Ethereum turns 7, Layer 2 chat and much more - The Daily Gwei Refuel #418 - Ethereum Updates

Transcript

hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the daily way refuel work up the latest news in the ethereum ecosystem i'm your host the anthony sosano and today's the first of august 2022 all right everyone let's get into it so it was ethereum's seventh birthday over the weekend so ethereum was i guess born or the ethereum mainnet went live july 30th 2015 so it was obviously july 30th over the weekend and it turned seven you know it's kind of funny when you think about the fact that ethereum is only seven and it's as big as it is right if you like a lot of people like to compare ethereum and crypto and blockchains more generally to i guess the evolution of the internet well the first iterations of the internet came out in like the 40s or 50s i mean it depends how far you want to go back if

we go back to uppernet i believe like if i quickly google that because i don't want to get this wrong i think arpanet was established here in 1969 right and then we didn't really get i guess consumers really using the internet until the 90s so it was quite a while like it was uh probably a good 20 something years until consumers were really you know using the internet and getting value out of it but then probably even more than that 30 well 1969 70 to 2000 it's 30 years and then 35 40 years until kind of it really went exponential you could say um you know after the kind of like dot com crash and everything like that but that i think you know was due to the fact that the internet needed a major infrastructure rollout to actually happen and you know the hardware needed

to kind of like get better and better over time for the experiences to become seamless for people and all that sort of stuff there right like you need to build internet towers and everything like that and lay the cable of course as well whereas with crypto i mean it's been around since bitcoin came out in 2000 i guess like eight slash nine right so you could say around uh 14 years at this point right uh so it's it i mean if you take bitcoin it's been like a little while but it hasn't actually been that long and there are plenty of people who are using it i mean there are more people using kind of like crypto today and using i would probably so that's the thing when you think about like people using crypto it's kind of more about okay are they buying just coins on

exchanges or are they actually on chain i think on chain is very very low to compare to people that's buying coins on exchanges but there is obviously like a kind of double-edged sword there right you count people buying on exchanges well then you kind of say oh well crypto has massive adoption um but then that doesn't really because you look at on chain and there's hardly kind of like anyone i mean you could say there's probably like five maybe ten percent of people that buy on exchanges actually do stuff on chain so there's all that to consider but you know if you just kind of like consider the fact that the industry is still so incredibly young yet it's achieved so much already and it has such a large market cap like even after the massive um downturn that we've seen the whole industry is still worth a

trillion dollars right like over a trillion dollars ethereum is still a 200 plus billion dollar network alone in just seven years which is crazy to me i i absolutely think it's crazy i think it's what's even crazier is that ethereum is like a totally new thing right it's not like some some kind of like uh app that people can just download on their phone and away they go with it or anything like that it's a totally new thing that requires like different kind of levels of thinking it's definitely nowhere near finished i mean vitalik said in his ecc talk that he considers ethereum to be about 40 i think finished which obviously that means we're not even halfway over finished yet uh yet uh we have so much kind of like adoption such a large community and so many people kind of involved with that which i think is

really really cool but still like a lot of obviously growth potential to go so yeah but i mean seven years what's the theorem going to be like in seven years from now i don't i don't know like i think i feel like ethereum seven years from now if we hit all the roadmap items that we want to we'd pretty much be at the kind of like splurge which is the last part of the the road map which is the nice to haves essentially we'll pretty much be there i think we would have done all the other phases or all the other things would have been implemented already in seven years time now hopefully i'm not jinxing it hopefully it doesn't take longer than that but yeah just thinking about the kind of like craziness that has gone and where ethereum has come from where it is

today and where it's going is is really exciting so i do think that you know if you take like that 40 kind of finished kind of uh i guess uh uh statistic there then you kind of like apply it out we do another 40 in seven years maybe another 50 in seven years and we get to like 90 complete and that 10 percent is the last uh kind of like nice to haves of ethereum well then it's you know it's probably kind of like makes a lot of sense there so so yeah anyway i obviously have a lot to kind of like thank ethereum for thank the community for uh i kind of like i always do that whenever it's ethereum's birthday i just kind of like do a bit of reflection and be like well you know them really did change my life and i hope it changed

your lives and i hope it is changing your life it's just so amazing that there's it's a technology at the end of the day right it's not a living thing but it feels like it's a living thing sometimes because of the people that make up that technology and it feels like we're part of like a living breathing kind of organism that is ethereum even though it's uh it's kind of like a physical network grounded in kind of like machines it still has a lot of human elements to it as i've discussed obviously at length before in the refill so yeah i just wanted to kind of like talk a little bit about the ethereum's birthday there uh well i guess like one year till it's next birthday from here right all right so speaking of ethereum upgrades the uh girl emerge is fast approaching i mean today is the first of

august so between the 6th and 12th is when we're expecting the girl emerge but you can now track the progress of it by hitting heading to the bordell.wtf website now those of you that have been tracking the other test net mergers will be familiar with this website nothing new here you've got the ttd in the top left you did have the hash rate below this but gurley isn't a proof of work network it's a poa network it's a proof of authority um so it works differently there's no kind of like hash but it it kind of like um it can produce blocks uh or kind of it has a it has a concept of difficulty based on i think the validators that are part of the poa network and if something if some of them kind of like fall off well then uh you know the the difficulty changes or

something like that i'm not totally across the details there but there is a similar element so that's why you only see the ttd here and not any kind of like um any hash rate below it but according to this site right now we should be expecting the merge to happen around august 11th at uh 11 p.m i think that would be in utc time 11 pm utc i think or closer to 12 a.m utc there so yeah it's probably gonna happen like i don't know why they said six to 12th of august maybe they'll just given like the widest band as possible but i would expect you know between 10th and 12th really i don't i don't really expect it to happen earlier than that i mean i hope it doesn't happen earlier than that because i might not be able to make the the live stream it's actually my

anniversary with my fiance on the 8th of august so let's let's make sure it happens on like the 11th on the 8th guys for my for my sake i want that pull-up for being on the call um but but yeah you can kind of like go to this website yourself to keep track of everything happening here maybe it'll happen soon or maybe it'll happen later we'll see how that evolves but we're very very close only about 10 days away i guess you could say 10-ish days uh and then it's mainnet guys like yeah so close uh that we could have an ethereum merge mainnet in six to seven weeks from now if it happens in mid to late september which i still think is a pretty good um pretty good kind of chance i haven't seen any chatter about delaying that date or anything like that i think once

we see girly go through and if it goes through well if everything goes like it did for robston and sepolia i don't think there's going to be any kind of like pushback or anything from any of the developers or researchers it's basically going to be like okay it's go time let's schedule this let's give a ttd let's target mid to late september or that week of september 19th as they kind of like said on on the call a few weeks ago and let's get this thing done so close guys i can't wait uh but yeah definitely check out this site if you want to keep a close eye on the girl emerge timing all right so i've been talking about eip 4844 a lot lately uh over the weekend i put out a few tweets about this basically saying that uh post merge i'm gonna shift my

shilling from shilling the merge to shilling a ip4844 and a refresher i mean i've talked about this a lot but the refresh for you guys is that 4844 is proto dank sharding it is an erp that you know i think if eip1559 was the biggest and most anticipated eip in ethereum's history i think 4844 should be just as big if not bigger than it because of the fact that one five nine was awesome it is awesome it did a lot of good for the network obviously we're burning eighth we're kind of like stop we stopped linking that value to to everyone we actually kind of like bring a lot of that value back in in-house and and flows to eth but on top of that we also uh uh kind of like smoothened out the fee market made uh kind of like priority inclusion a lot

better and you know a bunch of different kind of like things that are definitely paying dividends for for users whereas 4844 i think is going to have a much bigger impact for end users than 1559 did even though 1559 uh smoothing out the fee market 4844 as i've mentioned before makes roll-ups incredibly cheap like sub-cent transaction fees and it actually shifts the burden of scale from the ethereum layer one to the roll-ups themselves and then what do i mean by that basically what i mean is that you saw what happened with albertum they got congested because they have that artificial limit in place during the odyssey events and the transaction fee spiked now the both optimism and arbitration today are not at capacity but their transaction fees are still not

subsent right like if i go to l2 fees.info right now both optimism and arbitrary cost around 20 25 cents uh to send eighth and about 30 to 40 cents to swap tokens at about a 10 way gas price and that is mostly if not you know all layer one gas cost because of the fact that l2 settlement to layer one is still too expensive now with eip 4844 it introduces a new transaction type on layer one called blob carrying transaction type and this is purely part of the consensus layer and that basically gives roll-ups this can only be used by by roll-ups basically and and layer twos it basically gives them space to store all this data and that's taking up the space on layer one ethereum and

then it expires after a month uh it's still kind of like part of the chain but it the the kind of like details so to speak expire and then if you wanted those details you can download them and store them yourselves and everything like that you can verify the correctness of them because all the hashes and stuff are still on chain um but yeah that's that's basically what it is so those costs would collapse down to you know at current demand levels down to subset transaction fees uh but if demand starts spiking if the roll-ups and styles start hitting their own limits that they've got in place well then they'd you know their fees are obviously going to go up again doesn't matter how cheap it is for them to post data on layer one ethereum they're still bound by their own constraints so that's why

i've always said that that layered twos uh kind of like uh get the best and and the worst of layer one and layer two right like they've got the limitations and the pros of each thing there they get the security the centralization of ethereum layer one and kind of like get to outsource all that stuff to l1 but they also inherit the l1 l1 lack of scalability as it exists today but to an extent not not you know to the extent that l1 has its scalability issues but definitely it still exists whereas post dang shotting that kind of like goes away for a little while it'll obviously still not give us infinite scaling or anything like that but uh it will give us a lot for a while and then what ends up happening is that the burden shifts back to the roll-up so

it's kind of like a balancing act where l1 will scale then the roll-ups will have to scale to match that l1 scale and then you know that maybe maybe those robs get filled up because they have so much scale and then they hit their limits okay well then they scale further and then l1 has to scale more and we have obviously plans on both layers to scale as much as we can but that's the balancing act that we're going to be playing with over the next few years and on top of that you also have a kind of like these upgrades coming which i i think i don't know if i have a tweet about these upgrades here i think i do yeah both arbitrum nitro and optimism bedrock which are the two major upgrades coming to arbitrary optimism respectively that are going to increase

scalability of these systems now i don't know how much bedrock is going to increase the scalability of optimism i think for nitro and arbitrary it's about 10x what it is today so arbitrary will be able to handle 10x the demand it saw i guess like when it peaked during odyssey but then if it reaches that capacity well it's going to kind of like revert back to what we already saw now obviously nitro isn't the final upgrade they're going to keep putting upgrades in they're going to keep doing more and more here uh and then with those l1 upgrades coming with prototype sharing and things like that that's also going to happen but as i said it's a balancing act it's kind of like shifting to the different layers depending on where we are in in kind of like the um in the scaling ecosystem there uh and

finally before i move on from this i just wanted to highlight that proto lambs are this one of the halves of protodank sharding so for those of you don't know proto-dank sharding the term is actually made up of two people's names proto-lambda here on twitter who has been an ethereum researcher for a long time he's currently at optimism uh optimism labs working on optimism and still working on ethereum core stuff uh and uh dan craig feist who works at the ethereum foundation who came up with dank sharding while you know proto and bank cred came up with proto dank charting which is basically a i guess you could say really early version of dang shouting that still gives us a lot of benefits uh gives rollups a lot of benefits well he posted the slides here from his htc talk about 4844 so if you

want just like a clean overview of it you can go check that out but there's also the eip44 website which you should just google and you'll be able to check that out as well i suggest getting familiar with erp 44 as familiar as you can dedicate time to kind of like researching it going through the faq going through everything to make sure you understand and what benefits it brings because you're going to be hearing a lot more about it not only from me but from everyone after the merch because that is the thing to look forward to after the merge like yeah we have beaker chain withdrawals coming and things like that but no one's excited about beacon chain withdrawals i mean it's just a thing right just i think we have to do because it's part of like um the whole kind of like staking ecosystem

we have to have a way for people to kind of withdraw from staking right but no one's like up in arms about it being like oh my god i'm so excited that withdrawals are coming unless they plan to sell maybe they're excited they're finally going to be able to sell their eighth i don't know but yeah it's a different kind of excitement right whereas with the 4844 every single person is going to be affected by this because of the fact that if you're using something on a layer 2 your costs are most likely if not certainly depending if these roll ups are congested at the time which i don't think there will be but your costs of doing transactions is going to come down dramatically and and it's just super a super exciting thing coming to the network so and that is the most exciting near-term thing after the

merge like obviously there are other upgrades coming obviously there are other upgrades coming in the longer term too but in terms of like ones that to kind of like be excited about post merge or immediately post merge would be uh prototype sharing that's for sure all right speaking of uh i guess like optimism uh bedrock uh smart contracts here or calvin victor put together a great thread about the optimism bedrock upgrade itself roll up decentralization and zk and then he said something here where he goes bedrock is a roll-up client not an optimistic roll-up client so again hinting at the fact that optimism has been working on zk stuff you know arbit stephen goldfeder from arbitram did a similar thread last week hinting at the arbitration has been

working on zk stuff as well and i think nitro is kind of like in the same vein as that the same as kind of bedrock uh but i thought that was funny because so many people for so long thought oh my god these optimistic roll-ups are so obsolete you know because zk roll-ups are coming and i've i said for the longest time that when zktec is ready it's not ready today but when it is ready the the um optimistic roll-up teams are going to be there and going to adopt that technology they're not going to be like i guess what what's the term i'm looking for they're not going to be stubborn about it they're not going to be like oh my god no my technology is best we spent so long kind of building this stuff we're not going to just abandon it we're going to stick with

this no that's that's not how the ethereum ecosystem works maybe it's how the bitcoin ecosystem works so they're so stubborn about changing anything but that's never been the ethereum ecosystem that's never been the way uh kind of like ethereum does things i think that expands to layer twos as well so that's why you're not going to see these optimistic roll-up teams go down with the ship so to speak if it turns out that zk gives us all the benefits that it's promised to give us it gives us all that that kind of extra scale better cryptographic security and guarantees and everything like that well then we're just gonna they're just gonna use that and that's why they're building for those kind of like upgrades in the future by building stuff like bedrock and nitro so i thought this was a great thread kind of going through that more

you should definitely give this thread a read but there's one other tweet that i wanted to highlight here from calvin uh if i can find it in his thread which one was it uh where he says uh you know there's no reason why bedrock can't use a zk proof system instead we think optimistic roll-ups currently have massive advantages over their zk counterparts but bedrock has been designed to make a seamless transition between optimistic and zk possible that i can't even like uh say it any clearer than this guys this is very clear proof from someone who works at optimism right saying that bedrock has been designed with kind of like future proof in mind and it's there's no reason why a seamless transition between optimistic roll up which is what optimism is today and turning it into a zk rob in the future

can't happen like it's going to happen if a stuff gets that point which i think it will but we don't know when but it will get to that point which i think is just absolutely awesome like i love seeing this because the worst thing and the thing that i've always worried about when it comes to ethereum and i don't worry about as much these days but i used to worry about it a lot more maybe in 2018 2019 when the proof-of-stake kind of like i guess roadmap was in flux i used to worry a lot about ethereum getting stuck getting like ossified too early and not being able to do upgrades both that you know layer one and layer two uh and layer two actually i was worried about that and probably until maybe early 2020 until i started seeing a lot more action here we did see 29 action in

2019 with um optimism coming to the scene and kind of like doing their uni peak demo and stuff like that but you know i still kind of like was like uh you know what's going on here right it was still a little bit in flux but then it all came together and over the last couple years i haven't really felt that i felt like ethereum is in the best place it's ever been in terms of kind of like uh pushing updates out even though they they may take longer than we would like there's still stuff getting done right there's still like a lot of things being researched in parallel developed in parallel and the same is true for layer twos if not more so for layer twos because they can move faster than layer one obviously so as i said i used to be worried about it

a lot especially during 2018 2019 and i don't think it was just price influencing my my concern back then because i didn't really care about price um but i was just concerned about the fact that 2017 had a lot of hype around obviously people thought proof of stake was going to come that year there was some layer 2 scaling like ryden with state channels and stuff like that and there was plasma but then it all kind of like fizzled away and we were in no man's land for a little bit in 18 or 19 and then i think in in kind of like 19 we started coming together with a little bit of stuff and then in 2020 we really came together with d5 summer and d5 just taking off and obviously the bull market coming back and and making kind of like defy uh such a a

wild ecosystem but we also saw uh the beginnings of a really vibrant layer two ecosystem coming online that continued into 2021 and has basically reached the you know critical mass in 2022 where just there's no signs of it slowing down at all and i would know this because i've been doing the daily way kind of like refuel since late 2020 and i've been doing the newsletter since mid-2020 uh so i've been covering this every single day so i think that i'm maybe one of the the kind of like best people and most intune people in the ecosystem in terms of like being able to notice shifts in in kind of like what's happening across the ecosystem because i just paid so much attention to it uh and people other people that that can kind of like pick up on this as well such as the guys from bank list they're very

close to the middle i spoken to them about this too uh and they basically agree with me it's just like it's crazy to think that we were so optimistic about ethereum in 2018 and 2019 and ethereum development uh when in reality looking back now there wasn't really that much to be optimistic about right like it was kind of some sort of blind kind of optimism to an extent but i don't think that's been the case since early 2020. i think since then we've really really taken off as an ecosystem and there's just no signs of slowing down anyway a little bit off kind of like a tangent there a little bit off topic but i think it does fit into what you said here but i'll link us uh calvin's um uh thread in the usual description below for you to check out all right so speaking of uh layer twos

vitalik had an interesting tweet here where he quote tweeted uh calvin's tweet and said here's a hybrid idea optimistic plus zk governance only uh uh adjudicates bugs between the two man i can't say that word people are going to make fun of me for that uh and then vitelli continues by saying you know number one publish block wait 24 hours for fraud challenges if no challenge publish publish to zk snark finalize if there is a challenge decide based on two of three of the challenge game zk snark governance i've said before that the only reason optimistic roll ups have a seven day kind of fraud dispute period is arbitrary it is not a strict rule of the system i i actually think that in theory optimistic wallops could have

a one block uh fraud kind of proof system but the problem is is that the whole point is that you want to be able to detect fraud uh in kind of like a in a way that gives enough enough people enough time to detect it like you obviously probably can't detect it in one block but maybe you could do it in an hour for example maybe you could have a kind of like a challenge game run in an hour with the fraud proof system uh and and kind of like uh get that all sorted out there but vitalik's idea here is to kind of like make a hybrid of that right get your optimistic kind of like challenge game um have governance and have zk stuff but only use two of three of them in case of a challenge right so you could use a

challenge game and governance in or you can use challenge game zk snark or you could use zknight and governance and you know and so on and so forth right so i think that's a cool idea i don't know if someone's going to do this in practice i don't like from all the concern trolling around seven day withdrawal periods i don't think anyone's really cared that much because we have so many bridging protocols now and so many protocols that allow you to do fast exits and stuff like that but on top of that as as these later two ecosystems become more and more developed right and more and more uh and more and more people go on there more more liquidity kind of gets on there more of an ecosystem gets built out i think people aren't going to care about withdrawing off of off of these

things right they're not going to care about off-boarding onto layer one ethereum from layer two because like layer one theorem probably isn't gonna be a place where there is much for them to do and on top of that if they're gonna go to fiat well they can just go to a centralized exchange direct l2 to centralize exchange l2 and have their deposit credited in the same amount of time it will take a normal l1 deposit to be credited so i don't know if anyone's going to build this it is cool to think about but yeah for all the concerns trying around the the the kind of like um seven day withdrawal period i haven't personally seen anyone really complaining about it but still a cool idea there's a bit of comments and discussion in the thread here from vitalik i'll link in youtube description for you to check

out all right so scroll's got another tweet thread slash blog post out today uh kind of describing the architecture of scroll so they say in this post we take a deeper dive into scrolls overall architecture which in its initial state is composed of a centralized sequencing node and decentralized proving network so you can check out this blog post for full details on that and this thread here for basically a tl dr uh but yeah i'm loving these things from scroll like i i actually really love when teams kind of put out i guess bytes not i mean bite size these relative definition but like they kind of like put out constant uh i guess like um i guess what what am i saying here constant education around their own kind of like architectures and other things

around kind of like what they're building for people to kind of like digest as time goes on now as i said this is this is relatively bite-sized i mean this shouldn't take you too long to read it wouldn't even take you five minutes to read this maybe understanding it will take a bit longer but basically i love these sorts of things because i love like obviously i love learning but i love learning about things on the bleeding edge as well and in such a simple way and such and as a simple way as possible i think is a really great way to kind of like get people on board with your mission people to join your community get people to be more involved that's exactly what scroll has been doing with all of these educational posts that they've been putting out i guess over the last few months so i

look forward to them continuing to do this i'm super excited to keep reading them uh but i'll link this one in the youtube description for you to check out just wanted to put it on your radar in case you missed it all right finally here we have an announcement from statefulworks where they announced something called the new home of the heart which is an nft benefit sale for the ethereum called devs working on the merge this is being curated and organized by sw jpeg and sofia garcia here so i don't think this is the official merge nft i think this is just another thing that's happening another nft that's kind of like happening as i said it's called new home of the heart uh which is a benefit nft sale um but i think there's going to be a separate kind of like an official uh merge nft

kind of like what we had for erp 1559 but that hasn't been announced yet from what i've seen but yeah you can read the full details of what this is in this very very short blog post this is actually bite size blog prostr if you want to know how to get involved with that and there's also a twitter thread for an even shorter view here uh but yeah i just wanted to kind of like clarify that i don't think this is the official merge nft this is just another kind of initiative going on and the proceeds from this sale are going to call debs working directly on the merge which is always a fun and and good thing there so very very excited about that uh definitely check it out if you haven't yet all right i have got a few minutes left here today is kind of like end of episode

topic uh i have something that i kind of like was thinking about over the weekend that i wanted to talk more about um today but there is a funny kind of like phenomenon that i've noticed being in crypto like a fair few cycles now i mean my first crypto forum was 2013 with bitcoin i stuck around for a bit in 2014 but didn't really stick around in 2015 2016 but technically i've been a part of like three of these crypto market cycles now the 2013 cycle 2017 and 2020 slash 2021 cycle and the kind of thing that always strikes me about them is that it's always the same like you might think it's different you might think this time is different but it is always the same i'm not just talking about the market action the market action obviously

drives the cycle itself but in terms of kind of like we have like this massive influx of users come in right then obviously they come with money the prices go up blah blah things get heated things get crazy there's all these new narratives flying around there's all these oh my god you know this time is different everything's going to be amazing we're going to get mass adoption any day now blah blah like all that sort of stuff right and to an extent there's always like a new narrative that pops up too like in 2017 it was icos in 2013 ethereum wasn't around but there was kind of like this bitcoin narrative that spawned after uh silk road was shut down that brought up a lot of attention on the bitcoin um and then in 20 kind of 20 such 2021 well 2020 was d5 2020

and and i think bitcoin institutional adoption was a bit of a narrative probably a lot of narrative in 2020 as well then 2021 we had like uh nft stuff a lot of nft stuff going on uh we had kind of like the old towel one stuff as well going on um and i think kind of like that ended us out for the year about november we kind of like peaked there right so it's kind of funny how we always have something different that doesn't really kind of like map to what we had before like there was not really any icos in 2020 2021 right like there were token sales but it wasn't the main theme it wasn't something that was capturing everyone's attention like it did in 2017 and there was really barely any talk of kind of like anything related to drug

markets or anything related to silk road in 2017 for example right um and then we had like nfts and d5 this cycle so i wonder if in the next cycle is that still going to be a major theme i think it will i don't know if we're ever going to get a like a full repeat of d5 summer i don't think that's going to happen because device something happened in like probably half of the reason why it happened the way it did was because it was so new for a lot of people and it was just kind of like a once-off kind of thing where it captured a lot of people's attention but all the ogs are pretty much like i guess bored of that sort of stuff in the sense that they've already experienced that a lot of times it's kind of like oh yeah whatever it's

it's kind of like liquidity incentives yield farming we've done all that before who cares right and if tease is a broad topic i think nft is going to be persistent but i'm thinking like is it are these things going to be the main focus of the next cycle like is there going to be something else driving this i'm curious to hear your thoughts on it as well guys but i think that there will be but i i kind of like think that the d5 and nft ecosystems are so strong and there's so much of a kind of like addressable market there and they they're kind of like they can be sustainable that i think they're going to be part of us for many many cycles to come i think they're going to bring what bring us to kind of like mainstream adoption but is it going to

be the main thing of the next cycle i don't think so i think we'll have something new maybe i can't pick what it is um but it might be layer twos like maybe everyone gets like super excited about layer twos instead of layer ones this time and that becomes a thing or maybe there's something else that i haven't even thought of maybe some for some reason someone figures out a way to do dowels in some way that gets people excited about it uh i don't know right but from my experience there's always been it's always a funny kind of phenomenon has how there's always been like this major theme and there hasn't really been overlap in those themes there's been similarities sort of but it's kind of like being a totally new thing where everyone's always been like this time is different and that's what

kind of like leads us to these super speculative bubbles that have those blow off tops because it's just a kind of like euphoria phase it's a new paradigm phase so i'm curious what happens next cycle and what what kind of like leads us their next cycle um but yeah i'm curious to hear your thoughts as well so definitely comment on youtube if you've got any thoughts but also in the discord channel as well but i think that's going to be it for today so thank everyone for listening and watching be sure to subscribe to the channel if you haven't yet give it a thumbs up subscribe to the newsletter join the discord channel and i'll catch you all tomorrow thanks everyone