The Explorer Mindset with Simona Pop | Layer Zero

Transcript

i'm, a, little, bit, of, a, child, of, the revolution, and, i, know, what, it's, like to, not, have, freedoms, of, expression travel all, of, that, and, i, think, it's, very, very important, and, very, ingrained, clearly, in me, to, be, able, to, enable, that, for, other people welcome, to, layer, zero, layer, zero, is, a podcast, of, unscripted, conversations, with the, people, that, make, up, the, ethereum community, crypto, is, built, by, code, but, is composed, by, people, and, each, individual member, of, the, crypto, community, has, their own, story, to, tell, cypherpunks, understood that, the, code, they, write, impacts, the people, that, use, it, and, layer, 0, focuses on, the, people, behind, the, code, because ethereum, is, people, all, the, way, down, and always, has, been, today, on, layer, zero, i'm

speaking, with, simona, popp, and, we recorded, this, episode, in, the, middle, of devconnect, uh, and, so, there, is, a, big conference, room, a, co-working, space, where a lot, of, people, are, heads, down, building whatever, it, is, that, they're, building, so there's, a, little, bit, of, background chatter, but, hopefully, that, adds, to, the vibe, rather, than, detract, from, it, we, talk a, lot, about, governance, and, simona, is, a child, of, the romanian, freedom, revolution, from, the, the eastern, bloc, from, from, russia's dominance, with with, communism, and, so, she was, very, very, young, when, uh, the revolution, in, romania, happened, and, broke and, broke, romania, free, from, communism and, we, use, this, as, a, metaphor, to, discuss thou, governance, of, all, things, she, talks

about, how, yes, you, can, cut, off, the, head of, top-down, totalitarian, communism but, you, have, to, also, replace, that, with something, else, or, else, the, same, sort, of structure just, grows, back, in, its, place, and, so, we we, take, this, idea, of, if, we, are, going, to kill, something, we, need, to, replace, it with, something, new, otherwise, the, same patterns, will, will, unfold, once, again which, is, what, happened, in, romania, post uh, post-communist, russia and, so, we, talk, about, the, different structures, of, dow, governance, we, use, this metaphor, for, a, flowing, river, of, liquid governance, of, liquid, representation, and allowing, this, river, to, adapt, as, rivers do, to, its, surrounding, environment, and, if

dow, governance, needs, to, change, and, adapt over, time, it, also, needs, to, act, like, a flowing, river and, so, there's, plenty, of, metaphors, with with, rivers, and, adaption, in, there, and overall, simona, is, just, a, beloved, part, of the, ethereum, community, she's, working extremely, hard, figuring, out, dow governance, which, is, the, problem, of problems, in, this, space, right, now, so let's, go, ahead, and, get, right, into, this conversation, with, simona, pop, right, after we, talk, about, some, of these, fantastic sponsors, that, make, the, show, possible, ave is, the, leading, decentralized, liquidity protocol, and, now, ave, v3, is, here, ave, v3 has, powerful, new, features, to, enable, you to, get, the, most, out, of, d5, including isolation, mode, which, allows, for, many more, markets, to, be, launched, with, more exotic, collateral, types, and, also

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everyone, just, has, the, the, best, words, to describe, amsterdam, it's, beautiful, it's all, the, flowers, are, in, bloom it's, tulip, season and, we, are, here, as, a, connoisseur, of plants, i, will, have, to, say, the, plants, of amsterdam, are, top-notch, right, on, point yes, and, the, street, flowers, what, is, the thing, that's, like, a, whole, different level, of, street, flower, yeah, i, have walked, hours, yeah, i've, only, been, here for, two, days, i, don't, know, when, you, got here, but, i've, been, only, here, for, two days, and, i, have, walked, for, like, four, or five, hours, total, agreed, yeah, and, it's like, why, would, you, take, a, means, of transport, like, canals, flowers, trees, in bloom do, you, know, how, amsterdam, was, chosen, uh devconnect, do, you, know, who, who, made, this i, don't, actually, well, they, made, a, good

choice, they, absolutely, did, and, the weather, they, like, arranged, that, to, a, tea so pleased, i've, asked, you, this, question before, but, not, in, a, long, form, podcast capacity, so, we're, going, to, go, into, this a, little, bit, more, but, why, real, life, why is, real, life, important, we, love, this industry, is, on, the, internet, like, we don't, need, to, meet, in, real, life, why can't, we, just, go, meet, on, discord, or, zoom why, can't, we, meet, in, the, metaverse because, we're, people, and energy, is, important, and being, able, to, spend, time, with, friends because, at, this, stage, a, lot, of, us, are friends, let's, face, it, we've, known, each other, for, what five, years, um, it's, a, long, time, and, it's actually, a, really, really, um nice, kind, of, group, of, friends, and, if, you

think, about, it, it's, a, really, really, good dynamic, that, we, have together and, the, new, people, coming, in, and, the, ogs it's, just, really, really, important, to just, catch, up, now, and, again, and obviously, the, hugging, now, the, hugging, is back, on, the, menu, it's, like, it's, great, i have, been, warning, people, that, i, am, a hugger so, they're, not, surprised but, it's, also, like, no, one, is, surprised because, like, the, last, time, i've, seen most, of, these, people, with, months, ago yeah, and, so, just, the, enthusiasm, of seeing, people, here, in, real, life, is, is just, lovely, plus, like, we, get, to, lock, all the, youth, developers, in, a, room, and, force them, into, having, a, merge, date, so, that's what's, going, on, right, now, amazing, very true, um, at, an, undisclosed, location, yes, a very, secret, location, of, only, the

privileged, parties, can, get, to, um, yeah but, yeah look, and, again everything, does, happen, online, and, we, can obviously, reach, a, lot, more, people, online but, it, is, important, to, create, all, of these, little, moments, that, we, can touch, base, we, can, interact, with, each other, face, to, face, and, then, go, back, to being, online, right, and, i, think, having those, catch-up, moments, is, important certainly, yeah, the, uh, dev, connect, it's called, devconnect, for, a, reason, we, are here, to, sync, our, nodes, yes, uh, because even, though, i, think, obviously, the, crypto industry, is, probably the, most, adept, at, working, online, like, we can, get, we, can, be, the, most, productive versus, any, other, industry, online but, like, still, in, real, life, like, there's always, these, these, tailwind, benefits, of

being, in, real, life, that, will, never, be replaced, yeah, and, think, about, the, fact that, most, i, mean, i, don't, know, about, you but, a, lot, a, lot, of, the, relationships that, i, have, and, a, lot, of, the, friendships and, a, lot, of, the, collaborations that, i've, worked, on, started at, certain, events 2018, 2019, and, so, on, when, we, were, first kind, of, doing, these, things, and establishing, the, schedule, of, events, so yeah, it's, important, so, what, uh, class, are you, a, part, of, like, what, is, your, what's like, cycle, of, of, the, crypto, industry, did you, come, in, are, you, class, of, 2017 earlier, end, of, 2017, 2017., okay when, i, actually, started genuinely, working, on, a, project, because that's, when, i, met, mike

well, end, of, 2017, beginning, of, 2018, and that's, where, um, i, became, the, co-founder of the, standard, bounties, protocol, and bounties, networks, yes, that, works, right so, what, what, brought, you, in, like bounty's, network, is, very, very, uh, bitcoin ethos, aligned, which, is, kind, of, where, you found, yourself, right, close, to, kevin milwaukee, very, much, like, uh, finding, ways to, push development, to, the, to the, margins, like what, about, crypto, brought, you, in, so, i think, for, me, was, always, this, ability, to level, out, the, playing, field, and, allow more, people, a, seat, at, the, table, in, fact rebuild, the, table with, a, lot, more, seats, right, and, that's one, of, the, main, things, that, attracted, me to, bounties, and, actually, because, bitcoin was, built, on, top, of, the, standard

bounties, protocol, and, so, we, were, very much, value, aligned, but, in, terms, of the, core, interest, for, me, and, that's, what continues, to, be, my, core, interest, is, how can, we enable, access, to, resource, for, everybody regardless, of, geography, regardless, of social, status, regardless, of, education regardless, of, language, regardless, of, all of, that, and, everything, that, i, tend, to, do is, to, push, that, forward, and, to try, to create, more, pathways, in, for, a, lot, more people what, were, you, doing, before, crypto, did, it kind, of, align, with, all, that, stuff, or or what, was, your, mode, of, operating, before crypto it, was, very, much, in, comms, and experiential, and, always, in, tech, but, you

know, the web, too sure, yeah, yeah so, kind, of, getting, out, trying, to, get, the the, listeners, grounded, for, who, simona pop, is um, what, what, did, you, know before, crypto, that, you, brought, to, crypto like, what, what, information, have, you blessed, the, crypto, industry, with um i, think, for, me, it's, it's, interesting because being, originally, from, romanian, having experienced albeit, a, very, small, part, of, i, was, very young, when, the, revolution, happened, um, in 89, but, you, still, have, that, sense, of, what it, is, like, to live, in, a, country, where, censorship complete, lack, of, privacy, and restrictions, is, the, norm, and, so, i, think

i, see, this, sometimes, where i'm, a, little, bit, of, a, child, of, the revolution, and, i, know, what, it's, like to, not, have, freedoms, of, expression travel all, of, that, and, i, think, it's, very, very important, and, very, ingrained, clearly, in me, to, be, able, to, enable, that, for, other people, and, so, with, that, knowledge, and also, the, fact, that, knowing, that, i'm, also aware of, a, lot, of i, guess, the, importance, of, white, balance matters, when, you, are, trying, to completely, redesign, the, flow, of, things because, you, want, to, make, sure, that, if you're, going, to, redesign, it, you're, going to, not, redesign, it, in, the, same, image, as

what, came, before learn, from, what, came, before but, try, to, redesign, it, in, a, mindful, and balanced, way, so, that, we, don't, end, up in, the, same, place, or, even, a, worse, place so, this, is, going, to reveal, my, little, knowledge, of, that, era of, time, in, eastern, europe, but, uh, uh i, i, think, this, is, what, we, should definitely, dive, into uh, the, revolution, let's, go, let's, go, into that, how, old, were, you, when, when, six, six okay, so, you, didn't, know, much, else, other than, that, like, yeah, but, also, when, you're a, kid, you, kind, of, don't, really, realize the, magnitude, of, what's, going, on, and we're, talking, about, uh, is, this, communism in, russia, is, this, relevant, here, yes, so

basically, every history, lesson, they, call, it, the, eastern bloc, because, everything, that, was, around russia, and, below, was, under, russia's influence, right, you, had, the, ussr, at, the time so, anything, eastern, europe, was, like communist, controlled, by, had, the, same mode, as, operandi, as, the, ussr and, the, idea, was, that, it, would, be, made in, its, image, and, so what, you, had, was, the prague, spring, that, kick-started revolutions, in, all, of, these, countries, in the, eastern, bloc, and, it, almost, went, like a, domino, effect, and, so, all, of, them, then removed, communism, from, their, um governments, and, went, on, to, hopefully

rebuild, and, redesign, so, that, it, is, uh you, know, in, a, democratic, way, now what, that, also kind, of showed, me, and, made, me, understand, is, that sometimes a, revolution, doesn't, really, do, much right, you, cut, off, the, head, but, the, body stays, the, same, so, then, you, just, replace the, head, but, everything, else particularly, when, you're, talking, about, a bureaucracy will, just, be, exactly, the, same which, is, why, when, i, talk, about, crypto it's, it, shouldn't, be, a, revolution, it should, be, an, evolution, it, takes, longer but, it changes, the, whole, organism, versus, just the, head, yes, i, think, there's, a, very

common, pattern, throughout, history, is that, like, revolutions, are, really, good, at breaking, things, right, but, not necessarily, putting, them, back that, in, a, way, that, answers, to, the problems, of, why, the, revolution, decided to, happen, in, the, first, place, right, right all, it, does, is, says, well, this, isn't working, let's, end, it and, kind, of, fails, to, follow, through, it just, creates, the, vacuum, of, power, it creates, a, vacuum, of, power, and, i, think also, let's, remember, that, a, lot, of, the revolutions, that, have, happened, in, the world, are, really, orchestrated, by completely, other, interests, outside, of that, country, so, you, also, have, that okay, so, uh, the, revolution, started, when you, were, six so, it, it, was, all, of, a, week oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah

it, went, like, this, yeah, okay, um, very, fast yeah, okay, so, it, was, more, the, process, of recreation, that, probably, because, i, don't know, when, people, start, remembering, their first, memories, but, about, six, is, about right, right, so, that's, when, it, started building, let's, say, towards, a, democracy again, right democracy, right, right, so, your, formative years, were, all, about, just, looking, at, and being, under, the, paradigm, of, how, are, we going, to, re-architect, governance, yes yeah kind, of in, hindsight yeah, and, so, like, uh, again, like, history lesson, how, would, you, rate, that re-architection, if, you, had, to, rate, it, on a, scale, of, one, to, ten, minus, one, uh-oh why, oh, what, what, what, should, we, learn

from, this again, it's, it's, very, very, important, to um understand, that, things, that, have been, almost, cemented in, a, certain, way, take, a, lot, longer, to break, through, like, if, you, think, of plants, uh, growing, through, the, pavement right, that's, gonna, have, to, push, and, like really, work, to, get, through, it, when, it's so, solid, right, and, because, like, i mentioned, earlier usually, the, body, of, the, beast remains, the, same, and, so, you, have, to, work with, a, lot, of, things, that, were, already in, place and, then try, to, slowly, remove, those, and, replace them, with, better, with, better, with, better and, so

what, you, get, a, lot, is, and, i, think, that's still, valid, for the, whole, of, the, former, eastern, bloc, you have, a, lot, of, corruption, you, have, a, lot of, people, who, are, in, power, who, then, you know, decided, that, they, could, maintain power, but, this, time, it, would, be financial, and, so, you, have, that, switch um, yeah, using, the, plant, metaphor, if, you have, a, like, a, tree, for, example like, a, in, the, middle, of, a, storm, it, blows over, but, it, doesn't, die, and, then, it'll start, to, regrow, in, a, different, direction but, it'll, always, be, scarred, by, the, storm it'll, never, be, the, perfect, emblematic vertical, beautiful, tree, it, will, be, the kinked, tree, and, it, will, never, get, away it'll, never, get, away, from, that, kink right, like, it'll, always, have, this, in, its base, like, dna, right, not, the, dna, the

epigenetics, right, how, the, dna, is expressed, and, so, if, you're, telling, me that, like, the, romanian, government, did, uh or, the, romania, did, a good, job, of, taking the, head, off, but, forgot, to, like, replace the, culture, right, the, culture, was, the same, which, is, why, the, layer, zero, is always, so, important indeed, it, is, and, also, taking, again, from that, tree, metaphor, of, breaking i, think, what looking, at, what, three, and, what, we're doing, now, with, governance, we, need, to look, more, at, a, willow, model, where, it bends, and, it, like, it's, a, lot, more flexible, versus again, just, um very, rigid, right right, because, as, soon, as you, start, potentially, being, very, rigid

about, things you, could, miss, or, could be let's, say, a, little, bit, more, fragile, when something, happens, and, you, can't, adapt yeah, that, rigidity, aspect, is, really really, important, um we'll, go, down, to, that, in, a, second, one one, thing, i, learned, while, uh, kind, of going, down, the, ukraine, versus, russia rabbit, hole is, that, this, same, thing, has, already happened, this, happened, in, the, 1800s, it happened, in, the, 1900s, and, now, it's happening, again, and, like, the, what, my take, away, from, that, was, that, there's this, like russian, like, putin, is, very, uh, like focused, on, like, this, like kind, of, this, manifest, destiny, of, russia right, like, this, russian sort, of, just, like, ethnic, imperialism, or

something, like, putin, is, like, this embodiment, of, this, weird, like, russian energy, that, wants, to, like, dominate eastern, europe, right, i, mean, yeah, yeah and, and, this, the, the, story, of the, russian, empire, in, the, 1800s, whatever it was, called, back, then, coming, in, to dominate, ukraine, and, then, ukraine, like um, just, not, wanting, that, and, revolting against, that, that, this, story, has, already played, out, once, before, and, so, that, you when, you, know, that, that, was, like, three generations, ago, there's, something, in, the dna, of, eastern, europe, that, like, makes this, story, happen, again, and, again, and again, and, again, how, do, but, how, do, we, get people, to, be, aware, of, these, things because, it's, isn't, it, education, that, is how, we, get, through, this, it, is, education and, it's, also, a

you, know, a, level, of, respect, for, what, has come, before, not, necessarily, in, a must, be, revered, must, be you, know glorified, in, any, way, but, it, must, be understood because, if, you, like, you're, saying, you notice, patterns and, what, that, enables, you, to, do, is, when you, notice, those, same, patterns, repeating again, you, can bend, adjust, flex, away, from, it you, don't, end, the, pattern, you, redirect the, pattern, right, or, you, work, with, it and, you, kind, of, go, okay, what, is what, is, it, that, we, could, do to, essentially go, on, a, different, path, versus, just repeating, this, one, right, and, that's, a

big, thing, that, i, think, sometimes, in, web 3, we, kind, of, go yeah, everything's trash, let's, just, rebuild, everything everything's, new, again, new, pair new, paradigm, which, is, great, because that's, you, know, we're, enthusiastic, and we, want, to, do, these, things, and, it's wonderful, but, are, there, lessons, for, us to, learn in, that, process, so, that, we, don't, just again follow, that, same, pattern, go, down, the same, stuff, and, then, at, the, end, of, it, go did, it, again, right, there's, the, uh, the wheel, is, something, that, i, think, chris berniski, talked, about, where, like, you know in, the, future, we're, going, to, be, the boomers, and, like, our, kids, are, going, to be, like, you, know, you, guys, got, to, you know, you, guys, bought, bitcoin, before, it had, a, market, price, right, right, you, guys

got, ether, at, the, ico, what, did, you, do, you got, ether, before, they, were, you, remember when, you, got, into, ethereum, before, it was proof, of, stake, like, you, boomer, parents like, work, is, hard, now, like, things, things are, now, like, saturated, and, difficult, and just, like, the, same, complaints, that millennials, are, having, about, the, current institution, so, um, when, you, see, these governance, structures, because, governance is, all, of, the, rage, in, web, 3d, it, is governance, governance, governance, when airdrop, when, token, when, governance, token how, how, do, you, see, us, falling, into, the same, traps, if, we, if, you, do, see, us, doing that i, think one, of, the, main, things, and, certainly this, is, very, much, something, that, i'm interested, in from kind, of, a

a, multitude, of, different, perspectives i'm, obviously, um, uh, one, of, the, top delegates, in, bitcoin, in, ens, and, i, also um work, together, with, bitcoin, on, what, i like, to, call, governance, engagement because, right, now, governance and, engagement, are, like, this there's, a, lot, of, rubber, stamping, there is, a, lot, of there's high, high, lack, of, context for, different, conversations, happening and, decisions, being, made that, is, because, things, are, not transparent, things, aren't, necessarily easy, to, grasp, context, for and, also most, people, are, so, insanely, busy

that, to, dig, through, notions, discords, and all, of, this, to, gain, context, to, inform, a vote that, may, actually, influence, quite, a, few things is, quite, taxing, right, so, like, a, snapchat vote, comes, into, existence, and, like, the many, many, voters, of, this, snapchat, vote like, all, right, like, yes, or, no, right, and there's, like, there, is, perhaps, hours, and hours, of, like, debate, and, deliberation and, arguments, as, to, even, what, are, the parameters, of, this, vote, to, begin, with, or there, should, be, or, there, should, be, or, at least, with, the, people, that, put, this thing, to, a, vote, right, right, okay, these four, people, are, talking, about, this governance, decision, and, they're, they, are the, experts, in, like, the, yes, and, the, no cases, but, they, need, to, give, it, to, the

community, because, that's, what decentralized, governance, is, but, then, the community, is, like, they, spent, 30, seconds reading, the, snapshot, and, they, don't, know the, extent, of, the, details, and, they, don't know, the, impact, and, that's, a, problem because, if, i, want, to have, context, to, be, able, to, make, an informed, decision that's, incredibly, important, and, you would, do, that, in, you, know, in, any, other area, of, your, life, you, would, want, to, know what, you, are, making, a, decision, about, and so with, regards, to, and, coming, back, to, your original, question, how, could, we perhaps, make, those, same, mistakes, is, that again, we, go, in, this, direction, where voting, remains, binary, there, is, no respect, for, nuance, there, is, no, respect

for let's, say, the, in in-between, the, maybe the ambiguity, because, a, lot, of, things, that we're, dealing, with, right, now, it's, okay for, them, to, be, ambiguous, for, a, while until, we, figure, out, how, they, can, be clearer, and, simpler, and, easier, to, make, a yes, no, decision, on, and, so with, that, in, mind, i, think, being comfortable, with ambiguity, and, being, comfortable, with nuance, and, a, spectrum, of decision, making, and, a, spectrum, of uh, discussion, versus, just, no, it, has, to be, this, or, the, other is, important, to not, only, think, about, but, also, weave, into

the, processes, that, we're, putting, in place, like, i, love, a, standard, obviously um, but, i, think, that's, important especially, when, you, navigate, various different, dials, like, for, me, even in, these, major, two, that, i, am one, of, the, main, delegate, in it's, hard, because, they're, structured differently, right, and, they, have, a different, flow, for, the, governance, right not majorly, different but, different, importantly, right and, so, i, think for, for, us, to, be, able, to, really, have, the context, and, be, able, to, make, the, right decisions it's, important, to, have, a, flow, that, is uniform, is, not, the, right, word something, that, enables

that, access, again in, a, very, right right, um so there's, the, there's, one way, to, tackle, this, problem, which, is, like just, making, governance, easier, yes, like being, able, to, make, the, nuance, more digestible, the, debate, more, digestible but, the, other, solution, is, just, like let's, just, centralize, it, let's, just, say like, centralize, the, governance, yeah, but we, don't, want, that, but, but, why, is, that bad, because, like, yeah, we, call, these things, dows, but, they're, like, most, of them, they're, not, autonomous, they're definitely, not, autonomous and, they're, definitely, not, decentralized i, really, call, them, digital, organizations now, the, cool, unlock, is, the, actual decentralized, part, yes, but, we, don't, have that, yet, so, like, why why, can't, we, just, like, have, the

centralized, governance, while, we, figure this, out because, i, think, you, want, to, and look, we, are, in, a, very, difficult situation, right, now, just as, an, ecosystem, because, we're, so embedded, in, the, current, world, whilst trying, to, build, a, new, one, and, so, you're almost constantly, enmeshed, in the, current, way, of, doing, things, whilst trying, to, envisage, what, the, new, stuff will, be, so, it's, hard, it's, a, continuous exercise, and, you, almost, have, to, do, that daily, practice, that, daily, exercise, to maintain whatever, it, is, that, you, want, to, build right, that, muscle, mass, sure, maybe, or those, habits, to, build, those, new, pathways and, those, two, habits, i, think, the

important, piece, is, to, have the, right either, groups, or, structures, dealing, with different, stages of, the, flow and, that's, the, thing, that, can, unlock that, decentralization where, you, put, things, you, know, imagine, a river, right, because, where, in, amsterdam imagine, all, of, these, bridges, and, all, of those, bugs, at, each, one, you, have, a different, checkpoint, almost, and, then, the whole, thing, becomes, clearer, and, it evolves, and, it, involves, conversations, it involves, dialogue, it, involves, certain amounts, of, decisions, but, not, a, yes, no right, and, you, evolve, it, that, way, but, to create, that, flow, you, have, to, look, at okay

who, is, going, to, be, involved what, is, the, end, goal, how, long, can, this take what, is, the, process, will, it, be, different for, certain, types, of, proposals, when, will it, be, different, for, others when, you, have, something, to, do, with, a budget, with, a, treasury, does, that, go, on, a different, path, versus, one, that, has, to, do with, i, don't, know, removal, of, stewards from, right, and, you, have, to, map, all, of that, out, and, i, always, always, use, this analogy, because, i, think, it's, so important, when, you, go, to, an, amusement park, you, see, the, map, of, everything, that is, there, and, you, know, where, you're, going and, you, know, how, to, get, there, and, you know, if, that, is, where, you, want, to, get, to or, you, want, to, go, here, in, fact, or, there or, stop, halfway, through, there, right, and

we, don't, really, have, that, right, now, and that, should, be, something, that, is, almost because, we, talk, about, doubt, tooling, oh my, god, dow, tooling, now, tooling, downtown downtown, it's, raining, doubtfuls, but, i think, it's, important, again, to, look, at those, and, create, those, mindfully, and from, a, place, of, experience, like, for, me, i see, the, pain, on, both, sides, i'm, working on governance, engagement, but, i'm, also, a steward, and, i, know, that, for, instance, the other, week, like, two, weeks, ago, i, was focusing, so, much, on, that, and, creating shelling, point, that, i, dropped, the, ball in, my, ns, duties for, a, week right right, because, that's, what, happened, right yeah, dude, which, is, fine, right

in, a, decentralized, world, knows, they're going, to, drop, right right, right, and, so figuring, out, how, to, make, sure, that, that isn't, a, tragedy, or, that, isn't, something that, breaks, something is right, is, something, that, we, need, to, bake into, the, whole, flow, because, we, are humans the, whole, dow, governance, thing, should, be fluid, because, again using, the, river, and, the, flow, and, all, of that, it, has, to, be, fluid, it, has, to, flow it, has, to, enable, people, to, kind, of, go, oh okay i, can't, do, this, at, the, moment, but, i'm okay, to, come, back, in when, i, have, more, focus, when, i, can dedicate, more, time, okay, so, just, i, want to, recap, all, of, that, i, think, both, for

the, listeners, and, also, for, my, own benefit, the, answer, to, like, why, not centralize, is, because, of, obvious, reasons and, the, alternative, is, micro centralization, in, pockets, which, i, think are, like, committees, where, like, you, you talked, about, these, certain, proposals such, as, if, we're, talking, about, a treasury, like, a, treasury, proposal, as, and we, are, going, to, do, this, with, the treasury, uh, and perhaps, like, we, can, have, two, different versions, it's, like, if, this, proposal, is above, ten, thousand, dollars, or, below, ten thousand, dollars, it, can, go, the, river will, split, right, right, and, it, will, go, to this, committee, first, and, then, this committee, will, right, tinker, with, this part, of, the, proposal, maybe, this, is, the clarity, and, definitions, committee, and the, clarity, and, definitions, committee, do their, work, one, of, there, maybe, there's four, nodes, for, council, members, of, that

particular, cabinet, of, sorts, and, then once, they're, done, they, pass, it, off, to another, node, which, does, the uh, i, don't, know, the, the, allocation, of funds, committee, or, something, right, and it, goes, it, follows, flows, down, this, river and, you, always, ensure, that, those, little pockets, have, the, right, representation, in them, yes, right, okay, so, like, micro centralization, as, in, like, all, right, four people, have, their, role, in, responsibility four, people, have, the, block, i, wouldn't even, call, it, centralization, i, would, call it delegation specialized, delegation, specialized delegation, i, think, we, mean, the, same thing, i, think, that, i, think, that's, a semantics, difference, but, it, sounds better, but, it, definitely, sounds, better it, definitely, sounds, better, uh, and, so okay, so, we, have, like, this, like, mesh network, of, like, a, river, and, the, concept

of, a, river, is, that, it, always, flows downstream, right, like, water, will, always go, where, it's, easiest, for, it, to, go uh, and, like, right, now, when, i, say, like dows, aren't, autonomous, rivers, are autonomous, right, like, they, just, go and, so, uh, one, of, my, bull, cases, for dalles, not, dallas's, concept, but, the, dows that, are, the, most, bullish, are, the, ones that, lower, the, threshold, for participation, down, to, the, bare, minimum right, like, how, can, you, make, a, verifiable contribution, yep, in, the, easiest, possible way, yep, uh, and, so, if, we're, gonna, extend this, to, governance, it's, like, how, can, we make, sure, that, the, governance, proposals always, go, downhill, whether, or, not they're, accepted, like, maybe, downhill means, it's, rejected, but, like, a, rejection is, a, choice, either, way, like, successful governance, can, reject, a, choice

absolutely, so, how, do, we, make, like, a governance, proposal, hit, all, these subcommittees, to, refine, and, digest, and uh, do, all, these, things, with, these governance, and, make, sure, the, thing always, flows, downhill, so, that, it, comes to, a, conclusion, because, i, think, so, many of, dow, governance, right, now, is, like, we forget, to, come, to, a, conclusion, on, a, lot of, things, like, it, it, gets, lost, in, the river, or, we, rush, to, a, conclusion, right and, sometimes, that's, not, necessarily, a good, conclusion, or, it's, not, necessarily thought, of, as, much but, keeping, it as, you, say, on, that, path, i, think, that's where potentially those, standards, that, you, put, in, place come, in because, then, it's, almost, like, the, banks

of, a, river, sure, right, right, and, you create, that, versus, just, like, letting, it spell, all, over, the, place, in, which, case again, with, the, river, you, lose, control and, it, damages, the, rice, yeah, yeah, it turns, out right and, so, what, you, want, is to, have, that, and, because, you, were, saying with, the, flow, of, water, obviously, you have, like, the, whole, bruce, lee, thing, be water, my, friends, like, all, of, that, right and, you, take, that, shaping, and, you, enable those, the, banks, of, the, river, to, be that, tooling, that, you, put, in, place, but you, have, to, understand what the, substance, is, right, right, because, you could, make, the you, know, the banks, of, the, river, out, of, material, that

is, not conducive, to, the, flow, right, right, it could, be, too, porous, it, could, be, like breakable, it, could, and, then, the, river always, automatically, corrects, for, that because, the, river, will, erode, of, course the, broken, banks, voila and this, is, beautiful, this, is, so, i, mean, i'm i'm, impressed, with, us, right, now, also just, quick, side, quests rivers, are, inherently, decentralized right, and, so, like, top-down, government could, become, like, i, want, to, stop, this river, and, build, a, dam, but, all, dams, break over, time, like, we, can, just, route, around the, river, right, there's, that, meme, of just, like, governments, banning, bitcoin and, it's, like, the, fence, that, has, no edges, and, people, just, like, walk, around the, fence, same, thing, with, the, river, like you, can, you, can, dam, up, a, river, but, like over, the, long, time, frame, the, river

always, breaks, exactly, where, the, dam always, breaks, exactly, um, let's, take, this back, to, romania, and, governance, okay where, we, cut, off, the, head, but, then, the same, similar, shape, reappears, yes, how does, this, model, fix, that i, think, and, again, another, analogy, that, i i, particularly, like, is, this, um idea, of, the, puzzle, if, you, lose, you, know you're, making, jigsaw, puzzles, and, you lose, one, piece you, have, to, replace, it, with a, piece, that, is, exactly, the, same, shape exactly, the, same, pattern, exactly, the same, sure so, what, we, are, doing, is, we're, scrapping that, puzzle, or, at, least, the, image, that's in, that, puzzle, and, starting, from, scratch

because, if, you, just, remove, the, piece, one piece, the, head the, rest, keeps, it, right, so, you, have, to put, the, void, still, has, the, same, shape same, shape, yeah, and, so, my, hope, is, that what, we're, all, doing, here, is, actually redesigning, and, re-planning, a, whole, new puzzle learning, from, how, puzzles, work learning, from, how, long, it, potentially takes, what, type, of, thing, you, need, in there, what, type, of, material, what, type, of whatever but, it's, a, different, image, it's, maybe, a different, structure, maybe, it's, 3d, one hopefully, it's, a, 3d, one, that's, a lot more, right, so, you're, kind, of, evolving, it and, again, that, evolution, from, your, very basic, one

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original, dow, by, the, way, uh, will, start, to start, to, incorporate, some, of, the, models and, the, efficiencies, that, we, innovated and, developed, with, dow, governance, yes uh, tarun, gave, the, example, of, how, he thinks, that, it's, really, going, to, be, the finance, sector, that, comes, first, where like, a, lot, of, financial, contracts, use price, prices, of, a, certain, thing, at, a certain, time, uh, to, be, embedded, into, the contract, right, and, this, is, like, we, just agreed, that, the, price, of, this, thing, is at, this, time, at, this, date, by, this, by this, oracle, which, is, like, the, nasdaq but, they, could, start, instead, of, using the, nasdaq, which, is, a, centralized company, with, with, that, kind, of, a gameable, system, yep, instead, you, could use, the, oracle, of, uniswap, yeah, and, you what, we're, doing, is, we're, taking, out, the nasdaq, puzzle, piece, and, we're

re-implanting, the, uniswap, puzzle, piece in, this, place and, it's, and, his, theory, is, that, over time, we're, gonna, find, more, and, more, ways to, swap, out, old, puzzle, pieces, yeah, new puzzle, pieces, until, you, create, a, new puzzle, until, you, create, a, new, puzzle right, from, from, the, inside, out, do, you have, any, thoughts, on, that so again, i, think, it's, it's, really, really interesting, um thinking, about, because, you, mentioned, the financial, system, and, because, we, chat about, money, it's, really, interesting, to to, remember, that, we, came, up, with, that whole, thing and, we, just, perpetuated, in, the, normal system, now, in, the, world it, was, decided, at, some, point but, we, can, always, change, our, minds, and decide, something, else

and, this, is, something, that, for, a, lot, of people i, guess even, sometimes, when, they, come, into, our space, or, into, the, web3, space it's, very, difficult, to, really, get comfortable, with, the, fact, that, that, is just, a, decision, some, people, made, at, this one, time, right, it's, not, it's, not, canon you're, not, contractually, bound, to, do anything people, just, agreed, that, the, us, dollar was, gonna, have, some, value, people, just agreed, that, this, other, thing, was, gonna have, value, that's, all, it, is, it's, an agreement and, we, are, making, new, agreements, and, we can, make, new, agreements, and, we, should make, new, agreements, if, the, ones, that have, been, in, place, are, no, longer, serving

us because, that's, what, you, would, do, if, a car, if, you, had, a, car that, broke, down, as, much, as, the, current financial, system, yeah are, you, joking, they, would, remove, it, from the, market, it, would, be, a, death, trap we've, had, more, systemic, crises, in, the financial, system, since, i, don't, know, when they, started, measuring, it, right, but, it's 50, 60, across, the, world, and, again, think about, the, analogy, of, a, car, it, broke, down that, much, you'd, be, like, i'm, not, getting into, that, death, trap, i, need, to, buy, a, new one how, do, you, think, about, um, the, rate, of change, right, because the, younger, generations, the, millennials especially, zoomers, seem, to, be, in, their

own, world, but, they're, going, to, get, the brunt, of, this, eventually probably, once, they, graduate, from, college but, like, the, rate, of, change, of, the, world seems, to, be, not, not, be, satisfactory, for a lot, of, the, younger, folk, yeah, i, mean and, so, like, they're, just, asking, for change, now, now, now, now, meanwhile, the other, half, of, the, of, the, world, like, the older, folk, the, boomers, are, like, this, is pretty, gucci, we, kind, of, like, we, kind, of like, where, things, are, right, now we, don't, have, the, speed, limit, this, is nice, right, let's, cruise, no, shape, no faster, change, like, no, more, change, like, i haven't, even, figured, out, my, iphone, yet how, do, you, think, about, this, conflict i, again, i, always, say, balance, in, all things, um, i, think nature, if, you, look, at, nature, and, again, i love, all, of, everything, that, comes, with

biomimicry, i, love, everything, that, we, can learn, from, nature, in, the, way, it, behaves and, in, the, way, it, does, things, because it's, very, clever and, there's, this, thing, in, nature, called the optimum, window, of, viability where, it's, in, between, diversity, and efficiency, and, it's, always, in, the, middle point what, we, tend, to, do, is, always go, way, too, efficient anything, happens, restriction, sanctions like, every, austerity, you, always, go, way too, efficient and, you, disturb, the, balance too, much, diversity, is, also, bad, because then, that, doesn't, work, because, there's too, much, right, there's, no, coordination but, in, the, middle, that's, where, the, sweet

spot, is now, in, terms, of, the, piece, of, change, i think, if, we, again, look, at, evolution if, a, fish swam, up, on, the, shore, and, suddenly, grew, a leg, out, of, its, gills, that, would, not be, very, good because it, it, would, die, right, it, wouldn't, evolve but, slow, evolution, little, by, little ensures, that, it, can, become a, successful, new, species, a, successful new thriving, organism but, it, takes, time, because, it, needs, to take, into, account, all, of, the, elements that, it, needs, to, build, and, build, well you, rush, one

you're, like, i, don't, know, one, side, is lopsided, and, again it's, not, conducive, to, thriving, so, i think, if, we, can, get, to, that, point, where we, balance, out, the, speed, because, we, do need, to, move, right, we, can't, just, be, like i'll, be, fine, and, learn, because, again things, aren't, rosy, in the, real, world, right so, i, think, if, we, can, reach, that, balance of, doing, things, mindfully, and, doing things, properly, that, we, don't, cut corners, very, important but, we, move because, stagnation, is, also, not, good right, do, you, think, we, have, time, like global, warming, is, not, being, solved, by nation, states, no, and, it's, not, i, think

that's, generally, a, thing, that, most people, across, outside, the, crypto industry, would, agree, with, like, no, one's really, taking, nation, states, seriously granted, it's, not, like, the, cryptos, do industries, doing, anything, for, that, but we, kind, of, think, that, we, can so, but, also, do, we, have, the, time, to actually, be, methodical, about, this, and not, rush, this i, think i, think, it's, almost, a, conversation around having, that, urgency, but, not, making mistakes, because, you're, on, under pressure which, again, is, is, not, easy, like, we're not, in, an, easy, situation, it's, a, big, ass right, go, like, okay, so, the, world, is, gonna

end, so, but, you, need, to, be, like, you, know make, sure, you, focus, so, look, it's, not easy, but, i, think, it's, one, of, the, main reasons, why, we're sort, of more, and, more, people, are, coming, into, the space, because, like, okay, okay, but, this, is how, we, can right, and, this, is, what, at, the, end, of, the day, this, is, what, the, web, 3, piece, is about, it's, that, choice, it, is, that alternative, because for, so, long, we, had, none, right, and, we were, just, stuck, with, that, track, right and, that, was, it you, can, do uh, you, know turn, things, up, and, down, over, here, and, up and, down, over, here, but, really, it's, the same road, now, we, have, a, chance, to, a, new, one

and, all, obviously, with, a, new, path, you have, to you, know, remove, some, thorns, pave, it, do all, of, these, things, and, we're, doing, it whilst we're, carving, carving, it, so, hard and, it, takes, a, lot, of, people, because, you need, everybody, involved, to, be, able, to get, to, where, you, want, to, go, right, hence dev, connect, right, yeah um, why, can't, we, cut, corners, why, why can't, we, cut, corners, to, get, there because, look, at, what, cutting, corners, has got, us, into, everybody, has, been, cutting corners, for, like, decades, for, generations the, point, that, i'm, making, there, is i, think, the, technology, that, we're building, is, so so, powerful that, if, we, enable, back, doors, cut, corners

to, you, know, deliver, for, vcs, a, little, bit faster, don't, quite, focus, ah, privacy all, of, that, right, we, need, to, ship again, the, balance, it's, important, yes move, yes, ship but, don't, sacrifice, the, principles to, go, get, your, vcs, some, returns because, that's, what, everybody, has, been doing okay, my, next, question, was, going, to, be what's, the, corner, that, you, see, being, cut the, most, but, would, that, be, your, answer like, optimizing, for, business, i, think privacy, and, security, privacy, and security what, security, mean just, think, about, the, amount, of, projects that, have, like, one, the, first, version, of the, contract, audited, and, then, they, say

they're, audited, but, they've, had, like five, cents, right okay, so, we're, talking, about, bug, exploits just, a, plethora, of, risks, that, is, just not exposed, not, addressed, not, even, thought about and, it's, important, right, you're, building these, new, things, and, we've, seen, so, many recently, oh, this, oh, here's, another, one oh, here's, another, exploit, oh, this broke, and it's, everyone's, just, exploited, it doesn't, matter, oh, is, that, the, trend, oh yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah damn, i, didn't, get, excellent, oh right, right, is, it, a, rite, passage, i i don't, think, it, should, be okay, the, other, one, was, privacy, yeah, um

how, are, we, cutting, coordinates, on privacy, i, mean, just i, think, the, concept, of, privacy, has, been so, diluted, and, so i, don't, even, know, what, the, word, is, but almost we've, just, become, so, detached, from, what privacy, actually, means, that, for, a, lot, of people, as, we, know, you, know, why, do, you need, privacy, if, you, have, nothing, to, hide that, type, of, thing, it's, like, well, no that, is, not, what, privacy, should, be, about privacy, is, a, human, right, and, you, should not, be, tracked, for, things, that, you, spend on, and, you, shouldn't, be, tracked, for everywhere, you, go, and, you, shouldn't, your face, shouldn't, be, scanned, by, ever, a supermarket, checkout, are, you, joking

what but, again, is, that, an, erosion, of, and people, are, so, comfortable, giving, away, so much, of, their, stuff, at, all, times, that actually, now, there's, this, process, of having, to, claw, it, back and, for, a, lot, of, people, it's, like, yeah but, why, bother, there's, like, so, much, out there, already it'll, be, fine but, again, getting, back, into, a, place where, our, identity, isn't, correlated, with our, money, and, everything, else, so, that, a simple, switch through, a, back, door, of, an, application can, just, cut, your, access, to, everything it's, bad, i'm, uh, i'm, reminded, of, i'm, a clear, member, because, there, was, one, time

i, was, not, going, to, make, my, flight, and, so i, had, to, sign, up, for, clear, the, security line and, all, you, have, to, do, is, go, and, get your, irises, scanned, and, boom, your, name comes, up, with, your, birthday, and everything, and, every, time, i, do, that, i'm like, that's, going, to, come, back, to, bite me, in, the, butt, one, day, it, really, will and, i, love, that, you, spend, those, seconds to, think, about, that, and, then, like, and carry, and, then, get, on, the, flight, right yeah oh, well, well, at, least, i'm, not, gonna, miss my, flight silver, lining, everywhere, right, no, but it's, that, right, and, we've, been, so, pushed to, think, or, like of, course, you, realize, that's, like probably, not, okay, but, like, what, can, you do, but, it's, we've, so, been, pushed, to being, comfortable, with, all, of, this, stuff

that, the, moment, like, status, perfect example, the, moment, you, kind, of, go actually, let's, build, the, whole, thing, as a, pseudo-anonymous, thing, that, doesn't require, a, password, a, phone, number, of, who you, are, people, go, oh, this, is, hard, right doesn't, make, sense, oh, when, i, can't, pull all, of, my, contacts, from, my, address, book on, my, phone well, this, is, a, bit right, can, you, let's, go, into, the, full status, shield, mode, can, you, get, can, you give, the, listeners, and, me, the, the, pitch for, status what, is, it, and, what, does, it, do, and, why is, it, good, status, was, obviously, one, of the, first, um, players, in, the, mobile wallet space, back, in, 2017, and, then, they, also started, building, a, chat, and, the, idea

with, it, and, a, web3, browser, the, idea, for me, is, that, now, it, is, perfectly, poised that, stack, is, perfectly, poised, to, create spaces, for, the, web, 3, community, to actually, switch, from, the, centralized tooling, that, they, use to, a, web, 3, native stack space, app, whatever, it, is, that, is, going to, become, so, one, of, the, things, that, i came, in, back, in, 2020, again, and, we, say it's, important, to, have, that, balance between, speed, of, shipping, and, doing, it properly, um i, propose, this, feature, of, the communities, feature, that, is, now, being worked, on, but, there's, obviously, so, many implications, in, that, where, if, you, are going, to, have, let's, say, hundreds, of

thousands, of, people, on, it, you, want, that messaging, reliability, to, be, on, point which, right, now, it, is, not, okay, you, want the, design, to, flow, right, now, it, does, not it, needs, a, refresh, it, needs, like updating, it, needs, a, lot, of, things, but even, something, as, simple, as pulling from, the, openc, api, to, show, your, nfts, in your, wallet, that's, technically let's, say, an, infringement, on, your privacy, right, because, you're, like, i'm finding, things, out, about, you but, the, point, is, the, user, should, make that, decision give, the, option, right, and, then, for, those who, don't, care, that, much, right, just, paul right, for, those, who, do go, and, via, the, browser, to, access, your

opencv and, it's, those, little, things, that actually, make, a, big, difference, and, it's important, to, make, sure, that, when, you, do build, it, like, that, you, do, take, your sweet, time, but, again, urgency, is, needed there, sure so, that's, that and, uh again, that, connecting, us, back, to, like real, world, uh, stuff, back, in, the, uh, the uh, revolution, uh, what, was, it, what, was the, revolution, called, drag, my, memory, the of, the, so, the, whole, kind, of, sequence, of events, in, the, uh, in, the, eastern, bloc, was the, proc, it, started, with, the, prague spring, right, and, then, all, of, them, kind of, right, and, so, the, fact, that, it, went off, like, fireworks, right, like, it, was like it, was, like, ready, to, go right, and, it, just, needed, this, one, thing

to, light, them, out, yes uh, what, was, missing, probably, was, like, a messaging, network, of, people, who, were like, to, disseminate, are, you, are, you tired because, i'm, tired, of, this and, if, we, had, a messaging, network, that, was, private people, would, have, been more uh, comfortable, communicating, their descent, communicating, and, congregating and, being, able, to, coordinate, yes, because innovation, technology, exactly, and, it's important, and, this, is, the, thing, and again we're, drawing, parallels, here, between, you know, uh late, 80s, early, 90s, and, where, we, are, now but, if, you, think, back, then you, had, landlines, and, the, phone, was probably, bugged, 100, couldn't, trust, it

right you, couldn't, say, oh, meet, me, there, we're gonna, like, we're, gonna, throw, some, blow up, the, russians, yeah, no, way and, now you're, in, the situation, where, you, have, all, of, these like, privacy messaging, applications, privacy used, in, the, loosest, of, terms, right, that again, if, you, think, of, most, of, them, it has, your, phone, number, right, you, know what, your, phone, number, tells, about, you your, address, who, you, are, everything so, unless, everybody, has, burner, phones which, i, doubt, that, they, do we're, not, that, far, off, okay, it's, not, as nefarious, or, as, uh, entrenched, as, it, used to, be but, maybe, it, is

that's, all, i'm, saying, and, then, if, you start, and, again, this, isn't, necessarily about, and i, think, that's, the, other, perception, that you, will, always, use, these, things, to, do bad, things right, no, just, you, can, have, consciousness for, the, drugs, right, like, all, of, the things, that, can, be, bought, with, us dollars, and, have, been, for, generations right, yeah, all, of, the, good, stuff, but it's, that, thing, that, perception, and maybe, that, again, has, been, the, narrative that, has, been uh publicized, of, oh, these, guys, that's, why they're, using, it, for, like, bad, things come, on, i, just, want, to, have, a conversation, about, things, that, i, maybe not, don't, agree, with, or, i, want, to, have, a conversation, to, be, able, to, coordinate

some, sort, of protest, movement, whatever, something, that does, not, agree, with, my, values, and, my human, rights, there's, so, many, countries in, the, world, where, you, need, people, to also, be, protected, journalists, because, we brought, up, russia, because, we, bring, up all, of, these, different, countries, where journalists, are, genuinely, at, risk, right all, the, time you, want, to, be, able, to, offer, a, space, a safe, space, for, them, to, be, able, to speak, to, their, sources, speak, amongst each, other, be, able, to share, information, be, able, to, share situations, that, would, put, them, in, a safer, place than, they, are, right, now, i, mean, all, of these, things, it, it

that, perception, of, it's, always, bad, is simplistic, and, a, lot, of, it, is, um, dare, i say, just it, potentially, can, be, dangerous, for, all of, those, people, who, need, that, protection certainly certainly, victims, of, abuse again, there's, endless um, simona, what, about, the, current, state of, the, crypto, industry, makes, you optimistic i, think, everything, that, we and, and, this, is, this, is, a, great, segue because, obviously, um, one, of, the, main reasons, why, um i'm, at, devconnect, not, only, to, um, support and, speak, at, the, different, events, but also, i'm, curating, shelling, point, again yes, so, shellingpoint, amsterdam, um, it's

happening, on, thursday, and for, me, and, this, is, the, way, i've, kind, of designed, the, experience, is, for, it, to genuinely, be, that, antidote to, a, lot, of, the, events, that, we're, seeing popping, up, now, and, that, usually, tend, to happen, in, a, bull, market, that, are all, flash, no, substance, and, kind, of, gross from, what, i've, heard, described, as, a, pile of, money, searching, for, a, soul with, a, hint, of, dumpster, fire, right, right so, i, think, a, really, really, important thing, to, keep, in, mind, is, that, we, must protect, and um elevate the, conversations, around, what, we, are

genuinely, changing, and, where, we're, going and, that's, what, i, want, shelling, point, to be, that's, kind, of, what, we, did, in, denver a, little, bit, but, this, time, around, i'm doing, we, have almost, three, hours, of, workshops, just, on climate, and, what, web, 3, is, doing, on climate, and, bringing, all, of, the, projects working in, that space, to, have, these, hands-on, workshops chat, about, things, have, conversations involve, the participants, into whatever, the, solution, may, be, right we, also, focus, a, lot, a, lot, on, again discussing, this, governance, situation discussing, public, goods, how, are, we moving, the, needle, how, are, we, progressing

things, discussing, decentralized, science discussing, all, of, these, things, that, we need, to, be, focusing, on, because, that's the, stuff, that, actually, matters, that's the, stuff, that's, going, to, evolve, us, from here, to, there, not, a, sprinkle, of, cash, and like, a, party parties, are, great, don't, get, me, wrong and, the, shelling, point, one, is, gonna, be amazing, but, um, it's, important, to, have those, conversations, and, delve, deep, into those, conversations, and, i'm, playing, a little, bit, with, the, format, as, well because, after, so, many, conferences, i, am bored, two, tiers, of, the, traditional format, and, so, what, i've, asked, all, of, the speakers, to, do, is, to, do, 50, 50, in, terms of, their, content, 50, can, be, you, talk about, whatever, you, use, you, wanna, talk

about, the, other, half, you, involve, the audience, i, don't, care, if, you, do, yoga with, them, i, don't, care, if, it's, plain, q, a do, something where, it, is a, collaborative, effort, everything, that we're, doing, it, isn't, the, work, of, one person, it's, not, the, work, of, ten everybody, has, a, contribution, to, make, and everybody, can, and, should, feel comfortable, making, that, contribution, and figuring, out, what, is, on, that uh, what's, a amusement, park, map everybody, should, see, the, whole, map, and decide, where, they, want, to, go and, how, they, want, to, get, there what, are, you, looking, in, addition, to, all of, your, work, at, shelling, point, which

maybe, is, taking, up, a, majority, of, your time, here, but, what, else, are, you, looking to, get, done, here, here, at, devconnect, so, i think, it's, it's, a, lot, um, of again catching, up, with, a, lot, of, the, stuart, so because, of, the, work, that, i, do, with, with bitcoin, around, um, governance, there's, a lot, of, the, stewards, uh, particularly, uh in, bitcoin, and, in, the, new, stuart, council um, that, we, created, a, lot, of, them, are here, in, person, and, i, think, it's important, again, to, have, that, connection because we, do, have, a, lot, a, lot, of um, let's, say, flows, that, we're, putting together together, right, and, we're, figuring, out hey, does, this, work is, this, better, did, we, achieve, something here, that, is, moving, us, closer, to, that

flow, of, the, river, to, that, more structured, uh, pattern, and, i, think uh, in, addition, to, that, of, course, there's also, so, that's, important, to, have, those governance, conversations, also, irl, right and, then, be, able, to, take, them, to, the online, realm, and, be, okay, here's, where we've, decided, we're, going, to, observe this, for, a, while, and, then, improve, it, but of, course, also, east, amsterdam, i'm, a perpetual, judge, of, the, if, global, circuit and, i, absolutely, love, seeing all, the, new, projects, i'm, excited, every single, time, especially, after, a, week, like this how, inspired, will, those, people, be what, will, they, take, from, everything, that they've, listened, to, that, they

participated, in, what, would, they, take, to genuinely, create, something, that, is better, that, is getting, us, that, is, a, stage, of, evolution a, new, lego, a, new, lego, and, you, like, that yes, yes, yeah, yeah, um so, at, bank, list, we, often, say, like, hey, go go, work, for, a, dow, and, it, sounds, like, you you, work, for, at, least, two, dolls, if, not more, yeah, uh, for, for, the, people, that, uh that, here, ryan, and, i, say, go, work, for, a dao, from, our, privileged, position, of having, the, centralized, company, uh what's, it, like, to, work, for, a, doubt, like and, do, you, get, compensation, for, the dolls, that, you, work, for, like, is, this this, is, how, you, you, buy, groceries, so right, now, actually, this, is, a fortuitous, uh, event, because, i, am

actually, now, transitioning, into uh the, git, coin, down where i'm, gonna, get, paid, by, the, different, work streams within, the, dow, so, for, instance, i, because i, do, the, content, curation, i, did, the content, creation, for, a, shelling, point there, is, a, certain, amount, that, will, be allocated, to, me, for, that, work, okay then, the, stuff, that, i, do, with, governance engagement, will, come, from, another, work stream, then, i, also, help, out, with, funding public, goods, there's, a, lot, of relationships, that, i, have, and, we, pull funds, for the, grants, rounds, that, is, going, to, come from, another, stream, so, it, really, is, this very, interesting, and, multifaceted again, taking, that, whole, thing, of, streams

into, a, river, type, uh, dynamic, of what, is, it, that, you, contribute, to, and what, is, the, level, of, that, contribution and, that's, how, it, flows, and, do, you, feel that, the, dows, that, you, are, are, part, of how, would, you, rate, their, adeptness, as, to properly, balancing, contributions, to we're, just, getting, started, okay okay, a, lot, of, that, needs, to, be, improved and, a, lot, of, that, it's, fine, that, we don't, know, when, we, haven't, figured, it out, yet, and, and, again, coming, back, to that, thing, of, like, being, comfortable, in ambiguity, and, not, feeling, like, we, have to, get, it, right, from, the, beginning because, every, single, time, we, kind, of miss, something, or, we, don't, do, it, right and, so, on, it, just, enables, us, to, improve on, it, to, do, it, better, to, make, it, a

little, bit, more, transparent, to, make, it, a little, bit, more, accessible, to, make, it, a little, bit less taxing, nice, but, like, yeah, nice um, yeah, contributions, over, taxes they're, the, same, thing, but, one, people like, word, that, one, word, much, better, than the, other um uh, what, was, gonna, be, my, last, game, yeah so, for, the newer, newer, comers, to, the, crypto, space people, that, came, in, 2020, or, beyond, or more, recently, welcome, well, yeah, welcome thank, you, for, being, here but, we're, so, glad, you're, here, what advice, do, you, have, to, help, these, people actually, stay, in, the, crypto, space, and why, should, they, stay, in, the, crypto, space i, think, definitely, make, sure, that, um and, again man, this, is, going, to, be, your, most

analogy, laden, episode, oh, i'm, not, so, sure about, that, oh, really, oh, yeah, we're pretty, hard, on, this, okay okay so, i'll, keep, going, um, so, i, think, again with, that, whole, idea, of, the, path, right we, there's, this, one, that, just, is established, and, everything, and, when, you start, off, a, different, path it's, gonna, be, a, little, bit, trickier you're, gonna, have, some, obstacles, in, the way, you're, gonna, have, to, be, like, a little, bit, more, uncomfortable, and, like, i say, there's, like, some, stinging, nettles here, and, there, and, whatever a, frog, here, but, uh just, casually, laying, out, in, the, grass but, now, um for, me, it's don't feel, or, don't, give, in, to, feeling overwhelmed, or, being, scared, if

you, read, some, article, about, something, or if, you, go, into, a, discord, and, you, feel, uh this, isn't, really, my, vibe i, would, say, look, for, those, communities that, are, value, aligned, with, you, and, what you, want this, is, one, of, the, reasons, why particularly, with, bitcoin, right, there's so, many, people, coming, in, because, they are, genuinely, interested, in regenerative stuff, public, goods, solar, punk, stuff, like all, of, this, impact and, it's it's, that, value, alignment, that, really makes, that, ability, to, start, contributing so, much, easier, than, if, you, go, into, into let's, say, a, discord, that, you, found somewhere, and, that's, full, of

price, talk, and, all, of, this that, you, just, don't, feel, like, where, do, i even, start, what, do, i, do, i, even, want, to be, here, and, so, i, think, there's, that, kind of shock, sometimes, of, oh, i, didn't, think this, was, or, you, go, to, one, of, these events, that, i, mentioned, earlier not, the, good, ones, but, the, other, ones, and you, go, oh, is, this, what, crypto, is, all about, it's, not, it's, not um, and, so that, exploration, i, think, almost, have that, explorer, mindset go, and, look behind, this, go, and, talk, to, some, other people, who, are, also, on, this, path, with you, maybe, share, some, maps, okay, i've, got this, bit, you, have, that, bit, maybe, let's

do, things, together, colonel, also, is, a very, very, good, example, of, where, this, can be, done, right, uh, colonel, was, started, by one, of, the, the, bitcoin, uh, co-founders effect, and, it's, a, great, great, journey to, take, people, from, that, very, edge, of the, path, a, little, bit, further, it, won't take, you, all, the, way, but, it, will, take you and, enable, you, to, meet, some, people, to have, that, journey, to, take, that, journey together, so, explore, a, mindset, absolutely but, like, again, the, curious, nice, kind, not the, yes, invader, kind, of, yeah, of, course yeah, yeah, simona, thank, you, for, coming, on layer, zero, thank, you, so, much, this, has been, fun, cheers, and, i'll, see, you, all around, amsterdam, see, you, on, in, the, damn oh dinner

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