How DC Went All-In On Stablecoins (And Why $10T Is Coming) with Cody Carbone

Transcript

Right now, banks, crypto exchanges, they have to file a suspicious activity report for almost everything. They have to file thousands and thousands of that. If you go talk to the regulators who are supposed to follow these reports, they have a log that is hundreds of pages deep that they are not getting to. When it comes to this uh 24/7 trading to stable coin settlement for certain [music] derivatives markets, what what needs to happen in DC for that to happen? Do you think we're going to end up seeing Republicans continue to to to preach this message and potentially see Democrats flip into pro- crypto in order to win over more of their constituents?

Can they win an election that way? >> Welcome back to the RUP. This is your home to learn from the biggest guests, the brightest minds at the tip of innovation. >> Our goal is to help spread the collective knowledge of everyone in our community. >> We are breaking crypto out of its echo chamber and taking it to the real world. Sit back, relax, and enjoy it. [music] >> You're watching episode 9 of Stabled Up, our weekly stable coin show covering the future of the digital dollar. Of course, powered by our friends at Frack with FRXUSD, one of the most battle tested stable coins in all of crypto, as well

as upcoming Fracks Net. Guys, we're here with Cody Carbone, the CEO of the digital chamber in DC, a friend of the show now knowing that he is close with Perryanne Boring, who is basically the reason why Rob and I started to do this kind of crypto education work back at the University of Florida. >> She may not even realize it, but she was instrumental in helping the Gator Blockchain Club, which is where Andy and I met, just two enthusiastic guys looking to learn more about the space. Uh, and then she invited us up to DC for the DC blockchain summit in 2018. >> Middle of the bare market. >> The club had literally gone from like five dudes to like a hundred people. Len room. It was full up. And then by May 2018, it was back down to five of them.

>> Well, we share that then because Marian is the one who got me into blockchain. She picked me out of Tradfi. I was working in DC, came from Capitol Hill, went to Ernston Young. She grabbed me out of the Trady world, got me into this space. I owe her everything as well. What what was the story that she told you to bring bring you over and show you the light? Like what what were some of the early days back in 2018? Because I remember like the feeling in the room. It was like, "Wow, people are actually taking this seriously." But it really feels like that the the room we were in in 2018 at the digital chamber was where this entire industry kind of grew out of had an institutional level. How did she bring you over from Ernston Young? I was coming from that very DC centric

background. I was working on Capitol Hill previously and it was right in 2019 when Facebook was launching their stable coin at the time of course DM and she came to me and I was watching these hearings in house financial services and she was like this is real this is now meeting the moment that we're talking about this in DC she had already been advocating for five years at that point and she said this is time this is the future of finance I just remember sitting there I'm like all right what are we talking about then it took some time for me to get there to be a believer covid hit I got interested in investing. I started looking at Bitcoin.

I started looking at Ethereum and Salana and I was like, "All right, where is this going?" I started reading books and I remember the initial conversation with Perryanne. I was like, "All right, I see this is the future now." >> Yeah. >> But it was it was that moment coming to me when I saw that Washington was meeting digital assets for the first time and at that point no one knew anything except Perryanne. >> Yeah. >> And then I I I followed here I am. >> Yeah. I and and I think as of now people are attributing a lot of the the uh reason as to why we have the Genius Act and why this space has grown so much to Trump the administration and that's there there's no doubt that has been impactful but there was a lot of leg work that was done between that 2018

blockchain DC blockchain conference that we were all at to now right seven years later we have the genius act right 2025 tell us a little bit about what happened in the postcoavid 2020 21 to 2024 era, like Gendzer was in office, Biden was in office. There was still things happening behind the scenes, but it was almost like hush hush. Like, you couldn't really come out and really be be full trailblazers until 2024 five when Trump got elected and ultimately kind of opened the Overton window to make it okay to talk about things. What What was part of the reason why we have Genius Act? happened in that era, that 2020 to 2024 era to ultimately get where we are today.

>> A lot of doors shut in our face. Yeah. >> There is this perception that this is an overnight success, >> right? Trump came in in January and the Congress came in in January and all of a sudden they were going to be pro crypto. >> We were spending days, hours on Capitol Hill knocking on doors just trying to educate. Yeah. >> For so long we were just an education organization. >> We wanted to find one to two champions. That was the goal. And we started to get that. We started to get Jared Polus who's now the governor of Colorado and then it was Tom Ember and then it was Kirsten Gillibrand and it was Cynthia Lumis, right? We just started to add to this roster of champions over time thinking that one day there will be this galvanizing moment where we have leadership at the top in the Oval Office

who will be pro- crypto. We'll have a majority of pro- crypto champions in both the House and Senate and we can actually enact real policy change. So those years were just trying to find one to two. We always say if we can get to 10 champions, we'll be in a good spot. If we can get one bill introduced to just start the dialogue, I have no expectations that it'll pass. But if we can just get it introduced where it's like, okay, there's there's digital asset work here. Then the last Congress, it started with let's have a digital asset subcommittee in House Financial Services. We'll get bills introduced. We get bills to pass one house. So we started to make progress slowly knowing that enactment was unlikely because we didn't have leadership at the top. The Biden administration didn't like this.

We didn't think they would sign a bill into law, but we knew one day there would be a moment. And so as we were adding champion after championing from 2018, 2019, 2020 at one to two became 10 to became 20 to becoming, you know, over a hundred members of Congress, almost two over 200 members of Congress supporting the Genius Act in the House. 68 senators, both Republican and Democrats, supporting the Genius Act in the Senate. Now we're at this moment. It's like, okay, we have a majority of Congress. Crypto has had its day now, and now we have to execute and continue to push things forward. >> Yeah. And you guys are doing just that with this streamline act that you've recently been uh you know pioneering for AML in crypto as a whole. Crypto has been known from the outsiders as it's it's anonymous. There's this thing that

it's it's crypto's anonymous which is so far from the truth because if now you know if you have any inkling you can go and see everyone's addresses on most big chains except for some of the private ones. Obviously it is you know numbers and letters. You can't really attribute an actual name to it or an identity to it, but but cryp the furthest thing from anonymous yet that is kind of like the current I don't know idea in in the outsers heads. Talk to us about the streamline act, what this uh means for stable coin regulation, what this means for crypto as a whole and why this is important for you guys.

>> Streamline act is an incredibly important bill. Right now uh most of the KYC know your customer rules are from the bank secrecy act of 1970. They don't make sense. They're very antiquated. You're right. There's a ton of misconceptions about the anonymity of digital assets and the blockchain. If you are buying your assets like my mom or dad on Coinbase or Kraken or Crypto.com, you are probably KYC. You want to put your driver's license there. >> You ask a law enforcement official if they like when people trade or if there's elicit transactions in digital assets versus cash. 100% they'll prefer if it's done on the blockchain because they can see it and they can find those people. But if I was going to give you $500 right now or give $500 to of cash to a terrorist group, they're never

finding that. >> They love it. So what the Streamline Act is trying to do is to modernize the bank secrecy act secrecy act compliance regime to fit where we are in this new innovative cycle. Right now banks, crypto exchanges, they have to file a suspicious activity report for almost everything. >> Yeah. >> They have to file thousands and thousands of them. If you go talk to the regulators who are supposed to follow these reports, they have a log that is hundreds of pages deep that they are not getting to. Those reports are not cheap for the banks or the exchanges to file.

They cost thousands of dollars per report. If you want to be a legitimate player in the digital asset space right now and you want people to trade using your platform, you have to have a compliance team that is costing upwards of a million dollars. That's for the smallest exchange. How does innovation grow when the entrance to the market costs a million dollars? Insane. The streamline act will remove a lot of those necessary unnecessary requirements that the bank secrecy act 1970 comply uh that put into place. The bank secrecy act of 1970 said any transaction over $10,000 needs to reported to the regulators. $10,000 >> that bought you a house that bought you a house back then, >> right?

>> $10,000 right now is is nothing to a lot of people. And so it's crazy that we're still going past this regime about 50 years ago. We have to modernize it. Streamline act needs to pass. We're very supportive of that because I think stable coins only work if you can have new entrance to the market to innovate and to compete. >> Tell us about what the perception of stable coins, how it's evolved because you were around before stable coins were a thing and before the Genius Act existed. And so you saw it from the beginning of its life cycle to ultimately becoming enacted. How did the perception change? Now people, Secretary Besson's talking about $3.7 trillion of stable coins by 2028. We think that we'll get to double digit trillions by 2030.

This is where we're headed and this was totally unfathomable a few years ago. Talk to us about why not only is it fathomable today, but it's actually becoming expected and and it has the majority support of people in DC. So, stable coins started as a very theoretical concept to people in DC. They thought it was just a crypto asset. They thought it was volatile like uh like Bitcoin or Ethereum. And so, a lot of members just associated with, oh, it's just another crypto asset. So, that's how we're going to treat it. Then they started to understand, okay, this is tied to the dollar. That's interesting. Like, this could lead to dollar growth. Aerol Luna didn't help.

>> I heard the mix stable coin. That is what most people thought a stable coin was algorithmic stable coin what it was for a few years. But the growth of the dollar and the purchase of US treasuries and the growth of companies like Circle and Tether globally that was really interesting to a lot of lawmakers. They didn't know how to regulate it yet. They didn't know exactly what the use case was yet. And there started to be more use of US dollar backstable coins in other jurisdictions around the world. That was really exciting. There was these countries like Argentina or Brazil or Turkey or Indonesia that didn't have any way to access the US dollar, but they were able to do so now through a US dollar max stable coin. And they were using it as an inflation hedge. They

were using it as a store of value. They were using it for payments. The US government when Trump came in and best to your point saw that US dollar treasuries were being bought by these stable coin companies around the world and the US dollar was being used as the primary for primary form of payments and transaction in these jurisdictions where they thought were how could we can never reach them right >> that was very exciting for them because that is how you can expand the strength of the dollar around the globe >> especially when you have competition for China and the bricks coalition of China getting close to Russia they're trying to have an alternative currency to US dollar. That's when it when it beca the narrative became less about just remittances.

We always go in and we talk to lawmakers about well it's really great if you have an immigrant population in your district they can send money back instead of going to Western Union. Western Union's taking 9% off the top takes three to five days to get there. They're sending money now through USDC. That's much more exciting to them. >> Right. when it became about dollar growth of course boosting the US dollar all of a sudden and it wasn't just about remittances or use cases here and here how this could be used for quicker more efficient payments that is when every one of the administration and everyone in Congress woke up okay this is a way we can now compete this is now about it's not just about technology it's about economic security it's about national security it's about economic prosperity it's changed the entire shift

and all of a sudden it became stable coins are something we must lead on. We need to have the dollar be the reserve currency of the world in every jurisdiction. The best way to do that and the best way to buy more short-term US treasuries is through stable coin pump uh companies. Tether is one of the largest purchasers of US treasuries in the entire world. More than most nations now. >> Yeah. Just behind Brazil, number 17 in the entire world. >> It's insane. And so once it became about economic security, all of a sudden the light bulb went off across everyone's Yeah. uh in DC's you know in um head that's when it became very bullish and the White House started saying okay this is priority number one out of the gate Senate banking house financial services

you're going to tackle stable coins we have to strengthen the dollar the white house was there every single day as a uh as the negotiations of the genius act picked up and we have to pass this bill now and that's what they did and now we're in the implementation phase >> we've got 18 months from enactment back in July where we can finally start to implement this and rulemaking things will come out and hopefully, you know, 14 months from now, whatever it is, we will start to have Genius Act compliant stable coin issuers and stable coins will continue to prolate and grow to those trillion dollar numbers that we expect. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, I think it's so incredible how the industry had such a negative perception following FTX, following Luna, and stable coins single-handedly took the perception for the outsiders, for the legislators, for

the institutions, and completely flipped it forward. For the legislators, it was about extending the US dollar's hedgeimonyy, the dominance. For the institutions, it was about the yield, the amount of money that Tether is making on a yearly basis. just about this idea of better uh a better financial system and it completely took like now it feels like back in 2018 there was like bitcoin not blockchain or blockchain not bitcoin now it feels like there's like stable coins not crypto happening it's almost like another like split happening here >> um and I'm going to put you on the spot about this market structure bill >> but my goodness we are ready for the market structure bill aren't we guys >> any intel that you can share about your optimism or pessimism about the timing

about the implementation details. Where are we at with the market structure bill for for crypto? >> Well, I'm an internal op optimist uh that I'll probably get some eye rolls from the the listeners uh the viewers. Uh I am optimistic we'll get a market structure bill done this Congress. Now that has already gone from summer to this year. >> Uh it's going to be really tough. The government now is at the longest shutdown in history. >> There is no sense of when the government will open back up. that definitely impacts market structure negotiations. It is not priority number one for a lot of these lawmakers right now, but there is progress still and there are conversations that are happening. Senate banking uh Republicans released a draft a few months ago. They are now

negotiating with Senate Banking Democrats. Okay, that's a good spot to be in. Senate A is going to release a draft hopefully any day now. DC famously misses deadlines. They were supposed to release their draft on Halloween. Halloween has passed. There's no draft yet. We're hoping it's this week and next week. >> The Senate took a a different approach. We passed the bill out of the House overwhelmingly bipartisan support. That's great. That's a massive win. The Senate didn't want to take that bill up. Wants to do its own thing. The House was working together efficiently on this bill. So, you had House Financial Services and House A, the two committees of jurisdiction over this this text working together on one product. In the Senate, I just mentioned there's two competing efforts. So, Senate Banking is

doing their own thing. Senate is doing their own thing. We have a lot of steps that need to happen before this bill can get across the finish line. The two committees are going to have to come together and put one bill together. So, that'll be one thing. They then have to send it back to the House because it's a different bill than what the House passed. The House then has to pass that bill and they have to reconcile to make it one bill. And then they both have to pass it and send it to the president's desk. >> That is a lot. >> Yeah, that is >> that is a lot. >> And when does this Congress end? >> Uh, next December 31st. So, December 31st, 2026. But 2026 is an election year, >> right?

>> When it's an election year, members in Congress don't like to spend time in DC. They want to spend time at home. They want to campaign. Politics becomes the number one issue. Politics drives policy. >> Usually, it's not the other way around. And if politics comes into play here, that'll be very messy for the market structure bill. It has to be bipartisan. I have a I get this question a lot like, well, can't Republicans just pass this by themselves? Now, they need 60 votes in the Senate. Republicans only have about 50 53 seats. So they need about seven Democrats, six or seven Democrats in the Senate. So they need Democratic support. There's a contingent of 12 Democrats right now that are working really really hard to get to a bipartisan agreement. They see the potential and why we need a market

structure bill. It's great that the market regulators at the SEC and the CFTC are doing their thing and they've been awesome. That's fantastic. But we need a bill to administration proof this technology. We need to ensure that in four years, whoever become their three years now, whoever is the next president is not going to say, you know what, I'm anti-crypto. I'm going to take down everything the SEC did and everything the CFTC did because they can do that like this. You get legislation passed, they can't do that. So, I'm optimistic we'll still get to yes because there are members of Congress who are adamant and motivated that they're going to pass a bill. I just the timing is keeps getting delayed and that sucks. and and like you said, 2026 could pose delays as these politicians are going home, they're campaigning for reelection. Do you think

politicians will be able to campaign on crypto as a decision and a and a particular policy to sort of propel them into a re-election? For instance, you know, are we going to see Democrats trying to fight crypto and trying to say to to their constituents, hey, you know, we're against this crypto thing? They're probably going to lose a lot of votes, right? It's a not it's a not insignificant portion of this last administration that helped, you know, Trump get elected. And so, do you think we're going to end up seeing Republicans continue to to to preach this message and potentially see Democrats flip into pro- crypto in order to win over more of their constituents? Can they win an election that way?

>> 100%. The largest donors to the 2024 election by an industry was crypto. >> It's incredible. >> Wasn't banking. It wasn't traditional financial services. It wasn't real estate sector. >> Both sides. It was both sides. It was crypto. >> Yeah. >> The wait is over. The Talis [music] test net is live. Be part of the revolution. Join now at testnet.talis.network. >> Relay. Low fees, lightning speed, and the power of multi-chain at your [music] fingertips. Instant multi-chain payments. Choose any token on any chain. 75 plus network supported. More than 5 million users. 8 billion plus volume processed, 70 million plus transactions, fast, reliable, everywhere. Start

swapping today only on Relay. Asset management redefined. Built [music] on ERC7621. Standardize how you launch, manage, and trade onchain [music] baskets. This is Alvara, the standard for onchain asset management. >> Crypto. We just released a poll several weeks ago, and it looked at crypto voters. The majority of crypto holders who vote are singleissue voters. They vote with their wallet. >> Yeah. 100%. That's totally me. >> And the most the most shocking part about this is when you ask them their political ideology, they lean left.

>> Yeah. Like a lean mean Democratic >> middle left, but just whoever is going to support crypto, I'm not it doesn't nothing else matters. >> That is where the majority of the industry is. So if if Democrats or Republicans are smart and they see that there is this huge contingent growing every single >> young people too, right? young people, young voters that are singleisssue voters that it doesn't matter what their Democratic ideals are or their Republican ideals are that they're voting with their wallet. S >> and they are going to vote for who is pro crypto. It can absolutely carry the election. I think it's a huge part why Republicans have such a massive weight.

If you look at one specific race, not even the White House, the Ohio Senate race last year, it was Sharon Brown who was the leading senator on the Senate Banking Committee that is leading the market structure bill. He was the chairman last time. He went against Bernie Moreno who was pro- crypto, a former member of actually the digital chamber. Nice. >> He he he was one of the first people ever to tokenize car titles on the blockchain. He ran on a pro crypto message and he overtook the Senate Banking chair because shared ground was anti-crypto and crypto voters or single issue voters again knew how important the Senate Banking Committee was.

>> They can it can swing elections. So 100% if you're a Democrat or Republican running for the White House, running for Senate, running for House, running for school board. >> Yeah. across the country, you should be pro crypto because it will help you in your election. >> Yeah, it will. One one of the things that we've heard from previous conversations is that look, you know, the the Democrats want consumer protection, that's their main hold out when it comes to clarity as well as the rest of the regulation here. Look, regulations are what provide consumer protection. So, the fact that we had no regulations back during the Biden administration and the Gendler administration when, you know, there was zero regulation, there was zero consumer protection, that's when the Democrats were in office. Why aren't they fighting harder to get some regulation? Even if it's not clarity, even if it's something

else or clarity's reconfigured in some way, why aren't they pushing ahead some sort of regulation for consumer protection? >> I think Rob likes Trump. I think he swings right. This guy likes Trump. Hold on, tell us he loves Trump. >> I'm pro crypto as well. >> I look single issue voter. >> Yeah, I think most of the people in this room probably are. >> Yeah, it's uh I I couldn't agree more. It is asinine to me that the solution to something you don't like or something that you want more consumer protection is is let's do nothing. That doesn't work anymore. There was this contingent of the Democratic party and I and I should say this is a bipartisan issue.

Yeah. All those Democrats supported the Genius Act, supported market, but there is a contingent of the Democratic party still that believes digital assets is a fad. It is a trend and it's going to go away. It's bad for the economy. It is bad for consumers. It is bad for constituents. and they are trying to tell their constituents how to use their money and what to spend their money on. People don't like that. People don't want the government to tell them what they should spend their money. And so their solution instead of regulating it to your point to provide the consumer protections while they're sitting on the Senate floor like Senator Elizabeth Warren and screaming crypto is so bad.

Look at all the scams and fraud. Well, her solution is do nothing. >> Yeah. >> That makes no sense. >> Yeah. It's not the solution. >> The solution is regulation. >> The solution is regulation. And so if there if that faction of the Democratic party could join the other 18 20 in the Senate and the hundreds in the House on the Democratic side who are trying to push for those consumer protections through passing legislation, through rulemakings and regulation, we'd be in a much better place. All 100 senators should support digital asset legislation. Whether they hate the technology, they may never want to invest in Bitcoin. They may think Bitcoin is a scam. So be it. But their constituents are buying it. Their constituents are trading it. They're experimenting on Deepi protocol indexes now.

>> Yeah. >> It should want to protect them and that means passing consumer protections through legislation. Makes no sense. >> Yeah. So no brainer. You kind of coming back to the implementation of the Genius Act kind of full circle here. You just have a couple minutes. You know, you mentioned that we're in this like 18month or so implementation phase. I'm curious to understand the perspective from DC about non Genius compliance stable coins. So, uh, notably there's genius compliance stable coins, right? Fully backed. Uh, reserves are kept on public balance sheets. They're updated.

There's a whole list of things, right? >> Fracks as an example. Genius compliant stable coin. >> They don't pass yield back to their holders. These types of things, right? Uh, and then there's these stable coins that are like completely non- genius compliant. I like we basically call them a yield bearing stable coins. >> Sure. >> They're just basically meant for looping, for yield bearing. They're they're sometimes like mechanically pegged to a dollar. They're sometimes backed by other stable coins. They're kind of a mixed bag. What is the stance from DC on these kind of yield bearing non-genius compliant stable coins? >> Perhax is a great example of a genius compliant stable coin. Once they can be genius compliant with the implementation phase, yield bearing is a really interesting conversation.

>> You put it right. Yeah. Okay. >> Uh yieldbearing stable coins were explicitly prohibited in the Genius Act. That was done at the behest of the banking lobby. >> Right. >> The bank said there is no way we're going to allow stable coins to be able to generate yield and send that back to consumers because that is competing directly with our entire business. Correct. >> Right now there has been more debate after that about well what are rewards? >> What are rewards and these interests that if you're on Coinbase and you hold USDC 1%.

>> Um so that's a very interesting debate that's going on right now. I think what Congress started with these paymentbacked stable coins onetoone highly liquid backed by short-term treasuries because it was the easiest thing for them to understand. It was the lowhanging fruit of the digital asset world of the stable coin world. I think what you're going to see maybe not over the next several months but over the next several years in congresses is okay what is the next iteration of a stable coin look like? Can we relitigate yield bearing and see if there are other opportunities to maybe put those into the US financial system? Can we look at other types of backed stable coins? Can we look at goldbacked stable coins, other commodity backed stable coins,

other cryptobacked stable coins? Right now, those are not allowed under the Genius Act. >> I think the the market will dictate what DC does as often happens. there was such a explosion uh of US dollarbacked stable coins and these onetoone payment stable coins that the government had to respond and now we are seeing what happens when the government responds the market is taking off I think if the market is telling Washington hey we are demanding yield backed stable coins that'll be very fascinating to see how the government pivots if the market is saying hey we demand goldbacked stable coins or bitcoinbacked stable coins it'll be very interesting to see how congress pivots I think that's the next iteration I think we will see bills

start to be introduced later this Congress, next Congress once the Genius Act is fully implemented and we can just see, okay, what does this look like right now? What's next? That's always how Washington is thinking. I think that's next, but I think it's not a few months away, it's a few years away. >> Think thinking of what's next? Has the banking lobby shown any any indication that once Genius Act is implemented, they will also join the stable coin force? >> 100%. >> They have to about competition. That is why they wanted to prohibit yield backbearing stable coins because they want to issue their own stable coins and they want to make sure that they're still giving yield on their deposit >> and that they're the only ones that are able to give yield >> and the only ones. Yes, this is all about owning the market for them. They

want the mom and pop to go to not go to Coinbase or Kraken and go buy FRA and hold FRA and transact in FRA USD. They want them to go to City. They want to go to JP Morgan and just experiment with them. They want them to feel comfortable where they've already gone forever. They are terrified this new upstart that is competing with them. So the bank lobby is very in protectionist mode >> right now. But I have no doubt in my mind that the first people once Genius Act implementation is through that are issuing stable coins will be the largest banks.

>> Yeah, that's Yeah, I mean that's that's bound to happen. Um >> Habachi provable trade per with speed and security. Earn rewards. Visit hibachi.xyz. Trading on fire. Blockchain shortcuts, templates, and widgets launch without friction for builders by builders. Visit enso.build. Another interesting happening in the last month or two has been I think the CME announced that they're going to be doing settlement in stable coins for some of their markets. And I believe the NASDAQ is getting ready at some point, maybe the next year or two, to transition, but basically 247 markets.

So, it's funny how we thought that, you know, crypto was going to become more like Tradfi, but it's really trady is just kind of coming toward to terms that 247 markets, instant settlement. These things are just far more efficient and better than the current. >> We we've got the CFTC looking at tokenized collateral right now and our quest for common out there. You're completely right. I laugh at every crypto conference I go to and I was like, "Wow, there's a lot more suits here." >> Yes, >> there is a ton more suits here. And it's because Tradfi has come to crypto and not the other way around. Right? >> Crypto has started to compete on a scale that Trad could have never imagined.

>> Right? They forcing their hand to pay attention >> forcing their hand. And so when it comes to this uh 247 trading to the stable coin settlement for certain derivatives markets, what what needs to happen in DC for that to happen in like like what actually needs to happen for that to be implemented to see stable coins, you know, when I'm trading Amazon on my Schwab account and for that to settle to USDT or something. >> You don't need necessarily need legislation for that. That can just be guidance from the regulator at the CFTC saying, "Okay, this is okay and like here's how you do it. Here's how we we want you to do it. Here's the disclosures you need to provide to us to make sure that everyone can be safe.

Here are more consumer protection authority. Here's more enforcement authority for the CFTC to make sure everyone is safe and compliant. But there can be some rules of the road that can just come from the regulators. That just takes a quick stroke of the pen from the SEC or the CFTC. You don't necessarily need legislation for that. So, I imagine some of those developments that the market are driving will force the agencies to respond. We have never uh been more blessed at the agency heads right now at the SEC and CFC to have pro crypto yeah champions there that want to see this innovative 247 trading. They've already been exploring it. They've already had comment letters on it. The CFTC had a comment letter on 247 trading just a few months ago. All it needs is a quick stroke of the pen from those agency heads. That can happen like this.

And I imagine once the government opens back up, you will start to see over the next year as legislation slows down. Well, where will can we see policy progress? It'll be from those agencies that can move unilaterally quickly. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's important I mentioned that the the nomination for the CFTC is Michael Celig is pro crypto we're chamber everywhere. >> Crypto, right? >> He he's coming directly from he's chief counsel at the SEC crypto task force. Yeah. >> He worked at Wilky Far before this and his whole client book was crypto companies. >> He is a subject matter expert.

>> What what what is at the top of his mind? Is it uh stable coin collateralization for some of the CME contracts? What what what are some of the things that are on the top of his priority list so that when he does get in there, he's going to start to make these changes? >> It's a great question. I I think he's got to get confirmed first. So, he's probably thinking about that. Number one, uh some of these rulemakings that are out there on like 247 trading on collateral, it probably top of his list. He's going to be very influential in the market structure bill. So those legislators who are trying to write the rules in the road for the CFTC and the SEC, this market structure bill would give spot market authority over to the CFTC would have to appropriate a ton of money over the CFTC to now handle a

brand new industry. He's probably going to be very very uh focused and play influential in that legislative debate. He's going to be giving guidance and technical assistance to the lawmakers who are drafting this bill. That's probably priority number one is how can I get this bill across the finish line so I can have all this authority to now create a regulatory structure for the digital asset and how can businesses and position themselves for the clarity act to go live in the implementation phase. We saw stable coin issuing companies start to come to America start to coalesce around DC so that they were in position to capitalize on Genius Act.

How can businesses also capitalize on clarity act when it is uh enacted? Well, uh, shameless plug would be join the digital chamber. There you go. Shout out, >> uh, we can be helpful there. But no, you have to spend time in DC. Yeah. You have to get with this legislative text intimately. You have to know everything that you're going to need to do to be able to comply day one. I remember meeting Sam at FRA at the Bitcoin conference a few months ago, and it was before the Genius Act passed, and he said, "I know every single provision that is in that bill because we want to be able to comply right out of the gate.

If you're going to be successful as market structure is going through, you have to you have to be in DC. You have to be talking to the lawmakers. You have to be talking to the regulators, you need to be set yourself up for success and say, "I know every single provision and my business is going to need to comply with what licenses I'm going to need to apply for so that you're at the starting gate that once this bill is enacted and implementation is done, you're the first one that can be compliant. You have to know the bill intimately and you have to know the regulator >> and we've seen that from the leaders in DC. they actually get out in front of the bill and they're helping to shape it. So, not only are they, you know, learning it, understanding every provision in it so that they're ready

when it goes live, they're helping actively shape this bill. >> That's and that's what we've been doing. So, for the first time in the 11-year history of the digital chamber, we can be proactive. >> Yeah. >> We can finally say, "Hey, here's what we want in the bill." Because the lawmakers are listening to us. It is not that we're we just have to be reactive and just take the onslaught of enforcement actions or everything that's coming at us. We are sitting down at the table with the lawmakers saying okay here is what we want and they are listening here is what we need to make sure that we can comply but also continue to innovate in a row in the US. The lawmakers are approaching us before the bill goes to a discussion before the bill is introduced. That is something that has changed dramatically over the last 2 3 5

10 years where now we can be proactive and the industry has a legitimate say in all the bills that are being >> Cody. Who are you looking for to join the digital chamber? Is it founders, builders? Is there a certain segment of the industry? Businesses, how can they find you? And who are you looking for? >> Anyone that's building on blockchain. Look, our entire goal at the digital chamber is mass adoption. We just want to ensure that builders, developers, the largest projects in the world, the smallest project in the world can grow in the US. We are US focused. We are federally focused. We're doing a lot more at the state level as well. We want to export US ideals and policies overseas. We think we're going to have the leading regulatory framework right here at home in the US. anyone that is building on blockchain, whether you are

an exchange or you're a cryptonative company or you're now a traditional financial institution or you're consumer, you know, payment consumer payments oper uh operation or consumer goods. If you're McDonald's and you want to offer, you know, you want to have people can buy a Big Mac in Bitcoin, come work with us. We help because you're going to have policy issues. It doesn't matter who you are. If you are building using blockchain technology, we can be help. >> Cody Carbone, thank you for your time, man. What an amazing stable Russia. Yeah, fellas. Number nine coming off.