The Future is Modular: Aevo Appchain Explained

Transcript

welcome back to the rollup High Roller Community as always nothing on the rollup is to be construed as Financial advice we are just an Educators in the defi space toss us a quick like give us a share a repost send it to a friend who may want to watch this and finally give us a sub or a follow it means the world to help support credibly neutral educational content in def5 we're here to educate Empower and enrich you and let's jump in the Futures modu the Futures app change the future is me getting liquidated on AO in hopes of being a good leverage Trader and Julian taking all my Shettles the future is here Julian I'm just messing around GM

sir or GN to you how how are you man good yeah thanks for having me uh nice to know that you're also one of the traders who got liquidated on a because uh that makes two of us yeah probably makes three of us here and plenty of us watching I must say that the experience was seamless and uh and quite quite a nice UI which I assume is even going to be ticking to the next level um you know with with this transition to kind of just full app chain using Celestia da um yeah I would love to hear kind of about the the uh the the path that you guys been on kind of ribbon days into into where you are now and why you believe the futurist modu yeah I mean uh

we sort of brief history of ribbon and AO uh we started AO about three and a half years ago so it's been a really pretty long time in crypto in crypto uh time um I think our original idea was like there were all these just like sort of like this explosion of Structured Products and like crypto uh is in Asia and we were thinking about okay there were all these like Chinese Brokers building these like Structured Products for Chinese billionaires uh and we thought okay can we take those products and make it into this like defi native format um I think one very striking example was back then uh you could only

invest in these products if you had like 100 BTC so it's really really targeted at BTC miners BTC Wales um so yeah we we sort of converted that product into like a defi native format um it it got really popular in 2021 uh I think we when we launched in April we started out with you know a million of TV and over the next like 6 to eight months it it blo all the way to like 400 mil of tvl so I mean like huge growth and adoption in that product um but yeah I mean then obviously you know the bare Market hit and uh you know I think when when Market suddenly turns everyone sort of pulls

the capital from the riskiest and most like DJ products uh and they they sort of one of move their money to what is like the safest lowest APR like yield in defi or even like exit crypto Al together right we saw a lot of people sort of withdraw their crypto into you know the their their uh traditional savings accounts um so we saw a massive like compression in tvl and interest in this type of crypto Structured Products and we started thinking about okay what is like we we need like a strong second act we can't just sit around and wait for the next cycle for people to get risk on again so I think the very natural extension was like we have this

product that is that generates like a ton of option volume uh these vaults and we thought okay what if we could actually build like a an options exchange that's sort of attached to this product uh so we're not just like this Yi Vault Vault thing but we're also like the exchange underneath as well um so that was like the the core idea of Evo uh we started out building like uh focus on trying to be like the best crypto options exchange and I think the vision has just been growing since then so we launched PS which has been growing like crazy uh We've launched some of these new instruments which just been has become really popular um yeah that's sort of like where we are today um in

terms of like why this is relevant to like your podcast I think you know we were one of the first teams to actually like adopt this app chain or or roll app pieces I think when we were thinking about okay which Tech stack do we build able on you know do we build it on salana do we build it on another like Fast layer one chain do we build our own chain uh there's sort of many different considerations and I think just at that point in time this was you know over a year ago um almost like a year and a half already and uh the the the op stack was just like becoming a thing like no one had ever actually used that word

like a year and a half ago no one talked about the op stack um but you know there are some of these like optimism Forks like we saw a few of these layer tws just like Fork the optimism code base and just run with it um and I think yeah we felt like okay like this optimism Tex stack is actually pretty mature it's been forked many times in production uh we know it's like something that's been stable and uh we thought you know can we actually use like this TCH stack to actually build what we want um and like the layer two thesis was just becoming a thing uh optimism arbit are growing like crazy um but you know we we thought like

uh we felt like we needed our own isolated execution environment uh because we were this like high performance low downtime exchange we we couldn't have like we didn't want to be built on the Chain which had thousands of other apps on it and that could create some sort of congestion and sort of competition for Block space so yeah we wanted to build be like our own little ecosystem um so that was like the Genesis of the idea and why we chose this stack and we were speaking to these like rollup providers which are also just like starting out I think um yeah Paradigm who is one of our investors uh they were also incubating this new like rollup as a service company back then

called conduit and you know we were just chatting with them about like what we need we we didn't actually think like they were going to be ready by by the time we were going to launch but you know we made it work like we were their first customers I think uh they they they were awesome uh we we were really like their first uh production customers to launch like a mainnet uh rollup um and yeah we've been set off running with that since so you know the most recent announcement was that we actually switched out like the da layer from E mainnet to Celestia which was also uh partly sort of done in conjunction with conduit as well so uh it's sort of like

this trip party uh contribution it was in just since cesa yeah awesome um and that that's gonna uh I saw a a a chart of a a different project that asum soon as they in integrated Celestia for da their sequencer profit was like this and then as soon as they integrated it started to come actually go up so I imagine for you guys something similar where you guys will save a ton on on costs for uh for data publishing yeah so that was actually like one of the main reasons why you did this um I think in our case specifically uh we actually subsidize

gas for like all our users because we want to create this like centralized exchange experience experience you know like let's say you wanted to do like a $10,000 trade um maybe You' we don't want users to have to think about okay do I do like $110,000 trades or will I save on gas if I just do one big trade that like all these things actually make the user experience really bad like how many transactions am I actually going to send and so on so you know we decided let's just subsidize All Gas users would basically feel like they're using a centralized Exchange uh they don't need to think about gas at all that was sort of one of the core principles of building AO um and yeah obviously like in Q4 our our user counts started going

like parabolic uh ethereum price started going up and like ethereum gas started going up like all at the same time so you know what we were subsidizing which was you know pretty small at the start this it quickly became like in the six figures a month um wow that that's sort of why we were like oh like this is actually getting really expensive expensive uh yeah can we actually like switch to a different da layer to to bring this down like ASAP um and and that's how this whole like Celestia conversation began um it was like very immediate like business need for us yeah yeah I mean the savings are are are absolutely awesome and and just gives a better uh experience for the

users and a lot of people are are pretty excited about um just kind of everything that's been happening with with AO obviously you guys had the ausd as well kind of like the yield bearing collateral or just kind of savings in your account which I think coming from Jui in 2020 was something that a lot of people were excited about um tons of interesting Primitives of course you guys have been have been running this kind of like Point retroactive reward campaign obviously there's a lot of speculation there now um yeah I mean I'm I'm just curious like what's what's on the what's on the road map for for AO what's you what's the uh Focus going forward post integration with celesa now

you guys have got your cost down and what can the community expect yeah so uh as I mentioned before like we started out being like an options Focus exchange and then we kind of grew our sort of vision to become like the everything exchange so in Q4 of last year like we were really focused on growing our perss um and our perss volume has been you know it used to be just like a small part of our total volume but now like pers makes up like 90% of our total volume so that has grown like crazy um I think we've been like really aggressive in listing a lot of new and interesting markets and that has really drawn users in um so yeah I think in this quarter like one of the big projects that we're

working on is uh just continuing our growth and U we are really focused on like growing the number of users on the platform uh making liquidity better and just sort of uh actually running like a proper incentives program for the first time so you know I think part of like our uh when we sort of pivoted from ribon to AO we also uh decided to do this token Rebrand so um ribbon token holders would convert to this like new token called the able token one to one um and that's stated to happen pretty soon um so yeah I think once we do this Rebrand we're also going to launch uh a

big is incentive program uh that sort of reward people who trade on the platform so I think that will supercharge a growth um and I mean people people love tokens so I think uh yeah that would be definitely something that people look forward to I I hope there's an allocation for Deens whove gotten liquidated only one way only one way to bring him back home baby bring him home yeah you know like uh interestingly uh some of these like online casinos uh like if you lose if you lose your your entire sort of account balance like they'll sort of incentivize you to come

back by like saying hey we're gonna like yeah they'll like inject money to your account and bring you back and put you top up again so you know that could be like an interesting thing we we employ as well yeah see we'll see would be uh for all the long lost Deens out there and of course the celestic community is uh is ever growing it's the the S the sck ti has become like the three three of this cycle people are saying and I imagine as more da layers launch it'll be a bit more competition and things but for now Celestia's kind of got a a stronghold on that so I expect that three3 Meme to kind of continue yeah I mean I think um for sure

like the da space is going to become really competitive in the next few months um yeah all these like da layers uh including like igen da and even like ethereum's native da um so yeah we'll see how the market fragments but I think for now like Celestia is like a a monopoly in the da world and like they first to Market it's like a stable product is great um but yeah very curious to see how this plays out in the next few months as well and the integration with Celestia has lowered the data publishing cost tremendously and allowed you to to recoup a lot of those cost as Revenue now yep and and that's a benefit of this Celestia integration what what other

like what additional benefits have you seen as a result of going this app chain route yeah so I mean obviously like saving six figures a month is like one of the major ones um basically it in it improves like the profitability of the exchange by quite quite a bit um I think some of the stuff that we haven't tried yet but we are very interested in trying is um like right now we there's some sort of parameters that you can adjust in the rollup so for example like the block size uh the the block Time stuff like that but you know if you have like one second blocks and you make the blocks really big you're actually

posting a ton of data to ethereum um so it's really really expensive to do but if you sort of have drive that cost down by like 90 plus% like maybe that actually becomes like a viable thing that you could do so uh some of the new things we are looking at is just like you what happens if we really just tune up the rollup parameters like crazy and yeah like what interesting things could happen uh how quick can you actually create blocks um or how much data do you basically stuff into these vogs there's one interesting like uh thing we're looking at now but um yeah still very much experimental um so I think for sure like the first and major thing is you

know we we save like over a million or two a year that's like the major one uh secondary is we have all this like potential um improvements and like performance and just like tuning up a bunch of parameters as well very cool would would uh tuning up some of those parameters uh like quicker would that allow you to unlock new scale and and new strategies that are available for the users or even recoup even more Revenue as a result of publishing blocks more frequently um it it would I think for users perspective it would feel pretty much the same um but yeah some of the stuff we we we are exploring some stuff in the back end now where you know like

what if we could I think well one big piece of like Alpha that we are working on uh this year is we we going to try and transition from just being this one single app on our own chain to having multiple apps on the Chain um and yeah I do think that's sort of where bigger blocks and faster block times would really uh be felt by the user so if you stake AO you get fun times in the future uh that that's potentially uh a direction we could go down I think uh I mean I I love I I love the I I love the Celestia like uh you know you st Celestia you get all these

air drops I really love that Meme so yeah maybe we could that could be like a model that AO follows as well what other plans uh for the token will be integrated to the platform like obviously there's models like binance coin where you get fee rebate there's models like um uh like like GMX and things where you stake and you can uh earn fees and eat and then you've got like glp and obviously other per Dees have kind of bolts where you can copy trade and also you know trade against what what are some of the the uh liquidity models that you have in mindar yeah so I think in terms of like the token we're not going to do something super crazy I think some of these models

are like really effective so uh I think the model that we currently like is you know the the uh sort of binance style model where uh you know you get fee discounts um and there's some sort of like uh value that's given back to token holders um so on that front we're still sort of working on it but the model that we kind of like now is the maker style uh buyback and LP uh value AC model so that's likely what we're going to emply as well for the token fantastic um well as we as we kind of wrap up the community wanted to know about different options for different assets uh different token pairs um and

just kind of like like the like the general direction that uh hers and options are are heading so maybe it close us off with some thoughts on that as well as uh the upcoming events yeah I think uh right now I think like the option users and the per users are quite different like in terms of like what kind of Traders they are uh perps are more like the DJ altcoin Traders options of like the high IQ like mathematical guys generally so I would say yeah there's been a pretty clean split between the types of users we have um but we we are like cooking up some new ideas where um we we basically combine both products so one sort of

idea that we've been thinking about is actually like another exchange has done this uh byit actually did this which is called protected perss so for example you know you long some BTC um there's this sort of like button that says like oh do you want like downside protection in case your trade goes really bad um it's like a really simple UI you click yes or no uh but under the hood it just like buys a put option for you or something like that and it kind of like bundles both an option and a put into one thing um so that's the kind of thing which we think is really interesting and we don't think any other Dex in defi has the capability of doing um so so we are thinking along those

lines um yeah we are also quite inspired by some of the uh retail funded liquidity models so stuff like GMX glp uh hyper liquid obviously has a very similar uh hlp model and we also working on our own sort of like a retail funded LP model uh in the option site which is pretty interesting as well so we'll be sort of launching that hope within the next month or two um so yeah those are some of the exciting things to look forward to I think the main one is really uh token Rebrand plus incentives I think those would basically Drive our use of growth and set of adoption by a

lot um so yeah really focus on that right now let's go Julian thank you so much for for coming on brother it's been a pleasure and excited to see some of these updates come to parition man cool thanks man