How EIP-6968 will Change Web3 Incentives with Zak Cole

Transcript

foreign [Music] network podcast if you're just joining us we are building a coordination a network Society of thousands of hackers dreamers and doers focusing on using crypto to bring positive some digital systems into the world this podcast features the people who are doing it and is published every Tuesday and Thursday if you want to learn more you can visit our website at greenpill.network where you can download the green pill book for free join the Discord or become a member of your local greenpill.network chapter my guest today is Zach Cole Zach and I have been friends for many years through many Market Cycles in the ethereum ecosystem Zach is a blockchain protocol level engineer defy Enthusiast and angel

investor always fun to talk to protocol level Developers for a smart contract application Level developer like myself um Zach has been a contributor in the ethereum protocol research ecosystem for years and is the co-founder and CTO of slingshot a decentralized Exchange in the ecosystem and he contributes to Kanto which is a defy specific blockchain ecosystem previously he founded a company called white block which specialized in blockchain protocol testing research and development so tldr Zach has been around the block of the ethereum ecosystem pun intended and on the podcast today we're talking about

Kanto and the the mechanism that they're pioneering called contract secured Revenue so contract secured revenue is really interesting because what it does is it takes the block reward fees the sequencer fees and gives them a percentage of them to the developers who have deployed those contracts Zach and I have been working on an EIP standard for contract secured Revenue called eip6968 in which we're trying to get l2s to deploy contract secured Revenue to their Layer Two And so basically the idea here is to allow layer choose to reward the developers who are bringing contracts into their ecosystem and to give public goods Builders people who

are building software development and deploying it to these layer 2 networks to give them an opportunity to earn revenue from their the people who are using their contract so basically the L2 is deploy contract secured Revenue they get a better mouse trap for developers to come contribute to their ecosystem and developers who are deploying contracts are now actually getting revenue from that deployment so basically Zach and I have been nerding out and and working on contracts secured revenue for about three months um me coming from the public goods funding side of things Zach coming from the protocol developer Kanto side of things and we have put together eip6968 which would bring contract secured Revenue to layer choose on the ethereum network and I'm really excited about

that because I think it could create more public goods funding in the ethereum ecosystem but uh just one note before we begin the episode which is that this EIP is only aimed at layer twos so basically the ethereum layer one we want to be as credibly neutral not capturable as possible and so for that reason Zach and I are not advocating that this ever become something that happens on the ethereum layer one it's uh something that is aimed only at layer twos that are trying to bring more developers to their ecosystems so contract secured Revenue could be a really powerful primitive for rewarding developers and for funding public goods and that's why I'm really excited about this episode and I think that you're going to enjoy it too so without further Ado I give you Zach Cole from keto and

we were talking about contract secured Revenue enjoy Athena Dao is addressing the underfunded areas of women's health such as menopause and endometriosis Athena is a Community Driven doubt giving women a say in decision making and funding the scientific breakthroughs that impact their lives with Cutting Edge technology like molecules IP nft framework they invest in research IP that ensures exclusive licensing rights Athena Dow is Raising awareness to women's health research working alongside existing organizations so join Athena Dao today to help change the landscape of women's health research Zach how you doing doing well how are you pretty good thanks really excited to talk about Kanto contract secured Revenue in this EIP that you and I have been working on together so take us down

the rabbit hole what do you what have you been working on uh it's been working on Kanto core development efforts uh which include setting uh kind of like building out the cluster protocol that we're going to use which is essentially going to allow groups of people to coordinate uh work on certain initiatives and then uh after that uh we're going to use that in uh uh to that's going to complement our retroactive funding protocol so most of the stuff we've been working on is essentially like public goods focused so I'm sure we're gonna have a lot of stuff to nerd out about could you uh Kanto pillows real quick so what's the value prop how does it differ from I think most of our listeners are

probably ethereum people uh what is Kento and and what are you doing that's Innovative over there yeah so I Canto is a uh as an evm compatible uh Cosmos app chain uh so it uses tender mint uh consensus but has evm functionality um so that means whatever you can do on ethereum you can also do on Kanto um but we have and the reason we chose Cosmos was because it was a lot easier to bake in certain Primitives into the protocol itself so like uh we have for instance a contract all right um uh Canto lending Market which is like a compound type of lending Market that's

baked into the protocol as well as an amm uh so all of these Financial Primitives are kind of like baked into the protocol itself and the idea was to kind of disincentivide is sort of like you know rent seeking Behavior or value extractive protocols that are launched on top of these chains uh so that kind of accrues value back to the Token itself as well as kind of just like disincentivizes a lot of that value extractive Behavior one of the more Innovative things that we've done is kind of standardized contract secured Revenue so uh which means you know uh we take any uh any 1559 type transaction fees uh like the fee Market

um 20 of that base fee is uh is uh rather than being sent to the zero address uh is distributed to the contract deployers themselves so that's kind of like our way of trying to experiment toward better more protocol based public goods funding got it so what I heard there is that Kanto is a evm chain based in the cosmos ecosystem and it's kind of got enshrined D5 so like uniswap and compound in the ethereum ecosystem are third-party apps built on top of ethereum but in Kanto they're kind of like enshrined in the protocol I guess the blockchain equivalent of like nationalizing things and then that basically reduces the rent seeking Behavior presumed rent seeking behavior that could happen otherwise and

also channelize channels some of those protocol fees a back to public goods in the Kanto ecosystem but B to the contract deployers in the Kanto ecosystem did I play that back correctly yeah yeah definitely yeah that sounds right you and I have been friends for years a couple Market Cycles uh now but the most recent instantiation of our I guess professional relationship is working on EIP 6968 which would bring contract secured Revenue to the ethereum and evm Landscape so we'd love to to to dive in on that that next yeah for sure sure and uh you know real unfortunate that we didn't get that 69.69 uh yeah would have been the best mean number

since EIP 1337. I know I know we gotta I gotta just take that out I guess we I guess we could call it the EIP formerly known as 6969 yeah everyone just refers to it as 69.69 it'll just kind of like catch on well let's make Princeton right he was like the artist formerly known as print right so it could be the EIP formerly known as the ip6969 and the reason we wanted that was because it was a meme number but also contract secured revenue is kind of like a way of giving as you receive like you deploy to a layer two and you receive revenue and you're bringing your deep abstraction to that layer too so uh man that it would have been beautiful it would have been

perfect well uh Beyond [ __ ] posting about the meme number uh maybe we could talk about why contract secured revenue is a powerful incentive alignment tool and the public goods funding tool yeah for sure so I mean uh uh it kind of like reduces a lot of the overhead required of development teams to kind of establish our own business models or come up with some sort of like more advanced Primitives that are used to kind of uh monetize um if you launch a contract that's used and consumes gas I mean um you can be subsidized essentially by that gas and uh that kind of uh that creates a lot better A much a much

healthier dynamic between developers and uh like the networks that they're building on top of so basically if I were to play a public good for the ecosystem was called safe math uh onto a layer two and I'm the deployer address under contracts secured Revenue I would get a percentage of the gas that is called every time that contract is called and so you can have these money Legos that use several different public goods let's call it safe math that's all open Zeppelin erc20 Soul um and basically all the people who developed and deployed those standards are going to earn Revenue every time there is gas consumed on on their contract so it's basically a way if

you've developed a public good or like a money Lego to get those sequencer fees without having to go through the whole like app chain thesis of like I'm going to deploy my own blockchain in order to get the sequencer fees kind of thing right yeah and also in addition to that it kind of like eliminates a lot of these Central entities that control uh treasuries essentially uh so I I know that a lot of people are like oh well CSR has been done on this chain or that chain in this way but most of the time what happens is that those networks are collecting those fees which are stored in some sort of multi-sig or controlled by some particular Foundation to be distributed at the discretion of those

uh of like a dow or a foundation or some some third part so what this does is it automates the distribution of sun governance yeah I like that there's no there's no like party leader that I need to go like suckle at the teeth of and kiss their ass to get the contract secured revenue is just deploy a public good and get people to legitimately decide that yours is the real one and therefore you get revenue for doing it yep there you go it's pretty simple cut and dry it eliminates a lot of those middlemen that you know a lot of the systems we've built it's been blockchain I think are kind of like geared toward eliminating any sort of intermediary so this just takes this just gets rid of an

additional intermediary yeah and I and I like that it doesn't have intermediaries I like that it funds public goods um are there any drawbacks like I think will be posted on The ethereum Magicians forum and people were like people are just going to write gas and efficient contracts in order to get the contract secured Revenue um are there any other sort of like criticisms and what do you think could you enumerate the criticisms and and say how you think their value I guess like valid or not I think a lot of the criticisms that we've seen so far kind of stem from a misunderstanding of the mechanism itself as opposed to actual economic um vulnerabilities like riding a gas inefficient contract um is going to disincentivize your users from from like using that contract and

it's also going to incentivize other people to take the functionality of that contract and write something that's more gas efficient because it provides a better user experience so you're going to drive away users if you have if you present something that's gas inefficient so I don't think that that's like a super um valid argument against it necessarily I mean while it I don't and I don't think it I don't think it works that way in in a free market and then uh and then another criticism was like how you could uh build out something that um would drain funds or something I can't remember what this guy said it was like you would have to send a lot of uh like you can't really game it some people say that you could game it and

the way that you would game it is by sending it a lot of gas like I mean a lot of uh transactions but that doesn't make sense because you were you would be paying yourself essentially and then you wouldn't be making a haircut on whatever you're sending to it so I don't think that those are real valid arguments necessarily um you know we could pull up this thread so the youth magician's threat is where we announced it and there was a lot of really great feedback on there the one that I will highlight is that I think that people were concerned that uh this is this is a mechanism that is aimed at the ethereum layer one and I think that uh right now the goal is just to get layer twos to start deploying

this and there's no intention for it to go on the layer one I think that if it were to go on the layer one it kind of gets into block block rewards funding territory but uh as a way of attracting users to your L2 developers to your L2 contract secured revenue is uh is sort of an experiment with with that first yeah I'm looking at this at this thread yeah it seems like most people have kind of like come back to a lot of those arguments as well but yeah yeah definitely um we're not trying to Target uh like ethereum may not to integrate or like Implement CSR it's just kind of like an L2 and another thing to mention is that the protocol we're proposing just uh allow was for like an arbitrary uh like the fee to be arbitrary

essentially so you could say 30 is going to go towards CSR or 40 or 10 or 100 that's really at the aggression of the L2 and I think that Apple creates a pretty cool dynamic between l2s it's kind of like a game of public goods essentially to attract developers and retain them so if like arbitrum for instance says all right we're gonna we're gonna do 30 we're gonna subsidize 30 of all the gas these uh and return those to the developers uh right now it's it's worth stating the counter factual there I think that arbitrum is taking all the sequencer fees and putting them into the Dow right right right so there's like kind of like a bureaucratic governance process to redistribute that to the community if 30

of them just went to the contract developers be much more simplistic way of Distributing money to the people who are bringing public goods to which is filling up block space to the arbitrary Network and it's not just public goods it's just it's just it's just applications uh like you have an application that's popular you're incentivized to deploy it on a Network that has CSR because you're going to make more money so assuming that there's a lot of value and people are actually using your product I mean that's just like it's it that's just one less thing to worry about um while it's not likely going to be massive enough to just completely uh fund your entire project I mean it then it could be enough to like you know move the needle at least so um I want to read out a comment from the youth magician's

thread and just get your reaction to it um one of the criticisms which I think is kind of an interesting one comes from wjm elements if you're out there listening thank you for this comment wjm elements and they state if I deploy a copy pasta uniswap V2 clone on your side chain am I a quote-unquote contract developer if I develop a open Zeppelin [ __ ] coin can open Zeppelin possibly earn money contracted players are not necessarily developers and sometimes represent a tiny majority of value added in this space so I'm wondering if there's some sort sort of like legitimacy game where the original developer that built these coins like people will only call the safemath.soul of the author of safe math because that's the one that has legitimacy has

to oppose like as opposed to like a vampire attack or like a copy pasta one like I'd be really curious to see if the right people are getting the revenue or if people will just pull down all the open zappen libraries and deploy them with every chain hoping that people they're just fishing for contract security revenue on that chain uh yeah that's a fair point I mean I don't see why I mean there's no way that we could actually algorithmically enforce any of that at the protocol level well if you if you for example with open source code right yeah yeah exactly so like but also if you if you Fork something and deploy it I mean think about sushi right like it doesn't like well if people use it they're gonna use it if they don't they're not going to use it so it's a

legitimacy game it's a social layer legitimacy game there's a million unib too like you know at pancake swap was one of them I mean some of them are successful but there's like like two forks of beauty saw maybe there's like a few that are successful but none of them are as successful as uni swap so I don't think that that is something that we should really concern ourselves with when we're talking about developing protocols that fund public goods I mean most of these people that deploy things uh that are Forks are kind of just like grifters that come and go anyway uh we can't really like programmatically eliminate them from the network I mean we could try to disincentivize them but I don't know that's not really the intent of this protocol well I'm I'm less interested in like the uniswap

forks that are deployed here and I'm more interested in the shed that doesn't have Revenue uh flowing into it like pool together or like a governance token or you know like you know quadratic funding schemes there are no protocol fees in them and so the fact that the developers can actually earn some revenue from deploying their contracts on a CSR chain opens up a whole bunch of business models that are sort of related to like you know how pool together takes the yield on the tokens that you've pulled together and creates a lot a lot no loss Lottery based off of that you could kind of do that now with any contract um that's generating Revenue Channel those revenue is in a New Direction um and I think that like what's really elegant to me about this and why you know obviously like I'm kind of stepping

out of the host chair and like kind of like as the EIP co-author really excited about it is that right now everyone's following the app chain thesis and is going out and just deploying their own l2s in order to get sequencer fees and it's a lot of [ __ ] infrastructure and headaches and in order to run your own L2 and bridges and everything wouldn't it be better if you could just get revenue for the contracts that you Deploy on other people's networks instead of having to have like every single blockchain d-app have have its own network the app chain thesis this kind of collapses the need for the app chain thesis and to just you deploy a contract and you get sequencer fees for it which I think is really a high Roi thing you're reducing the amount of investment that you need to have in

order to get sequence or fees and um and making it way easier for people yeah that's a third point also it kind of like disincentivizes like liquidity fragmentation essentially because you brought up a good point like if I'm spinning up an L2 or some sort of a side chain I mean we still need to like bridge that stuff back and forth that creates a lot of uh technical overhead and introduces unnecessary risk um so I think like keeping everything kind of like contained within these like fuel twos that are interoperable is probably going to be a lot easier and safer Yeah well yeah at least until cross L2 liquidity is solid which I think there's a bunch of Giga brains working on that but yeah I mean people's

been working on that for for a while but you know I don't know if that's I don't know something sharding yeah super chain yeah eventually yeah uh but between now and then we're still we're still going to have to deal with the whole concept of like fragmentation of liquidity and all of the pain points that that presents yeah totally well what what else is there to say uh about contracts secured Revenue what didn't I ask about it that you want to talk about uh so there's some interesting interesting like perspectives as well like uh in the model that we Implement on Kanto uh your CSR position as a deployer when you opt in oh and but I guess another thing to uh mention before that is that CSR is

entirely opted it's like two lines of code you just need to register your contract as you deploy with this uh Turn Style that's what we call it and then that allows you to collect those fees uh the fees are collected um that position is represented as an nft so uh I own an nft that represents the CSR for the contract that I've deployed that creates a whole new level of like composability so now we can have things like on cancel like CSR now for example where you can like donate your CFR to a dow which can then uh kind of take place of like a grant system for example and uh kind of interesting I don't know if it like maybe reinvents

the wheel as it now being distributed back to a centralized Dow but uh it still that's why we have quadratic funding you just put in academic quadratic Bundy yeah oh I think that that is pretty cool and I think it's all working together toward something more uh Equitable and something more uh practical in regard to like quadratic funding yeah it's interesting the fact that it could be represented as an nft kind of reminds me of like in uniswap uh I figure it was B2 you kind of your LP positioned as an nft and transferred around yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah your your LP position yeah that kind of wrecked some people because they didn't understand that their the nft actually

represented their LP you remember that and some guy sold this oh really I didn't know that you know hopefully they sold it for above what the position was worth it I won't hold my breaths yeah yeah yeah but uh that's pretty pretty interesting and then uh some other functionality that we added um that was in uh in the in the specification was actually um uh rather than like the deployer receiving all of it for every uh contract within that chain of calls uh like the nested functions essentially um uh each one of those contracts that's called receives a proportional distribution of the gas

that's consumed so long as they opt in so it's not just like if I set up a proxy for example that just uh people call and that calls like a chain one portable or something triggerable um I'm not just gonna be a vampire attacking all of these other contracts uh it's actually going to be distributed to each one that uh takes place yeah that receives like a call in that chain so that's so cool you're saying so if I develop a system called Foo let's just call it Fubar and it uses safe math and er opens up in erc20 and so so basically the proportional amount of gas consumed by safe math or erc20 are going to go back to the people who developed and

deployed those contracts it's not just a hundred percent to the person who makes the highest level contract there okay the long so long as those contracts fit into CSR and then there is some debate right now like where still working out the spec right I mean it's live on GitHub anybody can contribute we're still trying to like work our way through the logic of this it's like what is this version going to be like if they don't opt in does the next caller does the next contract get it or does that root contract receive all of the CSR or is the gas just burnt so that's something that we kind of need to like figure out and model as well like do we just burn it if they don't opt in in

that chain or does the next does like that that root that Ace caller receive receive you almost need like persufficiently used L2 let's call it arbitrum or optimism or something like that all the contracts that are already deployed on there you'd almost need to wait a grandfather in the contractors that are yeah so that would be like a retroactive opt-in that's something else that we would want to think about as well and that depends entirely on how we implement it because we're still working on approval concept that's going to be generalized for uh implementation on all these l2s so uh that's like another thing we need to like consider is it

going to be retroactive or are systems going to have to redeploy entirely if they have to redeploy entirely that might present too much risk and Tech debt um to like opt in so I think it's kind of important that we come up with some sort of mechanism by which these new contracts can just uh retroactively uh register for CSR I'm not entirely sure how that's going to look that yet though so so it seems like the EIP has been announced it's been I think merged into the EIP repo yeah and and so now there's a working group that people can go to in order to work out these issues and so if you're

implemented if you're a researcher who's interested in implementing EMP 6968 um or if you're someone who's interested in deploying it on your L2 you can go to this working group at bitly eip6968 and that's just a telegram group where people are working on eip6968 contract secured Revenue uh on ethereum what are the ways that people can can get involved in this other than that telegram group yeah so I think like checking out the youth magicians thread and taking part in the conversation there as well as the GitHub uh would be good places to start I think primarily what we're gonna do is like Converse Converse mostly around that telegram

group and then we'll likely start some sort of bi-weekly Cadence uh where we have a call to discuss it and work on the proof of concept uh get feedback from every everybody um and kind of like put this into uh like into like codify it well I am looking forward to uh getting to a place in which l2s are deploying this as a way of creating a gravity well that attracts more developers and liquidity of contracts to their networks which attracts more developers and so I'm interested to see the arms race that that could be kicked off here between l2s that want to attract developers to their ecosystems and ccsr as a as an edge for doing it so I'm here for it

yeah I think that's going to be a pretty cool game to see between these all twos that are all trying to like kind of compete for attention and developer participation yeah yeah and uh you know if the net result is more funding going to the developers hopefully that means that we've got more interesting things that are coming and using those emissions to build public goods to build to build contracts for it so I'm curious to see how the experiment will go I'm wondering if there's any like Alpha that you can leak about so contract secured revenue is is something that's already live in the Kanto ecosystem have you seen any sort of of interesting uses of it or commentary on it from the Kanto ecosystem where I think it's already live yeah it's live it's been live

um yeah so like some of this stuff is just like experimenting with CSR and how we can kind of like make it better I think one of the things that we've been kind of struggling with is like how can we reach this like equilibrium by which it's like profitable not just like making a few dollars like we need uh some sort of applications I like get a lot more volume so I think it'd be interesting to see on something like polygon or arbitrum or optimism that has a large amount of volume where we could see how it works with like uniswap for example I'd really like to see how much they can bring in like what sort of Revenue yeah we'll be able to generate themselves that's an interesting point it kind of reminds me of back when Bitcoin was getting started uh vitalik

coin this idea of the quadratic freelancer which was someone who just works for the public good subsidized by quadratic funding and so like I think Austin Griffith was the first to example of this where he made like 20 or 25k per quarter off of Bitcoin grants which is like you know you're making a six-figure salary uh at that point and you know big quadratic freelancer threshold is basically the threshold where like I can quit my job and I can work for the public good and so I think there's a similar sort of element with really any anything that could fund developers but um you know the cut the CSR uh freelancer where you're basically going out and developing contracts and deploying them to networks and just living off of that when this gets to a certain volume that it can support

people full-time quitting their jobs uh I think then you're getting into really interesting territory yeah I'd be really interested in like simulating some of this as well like building out some of these economic simulations to identify kind of what what conditions are required in order to like reach that threshold um so that might be something interesting that we can work on in the like within the working group as well I really think that this could be a really cool model that would kind of implement something like a like Universal basic income for developers on all of these chains just kind of what made me want to do it uh coming from like working on East 2 and working with the F like as a core developer it was like not super

sustainable in regard to like income like you know not exactly glorious work it's a lot of work I know that like you know trans and those guys started like the protocol kill Guild but um that's still depending on like like handouts essentially like donations like it's non-profit essentially yeah which is great I think it's a great step a step in a great Direction but how sustainable is that if you have to continually just rely on on donations so this is actually it brings me to a a thought that that I've been having that I've been I've had for years and I haven't seen it come to fruition until now and that's that um public goods are good in these ecosystems we want to

incentivize public goods because that creates a better ecosystem and public goods uh in the form of block rewards are paid to the miners to secure the network right that's why we have inflation rewards on the blockchain network um and the reason why something like paying the protocol developers through the protocol doesn't work is that you can't cryptographically prove that the software that you wrote has has value right so the block reward only goes to people who cryptographically have proven that they've provided the next block enough hash power and proof of work or enough stake and proof of stake in order to secure the public goods of the of the network and so there's this trade-off between like how much value is created by the public good and how cryptographically verifiable is the

value that you brought to the ecosystem and like software development is [ __ ] tough because the code I wrote this morning I don't know if it's going to be deployed if it's deployed or the customer is going to give a [ __ ] and even if the customers give a [ __ ] like you know uh there's how much value did it create and one of the things things that I think is really extremely elegant about CSR is that there's cryptographic proof that you're the one who deployed the contract and that you consumed x amount of gas and therefore you're entitled to Y amount of the sequencer fees and so what we're doing here in a very like important way I want to pinch and zoom in this one point is that where public bids are good but the reason why we can't um we can't reward them is that there's

not a good uncapturable way of of expanding the aperture of which public goods that we fund Beyond like block producers and this is kind of like creating a wedge where people who create contracts and are able to bring usage to that contract it's all provable and it's in its way of funding public goods on an in an ecosystem um that's not not just block rewards funding so just that that very small advancement in rewarding other different types of public goods without relying on donations is where I get really excited because um you know if you can do that in a non-capturable way that's significant amount of Revenue then holy [ __ ] you've just changed the incentives of the entire ecosystem so that's where I get pretty excited it's like what's next

after contracts secured Revenue with respect to funding public goods in these ecosystems yeah absolutely I think like retroactive funding um I mean I know that's stuff that you guys are well aware of and everything's working or we're all working toward but I think retroactive funding might be like the next kind of puzzle piece in that but and that's stuff that we're building out on Kanto and experimenting with right now so I think hopefully what we can do is kind of launch a bunch of these Financial Primitives that are public good focused on Kanto with a live Network see what happens and if it and since it's all open source and the protocols were we're building we're building in public uh I think anybody can adopt those and build on them and expand as necessary to meet their needs

which is a CSR is a good example of we kind of like put our money where our mouth is and launched it on Kanto and seemed to work out and now let's try to scale that and see what's next one of the things that's really exciting to me is that like I I feel like there's for too long been like a social goods argument for supporting public goods like an altruism a lefty bleeding heart kind of thing to it but like when you when you look at the capitalistic game that these I'll choose and these ecosystems are playing against each other the ones that coordinate their ecosystem public goods better are gonna [ __ ] win you know like yeah there's a really good reason and then and then once you believe that you can put marketing budget towards doing quadratic funding or retracted public goods

funding or contract secured revenue and the only limit is how much money do you have um and also how legitimately can you distribute that money at scale and so um bootstrapping an ecosystem of public goods funding mechanisms by leveraging that that malarkian competitive Dynamic I think is a way in which we're going to see a thousand experiments blossom in public goods funding and it's that capitalistic incentive is just like a thousand times more powerful I think than like the bleeding hearts appealing to people's emotions for donations kind of thing that has been done for centuries uh when it comes to creating social goods yeah I totally agree that's what I was kind of getting out with the whole protocol Guild and all the all like all the other grants programs and

we've tried it over and over again for the past few years and like there have been some pretty good probably like Mohawk dial like you know I was like one of the first member I helped launch Mohawk as well like but at the end of the day it was just it's just donation based that's really all it is it's like a non-profit so how can we do something that's better than that that doesn't require like Goodwill or essentially yeah well the way I see it is that we need um fundraising mechanisms and then we need funding distribution mechanisms and there's an impedance bashing between the ability to raise more money and the ability to distribute more money and they have to grow and lockstep with each other and so I'm excited on the funding mechanisms to move Beyond donations into things like nft you know like we saw we

sold nude shot bots and raised three million dollars for the Bitcoin grants matching pool by just giving people an nft in exchange for Their donation um but like sequencer fees on optimism going into retroactive public goods funding those are the innovations that I see on the fundraising side and then the distribution side you've got retroactive public goods funding and self-curating Registries on protocol Guild and quadratic funding and so like those two things growing together I think are gonna allow us in the next cycle hopefully to fund their public goods in a more legitimate way yeah there's also going to be a lot of fun D gen games too I think that it could create some pretty cool token standards based around CSR as well yeah could you say more about that um well like if you distributed the

proceeds of like a token to the Token holders for CSR then uh that's kind of like this weird flywheel I don't know exactly I don't really want to like spell out how to build stuff like that but I think like kind of looking into those Dynamics could be pretty interesting and potentially lucrative but so you're saying like creating a reflexive cycle where like you deploy a [ __ ] coin or like a token and when you do that you get an nft which is where the CSR goes to and then you put that token inside of the treasury so that the more people do whatever with the token yeah the Dow gets and it creates this sort of like gravity well I've been

trying to be growing yeah yeah and that can just be distributed back to token holders automatically like on a proportional basis or it can just go into this treasury where the token holders vote I don't know you could put it anywhere I mean you could create a pull together type system where like the lossless Lottery goes goes bigger the more people yeah uh do whatever yeah yeah so I mean while that's not like public goods focused at all really I mean uh that's still something that's kind of interesting to see uh nobody's really done anything like that yet on Kanto um but I'm sure somebody will figure out and try to do something similar to that at some point I mean just imagine like

Pepe the Pepe pump that just happened recently what if they had some sort of CSR implemented they would have made even more money I don't know like who knows what would happen I don't really want to like give out to I don't really want to talk too much about that kind of stuff but like I think it would be pretty interesting to see well you know one of the things I think is interesting about these ecosystems is how sometimes the dgen stuff can be used to fund the regen stuff you know for example metallic booterin's divination of a bunch of sheep to the coveted India relief basically saved lives and so you know what's the way we we can connect these things or at least give people the tools to connect these things if they want to yeah yeah for sure I think it's I mean

it's a pre-market so yeah let's give people tools to build uh I would be interested in thinking about how would you be able to just create based on CSR like how would you be able to create more regenerative economics as well like what a portion of the CSR you could go to like what contribute to like Bitcoin or something else like that or even protocol Guild that would be really interesting too yeah I mean you could you could fractionalize the nft and give 25 to retroactive public goods 25 to get coin 25 to protocol Guild and then um you know I think that it's sort of interesting at that point yeah there's probably a lot of cool tooling built around that so yeah I'm pretty interested in seeing how this uh plays out and uh yeah thanks for co-authoring

that that was pretty cool I mean you kind of like took the lead on it you're like hey 6969 is available let's do it yeah yeah well we almost got 69.69 um apparently apparently we camped on the EIP number a little bit too much for the VIP editors but uh you know we can always meme it as the EIP formerly known as 6969 and yeah I do think I do think the metaphor of like the give as you receive VIP is like yeah I know it's great it makes so much sense it is a [ __ ] post but it like it matches the mechanism pretty well so um the first thing makes the world going on man absolutely you know the economy is based on so so I tried to get uh

eop1337 which is the lead standard and then uh I've done a couple other eips that were meant around like so 6969 what's the next EIP meme number that we should try to snatch like emp420 69 and but that's not gonna be for another years well I don't know man there's a lot of innovation going on we might be able to get it yes all right if you're listening to us don't compete with us for the next EOP meme number um yeah we're gonna be like we'll be old by then way older yeah but the public good funding mechanisms that we build in the meantime will live forever on chain so oh is there anything I didn't ask that you want to say uh no I don't think so I think you covered it all uh people can join us in the working group telegram uh

contribute to the uh each magicians post um hit it up on GitHub and uh yeah I guess you can follow me on Twitter as well and at Xerox Zach Zak and uh let's build some stuff let's build some stuff so you can follow Zach on Twitter at Xerox Zach uh in the show notes there's a link to the youth magicians Thread about eip6968 and then you can go to bit.ly eip6968 in order to get involved in the working group Zach great to catch up with you thanks so much for coming on the Pod and looking forward to funding more public goods together yeah thank you very much for having me have a good day thank you peace and love thank you

[Music] all right you just heard from Zach Cole I'm really excited about the work that Zach is doing on eip6968 and contract secured Revenue as a way of funding public goods I hope you enjoyed this episode thank you so much for listening to thegreenpill.network podcast again we are building a podcast that features the people who are building a coordination a network Society of thousands of hackers dreamers and doers we're focused on using crypto to bring positive some digital systems to the world like Zach Cole people innovating on things like contract secured revenue and if you value our work if you value this podcast

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