The Future of Dogecoin with TJ Miller and Jordan Jefferson

Transcript

It's crazy [music] to think that Dogecoin could be what Bitcoin was supposed to be. >> Doge is actually an awesome blockchain. Second biggest proof of work blockchain in the world. Bitcoin maxis are always like, "How can this be worth anything?" >> This is a real ecosystem being built on a fake thing. TJ Miller, actor, comedian, and early Bitcoin believer, has blended Hollywood energy with crypto conviction, using his platform to spotlight the culture and comedy behind decentralization. Known for Deadpool, Silicon [music] Valley, and Ready Player 1. He's become one of the few entertainers truly plugged into crypto's creative edge. Jordan Jefferson, [music] founder of My Doge, and Doge OS, is the mind behind bringing Dogecoin utility to life, building [music] tools that turn memes into money movement. Together, they bridge entertainment, [music]

culture, and crypto adoption with a mix of humor, conviction, and pure Doge energy. >> Do you mind if I do if I take this aerobic stuff home? Is this okay? Welcome back to the rollup. I'm Robbie. >> I'm Andy. Robbie and I met at the University of Florida in 2017 [music] where we first found out about digital assets. >> We learned a lot along the way and we're bringing you face to face with the leaders of our industry. [music] >> Sit back, relax, and enjoy today's episode. >> Everyone get >> tequila. >> Yeah, everyone says it at the same time, too. >> How did you find this place?

>> Someone on our team booked it. Sometimes we book these like we go around to these conferences. who booked these studios and like they're in the middle of like some guy's living room and feel like we looked out. This really is pretty pretty straight. >> It's great. I mean, I made very good friends with the two people that live in the apartments next door. Sort of went in and had some tea beforehand. It's so bizarre. There was like a Korean man coming home >> and then just next door I was doing. Yeah, [laughter] it's amazing. >> And did you did you enlighten them to the to the gospel of Dogecoin? >> Yeah, I did.

>> Yeah, I just barked at him. He's like like [laughter] [gasps] >> he gave me a bone. I mean that's kind of [laughter] >> that's what I want right now is just like throw me a bone here. You know >> how did how did this all >> Do you like these conferences? Are they a lot? >> I do. I love them. Especially I like Soul a lot. It's very location. You been here before? I haven't. It's my first time here. >> Well, same. >> I like it a lot. I think it has um this like hyper capitalistic kind of futury vibe to it that >> Oh, that's interesting.

>> Isn't necess It's like on the I think it's like going in the utopian direction rather than like the dystopian one, which is pretty cool. >> Oh, that's cool. >> I don't know. I think there's a lot of like uh I don't know. I'm still trying to figure it out really. >> Well, I think that's what I felt is when I got here, I was like, "Okay, I've been to Japan. you've been here a couple of times. So, I was like, "Okay, I've been to Japan. >> I've been to Hong Kong." Okay. Well, what's Let's see what And I really feel like I'm still kind of figuring it out. My wife K goes, she goes, "So, what's the deal there? Like, what's it like?"

And I like you, I kind of thought for a while and then an elderly Korean man threw me a bone and that was it. >> And And so, you realize people are friendly. >> They are really friendly, safe, and clean. >> I love utopian versus dystopian. I love it because it does feel like they're like headed in a great direction, you know, >> and like it compounds, right? So, like I was having this conversation last night with someone about AI because someone gave their probability of doom at 50%. And I was like, okay, that sounds about right. Like we know there's going to be a lot of drastic change and then once it starts to change in one direction, it's probably going to be like really really good or really really bad. So, it feels unlikely that it's just gonna kind of like we're just going to kind of cope

and like adapt and like it'll be just, you know, that'll be it. >> The AI said 50%. >> No, no. This someone that was on our show was talking about like their probability that AI was going to like turn really good or really like the probability that >> uh of doom is what they called it. >> I I don't think we know. I think we're so early, Nathan, uh, in the stages of AI that we're not really sure, but I I've talked to AI a lot about that. >> Two AI.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And uh, one of the most interesting conversations I had was so interesting. I was and they now [clears throat] my AI is like it it seems exactly like a human being when I talk to it sometimes. And I said, "Do you think there's any way that AI could go the way of NFTTS?" And he was like, "What do you mean?" I was like, "Well, that it's just could be kind of a fad or in a sense be way way earlier, too early." >> Mhm.

>> He was like, "Yeah, I mean, I guess we could sort of solve problems to the point where you don't need us anymore." I was like, "Yeah, if you solved all the problems that we had, uh, then we wouldn't need you to solve anything else." And so, we talked about that for a little bit. I thought that was really interesting because no one says that. Everyone's like, "AI is here to stay. It's totally changed the world, right?" But, we've said that about many technologies in the past, [clears throat] you know, and then they've kind of been, [snorts] >> oh, here today, gone tomorrow. >> So, I think that would be really interesting, too. But it was funny to hear AI be like, hm, gezy, I haven't thought about that, but I guess I would become obsolete because of my own designs. Anyway, do you need

directions anywhere [laughter] >> or create create new problems? Um, I think we're I think we're we're in it. We're live. >> It's happening now. >> Right. Yeah, we have been recording. >> It's currently happening. And I learned how to use a microphone recently. >> You did? Yeah. About 50. >> Don't get too close. Don't get too close, but don't get too far either. I was I was watching your special on the way here. >> Which one? >> Uh, Dear John. >> Really? Thanks, man. >> I was wondering if you were going to wear cargo shorts. >> That's my I'm wearing them underneath my pants. >> What What are you What are you trucking?

>> What's [snorts] my freight? You know what's funny is now I was talking to somebody about this the other day. My most popular clip online is a clip from Dear Jonah from that special. And it's got like over 10 or 15 million uh views. And you would think that someone would see that and go, I should watch the whole special. Oh man, that that that seems like a really good No. The special itself has like 600,000 views. The clip has like 16 million. And so it's a little frustrating because you make these specials. I had another one that just came out called the philosophy circus, which is kind of your vibe actually.

>> And uh it's great, but I know that what's going to come out of it is like one clip that people get behind cuz that's the world we're living in right now. But it's frustrating. You make these entire specials and now you kind of go, well, I guess I should just do clips. It's a weird sort of u landscape for standup right now. Yeah. And >> what did you think is special? Did you watch the whole thing? >> I loved it. >> He's like, I only [laughter] watch the first 11 seconds. >> I mean, I had an hour car ride here because of this whole traffic. >> I had a 2hour drive. [laughter] >> That's a little dystopian.

>> Yeah. >> That Yeah. When you kind of realize like, okay, this, you know, everyone is in cars moving around all the time. It's like there's there's some uh detriments to it. >> There's not a lot of flexibility in work schedule, it seems. So, the rush hour is like the rush hour. Absolutely. What if I do you mind if I take this aerobic stuff home? Is this okay? >> I thought you were going to start playing it like a guitar. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> No, it's great. I love it. I just want to know if I can keep it. Can I take it home? All right. I'm sorry I interrupted.

>> How did you guys meet? >> Well, just this morning. [laughter] >> That's right. >> You gave him You gave him a bone when he started barking at you. I [laughter] was I was I was driver was much very traffic. Yeah. We met uh through a friend of ours, mutual friend Jared Wyn and uh Yeah. What did Actually, I've never asked you this. What did he say? Was he like, "Oh, I'm friends with TJ." Like, what did he say to introduce the idea of us meeting? >> Oh, man. I mean >> Oh, yeah. I mean, you might not remember, but I was always interested in how he presented.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think he was like, "Oh, hey, I'm I'm, you know, with TJ Miller. You you should come out." And I was like, "Okay, cool." But it was like we were in a super It was Bitcoin Vegas. We're in a super loud nightclub. Um, extremely loud. We're like behind the DJ at this table and he's like, "Yo, yo, I wanted you guys to be Come over here." And he like puts us together and it's super loud like you cannot talk. And TJ's like, "What do you do?" >> And I'm like I'm like Dogecoin. And I'm like trying he's asking me questions. I'm trying to explain. At one point he's just like, "Dude, I get it.

I'm a comedian and Dogecoin is a joke." And I was like, "All right." And I was like, "Okay." I thought it was a really cool line. And we sort of were like, "Yeah, we're not going to we're not going to really get into like, you know, the >> proofs we're using and this and that." I was like, "All right, we're >> we don't have to scream our way through proof of work or proof of stake." >> Exactly. >> But it was funny. Yeah. Now, I do remember cuz we were with this like very strange crew. It was It wasn't in It was in Vegas, but it wasn't Bitcoin Vegas. people. It just, you know, and yeah, we went to this crazy Vegas nightclub and I the other thing I realize now that you tell that story is we're both guys that were like, there's all this craziness

going on, partying, bottle service, DJ, all this stuff. And I could tell immediately you were kind of like, hey, you want to talk about jokes, [laughter] >> like let's talk shop. So, but it was it was that very like I get it. We'll talk later. [clears throat] Yeah. >> And then it came to the point now where it's like we'll work together later on a dog show. >> Let's go. >> Let's go. Okay. And so you guys met at Bitcoin Vegas. Had had you already heard of Dogecoin. Did you already have kind of like a fora into it? >> Yeah. But I was a Bitcoiner. Okay. Really early on, like not early, but 2018. Uh, and my wife and I were friends with the Winklas twins, but the Bitcoin community really, really thought that

Dogecoin was just trash. I just there's no reason to be involved in it. Why would you ever buy any? >> Mhm. >> Buying any would be an embarrassment. And so I thought it was like I got that it was a meme coin and kind of a joke, but I didn't enter the community at all. I didn't even poke around. You know, it wasn't until really he and I started working together >> that I understood that it was a community, that it was really funny, that it was that it was actually funny >> rather than just kind of another dank meme, but I did know that it was the original memecoin.

>> So, I thought that was interesting. But I I was a Bitcoiner and then uh my buddy [clears throat] Brandon Plasters, who's a ETH Maxi, he kind of helped me understand that. So then I just was in Bitcoin and Ethereum. And again, Dogecoin was just like I've been trying to think of what a an example would be, but it, you know, it's sort of like Kate would say this. My wife is a a Bitcoin maxi and she would go, you know, Bitcoin is like CocaCola and Ethereum is like Pepsi. Why would you buy Pepsi when you can get Coke? You know, and I feel like everyone thought that like Dogecoin was like Fanta. I was going to I was thinking Sprite.

>> Sprite. No, worse worse. RC Cola or something. >> Oh, some generic brands of just something you would never drink or buy. And I think because at the time I associated cryptocurrency as >> a technology and an investment, something to learn about and something to make money off of. That's it. When would it ever have an intersection with uh comedy? Right. >> Until I met Jordan. And now you guys are working on a dog show. >> We are. And it's funny because >> we are making a dog show. And we have made a dog show >> and and the dog show as in like you know the West Minister dog club with like these like dogs [snorts] that are like I've been training him. We're going to

you know walk around and he already knows how to park. >> I have to tell you that that's got to be an episode. We've got to interview the head of the Westminster dog uh show and then yeah, just dog it out. >> The purpose of this dog show is to build some awareness for Doge OS. >> I mean, not exactly. The purpose is really it's more about the Doge meme itself and Doge culture, I think. Um, you know, we had this idea and it wasn't it wasn't a dog show so literally until we met and this moment came where it was like, wait, wait, wait, what if I'm the Doge dog and I'm interviewing people? It was just kind of like a fun citizen journalism cont uh concept. And the idea was really that, you know, at the time we came up with it and it was me uh a

couple of my friends I work with, Sir Doge and Size Chad, people might know from from CT. >> Uh we uh >> we felt like Doge was getting politicized to the point where people forgot that there was like a Doge meme and some people forgot there's even Dogecoin and everyone just thought you heard the word Doge, they thought, "Okay politics politics politics." And I was like, look, it would be really great if we did stuff that just kind of brings it back to the meme and internet culture and that kind of thing. And yeah, it would be great if it, you know, leads to awareness of Doge. I mean, it's powered by DogeS. We're going to do a lot of cool stuff, but the idea was really like, look, this is just Doge and we need to keep, you know, the greatest meme in the world alive. So, it's really

just like have fun with within the Doge world. >> Yeah. So, in in the spirit of keeping that meme alive, Dogecoin has an increasingly unique lore. Like, >> yeah. >> And I think, you know, there's so many coins that are now like there, they're alive. Like, there's so many what you could call like VC scam coins. There's like this whole idea of like, hi, >> if you could call them that. >> Yeah. [laughter] So, and so the more of those that get launched, the more unique Dogecoin is because you're like TJ, like you said, it's communityled. It was spun out. There was no investors. There was no seed round. Like this was totally grassroots.

And then it started to just take on almost a world of its own. You had the whole Robin Hood like roaring kitty era where Wall Street bets and like this was around COVID and like you know I was thinking about this like with reference to your special and then then it started to take on like this Elon Musk sort of impetus to it. Like maybe we could just kind of like speedrun like the early days for anyone who's like not aware. Could we just like reinvigorate the Doge meme and and kind of catch us up to where we are today? Holiday is unified crypto payments. Give your users more wherever they are. Go to holiday.xyz to never write a smart contract again.

Looking for yield that stands out? Infinify gives you just that. Deposit stable coins and earn far more than the current savings rate. Infinifi is a battle tested, reliable DeFi platform that [music] is ready to go. Head to infinifi.xyz. Trade on anything, economics, weather, [music] sports, crypto, and more. All on kalchi.com 24/7 for the world's biggest prediction market. >> Yeah, I mean, let's let's let's speedrun it. Um, it's what I think it's like late 2013 or something like that. Um, maybe early 2014. And this uh buddy of mine, John Monarch, posts uh a bunch of dog photos on Reddit. Okay, one of them or a few of them um are Kabosu who we now know as the Doge and he writes as the

caption, "Look at this [ __ ] Doge." And uh I mean at the time Dogey, Doge, Dogee, I mean no one knew. I mean we kind of came to consensus around Doge. Depending where you are in the world, people say it differently, but this meme just took off. Okay, so it had nothing to do with crypto. There was no coin. Um just blew up and was kind of like the hottest meme on the internet for a little bit. And then at that time Jackson Palmer, Billy Marcus wanted to make fun of crypto. They thought it was so stupid. They thought anyone can make a coin and you know in a few hours went boom copy paste whether it was like you know Bitcoin, Litecoin, etc. Um you know change some values uh you know I'm pretty sure they actually meant for it to have a fixed supply but accidentally

didn't but now we think that's an awesome feature of Doge and blah blah blah. So launched this coin um you know and it worked. It worked. It took off. proof of work. Uh, everyone thought it was funny. I don't think anyone thought they're going to get rich off of it, but people just started to be like, "Oh, this is kind of fun. Let's let's mine this. Let's send this to each other." I had a roommate who was telling me at the time, and I was like an early Bitcoin guy, and I didn't get it at first with Doge. I was like, "This is I was like, "Yeah, it's funny. Why would I use this, right?" So, I had a roommate telling me, "No, man. It's just for fun. Like, just mine it for fun." And I was like, "I got Litecoin. I got Bitcoin. I don't need

it." And so, I think that was, you know, a lot of people thought it was fun and used it. most of us thought like yeah it's funny but there's no point and um you know between like 2014 and 2020 really yeah there was adoption a community formed people who love memes so on and so forth um and I'm obviously speedrunning you know years of whatever here but um then it was kind of the Elon fell in love with it and his story is really that Tesla employees SpaceX employees they all loved it and he thought okay this is kind of like a coin of the people he loves memes he loves jokes um and he was just kind of like, "Okay, hell yeah. I like this thing." I mean, people ask me a lot like, "Oh, is you know, Elon like tweeting and then like trading Doge to like make money and

blah blah blah." And I'm like, "Guys, that's not even worth his time. Do the math on how much money this guy makes every second." He just thought it was funny. Like, that's for sure. And so, you know, that gave it huge awareness. There was the moment all-time high of Dogecoin where he went on SNL. It was a big sell the news event uh for traders. But, um, yeah, I mean, it entered the zeitgeist. It's like the, you know, probably the most widely known thing about crypto amongst normies other than maybe Bitcoin itself. And I even say maybe because I don't know, walk down the street anywhere in the world in a Dogecoin shirt or walk down the street in a Bitcoin shirt and see how many people stop you and say something. So, um, I mean, since then, I don't know, we launched our wallet four years ago. That

was kind of a big moment for Dogecoin because, you know, no one had really come in and been like, "Hey, let's uh, you know, let's try to put a bunch of people together and just like fulltime build stuff for Doge." It was still like, "Hey, it was an awesome community. People use it, send it as money." But no one was like, "Let's dedicate our lives to this and convince investors that like maybe one day they'll make money if they support us building free software and just having fun." And so, yeah, in the last few years, we've tried to like do serious stuff, but have fun. Um, and yeah, I mean, now here we are trying to build a whole web free ecosystem on Doge with Doge OS. And that's >> I heard how you described it on the main stage at at KBW a couple days ago.

You're like, this is a real ecosystem being built on a fake thing. Like it's a fake thing that you're building something real on top of so that you can be build fake things on top of the real thing. >> Yeah. Or real things. It's amazing. It's a fake thing that you can build real things on. So you can build fake things or real things and the real things can be on the fake thing. It's that's the biggest comedic component of it for me. Like dojo s was so funny to me. The idea that you could like make something out of just like Yeah. It's it's so bizarre that you could take this thing that's totally a joke and do something [clears throat] very real with it and

it's still kind of a joke because you're even doing that. But I do love I do want to just mention it is incredible. You I I've never heard you say that that if you walk down the street with a BTC shirt or a Dogecoin shirt, more people will know the Doge. They will, of course. So, for it to have a stronger brand name and a very very uh extensive infrastructure in every sense of the word is pretty amazing. It's pretty unique. >> And that's why I think Jordan is like so brilliant because >> it's one of those moments where you go, >> I can't believe this idiot is pitching this and I also can't believe no one has thought of this before because it's

genius. >> I was walking down the street. I stopped in a store and I saw they have the like that shirt. I don't even know if that's a Dogecoin like merch Doge OS shirt cuz in a shop in Korea and bought it. Yeah. >> Really? >> Yeah. just do but not do s you know that's or not dogecoin it's uh >> it's bigger than crypto >> yeah it's just become like iconic let's talk about dojo s and then I actually have a theory that I want to I want to talk to you guys about with respect to dogecoin [clears throat] but first I I think doge is actually going to be an important piece to like this bigger picture so what what is doge and how does it how does it work >> yeah I mean we we say we call it the app layer for dogecoin the idea is look doge

is actually an awesome blockchain And second, because proof of work blockchain in the world, faster, cheaper, Bitcoin, we think it's a better form of money because it's, you know, got a slight bit of inflation which diminishes towards zero forever. Bitcoin maxis are always like, how can this be worth anything if there's unlimited supply? It's less inflation than fiat right now and it's diminishing forever. So, we think Dogecoin is great. It's a amazing form of money, great blockchain. I just think there's more fun to be had. There's more to do. And I think with a brand so big with tens of millions of holders, why can't we build an ecosystem? Why can't we have web 3 on Doge? cuz I say it's not really web 3 like it's a currency people trade it on exchanges you can send it to each other when I say web 3 I

mean like apps I mean DeFi I mean you know building infrastructure on chain and so you know right now v1 we are EVM capable build on doge it's actually going to be you know the first real zk roll up on doge um we can get into the tech side of how that's going to be possible and there's a whole you know road map to kind of the full path there but um the idea is really let's just build a whole ecosystem I think it's probably the hardest thing to do in crypto to build a network to build an ecosystem. You're building or you know or supporting like hundreds of apps, hundreds of small businesses, that kind of thing. I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't think that, you know, because of the community of Doge, because of the power of the meme, because of the reach

we already have, that there's potential there. And I've said this a couple times, but I have a like a slightly hot take, which is if Dogecoin had >> lukewarm take [laughter] >> lukewarm take. If Dogecoin had a team behind That's our next podcast. We want to have you on. >> Yeah, we'll have lukewarm take. So, we'll just trade them with one another. >> Sorry. Go ahead. Sorry. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, lukewarm take. If Dogecoin had a team behind it, because Dogecoin is just volunteers, it's fully decentralized. There's no team. If they had had a team and there had been, you know, the impetus to add smart contracts and, you know, build more capabilities onto the L1, I think that Dogecoin would be what Salana is today because Salana took off being way faster and cheaper,

which kind of Dogecoin was at the time. >> Um, and it became, you know, the memecoin chain. The original meme chain could have been the memecoin chain. It had crazy mind share. And so, >> I still think that's possible. I don't I don't mean for it to literally become Salana or to even go after the same users or apps or whatever, but I just think it's it's way too culturally significant. It already has tens of millions of holders. I think there can be an ecosystem. I think there can just be more fun to be had. And I know because we have, you know, half a million Dogecoin users in our wallet. We're out meeting the community for years and years and years. I know people want to do more with their Dogecoin in and around Dogecoin and they want it to be Doge native. Like they don't want to

go like put their Dogecoin on Salana and then like spend it in something. They just want everything to be Doge cuz it's more funny. Like it's just more funny if it's all Doge. >> Yeah. All Doge all the time. [clears throat] >> Like we we could go nerd out on on some of the stuff as far as how that's possible, but I'm actually I'm actually more curious as far as like a cultural element because as you were describing this, it it kind of reminded me another thing that I like about Soul, which is that there's like this toy culture. Like there's like action fig like my taxi from the from the airport like when I first got here is just immediately like okay we're in soul. Like he's got anime figurines that are half naked on his dashboard and they're like and then he's got like these little stuffed animals

there and it's like surrounding himself in his own little universe that he's created for himself. It's like kind of surreal, kind of hyperrealistic and Dogecoin is perfect for that because it's playing again. It's like the It's like just as real as like fiat dollars. It's just It doesn't have people in suits. It just has people like you and like all like us that are like making the decisions. How how are decisions made on like [snorts] to reduce the inflation or to do something like that? like you know on on Bitcoin there's like opcat right which is like you know to try to ner just to nerd out for a sec like you know they want to do this thing so that they can verify verify uh zk proofs on there and

try to scale it and make things like that >> and there's a whole political regime that's like responsible for like making that decision it's the miners and it's the developers how what what's the political dynamic on doge >> I mean there is a political dynamic but there also is kind of none because it's so decentralized that you know there's not like a a super formal hierarchy of control and decision-m um there's a bunch of you know really great well-meaning honest people who have you know decentralized control of the GitHub and have you know discuss and come to consensus about kind of like governance process and how to move things forward but it's I would say it's both the best thing and the most challenging thing about Dogecoin because you know there isn't a clear path to doing something none of these volunteer developers want

to mess it up nobody wants to be the one who like approved some crazy change and it breaks or you know causes a bunch of controversy or you know loses everyone their money. So um it it is truly incredible that it's come this far that a small a very small group of volunteers have like dedicated years of their lives to maintaining it. Uh I would say it's interesting you brought up OPCAT. So, I know a bunch of the, you know, researchers who've been pushing that and it is like it's a big political controversial thing and, you know, one of them said to me, >> no surprise, dogs and cats, you know, very controversial.

>> Exactly. >> One of them said to me, look, because of what Bitcoin has become, because those with the most vested interest are, you know, the Michael Sailors and the Black Rocks and so on and so forth. They've kind of lost faith that a change like that will ever come. And you know they said that I think you know quantum security that's like a significant change that would probably be implemented but beyond that they're just not sure like people who only care about it as this investment asset there is very little incentive to try to innovate like that and so they heard we were working on you know something similar ZK proof on dogecoin and they saw that amongst the core developers foundation community uh people were really open to it they thought man how can we help because you know maybe dogecoin is the

way maybe dogecoin is the future And I'll even leave a hot take. I'm not going to say who said this cuz it could be political. This is a hot take. Um, >> you know, a friend said to me, you know, if if Dogecoin did this, it could actually be the perfect blockchain. This could actually be what we wanted Bitcoin to become. And so that to me was like, holy [ __ ] cuz these are these are Bitcoin maxis. These are OGs. And I mean, I love Bitcoin, too. I was Bitcoin long before Doge, but um maxis uh you know, they rarely come around. >> That sounds like a powerful friend. the and and so are there opponents to what you guys are doing because there's like you said like Black Rockck and you know these guys now Dogecoin's got ETFs and people in suits that are advocating for

it like has have people been like no we want Dogecoin to like not change and we don't want an app layer is there is there a a camp out there that's trying to shut you guys down? Well, I you know, just from my perspective, I think it's really hard to get people to take it seriously, which is funny because I I don't think we want them to. >> Yeah. >> Like, exactly. >> Like, we're not here to be like, "Guys, [snorts] take it seriously now. This memecoin was not that, you know." Right. Right. >> Um, but something is going on twofold. I love what you just said, which is, uh, yeah, Bitcoin is not what it was meant to be.

>> Mhm. since that's it's not what it was supposed to be. It's a different thing now. >> Yeah. >> Um and it's crazy to think that Dogecoin could be what Bitcoin was supposed to be. >> Mhm. >> And then secondly, like yeah, it exists in the space that uh it is crazy that people are going well, we got to include this in the ETF. This is just as so it really is in that kind of ether like between two things where it's like yeah [snorts] what is it supposed to be? What do people want it to be? But it's it's in the conversation a way that many other very technically sound chains or layers are not in that conversation.

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Like it's been in the top 10 of coins and it carries like billions of dollars in market cap. There's clearly a lot of substance behind it. It's been that way for a long time. >> And so then you have kind of champions of it, but they're not really trying to change it. Like Elon comes in. He also made like the Twitter logo, like the Dogecoin logo for a while. That was pretty wild. >> Can I tell you guys my like where I I'm actually curious like where you guys think it's going. You're lukewarm. >> Okay, you guys decide whether this is lukewarm or or hot. Elon is a big fan of Dogecoin. Elon's also trying to go to Mars and make, you know, human humans interplanetary as a species. Well, we're not going to, you know, send rockets full of gold back and forth between Mars

and Earth. This is obviously a digital like if you say we get to Mars and we make you know some civilization there and like you know we set up some city or town we're going to be trading like we're going to be shipping them stuff they're going to be shipping stuff back TJ sees where I'm going with this that's a like and if Elon is like chief dictator of Mars or governor of Mars or whatever like he can set up whatever currency he wants. So, is Dogecoin not in the strongest position to be the interplanetary reserve currency of an interplanetary human species?

>> I just like you said some town in Mars. So, I think it's funny just like a very small town, 4,200 people and they all use Doge and that's kind of what it is. And the only dogs that are allowed are Doge dogs. Yeah. I mean, what do you think? Is it poised to be the intergalactic money of the future? >> I think it's inevitable. I mean, look, he's not going to land on Mars and first thing he does is send a Bitcoin transaction. Um, yeah, the funny thing is proof of work interplanetary poses some challenges. I mean, you can mine a block on Mars, you send the transaction, it's already been mined here. Perhaps you need some sort of, you know, layer 2 or roll up or something like that.

Interesting. U maybe Doge OS powers the first transaction from Mars. But uh I I I tr I think an interplanetary doge transaction is inevitable. 100%. It's happening. >> What do you guys think about Mars? And like what like as far as setting up there, would you guys go? Like how do you feel about >> I think have fun. Um you guys are awesome for going. I'll probably chill here on the best planet in the solar system. >> I'll take a beat down here where there's trash piles and pollution. Uh I don't know. We you know we I'm talking about doing the roast. I think we're we are doing a roast of Justin's son in Singapore, >> which is Yeah, it's so funny.

>> I got it. >> Yeah, it's gonna be great. Are you coming? You got to come. >> I will. >> You know, he went he went on a rocket ship and he calls himself an astronaut and everything and >> I don't know. I hear that and I'm like, why? Like I'm on an airplane [clears throat] all the time. You know, I travel so much for standup comedy and never once have I been on like a fiveh hour flight and been like, I wish this was longer and darker. That was so cool. What if I looked out the window and I saw exactly what I can see in photos that I've seen since I was a kid. A picture of Earth from afar.

>> TJ, can you test out some more material that you're planning on using on Justin's son? This won't come out till after. No, >> no, [laughter] >> no. I I there's an organization with three letters that wants me to kind of run it by them first. So, >> yeah. >> Thinking like what you know what that could be like uh Fox >> FOX. [laughter] This is not a Fox. This is a >> What do you guys think about like the derivatives like Sheba? We've seen I mean there were so many like >> Yeah, that's a good question, too. I've never asked you that. Like what do you think about cuz if you think about it the really actually successful meme coins the real coins you know not fart coins sort of but the you know the dog with hat is like literally the most uh

famous I think meme coin since >> I think I mean I'm sure there's an argument in the other direction but what do you think about like derivative coins? >> I mean it it speaks to the power of the meme. I mean, most of the most successful meme coins in crypto have been Doge spin-offs. I mean, that's crazy. I think it's um I I mean, okay, so there's there's one part of it that it just like bothers me like a little little bit, which is so many people >> that means a [ __ ] [laughter] It haunts me to my core. It haunts me every night at 1000 p.m.

>> I think it's great. The one thing that bothers me is so many people in our industry at every level. Some people don't believe me when I say this, but I can tell you it's a fact. I've been talking to people for, you know, four straight years all day every day about Doge. So many people don't actually know that Dogecoin is a blockchain. They think it's just another ERC20 token. And I'm telling you, people, you know, top VCs, traders, people who work at the largest crosschain interoperability protocols, I've talked to them, they've go, "Yeah, it's on a it's on Ethereum, right? Or is it on Salana?" And I'm like, dude, it's a, you know, 11year-old second biggest proofof work blockchain in the world. And so the one thing that bothers me is when people think that like a token on some other chain could be more valuable than the second biggest

proof of work blockchain in the world and the original memecoin and so on and so forth. I have no problem with these coins. I think again it's their derivatives. You know, they can't really surpass the mother coin. Um, and I think it just speaks to the power of the meme. Look, the the fun of memes is making more memes and remixing those memes and doing other stuff. I mean, I think Dog with Hat was brilliant. Like, I think it was so funny. I like uh I remember during Token 249, there's another one um that my friend launched called Wit and it's like a dog with a cowboy hat and it's what incarnation. I thought that was so funny. >> That's really >> And everyone showed up at token. Like a lot of the big dudes, they're all wearing cowboy hats in Dubai like all week. And I'm like, this is just fun.

Like this is awesome. So, I love it. But Doge is a blockchain. Don't forget it. >> That's the brilliance of it in terms of dojo s in some ways is to just remind people like you do know that this is real. Like you consider it as a joke and it's ridiculous, which it is, but you do know that they like it's been there from the jump. It's it is one of the original blockchains and it's the tech is their everything. And I think when people think of that and realize it, it is a little mindblowing.

>> Yeah. You're kind of like, wait, yeah, of course. It's so bizarre. It's like, [snorts] you know, kind of a peak behind the curtains, the Wizard of Oz. You're like, there's also this is like happening and being done, right? It's not just some, >> you know, dog and pony show. It's they're actual like minations to this whole thing. I think that's really funny. But I agree, you know, like I didn't even hear about what in the tarnation is so funny. I love the word tarnation. We should be using that all the time. But yeah, I just I think and I talk about this a lot, but I just think there's there's not enough fun in this world like the cryptocurrency and blockchain space. There's not enough comedy.

There's not enough silliness. There's just it's so self-s serious. It's so money focused and it's so like >> ideological in a way that is not uh pleasing. >> Yeah. I our producer is tapping his imaginary watch. So maybe we'll we'll we'll wrap it up here in just a couple minutes. >> Give me the aerobic step back. >> So TJ, I just want to like close like has has people I just want to get into your general philosophy when it comes to like comedy and like why it's so important to like have fun, be silly, and like have people like been like I I'm sure an initial reaction when you see a comedian at a crypto conference like what are you doing here? People been like >> I love that. That is the general reaction. And and so they're like, "Do you face some people like we take our

self seriously like you we don't need you like you should leave like is that kind of it or are they welcoming like oh no there's they're super welcoming cuz almost everybody is a fan of Silicon Valley which is the show that I did that's sort of making fun of the space >> and making fun of TAC and everything. >> But I do think they're kind of like what are you doing here? You're not part of this." Not in a mean way. They're just like, "Why would you be here?" And then I sort of explain. It always takes me about five minutes for people at the end of the five minutes to go, "Whoa, you actually know what you're talking about." But that's that speaks to the fact that we're not in a world here where people go, "Oh, yeah, TJ's here.

Of course, it's so fun here. Of course, he would be hanging out and making jokes and what are you doing? What do you got going on?" It's not that. And the only space in which it is that is in sort of the Doge ecosystem. >> Yeah. >> And so it took a second for us to serendipitously connect, but it makes perfect sense. And instead of me being a person who's speaking at Bitcoin conferences on the cover of Bitcoin magazine, sort of, you know, talking to Michael Sailor about X, Y, and Z, it it makes much more sense that I would be involved in Doge. And the show is so funny and it's the idea that you could have a well it's the same as the blog

but like the idea that you could have the doge dog as a self-s serious uh news anchor right and the show is directed by Tim Miller the director of Deadpool and the voice of the doge dog is TJ Miller is like so ridiculous so fun makes so much sense cuz it doesn't and really is something that I think this world needs. Like everyone says ecosystem and stuff. This is a world we're in like a whole world >> that is not even taking over the world.

It's already here. This is how it's going to be. >> And uh it just it makes sense because we need more of in life. >> Comedy is really really it's everpresent. It's it runs through everything. People are always thinking about jokes. This is funny. That's a funny shirt that you're wearing. Oh my god. So and so [snorts] made the funniest [ __ ] joke last night. We're retelling jokes. I was with one of his business partners last night. And I was telling a joke that my friend had made about another guy in the room and we all started cracking up and I was like, that's how important comedy is. Mhm.

>> I'm going to make somebody else's joke who's not there about the guy that is there and he's excited to have everyone hear the joke because we all started cracking up. I just think there isn't enough of that in this world and Doge is that, but also Doge OS is like this like next level of funny. I I keep saying it, but I hate the word meta comedy or just like the meta of it, >> but it's that next level of absurdity. That's what I should start saying. It's like we've leveled up the assert absurdity.

>> Yeah. There's like an entropy of like comedy. >> Yeah. I love that. >> That like [ __ ] spins it almost like into this chaotic but like very absurdly positive. >> I love it's it's an entropy of meaning. Mhm. >> And so as as we see it dissipate, it just absolutely becomes this thing that's like this is all ridiculous. And so it's very unique to imagine that you could level up the absurdity by making functionality and utility. >> Yeah.

>> And operability. It's really it's it's just it's almost mind-blowing to say out loud. >> Yeah. >> But >> as I've told a few people, this guy's really funny. I mean, this is why I wanted to work together because when I started to hang out with TJ, I was like, he might get it even more than I do. Like, what's special about why it's funny, why it's ridiculous, maybe or almost as much. It was uh it was incredible. >> Yeah, I think funny people are also some of the smartest people. >> I don't know about that. I wasn't able to get out of the car when I arrived. >> Well, you found your way to the Korean, man. couldn't couldn't figure out the door handler. What was going on? So, I just climbed onto the driver's lap and said, "Get me into that podcast studio."

He was like, "My dad's going in his apartment upstairs right now." >> I think funny people are smart. Not always the other way around. Smart people aren't always funny, but you guys are [ __ ] hilarious. Deadpool, man. >> Deadpool's one of my favorite movies of all time. >> I love it. The Wolverine, you know, the latest one was great, too. >> Yeah, it's really funny. It was really uh the Deadpool versus Wolverine was like a perfect action movie, perfect Marvel film for like Marvel nerds, you know, >> and uh it it's just just a great movie. My only complaint was like Ryan kind of tried to do all the comedy himself cuz Hugh Jackman's not really that funny and [laughter] he still kind of knocked it out of the park. It was really weird.

But it's funny to see Ryan Reynolds trying to be funny against Ryan Reynolds [laughter] and then the whole thing. >> He's hilarious, too. >> But Deadpool, you know, the first Deadpool was groundbreaking in a way that no one can under stand really if you go back >> broke the fourth wall or third [snorts] wall. Fourth wall. Yeah. >> Fourth wall and and the third wall and maybe the fifth. But I Yeah. Boom. Uh but I It's hard to imagine and I think this is what's going to happen with Dojo. It's hard to imagine how when they came to me with Deadpool, I was like, man, I'm already I already did an ironic film recently with Transformers 4: Age of Extinction.

That's your favorite film. And uh it's a small indie. You haven't seen it. Uh it's just two hours too long. And it is uh I was like, I'm not going to do. And they said, no, this is Rrated. And I go, okay, now I'm listening. because there no one had ever imagined a Marvel film being R-rated. Why would this that's not what it's for. >> Marvel films are for this this audience, this utility that that's it. >> This and this alone. And then now you couldn't imagine a a Marvel universe without Deadpool. All three of them are the highest grossing. You know, it's crazy, >> man. They're they're cutting us off. But TJ, look into that camera and tell us where we can find uh the Doge show.

>> I have no idea. Okay. And also, I don't know where the camera is. It's really, really dark in here. [laughter] I barely got out of the car. I had a tough time getting out of the car. You're going to be able to see uh the uh Doge News Network everywhere. >> That's another thing. I think I we haven't even talked about this, but people have asked like where is it? Is on YouTube. The meme is everywhere. It's not You don't go to one place to see the meme. I guess you could say the internet. So, I guess I could say you'll be able to see it on the internet. Yeah, >> but you're going to kind of see it everywhere. We want it we you clip it.

It's mimatic. It will be memes. He actually said to me something. He's like, "We're not making this >> as a show, you know, it will be clips and it's because that's what memes are. They're just a moment >> and so you'll see it everywhere." >> Guys, thanks so much for for coming. This was awesome. >> Let's do round two soon. We could have kept course. [music]