Ethereum Due Diligence Committee Call #0

Transcript

nice to meet you all so i was brought in by superfiz uh thurston barrens i'm a hobbyist i got into ethereum two all over a month ago and started uh creating some tooling the s2 darker tool that builds clients from source and makes it easy to run them and that's your nickname on the groups you're a town okay then we talk on the other day yeah um you were consulted about this guy that had a thousand ether yep yeah i just didn't know your name well then i know all of you are we waiting for someone else uh it is 1003 my local time uh i think it's fine to go get started i'm super faced is climbing your desk

he's telling me he wants to watch a different video um this is me parenting did you want this one so uh my check this out this is me being professional um jack was like wear this shirt uh we are recording morning alex um my intention here i've kind of said what i look for in the due diligence committee um and my plan is to turn this over to you all and be an observer i hope you'll recognize that i can't keep my fat mouth shut so i'll pop in when i can't keep my cat mouth shut but other than that i intend to turn it over to you all um and i've asked kirk to get the conversation started

before we start is anyone taking notes or i'm happy to do it if no one's doing it i'm recording it but i think it would be superb if you're willing to take notes i don't have the i'm not a good notetaker at all um if if you're willing and able that would be great yeah come on cool and while i am turning it over to kirk i know that everyone doesn't know everyone so we should probably begin with introductions but again i'm out yeah let's do introductions uh and kirk who was going to say something before we started um well i'll go ahead and take the lead here for a little while but i won't stay in it long i had told superfiz i don't have the ability or time to really

to kind of lead such a group but i but i reckoned i'd likely be a fairly active participant and rather than me introducing first i'd rather introduce later since i'm facilitating at this moment in deference to supervisor's request so uh i was the one who asked that some of you introduce yourself on that other channel for those of you who joined later i will just explain the context of that we had a little private uh i'm not a discord expert but a private little channel but apparently they can't get more than 10 people in there so where we all put our introductions at least six or eight of us did those have now gone into the ether and maybe we could write something for the benefit of those who aren't on this call at some point and introduce ourselves briefly in

writing to help those who aren't here but for this call let's have short quick intros and round around um let's start with uh alex hey guys yeah i started the michigan ethereum group back in 2016. um obviously this year we haven't been very active um and then i'm a mod of uh east acre so i just happened to see the channel and saw you guys were meeting and i figured i'd jump in just to see if there's something i can help with um but i don't even really know what the goals are so i'll just be here listening and if i can help uh somewhere i'll let you know well you forgot to mention that you discovered the deposit contract deployment i did i discovered the deposit contract four hours after it was deployed but

didn't know if it was a real thing or not but of course it took a community that's somewhat decentralized to all agree on the deposit contract because of course a moment after something's deployed it could be deployed in many instances and uh i i thought that was beautiful how we've developed essentially a social consensus of where it was there was a little work behind the scenes on that but let's just uh go around i'll keep asking and i'll patricio you were just saying something why don't you introduce uh once you finish introducing you have to pass the introduction button to someone um yeah and i i think most of you must have known me because i know all of you kind of well

um i'm patricia i'm from buenos aires but i'm right now in denver because of life circumstances um i've been on the stream since 2015. i have a somewhat technical background i care a lot about different two i hear a lot i care a lot about power which is an nft project and i'm very happy to be on the it's taker core team pushing initiative forward on the due diligence committee i don't expect to have much influence because i'm not that structured to do like real you deletions i don't do really deletions i'm an ico investor and we don't like you deletions but i still think i can be very helpful because i know

almost every relevant actor in the ecosystem very likely in person so so i don't expect to have a primary role in this group but i'm very happy to help with everything i know and and with that said i passed the introduction button to michael who goes by umberica hello yep i am anvedica michael geesen i'm one of the moderators for the east acre community i'm sort of the de facto web 2 developer guy i think that's probably going to be the limitation to my contributions to this group hopefully helping develop develop the permanent home for the

due diligence committee i can help out any other capacity that's needed whether that's organizing you know whatever just being an extra hand but that's that's who i am and what i do now let's hand it over to uh nolin hey i'm a you know moderator my microphone not working now it is that's better your volume is close equals now i'm you stake or moderator i think most

of you probably know me you probably know me as sparta um being in the space since 2016 and joined spitfly and the beacon chain project i think six months ago now and the journey started back in the prism discord channel yeah and for the diligence team i'll probably be the guy that focus on ux stuff instead of like i'm not sure how we are going to structure it but if there were some kind of expect where we were discussing security aspects

i think i would be the guy but if it came to ux um yeah that would be me my my my part yeah just passed it to toronto hello everyone terence here one of the um co-founders from prismati labs i have been involved in um eth2 since early um 2018 we started our we started out implementing sharding and and at the summer of the year we eventually switched to a proof of stake and sharding will be phase one which is coming up and um and my strength for this i think will be more

on the technical side and i can reveal the staking service and point out their pros and cons their strength and their weakness and i can also help with organization as well so yeah pretty much can do everything so yeah all right i will pass it to um jeff thank you for taking care of us we're going to use those later for sure thanks terence um my name is uh jeff coleman i've been lurking around in various of these blockchain communities one way or another since about 2010 following the ethereum project since the

beginning i think a rule that i that i often play is uh more of like a theoretical or white paper type review um that's something that i've done quite a bit of um first with the company i helped start uh ledger labs and then a new company that many of the same people helped start l4 ventures might have heard of some of the different projects we're involved in like eath global or statechannels.org some of those types of things so i i'm not organizationally gifted and

i'm notoriously unreliable but uh from time to time i i do pipe in with a useful commenter too so that's me awesome i think i'm the last one left right awesome so um my name's madison um i'm uh i call myself mc of the ether dot io which is supposed to be an education platform about ethereum um you know skill set is doing all the things that other people don't want to do so making sure the trains run on time scheduling uh stuff like that i'm happy to do well it's very nice that we have a very

uh like a very cool selection of talent like we almost don't know don't overlap on what we do and and we have a fair share of technical people and non-technical people and and it also seems that um all of us wants really to uh see this happening and to see this little initiative becoming something respected and and something that really creates value for the community so this is impressive yeah i didn't get to introduce myself i'm super fizz um yes i what patricio said i think is spot on like there is a definite vacuum for this kind of product um and so

it's going to be an easy sell the the work is going to be easy and the product is going to be valuable so i'm superfiz hank i've been doing bitcoin since 2011. i gave up bitcoin for uh ethereum in 2014 and i have been in love with the community building aspect of ethereum since about then um i got excited about building a proof-of-stake community because i feel like staking can be a truly community effort um and so again seeing a vacuum i was able to set some stuff up and it's it's really caught on

so um i'm excited all right um so something to question uh or well this is quick so so whoever was going to say something um feel free to do after finishes um one would one could think um why does the community need a due diligence comedy and and that's a good question because it might feel like overblown or exaggerated at this stage but if we think that the future of ethereum is to run on proof of stake and that proof of work mining will be shut off only handling the requests from the public to understand what's

going on in proof of stake and who's legit and who's not and who is respected and who's not it's already a full-time job and justifies the team thinking that is hash mining it's a multi-billion dollar industry and and that is fake it must think that this delicious comedy is the list that's going to be necessary to handle all the misinformation and the drama that's going to happen around everything is taking um thank thank you patricio um

[Music] i want to chat about that more but but let me just do two other things for the intro one um i'd ask superfiz can you tell us who's not here i know jgm is not here i believe you added somebody else to the group so let's at least put them their names on the table even without their introductions so that terence can get them in the notes who am i missing besides jgm who's j is he james or jim he's jim right that's g mcdonald from uh attestant okay yeah so i just wanted to know i mean i think he's going to be a very helpful contributor um i don't know him personally but i was super pumped when i saw his name show up

i've had one email conversation with him a few months ago and um he treated me so wonderfully just love those kind of people in our community uh who else do we have so guys i believe i got ben eddington to join us um and again the these are these are people with significant other responsibilities i know everyone you know has significant other responsibilities so i don't ever expect timing to be perfect um but um i know that ben had some concerns about a conflict of interest but i assured him that there are other potential persons with conflicts of interest but we're also all able to set those aside to perform due diligence um so

and anyone else i saw another name superfiz you had asked uh and i i may be the one to say something about him but i think you'd ask colin meyer i don't see it introduce him in the group but i saw his name get there and i think but i said welcome caller admire but nothing so is he in or not and if he is i'll say something briefly let me check oh so and that was i did him to the group to ask him while i was sleeping i don't know i didn't verify but my assumption is well then we won't say any more about that but this would you take the okay i was going to say there should be an intro maybe by you to have that in the written record

but i'll just say that i did have a conversation with superfiz um let me introduce myself and then it'll set up the context for colleen meyer i'm a guy who didn't undergrad in double e but as you can see many many decades ago long before any of you all were around and um i just grew up with microcode so i was writing code in all those early years but in many many ways i hung up those technical spear spurs many decades ago and moved into more of the management project management space mostly enterprise product development um so i was with ibm storage tech and then later on with startups in the kind of 2000 2005 time frame but the short intro on me is i made a major shift at in 2005 at age 50 and jumped over to the more uh

some people call it social science i don't think it's a very good science but i do think it's a very fascinating subject to study and went and got a grad degree in economics not because i liked mainstream economics but because i wanted to understand emergency order and bottom up social formation which is exactly the kind of stuff we're talking about and doing here so i went deep in the weeds theoretically on that um started a space flight robotics company in the 2012 that eventually sold i found learned about blockchain not bitcoin in 2013 but was too stupid to get involved 2015 i was looking to say what is the likely most likely watching version 2 blockchain there were many out there defending

et cetera that might be the network effect winner and i put my shot in on with ethereum early in 2016 uh went to warfare consensus later in 2016 got involved in the cleanup of the dow i sounded behind the scenes and so i i go back and then worked three and a half years in consent the space through consensus and then i retired in 2019 so i'm out of the space not working and since this doesn't pay me a dime and i have no income from anything from consensus so i think that's just my quick intro and then let me introduce colin meyer in that context in the context of my consensus involvement i knew colin meyer he's uh now according to superfiz going to join us you could think of him as

somebody like you know terrence or uh or um what do you call it jim mcdonald or any of you who work in the space buddha works at uh jane uh uh beacon shane dot well wait a minute bit fly all right i'm trying to get the name straight buddha the point is he's gonna have some because he works at consensus and i believe he's gonna introduce himself but he's kind of a uh doing a product related job on staking and what not at consensus so he too will be somebody with both a legitimate and well-disclosed conflict of interest but really some value to add to this group in the space or at least that's the call superfiz made i just want to introduce him that much um so with that um

i oh and i should have said about myself i in the role i will probably have here is probably more of a philosopher and uh if you want to talk about you know bottom up philosophy and whatnot call me on a rainy wednesday afternoon and bring a big cup of coffee and we'll chat i'm i'm happy to do that kind of thing i don't think i'll be as much nuts and bolts leading this but i'm happy to help facilitate this conversation till we get things straightened out and know who's doing what next um what now with that and internet point out one other member um i believe derek is also joining us uh madison if you can give us a quick and yeah so uh derek's my uh kind of co-mc at the ether

which is the education platform derek's relatively you know he's been sort of interested in covering crypto for a little while became much more interested in the past eight months so uh he's a great representative of someone who's still getting up to speed um but he's eager to learn more and uh really understands that mindset great and and so while i'm looking to several people to be thought leaders or schedulers i am also looking for someone who's able to be the time keeper because i know that these kind of projects can spin into several hours days or weeks of discussing one project and i feel like for the sake of progress

we need to have someone who says we're going to discuss this for one hour and then agree on a conclusion um i think that's the only way we can move forward is there anyone here who wants who has the available bandwidth to be the time keeper for the meetings i'm happy to do that you're hijacking madison so do that both for if i could ask you to do it two levels do it short term on this meeting and think we'll we will in a moment begin to talk about what's our agenda for the next you know the last 30 minutes of meeting but secondly if you would help us keep focused on the meta timetable of the near term that superfiz outlined for us in one of those early posts where he was talking about something we kind of wanted to aim for i believe you

had the 24th in mind um if you would madison kind of run two separate time keeping tasks and help because we should be sliding in certain things what needs to do i'm guessing we will end up slotting sir i've been a long-term project manager we will end up slotting in certain things that if we're going to make the 24th you got to work backwards this has to happen on the 23rd 22nd and we'll slot some made of things in and i would just ask madison to help keep both of those uh patrice question and then i'd like to talk about the agenda for the night the last 30 minutes here today what do we think is important to get done today go ahead patricia is there an ascendant because i was going to kick off with a very controversial question so if there's an agenda let's look at it

um there is not currently an agenda so here's how i feel on decentralized bottom-up stuff um before we kick off with your next controversial question uh and figure out where that slots in let's the uh what are there's 11 of us here one of us not on screen and uh with those 11 let's um talk about what this what it what do we want to get accomplished as the biggest fd for today um we've got introductions knocked out um and and i'd like to get input from y'all and let's put something on our virtual whiteboard which right now is in our brains because there's no whiteboard presence who wants to throw in uh thoughts on the what we ought to accomplish today oh i'll jump in a little bit um uh

when i look out at uh what kind of like what the primary need for some better due diligence in this spaces i think like staking pools are are like one of the one of the biggest things when we look at the whole staking thing we've got uh this giant 32 eth barrier uh to the whole thing and like 32-week that's just a lot of money and um the the technical plan from the beginning because you know you have there's various limitations why you can't just make that threshold arbitrarily low is that we're going to solve that that financial barrier through relatively trustless tooling that allows people to get in with a much

smaller amount and either to get in just with a smaller amount or uh to uh enter into some kind of distributed relationship that would be some kind of analogy to a distributed mining pool where they can they can run uh a node on on some hardware that's available to them and get that get that barrier down and i think that's that's one of the most important questions facing the launch of the of the ethereum 2 chain is is is there a way for people who can't hit that 32 eighth mark to participate in a relatively trustless fashion well thanks jeff so staking pools is an

important thing for our early topic we haven't put that on the agenda for today is jeff's thought others um let's not limit the scope of the new deletions committee to staking polls because everything around ethereum needs to deletions like there are going to be likely tens of bitcoin chinese or deliveries um where it's legal finance some private staking service providers are going to have their own um then there's going to be other satellite services when phase 1.5 or 2.0 launches that are going to be different breaches

and it can even happen that in the long term future there are going to be intel chart communication services so if you have your die in a chart and you want to execute a dab in another chart you have to use a third-party semi-trust provider and you don't know if you want to go with this or that one so let's not limit the scope of the due diligence group to just taking polls because um it could be a pity so so my vote is to expand the deletions committee abilities to to do the deletions on on more related to ethereum's taking stuff

so to help out let me just break that into two parts i think patricio is saying one scope should be on our agenda today so i want to get a scope conversation going and i've written it down as a time that we'll explicitly talk about scope and everybody plus particio and i will all get our opinions in secondly patricio has clearly made a point that while staking pools may be a timely and important near-term thing as jeff pointed out um there's some real value in uh in obviously looking at staking services or clients and other other kinds of things okay i agree so what's the next agenda question what i'd like to see today is get an idea of what are the near-term projects

we're going to look at and who's going to do the looking so since that is a very broad environment right now i don't think we're gonna you know in the next couple weeks when they're probably not gonna hit every single pool and every single service but what are the most important ones we think we should be focusing on and then one of the groups and when do they come back with first findings so i have a vision for this in the beginning uh so my vision for this in the beginning is getting a top-level domain and that's something i've asked michael to begin working on and then rather than jumping right into staking pools

begin with a softball and that is the four launch clients um because can i interrupt on this one i i want you to say that i just don't want it to happen right at this time in the meeting because i want to still get the meta agenda agreed to because of time and then madison won't have to come beat on me to be to get done on time so so far i've heard and i think we have good consensus on this that we want to talk today about scope and we want to talk about near-term projects what and who and sounds like supervis will have some good input there for us but does everybody so far agree that scope and getting our neutral projects talked about are two major parts of our agenda

today yeah agenda anything else for the agenda today that will loop back around i promise and talk about those things and yes you'll get in then um so yeah can i say something my suggestion would be to have some kind of a matrix by which we are going to judge each of the pro projects so i don't know maybe yeah like i'm just a broad structure by which we're going to judge each of the project maybe it's ux security and how we are going to weigh in those

factors to a total score um so we can apply this these ideas on every project and we have a rough idea what we're going to look at um individually otherwise um yeah just to be structured in general metrics that may be sure i understand but metrics that we as a due diligence committee will use what are uh yeah what are our methods what are measurements yeah great others for agenda today in our limited 30 minutes left um have you added having a tld like a top-level domain um you'd like to discuss having the tld

in place in today's agenda patricio well it's something that wanted to get done so it sounds like but do you does that need to be on the agenda for the 11 of us to talk about today i'm just asking is that what you want here um yeah okay tld i i think near-term projects tld any others and i have one at the end i think within the scope the question of scope uh i think there needs to be a mission statement or at least something that we can use when people ask what is the ethereum due diligence committee about this is what can be said or this is what can be said on the website or this is

what can be said other places i like it all right with half an hour i think that's plenty of things to get done today i agree i agree torsten but i would just say this that we can have that be on the agenda and not try to resolve that mission statement here we can get two or three people so i think there was good agreement that the mission statement ought to be there i'd like to throw one out then myself to just give you food for thought i don't think it'll get answered today um if you ever take a philosophy class university one of the first things i'll teach you in the first week like a philosophy 101 class is that when having discussions there's often a lot of unstated presumptions that if you don't talk about them they don't get out on

the table and i want to put one of those on the table and that is um related to what i just put in writing on the the channel in which i shared with superfiz a couple weeks ago i'm going to come at this from a a bottom-up point of view but somebody else may come at it from the point of view and i think it was the presumption of but a minute ago to say hey we're going to be doing this we got to have the metrics that's more of a top-down view so what i want to put on the agenda to at least have a couple minutes of time is methodology are we aiming for something that is we the group that's been selected by whatever method per imperfect or whatever that superfiz decide to call us up and say would you be honest

are we the oracles who have the answers or are we that would be a top down approach we're gonna plan it we're gonna figure it out what are metrics and we're gonna rate everybody or are we gonna put a process together and machinery together that allows a more bottom-up emergent kind of solution that's a methodological question and i would argue it's it's worthy of at least having a minute or two to say hey maybe there's a strong consensus here you know everybody thinks it's it's something different than i think which is okay um but i do think it's important that we don't let that presumption go un unaddressed untalked about does anybody have any questions about what i just said in case it was too confusing or too philosophical making sense excellent so i've got scope

uh some near trump projects methodology tld mission statement on tld i'm wondering if that's a short one can we just assign somebody or to somebody with their head of style go work on that and they work with super fizz and we don't have a lot of debate about it or do we need a lot of talk about tld anybody willing to do that happen it needs to happen but so without a long discussion it needs to just be a domain that we can agree on because if i were choosing and i was adtc.org that's likely not available um i'm willing to have or willing to suggest a three-minute discussion on what that tld should look like and then ask michael to find a tld that looks like

that because i was asking this slightly different question because i think we're so short for time is the tld okay if instead we say super fizz and two others who put their hand up right now you guys go off and work about it and bring it back to us yes that's a fine that's a fine solution who else wants to work with supervisors on the tld and then we can check that one off i think unless there's a strong pushback michael is michael will be leading that because he'll be registering it and i would look for uh you know what we got that we will we'll do that in our in our core group discussion we can handle the dld yeah bring that back so that works for me so i'm going to check off tld

um i do think having some statement of admission is the same kind of important thing uh having been the part of many many groups trying to argue over mission statements for hours with well facilitated professionals of professional facilitators um that's not going to get resolved here so instead what i'm looking for is is it possible that two or three of you are interested in going and taking some stabs of that maybe you run stuff by superfiz to see if it all fits and it'd be good if it's a couple of the moderators or a lot about the history of the east faker community i'm happy to work with anyone else or to come up with a couple or a few different options and presented back to see if you guys liked any of the options and then we can

go from there super madison who else wants to be in on that i mean i would like to add superfins for sure don't want to become overly centralized but i think you've got a lot to say and it'll be an important supervisor anybody else on the on the mission who wants to maybe throw their hat in the ring if you're interested in it and you become interested later or if one of the people who aren't here like colin and jim and derek see the video and then want to get involved send a note to madison and superfiz and say that you want to pull again and you'd like oh i'll throw my hat in the super face i'll work with you in mission statement i missed who that was sorry i should get used to doing the raid

thing where where i speak in the third person torsten yorick down is interested in ah thank you for saying both of your names yorick because i know you threw yorick down on the on the on the channel by the way i'm i didn't say this earlier i'm kanteon on the channel it's the first time i've ever used candy on but i happen to be that's my small little business in colorado and i'm in denver by the way patricia you and i need to get together for coffee or beers or something uh but we have to do it earlier the governor wants us off the streets by 10 which is easy for me so anyway um torsten york down would like to be in thank you of course so we've knocked off two of them that i thought we could kind of do that way and get sub groups looking at

it i think this team needs to talk a bit about scope and about the near-term projects i think that's where we'll spend most of the rest of our time and believe me i'm just taking this role because it was thrown at me trying to keep us on target here the other thing is methodology means a short amount of talk um seriously i'd like to get at least three or four people putting your thoughts in do you think this is more something where this august body the group of people who become part of right now called the edcc are we the people who are going to fill out the papers and put the check marks in are we going to put something together that allows a bigger broader community thing which i call more bottom-up please two

or three or four of you say something i've said my piece on my opinion the only you know i think one is going to be easier than the other i'm going to say that and if you allow for you know if it becomes too if we don't want to sit out a framework or have a sort of rating process that we then share and people can then say oh we like this rating process or you know this is this is a way to evaluate things uh trying to create that framework or just provide long text oriented information i think it's it's going to be it's going to be difficult and i think we also have to weigh is it more important for people to know what's safe and what's not in the next month two months or is it more important to

create something that's uh you know less centralized and a little bit more uh community community-driven it may be different now rather than later i think that's valid people we're trying to think of stuff on the 24th completely yeah if i can weigh into that um i agree with you matazon uh this can be iterated upon so we can absolutely have something that says here are the criteria um we've laid them down as best we can and now we invite community feedback um all you people who know everything about security

you know poke poles in this and then you know version the thing and and iterate super fizz would like to welcome jim mcdonald to the room hey guys yeah sorry i was running running late as always but it's not cool but i'm here now so there we go hi jim you'll find we did mention you earlier we mentioned the people who weren't here so that you're in the minutes in the video for people to see later but glad you're here now cool thank you um we're we have an agenda where right now we've knocked off a couple of simple things and there's a couple people gonna go off and look at those things and uh remaining for the agenda is we're talking right now about methodology more top down more uh bottom up several people have very

good thoughts about uh they need to be much more uh top down and just get it done with good security to help label some of the scammers um quickly in the short term even if we want to move the other way longer term and then the other two agenda items we're talking about the scope of this group and the near trunk projects for the group thanks for joining jim others talking about methodology others with an opinion on more time i'll just i'll i'll just chime in quick i think like uh uh the the one of the big things in just deciding methodology is just clarity i think there's a lack of clarity on a lot of these these topics especially for the less sophisticated

users and uh you know i guess that does lean a little bit towards the more top-down style because it's easier to uh to understand if there's just kind of a really strict way of going about it uh that's consistent um but uh i mean other other there's other techniques for for bringing clarity but i think simplicity and clarity are paramount okay i'm making simplicity clarity others [Music] um i would just say as one of the proponents of the more bottom-up approach that i want to back out now or back off and say that i accept what i

just heard and i think would probably have to be quite a bit more directive as a group especially on this front end and leave it as kind of an open question an open debate to uh have anybody who wants to think about how do you make one sustainable longer term how do you become wiki media didn't become what it is today overnight how do you become one of the jewels of the internet and it wasn't that in 2003 when it was a few weeks or a few months old yet it is today and it's freaking decentralized and part of the reason it's as good as it is is one party or the other the insiders kind of get beat by uh by a different process so we'll talk more about that of those of you who are interested

but right now i'm hearing that it's definitely more um methodologically top down anybody disagree with my summary of that for where we are right now but happy to have the coffee chats with anybody who wants to explore that and think philosophically about the future well because what i argue is long-term sustainable and useful long-term may be different than georgia okay well let's go to scope or near-term let's talk about scope for this thing uh earlier the discussions uh had uh patricio saying certainly more than just taking pools just made an argument that staking pools was something we need to think about even in the short term and long term um i would argue and i think i heard

client software included others on scope what is our scope how do we summarize that who wants to think about us writing a decent scope statement well i hope that things like a scope um i didn't think we will come up on a minute um they are things that evolve and and they need to be fleshed out and and they are likely to evolve with time uh likely a lot so so i would just say it's important to know what the scope is we will just find out once we start rolling but the mission statement writers

probably we have some scope that kind of gets into their working so us talking about this will help the mission people when they turn some words into a few statements that we can use um others with input patricio said it's going to evolve with time can't argue with that i agree um yeah i also agree with patricio i believe it's just important that we have a scope for the beginning and i would say that for the beginning it would be staking pools and staking clients that's also the most important thing if we just look at ethereum 2 right now once we have done that i believe that um the scope will grow once more people get um

like the idea in general um or more projects like the idea and want a rating as well so yeah i kind of agree with patricio other um yeah i definitely say that um i i think that having a view to things beyond staking pools definitely seems useful uh maybe if we could offer a guiding principle for for how we decide what's in scope uh one of the things to me is is looking at the the the people who are most served and kind of most in need of of this kind of guidance

and i i really have a strong priority for uh less sophisticated users um who uh have some uh immediate immediate needs that they're responding to so i think like sticking pools is one of those up front um and there will be others that that are also important obviously choosing a client is also one of those up front so that seems in a similar similar theme and and there will be more yeah i can add some to that i think my preference is i would prefer staking poo first as top priority and then look at the client second because essentially staking pool uses the client right so when you judge the staking pool when

you grade the stake input you you somehow indirectly also grade and also grade the client as well and given the resource and bandwidth that we have we don't have that many people and we don't have that much time maybe perhaps uh putin's they can pull us priority is better yeah if we're voting i second that i think i heard two of you like what uh what terence just summarized that sounds like at least a strong initial consensus is for me staking pools um we were gonna turn the last agenda item was near-term projects can we agree if poor terrence is trying to write this all down

in the section of your notes it says your tune projects is it fair to say staking pools is definitely one of them i'm hearing a strong consensus on that i don't know that it's as clear that staking services or clients are definitely out yet but staking pools is in correct i see a lot of knowledge so parents can can write that on the on your term project put staking pools as the top item in turns and you guys have sold that idea really well um [Music] so on scope anybody else comments on scope if not i could try to summarize and see what karen says in the notes but i scope comments okay well it sounds like there was a

consensus that we necessarily need to focus on things that uh that we can handle with the resource we have in the time we have and old project manager we call i call that time boxing uh you know we've got a time schedule we've got a resource commitment so what we can do obviously has to fit into that box by the time and resources we have and uh so i'm hearing that um but i haven't heard any hard limits on our scope yet it's related to ethereum that's in the name that superfiz gave it um it's focused on staking in eth2 in the future but i haven't heard any description of hard limits does anybody

want to suggest one or just let that go on and go to the near term i would suggest that that staking be be kind of the zone that we're focused on in some way shape or form agreed i don't think we need to jump into proof of work or any of that stuff so no beijing versus open ethereum versus uh death broke out etc all right i think we i see a lot of heads nodding so i think staking we are we're really thinking about staking as a subset of all youtube questions and uh taking is a is a scope

for where this group is now push back if that's not a fair made a summary well i'm really happy we've got 12 minutes left and we knocked off we had five toppings and we've kind of knocked them off and that sort of raised my blood pressure a little when i was trying to think of a group i don't know how are we gonna get there but now i'm feeling really good we'll have some time to relax perhaps at the end but if i have it right if my notes are correct and terrance push back if your notes are different the agenda item we agreed on that we haven't yet got to is just the near term projects list and we already have the first item on that staking pools so can we turn to near-drum projects now

um is it fair to say getting a mission statement is a valid one i'm not trying to say it's the second most important so this is an unordination statement 100 percent and we need the criteria for that permission statement for tld yeah so um if we're if we're saying we wanna um focus on staking pools early right we need the criteria that we evaluate them by so that's that's kind of a necessary prerequisite so one near term priority i'm just putting words around what you're saying uh yorick dorsten to help terence write notes and you guys to put it on is you're really talking about the staking port we've got staking pools as an important near-term thing

but now we've got staking pool criteria or a short-term criteria what criteria will we use yeah we discussed that earlier right we need to come up with criteria that we use to evaluate things so these evaluation criteria we need those before we can start evaluating anything very helpful thank you for uh i'm sure turns will have that we got to think about how we have a whiteboard so we can all see what we have but what i'm going to suggest is after we finish getting the bullets on this near-term list that terence is writing down we'll come back around and suggest maybe who could look at some of the different things so staking criteria towards we're not done with it's just on the list okay um patricio has a question or a thought input

um yeah i post i posted it on the zoom chat before i think for the sake of productivity we need to have a channel where we can discuss all these topics on a return a synchronical form because we are on different time zones um we all want the due diligence committee to do well but we can't really put that much time on it so it's important to be the most efficient we can be what seems to be the shelling point on online communications these days is discord so i propose all of us get together on a single discord server and we do channels for every topic on

the agenda so we have a mission channel we have a scope channel we have uh whatever topic that was in the agenda we can have a methodology channel and then one can decide which projects want to take some time on because doing calls it's definitely unsustainable um i'm just i don't think we can expect to have more than one hour call per week so so instead of discussing single topics and making eighty percent of the member waste time yeah because it's expected that each topic may have two to four people working on let's just think on on who manages that group i think buta is our discord expert here

oh i thought you were volunteering well we have a discord expert yeah i i will set it up after the call um if i invite you invite everyone i just have to set it up is that going to be anybody on that i think i saw a lot of heads nodding and i like the idea but what do others think about patricio's idea having a separate discord away from each staker itself i'm fine with it others yeah thumbs up sounds good to me yeah strongly okay i see a lot of thumbs up sorry lamborghini you were saying i was gonna set that up i missed yeah i will set it up are you gonna is that gonna be our east taker

organization um we can talk about this later like on the phone it doesn't matter that's that would be my preference but yeah we'll talk about it later i have one made a comment on what patricio said he's singing my song in that there's no way you'll have weekly meetings and get all this stuff done which is one of the reasons i tried to shoot off dld or mission you've got to shoot it off to groups of people who then come back together in asynchronous communication in writing and will end up being a an essential means by which we make progress as a group i'll have to start a channel who's leading this next meeting when there is a second one because it probably isn't me i want to go back to the philosophical reads okay um anything else on the agenda item of

near-term did you want to add as a bullet i'm more curious on the project setup which is how we set up this project more like the infrastructure i think we should set up a google drive so we can put the meeting notes in there so it doesn't get lost and uh and yeah just basically project setup uh google drive can we see several um [Music] just maybe perhaps like a channel on discord and have files there pinned as messages or something uh related question do you want these um recorded meetings to be public on youtube

um um if i had to vote i said yes i'm normally a radical transparency person i personally don't have secrets anyone could ask anything they want from me so maybe not exactly this one because we don't have consent or maybe we can get consent but from now on i think it should be consensual that all our cults are public otherwise uh building trust could be much difficult like if you are radically transparent radically transparent building trust happens on its own i guess the question is eventually we will be fully transparent in public

right so given the current stage like how public do we want to be and how private do we want to be my i love the idea of radical transparency i even though i have an inclination to work on some of this privately i think the radical transparency is important i think the problem we're gonna face with that is getting a lot of contacts and dms from third parties who want to get in and promote and somehow grease their wheels now i i do think that transparency is worth that risk but it is going to cause all of our inboxes to fill up

with people who are trying to garner favor right just ignore them well let's assume that ignore button exists exactly conceptually we will strive for transparency eventually we will find out what's the balance because um it makes sense that if we are drafting something or or working progresses i'd rather not be transparency to not generate false expectations or to not fuel speculation like if we are working on the due diligence of a new something and we have working notes it's better if they don't leak but conceptually our calls uh

should be deemed transparent so so we can build the reliability people can see how we discuss internally so so um i i guess we will discuss this on our discord when when it's set up can i suggest one way to to take it for this meeting which now has four minutes left patricio could you set up a channel to discuss the transparency issue not with the intent forever but just to drive the damn thing to closure over the next week or two and then we'll know explicitly if we have another uh who has consent for you know which way we're going when the call starts does that make sense patricia it doesn't make sense can we all raise hands if you are okay with this

recording being public just a second we've got some people who are faces and not hands so i want to be very clear put your hands up again so i get it yeah and chef has said he's okay on the chat and then the other two people need to say something jeff and jgm who's um chef is okay and so it sounds like we have unanimity on this one we're okay which is fine with me thanks for making that so clear uh patricio i'm real big on the idea of making the implicit explicit and you just did that

perfectly um okay um we've got two minutes left um i promised yorick we would get back to uh the topic of uh it's on the near term projects we all agree staking pools but he had we wanted an item on there called staking pool criteria could we just get evaluation criteria yeah evaluation criteria could we get somebody who's going to a set up that channel on the discord and b um who which two or three people want to make sure they're focusing and talking about staking criteria i know i'm yorick you're in a yep thank you jim um yeah

as well that was para who said aye me sorry thank you great and i love that group critical thinking group all right well i'm super happy where we are is there anything we said would be on the agenda that isn't we're in our last uh minute of cleanup now um not really just um trying to like once we have the groups ready we can start with getting a framework i guess and by which we're going to judge each of the projects that's like the main thing once we have that done i

think it's going to be very quick and easy probably uh but getting there right awesome so it sounds like we've come to some some consensus staking pools is a very high priority and are just in the near term um but we're not taking our eye office services or clients we just first criteria is important we've got some people chasing tlds and mission statements beginning to draft something we've got a method of communication asynchronously a discord i'd say this was a heck of a good uh first meeting and we've got a lot of uh threads running off and executing i'm super happy to be here with all of you and i will be talking to figure out what

superfiz is going to have the privilege of facilitating the second call if there is one but i thank you all any other final notes before we close this one thank you for facility that was the most efficient new meeting i've ever had yeah it was good thank you yeah great great job productive very satisfied enjoy today guys thank you it turned it turned the time five seconds ago so we're there thank you all right hey guys thank you bye bye take care a good one kirk i can't shut this down so i'm letting you shut it who started

this uh it's mine oh yeah um all right i'm ending the