EVM + COSMOS

Transcript

thank you [Music] hello how's it going Friday please um thank you so much for for the invite really excited to get uh into the roadmap and talk about like a lot of spicy stuff with you today yeah uh well I'm also interested in getting into some spicy stuff if if you have some spice for me um so people are in the chat were saying that they can't hear me very well and I wonder if that's better can you hear me okay can you hear me okay yeah I can okay

great um so yeah so you were on four months ago this was uh around I guess it was around the merge and at that point um you know the there was there had been The Nomad hack uh not so long before that and uh I think you know for you guys it was a period where you know trying to get some footing also uh you know on on a number of things it really feels like in the last four or five months um a lot of the vision the utmost vision and road map has kind of cleared up at least that's my feeling um how would you say things have evolved

since you're last on uh in I guess it was October yeah I mean as you said we're definitely a more mature organization as a whole um our team has grown significantly in size and um we moved together from a startup phase to something that we're like working like a Swiss clock um in in the sense of like we're creating all these processes together um working together with engineering marketing you probably see saw our new marketing um related videos those are also from our new hire we also hired uh people in in product that can help us coordinate on and do more user research

try to identify what are the user needs and on how we incorporate that feedback directly into engineering or Business Development on our roadmap more in general so yeah I think as you mentioned we are more mature in terms of an organization and and I believe that the roadmap that we published last week definitely reflects that yeah we'll get into the road map um but roadmap has a lot I mean it does have a sort of feature and Technical Improvement aspect to it where you list some of the things that are expected to come in Atmos this year but I think beyond that it attempts to

lay out a vision for where evmos sits in the interchain and this is something even for me that you know when describing fmos to people or talking about it with uh you know investors or like builders in the space it wasn't super clear to me always what evmos's role would be in the broader interchain uh ecosystem and you know I always saw it as kind of a a a I guess a a hub if you will like not to borrow the cosmos hubs turn but you know a sort of Hub between the interchain and the evm world

um but you know we also have Bridges right who that can perform that function so yeah please like explain what is the vision that you guys are putting forth here in the manifesto and where you see atmos's role in the next like you know five years or something some some timeline like that yeah the the at most Manifesto basically on the roadmap in general that we prepared uh for this week basically allow outlines a future of uh more evm chains where the evm has become the dominant um like stock for building smart contracts there are more evm developers on any any

other um like stock like cosmoasm or or even like building application specific blockchains in Cosmos or in other ecosystems and so we see that in the future there will be like more needs for uh for evm specific chains where like the evm is catering to specific use cases um according to developer needs or business needs and so for these um we believe that in the future it's the multi-chain strategy that our ecosystem as a whole has been implementing uh where you have like applications being deployed on multiple chains like multiple instances of the

same application it's gonna it's not gonna be able to scale in the long run and on the opposite side where um proposing a future where you will be able to only deploy one instance of your smart contracts and fully interoperate via IBC um Bridges uh using the evm on an other interoperability mechanisms with um other not only smart contracts but also change in the ecosystem and thus expanding your Outreach as a developer to other ecosystems and other applications that you weren't able to leverage before for your business cases and so the utmost manifest too basically

outlines like like that Vision um that in the long term will have like a fully interoperable fully interoperable applications using IBC using evm Bridges and then in order to get there we need to work on certain engineering and Business Development components and this is basically what the FMS Manifesto outlines through these like fmos and the applications of the future can you explain then what these applications of the future would look like so there's like there's this chart there where you've got like Ave on ethereum and Cosmos and you know on Avalanche and all these other chains in

there separate and not connected and then there's there's the atmos Vision where Ave is on avmos and then that is I guess kind of leveraged to connect all these other chains what um can you explain like how that plays out practically speaking Yeah I see multiple examples of these obligations of the future today um and Cosmos on on how they're leveraging IVC and interoperability protocol that made Cosmos famous to kind of like create these um applications of the future um like one big question that I get a lot is like do you

um how do you build um tvl Native Leo nevmos um but I said like well osmosis TV on that like atmosis atmosphere on Atmos is sorry on osmosis um is high and we can like Leverage osmosis through for example osmosis Outpost that's a specific application of a future like where you build composability with uh projects or chains or decentralized applications that aren't available in your individual chain but you can connect to them and interoperate with MBI you see another concreted sample could be for example um like sommelier that is building these

kind of um evm sorry ethereum co-processor um they're directly connecting to ethereum Via a gravity Bridge instance and so by leveraging interoperability users and developers can access liquidity sources um applications smart contracts chains in general that weren't able to be reached before and so this is these are like two particular um examples of applications of the future and when we take that into the decentralized application Level on Smart contract level then we're talking about

okay by definition um all these D5 applications work as many Legos on ethereum what happens when you have Legos that you need for your application but there are not available on your chain what can you do if you don't have like an oracle service for example how can you leverage oracles that are available on other evm chains and for that we believe that in the future uh through interoperability you will be able to access these like uh applications via IVC for example and only use one single instance okay there's there's still some things that are like a bit unclear to me here so can you explain to practically

speaking you know let's use this this Ave example you know currently Ave is deployed on Main net ethereum they have contracts on other on other chains they have some sort of a bridging mechanism that allows liquidity to move between the ethereum chain and those those other sort of layer twos where Ave is is deployed also there once you know if you know fast forward and into the a future where your vision uh is is fully uh is fully deployed what would what would be different like what would that potentially look like like we expect that in the future

um as a developer instead of like choosing which uh obligation to or like which evm chain to develop your own Diva application um you have like one alternative which will be like developing on Atmos or another Atmos SDK chain and launching your instance there deploying your smart contract there and thus being accessible by the entire ecosystem in this case um we're talking about uh Ave and then if you deploy that other instance to Atmos then it will be accessible not only by um smart contracts that are available on evmos but they will also be available by smart contracts and D5 apps available on

other evm compatible chains there will be how they will be accessible by smart contracts uh from like Cosmo wassum I run compatible chains but and they will also be accessible um it will also be accessible by non-evm or non-smart contracts chains like for example Cosmos have at this moment or or Somalia is another example of an application that leverages smart contracts in this in this case like Ave on ethereum but through interoperability they can create like all these use cases as an application specific blockchain and so in the future you only have one instance that can

access all the entire ecosystem of application Chains No Matter What be it which VM you're using um and it will be like fully accessible by everyone okay I think it's starting to make sense to me so what it sounds like is it it's it's it sounds a little bit of like like the the vision of the cosmos SDK and the interoperability benefits that you get from building with the cosmos SDK but extended to the evm and what and what makes that possible is the fact that evmos um powered by you know Atmos SDK AKA ethermint allows IBC like

interoperability between uh well with with it all the EVMS all the smart contracts within the evm all the smart contracts within Cosmo was awesome chains and also uh non-ev not uh non-smart contract chains like for example in this case I I just named some of the cosmos Hub yes so I think I think I understand the the cosmos side and I think most of the listeners will kind of get how ethmos works with you know interoperability between Atmos and cosmosom contracts and any IBC chain works the part that's a little bit fuzzy for me is when you say

you know it's an evm uh SDK deployment sorry edmos SDK deployment would be interoperable with you know any smart contract on like a non-fmos SDK chain so like I don't know you've got a contract over on gnosis chain uh what makes that interoperability possible uh because in my current sort of mental framework you have to have some kind of a bridge there or like a ZK uh bridge that allows these changes to verify their state or something it doesn't quite exist yet but yeah so a thing like in the future there will be like and this is more like a prediction in

terms of like how the ecosystem like the cosmos ecosystem is evolving over time is that IVC is is going to be deployed uh on on non-cosmos chains as well like for the ones that have like Fast instant finality and they have bft consensus it would be like the preferred uh way of interoperating with it with other chains within like their ecosystem and also interoper with the chains in the ecosystem there will be adapters as well to other ecosystems like for example um uh I think what's the name composable is working on an adapter for IVC with the polka dot ecosystem so there'll be like single chains that will serve as

like the point of entry to those ecosystems so that we have like clusters of interoperability implementing different standards of interoperability and we believe at most is going to become this point of entry for the entire evm ecosystem um based on our our technology on on our yeah and I will develop her experience as well okay so so what you're saying is that like currently in in the but what you're saying is that this evm to evm interoperability uh would be possible be cost of IVC right it's not currently possible but it would be possible in the future that yeah so this level of

composability will be enabled uh due to IVC but a thing like it's Mark on um smart contract-based bridges on the EVMS and they're also transitioning slowly to interoperability that is not only like token transfers but also more like General like data calls uh cross-chain messaging messaging um I think like chain link is also building their own interpretability um they're also building their interoperability um standard um I know that oxlor is working towards this goal of like serving this General message passing uh between evm chains uh Paramore General level not only like

token transfers um so there will be multiple ways or multiple standards that Atmos application developers could use to to leverage this interoperability not only within the atmos on the cosmos ecosystem but also with the evm the pocketed ecosystem through these adapters um yeah and with the with the evmos evm is the idea here because you know I think our my mental model is is very much attached to the cosmos SDK model where you know the cosmos ckas are meant to be able to Launch um tenderment bft blockchains with you

know different modules that allow you to do things that most blockchains uh would do uh is the idea with the atmos SDK uh to uh also be this way to launch application specific chains so if I'm thinking of launching my own chain I want to launch like a D5 platform I I can say I want to build it with the Cosmos SDK or I want to build it with Atmos SDK because I think that my community will be more there's like a sub um specific difference in that regard and and yes you're right um well Atmos allows you to build your own um application specific logic um using

like Cosmos SDK modules the atmos SDK will allow um protocol developers to launch their evm specific chains um through this concept of evm extensions Custom pre-compiles Custom op codes um and so like taking the evm itself like the um which was traditionally maintained by go ethereum and the entire like ethereum ecosystem that but taking it to a more modular or general level that where you can change like all these components internally so that you can have an evm that is only allowing a chain to launch roll ups on top so you become the set of

a settlement layer for layer 2 Roll-Ups which is something that we outline on our seven most blog post where you can have like um an evm that is specifically working for nfts and you don't and you won't support any erc20s you want to support any other type of contracts other than the ones that support like nfts for example and so you can Define and customize these evm based on your specific needs here um and that's kind of like the goal of the Sak a way to create your own evm specific change your own evm extensions um and of course uh allowing developers on on projects to leverage our

um technical expertise that we build up uh evmos to launch EVMS so tell me a little bit more about this stuff most thing because I was talking to use my Ismail about it and like trying to figure out what is the use case that it serves and so for listeners uh sevmos is this Celestia evmos partnership uh where data availability and consensus is provided by Celestia the settlement layer is provided by evmos and then the execution layer would be some kind of ZK roll-up or optimistic roll up uh how does that compare to say you know when when making it when a

developer is faced with the with the design choice or the architecture choice of building a this this infrastructure why would they use this particular uh configuration over using fuel or using ethereum on top of it on Celestia or something so uh What uh at most SDK will allow and I was using sevmos as a particular example of an specific like evm specific chain targeted to layer 2 Roll-Ups um that will be specialized and only allow these configurations or these like extensions so to say um

and these um in the end is way more modular it's way easier it has all the necessary infrastructure like like rpcs IVC um like um evm extensions that we will develop internally as a team we will have like um components like the um like block Explorer and basic infrastructure necessary to Kickstart your project and so through this like Vision that we outline initially of like cross change that you will only be able to deploy once you won't need to you won't need to um build your these entire defy Legos on

your chain but you will be able to access them on other evm chains in the cosmos ecosystem on in the VM ecosystem like Atmos for example you'll be able to use this infrastructure directly via IVC so you can like quickly bootstrap your evm chain using the atmos SDK and through interoperability get access to these money logos that are so necessary for these uh developers to build new use cases foreign like I was in this particular case I was naming said most as an example of like how modular these Atmos SDK will be that

will be not only an evm for general purpose but for specific purposes build in a modular way where you would be able to Define all these extension all the configurations for dsdk and all the rules that you would want for these um EVN to fully work yes okay so but you but you see it's like the the sevo stack uh you see as more as something that would be right but but what I mean is will there be kind of a sevmos settlement layer in like one place where people can build Roll-Ups or do you think that seven most will be will have multiple instances and

multiple deployments on top of Celestia because of I don't know like I think though I think there will be multiple roll-ups with multiple settlement layers and seven months will be I guess one of the main evm um settlement layers on top of Celestia okay but I think it's too early to tell um project that is like um having hasn't been scoped down and there's like a lot of question smart question marks there um but it's kind of like an ex like in order to get to seveno so we need to

work on the modularity of the evm yeah and that's that's the first step that we're taking as an organization so I I guess my other question and this this kind of something I've been thinking a lot about lately is you know the the longevity of the evm and it I I think about it in in more you know 10 to 20-year um you know time Horizons so if we look at the history of computing there have been programming languages or programming environments that have come and gone so you know if you talk to people or parents age they'll probably tell you

that they were coding you know using Cobalt and Fortran and all these things and then you know in the 90s that was more like C and C plus plus and then later like web development Technologies emerge then every time we had improvements uh in those development environments and the tooling and also in the security and all these things now the evm is known for having you know a number of design and architecture issues with it that cause it to be insecure and difficult to uh like for the development environment and tooling is uh you know has to do a lot of the work in terms of making sure contracts are

um are sort of secure and and and so there have been improvements there in the form of like cosmopolism for example that is secure by Design where you know it's written in Rust it's written in this strongly typed language that eliminates a lot of those issues and when you think about blockchains in a more long-term you know like 10 15 year uh time Horizon do you think that the evm will still have stuck around by then or do you think it would have been phased out by newer more modern more secure and uh just better development environments yeah I think it's a good question I

think in the future and I'll tell you how I feel from my personal experience with the AVM um that in the future um the evm will become another product I think that ethereum is keeping a lot of things assets because of backwards compatibility but Atmos we see the evm as a product that can be definitely be improved and so um we see ideas like implementing ewas on as a concrete example of how we can leverage these newer Technologies on a stack that is like already there with other

um with all the tools necessary for developers to build um all these smart contracts and decentralized applications I mean he wasn't mostly a dead project is it not yeah but um for example implementing the evm directly on Cosmo awesome is something that would have the qualities of a more modular stock like using cosmoasm while at the same time develop retaining the developer use the developer experience at the AVM currently has with all the developer toolings and having it be fully VM compatible compatible also for the wallet so there won't be any migration so like performance will be improved and

so yeah that's how we see adamo's like the evm as a product where like and there's like the evm now and the evmo the future will evolve into a more robust product as a whole um and and and Atmos we plan to uh make such improvements like and and we are starting by doing the atmos SDK creating the best uh evm framework out there and then evm extensions as a first mechanism for developers to Define their uh additions to the evm which was impossible before hmm

yeah I think it's like I don't know I'm it's not super clear to me what the the what the long-term um prospects are for for any of this stuff because I mean we're still super early I mean you know in terms of users you know I think there are as many people using crypto now as they were people on the internet in like 98 right so right you know it Bears it Bears reminding just how early things are and um and I think like Technologies also will probably some technologies will you know evolve others will maybe die out and right like I think the evm has a lot of network effect and a lot of it

does um yeah so in some way where there are definitely more um new and uh new stocks or new Frameworks that have better performance and better semantics in general um but but that doesn't mean they'll get adopted you know like there's also examples there's also examples in history of things that you know were better and were uh you know I think very much expected to outperform some of the other stuff but the other stuff you know the older less performance stuff stuck around you know until something else came around I mean yeah like just look

at how long Java stuck around in the organ in big organizations and yeah it's still there's still a lot of java and bigger organizations and Java exactly and any PHP and other languages that we yeah good thing then they're very very sick anyone who's using them like the positions for those developers are highly demanded yeah well I mean in the case of PHP I I think what it what that shows is I mean I don't know to what extent I mean from my from from my viewpoint it seems like PHP is basically maintained now to Legacy Legacy infrastructure yeah well I mean to maintain WordPress because like we're like tons of websites

are still built with WordPress so people still build WordPress sites all the time it's probably like the biggest user of PHP and I think to some extent that's also perhaps what we will see in blockchain where you know some languages execution environments and even chains will continue to exist to maintain um a specialized use case I think I think that's it's likely to happen also with uh you know I've talked about this with other people as well is uh some application specific change or sorry some some smart general purpose smart contract chains that exist today probably at some point will specialize to you know their their their biggest use case or like their biggest application but it tells you a lot on a

lot of um chains nowadays are choosing the AVM as their preferred um option for building uh smart contract compatible blockchain um because of these um like developer ecosystem developer tooling developer kind of like Network effects as you were saying um and uh ethernet the library that we own and maintain has been one of the most successful evm Frameworks at the moment on on the next phase for that is building the atmos SDK where you have like a evm that is more performant is full

interoperable it has more customizability um you can leverage extension custom pre-compiles and like everything that you want for your custom evm on on in in a way itself improve the AVM with these additions that are customizable but also the lower level stock of the evm can also be improved in the sense of uh if you think of it as a product yeah well that that brings me to another point I wanted to discuss uh which is the uh the the use of of etherment uh by other projects and specifically there's

been like a lot of noise in the last couple of days and maybe weeks around Kanto having used etherm and I haven't paid a whole lot of attention to like all this all this drama uh yeah Kanto was a project that I was looking at last summer I thought it was interesting it was like talking to the team and you know I thought like okay this this is a cool a a cool chain that tries to solve something slightly different um what what are your thoughts and about you know the use of etherment uh by other projects you know leveraging open source technology that was built and funded by someone else to then go and build a competing product uh it seems like it's a topic that a lot of people

are discussing now yeah it's a very I guess it's a trending topic and also in the sense uh public goods being maintained by teams um is also something that impacts not only our our team but also uh teams like cornfield yeah um who after some time and there might be running out of cash um and coffee for the ones that don't know um are they is the team behind uh Cosmo Azam and that is widely used in the cosmos ecosystem and so it falls under like a tragedy of the commons where like um you have teams that are maintaining these critical infrastructure but and a

lot of teams are using it but no one no one wants to like chip in or like contribute any sort of resources and by resources I don't only mean like Financial Resources but also like Engineers or uh like co-marketing or Partnerships or however you want to like go about it um but and then that brings a question of like okay like whose responsibility is to maintain this um and for our case like we we build this public good um which is the uh etherman Library as like the main framework for building evm chains on the cosmos ecosystem that we in some way resuscitated after no one

taking proper care of it and so we took it to production level we it were Mass dramatically improved the performance um its usability Etc and so it became very clear that it was super easy to build new evm compatible chains now um to your question of like this competition on like drama behind like Kanto being like an Atmos fork and um like how's Emma's community community reacting to come to success and I I think it's like in some degree a validation that our technology um

isn't the right in in the right path and uh um there's clear demand for this Technologies I personally believe that etherman has been our most successful product so far um it hasn't been Atmos but it has been etherman which is widely used if you think about like all the uh chains that are using uh etherman right now it's like uh Chronos Kanto and like many other ones that are building uh evm specific chains and so the the right way to think about it is like okay how do you align these uh objects that are searching these

critical infrastructure that is maintained by Atmos and how does Atmos um the MS Community benefit uh from these other teams using these uh critical infrastructure that we've developed on maintain as well it's not only the these things don't necessarily contribute the proper amount of resources but it's also the fact that you're saving them a ton of time ton of engineering time of things that they don't even need to take care of and so they spend the opportunity cost of spending that amount about of man hours and building out these critical infrastructure they can use it on like Bill Community or build

like Partnerships or or do other uh business related activities and so yeah I mean the main question from our community has been like okay how do we like how do you make this uh Nana not a serious sum game but a positive sum game where like we as a community as Atmos Community we're also in some way benefited from the success of Kanto and from the success of other chains um it's uh like I have an uh fun anecdote when the uh FIFA World Cup was um being displaced last year uh my mom

kind of reached out to me it's like oh that is that uh Chronos like the EV like the chain that is that's right yeah software that is like on the banner of the work of Finance like yeah they're using our software but like the thing is like okay like how do we how do we go about it and it was like yeah like so this reflects this it's kind of like a way for us to kind of like the atmos SDK is a way for us to kind of like work on this alignment between all the different chains that are using our critical infrastructure that we develop and for the atmos Community to directly benefit

from um the success of other chains that is that are using this infrastructure so let's talk about licensing then because I think this is a a topic that also has come up recently um what do you see as the right licensing model such that anybody can use the software that you're building because that is the you know the ethos of Open Source and that's the way it should be and anybody can remix that software build something else with it improve upon it Etc while still generating revenue for that software that you're building and you know I

think confusio is probably asking themselves that same question right now exactly so there's a subtle Asado but very significant difference um between uh uh open source and also free to use um they're they're different in a way so like the purpose of Open Source is not not only um for using the code for free and allow forks and allow copies of the same software but also for our durability purposes so that yeah people that know that there's like a blockchain know that the code is actually not removing any transactions or minting

tokens for one specific address whatever so there is like that important point and the other one is like free to use software and and I think that the licensing model um like when we Implement an etherman we took the same license as core ethereum which uh if you use ethernet you need to state that you're using there's like attribution and then there is like any code changes need to be uh upstream or need to be informed to the maintainer and and I guess like our error there was like assuming that all the chains that we're gonna use ethernet were in some way going to contribute in one way of an or

another to the to the further development of etherman but it wasn't the case um as we saw on on from experience except some minor uh cases like for example the guys from crypto.org that are working on Chronos um and it's been a pleasure working with them for example and the MS SDK in some way kind of like the way we're thinking about this is having the code be free to use but if you're thinking of like adding this customizability or adding these um additional components on top you you will need to aligning in some way or another with the

atmos community and by aligning it doesn't mean like for example paying us the core team but aligning in some way with um vmos holders for example like no one has none of the teams that have um used the software have uh for example made an airdrop to token holders um as far as I remember at least um or or come up with a different proposal at least for aligning these two communities um that may have like similar components but like with some or like one or two differentiating factors

um so I think like that alignment of communities to prevent this year in some game is really important I really believe that the code should be open source for these other ability purposes that I just mentioned and and yeah I think the way to move forward and the way to prevent uh events like we're seeing right now with conffield where they're running out of money because if no one wants to pay for this critical infrastructure I mean um that's insane as a ecosystem overall yeah the fact that khanfio uh you know has to take these measures and sort of you know make a lot of noise around the fact that

there are no longer funding any public goods and no longer funding you know their own software at the the level of integration within Cosmos and also the value that has been creating created for the cosmos ecosystem by cosmoasm I I feel like is is insane it's insane that they they weren't able they have not been able to get funding from like at least the idea there's a question of like who should be should we who should be funding these initiatives and I think um a lot of this initiative come from like either the cosmos Hub community Through like a grant or a community pool like what's the initial case of Cosmo

awesome and and also like etherman in our case and uh the way for this community like the way that we try to align with the cosmos Hub was like through the airdraw onto like um collaborating directly like uh theater directly for core contributors on for the atmos um stakers on the pitas we as we outlining our airdrop um yeah rules and um but going forward the question is like who should be paying for this and I think like there needs to be some ways to align these communities together

so that we prevent this case yeah I guess the the question that's on everyone's mind or at least on this viewer's mind is uh how will the atmos SDK benefit Atmos holders and you know I think my question there would be like how would this licensing and this fee model that you guys are thinking about um benefit at most holders is the idea here to have some value flow back to uh MMOs holders in addition to funding the software yeah so the to be to be further they're like internally as a team we're still

thinking different ways of aligning um but you know the the whole core the core principle of this is like the community should should benefit directly from the success of other evm chains and and and to the that question is like when will the most SDK benefit at most soldiers the answer is yes how is like still up in the air but for example the airdrops could be one potential idea um like enforcing this license through airdrop um like if you launch a new production chain using our software you need to like adopt some tokens but that's an

idea that show up in the air and still needs to be discussed and Etc and other ideas um are contributing resources there are teams that are already contributing to the development of etherment and in general the evm ETC are participating in discussions uh fixing bugs or reviewing PRS whatever um and so I don't think the level of alignment I mean because they are already contributing I don't think then they should be paying the price for the ones that are currently not aligning so in that sense there could be some like

Turing system like or uh for these like Atmos SDK um as I said like the how is still up in the air but the if like will Atmos benefit everyone will the sca benefit Atmos holder the answer is yes well it's good to hear uh because uh you know as an fmos holder I think we've all kind of felt the pain of uh the the price having uh been so affected in the last couple of months and uh definitely love to see the um yeah we'd love to see the the entire ecosystem sort of come back up

again and you know this is definitely part of that I think that uh you know I mean like token prices aside we're being able to sorry no yeah sorry um we're a community of Builders and we'll keep building like these core infrastructure that is powering Atmos and other evm chains on Cosmos and so yeah we're open to suggestions from the community we're constantly listening to listening to the community in our community calls and I believe that we have one today and uh our governance cause and and we're very active on Twitter and Discord and telegram um so you can reach out to us

or to the moderators if you have any particular feedback or suggestions of how we should go about these call like Atmos SDK um so happy to hear any any feedback on that regard as well yeah well I was gonna follow up here on the roadmap but you know since you brought up governance uh I'll first ask you about this so what you know the MS governance and I think more generally at most Community uh discussions around governance has been really interesting to watch and like it's very vibrant and you know there there's uh there's a really broad community of people that are

participating in these discussions I sometimes sit in on some of these governance calls or the you know the Twitter spaces that you're doing and there's like there's a lot of really interesting discussions there's also been some like messy stuff lately don't want to get into like the details there people can go look that up but what have you learned you know from you know since atmosa was launched and having to reason about you know Community governance and having to yeah satisfy the expectations of lots of different people what have you learned through this process yeah um so evmos is one of the most active communities on Commonwealth which is this platform for blockchains that are have like some form of governance either

through a token or like on on our case you can create different type of proposals yeah and um it's been very bright Byron in a way in the sense that there's a lot of holders not only validators that are actively voting and expressing their opinion and participating in the discussion on the on this course and so like that has been um a huge validation for our not only our community team but also to like the entire Community um um so like math props to them for fostering such uh such a like interest in in our governance

overall um that being said there's like certainly a lot of processes that had to be implemented as some sort of like guidelines to prevent different types of behavior um that may be a little bit conflictive at times but overall like the community is very receptive it's very like we have chats with balloters where they express their opinion and and we can debate ideas and so in that regard it's like very positive um the

yeah a lot of people are very opinionated I must say but it's I guess it's part of governance it happens in real life with politics and so on I I wouldn't expect it to be different and and in a decentralized way uh on blockchains yeah it is extremely opinionated sometimes and uh and sometimes a bit hard to follow but yeah it's certainly exciting um yeah I want to talk about the road map a little bit because there's a lot of really cool stuff here I mean there's a lot on this road map so I'll show up here on the screen but uh you know one of the things that you're most I guess well I'll tell you what I'm most excited about here so I

think the liquid staking of course is super interesting interesting accounts you know that you know just generally in Cosmos I think is something that um design territory there um sorry it's such an unexplored territory interchange accounts with smart contracts a kind of obstruction as well together with internet accounts it's such an export territory on I think we're maybe let's describe it in your Channel or sorry a counter extractant because I think most people uh in the audience maybe are not familiar with it's a term that like only became familiar with uh recently uh it's something that ethereum chains are are

implementing hypnosis change is implementing it actually when we felica it was on the on the podcast recently uh she talked about it but essentially it is making every account a smart contract right so that you can have you know permissions recovery all sorts of things can you can you dive a bit deeper here into what that enables yeah so um Atmos itself already implements this concept of like accounts like a general purpose account like we call it like an ethereum based like an ethereum account where you can it can either be a smart contract or it can either like be an externally owned accountant eoa um

um so a kind of instruction means like paired with interchan accounts means uh you will be able as a user or as a smart contract be able to manage your accounts in The Interchange um and by accounts taking this concept of account obstruction means that you will be able to manage uh externally owned accounts like individual user accounts or other smart contracts yeah which uh will allow you to have this concept of like going back to the original like um

discussion that we had about um multi-chain like where you have like multiple instances of the same uh smart contract over that versus like uh cross chain where you have like a single instance that now is available in the entire ecosystem behind IVC and interoperability this will allow these smart contracts to have their accounts controlling certain behavior on the smart contracts via interchange accounts and so this will open like new possibilities for these smart contracts again enabling like true composability Etc and and true interchange composability yeah it's it's a really neat concept

like I think if the the best way to uh the best way to sort of see how this is implemented is through something like Argent which is an ethereum wallet that does social recovery and that implements the account as a smart contract account abstraction generalizes this concept at the chain level and makes it what's really cool about this is that it essentially turns the account into an asset so you could have an account that account could be owned Say by like one one key or a set of keys in a multi-sig fashion

and that entire account could then be transferred over to another set of keys controlled by another set of keys entirely without having to move the Assets in it so the use cases for that are just like incredible so for instance I mean the base most basic use cases if you have a company or any sort of organization that holds crypto and you and you you know you have to set up a wallet you have to set up keys and whatever you want to sell that company no sorry yeah that like transferring obligations transferring not only right like you would have to you'd have to set you'd have to you'd have to kind of unwind all of that move it to another account because the people the the new organization the new

management would have access to those keys with this you can just kind of Disconnect those permissions and then reconnect new permissions for someone else I think the applications for this are just massive you can also sell entire portfolios uh say you have like a portfolio of nfts and those things are staked like there's all this kind of stuff that's winded in there you can just sell that entire account to exactly so like by by leveraging a kind of extraction together with interesting accounts I think Atmos will be uniquely positioned not only as an evm chain but as a like a a chain in general in this like interchange ecosystem um that will enable like new use cases for these Developers

so talk a little bit about the evm extensions what what are those That's A New Concept I think yeah so I I talked a little bit about this in in uh cost members last year in Colombia it was in Spanish so I um so I didn't like dive into like the specific concept of uh stateful pre-compiles but the evm extensions basically will allow together with the atmos SDK will allow developers to um create new use cases to connect directly with Cosmos module or cosmon specific logic and

um for example our first evm extension that will launch is the staking pre-compile on the ics20 like interchange transfers so this will allow some more contracts um to be able to stake and so we'll enable new a new generation of liquid sticking derivatives like for example lidoc would come and deploy their liquid seeking derivative directly on Atmos by leveraging these evm staking extension um at the same time the main problem that we see right now with uh evm Bridges is uh they're not able to reach other

um chains in the cosmos ecosystem because the evm bridges or evm bridges are not IVC enabled and so for example uh a bridge like seller could use these ics20 evm extension to directly route the tokens to osmosis or to uh Cosmos have Etc and automatically convert them to the IBC format so this will enable like smart contracts to become IVC daps in some way as well so not only access to Cosmos components but also allow them to build IBC dubs which was something that

wasn't possible before due to the constraints that you had to build your own IVC application module on your own chain but now applications can also uh participate in this uh development of IBC enabled applications very cool uh yeah I mean there's like so much potential here I think uh to you know I think I think building in a lot of core functionality on the chain we're enabling IVC to a generation of developers that no solidity but haven't been exposed to iuc yet so imagine the potential that you have

having all the people done build the most successful defy apps on ethereum and uh nft dabs Etc to build their own IVC enabled apps on Atmos using evm extensions and in the future it will also be available uh on the atmos SDK again for these uh projects that are aligned directly with Atmos holders uh super cool and then what's this simple agreement for funding upload yeah um so safu is a model like a security model for like a security agreement for

um wide hot hackers so when we talk about security vulnerabilities there are like two classification um so one is like an active vulnerability which is what happened with Noma when you had like these everyone rushing to get some tokens and you have like multiple hackers some of them are white hot some of them are malicious hackers and so there's like a lot of legal uncertainty lack of Clary from the team and so having these like except for agreement um that you could you can also access today in our on our security section on our repository and our documentation um you can

basically connect directly with these um with these applications okay uh what what else are what else in the roadmap are you particularly excited about your your video is cut by the way um oh can you still hear me yeah I can hear you but um well you know this is a new setup so yeah of course there's there's going to be some issues with it so uh good thing I've got a backup webcam but yeah what else are you uh what else are you particularly interested in um

or like very excited about so I think like something that has been overlooked in the cons because I I talked to I've given already to interviews about this um about the roadmap on in general our Manifesto is uh the atmos dub store which is like gonna be a new mechanism for uh for users to interact with the applications on fmos and they'll be able to will have created content we'll have like a mechanism for them for the leaderboards of these different decentralized applications um you'll be able to see like okay if

you connect your wallet and you've used like certain smart contracts on fmos we can also recommend you and of course if you opt into these suggestions you'll be able to um like we will be able to provide you some recommendations on other applications that you should be trying or like suggested apps you'll be able to pin on on review applications see like the descriptions available developers will be able to publish their applications and so it's a lot it's a lot to digest but I think it will be powerful for the overall user experience of of Atmos excellent well um I think we'll we'll

wrap it up there thanks so much for coming on again you're officially the uh the guest that has been on the interrupt the most I think this is your third time uh but uh yeah looking forward to seeing this road map uh play out and excited to see the future of asmos as a I'm going to call it a cross chain Hub between enter between the inner chain and the evm that's that's my that's the way I'm going to describe it from now on yeah I'm definitely really excited for what suklaman uh uh thank you everyone from the community for listening in and always supporting us um

yeah we we are a chain that has less than a year where we build like most of the critical infrastructure for this to work and now 2023 is going to be the year that will be will be launching like our real functionalities um we'll be launching these like Vision uh and enabling this vision of like true interoperable smart contracts awesome well thanks again and to our listeners thanks for tuning in uh well you may have noticed that this episode is on a Tuesday where typically I do episodes on Thursday that's because there's so much stuff going on in the

space that I think I'm constraint or like sort of obliged now to do two episodes a week so I'm not holding myself to this schedule when there's going to be some extra things that I really want to get out there as quickly as possible I might do an extra episode on Tuesday uh regular episodes will be on on Thursdays but you know this this was seemed so important that like yeah I couldn't wait until you know whenever in March when I have uh when I have fun yeah and thank you uh yeah thanks for tuning in and if you do if you if you enjoy this content please consider staking with interop uh we're live on on Atmos and also on Quicksilver see you next week or see you on Thursday see you next time