Friend.tech Debate: Innovation or Implosion? | Ansem

Transcript

why does it have to be a token that is traded 24 7 365 and it just I think it's distracting for fans that like might be demoralized it's like it's what's happening with like a lot of nft collections like what happens when the price goes down 90 does that mean that you suck as an artist I think it's really your dopamine system goes on hyperdrive once you start seeing your token pump and you're like wow like of course it feels great if your token's up 10x or up only like great yeah

but markets do what the markets do and like there are cycles and Bubbles pop and so what happens if your share price is down 90 I think this will probably be one of our most controversial episodes we've ever done in the last like two three years um basically friendtech has taken over the narrative more than anything I've probably probably more than anything I've seen since nfts in 2021 and then before that uh you know D5 in 2020 with D5 summer um and so just want to bring on ansem Amsterdam uh ansem is not one of the founders but is was kind of the first person I saw posting on Twitter about this back I think like three weeks ago but you know one of the first days of August um like pre-launch posting about this

and I think right now you're the top at least out of my friends you're like number five on the so-called leaderboard so answer Mountain welcome to the show um yeah pumped to have you here yeah thanks for having me on guys I should be fine yeah yeah all right so let's uh let's maybe start from the top just like what what is friend Tech in your mind and maybe actually even before that like when did you first hear when did friendtech and like racer and stuff get on your radar um I saw it on my timeline probably like a month or so ago um didn't really know what it was I just like saw the tagline I was like you'll be able to make a token associated with your um profile like friend Tech buyer

friends um I thought it was interesting um but I've seen like the social tokens narrative kind of get more popular over the past year so and it's been kind of building up but there have never been any platform directly other than bigcloud um where you like had a token associated with your online likeness so I'd say probably a month ago and then it just started kind of building um and I was already looking at Bass and like the applications there because coinbase I think is going to do a really good job with their L2 just because of how much retail exposure they already have through their centralized exchange um and this year in crypto I've been kind of looking for which consumer applications I think are going to be that next level outside of just the D5 Primitives that are really gonna get

um on board more people other than just the djans that are already on chain trading everything um so I was kind of looking in both of these areas just kind of popped off pretty quickly a couple weeks ago nice man did you did you meet the founders did you meet uh who are the founders shrimp and uh and racer and stuff did you make it and pancake did you meet these guys or no nah I mean I've met pancakes in person a few times um like at some conferences in Europe Lisbon I think um that's the homie I know him pretty well racer I just know from online he's just a [ __ ] poster I never met him um or shrimp but yeah pancakes is cool that's that's the homie so let's just walk through like for anyone that is kind of like waking up or

under a rock like friend Tech it's like big cloud people may not even know what that is so basically you get an invite code and these invite codes were like kind of coming out and a few people are throwing them out there on Twitter so you're lucky enough you get you get on the platform and the first thing it's like it's only mobile uh and the first thing that it asks you to is to connect your Twitter account right to claim your profile right to verify your identity um and I stopped there I said there's like no [ __ ] way that I'm gonna connect my Twitter to this thing it just looks sketch I'm not gonna do it like there's just a lot of downside so I stopped there I got a I got a code like a couple weeks ago

and I haven't gone on the platform but you guys are so bold as to have gone through that flow and so what happens like once you open up this Pandora's Box Magic Kingdom of friend Tech like what do you see Kingdom oh first song okay like I'm just gonna say like well I'll stop I'll resist why don't we just be more objective in this first part of the episode all right um yeah so the first thing you see is like an option to buy your own share um so essentially each person that gets an account like they obviously link it with their Twitter which verifies their their actual person um and then the first like screen is by

your share so you buy your own share it's free um and then so you can buy but it's free yeah the first share is free that's for you to buy okay it's like free this one is deployed on base so like you need to Port over some money in a base to do that yeah you deposit I think they recommended like 0.001 or 0.05 either whatever it was just so you have like for gas fees and stuff um but yeah so you get the buy your own token and once you buy your token then it's available for trading and then everybody else on the app um can trade buy and sell your token can you buy more than one chair then and there no not directly so you can only buy one you can't like load up a bag of your own

chairs no okay you can only buy one before we go any further talk to us about the bridging experience because we've had two episodes on base and apparently bridging is super smooth super easy so can you just comment talk a little bit about that experience yeah the app was pretty straightforward um I like I bridged up to base already from eth um and when I downloaded the app this and just gave you an address to deposit um eat from like to your base address um but then after that after like the first few days of onboarding they also enabled people to just send money from their eth address on mainnet previously it was base you had to have base Eve um but they enabled that functionality

it did all the bridging and everything for you so if you have some Ethan an exchange or in your own wallet like native wallet in ethereum L1 or some other L2 it has to be L1 and you bridge over right um I would like I've actually been recommending folks download this not even not even because they want to play with friend Tech and like you know bet on Anthem or you or something like that but just to see the onboarding experience it's the best ux onboarding experience of anything that I've seen so far it operates as an app so you basically get this you go to friendtech.com you then save it to your home screen so it's basically operating as an app but it allows you to skip the the App Store it bridges for you so you connect your metamask and then you

actually do the trans you deposit the eth and then it does the bridging for you you deposit one time and make do one signature and then you never have to sign again so every transaction after that is uh is like I don't know pre-signed or whatever um and you're basically minimizing like good good ux is like in is is basically just minimizing the amount of times you have to click around somewhere and that allows you to do that um the first thing that I hear is my the first thing in my brain is like security are they compromising on like because they're generating a private key for you right while they're doing all this in the back or or what is happening because if you're depositing into you're not connect like I guess you're connecting your metamask but it's not your friend Tech account has a private

key attached to it and it that's not the one that you're sending your ether correct you know right okay I just won't be clear because this is something that I want to come back to later on in the episode of how easy smooth ux historically in crypto at some point is meant compromising security but we'll save that for later so okay so you bridge your eth over to this thing you buy one chair and it costs you a dollar everyone just a dollar so you need to pay a dollar to get initiated and this thing as soon as you do that the rest of the world can buy your shares how many shares are available what does this curve look like like for the pricing curve for your shares like how does that work

um there's an equation for the the bonding curve I don't know off the top of my head but as uh more people buy the price obviously increases it's kind of like a a parabolic type type of curve um I think that I'm around like 150 holders I want to say and I think my pricing is like 1.8 each um but you can buy multiple shares um instead of just buying one share yeah oh yeah this is the correct so one chair around the team um so so if you're not another user and you want to buy one of your shares because hey you I like you I follow you on Twitter I think you're great you have good takes I'm gonna go and support you for whatever reason and it's going to cost me 1.8 eth per share

all right yeah roughly close to 3 000 bucks so Santa you can see it right here so you can see it right here so if there's so if no one owns ansem there's it costs zero bucks as soon as someone owns one share it's 0.000625 then let's say someone let's say there are like 10 holders and they all hold one share of ansem it goes up to you know 0.006 yeah eight so basically the first guy that buys is like one one cent the tenth guy to buy is like close to is over like 11 bucks as I was yeah it's a linear relationship and then the 20th guy to buy is like you know 45 bucks

and so on and so forth um and so what is the motivation to buy your share and and do you buy one chair do you buy ten like what have you guys been doing um what I've been doing I just think there's like different strategies for it um in my opinion I think that friend Tech can be not just crypto content creators so if you have Founders in other Industries or you've like musicians or artists or athletes that may not be as popular um maybe you want to buy a share um so hold one of their shares and then as they grow and like as they get more popular and more people are more invested in their platform whatever

they're doing um and their share price may go up um or you want access to the information that they have so say somebody's an expert in some field of technology or are in their industry and they want to share information through this chat then you buy their shares you have access to that basically until you decide to sell um and I think we've kind of seen in social media a lot of these creators are trusted by their followings um and you can see with like Elon posting um or switching over X to doing ad revenue and sharing with creators and kind of pushing the subscriber so historically it's been sort of disassociated right you have like you

grow your social media presence be it Facebook Instagram Twitter um and then you monetize in some other manner right you have your sub stack or you have your own website and people but but like the argument that I've heard or historically has how it's worked is people build a social profile that is free and then as soon as people like want to get more of that it's almost like a a gateway drug if you will to their paid content where they monetize um now if you is there a distinction between the number of shares that you have in the level of access that you get or is everyone on the same

like as soon as you have one or a hundred doesn't matter you guys know this nation okay well not currently There's no distinction so something the other thing that we do that uh that Anson didn't talk about yet is like you get what you get access to inside of the group is almost like a telegram chat so like let's say I own ansems like one of anthems I bought ansem uh no matter what price I got it at nobody how many shares I own I get access to like his one-to-one chat basically um and like I think uh these chats by the way it varies so there's some people that are super active and then posting like Non-Stop and some people aren't as active and I think it's kind of seen in people's share price so the people who are more active and responding to people

Non-Stop and back and forth their share price is typically higher um because people feel like they have that closer connection and closer access to them um for me that's one of the big things because I have a good amount of followers on Twitter and I literally can't reply to my DMs anymore because I just get so many of them but I'll have a chat like this and I have a smaller amount of them that I can reply to um so it's easier for me to like filter through some information but yeah it depends on the person honestly someone might look at this mechanism and say oh wait wait a minute if you're critical of this well how's that any different from Twitter right which is allows now to have a subscription right like some big accounts like spectator index and a few others that I have all like now have

like this tweets that are like protected now and if you want to see them you have to subscribe so it's kind of now it's not one-to-one Perfect Analogy but yeah it's it's similar to that I would say that the main difference is that um you also benefit in that person growing their popularity so say you buy you subscribe to somebody when they have like 5K and then they go to 100K followers previously you don't get any access to that like if you're outside or anything oh that's I would say that's the main difference but yeah how active um I guess like when you guys I mean I appreciate it's been just under a month or just a month mostly crypto natives

starting to see some non-crypto native people like there was an NFL player that joined recently presumably other celebrities are going to join soon yeah it's been mostly crypto native guys uh I think it was yesterday Grayson Allen from the Bucks the NBA player joined and then FaZe Banks um from FaZe Clan joined it's like one of the big base plan guys um and he was like posting about it pretty actively on Instagram and then in his chat it's like talking about yeah I'm like super excited about this talk to the team talk to the founders um so for me I I think it's likely that you'll see other people outside of just crypto uh start to join especially since the onboarding is is pretty simple

um there's not really a ton of downside for people who already have these Platforms in other Industries on other on other social media platforms um so I think you'll start to see and it'll be interesting like I guess Hal racer um is like one of the leaderboard compared to people like FaZe Banks or Grayson Allen um because for me it's like racist should be the most important person he's the founder of the app obviously um but it's like going to be interesting to see which I guess fans and which groups of of people um do well I know you're hyper skeptical on this um and like that's an objective question like I'm not being skeptical I'm just asking like questions let me just share my framework for a second It's actually an idea that I talked about with this guy Chris King

back in like 2018 which is you ever are you ever like with friends and you're like yo I was following this Instagram account had like 2 000 followers and like now it's blown up now it's got like 200 000 be like or uh you know you find a song on Spotify or probably on Soundcloud when it's got like 10 000 listens and then like three years later it blows up and then five years later they're touring you're like damn like I was listening to that artist before anyone knew about them I feel like a lot of people probably just had this experience with Fred again um is probably like the most recent but there's no way to bet on that there's no way to be like yo I thought I've Santi and I first talked in 2017 I knew that dude would start smart he started

posting on Twitter I wish I could like bet on this dude um there's no way to do that and I think right now it's like full-blown speculative Mania absolutely insane probably a lot of people get hurt in some way or another but um but like long term it's cool to have a platform that allows you to bet both long and short unlike I don't know just people in general um now there's a bunch of like societal downsides of that that we can talk about I think that's like my mental framework for this one no absolutely look I mean I think uh I think the idea of it is is powerful I'm not like being skeptical of that the thing that um I mean of course we can keep it

anecdotal of like your experience but where I've um in practice I like steam it you guys remember that like you you like it it's like Reddit it's like readable you get upvoted and you make money out of it and then there's a whole body of like studies out there that show that as soon as you it's like behavioral economics writings as soon as you as soon as you introduce a price to things people are less willing to do certain things like for instance like charity a lot of people like would walk your dog or would do certain things without even the notion of thinking that they're going to be compensated for it and as soon as you introduce an element of compensation it really distorts and changes incentives in a way that like the foregone conclusions like just don't

introduce like tangible value to that because a lot of is Goodwill and I think about like my experience in Twitter like I'm not posting like even when I had 50 followers to when I have like over 100 000 followers I don't do it directly to like to like get paid and like now for instance DC investor now apparently you know in order to like get some Revenue sharing from Twitter you have to have over 10 million impressions there's like a criteria of which I'm close to but I'm not there DC investor is and he's like he was tweeting about that experience of like now being paid for some and

first essentially his tweets and I don't know I'm really curious to to get both of your perspective on the idea of like monetizing this thing that you would otherwise and have been doing historically for free um the way I've been thinking about it is I think it's actually incentivizes people to put out more free content um in my opinion because now that people have it is it free though so I'm saying outside of your like platform on whatever it is on on friendtech the content that you're putting out on Twitter or on whatever other platforms that people are reading for free

um I think that since you have that that income stream even if those are people aren't contributing directly to um your like shares on friendtech you also have are going to put out more information to all these other people that are reading it for free um because they know that once you're putting out more content that also is going to incentivize people uh like as your followers go up and like your your content goes up you're putting out more good good stuff um that's probably gonna like have that positive feedback loop on friendtech as well um so that's the way I think about it's like even the smaller accounts like there are a lot of smaller accounts on Twitter with like three 4K followers and their share price is equal to those with like 100k 200k

um and that's because like they have a lot of good content they're putting on Twitter and then it gets boosted um on friend Tech so you can it's good kind of high signal there to see like which smaller accounts are going to blow up or could do well later um and also just like finding good analysts early I think it's interesting in that regard so when you post Jason I want to go to you as well when you post on Twitter or post on friendtech as well no no right okay but people looking at what you're doing on Twitter so like for you can you post outside of this telegram group to the public that may not own your

shares or is everything that is happening all the discourse is happening inside these groups paid wall essentially it happens inside the groups okay so there's nothing that is public like like Twitter it's basically a combination of uh is basically telegram but with paid groups only paid groups I guess in the afternoon yeah in the app yeah got it do you think that at some point they will open it up so that it's a mix of like Twitter with like Twitter DMs like Twitter with paid DMS essentially

I think they might incorporate like a public sort of feed um the explore page is kind of hard to filter through now because it's literally just like everything there's a list of what your friends are doing and there's a list of everything that's happening on the app and it's just like an Explorer basically the people that are buying and selling I think it's very Bare Bones at the moment for sure and they definitely could incorporate some kind of public feed that would be interesting um but I think the chord the core functionality of the app probably won't change does it recognize when you say friends is it the your friends on Twitter that are now registered as well on friendtech or these for are your friend zone the people that you're buying shares of um yeah your friends are like your your holders or people that you have chairs

in got it so I would assume it's like basically no activity if you don't buy shares than anyone else I mean there's a I don't know if you can see my screen Santi but there's like a uh you can see like all your friends on Twitter so like here I'll show you this there'll be like uh it's loading that's what I'm saying yeah yeah recognizes your friends on Twitter right so like see I don't know if you can see that like leaderboard type thing or like this is like an activity feed like if you ever go on like venmo and you can see who's like paying people and stuff it looks very similar to that or I can be like oh like Mika honka solo just bought one share of Matt fibek who's a blockworks research analyst or like okay you know Marlo just sold one share of

John charb um so it's kind of you can see that whole activity feed you know these are these are people well that was my question right because it's people that you follow on Twitter automatically you this activity is populated by that right it recognizes your friend your followers yeah Twitter to then suggest or tell you what other people are doing to incentivize you to go out and like you know go long or short some of these shoes yeah and some Zoom zooming up for a second because I know you've probably spent more time thinking about this than like anyone out there outside of the founders and Paradigm folks who who led the seed round to them what is your kind of I I we'll talk about the bear case in a second um but like what is the bull case for this like what is your like

zero to one moment like if all of this works like how are what's your like mental model for how you're thinking about this long term uh the way I've been thinking about it is there are a ton of industries that have these influencers and have these creators um that have a ton of impacts in whatever their specific industry is and are experts in their field but people historically have had no way of betting on those people doing well or participating in the upside that they have um like in those communities and I think fandom is really really really a big thing nowadays if you look at like music artists uh or Like Rappers or athletes um that's huge and people will pay a ton of money

um whether it's just for like tickets to a concert or like for signing to events um so the way I think about it is like you take somebody like Taylor Swift who has resold concert tickets for upwards of 10K um if she were to have a like a friend Tech group like you would assume that there's going to be people willing to pay whatever premium to get that direct access to her and then she can give access to her shareholders via like meetups uh private meetups or like signing or anything like that um and I think that can happen across multiple different Industries in a way that's never really been done before while also allowing people to benefit in the upside um from the athletes or creators continue to blow up so like say you have a college athlete

um like number one in the nation in high school whatever and they get selected to go to I don't know like you of Alabama and you can buy shares um like as they are whatever getting picked and then they go to the league obviously keep doing well whatever continue throughout their career like that that ability to bet on an individual like early in their whatever their career and then them blowing up has never been possible before um I think it's obviously very difficult to achieve like I'm not saying that's the base case but if they do if they are able to do that it will be crossing a Chasm um not just in crypto but across like multiple different Industries I think that's a really cool scenario that could play out so so you see it as some combination of like

fan groups like subscription fan groups like let's call it like a patreon or only fans combined with um like a longer term like FanDuel DraftKings like like betting on someone's like not on the game that they're playing but like on their career almost right like I know there's there's something called I'm not a huge fantasy football guy but like the dynasty I think it's called where you can draft people but over like multiple years it's not just the one fantasy football season so I already exists uh but yeah similar to that but for everything for like all Industries yeah it's interesting so I'm in disclosures I bought a like a token to disclosure or whatever so I'm in just I like disclosures music so I'm in his thing and he's on the app and I'll just

read something I think it's fine to read from his like so he's got 38 holders and this is what he sent to them he says this whole this is the strategy the entire music industry is going to adopt soon at least for Independent Artists like me subscription-based models for fan clubs basically is where all this goes and he was like saying he's gonna drop like links to pre-release the stuff before it comes out for people um so I think there's there's definitely interesting things you can do with music but yeah maybe flip it what's your like bear case on this the bear case is like anything that's

tradable is gonna have if it goes up too fast it's gonna come down so there's always going to be people that are taking profit if they're up 10x 20x whatever um on their share price especially if they have more than one so and I've looked at my like holders and there's a good chunk of them that only have one share and I think those are the people who are less likely to sell because they obviously are not really trying to trade it um but some people that have like multiple shares I think as your share price goes up there's always going to be people taking profit and when people like there's people taking profit because of how the curve is set up there's always going to be somebody who bought high and then price goes down um so again the case where you have somebody famous

um and say they do something publicly that's not great and then their share price goes down people can lose money on that um so anything where speculation is involved I think you have to be wary of that and that could hurt um the platform in that way but I think that's just like default by anything if you buy and sell yeah I think it's the the best thing about friend Tech is also going to be the worst thing which is um uh the speculative nature of things in crypto is amazing for customer acquisition costs like there's no better there's no marketing plan friend Tech ever could have run that would have been able to onboard there's now a hundred thousand people on friendtech in like two week time and there's no marketing plan that would have that would have accomplished that but that's also the

like toughest thing to manage for anyone who's probably launched a token they've seen this right that's the toughest thing to manage for long-term growth so yeah yeah yeah um Santi how you feeling about friend Tech right now well um I'm not there because I'm not gonna link my Twitter like well I'm not gonna say it what's the concern about linking the Twitter just curious uh historically I think it opens up a vector where it could get compromised right a lot of that whenever you connect something like there have been issues with other apps that you connect to so I'm very sensitive to that

um but I'm noodling on it um I may go on there I don't know Santi zumia from from frantech what is your thought around just social tokens in general because it does feel like this kind of social token thesis is coming back a little bit and do you remember our episode with them icebergy Iceberg yeah icebergy and then Alex like this guy Alex had a social token Way Way Back look income sharing agreements that that's like the the the the the very more basic construct is ice income sharing agreements right people to to go to school they have isas and all this stuff like Lambda school and all this whereby you commit to you know people can buy basically some sort of share in your future earnings potential

and then it's kind of a little bit like that but in a more real times speculative way that makes me uneasy like what happens if I don't know I seemed like can you buy more shares of your own token like can you go out and buy like yeah so like are you earning trading fees based on like however so these are the things that I just I don't know like I'm not like I've been in crypto long enough to just have seen various iterations of

this type of model that have not worked but clout um steemit right um that um it's like algorithmic stable coins it's like fascinating to think about but have a whole set of issues where they haven't worked before but we keep trying I don't disagree with like any of the things that you've said by the way ANSI which is like the idea of like there ought to be a better way for creators to connect with their fans and be remunerated and maybe the fans early fans and adopters also participate in that upside um like it would be cool oh by the way no one's really like asking for it right

Jason to your point like would it be nice to like get credit for being an early dis like discovering disclosure early great yeah absolutely um issue an nft of that that you went to their concert in like some sort of random bar in Brooklyn like why does it have to be a token that is traded 24 7 365 and it just I think it's distracting like for for fans that like might be demoralized it's like it's what's happening with like a lot of nft collections like what happens when the price goes down 90 percent

like does that mean that you suck as an artist and what does that do to the churn of the fan base like I don't know it's just like uh I'm not very bullish on this sector of crypto like I think social is interesting but like social plus like this speculative rage is just makes me uneasy um so look it's going to keep happening these experiments are going to go on but I'm not um this is an area where I'm not really bullish on to be honest and I'm happy to elaborate on any of that but I'm just not uh I think it's there's a lot of enthusiasm

I think it's really your dopamine system goes on hyper Drive once you start seeing your token pump and you're like [Laughter] wow like of course it feels great if your token's up 10x or up only like great yeah but markets do what the markets do and like there are cycles and Bubbles pop and so what happens if your share price is down 90 like Sunday let me let me throw this out to you who's um you love Avicii right

like who doesn't best DJ of all time it's not even a question like not even a question exactly not even exactly not even a question I went to one of his earliest concerts and he was playing in New York and I was there yeah so if so if Avicii dropped like let's say 10 000 nfts those are like back in I don't know 2008 or something like that like those are a completely speculative nature and those would probably operate in the same way that something like like a French a friend Tech chair would operate which is as Avicii's career grows those grow as well and they're 24 7 365 and people can buy them and sell them and flip them and I think anything that has a dollar value associated with ends up becoming a

speculative market like I mean you also I know you buy some watches like that is a talk about a speculative market like the watch Market is insane but that doesn't mean like there shouldn't be a watch Market do you know what I'm saying look I'm not I'm like I'm not anti-market or anti-financialization these things will happen we can't stop them the world just wants to finance like if you can financialize something it will happen like you have these collector like collector markets are huge across one any sort of wine cars all type of luxury goods like you know mementos like you know like Jordan jerseys and Kobe like the stockx like these things are massive people want to collect like we collect stuff and so that inherently

as a price attached to it um so I don't know if I think the distinction is nuanced though between getting an nft having attended a concert I think of it more as of like a something that has a little bit more meat on the bone not just like a share certificate if you will it's like uh it's like a collection right it's like you can go by it's like saying hey I was uh in the Lakers final uh where Kobe played and like you have that ticket or you have the ball or the net or something is that valuable of course there's

there's someone out there who's going to pay a ton of money on that and you can auction it off in Sotheby's or whatever but um yeah like do you want to have a Kobe like shares constantly traded like I don't know it's just different do you see what I'm saying like I think it's no idea there is a distinction I think I'm sorry but it's not the same I think Anthem what's your kind of framework around think about these is maybe like nfts 2.0 or is that a bad bad mental model um I do like the the social tokens as nfts 2.0 I kind of tweeted it the other day um but I think that honestly the in-state or like best case scenario for

these I think it's going to be a combination of NST nfts with the shares or like shareholder groups that's where I think this is going to Trend towards um I think it just makes a ton of sense to have an nft collection associated with your like whatever your VIP shareholder group and then you can also do some really cool things where like as time passes if they've been one of your shareholders for a really long time you can reward those people who've been holding whatever your nft and have it like upgrade with different tiers and stuff like that I think that's a really cool Lane that this could go down um but one of the reasons I think I said Mt 2.0 is because the royalties um and everything are built into the contract so like one of the things that people have said

um one of the reasons for why creators are not we're not as excited about nfgs before is because royalties basically got killed um but in this setup creators get a default a percentage of all the the trading fees so it's kind of like a royalties by default um implementation that's why I kind of said it's like NFC 2.0 but I do think there should be a combination that could be really cool um since frantec is very Bare Bones I think you can build a lot of cool protocols and things on top of it and we've kind of already started to see devs build out different like uis and ux um and like things on top like to trade um the shares fractionized shares um I think that'll continue to happen

but it can be like the bear the base layer for other things on top um and with the speculation the speculation thing I just think like it's it is weird that it's people you kind of seen on the timeline yeah some people are happy that their Shares are up but they're also people that are unhappy that their Shares are not up like some people who have a ton of flowers like well why isn't my share as high as this person um you kind of seen some people like yeah I don't want I don't want to be on the app just because I don't want to deal with that um like personal um situation hey everyone we'll get back to Empire in just a minute but before we do that I want to let you know that we have permissionless coming up permissionless is Big conference that block works and

Bank lists put on together it is the biggest the best defy conference in crypto this year it is in Austin Texas September 11th through 13th if you've been in crypto for a while you know that bear Market conferences are the best kind of conferences we have a phenomenal lineup of speakers a lot of the guests that you hear on Empire are both going to be speaking there you will have the opportunity to meet them there and a lot of the topics that we cover on Empire ZK attack roll ups account abstraction Mev app chain thesis a lot of that kind of stuff that will all be discussed at permissionless this year so because you are a listener of Empire you get a special discount that's right Santi and

I negotiated with our marketing team you get 30 off if you go to blockworks.com forward slash permissionless Empire 30 is going to get you 30 off your ticket today when I'm recording this that's about 300 off your ticket so type in Empire 30 when buying your permissionless ticket you get about 300 bucks off click the link at the bottom of this episode it's in the show notes do it quickly because prices go up all the time and if you are going to permissionless hit me up let me know shoot me a DM on Twitter I would love to meet up with you there so a couple couple things that I'd like to your thoughts on on that point which is one the price manipulation of these shares

um especially tied to my second question which is Bots right there's a lot of bots out there on Twitter they will presumably come on this platform and try to snipe and and do and you know front run and I'll do all these kind of things how do you mitigate that or not is it some is there some sort of baked in mechanism to prevent these sort of things or um yeah like what happens if I don't know sad person like you know that there's I wonder if like there's like a way to short these shares but like if you know that like you know say you're a soccer player and you're not going to know your contract or something bad's gonna happen that like

you're gonna go from like Manchester United to like Miami or something and like that's positive or negative like these people might like sell or buy or sell their shares not maybe through their direct account but like through Associates and so how do you kind of think about all that yeah it's it definitely gets very complex with the the price manipulation when it's an individual token because obviously I know things about me that nobody else is going to know um um so I think like if you implement something I don't know maybe on how individuals trade their shares or individuals close to you trade trade your shares that's could be possible I really I'm not sure um as far as like anti-body mechanisms they're definitely not in place now but

I think something cool that could be done um right now basically Bots are looking for high follower accounts as soon as they make their accounts on Friends act they're buying their shares early and then selling as as whatever as the manual people come in um I think one way to counteract that could be to have the early buyers have like the shares locked for a certain amount of time so say you buy the first uh 50 and it's like well prices under 100 you can't sell until like a month later or something and in that scenario then Bots are probably less likely to game it because they're not going to want to hold for that long instead of just getting the free money on thing um the bonding curve yeah but the price manipulation thing is is definitely going to be uh yeah I'll be uh as you

were saying that I was thinking of that like you could if you're the owner you'd have to stake your amount and if you want to sell it's like a 10 b51 plan or whatever where you have to say You're Gonna click a button it's like an unbonding period right right you you initiate the cell or the intent to sell everyone sees that and then you could sell out of it after six days or a certain amount of time period um no it's not perfect maybe there are better mechanisms but something like that probably feels a little bit Fair um you know Santi I think all early markets are manipulated by the way like all you know no like absolutely you traded you

traded D5 and that you were one of the first like big D5 folks trading in the D5 like that that was a rigged Market until the market gets more liquid I would say I mean to liquid it's more volatile yes um no we're not like trading actively on it like D5 farming yeah if you're the first block or so yeah of course like the the yield is much much higher I'll be taking a whole lot more risk but but yeah look I mean um I think there is a distinction between a rig market and an early E-liquid Market in price Discovery two different things that's fair let me just tell you maybe my thought on this auntie is like we're moving to a world where anyone can

become a Creator and any anyone can become a Creator and anyone cannot just become a Creator but like a true Star online and today we have a world where you can long or short the earnings and valuation and product releases and success of companies um it makes sense that you would be able to do that with people as well is this the right way to do this maybe probably not I don't know most startups end up dying this one mathematically probably and probabilistically probably dies too but like it makes sense that like as more and more people become creators you should have a way to bet on these creators you know yeah I mean okay like I I equally thought about this idea where

you could bet on the specific individuals within a company so say that you like uh think about a company like um Google so many different divisions but hey you could you bet on Google brain and not been on other parts of Google like AdWords or whatever and you could specifically maybe combine LinkedIn and then and then bet on specific departments within a company hey that'll be kind of interesting right so the question yeah like I get your point how is that any different if you're able to do that if you're betting on if a company is a collection of individuals that are creating some sort of output then this is no different than betting on a company it's just it it feels kind of very weird that it's at the individual level because people like that it's no different it's like but now

you're it's one step it's not one step it's like the you're going to the root right so it's like if a company has one employee then well you're basically betting on one person right or if you're betting on a company because of a CEO then how's that any different than friend Tech so I'm thinking the other side of my argument because I'm aware of that um but there's a weird like the brain just works in different mechanisms so for companies it's not different like I like you like you investing in Block Works was a bet on Mike and me right like you didn't have to buy my share you bought like that on us right but I think you're seeing a lot of like abnormal

companies get created these days I think like the definition of a company was like you know maybe you go out and raise some money but like now it might be like you have a music label and then you're like Mr Beast and you launch some like feastables chocolates and like it just it doesn't look normal I would say so uh oh I'm conceding is all I'm saying I'm conceding to your point yes the the future will look very weird as we think about it today it always does I'm just not I'm struggling again I'm I'm saying I'm struggling to see it yeah yeah and and maybe younger people like maybe I'm just an old dog and like Anthem what do you think of the very dystopian view that uh social tokens create an incentive to cause harm to folks so like let's say

you like if this was like a real Market you could go long but you could also go short and let's say I'm trading at like an e one eth right now if you put on a big short on like Yano tokens you would like a be like you extend that out further like far far enough and you're incentivized to kill me but you're also incentivized to like put out a bad rumor about me to like help our competit like to do something like that what do you think about that kind of dystopian world I mean I think it's real but I think it also already exists like I think people have um I don't think there's official social tokens but I do think there's products in crypto and also companies that trade publicly to have really big public figureheads um and other people in in those

Industries are aware that if bad things happen to that person then bad things will happen to this company and then public perception will change and it's the same thing in crypto um I think that a lot of there's some discourse that is skewed in crypto and it's intentionally skewed towards like people are talking about product there that are competitors to them and they know that they talk about those projects and like they may not be seen in a in an as good of a light and that will like make them look better I think that's a thing that already exists um obviously it's a lot more direct with individual um tokens but yeah I think it's I mean prediction prediction markets are probably uh more dangerous than this right yeah if you put a prediction

Market on uh you know particular individual or becoming present or whatnot then uh you could put a bounty on their head yeah if you're shorting it where versus these tokens like thank you uh I'm it's gonna get weird but like you're saying that if a person dies and their token is worth less maybe it's actually could be the inverse okay like it could be much much more yeah because then it could you could memorialize and like you become this sort of Legend and whatnot like think about all a lot of artists that have like Amy Winehouse or you know a bunch of celebrities that have unfortunately passed away and that like they just they're collect like Kobe sneakers or whatever like it just blew up because

you know he's no longer with us unfortunately so I'm just saying um I think like that's the by the way this is what I think in Europe they don't allow you to short shares which is like it creates a sort of perverse incentive to like go on do harm some people argue that I think like you know there's always like people that want to do harm but like it's yeah it's a bit of a stretch I think I'm less concerned about that to be honest like the day to promote like nefarious or well not Ferris better promote like uh you know evil uh no I'm less concerned about that hmm what do you think so Santa you're you're an investor in blur and uh and some I'm curious so one thing we

haven't talked about is this airdrop or like a potential airdrop or something and like the points and that whole system can you just explain how that works and maybe I'm curious how you think about this in in comparison to something like blur yeah um they said they're Distributing 100 million points over the next six months that's the plan um and they said that it will be rewarded in different ways depending on the the users that they see in the app because they don't want it to be game they don't want it to be sideled so they said they're like they reserve the right to change the metrics that they're looking at for Distributing points to people um but yeah I talked about it a little bit the other day blur I think launched when it went when that token launched it was around

three and a half billion fully diluted um valuation um so some people have been trying to like project out okay what if frintech launches at 1 billion how much are they going to airdrop uh how much of that's going to be distributed and what price will the token be um depending on whatever FDB that they launch at um that's a ways out but I think it's interesting in that it's probably going to incentivize activity within the application especially because people already saw how much the blur airdrop paid out to people um so they kind of have like something to compare to especially since that was also paradigm um yeah I got I got a lot of points the first week

um and a lot of people were like yo dude now I need to get on the app like you can literally see where people release their points that Friday and actually be skyrocketed as soon as everybody was posting how many points that they got so um it's definitely a good incentive um to get people but we'll see how they avoid it being gamed yeah I think there's actually a decent comparison with blur not only did Paradigm lead I think Paradigm LED blur too um but uh but they both had yeah but they both had Anonymous Founders and I think the blur founder is a little less Anonymous now but the he has a friend Tech yeah the blur hat was definitely not Anonymous you knew who it was oh yeah okay just the rest of the world didn't for a while okay why do you think the friend Tech

Founders are Anonymous what is the like does that concern you at all I'm not sure I mean I I would say they're kind of like pseudo anonymous because like yeah race is anonymous but there's a lot of people um in CT that know him like know him pretty well so it's not even like he really was a full Anon um and then also there's pancakes which everybody knows and people who have been to conferences I've seen him met him talk to him like I can FaceTime him like right now if I wanted to and talk to him um so there's like some people that are on the team that are front facing um I think that helps with the Anon concerns but yeah I wouldn't say it's like fully and on I think there's people who know them yeah um what do you think about the bitcloud

comparison like how do you think of friend Tech being different uh my interpretation with big cloud I think the ux was extremely clunky and friendtech is not the greatest but I remember with Bitcoin you would deposit like Bitcoin I think to bitcoin addresses um and that's how it was it was traded and then also with big cloud it was like VCS got shares of everything like at very like huge discounts immediately when stuff started trading um whereas with fintech when you click buy your chair is literally at zero for everybody um and you have the issues with Bots but it's not it's not the same as somebody else literally haven't been up 100x on

all of your buys immediately um I think that was a big difference it feels a lot more crypto native from the founders perspective and then also from the community perspective to me um rather than big Club did and people I think there was a lot of people who liked the idea behind bitcloud but just didn't like the execution um and also I think it gives opportunity here because there are a ton of people who are like well big cloud didn't work so this isn't going to work so you have a ton of people who are on the negative side um and it's kind of like a um an opportunity there yeah it feels like the main difference in my mind is uh one was Auto opt-in or one one was like it auto added you basically yeah yeah clouds basically growth hack is like Santi was Auto added to the

platform as opposed to now if Santi doesn't want to join the platform he doesn't have to join the platform right and you can also withdraw you couldn't withdraw off of bitcloud you had to do like yeah and now you can so those feel like the two big differences to me um well I was just thinking as you heard as so there's been a lot of sim swaps of these prominent accounts um now of course if you haven't connected the account like if people get control of your account you don't have a friend Tech profile they're gonna go on create one and monetize as quickly as possible and then sell all the shares right just yeah just creates a bigger incentive for these things to happen um

have there been people that have like sold like gain prominence or Price went up a lot they bought some and then they sold them all very quickly effectively rugging all their uh supporters there was one I forget who it was it wasn't an nft guy right he said yeah so yeah Ben ben.eve had like 30 something shares of his like by far the largest holder and he was top five for a while I don't know how much of how much of them he sold um but yeah there are some scenarios where it's like people see that they are by far the biggest holder and with how the bonding curve is set up their price obviously their entry is way better than everybody else if they bought them super

early um so it's like why do you have that many shares if your intent is not to dump them pretty hard and it like because of how much trading fees the bigger accounts get there's really no I don't I wouldn't say like there's there's less incentive to buy a ton of your shares and be like and dump them on people than there is to have a good chat um and be active um and do it in that way I think that makes more sense so that's kind of iffy if you buy a ton of your shares so if I if I buy like um go out and buy 10 of your shares and then six months time I decided to punch out and sell does that mean you're not going to talk to me ever again no man we'll be cool will you punch me

if you see me in real life as long as you hold one as long as you hold on to what okay that is kind of funny though I will say what's going on here and I'm like oh dude this guy sold my share what the hell yeah yeah yeah yeah like why did he just tell me look I mean I'm like we've all gone through this process folks we're like certain people block you particularly ex-girlfriends or whatnot okay yeah but like I think one of our employees just told me damn that's brutal that's what I'm saying like like how do you think about all these things right where people make uh financial decisions and you may not know the full context of that

and people have parameters again if you're up 10x like you want to manage risk you want to manage your portfolio whatever people have different reasons for why they sell um when you're selling a share of a company and you're on the board like or you're close to the founder then I think it's again it's that step removed uh it's still a sensitive conversation but um yeah like how does this influence your social like life and part of that once you have like you're seeing the people close to you or selling your shares buying and selling your shares well hopefully not too much um but I feel like it already kind of

happens in some of these chats and just on Twitter like I know for me I have a ton a ton of followers now so I have people in my replies that are like Angry all the time or like negative all the time that just happens by default um but also when you're trading on uniswap if you've been trading like these micro Caps or low caps the past few months like there are certain times when you're trading something and your homie is dumping on you like it's just it's just how it goes with some of these PVP markets um I made hope I mean it definitely is is a lot different if it's your individual token but that's also why some people have their their alts on there and they're trading through those instead of their public profiles yeah yeah I mean like people dump on

their followers um and and they've been caught you know and called out on um you know but yeah I think it's different if they're buying and selling your shares yeah so so yes like your your mom goes out and buys like 10 of your shirts and one day she's like really mad at you and then it's like rage quits almost everything and then crashes you're like um these are the things like I've thought about like they're fascinating like things to think about like because it forces you to think okay how do we if a company has it different from like an

individual chair or like income sharing agreements like if you're I've always found them to be problematic in the sense that like who's the Oracle like who's reporting however much you make and and at some point are you incentivized to make that incremental career leap or take on more risk or start a new Venture if you're gonna know you're gonna have to be paying like 10 of everything that you like you're making like this is like very weird and sometimes we play around and I'm all for experimentation especially around like you know in crypto historically it's been like in D5 for instance like testing new Financial Primitives and constructs and mechanisms

is fascinating from a game theoretical perspective but and it might people might be critical as I as I'm they were listening me say that because like wait a minute how is that any different but I think it is with social and I don't think we sometimes should Venture into these things um because like sometimes like social interactions are difficult sometimes as it is like when you're introducing another layer of financialization I don't think it gets any better but maybe I'm wrong I mean not it's definitely true there's some people who are adamantly like I'm not making an account on the app because I don't I don't want people buying and selling my shares um I think like asiano says kind of a difference between print Tech and big

cause you don't have to make an account if you don't want to like you're not automatically giving one you don't want to opt into it um it's not something that you have to do I heard that there were some some shops doing perps yeah on individual shares well you can now uh it's on to you can take your shares and so I'm sure you know way more about this than I do but I think you can manually take your shares off of friendtech and trade it on something like I think you can create like a pool on uniswap and things like that but ansem what is have you looked into this I haven't done it for mine but yeah I think the guy Fubar he's like a devil on Twitter um he essentially made some rapper that allows you to convert your friend Tech um like shares into a erc20 token

um and then like have it be tradable um the issue with that is obviously you have to like I think you have to see the lp with whatever a certain amount for it to not be gamed really easily I know somebody that did it and it got like spotted super quickly and sold into um I haven't done it for mine but yeah somebody is has built that out I'm sure other people will do similar stuff also yeah ansem how does this change how you or actually anything else on uh friendtech either Anson or Santi well I was going to ask you guys a fractionalization right as I as I was thinking about the scenario of like so punks for instance I've been fractionalized there's zombies and apes over fractionalized because of course the price tag just got to a point where

like you and it allowed people to like buy a part of something and and feel great I guess about it um this answer how do you think about like your Shares are now three thousand bucks that's fairly expensive that's higher than the floor of like a lot of nft collections yeah especially now uh as this price continues to grow because you know you're prominent you know people like you yada yada like your price goes up um do you ever like are there plans or is there an ability to fractionalize I guess if you wrap it and then you fraction like you could fractionalize and people could buy partial shirt of that but they won't have access to your group if you don't own the full share um

well the the way I've kind of been thinking about is I think I already have like a free Discord not a free telegram um and I post all my information there so what I've been planning to do is just continue to put out uh free content for people and then have some stuff that I share with the smaller group um I'm not really sure about the the fractionalizing piece of it um obviously if it if it gets ridiculous I think it makes sense to do so but I just want to optimize for putting out the most like good quality information for people um it's just what I've always done so I'm pretty consistent with that but yeah I'm not really sure what the I'm not sure what the what even to do with it yet because it happened so fast I

honestly didn't even expect it to be I didn't expect to be that that high on the leaderboard um so I've been asking like the group like what will they want to see from it um like some people I've met in person like come to stuff that I'm at in New York um that's cool um but yeah I really don't know no none of them don't know yet how's this uh changed how you think about the L2 trade and like just curious how you you know how you think about like bass and arbitrum and optimism yeah I still like optimism I like optimism a ton um I think they've done a really good job with their op stack and having people on board through uh like their architecture especially since bass

doesn't have a token um really the only way to bet on the activity of that L2 continue to increase and do well is either through coin the stock or through op the token and I like the l2s trade against ethereum um I think that as eip4844 um comes around which is the next several months and it gets even cheaper to transact on Roll-Ups I think that the most popular Roll-Ups um their tokens are going to appreciate more so than ethereum does and if we're in a choppy Market where Bitcoin and eth aren't really going anywhere trading in a Range I think that gives you a good trade where you can hedge like short ethereum and hold whatever L2 token

um where you're seeing increased activity so I think that's an interesting trade but yeah I like op a lot I think it's a strong play what about fraud proofs yeah that they don't have them yes like uh what the [ __ ] like you know we somehow accept the fact that you know they can it's actually surprising that they haven't like come out with fraud proofs and we're so late in this game I think it's surprising from like it's surprising that it's not talked about as much in the crypto discourse um as you guys know I'm like a huge Solana bull um and the Solana gods are like yo they don't have frog proofs like l2s are super centralized like you can do

everything better or well optimism doesn't Optimum does yeah yeah right um but I'm saying like just generally the thesis around L2 is being more centralized and not as fully built out yet I think that's valid um but I do think that you also have to factor in when you're taking the trade it's like okay what what trade-offs am I looking for and I think that the access that coinbase has to all their retail customers um is really strong like if you're looking purely from like a trade perspective then yeah um and I have confidence that they will eventually get there um with the other yeah you're talking more of a trade which which I can see like I think it's a good trade none of this financial really good but but yeah if you if you want I mean it's hugely bullish

and people should go listen to the base episodes with Jesse um because I think from an onboarding perspective it's huge because you have access to what is it you know 100 million 100 million yeah 102 million plus you know total registered users 10 million actives of coinbase like if a fraction of that gets on boarded and it's fairly easy to get onboarded um with this flow then yeah it could be positive for sure very curious to see if coinbase ends up talking about uh about base in their next earnings call or like how much they end up talking about base I don't know when their next earnings call is probably two months or something I read um recently a JPMorgan report which by

the way I think they've been doing Fair job of covering it over the last couple years they talk about bass and they talk really well yeah yeah yeah so like I would say like Financial analysts don't properly understand I think the base but some actually at least understand that it is impactful for an onboarding perspective and like getting people to use these things more so than ever right because they just they're the Gateway into into this whole world Jason I want to ask you a question because I appreciate you've been asking most of the questions but like you tweeted earlier that you've seen terrible takes and that um this is why we're having this episode

because you felt that it sounded like you felt that a lot of people just had horrible takes about friend Tech and you wanted to clarify a bunch of stuff I don't know if we've done a good job here or if you were sub tweeting at me which I haven't been negatively or anything about this I came in here telling you that I was going to take the opposite side because I yeah I'm just concerned I haven't onboarded but what have you seen out there that made you tweet that that you felt that was a terrible take or was not properly understood by folks about friend Tech I think it's less that there were terrible tweets and it's more that um you know coming out of ECC if you remember all like the threators thread

and threading around that like it's all infrastructure being built and that we need consumer and like this is the most popular consumer app we've had in crypto and I don't know a couple couple of years it feels like probably since probably since uh open C and nfts in 2021 um and I just think that like what a product looks like in month one is never what it looks like in in year in year one or in year two and that things change a lot and that like I think a lot of people that I've seen uh who maybe aren't like super crypto native I think a lot of crypts very very very crypto native people just kind of like jumped into friendtech because they know that the one of the best ways to make money in crypto usually is like playing around with new things and like bridging over

to the new L2 and like playing around with this weird decks and like that's I'm just like accustomed to doing that but I think a lot of people may be on the like on the outskirts of crypto are very very very pessimistic and they like to kind of complain a lot that like we don't have X Y and Z but like now that we have some weird iteration of what you know some a consumer crypto app looks like uh it's like I feel like the pitchforks came out whereas like I do think that and I get it right because bitcloud and SPF and machinsky and like we're coming off some like a couple of bad years right but like I just think that it's uh it's a good time to be optimistic and think about like what products could turn into instead of just bringing out the pitchforks right away

like Sante I think you've approached it from a very healthy perspective like look I'm not using it yet here's why let me get on a podcast and like talk about it and like really figure it out like I don't think you're gonna use it ever and that's totally fine what I don't like is like people who've never played with it don't don't ask any questions and just think it's like bitcloud 2.0 because like that's not how the industry progresses you need to build risky things to to move an industry forward that's my take by the way that's a good thing by the way you want to hear something interesting so Nvidia is up like seven percent today which is a third of each market cap bro yeah like if it is up six percent and it's a third of ethereum's market

cap like and it's a reminder like okay people might argue that this is a terrible take and yada yada but it is like surprising to me sometimes when like you know the crypto Market is just very very very small in my mind yeah um and like I'm I'm a very much an optimist um and if this is what experimentation and onboarding looks like then okay like so be it you know um the future always looks weird and it feels weird now to me to be betting on people um but another part of my brain does not see it as any different than buying a share in a company

particularly if you're only buying that chair Because You Love Steve Jobs or Elon Musk or or the Google guys or Mark Zuckerberg or whatever uh and I think investing in early stages as I'm hearing me be critical of something that I'm not using well yeah it's betting on people it's just weird that you're seeing it 24 7 365 and your friends sells your shakers yeah I just it's that edge that I uh yeah it is weird it is weird it's weird but I think that's where the markets are going in general is like if you buy so like buying a stock buy a share of Nvidia for example use buying a share in the stock market used to

represent you just send me a video I'm sorry what is NVIDIA and I don't know how you pronounce it what is the video I don't know oh you know the trade of the year you watch you watch The Zone conference drucken Miller gets on there he goes I'm not recommending anything I'm not sharing any of my trades the one thing I'm telling you that I am buying and loading up on is NVIDIA oh yeah beginning of the year yeah okay so the daughter sperm what if drunken like creates a Twitter and then friends Tech like yeah bro and it makes up friends that would make me actually register on the platform if I could get access to themselves I will say that Santi let me finish that last thought which is the stock market

used to represent two things it represented um access to cash flows right companies would give back big dividends it used to be like 40 30 and then you know got lower and it used to represent ownership and or excuse me uh voting rights right but if you look at a lot of like the biggest companies in the s p today like when you buy a share of meta you don't get either of those things right Zuck controls with ten to one the Voting Rights and they have no dividends so the stock market has essentially become just this kind of speculative game and that's totally fine I think but it doesn't represent what it used to represent which is like this tangible thing that you were talking about when you go to a basketball game and you get the net or something like I think a lot of the

markets are are no longer tangible things they're speculative things like where consumer attention is going yeah well let me be clear I think you get some very tangible benefit it sounds like to get access to you know a direct line of communication to someone that otherwise wouldn't be responding to you or you wouldn't have access to that's feels very tangible to me now I'm not saying that whether and how much value that has well that's for the market to decide obviously and that may not be to your point the only reason why like it's hard to understand why these were these things are worth anything

we're stocks for that matter like is it because of cash flow or because of momentum or because of a wide variety of reasons well it's really hard to parse out the different components but you know because it sounds like there's a lot of people that they're share price their their individual price is worth a lot but they don't they're not very active in their chat and others are really active in their chat but their shares might not be worth as much so it's kind of hard right to to make um some sort of like one size fits all for why things are worth uh or shares or words and friend Tech but interesting nonetheless so let me ask you a question as we kind of sounds like we're nearing here the end of the episode but I'm curious uh who do you think is going to be the major

one does a major celebrity like get on boarded in the next week or two and if so who who is that I think we're gonna have a wrapper on honestly I feel like I feel like they're that's not a major show [Laughter] I think I think a rapper won't be in all be pretty cool um anybody in music I think that like they have that that strong fan base that they see and know people will pay extra because they already sell concert tickets they like sell signings like stuff like that um so I think that makes sense as an industry that would pay for something like this access to something like this um and you kind of already seen some um like disclosure wow

um so I think you've kind of already seen some examples but yeah yeah it's got to be someone independent the record labels might have a different View and perspective on this all right yeah they might want to cut of those those feasts somewhere weird though it's someone weird it's always someone weird like remember when Brady turned on laser eyes back in 2021 yeah I was like what I was like what is going on yeah you know what you know I tweeted at him said you should turn on laser eyes and Photoshop the lasers and he turned and he took my pick and turned it on [Laughter]

um if you're the founders one of the founders sounds like there's five um what would be the first product feature upgrade that you would do definitely photos and videos 100 like allow people to um you know record videos where they're talking answering questions a lot of people to uh send photos they can like send charts and stuff like that um I don't know about files maybe files for like music um artists but yeah I think like media is is pretty big and then after that I would say right now the chat is fully one-sided so people send messages and only the owner of the chat can see all of them but if you're in the chat you

can only see the owner's messages and the owner has to like manually quote tweet off everybody's replies if they want to include them in the rest of the conversation so I think there should be a way to toggle the messages that you want other people to see or like some easy way to make the owner quotes eat them um instead of having to manually copy paste those I would say those are the two main things I would focus on adding first yeah I feel those feels like pretty key upgrades um on the question of nfts in general how do you think friend Tech changes the game for monetization of fan base and attention

going down this route versus issuing your own nft collection do you see them as like a derivative of or mutually exclusive are you more bullish on one versus the other I see them as complimentary um I think that they're going to be creators that launch NFC collections associated with their chat rooms um and the time um time aspect of them I think will be really cool like say you have somebody who's holding your share for a month or two months or three months you have an entity evolved with how long they've been holding your share I think that feels okay yeah like long term to your point Jason hey you not only discover me but you've held

the bag through the last 10 years now you just like sniped in and dumped it exactly um but I do think that some NFC projects that are purely just profile pictures and haven't really delivered that much value back to their communities I think those may fall away because there's a lot more rhinos more strong teams not just friend Tech but also stronger teams that are iterating um heavier on like the membership royalties that side of things and how really to build stronger communities instead of just having the pure jpeg so I do think those kind of continue to not do as well there it's not demand you drowning right now man so I can buy your shares

I was before this episode I I was thinking of doing it um but I will resist the urge for now partially because there's a whole host of things you need to like doing it on mobile is difficult like I feel like I know you can do it on your browse like desktop browser like if you enable mobile stuff so anyways um am I more inclined to do it after this discussion no but it's been interesting discussion it's too distracting man I just I'll

stay in my Lane this time around guys I know I'm going to be proven wrong and close out on a bunch of money quote unquote but uh like no I'm not no answer I'm looking at the fees right now you made 30 eat from this thing already yeah I'm already at like yeah 30. 30 and Kobe's at like crazy yeah yeah but like that's what I'm saying the incentives I'm not anybody outside of crypto the incidents are people who are actually celebrities like big artists if they see that then they're gonna like obviously wanna at least check it out that's what I had my whole thought process

hmm what are you gonna do with that run a validator [Laughter] ready [Laughter] all right guys well this has been great at least uh this is this Jason that was a perfect layup for you to say with that part of that money you can go to permissionless in a couple weeks Anthem you coming to permissionless man I've been thinking about it it's in um Austin right it's in Texas right it's an awesome man you just made 30 each like what's up the crowd yeah I'm gonna try to not even sell you a ticket I'm trying to sell you

a sponsorship over here you're using that you got that sponsorship money now I'll give it away to my shareholders bro what's your latest uh for so we time stamped is how many shares and what's your value today and Sam and yours Yano oh I don't have it up one of my uh answers pretending like he doesn't have it in the other room right here yeah no he's at 150 holders and 1.75 the app is so miserably slow this is the screen I'm on for just

I'm at 41 holders 0.15 each wow so you're like nothing getting combined I've made one ethno look at that I've made I made one you're worth one thirtieth of what this fine German is I'm just gonna leave it at that okay you go 111th 1 11th oh man well there's two ways to look at that one you're absolutely worthless or two there's a lot of room to grow in your oven I'm infinitely more valuable than you

are so well with that folks I'm gonna tune out and go talk to my therapist podcasts and see you guys next one [Music]