How to DAO and Not DIE

Transcript

um so I think our our next two speakers are ready to go uh it's so fun to have two speakers on this stage their their talk is called how to Dow and not die and the speakers are Christa Cott and Lauren l so give them a round of applause as they make their way up to the stage hello everyone thank you for having us so uh today we're going to talk about how to Dow and not to die so um we'll talk a little bit more about that but first I want to ask like um yeah how are you Lauren and who are you hello I'm I'm Lauren loose and I I work with gith I'm a gith product lead and I've been there for three years and you know what right now I'm like really

excited to be here with Chris I've admired Chris for a long time because he used to work with giveth and Lead comps then I stepped into his shoes and it's tough shoes to fill um so I'm really happy to be here on stage with him and and uh but like on a broader scale I'm I'm pretty pretty exhausted overall how how are you Chris yeah so um I'm also very exhausted and that's that's actually why why we want to do this talk it's about being exhausted so that's definitely the topic and so um yeah I'm Chris I work at gitcoin um I currently work part-time I'm really happy about that because I'm exhausted but so yeah I used to uh lead da operations at gitcoin so that's a lot of topics together and

before that as Lauren mentioned I was doing Communications for gith a few years back um and yeah so uh let's dive in yeah let's dive in so I guess the first thing I want to ask you is why the talk why how to die da and not die I know you're exhausted but like what what what are some of the ideas that are inspiring you indeed so uh yeah it's it's a very click baity title so it's actually the talk or the conversation that we want to have it's uh not just about not how like how to not die but it's actually how to thrive how can we thrive in this space because that's what we should be doing if we're talking about yeah changing the worlds World about web three about Dows

um like a DA cannot work without the people really thriving and so when just looking around here I already get super inspired it's beautiful to see all these people uh eat Barcelona is a very regen event uh there's a lot of the activists a lot of the people with a lot of energy here and that in itself is already something that makes me thrive and inspires me um but then when you when you look at like um a wider scale like well first of all the thing when you look here with all these ogs who are just like really building they're building non-stop um and that is inspiring but at the same time it might not be so healthy I think almost like

all the people I talk to here they're like yeah I am exhausted as well don't tell anyone um so like many people are and if you're like I don't have that issue at all I feel totally fine I'm chill I'm thriving well look around you and ask your peers if they are if they're not feeling good like just like just check in and and listen to them and this is not happening enough so if we want to thrive if we want to build a better better systems we have to First Look at ourselves uh I also had a great conversation yesterday with some people on like how can you build healthy systems if you are not healthy yourself um we need to we need to really have the time to to rest to regenerate to deal

with our own traumas with our pains the things that actually possibly brought us here um I and I think honestly personally I also feel that anyone in this space should maximum work like 50% because you we need time uh ESP because it's so important what we're building you need time to actually uh you know absorb the information to read to relax but like also yeah absorb culture if if you don't see what's happening in The Wider world how can you actually really know what the world needs so it's it's about a whole lot of things and then that's why I think like yeah that that is a topic that I I want to keep

bringing back because I actually already gave two presentations uh at the previous etc's on this topic um and I was hesitating but then then again like being here it's like not only do I feel every time that people need to talk about this more um I think it should at every event it should be a full track about like um culture about regenerating Etc and the great thing about e Barcelona is that there is actually culture track so like every event should have this we should we should really focus on this as much as possible so that is that is just like setting the scene that's like a little bit the the the the general points um so now to dive in a little bit like and like if we

think about burnout and and not crashing like what comes to mind what do you think that we could be doing you know I think I think you said it really well when you're saying like if we want to build better systems we need to make sure that we're also nourishing ourselves because otherwise we're going to build systems where we're we're not nourishing ourselves and we're not nourishing each other they like you can only be part of these systems if you're just like coming in and going super hard so I think that um like some of the things that we can do to to do better is just keeping that in mind like keeping it in mind that you're important like your health and your well-being is extremely important sleeping is so important it's like when I don't have a good night's sleep I feel so much worse

the next day all my problems seem like they're so much more insurmountable and even like my my ability to do the things that I want to do is like greatly decreased so I think like very basic things like eating well and sleeping and saying no to things um a major thing that I think could really help and I'm bad at this that's why I'm so exhausting exhausted is setting boundaries saying like actually that's too much um I I I lead products at gith I organize products and so much it happens that like oh we got a request from the fundraising team that now we're building this thing or like oh you know wouldn't it be great if like this part of our dap was improved and suddenly it just like

while I'm here trying to build quadratic funding also this other thing jumps onto my plate and I'm like well okay I guess I'll do it and then I I work extra hard and then I I just like in some way I disassociate and I don't really check in with like what I what I really need I'm like I I treat myself like I'm a machine I treat myself like I'm a product but I'm actually a human so setting boundaries saying like actually that's too much or saying even delegating and bringing more people in relying on teams and relying on community being like I can't manage this but maybe you could maybe this person could help me out I think that's really important and um one thing yeah i' would really like to stress too cuz in gith I've been there for for 3 years um so I I started out

not knowing really anything about crypto and web 3 and I sort of like figured it out and took on more and more things and now I'm like orchestrating so many different parts of gith and I just like feel like I'm somehow like the hand of the queen but like it it's it's a lot of responsibility and also a lot of people in the organization like somehow look up to me for for how I am behaving so if I don't set good boundaries I set like a cultural environment that trickles down where other people feel pressured like in order to take on that stuff that I'm doing they also need to work that hard and so it's I think like by taking care of ourselves we also encourage other people to take care of themselves and and then we can really propagate that

forward and and really be building things that we want for a better world and living in that better world as we're doing it yeah totally yeah what are what are some things that you think that that we can do to nourish ourselves and each other and yeah well first of all everything you said Plus on top of that um the thing that that like we we used to have this at getcoin at the moment we don't but we should have this again is like every organization should have a dedicated people person just like you know in standard organizations this is just HR like in Dows like this barely exists it's something that we do on the side but like for me it should be like 10 times as important because it's a da it's decentralized or it's not there's a

lot of like hidden structures of of of power that make things very often even more exhausting and and more complicated and we're all work we're all working remote so you need someone who takes care of the people and so that can be I I would say like a people person is someone who like relieves the stressors all sorts of stressors it could be like yeah how am I getting paid in this crazy world to begin with that's that's one thing that I already see people losing energy on it so can be a random thing but that's it's quite important like it's like what is unavoidable like death and taxes like even crypto so like people person very important um yeah and this person can also be a person who can just like that you can confide in if there's like um conflicts or tensions or

conflict resolution that needs to happen like such a person that will that does a lot I think it's for any organization any da think okay you you hire your developer or your developers a business Dev person maybe a com person and then the third or the fourth hire make that your people person like that just like be written in stone in like the laws of The Da like I think we need that um that that's one thing uh and then I think apart from that yeah indeed like really yeah nobody is going to save you except for hopefully that people person is going to help you a little bit um but some of the things that that came up before for me in is yeah health so just like try to um to bring structure in

your life life uh that's something that helps me a lot um just having a daily structure um moments that you just like shut off your phone and that you're uh really have time for yourself so like I I have my day of just like in the morning I go for a walk I have my lunch at the same well I have my breakfast I take time to read just to calm just to wake up to embrace the day uh I I I go for a walk I do some outside stuff I go in nature then I work and then I try to like stop at at a right time I'm also not always succeeding at that I'm like suffering from the same disease as you so like bad with boundaries but I try to and having that structure on a daily basis that helps me as well um another

thing that's important uh for me is um is connection so just like checking in with people uh can be your friends and if a lot of your friends are working in the space well then that's also fine but just like check in like book sometime in your calendar either to just like go entirely out of the space or just have a call with a friend in this space to not talk about the project but just talk about yourself like how are you doing just like book in some time block some time in your agenda if you don't block it someone else will book it for some other meeting that it's also very important but no it's very important that you take care of yourself and as a separate element I would even say like um nature like I really put that as a big topic just like nature I really

deeply believe in that it's also always I feel it's a topic in in E Barcelona I'm really sad that there's this years there's no grass on the stage but like touch grass touch grass when whenever you can it's it's an important thing um I think these yeah just a checking here yeah I think that's like the most important things for me um and then I guess a question that I have for you Lauren is so I come also from gith and I always appreciate it and honestly I think for many people it's also known in the space that like it always felt like a family uh I'm CH like right now even staying at the giveth house uh it's it's just so cozy it's so nice so and it it's a a nourishing in

itself to have that feeling so what how does this work at give for you what makes it tick what makes it work and what doesn't work yeah for sure I mean something I really love that you were just saying is how it's important to have a people person and you know we were also talking a lot about boundaries I think like having a people person and even somebody who's like making boundaries for the organization defining things and making them clear that are often like kind of like Loosey Goosey things like vacation like I I was actually talking with Ashley who's who's here in the audience and she's amazing and she was like mandatory vacation days it's like you must take X vacation in X period of time and just like having that set out is kind of like an organizational rule it creates like a

culture where people are like told to take care of themselves and in some way you know I need that I need someone to tell me like go sleep and take care of your so this is this can be really helpful um but yeah we've got a lot of different structures they giveth that I think really help to promote like a community of support and and all the res resour resources are available like we have a system called the buddy system um where everybody at giveth every giveth contributor has a buddy and their buddy it's like we kind of have like the taken care of Buddy and the taken care the caretaker buddy kind of like structure it's like a big brother little brother kind of system um but everybody has one so sometimes you're someone's big brother but then you're someone else's

little brother um and we're all just kind of like matched with each other and your buddy is a person who you can ask questions to about the organization that you can like get to know like you can ask for support and and I think like we with these buddy systems we really like build friendships with each other and start to like not see each other just as colleagues but also as humans and with like diverse sets of needs so like that's I think something really important and then there's there's other really small things that we do too like camera on culture you know I think it's so important is to realize that people are humans and that can get crazy in the crypto space when when like it's people a lot of people are Anon or icons they're just like camera offs but coming to conferences are often very nourishing

because you like see people and you're like how are you doing and they're like I'm struggling with this or I'm struggling with this and you can really kind of connect and be vulnerable with each other and I think like our camera on culture in some small way in calls creates that environment where yeah this memory that we're like threedimensional human beings oh yeah yeah and then also like I feel like camera on culture and then you I often have like little side DM chats with people you look so cute today and like how you doing oh is that a snack you know and that actually just like lightens everything up and I think like looking for the full of light things instead of all just the serious things is really important and then one more thing I'd really like to mention too that is also a resource is um

gravity da and and gith has really Incorporated this gravity system and and gravity is really focused on kind of like conflict resolution but also sort of like I'm thinking it's also kind of like internal conflict resolution like resolving conflicts with yourself and taking care of yourself so we have this like well we have like niola on the gravity team who's also here hanging out and Heather and and and they help people when they're having like weirdness they they help support people and we have a form you can fill out and you can be like hey I'm having this weird conflict in this sticky situation and then just like it opens a conversation of humanness and um we like work to solve things out of that and like these

gravity sessions will then often lead to kind of tangible things you know it's like we're having gravity sessions and realizing some problems coming up and then the end result is like okay let's create this like organizational thing where like everybody gets a little bit of extra vacation time or something like that and and I think that this is like really healthy because people can come in and keep like looking back like what else can I do like what like what can we as an organization then do to improve like our organizational mental health and bring that forward to the next step yeah that's beautiful and the thing that you also have a GI and we um we also actually use it a lot at getcoin is just a um this the strategy or like the pattern of gratitude so like just the praise system just like praise people

like whenever you can whenever you think of it just like send a message we have a special thread always going on uh about praise um and we also have uh at the beginning of our weekly meeting we also says like I just want to call out this person it's just wonderful what you did I see you even if nobody else sees you I've seen that you did this and I want to like I want everyone to know that that is just like one a really beautiful one and linked to that is um like we we have so many like oh we only have 30 minute meeting or or sometimes an hour but like we always try to do like check-ins like and with it it sounds so silly but it's so important like uh in like our um leadership meeting in the csdo call we always do this with the the

check in question generator and like then we go deep like what's the latest book that you read what is this and you can just have this random conversations that you like get to know each other because indeed you're far away all the time and it helps to connect the connection is super important yeah yeah definitely and then for you uh almost all the time but like what what doesn't work for you because we also need to talk about this what doesn't work you know I mean I I mentioned it before but I think like one thing that doesn't work is um when when like well when like leader when I as a leader will like not take care of myself and then that like trickles down into into other things I these see this is just like really being a problem especially if I I support so

many people and like so many people's buddy and um like I'm trying to like help them on board to the system and like somehow take care of themselves and I'm not taking care of myself so I think like it doesn't work if like if you're in a leadership role in a doubt it doesn't work if you're not also prioritizing some balance in your life like taking care of your body exercising going into nature I love your touch grass my mom is always telling me like I need to go barefoot and put my feet in the grass cuz it like connects you to the Earth and like balances your like electromagnetic field with the with the Earth my mom is kind of a hippie but I think it makes a lot of sense because if you put your bare feet in the grass you just feel better um so yeah that that's

something that I think doesn't work well and I'm really trying to work to improve though yeah yeah same same I would want to move out of the city honestly for that even there's not enough grass um so yeah we're running out of time but I wanted to hear from you a little bit about like what are some resources that people can can go to to learn a little bit more about how to take care of themselves yes totally so like one some of the things I wrote down here is like so uh I saw actually last year a talk about Livia who's also here and Tamara at the at the DST uh so you can look it up uh we can also create a little Thread about this so cultural practices in self-governing communities so like it's also the give ecosystem and this is a

lot about like setting a culture great just like having this as a framework is very important um yeah I did like uh um another talk which was a workshop uh which is called burnout is the easiest exploit so you can also look for that one on YouTube at Etc um there's projects like two plus but I saw they're on a break very healthy but like if you know other projects like like just like let us know and we share them you mentioned gravity Dow right gravity gravity da.org and they actually have a course right now where you can go and sign up for the course and like go through this these exercises and just learn conflict resolution and and self-care yeah okay so um then Lauren I do want to still thank you uh well thank

you for sure but like ask you like what are like some final thoughts uh because 20 minutes we're very frustrated 20 minutes is so not enough this is just like the tip of the iceberg but what are some final thoughts that you want to share when on this topic I think I mean final thoughts is like remembering remember to have gratitude for the people that are around you like even though I'm like kind of just like you know burning the meni oil constantly and feeling really burnt out like our community at gith it's like I actually like want to tear up talking our community at gith is so great and like they I see them all here hanging out and they're so supportive and they're such nice wonderful people and just like open your eyes like get out of your computer and realize that you're working with

real people real people who care about you and want to see you succeed bam yes and and and that is you're going to make me tear up as well but um that is actually the point that I have here in Capitals in my notes is actually be vulnerable it's super important just like open up just like this is hey we're build we're all here because we want to make the world a better place I think we want to improve the current systems if you're not going to open up like how you're doing how you're feeling it's never going to work just like be vulnerable connect um find your people uh another thing I would say like I think every person I'm really tearing up here uh every person needs to I think

every person needs to have like a therapist and a coach like both these things there was a quote from someone recently just like have this make your da pay for it just like which like a basic human right in Dows I think and then uh yeah keep coming to events but also like set your boundaries at events like pace yourself like these events are always super exhausting so you can go home you don't have to see all the talks they're recorded So you shouldn't even be here so so like very important uh and as a final point I wanted to say like um rdms are always open so like we're there um if you have other thoughts if you want to um yeah you know follow up on this honestly I think this should not just be a track at events this should be

a a yearlong like track that goes on where we just like support where we build more communities start more of these initiatives so um I would say like that's my recommendation just like let's connect let's keep connecting let's stay vulnerable and uh let's let's Thrive together so thank you thank [Applause] you y um actually we we do have some time for questions if if people have any questions if you haven't s them to the chat rooms I don't know if there are any questions like here that's from the or from the audience any questions for us if not that's fine too uh yeah

Gil how do youtify when you're starting to burn out so you can avoid going too deep into it oh yes that's a really a really good point um so uh what what Gil was asking yeah like H how do you actually see the signs of burning out because it's definitely it's a term that like completely overused I can say I'm personally like an expert I like burnt out multiple times like I've been home like twice for a full year when I was still working in the Legacy world and that how I knew that something was seriously wrong um so what are the signs I think for me a big sign is when you um like you know when every task that is normally simple for you becomes really very complicated and like oh I just have

to do this thing that I normally do and now oh I have to prepare the notes and it's impossible like it's too much like that's one thing um we talked about this like another one it's like yeah you know you just want to like start slamming your computer like get cynical you get like annoyed at moments that normally have way more level of patience so like you reach this like level that you're just like oh no every time you go in the red and so like that's one thing another thing that I know is like just like your sleep when if your sleep pattern is just like disrupted that's also a very big sign if you're just like not able to relax anymore and just like calm down and let go of the things I don't know other things that come to mind for you

yeah I mean so I I read what is burnout like some time a year ago and it was like like oh it said that productivity starts decreasing and I was like well I'm really depressed and unhappy but I'm not not productive I'm extremely productive actually I'm just like Angry all the time and very sad when everything gets done and actually I realized that that was me burning out and now like a year later I'm starting to get less productive so I think that like getting depressed is an early sign of burnout and I know that getting depressed is like not good and probably already too far but like for me it was like oh if only a year ago I actually started making actual changes instead of just saying like yeah I'm going to make changes but like I can still go hard now I'm like almost can't go hard yeah I I

had the same time like the first time this happened I remembered like going to to to a specialist and I was like yeah well you have you you just filled this thing out and you're like I have all the signs of burnout and it's like yeah but I'm still productive I think I'm totally okay and she was like and she had like an assistant there like and she was like so when you hear him do you think he's burnt out and she was like yes and then I was like okay thank you for the advice and then I still kept going for 3 months and then so like until I had started having panic attacks I really started just having panic attacks like I was like oh why am I just like running around and like can't breathe anymore that's called a panic attack so

if you reach that stage you're already like three months too far so and I had a friend who who actually told me before yesterday as well like I took a break of a month for a month and I was still tired I was still exhausted another example if you take vacation and you're just like still like it's not enough like it just shows you need more like allow yourself to do this the project is not going to go away this is this is not a Sprint this is a marathon so you can take a break seriously any other questions if we have time yeah maybe one more question sure so yeah so in Practical terms you said H I would say boundaries right so

how do you set your own limits and that's pretty difficult you don't know where to set the limits to have a healthy work routine or the work in general I think I think a really easy one to do is time boxing things being like this is the time I work I don't work after this you know I I um don't have I try to keep all work on Discord and my telegram I keep mostly like even I talk to work people but mostly not about work stuff you know so I don't see Discord notifications on my phone and like I think the healthiest is when I I'm like well you know even though the work isn't done at after eight hours of

working I still have to stop you know it's like just like commit to the time and stop it you know like I've reached the time and now I've stopped and I think that like just by doing that I mean it I think it really depends on the type of person that you you are but but like for me I I'll just like keep going and then I just really am focused and I want to finish the thing but it's not good it's not healthy and that thing is actually not that important it's so funny like all of those little things that I spent all those extra hours doing so many days ago like what did they do they didn't do anything else different like we're still here the same stuff is happening you know yeah so time boxing time boxing and for that reason like I I

I never for example I never work in the weekends like never it's like my holy rule like many people don't do even that like that's one thing I do I need also like in the evening I just like it's like after 9:00 p.m. I try not to I still work but at least I don't book any meetings anymore so like stuff like that but it's still it's yeah just like setting and that's different for everyone just like put your boundaries for yourself and ask indeed like your peers how they do it like just asking these questions exchanging tips and and and and tricks that helps for sure and one more thing I also really like the idea of committing to something not work related and making it very important and you can't miss it you know like I practice yoga every morning and if I

didn't I would be even worse you know like because it it helps me connect with my body it helps me just like kind of like release tension and really see where I'm at and feel into things and so I have to do yoga every morning and I've had to do yoga every morning for like for like a decade and I think that's actually been really really important so committing to things that aren't work-related that you know nourish you yeah totally okay yeah thank you so much thank you