actually um with a Whole Foods CEO not not too long ago and our company, this particular company is 10 years old and he said,

"Can I give you a word of advice?" And I was like, "Sure." And he said, "Pretend like you're you're be a beginner." And I thought that's interesting because you do come with this energy. And both Lar and I have the mindset of like we'll do what it takes. Like it's like, "Oh, that's not below us." It's like, "What job needs to get done and how and how can we help and fill the gaps?" And I think that that attitude really comes in in, you know, from sport because you can't be like, "Oh, that's your job." It's like, "No, we got what's it going to take?" Yeah. >> And so I think both of us have like, oh, I need to carry the bag from there to there. And because the team's moving or we're rolling, it's this idea of doing what it takes and trying to have that

energy of, okay, let's pretend in a way this is the first day. >> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah. No, you you need that kind of it's the first day mentality for the rest of the time. >> It's exhausting actually, >> especially in a relationship. >> Yes. Which actually I wanted to ask you guys about. So I think obviously [laughter] >> that >> No, no, it's good. It's good. We're all here to learn from you guys, so no problem. >> Um, >> we're learning. >> Yeah, we're on the road. >> Well, we all are, but you know, I think you guys have, uh, have a lot to show for it. So, um, given the, you know, almost 30 years of partnership, um, certainly there are differences with co-founder relationships, but you guys have both, and I'm curious like how have you guys learned to argue productively to kind of maintain a relationship

through what I'm sure have been a lot of stressful moments both in business and in sport? Yes, sad dear. [laughter] >> That is so not true. I just want to say that is not true. >> You're right. >> I think [laughter] you know there's a smart man. You're right. Happy wife, happy [laughter] life. >> Yeah. >> Well, unhappy wife, unhappy life. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I also I I [laughter] >> totally I know it's a little totally not true. Um I think there's a there's a couple variables. Sometimes you're in it and for example, let's say you're a founder of a company and maybe the the jeopardy of the company existing is on the line. So that feels connected to our survival. Yeah. Right.

So I think what happens is a lot of times and because Lar has been in a lot of truly dangerous situations, his perspective his the best thing he ever says to me that helps me is he's like everything is going to be okay and it is okay. It's also having the moments where you can separate is this really life and death and oftentimes it's not. And so how do you come in it emotionally with this sort of presence and calmness to navigate whatever the ups and downs are and sort of not get swept up in in the emotion and and and also we have different jobs.

>> We respect each other a lot. We have different skill set and um and we have a saying at our house like leave your sword at the door. I I I think the best is you want to work with a bunch of alphas, but you you want to be supporting each other and elevating each other because that'll make the whole situation better and not compete internally. Um because that's really not going to be helpful. So I think that doing that in our marriage and in our business has has been helpful. >> Well, yeah, that and mutual assured destruction. So >> that's true. We do have >> that keeps everybody in check. Yeah.

>> Know your role. >> Yeah. >> She's the pilot light. I'm the flamethrower. You just can't have the flamethrower on all the time, but you need the pilot light. It's consistent. Yeah. I mean, Gabby and I have built some homes together. That usually that's known to destroy a lot of relationships. Again, >> destroy a home by building a home. Yeah. >> Yeah. And and for me, it's not about the textures and the colors. I'm worried about the beams and the f, you know, the structure. Yeah. >> Know your role. Assume your role. And uh and then decide if you know how important it is to you. Do you really want to, you know, does it mean that much that you're going to really put that kind of attention to it or like I really don't care about the color of the carpet? Honestly, I really don't. So,

knock yourself out. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> But there's a lot of discussions. Don't put yourself especially in the business part or [laughter] or you don't want to hear it. Yeah. >> Like when do you turn it off? I think that's a really important. You might have people here who are friends and created a company with somebody. It's also remembering why you were friends or why you became together and also continuing to cultivate that part of the relationship because it it just reinforces even the business and the execution. >> Um, so if I understand correctly, you guys have also taken a company public >> and I'm curious what that process was like for you.

>> It was like going to college. >> Oh jeez. >> I didn't go to college but it was a definitely a learning experience. >> How I imagined college? It was a learning experience >> and you guys are tech guys so that's the right that's the that that's the right part of the business to take uh public. We have a CPG product which is a whole other beast but it was a great great >> now I know what it looks the road like from inside. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Now I'm not just observing. I'm like oh yeah know I went through that. I know what's going on over >> and everybody loves a board you know. It's like oh you got to talk to the board. But um I think uh >> and not a surfboard.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Not a surfboard. [laughter] That's right. So >> it's not a surfboard. We we were doing the road show which is pretty tedious. Um we when we finished it was like well we we'll probably never do that again and how interesting that we got to have that experience. >> We were fortunate it was during co so it was all online. >> It was amazing but we did pants down here barefoot and then like a grown-up shoe. >> Not the naked teacher one where he stands up back as Oh my gosh. >> Yeah. So it was it was it was great. I mean I if you'd asked us you know 10 years ago do you think you'd do that? Um certainly not. Definitely not it when I was getting kicked out of school.

>> Yeah, that's right. [laughter] >> True. >> Wait, why'd you get kicked out of school? Now I gotta ask. >> What's that? >> Why'd you get kicked out of school? >> Uh, it's a long list. Like, yeah. >> Well, Lar had a teacher that said, you know, you can't eat your surfboard. And Lar was like, hm, I don't know. >> Maybe >> like what are you going to do? >> I might be able to. >> Yeah. >> Amazing. Um, so in thinking about like how you compound success, um, how do you break your bad habits and form your good ones? >> That's an excellent question. That's that's a lifelong thing of, you know, this is how I do it. This is who I am.

And it's being willing, I always think it's willing to lock into your your values, your true deep values, and then always being willing to change your mind everywhere else. and being willing to say I was wrong or we can do it a different and better way and that's why again it's good to have a good you know either seauite or community so that people you trust go hey we we should do it this way and you think oh that makes me uncomfortable but I'm certainly willing to look at it >> yeah my my mom had a a beautiful saying that she said to me when I was young if you can't be true to yourself then you can't be true to anyone else >> so I just go back to me and I'd be like okay do I really is this you know serving me or can I be a man of my word

Cuz if I can to myself, then I definitely can to Gabby and my daughters and my friends. But if I can't and I'm always inner battling and I can't even live up to my own word with myself, then what good is my word outside of myself? >> Yeah. Rich Rich Deini wrote a book and u he was from military and one of the one of the many traits of a leader is besides uh total accountability is um and creating an environment for people to be better and more successful. Um it's also uh being willing when you recognize you're wrong to take that accountability and go hey I know we said we're going this direction I've reevaluated now we're going this way and not being afraid of that.

>> Yeah. So in terms of you know changing course or making decisions obviously some of it is like trusting your own instincts but some of it's also considering like external data sources. So um you know I'm wearing a Whoop and an Apple watch. I'm sure a lot of folks in the audience are as well. I'm curious like how what do you think is the right role of data? Like to what extent do you incorporate it or how much are you like you know what we have data out the wazoo like we are so over data we don't want to hear about it. [laughter] Gabby's laughing because I feel like there we're so saturated with data right now and I want I want experience. Yeah.

>> Like give me how how it's been working for you. How what have you implemented? How has it worked for you? And then let me see that and use that as a reference instead of just another this one and that one because we're just data out. And so I'm I'm so that's I'm leaning that direction. I mean I I always say science and data just confirms you know intuition. Mhm. >> Again, you have a feeling, oh, maybe the earth is frown. Yeah. And then you get the science, it's round. It's like, you know, so I think that we're doing that. I think a lot of times you you intuitively send something and then you and the data may confirm it or or may disprove it. But I just use that as a kind of a, you know, as a baseline reference, but I I really want

experience. I just want give me experience. I need that's what I'm looking for. >> Yeah. >> And and obviously in work, it's an indication. Like if we have 30 SKs and we go, "Hey, this one's really rolling." you know, so you can use it as a marker and an indication because you want to lean into certain things, but I think for it to be and it's different when you're dealing with like crypto or something where it's it's it's so technical. Um, but it's getting that far away view, that 30,000 foot view, and really looking at well, also not only where is it based on the data, but truly where do I think it's going ba but based on like how my neighbors living and my mother's living because I think we get so here and it's like, yeah, that's four people.

>> Yeah. But if but it doesn't feel right. Like if you sense it's like, oh, this doesn't feel right. >> And then the data data comes along and shows you that it's not right, you're like, oh yeah, you know, that's I kind of felt that. I think I think that other part of us that sensory system is ahead of it is ahead of the data if you're clear and you everything's operating good and you're not numbed by just all the stuff that we're doing to ourselves in the world. >> What what were we just reading where or the talking about the guy the guy was talking about our DNA is actually really an antenna >> and so we don't give it a lot of credit um because we're so smart, right? Um, but I I think uh that's why we are such pushers of trying to take care of

yourself, your antenna, your avatar, so you're just a little clearer, you're a little more well-rested to receive those that information. >> Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, so I guess actually that's a really good segue to our lightning round, which we'll do, and then we'll hand it over to the audience for a few questions. So, um, in terms of taking care of yourself, uh, if founders are kind of thinking about optimizing or maybe overoptimizing in some cases their mornings, um, what do you think is one daily practice that is actually really meaningful and sets you guys up to have clarity and energy for the day?

>> Get good sleep. Everybody, >> how do we how do we get good sleep? What's the >> go to bed at the same time and wake up at the same time? And we we all think, you know, >> big Brian Johnson energy. >> No, not Brian Johnson. Um cuz Brian Johnson isn't >> Well, he does go to bed at the same time. >> Yeah. But he's not living while he's here. He's But he's in his I appreciate him cuz maybe we'll get some information that will all enhance our life. So, I'm I'm all for what Brian's doing for Brian. And listen, everybody has their path. So, I'm like, cool. What three things have you learned? Great. I'm not eating mush. Perfect. Let's go. But I think um you know, getting good sleep.

So, around the same time, and we are no matter what, our biology hasn't changed for 250,000 years yet. I know we'll all put chips in our head and we'll be smarter than ever and that's great, but right now where we stand, we're still set up with the sun >> and so we the, you know, I know people are busy. If you have little kids, I get it. We have three daughters, but get to bed around the same time and try to wake up uh early because that's that's the only time we recover. Our brain rinses, all of that. And then I I know Lar has other >> well solar gazing. I mean, I've been solar gazing for 30 years, but if you can get in the sunlight when the sun rises and look directly at the sun, you can build up from 30 seconds to 15 20

minutes. You produce melatonin in your retina that you use in your sleep um at night. >> But I always say if you wake up and see the sunrise, you're probably tired when the sun goes down. But you do there's a bunch of uh chemical reactions that happen. We're sunlight creatures. No sun, no life. Yeah. >> And so sun dark, >> you know, reduce exposure, especially on with the blue, you got to work on that. You got to have blue blockers. You got to have, you know, different kind of screens. We just need to really think about that. >> Even our light bulbs, if I was any of you and if you have a office building, I would put plant growing lights. They still show white light, but for the people there, they're not flickering and it would be easier on the people. Yeah.

Full spectrum that are working for you all day long. Um, >> you know, and if you want the basics, it's like we eat real food. We're not obsessed about anything. You know, people make every they make it so so difficult and it there's I think make it something you can do over and over. What's the best habit? The one you're going to do, what exercise is the best, the one that you you'll do on a consistent basis. >> Yeah. And stress is the number one killer. >> It is perfect for all of you guys. >> Well, I'm just saying you can be the most fit, the most thing. So, you got to you got to compensate. You got to try to balance that that out. You got to figure out how >> and that's your value system. I think for us it's not at any cost,

>> right? >> I don't care how big a company could be. If it's at the cost of my health or my relationship or my family, that's not interesting um to me personally. >> Um okay, last question and then audience questions. Um tell us about a scar either literal or figurative. >> A scar >> like do you want to get like emotional imp one on your knee? Yeah. >> Oh, I have a fake knee. Yeah, I have a scar. I always say this. I think this I think all of us have our childhood wounds, right? Like my mother took a temporary hiatus from parenting for a while. And during that time also, my father passed. But what I realized as I got older is it was that was my homework.

>> We're all given homework. Like, hey, here's your homework. Now you get to work on it so you can graduate from that and move on. And and a lot of times our wounds are the things that sort of could make us really successful. But then how do we ch how do we turn that from um fear into uh oh these are opportunities and motivation? >> Yeah. >> And I I had a thousand stitches before I was like 16. So non-surgical >> with no no surgery just >> lot of lot of scars >> naked in the jungle rock cut tree whatever >> with an 11year-old.

>> So I had I I was my this the doctor was a friend and we would just go to his house and what Lar do now? Oh it's Thanksgiving. go to the kitchen and he just >> Wait, tell them about the foot one. I think that's a good one. >> Which one? Oh, the K knife. >> Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. Uh well, I was My dad told me that if I didn't go to school, I was going to be severely punished, which with him was pretty physical. So, the next day, I was in a tree with a giant K knife and I cut this branch and stuck it in my foot and my foot was stuck on the on the tree in the knife. So, I was trying to figure out I couldn't get the knife out of the tree, but I couldn't get my foot off the knife. And then so

then I hid then I stayed at my friend's house and I hid it. You know, I didn't show anybody because I think he said, "If you get cut again and we have to take you to get stitches, you're going to get punished." So then I like, "Oh yeah, I can't show them the cut cuz I'm going to get punished." And >> yeah, >> my mom found some really bloody socks and then he said, "If you ever get cut again and don't tell us you're going to get punished." So I was pretty much >> You're screwed no matter what. >> I was done. It was I was getting it anyway. >> Oh my gosh. Incredible. [laughter] Incredible. All right. Well, on that note, um let's open it up. That's that's a very good one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um let's open it up to uh audience questions.

>> Hey guys, thanks. Um my name is Co from Alio. Uh you guys come from pretty high performance backgrounds um athletically and I'm kind of curious how do you guys how did you guys cultivate a high performance culture on the business side? I'm particularly interested in how you hired and selected folks. any any attributes or anything that you guys saw as a theme or you're looking for? >> I think for both of us it's somebody who also has their own self-practice. Doesn't have to be our practice or really hard but it's somebody who first would have some capability of also taking care of themselves so that when things get hard um there seems to be a different level of stamina. Our CEO is a 100 mile runner. I mean, we like people

that can handle failure and some stuff that's hard. Like, if you can run 100 miles, you're probably pretty good at >> running 100 miles. [laughter] >> So, that's what this >> and if you have to have a business that has a lot of a long journey, get a guy that can run 100 miles. And I think I mean, we're we're fortunate to be in businesses that are based around kind of health and wellness. So, we pull a group that's interested in in that as well. I think that's a big a big piece of it. We're pulling we're pulling that group and you know and then and then there's nothing like a woman's intuition. Um Gabby's very good at reading people. It takes about two minutes. We can just have a conference and I can go in the back and be like, "Hey, what about this

guy?" And she's like, "Yeah, not this guy or this guy's amazing." So, um there's a couple different things. I think go with instincts and but definitely failure is people that are good at failure are great. Sports is a great place to find people that are good at failure because sports is all about failure. So, >> and we we've worked with a lot of like VC guys or bank guys and they often will hire old athletes because you can give them constructive criticism and and that's I think a really important thing where people are they know that that's just part of the deal. Um, but I will say this, every time we didn't go like we you get into that desperate thing where you're like I need this position filled and maybe you move that way, it always came back to bite us.

>> Desperation is never good. >> Yeah. cuz you're like they're good but and then you're like but we need it and then it always blossomed into the thing. >> To the extent it's different than anything you said before. >> What would your best tips for d-stressing be? >> Uh Larok did a breathing exercise this morning. If anyone's here quite frankly if you can have a longer exhale than inhale and do have a practice two three minutes of that you'll just naturally go into your parasympathetic. You won't have to think about relaxing. So if you inhale, you know, 7 seconds, exhale 9 seconds, maybe take a little pause at the top and bottom, that will organically put you into your parasympathetic. And if you have other

opportunities, uh I know for for us it's to get outside in nature. >> Yeah. >> To get back to connecting to sort of the world that we are in because we are all connected and a part of it. I think that that not only gives us perspective that then will help us manage our stress. >> Yeah. And I would add to that that that anytime you are able to put yourself in a in a position that demands your entire focus, >> the stress is gone. So >> if you're in an ice tub and you're there for a long time, you're not stressed. I can tell you that it leaves you. And I think that when you break that chain, you know, that block chain of stress, when you break that, I think that that

uh that helps. So intense heat, intent I intense ice, intense, you know, uh, thrillseeking type activities, things that I mean, if you have access to that stuff, Gabby's are, you know, Gabby's talking about things that are more immediate for the daily practice to use, but then there's things that you go and you can do situations that that demand your focus to the point where you just the stress just goes away and it and it doesn't necessarily come back uh the same and maybe you have a relationship with that and you can start breaking that. But I I think in intense whether it's long, you know, building up to a long breath hold or like I said, heat, ice, going fast on a mountain bike down a rough trail. I mean, whatever that is will just, you know, kind of kind of shake that shake that uh that

>> Okay, now let's try to keep the thrill seeking behavior to a minimum because we do need the portfolio to actually succeed. And if you guys are all jumping off mountains, I don't know how that's going to work out for us. >> Wear a helmet. That's all. No, but I have a saying. I always tell people I go speed and take chances and you're like, "Oh, that's kind of that's not encouraging." I'm like, "Yeah, but if you're speeding and taking chances, you're probably paying attention. Don't go slow and drive complacently. You'll probably crash or somebody will run into you." So, in a way, I think sometimes those things demand your focus to the point where you're paying attention, right? Instead of just, oh, this is just another day, a drive down the road, I know. And then boom, you hit the guy on the bike because you weren't watching

where you were going. So, that's but that's my that's what I do. So don't listen to me. [laughter] >> It's true. >> But you know, then again, he has had a thousand stitches in the first 16 years of his life. So, you know, take your chances. Thank you again so much for being here. >> Thank you guys. Thanks.