How Camp Is Bridging The Gap With Social Data

Transcript

cuz all you have to do is sign up for an air drop yeah give them some money exactly what's hard is once those people have the air drop to actually get them to not dump very sensitive subject for like some of these web three natives where do you deploy who are building on Camp welcome to igen layer unlocked an interactive educational Journey Through the igen layer ecosystem created by technical Founders and builders for the entire crypto Community a special thank you to our partners allir polymer authentic skate and lrange for helping to make this happen our goal is to raise the collective knowledge of the igen lair AVS ecos system and unpack the technical designs of the top teams in space welcome to Ian layer

unlock welcome to the rollup nirav gajes Vias good to see you guys back I am absolutely jetlagged I mean yeah it's been a long 17 hour flight for I think most of us over here but uh got off the plane ready to do the rollup that's the way it works dude it was 4our turnaround for me I I was on the plane four hours ago my days yeah that was uh me and Sham last year yeah and like it was rough you but you guys learned you you know you got come that's why I got that's why I got here a day early yest my plan was to come early but United had other plans for me so I ended up Landing last night later to say l we were supposed to be on the same flight yeah exactly and New York SFO had had other plans for me so

yeah it's rough well I think today we're talking about Camp which you have a full outfit on which I need one of those hats bad I get you I got you make sure we send one over to the rollup over here absolutely I might bear one podcast equals one Camp one Camp over there it's the rati show we got over there we got to give one to Robbie too though yeah we'll get one to Robbie for sure for sure maybe you could tell I think this is your first time on so for our audience what is Camp who are you sir and um yeah why building Camp yeah super uh great questions and thanks Andy for having me excited to be on this with the a guys as well um quick background on me near of uh based in New York as is our entire growth team Camp is a social data

layer ultimately our idea was pretty simple it's if you look at the way that most web 2 apps were built it's largely using this combination of data identity Gathering user feedback iterating on that and then really building out over the course of 6 to 10 years a really strong product like Instagram or Tik Tok when we look at web 3 development Cycles the biggest problem to date has always been let's build a community let's ship an MVP let's launch a token and then what ends up happening is the community ends up just dipping to the next project because the opportunity cost of sticking around is too high when you could airdrop Farm or sort of earn yield anywhere else and so ultimately what we're doing at Camp is we aggregate online social data from the largest web 2 social and streaming platforms and then put it on chain in the most

verifiable and accurate way possible with the goal of a letting users actually monetize their online identities and B giving teams the opportunity to actually deliver more personalized experiences with the goals of finding product Market fit I think the reason why we're so excited about this idea is if you spend like more than 20 minutes on crypto Twitter today I would say 80% of the tweets are about how there's no apps that are actually relevant most of this is just infrastructure that has no real use cases and a result of that is because no apps are actually interesting and so we think Camp is sort of that Missing Link in order to create actually compelling apps both social consumer entertainment that people actually want to engage with wow that was a melt yeah sorry I can I can slm down if you need me to but all you need to know is

enabling the next generation of users to come online with good applications we can get right into it if you don't mind me going like a little spicy right um you mentioned that you want to essentially bring in web 2 data on chain and this is something that like is often a like very sensitive subject for like some of these web 3 natives who like are very hesitant about bridging their physical web 2 identities with their you know potentially Anonymous web 3 identities right and I know you guys have some strategies there about combating that but you know uh maybe you want to touch on like who your real like um user base is going to be and whether you're targeting these like traditional web3 users or you're focused on this

next generation of users that we're trying to bring on chain and like part of like increasing the overall adoption where do you see your guys' strategy in terms of like these two kind of major user groups today and like what you guys want to do in terms of of making a change in the ecosystem phenomenal question um so a couple things to hit on over here number one is web 3 as what I would call an industry has a higher percentage or like proportion of people who care about being completely undocked today than any other industry and so keeping that in mind there is 100% going to be a percentage of people who are never going to authenticate and share their data and we're totally okay with that but when you look at the existing web 3 population today or web 3 users today of what it could be it's like a

minute percent to say the very least and the other thing that people don't realize is web three people fundamentally also have their data like mind on Twitter which is the biggest web like the biggest crypto platform today everybody's already minding those sort of data today in terms of how we're sort of looking to combat this number one is it's becoming more and more clear that people are willing to do things that deliver a some sort of economic benefit or B A Better experience to what is the alternative today and so what we're doing at camp on sort of a is if you authenticate and share your data you actually give you a percentage of like SE Revenue share so why that's important is you're getting a continuous stream of that as opposed to just sort of a continuous stream of Revenue as opposed to like a onetime airdrop which you're

instantly going to dump and the result of that is if you're actually authenticating and sharing your data you're more incentivized to actually stay in the ecosystem because it ultimately leads to more revenue for you and on sort of the second Point delivering a more personalized experience one of the things that people hate is that the web 3 apps today all have a pretty one-sized fitall experience if me gudge Vios and Andy were to download the same app you know we'd all have the same discovery process which sucks the reason why people love Instagram love Twitter love Tik Tok is because the feeds are so personalized that within an hour we can basically have what's targeting us directly and so that's really what we're enabling when users actually authenticate to their web to data we're basically curating those more personalized experiences as well yes so one of the things that I think of

is actually another team that's building on IG lay which is lrange they have this ZK code processor it's a similar it's a completely different technical concept but the idea is you can en enable experiences that allow for longer term retention you can have these personalized experiences of you know you've done this on chain this on chain and you can build more customizable smart contracts you you can kind of do a lot talk to us about how with this new primitive of bringing this web to Identity On to web 3 on on chain what kind of use cases apps like what can I build with that that you know perhaps I couldn't with with what the standard is now yeah really good question um and

first of all we're super close to the gr chain we actually use them on the ZK Cod processor obviously fut I'm sure it makes sense to actually do a collaboration with them yeah yeah like one of the ways that you can get web2 data on chain if you're on Twitter is like this everybody's chilling this concept of like ZK TLS which is basically just using TLS notary which is a web 2 concept except running the proof with like a ZK proof instead of using like a third party attestation um and obviously at scale ZK is like as of right now it's still very expensive so lrange obviously brings on the cost for ZK co-processing um but in terms of what you can do in web using sort of camp that you can't do elsewhere so number one the data that we're providing is user level data so why that's important

is if you look at like traditional oracles it's all like macro it's like oh this person has X many followers that doesn't really matter using sort of Cam data you can say oh near of liked uh Arsenal on Twitter and then for example there's a ton of betting markets teams that are building on top of Camp they can feed me an Arsenal bet because I'm more likely to actually use that so the idea of sort of targeted advertising becomes so much more interesting I would say of all the teams building on Camp today the broad bucket they fall under to can be categorized in sort of three to four number one is do action X in web 2 and receive benefit Y in web 3 so that's your classic like let's say I'm using Blackbird because everybody loves Blackbird at the end of the day I'm

meeting at teresi with my wife a fantastic Italian restaurant in Soho congrats on the marriage I'm not actually married I don't know why I said I realized as soon as I said that I was like oh wait we're Al but you know I post a photo of sort of tagging teresi then Blackbird can say oh wow this person's not just a customer who used it they're also a brand ambassador and so I receive extra fly tokens for example so that's sort of the first bucket the second is we see a lot of teams in like Creator economy just to name a couple building on Camp Rebel uh verse as well sort of the idea there being hey connect your Twitter connect your Tik Tok that way we know what you like and so we can feed you existing content that's already on our platform that you're more likely

to actually interact with as opposed to you know the classic like Instagram case where if they don't have any data then I would get a sort of advertisement for like women's dresses I obviously don't have as much of an interest in women's dresses as I do in sort of oh like there's a ners game I might as well get tickets for that so the idea of sort of delivering that more cured personal experience and then I think the third one that's actually the most interesting to me is like those two are what I call bootstrapping your initial user following the third one that really matters is how do you keep users incentivized and engaged long term and that's almost like that retention based marketing where it's sort of saying hey this guy's done X Y and Z in this we noticed that he's done this more than

the other things so let's continue to shoot him that and then also when you have that ecosystem you can run that Cross promo and cross monetization scheme that works to a te and we've seen that happen in web too yeah I think that's the that's the kind of breakthrough is is the kind of initial accusation and then being able to to continuously provide people with what they want based on what they're doing offchain and bringing that you know onchain and making that a reality right so yeah user acquisition is easy in blockchain right but is it though because everyone's struggling I think they like like the l2s that are going to go and say look we're going to focus on growing top of funnel here instead of arguing about who's got the best tech I think in a year it's going to be clear that whoa these guys are are kind of

dominating yeah so here's how I'd phrase it um Tech is always second to distribution of blockchain I actually agree with you on that in terms of like because Tech gets commoditized in any industry over time right you look at like the way rasses have sort of evolved and whatnot the reason why I said user acquisition is easy is it's really easy to get a ton of people to sign up because all you have to do is sign up for an air drop yeah give them some money exactly like and tokens are sort of like the incentive that enables all that right what's hard is once those people have the airdrop to actually get them to not dump and to care yeah so like the line that Vias and I always joke about is you know get rid of the whole aird drop farmers and turn them

into ecosystem Campers at the end of the day and it's one of the reasons why we call it camp but the real value is can you have somebody who maintains their wallet activity for month over month I'm not even talking year-over-year but if you can do month over month and the best way to do that is with this like sticky user data that actually enables user stab retention at the end of the day give the people what they want exactly experiences win like one of the reasons why blast was super popular was because you could do things on the chain and it didn't break and even though a lot of the games were sort of like traditional Casino gamly style they were still fun to play and people knew that they were getting some economic incentive about it that's the biggest difference is if you

have things that work people will use it so you've kind of briefly touched on a few different points about airdrop farming ecosystem campers we talk about this a lot um but there's this kind of meta problem to l toos to blockchains right now which is like the Civil problem 100% And so maybe you want to touch on like what you guys are thinking about in terms of how you think some of this you know sticky user data can be used for civil resistance right and this is kind of one of the you know prominent issues of how do we fairly distribute ecosystem rewards to you know uh positive value adding members of the community versus those people who are

just there for that initial acquisition phase but then honestly contribute to the cell pressure of the airdrop itself at some point right 100% And gge before I answer I know you going to say something is that on the same oh no this is different okay different so I'll answer his question first but I think you're absolutely right the idea of an airdrop makes total sense to me it's reward users who contribute to the ecosystem the problem is the actual like bar for what contributing to an ecosystem is is like create a wall one transaction it's one transaction which is signing a transaction because everything's gasless testing that anyways right like it's fake money at the end of the day so this gets pretty interesting in a few different ways and this is something we spent a lot of time with the igen team on around bringing

sort of like Economic Security around this as well as sort of the idea of how do we make sure these are real users at the end of the day and like there's extremities to it and I would say World coin is the most extreme in terms of it is the most accurate to preserve like one individual as one person because you have to go get your eyeball scanned and it's linked to your phone so the the difference is the universality concept isn't there not everybody is going to be able to actually go out and sort of get the scan at the end of the day what we think we're doing is pretty interesting because number one you actually have to log in with the Social account now the flip side of this is like some guy could theoretically buy a th Twitter accounts and then have a thousand different like

wallets associated with that sure that's fine but if they're going through the effort with that kudos to them at the end of the day the second thing that we can really do is we believe that a lot of the world is trending towards what I call like onchain governance and a large part of that relates to social reputation and why that matters is then you can really say hey this person's participated in X many votes this person's done X much for for the ecosystem and you're able to track all of that data because it usually comes from the web two sources I.E Twitter at the end of the day then you can sort of say okay let's sort of reward season one with everybody who's ever logged in authenticated and shared their data totally fine totally reasonable season two airdrop let's say it's the people

who are actually core contributors they're constantly Shilling the ecosystem we see a lot of activity there that makes total sense to me because over time theoretically airdrops should be for the people who contribute more and more you start out wide and then you get more concentrated and so why that matters for ant cble is you're basically finding ways to actually reward your core contributors as opposed to people who are just like wash trading a ton of transactions in testnet s um I'm going to step back and ask ask really can you speed run into like who are building on Camp really good question um so a couple of things I would say we I'm obviously biased on this but I think we have the most aggressive bed team in the world uh yeah I mean like we're everywhere we try and be everywhere as much as possible um

shout out Charco shout out shout out shout out Drew shout out Jaden that's just the BD team and then obviously community and marketing as well shout out pre shout out pre we get I get more text when like pre drops a tweet than I do on my birthday saying how do you find your content guy after all this um no but all that's to say um we see the bulk of the teams building on top of us today being in what I call like entertainment consumer social and media and I think that's largely because the data that we're bringing on chain is more conducive for what I call consumer apps that's not to say that we haven't seen some interest on the defi teams using our data there's a couple of teams that are doing some pretty interesting stuff there's a team building on top of us

where they want to basically turn instead of trading like hashtag uh ticker signs they want to trade hashtags so instead of trading like Tia on a binance you could trade a tweet about Celestia and we're basically providing the Twitter streaming feed for that so they can actually determine what the pricing should be on a bonded curve we've seen a couple of teams try and use Twitter as an actual platform to create meme coins and whatnot so there are a few defi teams building but I would say the overwhelming majority are on like entertainment Creator economy provable fandom is pretty big as well and then just generally like music and gamified real world experiences are what I would say are the most popular five nice and outside of these two amazing guys why did you guys why' you choose to build on aen da yeah um I think there's

a lot of things uh and it's not just sort of the Y da we're also an AVS because when you think about social data longer term the natural Trend towards like proof of humanity and obviously you need the economic security of ethereum to back up all the data like in the early days you get your Twitter data leaked not the end of the world longer term you get like Bank information leaked or you get any Social Security data leaked very very very big lawsuit waiting to happen so it's one of the reasons why we really like igen both on the economic security side as well as the Da Side on the da side I think it's quite obvious that they've built one of the most fast plus cheap products and scalability is going to be extremely essential for this with the Quantum of data that we're hoping to move so that

was sort of the first thing I think the second thing is in terms of ecosystem support igen has done a phenomenal job of putting all their teams front and center to make sure they're in positions to succeed I won't like fud any other ecosystems but I think when you talk to other ecosystems as they consistently will tell you hey you know you do this we'll help you fundraise we'll put you on some podcasts we'll like get you on some panels we'll introduce you to the team the difference is Anan does that at like the speed of lightning compared to everybody else and they actually do it so something that might take another team a month will take Igan a day and a half and I think that's a testament to the quality of the team that they've really built and I think sort of the

last thing is just when you look at the amount of teams guy I mean I'm just Shilling his bags over here what do you want me to do G told me right before he's like yo cracking up right now he told me right before he's like yo before I get on he's like make sure you pump up I get okay I got to that made it work well for the record I did not say that no only under the this not that type of podcast no but I think all at all it can be boiled down to like Eco support um probably best product in the market I think the other thing that IG has done a really good job of is knowing where the market is trending so like first they

obviously had reaking and then they launched da after that and then now it's sort of like okay where's the market going to Trend and you sort of trust these guys and the big brain dat to actually figure out what's next on the market that's going to matter and I think that like approach to consistently innovating and building uh new products as opposed to just iterating on one product is what leads I to sort of be the monster that it is today beautiful the other kind of big question outside of Da ends up being where do you deploy and I know that you guys are still kind of you know thinking through that stuff yeah it's interesting I mean uh but where are we building this massive massive Camp Network that a good question no no I'm just kidding as as of today we use optimism and I think the

obvious reason for that is like when you think about interop uh Bas is like the 8,000 pound gorilla in the room and one of the things that we're experimenting with is also sort of like using our social data to power apps not just built on camps main net but on other main Nets as well so we're actually we announced like a huge partnership with Movement we doing a couple other big ones that are not yet public but uh you'll know them pretty well um about basically taking those consumer apps giving sort of Camp State oracles and letting their smart contracts live on whatever chain they really pick at the end of the day so one of the reasons why we really liked optimism was just their approach to BD and whatnot having said that you know we see a lot of these other big L2

ecosystem sort of emerging ZK sync arbitrum uh those sort of being the two prominent ones and then obviously movements having a lot of their teams be evm compatible as well so there's some conversations about moving around elsewhere as of right now as well yeah I mean treasure just moved to ZK sync treasure did gonna have a podcast with Carell about that I think uh I mean I put out a tweet that was saying like ZK sink's giving seven figure grants it's insane and people got pretty upset about it yeah it's it's interesting like the ZK so ZK s number one is giving s seven figure grants but it's not like here's 5 million bucks go crazy it's like hey hit all these mil correct yeah that's pretty standard across the ecosystem for the most part 100% yeah but like I don't know I don't

think arbit is given out that uh the numbers the numbers are different bed but I think the reason why people are upset is that if you look at like the 2022 Cycles um like the big ecosystems like Avalanche avalanch Rush polygon uh do do you remember avalanche's meme coin funds it was insane it's crazy $100 million or something for me polka dot had AAR which was their like $100 million uh ecosystem fund as well so history doesn't shend well for these massive ecosystem funds but so what I will say is like the one of the things was like if you look at salana I'm a huge Soul Sher by the way but like one of the things that salana did everybody better than anybody else is like even if they gave grants it was all organic like they

basically went to community they sat in the Discord like gudge is probably a good person to talk about this from his super team days as well but they basically found Builders who could ship and then they basically just invested really heavily in them when you look at a lot of those like evm scaling l2s it was like hey you're built here here's a million bucks come over and built here and the result of that is like you're obviously not going to leave your community so it's an extension and then you have the classic like fragmented liquidity problem of both users and TBL and so what I think is interesting on like the the ZK sync thing that you mentioned is they're basically trying to get exclusive contracts which I think is a better way to do it than trying to have like two different iterations of

camp for example for to build on ZK sync or like two different iterations of like magic Eden on like the existing plus whatnot so I think that's slightly a more interesting way to approach it and I think the other thing is like investing in Builders is massive the question is just if it comes from your own Foundation or your Investor's Foundation yeah and like you're seeing a lot of that with the like Bar's done a really good job of having the build bar teams raise from existing investors on their cap table like movement's done a really good job of this as well it sort of feels like zky in particular because you mentioned it from the seven figure standpoint is like they're just basically bootstrapping that initial dollar Quantum such that you can go out and build an MVP before going out to raise at a later time yeah I mean gudge

this like would love to sort of hear like you're OG super team when you're like 14 years old or whatever it was like how do you sort of see that salana supported like you folks in the early Builders there totally I think salana like they the super team was main the main goal was to uh I think the main goal was to like bootstrap like third world countries so like they they started with India they got like the biggest uh content creator in India but to like Shield their uh Shield his uh user Bas uh shout out all India Bak yeah all India Bak yes uh but India has done a great job into producing engineers and what they basically did was put like instag grants they were like 1K to 10K instant grants like in 48 hours you build app and they approve it usually

these were like public goods so uh they did like bootstrap bunch of these developers which are now at like really great like founding engineer like like really great positions in the Solana space and I think it would I this take is really hot but I think Solana wouldn't have existed because of FTX and super team because FTX s the money and um Super S sour devs and the and the non-tech community like non Tech is actually one of the things they uh they started which is unique so they had content grounds so you write some piece you get get a Content there used to be contest so I can go go day all day long but I think they did amazing job like getting all this T talent pool from so

there's one thing I want to touch on there which is like kind of a problem right now in our community in the ethereum space which um I think a few of us have like kind of you know talked this to a tea but um there used to be this like vocal aggregation effect of like communities in ethereum kind of hyping each other up Y and right now most of the time these l2s these um projects in the ethereum space are fighting for the same devs the same users the same daps the same you know players and the problem is like um the more we like lack internal coordination the more we will start externally losing the battle to other ecosystems which is where I think like salana does a great

job um and you know you mentioned that you know you guys are currently on op for the interop but um you know potentially ZK potentially other things is it possible that we see some sort of like Bridge solution from camp at some point where you effectively have this like bridge data layer that can work across the ZK the op the ARB stacks and kind of any team building on any stack can can be able to leverage some of this you know user social data layer yeah I mean this is like the 1010 billion question and like you can even boil this down from like a 10,000 foot overview of like are L2 is good for ethereum long term um and then if you sort of take that a step further it's like does OP

want to bridge with arbitrum that's like a separate question that you sort of need to philosophically answer there's a certain amount of like tribalism that exists in blockchain you know you have your op like die hards you have your arbitrum die hards do they really want that sense of inter up and so I think from like the found team's perspective at each of those ecosystems they sort of going to have to go back to the drawing board and say hey do we want to put in standardized procedures to be able to actually do this but I I 100% agree I think it's the biggest question today is like users don't give a sh are you let to swe on this podcast we don't care okay cool yeah users don't give a [ __ ] about it they actually like users don't give a [ __ ] what anything is built on top of

they just care about like how easy it is to do things and so like everybody always says that and they're like oh yeah all we need is like better like features and like better like actual ux but nobody's actually doing anything about it because everybody's too busy trying to pump their own bags at the end of the day and so like that's for what it's worth the reason why people love salana is like you have your Phantom wallet which is used across all the salana apps there's never that much of a pain to actually go out and use different things for different specific like applications on salana it's all just very composable and I think that's where ethereum has to Trend towards if it wants to sort of compete on a long-term basis as well and do you think Camp will be building something that is

you know kind of that that bridge composable layer across all these ecosystems yes we actually uh we we're shipping a new feature right now where basically any evm uh app or like chain can basically use our data layer and there's going to be a lot that we're doing on that around like DS on how to basically make it such that the wallets are compatible with each other because obviously like some apps use magic link some apps use privy some apps use capsule like and then a lot of apps use wallet connect because it's free and so the key is going to be like how do you maintain the feeds within each of those and so the real exciting part for us is like powering the entire evm when it comes to social data as opposed to just sort of powering a specific sort of like

ecosystem awesome well thanks for coming out man it's been an absolute pleasure about at that time thank you thanks folks appreciate that