How Bitcoin Solved This Serial Entrepreneur's Problems

Transcript

Hi, everyone. Welcome to Unchained, a podcast engineered by Fractal Recording and produced by me, your host, Laura Shin, a senior editor at Forbes covering all things crypto. Thanks for tuning in. If you've been enjoying this podcast, please help get the word out about the show. Share it on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, or on your secret Slack and Telegram channels. And if you have a chance, please give the show a rating or review on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Big thanks to our sponsor, OnRamp. If you're having an ICO, a token sale, a token allocation event, a token generation event, or whatever you're calling your offering that passes the Howie test, you need a website. Check out OnRamp. This full service creative and design agency provides its clients with attractive and persuasive branding, websites, and marketing materials. Spark interest in your project, generate buzz.

Check out thinkonramp.com. I am recording here on Sir Richard Branson's Necker Island, which is where the podcast was born a little over a year ago. I'm here again for the Blockchain Summit, which is hosted by the Bitfury Group and Bill Tai, who was a guest on the podcast last year and whose amazing episode you should definitely check out. This summit is where I met today's guest, Roya Mahbub, a serial entrepreneur and president of Digital Citizen Fund, Digital Citizen Brew and Eddie Eddie. And in 2013, she was named one of Time Magazine's 100 Most Influential People in the World. Welcome, Roya. Thank you, Laura, for having me here. So Roya, out of all the Bitcoin entrepreneurs I've ever interviewed, I would say you have the most different and most inspiring story. And you're also using Bitcoin in one of the most different ways.

So you're originally from Afghanistan. How did you get your start with technology? Well, at age of 16 years old, I heard about that there is a box that is magic box that you can touch and you can connect with the world and you can ask any question that you want. And then also you can talk with the people without meeting with them and they are ready to answer your questions. So for me, at the age of 16, I hear that there is an internet club just opened in Herat and I went there and that's for the first time when I use the internet and use the computer and I found out that there is a new world outside waiting for me to explore it. And that's what everything's changed for me. From that point on, I decided to make technology the center of my career.

So what were you doing back then? Like, was it just like you were Googling questions or what? I mean, before the using the computer or- Yeah, like when you started. When I, yeah, I was Googling with, when you, put any words, you could get thousands of news or you could get a lot of the articles. That was very interesting because at Herod in 2003, the Taliban just left it and it was very limited books in the library and it was very old books and then mostly coming from Iran and then we didn't have any updated information. And it was, for me, it was fascinating that this small boxes we can find any information, thousands of the books or many of the books are available. And did you speak English

at that time? No, it was in Farsi. You could also find a lot of information. But I learned English actually through social media, I mean, through chatting. I hear that there was a Yahoo Messenger. You could go to the public and then you could chat with the people. And for me, it was interesting, but I was very shy and very unconfident person. But when I started chatting with people, it's increased my confidence. And I learned more and I tried to learn and I had a book to checking the words and in English and I can write. So that's how I learned. Wait, are you serious? Like, did you have any formal education in English? Not that much. There was like some books that were available. And then, but later on, I had classes in our university that I took it because we

were lucky and we had the German as our teachers. So the only way to communicate with our teacher were English. That's amazing. I'm so impressed with that. So then you also started a company at a young age. How did you come to start your first company? Well, I started working in a writing with an IT coordinator for three years. And then I went to move to the Ministry of Higher Education and worked as an IT coordinator. project manager of the IT departments. And then at that time I meet with Paul Brinkley and another school leader, he was on the secretary of defense at that time. And they- Like an American, I guess. Okay. And then they were coming and then they had a concept

to bring like building a technology center in Herod and that we were discussed about that. And but at that time I say, okay, we created a lot of the software and it was mostly free. And we showed us software and applications to a team that he brought from Silicon Valley and everyone has encouraged us. And then we said that why we don't make it a commercialized. And then that's how I started the Afghanistan software. Interesting. Wait, you developed it for the ministry, but then you... We developed it for university and ministry, but it was a team of the girls mostly. And also there was boys as well. we built most of the educational software free and giving to the public.

We didn't tell at that time that maybe we might be able to make it commercialized and make money. But then when they came, they're discussing about big projects and then they said, why we don't start it. And then I started my first company and at the same time, Task Force for Business Sustainability Operation, they built an incubator in Herat. And then I was- Who was it that program? Task Force for Business Sustainability Operation. It was a program by DOD of US. So they brought- The Department of Defense. Yeah. Okay. They built an incubator, the first incubator in Hroth and they brought IBM and Google, but the IBM advisor mentor were reminder. We were like, I was one of the seven

companies that we were in that incubator. And what did your company do and what was it called? It was called Afghan Student Software. Before that incubator build, we started to working in the coffee shop and restaurants because we didn't have a place to work. And my work was we provided services in IT infrastructure, procurement of the computers, building the networks for like universities and then also we building the software or giving the consultancy on the applications. So like IT services? Yes, full IT services. services for ICD services. And how old were you when you started that company? I was 23. Wow. That's amazing. Yes.

And who were your investors and clients? Like how did you find business? Well, I was trying first to working with the US government and then it was good working with the US government. We could make money with the contracts, but the problem was that the people were conservative and because we were mostly female engineers today, they didn't like that we work with them. So they started to rumors and giving our names to the conservative leaders. So we decided to work on the government, African government's contracts. But then the other problem was having government contract was that based on the law, women could get participated. But once you get a contract, they make your life like a hill to giving, paying your payments. So my biggest problem

was that corruption was exist at that time and many of the contracts and the government. And then the other problem that I had, it was that they don't pay on time. And I want to go back earlier when you were saying like when you were trying to get private clients, they were giving your names to whom again? And... No, the private clients didn't give us our names. I mean, when I was starting working for the US government for some of their contacts or NATO, so then conservative and the people who didn't like that, they're giving our names to the local Taliban and then inform them that, oh, these people, they are women, they are working with military. So that was it. But what was the purpose of that? They're giving your names to the Taliban? Because to send other threats to us and didn't want

to be working. What kinds of threats? Yeah. like the trades or they were just telling you that you shouldn't work with them or you are like not anymore Muslim. So like they're making a lot of names for you. It wasn't only that you work for the US government. Also it was the broader problem was that if you work with a man outside, it wasn't at all acceptable. And I was the first, like when we started in technology, we were the first company as a female. And I was the CEO, but we had also male like a co-worker. But the problem is that our... most of my, it wasn't a problem, but it was a problem for the society of conservative and male dominated that many of my employees were women and the young girls. So that was unacceptable if we give in henshant or we

work with it, we go to the military places and became, everyone's make it like a lot of rumours that, oh, they never like, mentioned that we were get those contracts or if we work because of our ability, because of we have the ability and we have talent to work to get this, they make it through, oh, they do blah, blah, that's why they get the contract. So they make it that's through, it was created, was a danger for our reputation as well to living in that conservative society. And you also mentioned that they put a spy in your company? It was after that I became at the time 100. they started to put in a spine my campaign because my campaign grew very fast. And then I started to hire a lot of the women and also

the men to working inside of my company and also work online for me. And then my competitors that didn't like that. And they are mostly, we call them mafia of IT industry because they get the most, at that time they got all the biggest contracts in IT. So they put it on the spine to giving information of my, whatever I had in projects for what I'm doing and everything is outside. Wow. And also the government, it sounds like, was making things difficult for you. So how did you solve these problems? Well, it was very difficult because in governments at that time, it was like, it was elections going on and then President Karzé didn't sign the agreement, former President Karzé didn't sign the agreement. The security wasn't that good.

It wasn't only for my company, it was for many of the companies at that time. They had the challenges, very difficult times with the government. And the problem with the government, they didn't support my work. So that was the biggest challenges because when I went to complaining and asking them to support, they never like really very supportive of to help me at that time. And you also mentioned during the summit that your employees were even attacked. What happened? Well, when It was in 2012. I backed that why, what's happening after then I did a contract, what was a contract or then I pushed back by society because they started to make rumors and then they also put, they broke in our window of our

office and then they sent a trades in my house and then that's, I moved to Kabul. And then I decided, my team were in rot, but I decided to be staying in Kabul to not only to be more safe, but also just because Kabul was a bigger place that we could find the clients. And then I decided that, okay, it's very, I should not be relying on the contracts anymore. And I shouldn't be relying on private sectors that they don't want to work with women. And I decided to become a social citizen and using the advantage of the free market and finding the clients outside of the border. So that's why I reached out through the LinkedIn. Someone's invited me to the LinkedIn to create a call. Then I was, I went there and I said, oh, wow, this is a great place. So

I started to find clients there. And that lead me to find an investor there that he was Italian American in New York. We never meet and he contacted me and then we discussed about different projects. And then he interested in one of my ideas and one of our projects and he invested. And then that investment has helped me to make money with advertising and network. And then that's what traffic. And then I decided to giving back to the community. So when I started giving back to the community, we building the IT centers inside of the schools, and then we teaching the girls how to work with the computer.

And is all of this the digital citizen fund? Digital citizen funds, yeah. to the other digital sum funds umbrella. At that time, my campaign building with the profits that we made it with the platform called VooMENX. Okay, but keep going with how you were doing that you were building these education centers. So, I mean, at that time, I feel that, okay, I mean, I could overcome a lot of the challenges and it's because of the technology and internet, it's helped me to not connect to the border of country of domestic life or a country that some people can make a decision about my life or my company. And I overcome a lot of challenges, struggles that we had. And it's also break down

the barriers for me. But I knew that there are still many of the girls who are outside. They're just like me. They're curious but giving no vision to explore the world. They wanted to know more, but they don't know what's truly possible for them. And that's why I decided to give him back. And I talked with my partner and my business partner, and he was totally agree. And then he says, and he said, I sent 50% of free or profits, it was 100% to building the centers. And that's how we started to building the IT centers. We first started with one of the schools, we're building one IT centers for them. And we got a lot of the positive and see the girls. When I see these girls go online for the first time, it always would be break the memorize of the first time

I use the internet. at Annegaffine Herat, you could literally see the changes in your face. These women and girls, they have their entire life just talk with close relatives and the family member. And instead that they are connected with the world and they have a digital voice. They have a voice to talk about your stories that No one wanted at that time to listen to them. And the other thing is that these women and girls, their entire life, depending on the men, and for the first time with the skills of the technology, with the skill of the internet, they feel the financial independence. And this has the power how the conservative nations can change their view on the women. So when I started building these centers, we also started to provide training for them. And then we

said, okay, they're learning. So what's the next? Finding opportunities to find a job for them. So the platform that we built with Francesco was called Women in X. It was a technology that allowed women to write blogs and upload movies and they're working online. And we pay to those who write their original content and stuff. better content. We paid for some of the content provider for. And that's lead us to it. that we can keep continue. And then at that time I had hundreds of people who started working for me online. And then we had built two offices, one in Hroat, one in Karpol. And then we started to hiring people, not only from female, but also from male that they do marketing. It

was easier to do it through men, to go to work with the private sectors and talking easier than the women to deal with them. So that's how I started to work. And I actually wanna go back to when you stopped working with Afghan companies and the government and found your own citizens or your own clients outside. Where did you find those clients? Mostly through LinkedIn. Right. But like what countries? Mostly it was in America. And then the good thing is that when I found this, my business partner and he started to, like when he was in my company, in my idea, we shift our contract base to only focusing on working on that platform, Women in X, and develop the software. So we shifted it later. So

eventually it was just the blog. Okay. Yeah. And then that platform is making us enough money. that we keep continuing. And the money you were generating revenue from ads? It was from advertising and ad network and also the traffic. We got 6,000 of the public domain and also some from private filmmakers donated in our platform. So we created, generated views and then that's, we had like 2 million, some of them all. And then we had also the months that we had 5 million viewers that they came to our platform. Great. And I actually just also want to ask you about your family. Did they fully support you in all this or did they also have reservations? When I was started, before I started my company, my family, my father was very open-minded and that's why, I mean, he was

very supportive of what I do. My mom as well. And then my brother were at the beginning conservative. I mean, of course, they were living in conservative and very male-dominated country. And that's why they were at the beginning, not happy, but when I started to, social media really empowered me and I started to talk at the home and then giving the ideas and the beginning, they start to ignoring whatever I had an idea, but later on, they started to think differently. And it's very, very important when you're living in such conservative societies to have support of the family. If I didn't have the support of my family, I wasn't able to do any of these things. Of course, I motivated

my family. I involved with everything they did. And that's why they keep continuing to support me. And when there was a time that the neighbors and the men and our Hroth community, they came to my father and they told that they have to stop me. He has to stop me. He had to stop me because I am a disordered family and I'm working with military, I'm working with the parents and I'm taking pictures. It's not good for a Muslim woman. Wait, I'm sorry, who was this that came to your family and said that? Our society is different. The community members are like the shawra or the people that they know my father. So they reach out to friends of my father and the

people who work, my father worked with them. So they came and they told my father he has to stop And otherwise I might end up to be very bad, like very disorienting the family. So they have to stop me now. And what is your father saying? My father says that he said that he fully trusts me and he knows what I'm doing and he involved in everything and he won't stop me. And that's why I keep continuing. But of course, at that point, when the... I received a tax and it wasn't a good time to stay in Herat, so I left it to Kabul. Okay. And then is it at Digital Citizen Fund that you were having difficulty paying your users? It was with the Women and

X platform. So we had difficulties because when the number of users increased, And then we had a problem of paying the students. And many of these female students didn't have a bank account. I mean, almost 99% of them didn't have a bank account. And why not? Because based on the law of Afghanistan, women can have a bank account when they become 18 years old. But based on the culture, it was mostly cultural and barriers. And there are many of the family, they didn't believe on the banking system. or it's still even it's not about the female, I guess that maybe only 30% of the Afghans trust bank, they're still using the Hawala system. I don't know if you hear about Hawala system is, Hawala system is

started this eighth century. It's for many years was the only way, a trustful transfer of money. So it's like, I trust someone and then I give the money to this person and this person knows that another person's to, and then that person, he called that person to give a quote to that person and that person gave the money to... to others. It's kind of similar to Bitcoin, but it's not really. But it's kind of that many still in Afghanistan and many other countries are still using the Havala system. It's like an 8th century Bitcoin. Yeah, they call the Bitcoins the 21st century of Havala system. So that's hilarious. Yeah, and then so

the problem that and then there was also other issues that the boom I mean, the bank is the same. They have to go to the bank and register. They have to have every of like documents and they have to have permission of the families and family didn't want to open a bank account for them. So it was a lot of the struggle that we had. And then we decided to use a PayPal account and PayPal didn't work in Afghanistan. And then we decided to use mobile money. It was a Paces and then And the problem with mobile money was if we send the money, it still was expensive because the receiver and transfer still caught the money. So if it wasn't really affordable that we send it through. And at that time, it wasn't really worked. They had this concept for years through USID

program, but at the time that we wanted, they didn't really implement it in a way that we could use it. So we were just looking to find a base because the number of users get increased we didn't know how to pay these employees. And for me, it was difficult because the money came to my bank account and it was also dangerous for me because if people find out, oh, she has a lot of money, they keep knocking and the selling money was easy. And every time that I went to bank to get the money to distribute it, I had to brought my brother, cousin, and also my other male employees to go with me to the bank to get the money and then we go together because It was difficult. And then the other problem was with the money is when you

distribute the money, We didn't only had the female who write the plot, but we also had some male, but some of them, especially from male, they get the money and then they just came back in and didn't deny. And you show them the signature and they said, this is not my signature. So this was another issue. Wait, I don't understand. They deny what? They deny that they get the money. Oh, like they want it to be paid a second time. Yeah, for the second time. And then it was another challenge for my employees to managing of how keeping the records of these people that they get paid and then they want a second time. So it's like, we had these difficulties a lot. And- Actually, I also want to go back when you said you had to go to the bank with your

male relatives and employees, the bank account was in your name, right? Yeah. So I don't understand- The reason to protect us to get the money from the bank and going back to home. And at that time, there were lots of criminal, that if they find out that you have a lot of money in the bank and when you go and coming back and forth, it was more safe to go with a couple of men. And then it was a more like I think we didn't have to trust to the people in the bank or we didn't trust the environments. We decided to have some people to protect us, to go and back. And then the other thing, that these are issues that I have to give the money to the different schools and different people to come and then they distributed the money

to the users. And it was a challenging for us to keep record of every person in the bank. banking was good if we could send to everybody and we could keep every records. But unfortunately, they didn't have a bank. So then how did you hear about Bitcoin? So then my former business partner, Francisco, one day sent me an article about Bitcoin and he says, what do you think about this? And then I was reading, I was a bit skeptical and then I said, what does it eat? And then I was reading and then he keeps sending me the article and he was so fascinated about bitcoins. And he said that Roya, I'm going to move to bitcoins. And I said at that time, I think the price of Bitcoin was $800 in 2013, I guess. But, and then I said, yeah, it's

interesting. And then when I read about the concept, it was so similar to how the system, and I was like, okay, so maybe I can explain to the people easier. And then when I started to tell the students that how we, the users, how we're going to pay them, I was used to have all it. And then I just told them that this is a new version of digital of the how- Oh my God, that's amazing. I love it. And it's crazy to me that the system didn't change from the eighth century until the 21st century, but they replaced it with the digital version of the same old system. That's amazing. But I mean, Bitcoin has a lot of features. I mean, blockchain and Bitcoin has a lot of features that they can keep the records and a lot of other things, but it still,

it was very easier to explain everybody. And then I said that this is the money that you can keep it. I mean, you know, to explain to Afghans when they don't touch something, it was difficult that they accept, but when you talking about like how the system was easier that they can understand, we told them that they can keep their money using digital wallet. And then the good thing is also was in the way that we brought the Bitcoins in Afghanistan was that when the students at that time, when the female starts to make money, some of the family take where they force the money from them. And they couldn't buy the things that they want. It was always when they make money someone is taking from them. And I wanted that they have a freedom of what they make it. And of course, I

totally support them that they can support their families, but also for those who wanted to save it and want to keep it for their future, for their education or for whatever they needed for their lives, it was good to to keep it in the digital wallet. So we teach them about how to build the e-wallet and then how to keep the Bitcoins there. And then that's how we brought it. And then another challenge was that how they make it cash in case that they need it. So then my company decided to also make them cash in the rate of what's in the market. And then we also talking with a couple of the shops that if that time that if the students have to get received bitcoins to encourage them, they can buy in the stock. So we talked with some of

the shops that they had the closing and uniform for the school or going outside and they accepted in case that we immediately make for them with cash. And we discussed with them, we teach them about bitcoins. So it wasn't going well. And then we decided also to talking about, and then it was, and then there was also time that we decided to building We also decided to building it and then there was a card that we built it. The student who had make Bitcoins, if they wanted to buy online books, so then we quit buying for them online books. Oh, like a debit card. Yeah. And then we received books in our office and then we could send that to Afghanistan and distribute it to the

students. And we encourage many of these students to keep their Bitcoins to, if they go on, like if they couldn't go to university in Afghanistan, they can study online and paying for the university in Bitcoins or they can make it to cash later. And that was how we started in 2013 and 2014 and the platform worked very well. And then we started working in Pakistan. We started paying the users in Pakistan. We started also in Egypt. We started in Mexico and it's growing very fast. How many users were you? We had more than 60,000 subscription and then the user that provided at least, I guess at 25% was trying to contribute it, but some of them rarely contributed and you make more money. And that was also another reason that we talked to treating into how to bring the changes was when the user increased,

the money that we had is get less and less because we have to distribute it to many of the content content contributor. And I found out that the Afghans when they're writing the plagues, they didn't write in the quality that they get more money. So that was all a decision that we decided to making a new platform, new things that to create the goals that I started ADAD platform. And it still is under development. But that's my next platform that I'm going to work on that. Okay, so we're going to break now for an important word from our sponsor, OnRamp, but we'll come back and learn more about Eddie Eddie. With so many companies vying for people's attention now, it's important to stand out from the pack. If you're starting up a new decentralized project and want to spread the word about it, check out OnRamp, a full service creative agency that

helps projects maximize awareness, gain traction, and accelerate growth. OnRamp has helped numerous organizations do everything from create their branding and identity to redesign their existing website. Plus, they've helped blockchain startups and projects. Whether you're launching a new project, repositioning an existing organization, or just want to freshen your company's look, OnRamp can come up with a tailored design project or a strategic marketing plan that ensures your lead in the market. Learn more and see examples of its work at thinkonramp.com. So yeah, why don't you continue with Eddie Eddie? What are your goals there? So with Eddie Eddie, we are trying to bridge the gap between education and job markets. And we are trying to educate the kids and the teenagers mostly to learn about vocational skills that created the job for them later in the market. Right now we are in very

early stage and we hope that this would be my next company. I brought the platform that we built it in the US and then we registered there and we got offer of investment. Hopefully we get the money and we can start to work on this platform. What did you do with the... What's it, WomenX? WomenX, in the end of 2014, we closed the platform. And then we decided to just provide a training in blockchain and what the blockchain is and what the Bitcoin is, keep continuing through digital funds.

Through the same organization? Yeah. Okay. And then right now we train the girls just to learn about Bitcoin concept. They learn about how to make a wallet. And then right now they also start to learn about Ethereum. And they learn also about blockchains. Are you teaching them to code in addition? Yes. In additional cell phones, we provide training in coding. They learn about how to code and they learn about ICT. From first, they started to learn how to work with computers because many of them, they never saw a computer or they never had access to computer. So we provide training from basic. They learn about computer, then they learn about social media. After social media, there are students who are in advanced classes, then they can learn about coding. When they learn about coding, they learn about Bitcoin concept, learn about blockchain, they learn about

Ethereum, and they learn about the concept of this. Because I believe the education and awareness is great things that we can promote and advocate that how our governments can use blockchain in the future. And that's how we have to start it from early ages. that teaching the kids and they are very willing to learn and they are more interested to learn. We also, traditional some funds provide financial literacy that is just started and they're teaching the kids that how to manage the money from level of home to entrepreneurship. So when we say that we came to advanced classes, we combine of the those students who learn about coding, we take the students to work with those who learn about financial

literacy to start a business. So we have 100 women this year, they started to working together or they started by themselves in five industries, agriculture, food, fashion, and craft, and robotics and games. Yeah. So maybe you can give some examples of some of the companies, but then I want to talk about the robotics too. Sure. We have one of the students that she learned, she came to our classes to learn about coding and also social media. She learned about ice cream. I mean, she learned how to make an ice cream from Italian recipe. And she went back home and she told her father that she wanted to start business in ice cream. And her father was just crazy and he

didn't want to listen. For six months, she had struggled to convince her father to get a machine to make him ice cream. And then her father told her that she only can do it for her relatives. only the family, not outside because her father was filled with shame or whatever, he didn't wanted to support her. But then she started to do it. And then the neighbors and the relatives started to order and giving for like the events and the parties that they had. She made a very, very delicious restaurant. Right now she is distributed to all the restaurants in her lot. And her father, brothers, and mom joined to her business and they're working as a family business. And they're all working for her. All working and she's the

boss. Love it. Yeah. And then we have another student in agriculture. Her father had big farms, but her father had a struggle to how to make money with the farms that they had and I call to business. And her daughter, Parvane, she's coming to her classes and she learned about the business class and how to make the business plan and marketing and accounting and everything. And she also learned about how to coding. So she came to her father and she told about her business idea. Her father also didn't want to listen to him. And then she reached to her teacher and the teacher convinced her father, came to the classes and then, and listened to her pitch. And then her father for the first time, listening to her

daughter's pitch of the business and the ego of the man that, you know, that never like listening to the daughters. Her father was really like impressed with her daughter. And it was, has never come to her mind, his mind that her daughter can be loved this and she can do it. She can be like a son. And now her father changed all of his business based on what her daughter suggested. And now not only they dry the Spanish and they make a pocket and they bring it to market. It was interesting that no one has come to their mind that they can do dry the Spanish and make money. And it is too brought from Iran. They always like for years and years, we brought from Iran. but no one thought that to do it, very simple things. And she did it. And

then now she's working on her website to making online businesses into selling the dry fruits and everything that they have in their farms to make it dry and sell it out. Wow. So going back to the robotics, I also know that you sponsored that girls robotics team that made so much news recently, but it almost didn't happen. the story of the obstacles they faced and how they overcame them? Sure. And the Afghanistan team, I mean, we started about robotics and end of 2016 when the president of first school ball contacted me and he told me about the amazing program that he has and he wanted to do the first Olympic game.

in DC and he asked me if I know a team of the teenagers that are in high school that they can participate from Afghanistan. So I started to read a search about that to finding that this team, but I couldn't and it was difficult. And then I said, oh, well, I have all the programs in my school. So why shouldn't I start a team of the girl to come for robotics? Because everyone's thinking how they do that time robotics for boys. So we made it a tech test exams from 150 students. We took 22 and then get 20, then to 15 students to come to our program.

But the problem was when we started, we had a problem of the training because many of these kids didn't know about robotic and some of them, they a little bit know about like very simple concept of robotic. And the other challenges of that, that the families talk their daughters out of the programs because they say that first they don't want to let their girls go to US and then what robotic means. So they talk it, only six families remind. And then we had problem with electricity, internet connections, of course, again, with the training and trainer. And then in March of 2017, and first go about some robotic kits, stay in our custom. So custom gym wants

to give the robot, because they have never saw something like this came to Afghanistan. And they say that it might be danger, maybe it's come to the wrong hands and be ISIS use it against the government. So they didn't want to give to us. And then we keep continue to talk with them. And we brought all the documents and show them, but didn't work. They didn't care. We told them that it's the competition when they hear that it's a female team. So they didn't care at all at that time. So they didn't want to give off their bots. It's three months to stay with them. This was just the components to build a robot. Yes, it was. And then we had these challenges and then the girls went for the first time to do the interview in the US embassy. And unfortunately, with

respect to the decision of the counselor, they were rejected. And the entire team rejected and they came back and we talked with Joseph Seck and then he talked with the State Department. And then they says, okay, we will give another chance to the girls to come for the second time. And then meanwhile, we still keep continuing to ask the government to give us the robotic kits that we can work with them. and then they didn't. So then the girls started to working with the hand men, the staff with the carton, plastic, and they started to building their own small robot to learn how to work. They build small cars, they build a trend, they build for themselves to dry hair.

Dry hair. Dry hair. And then the building is a small service and to motivate to keep continuing. And then the men will, and then They invited for the second time interview and unfortunately the second time was in the middle. The appointment was at a time that if you remember it was early June and there was an attack in Kabul. There was a protest going on. It was so bad. It was three days after after it was three times attack. Then there was a protest in the streets and the security wasn't good at all. And the families didn't want to let the girls to come at that time. And then many of these girls again crying and asking, begging their families to allow them for the second chance at least they have opportunity to come and preserve their robots and this computation.

But at the end, the family allowed for one day, we brought the kids to Kabul and then we sent them to embassy with the hope that at least a few of them get access. But unfortunately again, everyone's rejected and It was quite upsetting to see that our entire team rejected them. And what was the embassy's reason? Well, there was a couple of things they did. They don't tell exactly the reason, but there was a couple of things. One is that the limited number of the B1, B2 for Afghan citizens. And then second, there was another concern is that maybe the girls are staying in the United States. which we believe that these kids were under the age of 18, they couldn't speak English,

and then they had a problem of the family, it was very difficult to get their family's permission to come for one week. And in any case, the girls back and they were very upset, but disappointed with the decision, but then the girls decided to build their robot in any way they wanted to send their robot. So they build their robot during the Ramadan, And then before eight, they completed robots and then they sent it to the US. And then we tried to find another team of African-Americans here to be representative of them. But in Maywell, we started to also, when we find out that we are only one of two teams in 163 countries that they get, we are one of two countries that

denied the visa. we very get upset that because my students, Fatima says that I always thought Americans are our friends because of 15 years of relationship with United States and what United States and other internationally really did for us like to in terms of woman empowerment, in terms of education for women, in terms of the woman rights and democracy. So we couldn't believe that our team of girls couldn't come here, but our new birds could come in. Like Pakistan, Iran, Sudan, all of them could come in, but our team couldn't get it. And then we started to talk with the press and we are very, very thankful. The first magazine wrote

it was Forbes, the first one. And then after that, a lot of other media and the press contacted us and we continued to talk with them. And I think it was part of the media. So finally, President Trump felt pressure to- Exactly. They made it this stories and then the Congressman Joe Carty and Susana, they started to also write a petition that get 53 other Congressman signature that to us from the city department to give us the visa. And then it was just when I saw that article, I said, oh, something's going to be happening. It was a week before and we didn't get any preparation. We didn't know what's gonna happen. And then the next day, President Trump

approved that the girls continue. And then afterward, the reaction in Afghanistan was a little bit different than what you expected. What was that? Yes, and it was like, I mean, when the time that we didn't get the visa and we started to do press and everyone's talked about it, many of the press wrote about and showing the girls and even Bernie Sanders, Suna Tua, Bernie Sanders wrote in his Facebook and Suna Tua Shaheen's and like everyone's talked about that, but my government and my people get so silent and they didn't talk about this. And we tried to approach them and ask them to just say one, a few sentences that they are proud of the girls. It doesn't matter if they didn't get the visa, just to create a hope for other girls and other families that we can continue the steam program in

Afghanistan. And unfortunately it didn't work, but when President Trump and the first person who recognized us with Afghanistan team was Afghan ambassador in DC. I'm very, very thankful to him and he wrote that he's proud of our team and he came to airport and he came and I think also deputy on the Secretary of State Department also joined. And then, yeah, the girls came here to the airport when they arrived they just surprised with all of this media and all the attention everyone's coming. And I think that was quite very, very proud moment for Afghans or I think it's supposed to

changing. Like for centuries, woman's ability was ignored. Not only woman, even our voice getting ignored by our community, our societies, our government. And, but now, No, it didn't. And then when the girls back, President Ashraf Ghani is on the call and they meet with President Ashraf Ghani and First Lady. They meet with Chief Executive Dr. Abdullah. They meet with former President Karzai. They meet with the ministers. They meet with the parliament representative. And everyone's happy and proud of them. And it was for the first time that the girls from Afghanistan participated in the science and technology. It's something that it It never happened in centuries in the past. And

I feel that, oh my God, something has changed. They are yet become as a symbol of hope, but they become as a symbol of unity. And these girls bring a light in the heart of the Afghans. Of course, we got a lot of threats by conservatives, but I see also the men in our community, especially in Herod, they jump in and they stand with the girls. And it's never happened in the past. I mean, if a woman get threats by local and conservative, local Taliban or by Taliban or conservatives, usually you can see less people wants to be involved to support. But for these girls, we saw that this happening. Yeah, and it's interesting that it was a 180, like just over such

a brief time period. Yeah, and it's just, I mean, I was like surprised and seeing, reading the comments and seeing that how many Afghans means support. And they say that they are proud of these girls. And the great thing is that I feel that now our leaders, our people believe the woman's ability in the science and other technology. So this is very important for us. And now I hope that they hear our voice and let not only for the female, the young girls, but also for youths, for men, for the boys as well, to give them an opportunity that they can change their lives and they can design created things that they can change their lives and their communities. So this is very important. So I actually, I

wanna go back to Bitcoin. I know you're not using it right now. Why not? And tell us what you were thinking about maybe a token. Well, I actually, I personally use the Bitcoins. I invest on Bitcoins and we do the trades with Bitcoins. Like what do you use it for to like, hey, your sister? I mean, with my sister-in-law and I do the trades and then using the Bitcoin Ethereum, we invest it. We also have a lot of- Are you doing like, when you say trades, you mean like you're trading? Yeah, trading. Oh, wow. My sister is doing it. That's funny. She's doing it and she was also the first teacher to teach the kids how to worry about Bitcoins. And we lost, I have to say that with Bitcoin, we lost a lot of money as well because the price goes up and down.

But now, but we built it on the Bitcoin, so we keep some of our Bitcoins. But now we decided that to working on new concept because this woman who started a business, so what's the next for them? They have to sell their product. And still the banking has this issue. And it's very difficult to buying and selling to the online banking system in Afghanistan with a lot of progress and procedure that they have. So we are going to starting a new platform, this online marketplace that this woman, all the skills that we have in our program, plus the other businesswomen that they can participate in here, participate in the platform and they can sell their goods online. and buying the goods line and they will

use the Bitcoins in this platform. And we also providing training. It's not only for just sell and buy. This platform also provide training for the females about what's the markets and what's new in the markets and all the news about business, marketing and everything that we provided. And then this woman have a platform that they can communicate do business together, to build partnership or do meet up places. So it always is what's gonna happen to this marketplace. And it's good things that to come in here at Blockchain Summit at New Holland, such lucky I am, is that to hearing the others, like everyone's

here has like a beautiful story, you know, they have very inspiring story that they're working in different technology and using the blockchain and bitcoins for different industries. And I got some kind of idea that we wanted to implement in our marketing place or Afghan marketplace that hopefully when I back and I'm trying to make some partnership and visually are, before we die, we will be able to make this happen in Afghanistan because we can simply use for giving social line to the women's to be P2B in this platform that the woman can start their businesses and get a loan with. Oh, a

loan, yeah. Yeah, and then we can also using the blockchain for technology of insurance for this woman so they can send the products outside of the US, outside of Afghanistan, but using the insurance for the protection of her jewelries or whatever they build it. So there are lots of technologies that exist in blockchain that Sometimes we don't aware, but in such kind of the amazing subits, we can learn about others and how we can collaborate. Right, but you were saying also, because you were saying that you might use Bitcoin, but then you also said some people suggested to you to use your own token. Yes, we went to a single university two weeks ago and I talked with the students there and we discussed about

this platform. Some of them suggest that why you don't use your own coins, building your own coins. So we are working on that as well to see that if we can building our own coins in this platform. Or we're using Bitcoin. So this is two things that we are still trying to figure out that which one is better for us. Bitcoin has a value. So that's important about Bitcoin. It has a value. It could be for Bitcoin. anything that we can use that. But if we have our own coins, it's also much easier and it would be coins to support women's and that would be in the platform and we can easily work with that.

But we have to work on the concept and figure out that, what is the best for us to use. And I have to mention that the marketplace is not going to be only for Afghanistan, but it will be as a pilot project for Afghanistan because this digital sim funds has programmed Mexico, Brazil, and other countries that we wanted to try to make it work right. I mean, bring it to do other countries as well to help the women that they are in the business. This is mostly for small businesses and medium-sized businesses that they can support them. Well, this is amazing. I'm so excited that I got to meet you and to learn about your work. So where can people learn more about you and also get in touch with you? DigitalSumFunds is our website. We have to update it, but it's our website

that they can learn about our projects. And that's digitalcitizenfund.org? Yes, .org. And then they can find me through Twitter. It's my emulator sister. And I'm always... trying to respond to email fast. And yeah, I mean, we have a Twitter account, we have a website that they can contact with us. And I wanted to get the opportunity to announce one of our project to support digital subfund. It's a new initiative that we started, it's called Digital Susan Brew.

And we created a coffee and the tea that we bring a spice, we're buying the spice, special spice like saffron from Afghanistan and from our students that are working on the farms. And we brought it, we will bring it to US and then we bring this coffee from South America. We made a very delicious blending of this formula of the coffee. It's very good for depression, for the health, for the heart, and as well, it's a unique product. that support education and technology access for different countries that women have the ability to learn about new skills and they can get their financial independence. Okay, great.

Well, that's so exciting. Thank you. I will check it out. Thank you, Roya, for coming on the show. Thank you very much for having me here. Thanks everyone for joining us today. If you're interested in learning more about Roya, check out the show notes, which are available on my Forbes page. Forbes.com slash sites slash Laura Shin. Unchained comes out every other Tuesday. Please share the podcast with friends and on social media. And remember to review, rate, and subscribe to it in iTunes or your preferred platform. Thanks again for listening.