Ethereum treasury strategy, Trump Media's Bitcoin purchase and corporate buying

Transcript

GM. Good morning. Welcome to the Milk Road Show, the daily crypto show that's navigating uncharted waters with a map that just says good luck. I'm your host, Jay Hamilton. It's Saturday, May 31st. Today's conversation was recorded on Tuesday, May 27th. Why? Because every Tuesday the Milk Road Pro research meeting happens and we record it and publish it for you guys so you can see what our team and our researchers and our analysts are thinking about behind the scenes as we build our investment thesis and as we watch markets move on a regular basis. This is our attempt to get you the signal within the noise.

Today we're going to talk about Trump media buying $2.5 billion worth of Bitcoin. And they're not the only ones. Everyone wants a piece of Bitcoin. We're going to talk about that. The Bitcoin's arm race is really just beginning. We're going to talk about ETH. ETH has its micro strategy. There is a company, a public company called Shark, Sharp Link Gaming that earlier this week announced that they are going to take $425 million and invest it in ETH within their company as part of their strategic reserve. It's being led by, you guessed it, Joseph Luben from Consensus and one of the original OG founders of Ethereum.

He's joining the board and the ticker is ETH. This is very very interesting to see that Ethereum now has a similar company setup as what Micro Strategy has with Bitcoin. We're seeing that same playbook play out with ETH. We also have next week we have somebody coming on the show who's doing the same playbook with Salana. What does this mean for ETH and what does this mean for crypto in general? Really, it opens up a lot of new rails. We're going to jump into that. We also talk about a little bit in the trenches at the end of today's show. We talk about Kaido and what's going on with Infoofi and we talk about virtuals and what's going on there. So, buckle up everybody. It's going to be a great show. Before we jump in, I got to tell you today the pro team just dropped a

report all about how to value a project's token. One of the hardest things to do in this space is you look at the token price and you think, "Hey, how does that compare to their fundamentals? How do I value this?" Well, the pro team has come up with a valuation formula that will really help you understand when you're making your investment decisions and you're looking at the price of a token. Is that a fair value? Is that undervalued or is that overvalued? Today's pro report will help you understand that. So, check it out. Today's episode is brought to you by Letin Get Cash without selling your Bitcoin. It's also brought to you by Meanwhile, Ditch Dollars Insuring Bitcoin. Fellas, what is up? Another week of the team getting together. We got the pro team. We got the Milk Road DGEN team. We got myself from the Milk

Road Show team. Uh we got five. First time we've ever had five. Exciting to see the team growing. Uh we got LG in the house. For everybody listening in who hasn't met LG yet. He is our new host of Milkro Den in the trenches every day putting out daily content. Uh, so you guys are excited to no doubt meet him today and you're gonna want to go check out his Twitter and the stuff he's putting out if you want to you want to get a little get get into the crypto casino and gamble a little bit, have a little fun. LG, what's up, man? Welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having me. And full disclaimer, if you come to the Milkro DJ channel, there is no going back after that. And I apologize in advance for the uh the nature of some of the content. Let's put

it that way. But it is fun. It is fun. It's a lot there's a lot of crazy stuff down there, especially right now in such like a bullish time. So, uh yeah, very happy to be here and great to be on a call with you guys. For the listeners that might be confused, there will be a podcast, YouTube channel, and newsletter coming soon. So, just be patient. Be patient. For now, you can find him on Twitter and you can see what he's up to. Something about something I think you were investing in last week. Don't Yeah, I know you want some ASDA so bad, man. Come on. That's the next That's the next big meme runner. That's That's the whole point of Milk Road DJ, man. is like listen a lot of people Milro DJ and they're like okay should I be buying Pepe and it's like listen Pepe is

already at what like $7 billion like we want to catch these things way lower than that right we want the next Pepe and who knows maybe it's ADAC or maybe it's one of the other many tokens we cover every day and every week on the show I love it well glad to have you here okay let's start with uh let's start with Trump Trump media Trump media making big announcements what's uh what are what are they buying and and how much are they buying? How much are they going to pump our bags? Yeah, we're going to chat about a few things. Trump Media plus another a new ETH strategy. So, like micro strategy, but for ETH, we're going to talk about infoi. Uh maybe talk about virtuals, some weird [ __ ] going on there, and then also potentially a if we get to it all. Uh,

okay. So, we've got a new micro strategy uh kicking around here, and it's Trump. It's Trump Media. They're buying, they announced this morning as we record, we're recording on what is it? Tuesday, May 27th. They're buying $2.5 billion worth of Bitcoin for their treasury and they're doing it the strategy way. So they're they're selling convertible notes uh to do this transaction. So now we've got Trump Media doing this in the billions. We've got GameStop. We've obviously got Strategy who's like getting close to trillions or whatever. I don't know how much they own now. Uh who else do we have? We have MetaPlanet in Japan. Uh we have that like Tether, was it Tether and Soft Bank? Yeah, they're in and Ubisoft doing backing

Jack Mer's 21 point. Right. Right. And then they got a bunch of like smaller companies that are doing this as well. So there's a there's a bunch that are doing this. So like there's an obvious like just continuous bid for Bitcoin. And I don't see this stopping. I'm seeing like why are why aren't more companies going to do this? I'm sure they are. So there is just an obvious bid which makes me believe Bitcoin dominance continues to be completely honest. Um because you've got so many companies buying hundreds of millions to billions of Bitcoin basically every week at this point. It's pretty wild. Um I want to talk a little bit about like risks if there are any. Uh so I don't know if you guys have any opinions on that. Me too. I also want to talk about the systemic risks that is beginning

here. So I I could talk about but anyone else want to chat about this? Just like is this uh what do you guys think about this? Is there anything else going on? I don't know. Anyone else have anything to share? Did they already buy? What exactly was happening? the two billion 2.5 billion. I think that they haven't so it's supposed to close on May 29th. So it'll be two days from today. So on Thursday it'll close and then that's when I think they raise the money and they can go buy it. The company will use Crypto.com and Anchorage Digital for custody of its Bitcoin treasury and the offering expected to close on or about May 29th. So they haven't bought yet.

They are making an announcement and pumping the price before they will buy. I don't understand why companies keep doing this or like the US is doing this. It's insane. But yeah, so it's coming. So you imagine Sailor buys tomorrow to frontr run it, right? Like why would he not do that? But what's crazy is so you have these companies doing it and it seems there's more and more every month. You also have um was it Texas, one of the states? There's a few states now that have approved the ability to buy Bitcoin. I think there's two or three states at this point in the US. So like you've got corporations doing it and they're consistently doing it. I don't know that states will be spending, you know, 2.5 billion or whatever, but like you've got some bid from over there. You have I mean ETFs, the Bitcoin ETFs have

been just crushing it over the last I think we had like 900 uh million uh inflows two days ago. I haven't looked recently. Um but I can real quick. So like you just got a bid from so many different areas. Yeah, we were 200 200 million yesterday. So, it's just a non-stop bid from everywhere on Bitcoin, which is um which is pretty wild to see. Uh anyone else are there other companies we're missing that are doing this? Like I know a bunch of small ones, so it's not that big of a deal, but well, I think that there's what's important here is to the the let's look. So, let's call this the Bitcoin treasury strategy, right? So, this is like corporations buying Bitcoin. And there's two categories within that category, right?

There is there is companies who have companies like us who we we buy Bitcoin and invest in Bitcoin, but we have a we have other means of revenue. We have other we have another business model and then we're a private company. We're not we're not selling shares or convertible notes to buy this stuff. That's what I'm saying regardless. That's what I'm saying. Like there's companies they also own 10,000. Tesla is the same that's the same as us, right? They're not buying Bitcoin to to as a way to increase as their business model. It's not their business model, right? They have a business model. They have a they have a they have revenue and real profit, right? So that's and that's great and that is growing quite quickly as well and that's a lot of small buyers, right?

But then we have the micro strategy playbook. And what we are seeing right now is an explosion of that playbook and everyone's saying we're going to see, you know, 5 10 20 more of these over the next year. And that's the that's the other that's that's more what's worth paying attention to right now because it's big buying. Uh but that's where there's also a ton of risk. a ton of risk because so I'm just looking Trump Media generated $800,000 in March 2025.

That's their that's their business. That's the size of their business. They're a five five oh five billion dollar holy five billion dollar business. Um that's bigger than I thought they'd be actually. But uh not the biggest revenues in the world that's for sure. Mostly the name. It's mostly the name. Yeah. I don't I don't even know what Trump Media does to be honest. They used to What's that show that Trump was on? But anyway, so they have some revenues and I guess they're going to start using that to to do the strategy, but I think they have more revenues then. I think that I think that to me the thing to really discuss here is okay. So great, we're in Bitcoin season.

Everyone's fired up about Bitcoin right now. It's Bitcoin week in Vegas. Price is probably going to drop because it's Bitcoin week and that's what happens every year. But short term, everybody's fired up about Bitcoin. It feels like we're still in Bitcoin dominance. It feels like I don't know, you guys can share your thoughts, but that's my take is that short term, we're still Bitcoin dominance dominance will maintain. And but the the problem here is with all of these large buyers doing very large leveraged buys if there is a correction a 30% or a 50% correction which we all know is very likely at some point right I don't know if it's in the next 6 months or in the next year or the next

18 months but it's coming then there could be a bubble here and that is very worrying to me. Yeah. Yeah, I mean like we just had a 30% correction and strategy was completely fine, right? I'm not worried about strategy. It's the one I don't worry about because they're they're OG. They've been around. Their cost basis is low, but they're the only one that matters. They're the only one with a reasonable size that could make a difference. Like if if Trump Media with 2.5 billion gets liquidated, who cares? It's a drop in the bucket for Bitcoin. It's a $2 trillion asset. So, no other company matters right now except for Strategy. So, I think you got the wrong mindset there. Uh it's just like I don't think that strategy like it you would need to see a massive draw down for it

to matter for strategy right now. And the way that they've kind of leveraged it, it's not like your like a leverage where like you hit a certain point and like boom, the company is or like the protocol is taking your your Bitcoin. Like that's not the case here. So like I don't know. I think um there's definitely risk. I don't think it's that big of risk to be honest right now. And I think a lot of these companies that are going to do this over the next bit here, like I think there's going to be a bunch more, like I don't know, like some of them are going to end up just going bankrupt because they're not going to get enough interest in their in their convertible notes and in their shares because they're just kind of a useless company. And like you said, Strategy is

the OG, so like they have the trust already, I guess, if you want to call it that. Um, but it this isn't like a FTX moment. There's not fraud here, right? So like there's not the like okay well I guess we don't know technically strategy doesn't show their assets on chain yet do they? I think there was some talk about that on Twitter I saw where he's not actually like there's no proof of reserves uh supposedly but I don't know that's actually a problem because from some sources I'm hearing that sailor is actually buying the Bitcoin ETF. So is he he is basically the biggest buyer of Bitcoin and the ETF and the inflows without him would be almost non-existent. So that could I think that's a rumor. He if he would be buying

the ETF, the inflows of Bitcoin would be so much larger. The guy's buying like two to three billion a week. Uh we don't get that kind of inflows, right? Like it makes no sense. Also like Coinbase is their is his custodian. So like they would Coinbase would say that like there's just no way like they're a public company. So like I don't know. I don't think um I don't think that's true. I think that's just a [ __ ] rumor. I don't even know where you got that from to be honest. Um, but the inflows would be way bigger if it was. Martin, are you worried about any of this risk or are you just pumped and feel like, yeah, this is great buying more inflows on Bitcoin? What if they convert the strategy and use the nation strategy like okay, we are [ __ ] We

need to issue more debt and like keep keep the bubble going. But I think it's not going to happen. Uh because like here you can you have like direct vehicle where investors can see like okay this is sustainable this is not like if you could short you know what's going on in USA and like pretty much everywhere you would probably short it and it's a it's a part of a game that we are all playing here because we are kind of shorting fiat and we are longing like tech and everything else right so we are kind of playing that game. Anyways, I was just checking how much uh gold central banks hold and they they hold 15% of the total supply of gold. So, because right now we are just talking

about the companies who are buying the bitcoin and actively adding it on their balance sheet. But what if like the central banks will start to do it? So like 15% of the total supply of gold, it's something around um three trillion today. And so you know it's it's probably the biggest buyer in the world and we are like the institutions it's the second biggest buyer I would say and now we only need like more nations start buying Bitcoin as well and then it's well it's already like just a question of time right we all know that it's just like who's front running who basically which central bank will start because

the ECB certainly not in Europe we are suddenly against Bitcoin I know on the balance sheet of the ECP unfortunately well El Salvador already is right one a day are they still doing one a day I think the the so for me the risk is not necessarily I'm sure some company will blow up doing this strategy but it'll be a smaller one so I don't think it's going to be like a massive deal if strategy blew up yet the hell out run this would be like FTX level maybe even worse that would be really bad I don't think they will anytime soon um but obviously that would be problematic like uh when or if or what percentage of chance that happens, I honestly don't know. I don't think they're in a place where they could like blow up today.

What investors I think need to understand is it's all about investing with the premium. There's a premium and a discount, right? Um and I think that's where people get confused. So there's like a company in Canada called I don't know Soul Strategies or something and they they're they're doing this with Salana and it's like on the TSX so the can the Toronto Stock Exchange and I looked I was like huh maybe I'd buy some of this because I would like to get some soul in like my like um taxfree savings account and its premium is like I forget what it was but something like 20x so like it's valued at like 20 times more than the salana that it holds and yet the business doesn't really make much revenue anywhere else right so like Micro Strategy for example is I don't know, it's valued at two times, maybe

three. I'm not sure what it's at today. I haven't really looked, but like to go 10x is just insane, right? They'd have to buy so much Salana to make up for that. So, the main thing you want to look at with Micro Strategy is like if it gets back down to its like neutral, right? So, like the valuation of Micro Strategy is the same as the amount of Bitcoin it holds. That's a good opportunity to buy. If it's at like a 3x premium, it means Bitcoin could go up, but Micro Strategy could actually still just go down even though Bitcoin's going up, right? Because it's worth way more than the Bitcoin it holds. So, you gotta there there's going to be a ton of companies doing this with a ton of different assets, and we'll talk about actually an ETH company that launched this morning as well. Um, the key thing

to be aware of when you do this, don't just go buy it because they're buying the asset you love. You've got to look at what the NAV is. Like, what's the premium to the amount of assets they actually hold, which is like a bit confusing. Um, but if they're all public companies, so they have to share this amount. That is the like key because like something like Soul Strategies was insane. It's like overvalued by like 20x. So it makes no sense to buy that thing. Strategy has had a consistent premium of like two three. So it's been it's it's been able to maintain that for a while, which is which is quite impressive. Should we jump over the E thing? Because I think this is actually I got I got Soul Strategy coming on the show next week by the way. So I'll talk to them about this. Yeah. Uh they're

they're new I think, right? right? Like they're pretty new at doing this thing, but there's a new one now today that came out called Sharp Link Gaming. This is actually pretty sick. So, this is a $5 million public company. Okay, so basically a dead company. But what happened here is quite interesting. So, Joseph Luben, who's the founder of Consensus, so they own MetaMask, they own what's the L2? Uh, Lana. Lena. Lana. Yeah. Yeah. And a bunch of other companies in the in the crypto space. Uh, they're not they're a private company. I thought they were going to go public and and start buying ETH. I mentioned that before. Well, instead, what they've done is they've they've raised capital with basically every big fund in crypto. Parfy Capital, Electric Capital, Pantera Capital, Galaxy

Digital, Onondo, uh Hivemine Capital, like list goes on. And they basically raised a bunch of money, invested in this dying gaming company that's a public company. Joseph Luben's going on the board and they are now selling shares, common shares to buy ETH. So, they announced this today. This starts May 29th is when this will close. And they're buying $425 million worth of ETH to start. And they're selling 69 I wonder if they did that on purpose. $69 million shares uh of this company to buy that ETH. So, we have our first strategy strategy, micro strategy, strategy, whatever the hell. Uh for Ethereum, there was one that did this before, some

small company also around 5 million. They were a biotech company and they bought some ETH. Uh but I don't know, they just kind of bought it and put on the treasury with some of the money they had left over. They're basically about to go bankrupt. So I don't think they had any traction. But check this out. This company is up 400% today. Okay? And this is only the morning as we record. and up over a thousand percent in the last three days. Okay, so these guys, this thing's actually like I think it's because Joseph Luben's going on the board and there's like a bunch of big crypto companies that are kind of backing this. So I think these guys are actually going to run with it. They're going to really do the micro strategy play here, but they're going to do it with ETH, which is great for ETH, but

scary because ETH is a lot more volatile and a lot more of a [ __ ] asset than Bitcoin is. That's for sure. And so that's, you know, it's good, but it's maybe a little bit more scary. I don't know. What are you guys What are you guys thoughts on this? Well, I I'm sort of surprised that he's not doing it with his own company consensus because there were some rumors. What if he is really kind of trying to defend his own company and like just, you know, acquiring this one to do that strategy there so his businesses are not interconnected and if something goes south with ETH, he's not affected at all. Right. Right. Yeah. The thing is consensus has a real business, right? Whereas like Micro Strategy, I mean I they have real business, but it's pretty [ __ ] and dying. Whereas a

consensus is a real business growing. They already have a ton of ETH on their balance sheet. They don't necessarily need this. So I agree it's actually maybe a smart idea to go and do it with a different company and kind of experiment. I think to me the thing if this was just this random Sharp Link gaming company that did this with nothing else, I wouldn't be so excited. But the fact that it's Joseph Luben on the board and all these other crypto funds and companies that are backing it tells me like, okay, these guys obviously are doing something bigger than just this one thing. Otherwise, why would they all do this, right? So, I actually think this is kind of exciting.

ETH is actually up like 3 or 4% today, uh 3% now, whereas Bitcoin's down. So, that's kind of cool. But yeah, we'll see if they like actually continue to grow this. The the thing they need is is their demand. There's so much demand for Bitcoin right now because institutions finally get it. You know, Trump is backing it like crazy, the president and like, you know, you're seeing states starting to want to buy it. You have the reserve with the US. So, like there is some serious demand. And so, Micro Strategy, for example, and MetaPlanet, they have no issue selling, you know, these convertible notes. I don't know if if if Ethereum will have the same amount of interest. Like, the ETF flows are nowhere even remotely close to the same.

So, there's obviously not demand on the ETF side. Will there be demand for this? I don't know. We'll have to see. The company was worth like five million two days ago. Now it's worth 25 million. So, uh, that's pretty wild. So, I don't know. We'll see what happens. It's like a memecoin, Kyle. It's like a memecoin. 100%. It's the GameStop. I mean, GameStop's also doing this, aren't they? Aren't they buying uh some Bitcoin? So, selling your Bitcoin should be a last resort when you need cash. That's why there's Leen, the trusted platform for Bitcoin backed loans. You can unlock cash in as little as 18 hours with no monthly interest payments and no prepayment penalties. They've issued over 9 billion in loans and never lost a single Satoshi of client funds, even

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Bitcoin. Visit milkroad.com/meanwan to join the weight list and get early access to the world's first Bitcoin life insurance. I mean, is this does this strategy make sense for ETH is my question. Or is this a bunch of uh OG ETH holders trying to make ETH into in its get to get it to its next level? get it to the reserve asset level, which is what there are still a lot of people who talk about ETH as a reserve asset, right? I don't know what you guys think about long-term, but it feels to me like Bitcoin has won that race and that's not the position that ETH will play.

But here we are seeing that strategy play out, right? Like I mean it's obviously it's just happened. It's early. Like we'll see. Uh I think we're going to see this with a ton of assets in crypto. like someone's gonna do this for XRP in the next coming weeks. I got a feeling. That's my that's my guess. It's my prediction. But I don't know. Like ETH is um if if Ethereum's roadmap works and it becomes the settlement layer of the internet, then like I do see there being a point for this. Does that happen? Who knows? You know, it it it's it's not hasn't been fully established like Bitcoin has.

Like Bitcoin is obviously a store of value, digital gold. It's the thing that, you know, in a world where, you know, governments are printing money and there's, you know, war and there's, you know, banks failing, etc., like, it's an escape asset that's that's outside of the system. And so, like, it's established that it's real. It's here. Ethereum hasn't necessarily won that yet, although it obviously has a huge lead. So, I I don't know. We'll see. But, um, what I do think is good about this is this gets we we talked before, Jay, about like Coinbase being a public company and other crypto companies being public because then Tradfi hears about it. micro strategy. Although, you know, whether you like what Sailor's doing or not, it's got a lot of tradition institutions learning about Bitcoin because they're like, "Holy [ __ ] what's this guy doing? I have to learn about it

now. If this kind of gets some sort of limelight in the media, it's going to force companies to start learning about ETH and Joseph Luben's going to be the spokesperson because he's the head of the board, so he's going to be the sailor of it. That to me is a really good thing. He's well spoken. He obviously gets Ethereum. He stands by the values of Ethereum. So, like he's a great spokesperson for ETH. And if this puts him on the map in the Tradfire world, then I'm all for that. So, I think good things can come from this. Obviously, bad things come from too if ETH has another 70% draw down or whatever it does every couple years. Well, it's small enough now that I don't think it would impact ETH that much, right? Yeah. Yeah. If this grew and became a big strategy, then yeah, it

could potentially. Uh, but you make a good point. It's it it is like it it is very very bullish right now to see this level of publicity in the trad world coming to ETH. It's huge. It's a marketing. But he also spends he also spends a lot of time in Washington and talking to different like institutions and like big CEOs and those kind of guys. So like okay he has a business so he is obviously biased a little but I think if there is if he doesn't see the direction and the field that people are really bullish and like interested in building on this tech he he wouldn't do it. Uh so like already all his empire is related to Ethereum and dependum success. So now

building another one wouldn't make too much sense. J I think we had Joe Luben on the podcast one time. We got to get him back on to uh to chat about what he's doing here. Uh I think so. Like a while ago, I'm pretty sure. Really? Not me. Maybe you. Maybe you did. I think I would. Uh we we'll reach out. We'll get Joe. Joe, you listening in? Come on the show, my man. Let's Let's talk about Infoofi. I don't mean to to push us along, but I know LG's got a show in uh 20 minutes. He's got to go to Yeah, he's got his own daily show. Uh so, let's talk about Infoofi. Uh Kaido, who who wants who wants to set this one up? Adrian, you want to set this up? Yeah. Yeah, I can start. So, InfoPi, the first thing that comes in

mind is certainly KO AI, which is a they call it web three platform, which was already founded in 2022. What it does it is it aggregates a lot of crypto data from sources like especially X uh Twitter, it's the main source, but also forums and does research for real-time insights. So they have these uh three products basically or there's three features. Ko pro this is the AIdriven search engine. They're doing sentiment analysis which is really popular. You might have seen for example uh for certain tokens this sentiment analysis on X from certain KS. They like to show how well is the sentiment because sentiment uh reflects in the price. They

also have a KO connect. This is basically an infoi network. They're rewarding users or the yappers in this case which are also content creators on X uh with YAPS points that are giving them air drops um basically in the in the end of an airdrop campaign of a project and they have the KO token which was launched in February and it's backed by uh serious VCs like a dragonfly for example and the whole thing is a little bit similar to Nansen and Misari but it's more interactive as well because of this whole yeah uh K influence and this attention economy that they are playing very very well here. I think Kaido is fantastic. I think they've done it. It's

it's it's it's good and bad. Some people really hate it because it's created a lot of artificial noise on X, which my argument to that existed before, but basically what these guys do is that they will at least at least for my like the the more DGEN perspective and the, you know, Twitter K perspective. uh you know they'll basically work with part uh projects pre-token launch to create a leaderboard of the top voices of that project which is something that you know whether if you're in marketing or if you're in anything else really in crypto is a useful tool to know who has the most influence discussing a certain token or certain protocol or whatever that is. So they have leaderboards boards for both

both pre and postlaunch projects. Um and then that way you can see in a way that is in an with an algorithm that seems relatively accurate like the people at the top of these token leaderboards seem to be at least from my perspective the tokens that I follow the most influential people and generally across like crypto Twitter you have you have people like Vitalic being consistently in the top five which which seems appropriate right. Um, so what I love about this protocol is that it's it's kind of formalizing attention in a way that we've always wondered about on crypto Twitter, at least in the time that I've been there. Um, you know, especially back in the days when uh, you know, I had a different podcast, it would have been good to know the projects we discussed what who who were the most influential. I would have liked

to know how influential I was on some of those projects. Um, and and now it also gives you a sense of that. And on top of that, they've added this layer of like of an actual marketing campaigns where you'll have a new a new protocol come in. Um, and some pretty big ones, right? Like like u I don't I don't know if you guys know any of these, but something like Farcaster is a good example where you can even see even just on this screen right now. If you look over to the right, this is like the top pre-token launch mind share board of the last 24 hours. You can see projects that maybe you've heard of like pump.fun fun abstract which is the the layer two from from the Pudgy Penguins team. Farcaster on base OpenC these these are protocols that don't have a token yet and you can

see how much mind share that they're occupying and then once they launch if they've partnered with with Kao um they'll have their own leaderboard of influencers uh showing you who has the most influence on that project at a given time. So basically the flywheel that they have for attention is that let's say something like an openc that doesn't currently work with Kaido but could they'll say okay we're going to give 2% of our supply when we're launching our token whenever that is to the top 2,000 Kito yapper people. So then you'll incentivize basically anybody on Twitter to go and tweet about OpenC. A yap is a tweet or like a kind of fractionalized tweet. Uh, and is it really anybody or is the system being

gamed a lot? Do you consider it fair? Depends on your your description of fair. I know a lot of people who have come out of the shadows who have like five or six hundred followers who are doing quite well with this. So, I think it's at least it's a it's a it's a bit more fair in terms of not just good deals and money going to the top influencers. It still does a lot, Adrian, because you'll have a lot of people, you know, in the top 50, some or top hundred who are like hardcore grinders. They're putting out really good guides and content. They've got a couple thousand followers. They're going to make some good bank on that. And then you've got someone like an Ansom or whoever, like a big Twitter KL who who will just be like, I like OpenC and then they'll be in the top five, right? So,

it's like it is it is weighted in a certain way, but that's also how the attention works. So I don't I think that it's no system is perfect but I think this is kind of the most advanced version I've seen of really kind of you know uh formalizing that attention and and who has it but it's not only attention it is also quality that's considered by the algorithm I read absolutely yeah so it does they have done a good job of trying to filter out a lot of the spam and uh I think how you rank in this is they they've they've tweaked the algorithm over time um but I think they've added something called smart followers where you can see which accounts have smart followers and smart followers are considered I guess like

higher quality accounts which I think is a lot harder to game yourself into being a smart follower or having smart followers because I think it's limited to like only a few thousand accounts are considered smart followers and that's based on like age of the accounts their own like network of the account of like who the other followers are of that account so you can't just have this botted 2 million follower account suddenly be at the top of the leaderboards or not as much. Adrian, can you share the the Dune with the revenue? So, KO's actually made made some money here. Uh, annualized, so for 12 months, they're at 32.9 million. Now, that's annualized. They haven't actually generated that much. So, don't get confused by the numbers. I know a lot of people kind of miss this. It means that if they continued to make the same

amount they've made over the last however many months, I'm not sure what the rolling period is behind, uh, then they would make that much. Uh, and so, um, but like I don't know, did they just do a launch so they made a bunch of money from that? Like I don't know that they'll actually keep up with that same. So, not only the the dashboard KO Pro and the API that's being used by 700 teams. It's monthly $1,000, I think, something like that. Yeah, it's a $1,000 subscription to use this thing. Uh, which is quite expensive. Um, but they I mean it's working, you know, as as you said, LG, it's it's a great product so far. They're generating some serious revenue. I don't know if you talk about the token at all, but it's currently a$2 billion FTV, $2.2 billion FTV, 500 million market cap. Uh, I imagine you go

you go down further stream to invest. Not you're not investing in the big dog like KO, right? Are you talking to me? Are you? Yeah, I'm talking to you, LG. Uh, I had a lot at the airdrop and uh, you know, I'm a I'm a I'm a big- time seller. If you're a DJ, you got to The most important skill to master, Kyle, is selling. very different than maybe a lot of thinking you guys have. Uh but you know, if you're holding Bitcoin, I don't know if you want to master selling, but I think if you're holding these things that are, you know, the current meta and they're going to last a quarter or two at best, um you master selling. If something can sustain like this, like Kaido is one of the biggest one of the biggest tokens that's come back since the end of the the tariff kind of era,

you know what I mean? Like since that midappril uh huge dip, Kaido's up uh over 2x, right? So that's pretty good. It's nearing all-time highs, right? So, that's that's pretty bullish. And they um they've done a really good job of incentivizing people to stake their token, right? They've got a nice little flywheel yesterday. K people that stake Kaido get like pretty regular airdrops. Yesterday, they got one for a protocol called Huma Finance, which I think is a payment app. Um that was worth about 4% of how much people had staked. So, immediate like an immediate 4% liquid airdrop. And that's just that's just one day of their rewards, right? So the Kaido team working really hard to incentivize people to stake the token.

And I read I was reading this morning that only like if anybody is actually interested in that from an investment p standpoint and this actually Kyle made me pause it. I was like you know what maybe this is a token for me even at 2 billion. I read somewhere that to be in the top 20 or 25% of Kaido stakers you only need 100 tokens, right? So you're looking at 200 bucks to enter just the top tier. And that that that airdrop yesterday that was that was weighted. So it's not you wouldn't you would it wasn't tiered so you wouldn't have dramatically massive rewards on that. Um but just something for consideration that it is uh the stakers are are relatively topheavy but to get into some of that top tier is not too hard and you know clearly that's where they're they're they're funneling a lot of their

partners is to do that. Yeah. for our DeFi Dens and pro subscribers who know about Pendle, you can also buy the Yield token to be to get these airdrops. Now, we're not saying that KO is a good investment. I just want to make that clear. Maybe LG maybe LG is, but he's got a whole different I don't say anything like that. I never say I just I'm I only recommend selling sell sell. It's Oh, it's up 10x. Sell sell it. Here's my here's my problem.

This so this is basically like a marketplace for marketing is what they're kind of doing uh for ads, right? We've seen these many many times. So like in newsletters, Substack and Beehive, they have this they've created these as well. They never work. Um they work in the beginning because everyone's excited and then they don't work because we can sell sponsorships for our newsletter, for example, if it's human to human. we talk to someone, we can sell them for like 10x more than we can sell them in like an automated tool, right? So for us, we never use the automated tools that Beehive or Substack gives because it's terrible, right? It doesn't actually work because people won't put out real money because they need to actually speak to someone. It's just what we've noticed over the years.

All of our clients, same thing. So it always fails. It's always exciting in the beginning and then it fails. So that's one red flag where I'd be careful. This one's different though. This isn't cash. This is tokens. So like maybe there is some longevity to that. Although I would say with tokens generally there's no longevity for most tokens ever. So I don't know maybe it's going to be a bit different. That's one thing that worries me. The other thing is a thousand product. The only reason they can charge that is because they're the first and the only one to really do this. I guarantee you that that comes down significantly in the next year. So these numbers of 32 million which again they haven't actually made. They'll flaunt that but they haven't made 32 million.

It's the annualized number which is is boosted because they just launched some stuff. Um, I think that that margin is going down a lot and there's no way they're going to continue to charge $1,000 a month for teams to use this thing. So, I just um I think that's why I I'm not I'm not bullish on KO whatsoever. But I think it's a great tool. I'm bullish on the tool. I'm not bullish on I was going to say though, are you bullish on the tool though? Because I'm bullish on the tool. I'm not interest It's helpful, but it's not helpful for so many people. It's helpful for like like a media company. It's helpful for, right? like we can go find oh who would be a good you know brand to work with for our marketing agency you know who's spending marketing capital in crypto ko is an amazing tool for that

our sales guys use it so like it's useful for people in the industry um and then I guess it's also useful for koss do the koss need to pay that thousand a month they don't right LG no no no so they're good okay so it's obviously useful for them and for as long as this whole marketplace thing works and it's like it can give people that have small followings good money then it's useful But I don't know how long that's going to stay for. These things generally don't last that long. That's my only concern. That's why you master the art of selling, Kyle. That's that's the whole point. Listen, even when I if I sound bullish, it's just like this is exciting. My my bullishness is like it's like on a 24-hour loop, you know what I mean? It's like I wake up every morning

and all my sentiment for all the projects I track gets a refresh and a re re-evaluation, you know? So, it's just like as of this morning, I'm like, "Yeah, Kaido's great." But it's like, ask me tomorrow, I'd be like, "No, no, no. I got to get out of that." uh you know that's that's what we do on Milro DJ. Uh, but what I will say, Kyle, is that, you know, from a marketing tool perspective, that's what's impressed me the most. And, you know, yeah, you know, Jay, you've been in marketing for a really long time. I I was as well way back, like social media marketing. God, it's so hard to to parse through who are good influencers to work with, right? And especially if they could ever apply this tool outside of Twitter or to other things that aren't crypto, they could apply this to Instagram for like

footwear, you know what I mean? like this would be so valuable to know who's your most who's who's your actual good organic like Nike influencer or something like that, right? So, I don't know if that would ever pump the token because I actually my biggest gripe with Kaido is I thought they they launched their token way too early. I thought that they were out of the gate. They'd only been doing their Kaido Yaps for like a two months and they had just started getting kind of popular and getting a lot of traction and then they launched their token and to me that was way too early. It was unnecessary to launch their token so quickly. 75% uh still waiting. Exactly. Yeah. So, it's like they have Well, a lot of that is incentivized for staking again. I think their their APY is like 10% or something

like that on on on staking, right? So, a lot of it is going to people that stake, but I thought it was a little too early in the product. I was like, "This is a great product." Like, I see a really long-term vision for this. I I thought I I felt like they could have milked their like airdrop farmers for at least like a year and they did it for like two months. So I think that they're worried about competition. I think they're worried about competition. So they needed to they needed to jump on it in the moment because it's not super hard to build this product they built. Like Misari could launch this tomorrow if they wanted to. Now they haven't yet. They have some sort of similar stuff but like they could. So I think there's a lot of data companies that could do

this. So it's not I think that's why they're like [ __ ] we got to take advantage because we got attention which is what they're all about right. So there's cookie kind of new cookie right now. Yeah, cookie launched a competitor last week with Snaps. Uh, and Cookie is a great cookie is a very similar platform more on the AI side in terms of tracking like the agents specifically, but they've rolled out a similar product, right? So, but you know what? Like Adrian, he brought up cookie. Fun and the snaps last week, I believe, and someone reached out to me like two days ago, and he said like, "Hey, you are um a top 100 of uh SP talking about Spark.

So, you should really sign up for cookie.fun and like try to win more snaps and those kind of stuff." Like, wow, really? So, that's why you want to talk about Spark on the show today. Oh, I see what's going on here. I'm pissed. They are sort of like gamifying the whole attention game and it's really like if you are building crypto, you need that attention. And like this really feels like if there is leaderboard, you know, someone is reaching out to me because they will get a I don't know some fee or something that they I use their in invitation link whatever. And now like I tweeted something about Spart this morning and now I I'm like looking at the leaderboard and I see like how I'm like improving my rates there and it's like

it it's kind of fun, you know. So wow. If it incentivizes quality uh content, then it's perfect, of course. And honest content creators, as long as it doesn't get gamed by certain crypto Twitter personalities who like to do this. Oh, it'll get But there's something here. I think that's the key thing is like info, infoi, is that what we're calling it? Um there's something here, so don't sleep on it. Um, it's still early, but I think there's something cool going on here as the world continues to go more and more social and care more and more about attention. And so to to be able to tokenize attention and gamify it and automate it for ads, like it's really

cool. I think there's there's there's a business here for sure. Um, and you're already kind of seeing it with some of these leaders. So, it's pretty interesting. LG, do you have to go or can we talk one more thing with you? You have to go. I I I mean, what what do you want to talk about? What's the other thing you want to talk about? Virtual. You get based upon the top. Can you delay your show? Can you just like virtuals? Come on. Can't you delay? Okay, now I'll tweet. I'll tweet. I'm gonna be late because Kyle wants to wants to be bullish on virtuals for a second. Kyle wants to ape so much money into virtuals right here. No, I do not. I definitely out the first time. Yeah.

Yeah, we tried that once. So, okay, while you're doing your tweet, LG, let me let me set it up. So, okay. Virtuals is up 11% 11 and a half percent this morning. Uh, can you share my screen, Jay? Yeah. Um, it's got a a crazy comeback. So, it was down to it went down to 0.45. Okay. It used to be at at $461. And it's I mean, it's crazy. So, there was Virtuals and AI6Z kind of the two competitors. AI6Z hasn't moved. It's still down in the like at the bottom. And Virtuals has just gone all the way up to it's sitting at $2.40 now. So, that's wild. Whereas, if I look at AI6Z, let me just pull that up.

AI AI16Z this thing at least last I checked hasn't done anything uh which maybe is an opportunity I don't know but like look at that it's crazy so virtual obviously doing something if I look at the chart here's the virtual charts of like their um their launched agents nothing's changed look at this nothing's moved at all they launched only 23 last week so like what the heck's going on here what could be happening and so uh our our resident DGEN is going to tell us what's going on here because obviously we've missed the boat here.

But yeah, agents that have graduated, there's only three last week, one the week before. So, if you look at revenues of virtuals, it's at 14,000, up from 1,000 uh back in April. So, okay, there there's a little bit of a comeback, but they used to be at 3 million in a week. Uh but what the heck's going on, LG, because these charts seem very odd. Listen, let me tell you a little story, okay? the holidays, Christmas time last year, those couple weeks, it was a great time to ignore your family and be in the virtual trenches because they were cooking. They was cooking, man. There was runners every day and all this stuff. There's even Jesse from base like accidentally launched an agent and then pretended it was his intern. It was just

chaos, okay? And that died off, okay? that all that stuff just it just fell off a cliff and then when the Trump launches memecoin it just sucked the liquidity out of like everything all meme coins all AI all died you guys know that story everybody knows that story how is virtuals going to survive right because they were the hot meta through the fall right November December everybody kept fading the the website's ugly the AXBT agent is silly like why is that worth 300 million so they had to figure out basically a way to stay relevant and to come back with like launches that were a lot fairer right they realized that being a pumped fund equivalent for AI agents wasn't really going to work for them too well. So, they came up with uh the Genesis Virgin Points program, which is basically a pre-sale, like a token pre-sale program

where to qualify for pre-sales um you need to earn their points. And to do so, you can u do a variety of tasks. And those things are at the most basic level, stake your virtuals on their site, right? Incentivizing stake and similar story to Kaio. Um, you can yap about them. So, partnership with Kaio. Uh, you can you can tweet about them, create quality content about uh virtuals and get some points. You can uh buy the launches with your points. So, that again a flywheel. It's like the more of these new launches you buy with your points, the more points you get. And now they've said that if you buy these new launches, you can also stake those to get more points. You can see you can see

this the form that I'm making here. Uh but basically uh or you can also hold other agents like Vader and stake those which Vader is kind of one of their largest partner agents on the platform. Basically what they want you to do is earn these points, earn them on a daily basis, trade virtuals agents which also gets you points and then the amount of points you have you can use to buy this pre-sale. So it's kind of like a two token ecosystem where the more points you you pledge to a launch the higher the amount of tokens you'll get at launch. And so what they have is they have like maybe three or four of these per day that actually are successful that actually uh get out the gate. Like they'll be uh I think their base minimum is like I think 112,000 virtuals or

maybe half of that. Anyways, they have a base minimum of like we need this amount pledge like this amount of pre-sale un uh pledged to basically have our launch go through otherwise the token does not launch. Um so what they've done with this is they are trying to kind of like curate good builders in a slightly decentralized way right like they realize that they needed curation of launches but that it wouldn't make sense for them to handpick who is being launched on the platform and who's not. So, they're leaving it up to the community to basically look at this board of, okay, here's the upcoming launches. Here's the date that they're going to launch their pre-sale. And do you, the community, want to get in on the pre-sale? And if you do, it's going

to be weighted to how many points you have available to you to sell. The biggest part of their flywheel slight kind of you're locked in the Ponzi with everybody else is that once you sell one of these new launches, uh let's say today you got it on the new launch and it's worth a couple thousand bucks and you sell it, you get into uh what they call Jeep Jail, uh or the what the community calls Gail where basically you're frozen from participating in launches for 10 days. So really incentivizing not selling. Yeah. So, it's just like you keep buying, you keep getting points, you get more and more points, you keep by getting agents, they're worth more worth more and more and more. The price goes up. Uh, but then once you sell, it's like, oh, you're locked out for 10 days. But

again, selling is an art. So, you got to get good at it. So, is is virtual is is why is the price ripping then? Is the price ripping because Oh, because everyone's in jail and they can't sell. Everyone's in jail. Well, everything you just discussed is business model stuff that like cool, like great, I'd love to see them experiment. That's that's great. Like, but it doesn't really feel like that's the reason their price is pumping. Uh I think price is pumping because well, a few reasons. I think staking um what they did is they created a system where staking for longer periods of time gives you uh a larger daily allocation, right? So basically you get these points on the daily and if you lock up your virtuals uh for the

maximum of like two years you get a lot more points. So I think that that is bringing new people to the ecosystem, buying the token, staking it for a long amount of time to then try and get these these virtuals um launches. What I've been working on the last like week or two is I took like I don't know like a thousand bucks or something like that. I locked it in virtuals for two for two years basically cons considering sunk cost and I'm like I'm never gonna see that again because I don't know what the price is gonna be like in two years. I'm gonna assume it's not this. Um but what I'm trying to do is is get enough of these new launches to then at least make like break even if not being in a profit to then choose my moment to sell it all

and be in jail for 10 years and then I'll have broken even be in profit and then any new points I get, any new launches I get, I'm all in profit, baby. Right. So, this is like this is a very like short-term kind of strategy turnaround for me. Uh, but to answer your question why the token's pumping, I think I think this is they've done a really great job with the flywheel, man. Like a lot of like there's a lot of volume here on these new launches. Um, and I think it's something that people are surprised that virtuals has come back like this and that it's in the conversation again. Um, and they've done, you know, we just covered a really important part is they they've turned thousands of random small accounts into marketers by working with Kaido. And a lot of those small accounts are gonna

like people are like, "How do I get started?" Even people like me are like, "Well, just buy some virtuals and stake it." Kyle's flipping out right now. I was gonna say, no, I was just saying Kaido's influence coming back, which is pretty sick. The um I think the good thing that virtuals did is I remember back like a month or two ago, I was like, you know what, I'm actually getting very bullish or bearish story on virtuals because the pumpf fun thing for AI agents, as you said, LG didn't make sense to me. I was like, pumped out fund works because there's millions of tokens and there's no way we're going to have millions of AI agents today. That's just not going to work where there's any value going towards them. So, I was like, I don't see this thing working. What I didn't realize is they they kind of pivoted and

they went with this Genesis thing which brought the attention back. So, I think the fact that they can they've now like they've seen their failure or what wasn't going to work and they were able to kind of pivot and bring it back, that's pretty impressive on the team. Now, the thing is they're gonna have to just keep doing that, right? And that's that's what's tough. That's what's tough. That's why I would But wait, there's more. But wait, there's more. I thought of another reason why Virtuals is pumping, too, is that they um they've also introduced virtual supported launches. So, where a token will launch and then the virtuals team will go buy a bunch of it and airdrop it to stakers.

So, it's just it's just all these juicy like here it's all just holding it. you get all this money, you know, and like listen, this is a this is a this is a really good DJ system, honestly. Like me, I'm like, God, this has so much mind share. I literally check in every day and I refresh points. I'm like, points, tell me how many points I have, you know, like I just want to know. And as a result, um I think I think that it will hold that so long as like most conditions are bullish, right? like you've got I think a lot of I think if you're looking for like something that you can even passively do as like a DGEN you want I I think that this would be one of the top things to do right now. I mean we talked about Kaido but it's like

listen man a lot of people didn't want to pick up their ex account and start tweeting about all these random protocols. Right. Right. So this to me is like that's the next best thing um for members. Yeah. Go ahead. I was going to say for pro members you guys know we tried to do this whole virtuals thing. It didn't work out. We put a tiny amount of our portfolio in it so it didn't really matter to us. um we didn't make any money off it. In fact, we lost. Uh but this is why we realized what we're not good at and we brought in LG who is good at this. And so soon there's products coming for pro members where we'll help you guys navigate this [ __ ] It won't be myself, Martin helping you navigate this [ __ ] because we don't know

this [ __ ] but LG does and so he will help you. And so if you guys want to have fun in the trenches, um LG's your guy. So this is not [ __ ] This is not [ __ ] This is fancy Ponzi, man. This is this is a performance panzenomics. This these are not [ __ ] It is [ __ ] Yeah. I was about to say that Sky is going to enable staking soon and they will just distribute 50% of the revenue to all the stakers. So it's a it's a very different thing. But what's cool about learning about the Ponziomics is when a good company with real revenues and real product market fit uses some of those Ponziomics along with actually a real business with real

revenues and real token buybacks that can hypers scale a I mean that's what Micro Strategy is I guess they're not actually a good company they're all pansomics too but they're using a good asset let's say uh but like so if Sky decides hey you know they make a hundred million a year or whatever it is they want to start doing some of these tok like Ponzomics to boost things that I actually am a fan of, right? Because it doesn't just fall to zero when it's all when those ponomics end. Whereas things without, you know, real revenues or a real product, they get the hype and when the attention goes away, the thing just goes to zero. That's the scary thing.

Whereas, if you get good companies to do it, maybe there's something cool there. So, we'll see. So, it's good to learn this stuff at least, right? LG, I know you got to go. I'm sorry for keeping you long, man. And I'm sorry for those who wanted to watch the the show, but we appreciate having you. I'm not sorry. They still get to watch it. They're 15 minutes late. It don't matter. Listen, Milk Road Milk Road DGEN every morning 11:00 a.m. Eastern, 8:00 Pacific. My channel soon to be on its own channel as well. Uh, and soon to be in your inbox and on YouTube and in the podcast and all that stuff's coming. So, uh, thanks for having me, guys. Really fun to join the call. And uh thanks. Uh this voice is available to anybody who wants to listen to it 15 minutes a day

every single weekday. Thanks LG. Have a good show. For those listening, um LG stole the end of the show there. And I'm curious, do you guys like that kind of talk? Uh let us know in the comments for those listening on YouTube. Uh I guess you can do comments on Spotify, too. So let us know. Did you enjoy this one? Obviously, we're going to try and and maybe bring LG on this show more often. I'm not sure. This was um I wouldn't say different topics. cuz I guess we always talk about this kind of stuff. So, it wasn't it wasn't too different. But nice to have a different insight from from LG. I think we wrapped there, guys. I don't think we needed to to go in. We We didn't get to hear from Martin today much though. LG kind of stole the show. LG stole the show. LG

stole the show. Like, which is great. Martin will come back next week. Martin. Martin, give us a little tease. What's going on in your world? What are you noticing? I'm learning because Jay, sorry you go Martin. I'll chirp Jay afterwards. But actually, let me do it first. Jay has a a mandatory rule of the shows need to be 45 minutes and it goes 53 minutes. So far we're into this thing and Jay's like let's go keeping it on time. No, go Martin. Sorry. Like I am in my own bubble. So like I take this as an opportunity to learn something that I have no idea about. So for me it's a it's a good learning curve here. So I I really appreciate like these conversations and like even though I'm not going to using these products or I'm

not going to invest in any of these tokens, that's fun and I'm happy that I'm now aware of everything that's happening. Crypto can also be fun. It's not only fundamentals. Thanks for tuning in, folks. Appreciate you. Hope you guys enjoyed today's show. We'll see you guys back again on Monday. Have a wicked awesome weekend, y'all. Thanks for tuning in, y'all. Before I let you go, I got to tell you, our friends over at Gemini are doing a super cool contest right now. They're giving away two Tesla Cybert trucks. It's called the Cyber Beast Edition, and it is a custom Cybert truck wrapped in a custom Bitcoin design. It looks freaking awesome. Basically, all you got to do to get an entry in order to win these Cyber

Trucks is use your Gemini credit card or trade on Gemini exchange. For every 50 bucks you spend on your credit card or you trade on the exchange, you get one entry. So check it out. It goes until June 18th. It's open to US residents 18 and older. So sorry to everyone else around the world, but if you're in the US and you want to get a chance to win a sweet Tesla Cybert truck, check out the link in the show notes. Spend your money on your Gemini credit card or trade on their exchange and you could win a Cybert truck. And if you win, I hope you come pick me up and give me a ride. All right, thanks for listening y'all. See you again tomorrow. Have a wicked and awesome day. As always, if you liked today's episode, please hit subscribe and make sure you follow us so you don't

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Thanks so much for listening in my friends. Have a wicked awesome