Ethereum complexity, Gitcoin round 13 and more - The Daily Gwei Refuel #339 - Ethereum Updates

Transcript

hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the delegate refuel where we cap the latest news and ethereum ecosystem i'm your host anthony sosano and today's the 21st of march 2022 all right everyone let's get into it so as you guys know i will be at blockchain week's event this week just to finally remind you guys i'm flying up to a sydney tonight from melbourne um i'm recording this in the day time this is the first time in my new house that i've recorded a refuel in during daytime you can actually see the sun in this room during the day guys i'm not just like hunched over and got like in a dark room all the time but um yeah very excited to kind of interview mehdi from the sigma pride prime team with one of these two client teams tomorrow morning in sydney and then uh on wednesday i'll be uh kind

of like having a chat with kane from synthetics could close out the day in melbourne at marvel stadium there so hoping to see you guys there it's i know it's been hard to get tickets for the actual physical event it's about five times oversubscribed i think even more than that they've been sending emails out saying you know please confirm that you are coming because if you know if people don't confirm they can give tickets to other people who really want to go so you know even if you're not there that's fine i mean i'm sure i'll see some of you at amsterdam as well next month and there's other conferences during the year too so just wanted to kind of give you guys a reminder there but also remind you that there'll be no refuel for tuesday or wednesday and they're probably not going to be any

newsletter for monday tuesday wednesday either but they'll be back on thursday you know thursday'll be a nice episode i'll just recap everything from from kind of like the two days that i'm spending in blockchain week and everything like that so very much looking forward to very excited for this is my first proper crypto conference since 8th denver 2020. so it's been a long time thank you covert for that but uh yeah now i'm i'm very very excited about this and hoping to to see some of you there anyway moving on so we have another all-called devs call that happened on friday and we have tim baiko's summary thread as usual going over everything that happened a lot of the talk uh sorry a lot of the call was talking about the merge right the kiln test net what happened with that as i mentioned last week there were a couple

of bugs in different client different clients there wasn't any issues with the spec and there weren't kind of critical bugs but it has kind of like brought the discussion of okay we need much more testing of these things we need to be able to test test test test because of the fact that it didn't go exactly as we wanted it to go right like i mean in uh the the bugs were i don't know if i'd call them critical but they did result in uh you know unexpected consequences and clients kind of like [ __ ] off of each other and actually if it had happened on main net i think prism was affected by this and from my reading if this had happened during the mainnet merge uh it would have actually been a pretty pretty bad thing because uh it means that the kind of the bugs chain

would become the majority chain because as you guys know prism is the super majority and this is as i've discussed before this is why client diversity is so important as well um but due to that you know just my own reading i haven't heard this yet but just to my own reading as i said to you guys like if this test net didn't go you know super smoothly which it went smooth enough but there were obviously a lot of um you know a fair few kind of like bumps along the road i don't think that we would have the merge in june now june was never a date given by kind of like the court devs or anything like that it was a target window and i've said that to you guys every single time but if i was to put money on it i wouldn't put money

on june anymore like july or august sort of thing is what i'm kind of like looking at now but again it's so hard to kind of like give a date here because it really does depend on these tests it depends on the confidence of the core developers of the core researchers and how they feel going into a merge right so i think that at this point don't i i wouldn't expect the merge in june but that's fine i mean i i i've said this before on the refuel too guys like when i look at this sort of stuff like does it really matter if it's two to three months later than what you expected it to be because in the grand scheme of things once it's actually out there everyone just moves on to the next thing and this is what happened with erp-1559 that took two and a half years to get to

maine and there were periods of time during that two and a half years where people were like is this actually happening right they actually questioned it and there were legitimate legitimate concerns with that because no one was really actively working on it um to get it into the network and then we we kind of like had this whole thing spun up you know tim biker lived the charge a lot here a bunch of other people as well to get this thing onto onto mainnet but when it comes to the merge it's in a very different position there's no is this thing going to happen it's happening it's just kind of like you know maybe it happens two to three months later than we expected it would so so yeah as i said guys like you know maybe maybe there's going to be another test net now because of this there's

definitely going to be a lot more devnets but i probably would expect at least one more test net like kiln uh to run through it again to make sure that that goes smoothly because this is a big deal guys this is bigger than any other upgrade in ethereum's history um this is bigger than launching the beacon chain and we can't get this wrong so it's better to kind of like have a quote unquote delay or kind of like release this two to three months later than people expected rather than kind of releasing it and then the network kind of like breaking and then we having to roll back and i mean that would be a disaster right so don't quote me on this please do not say you know breaking ethereum educator anthony sosano says the merge has been delayed no i'm giving my opinion on

where i see things right now and i'm and and you know there was no date given or anything like that so i don't consider this a delay but i i just like to keep you guys on the bleeding edge of this sort of stuff and to kind of learn through how i'm thinking about it but go read this thread from tim biker for yourself i'll link it in the youtube description but from my reading just reading between the lines like i normally like to do i just do not think a june merge is going to happen at this stage uh just because i just don't i don't believe that it should happen like honestly if i was kind of a core devil core researcher i would be pushing the others and i would be kind of suggesting to the others be like hey guys like i

don't think we should merge in june we need more testing blah blah which is exactly what's happening by the way but i would be doing the same thing because i know just how critical and important it is to get this thing right and unless everyone feels comfortable doing a merge on mainnet we shouldn't do it you know if ethereum is not a small network it's 300 billion dollar network trillions of dollars of value settle on it yearly uh i mean it's it's a worldwide global thing it's not something like a little small thing that we can just kind of like you know uh uh move fast and break things on that especially at the protocol layer so yeah that's that's the latest on the merge there uh but i'm still pretty excited i mean the kill and test net other than those bugs there seems to

have gone really really well it's still live it's still kind of like um chugging along there a lot of insights being kind of like gathered from that as well and the client teams i think are setting up better testing infrastructure as well which is good for not just the merge but also future upgrades obviously shanghai is coming after the merge when we have like withdrawals enabled stuff like erp 4844 and all that good stuff there so so yeah that's the latest on the merge and on to the next thing now uh which is a tweet thread from peter who is a core developer at go ethereum he is one of the longest standing ethereum core developers he's been around since basically day zero uh and he put together a thread about uh two two main things basically about complexity creep of the ethereum protocol and uh compensation for core

developers or salary pay you know uh kind of like eighth competition all that sort of stuff there i had a lot of people tell me i need to cover this okay fair enough i will i did kind of like give some more comments in the discord channel as well but i saved most of my comments for today's episode because i have a lot to say about this and i'm just going to say it from my head i have no pre-written notes or anything like that i'm just going to say what comes to my mind first thing i want to say just to give you the overall context here this is not the first time peter has put together a thread like this this is not the first time people have complained about core developer pay maybe complaint is the wrong word but like brought up

the issue of core developer pay and this is not going to be the last time it's not going to be fixed by putting together these threads it's not going to be fixed by you know kind of like publicly shaming the ethereum foundation to to do things and we only really have one side of the story and this is one thing that i've been thinking about last couple of days when i i tried to kind of like frame this and kind of like look at both sides of the argument but it's really hard for me to do that because all that we have access to right the information available to us is basically some of the core developers saying that they feel like they're being underpaid and that uh you know for the work that they do it's really stressful blah blah all that sort of stuff which is totally understandable

but we don't have the other side we don't know how much they're getting paid we don't know what what kind of vesting schedules they have um you know with incentives that they're getting we don't know that what they're saying is the whole truth right and i'm not saying that these people are lying but without them telling us exactly what they're getting paid all we can do is believe them on their word and i'm not saying that as i said i'm not saying that they're lying but i don't like having debates with people about things with only having one side of the story that you wouldn't go into a courtroom and only allow one party to basically defend themselves or basically give their side of the story and then don't listen to the other party that's not how it works and obviously this is different to a

courtroom but you know in just in a debate in general you don't hear just one side of it you want both sides of it so i think not having all the information available to us is a big hindrance to this and i think that the these these kind of like threads that peter and other people put out i don't actually think they're very productive because in my mind nothing changes this is so what happens when you put a thread out like this is that you basically defer to the court of public opinion and that's never a good court to be in because the public opinion can be swayed you know any which way it's emotional it's fragmented twitter is the worst place to have debates everyone has an opinion on everything without having access to the full kind of like body of information and it just gets us nowhere

what i think the way to affect change is is for peta and other people in the ethereum foundation to bring this up with ethereum foundation leadership now maybe they've done that already good if they have if they haven't then they should because that is the only way to affect change you're not going to be able to publicly shame the ethereum foundation into doing things especially because as i said we don't have the information we could all be saying hey if you're in foundation you should pay people more and in reality they're actually paying people you know a fair rate now is it going to be as much pay as someone working on a top you know working on deferred protocol from day zero or working on another layer 1 from day 0 is potentially going to get given that they get kind of like tokens when

the tokens are worthless you know probably not that's just the way it works at this stage in ethereum's life but for someone like peter who's been around since day zero you know he mentioned that he's not financially independent yet and i kind of think that's crazy because there's no way that he wasn't paid a lot of eth in the early days because of the fact that that eath was worth a lot less back then right so you know i'm not just i'm not trying to pick on peter here i just want to kind of like give a general sense this is how i think about it if you're paid a token as an incentive right on top of your salary saying hey here's a token bonus right for working on our project whether it's a default project a layer one project whatever and it's worth say one

dollar right and the market cap's like 100 million dollars fair enough right you get that you're like wow okay this is cool i'm gonna sell this right this is money that i can kind of like take i can use that blah blah i'm gonna sell this and you're free to do that but then let's say that token goes up to a hundred dollars or a thousand dollars right and you kind of think to yourself holy [ __ ] like why did i sell right and then you start complaining well i mean that's on you as an individual right you were paid these tokens you could have held them you didn't have to sell them because it's on top of your salary right which usually is there's a salary portion and then there's the uh kind of like token portion which is kind of a good stake in whether it be like a

company you know an equity stake or tokens in a protocol but if you sold them too early well that's on you that you know you shouldn't be relying on someone else to quote unquote bail you out of that now i'm not saying that's what peter did i'm not saying that's what other core developers did but i've seen instances of this happen before where people sell way way way too early and then the token price skyrockets because their work is valuable right the work that they're doing has added value to the network and they now regret selling and they want their pay to be bumped up but in in reality there's probably another person that didn't sell and that's why they have been able to earn much more money from that so that's kind of like one example there but kind of going back to the main kind

of like points here from from peter about compensation as i said there's not much i can actually say on this topic given that i don't know what these core developers are paid i don't know if they're over underpaid i don't know what toke investing they have i don't have any of that information so there's no point me speculating on things without that access that information so i'm not even going to try there's already been plenty of people talking about this um the one thing i will say about core dev compensation is that it's not just the ethereum foundation that gives kind of like funds to these teams and you recall recently in december of last year the ethereum foundation spun up the client incentive program which basically gave about 13 million dollars worth of each per uh to each court um client team as validators on the uh beacon chain in

order to kind of like uh you know and that's investing over time but in order to kind of align incentives and give these uh these core developer teams a nice big bonus and that's in each so if eth goes three times from here that's now worth 39 million dollars right and obviously as equips growing and growing it worth more and more but if those teams decide to sell their eighth and then eth kind of like goes three x maybe they're going to regret that right i don't know you know who knows who knows how that's gonna play out there but there's that there's things like what trent van epps is setting up right now the protocol guild which is working to kind of like fund core developers there's other initiatives out there i mean obviously i did the nft drop recently where i donated uh 20 about

28th to core developers well myself and kita did that two core developers on opengrains which was already an active grant that had uh i think about 900 and something ethernet from from one person there i think his name is james fickle so there's that there's a bunch of other initiatives the ef gives a lot of grants out you know all that sort of stuff and as i've said before the core developer teams you know a lot of them do things rather other than build core developer clients like for example i mentioned um eddie from sigma prime before i was talking to him and they do things like audits right they do security audits that's a very nice kind of like a revenue stream for them because as i said before auditors are in very very short term supply and they're able to capitalize on that because they really

understand code there's other ways to do things like nethermind is building stuff with starkware all these sorts of stuff right so there's there's there's money there now in saying that i don't actually think that money is the whole story uh at all and i think that for someone like peter who's been around for a very long time i think what he's feeling is burnout because put yourself into peter's kind of like shoes for a second here you've been working on the ethereum protocol since day zero all the stresses all the anxieties that have come with that you've been through everything the dao shanghai dos attacks uh all the protocol upgrades that you had to kind of like pay attention to you know always in the back of your mind like did i do something wrong did i code something wrong that would lose people money all

that stress imagine having that for since 2014 essentially right um and not look he's probably had breaks here and there on holidays but as far as i know he's never had like a long-term break from quarterback he's just been working all the way through he's obviously very proud of his work and has a lot of pride and that's totally fine um but yeah putting put yourself into those into his shoes it's definitely burnout now there's more money fix that i don't think so like for me personally you know if i was burnt out and someone offered me money to fix it that wouldn't fix anything really i mean maybe it'd make me would allow me to take more time off but i find it hard to imagine that someone like peter in the position that he's in doesn't have the means to take time off and as far as i know the

ethereum foundation has always always encouraged people to do this but i think what peter feels is a is a grand responsibility to the ethereum protocol especially in a time where so much is going on the merge uh you know upgrades are coming faster sharding statelessness there's so much happening with the ethereum core protocol that i think uh you know peter just feels that weight on his shoulders which is totally fine and i totally get that um but again i go back to what i said before i do not think that these threads are are very helpful i think that pushing internally uh you know talking to the right people getting in contact with them and getting people to kind of like rally around you in a more not private manner but like in a more targeted approach is better than just kind of like a shotgun approach

here but that's just my opinion on it now the second thing in peter's thread was that kind of like he focused on on was the complexity of the ethereum protocol now he was talking about how he thinks that the ethereum protocol is becoming you know maybe too complex it's becoming harder to reason about there's a lot of features going into the core protocol um and then he lists through them basically all this kind of like stuff here you can read this thread i'm not going to go through them all um and then he's kind of like last tweet here was i can't say what solution is but my two senses to stop adding features and start calling even at the at the expense of breaking things there are less and less people knowing willing to piece together a broken network and each change pushes more away i actually

disagree with this and i found it was weird that peter would say this um you know obviously he's a lead at the lead at geth the top one of the top court uh core client teams out there has been a cordev forever he's closer to this than i am but from speaking to other people especially people that are close to this sort of stuff i don't feel like people are getting pushed away we have more core developers and researchers than we've ever had the protocol is adding a lot more features but it's being worked on in much more efficient and effective way than it ever has so i don't know where peter's getting this opinion from maybe he feels this way personally but i don't think this is a common sentiment shared among core developers now i could be wrong here but that's my current read on it

now i also don't agree with stop adding features and i don't agree with the ethereum network getting more complex i think the ethereum network is actually going to get less complex over time and that's because it's taking the modular approach rather than the monolithic approach you know things like not doing execution sharing and only doing data sharding is simplifying one of the core protocol upgrades doing um you know proof of stake ffg instead of casper cbc for the proof of stake instruction is simplifying things that's not a subjective thing that is an objective thing that has happened dank sharding is simplifying things again you know i don't feel like the ethereum protocol is is getting more complex from that that kind of view there but in saying that you can't have what ethereum offers your mod ethereum wants to do without inevitably adding more

complexity to it if you want a theorem to be just like bitcoin with smart contracts and that's it well i mean we had that and we saw all the bottlenecks that the scalability bottlenecks the gas fee is going up you know really really high the sustainability bottleneck to the chain getting too big and we need to do statelessness and stuff like that like complexity is not necessarily a bad thing but i think the way to think about complexity is that okay does adding this feature to the network improve the network by 100x for example does it improve uh maybe not even 100x does it improve the network by 10 to 100x is it worth the added complexity and i think that pretty much everything that's been added to ethereum protocol at this stage hasn't improved it by that much i actually think that erp 1559 is a

100x improvement because we stopped leaking value like the value of eighth needs to go up in order to secure the network as secure as possible and a lot of other downstream effects from there but we stopped leaking value from that and not only did we we kind of like stopped leaking value but we made the network bit better to use uh you know by kind of like um making transaction fees smoother and all that sorts of stuff there proof of stake i actually think that's a hundred times improvement on proof of work that enables sharding uh which is you know the data sharing which is a hundred thousand x improvement for layer twos same with things like erp 4844 which is the blob carrying transactions all this sort of stuff in my mind is a massive improvement and we should pursue it now peter can disagree with me he's you

know he's the one who chose this sort of stuff he knows more than i do about it but i don't think this is the common belief and sentiment shared by all the core developers and researchers and you can actually see some of them uh are kind of like saying that here like dan craig feist says you know complexity is like that and this dan crowd is the person who came up with dang sharding by the way um but he's you know he said complexity is like that ideally you want to have none but then you usually also can't create anything so you of course want to minimize the complexity while still creating a system that is useful creating complexity in isolation is definitely bad but are we doing that i don't think we're doing that right we're not just creating complexity for the sake of it we're creating complexity to

add more complex features to improve the network by you know 100x if not more um and there's a bunch of varied comments here from core developers and researchers past and and new which is you know i always like seeing this and seeing stuff like that but you know i didn't really agree with with peter's framing here and as i said before i think that he's definitely uh you know he's suffering burnout i don't think that that i don't think that's a negative thing either i think that everyone needs to take care of their mental health before they can actually do their best work and at the end of the day you know peter has you know he deserves a break more than anyone so you know maybe he doesn't want to take a break until after the merge that's totally fine as well again he has

responsibilities and he feels responsible too so in my opinion like if he once the merge is done he should definitely just take an extended break just to you know just to kind of like stop feeling burnt out i know maybe that you know i don't know what he's feeling and anything like that but it certainly seems like burnout i think other people agree that it certainly seems like he feels a lot of stress and anxiety over this sort of stuff and and i would too but i guess the solution to that is not to keep doing what you're doing the solution is to take a step back take a break and repair your mental health there but anyway i've talked about that this thread long enough that's just kind of like my general thoughts on this sort of stuff i just want to be clear that

i don't think threads like this are helpful i don't think they're going to affect change i think what affects change is having targeted feedback to the people who actually are in a position to make the changes um rather than doing a court of public opinion because in my mind that just never works honestly it really doesn't work it leads to so many opinions it leads to so much kind of like i guess like bad stuff happening and being said i mean the bitcoin maximalist absolutely jumped on this thread they loved it like oh look at this you know a core ethereum developer is saying that the theorem protocol's too complex and we should simplify it this is what we've been saying for years while totally ignoring the fact that this isn't a consensus view this is just one person's view of course they're going to latch on to i i just it was

just annoying to read that again um but peter's entitled to his opinion as i said he's much closer to core development research than i am but my read just from kind of like talking to other other core developers and researchers just from kind of like seeing other comments i just don't think everyone feels the same way as peter and that's good it's good that we have different opinions here but hopefully we can get to a consensus hopefully we can actually you know if the core developers are actually being underpaid severely we you know get them more money right and at the end of the day a salary is never going to get them uh what you know to the point where they need to be give them vested eat which is the ethereum foundation did with the client incentive program do more of that um you know the

protocol guild that trend is working on is going to do stuff like that that's what we need at the end of the day we don't need uh kind of like people saying oh you know we need to have like a salary of 500k for the quarter developers honestly guys like yes that salary sounds like a lot but that is not going to move the needle like a vested eath thing would especially as earth goes up in price especially if kind of like we had it from the early days which i'm pretty sure the theme foundation does pay out eight bonuses as eighth at any given time so people held that you know it'd be really nice but i just found it very surprising that peter said he is not financially independent from um you know yet from ethereum even though he's been there from day zero i

don't know the details of that but i did find that quite surprising because i came in a lot later to this kind of like ecosystem in 2017 uh and you know and i got to the point where i am financially independent uh by kind of like investing in eth and kind of like doing some other stuff as well so i just found that surprising but again everyone's situation is is always different as always in you know the individual situation to consider here maybe peter couldn't hold on to that maybe he really needed to sell it at the time that he got it uh in order to kind of like pay for expenses and and that's totally fine like the early days of ethereum is very different to what it is today so as i said without having all the details i can't really give much

more of an opinion than that but i hope that clears it up for you guys and kind of like gives my view on it and definitely read all the other kind of like views in it you know i've seen a lot of them on twitter take it all in form your own opinion about it don't just kind of like film an opinion based on one thing that you read try and kind of get multiple views i think that's always the best way to go about doing things all right so i'm gonna power through these i've got eight minutes left i'm gonna power through the rest of these updates here so domothy a loyal disciple of the delegate as i said here has put together an absolutely amazing post on reddit called stuff our ethereum should know proof of stake edition now this is quite a lengthy post yeah i highly

recommend giving this a read but this is basically debunking all the stuff that i've talked about before uh and all the common misconceptions got to do with proof of stake the merge eth2 generally all that sort of stuff stuff like the merge reducing gas fees you know estate becoming unlockable at the merge all that sort of stuff and going into a lot of detail too so just wanted to highlight this highly highly recommend checking it out and giving it a read i'll link it in the youtube description below all right so we had another tweet from paulina during the week comparing transaction fees for amm swaps between different uh kind of like networks be it layer 2 networks or layer 1 networks side chains all that sort of stuff you can see the breakdown here and everything like that but you know and kind of polynomial has a thread here

about this talking about the caveats and stuff and everything and then in the comments there's a bunch of different kind of things to read just wanted to hide that thread for there but what i wanted to kind of like say here is that when looking at this sort of stuff and just looking at the vanilla transaction fees you show this to someone and a total noob right to crypto what are they going to tell you they're going to say hey ronan looks the cheapest because ronin fees are zero but then you're missing all the other contexts now for those of you who don't know ronin is the axiom infinity side chain it's not anywhere near as decentralized as ethereum i don't even know if it's decentralized i'm pretty sure there's still centralized controls in place for it um and you know obviously kind of like things like state bloating stuff

isn't considered and i think the network recently had like a lot of issues staying online and stuff like that so just looking at transaction fees in a vacuum is not the way to evaluate these sorts of networks um because you don't you don't have all the other stuff that goes into it that are stuff that i've talked about before but i just want to kind of like highlight that there but definitely give paulina's thread here a read it is a really great one all right so we have a really cool resource about uh for erp 4844 here called eip4844.com which is codenamed proto dank sharding which is shard blob transactions i've spoken about a lot recently now this has guess all the information you need about this eip links to basically um more information about it tweets all that sort of stuff definitely go uh kind

of kind of go check this out and the reason why everyone's excited about this eip is that it will vastly reduce transaction fees for layer 2 and as i said this is tentatively scheduled for the shanghai update which is coming after the merge so definitely go check out this for more information on that and also check out vitalik's own uh technical faq on erp 4844 here it's quite lengthy so if you this basically will give you everything you want to know about 4844 that's for sure and it does get into the weeds or the technical weeds as well so definitely go check that out if you haven't already all right so uh friendly reminder the git coin grant around 13 matching round is still live if you haven't donated yet be sure to do so so it's after 10 days of the matching round being live there's

been over 400 thousand dollars of contributions from the community um with over three million dollars in matching funds now this round has been i think smaller than the last round given the state of the market given the state of the ecosystem right now it's much quieter so i kind of like expected this but yeah if you haven't donated yet be sure to do so thank you to everyone who's donated to both the delegate and ether really really appreciate that uh and yeah definitely go check this out i'll link it in the youtube description for you to donate as well all right now we have something that i missed i think a couple of weeks ago and defy saver sent to me this is an update from them so they introduced something on march 8th called their completely new and modular automated strategies so their first new strategy automates debt

payback with assets in m stable yearn or arary capital for make it down city crp owners in market crashes now you can read more about this here it'll be linked in the youtube description uh but yeah d5 saver i mean is pretty awesome they've been around for quite a while now basically the logic is uh that they want to automate your d5 kind of like activities especially things like saving your position from liquidation and stuff like that and as i said they've been around for a while and i should disclose that they've been a sponsor of ether before um but as you guys know daily wear doesn't take sponsors so they haven't been a sponsor of daily way uh but yeah i just wanted to kind of like highlight this definitely go check out check out this and check out d face saver uh you know if you do have open

positions on you know any of these kind of like apps here make a compound a unisop m stable urine stuff like that uh they definitely provide a lot of really really cool automation tools for you to kind of play around with here all right so finally there is a new job at the ethereum foundation uh that i've been uh asked to kind of like recommend to you guys on on the refuel now this is a test engineer job now the reason why i was asked to recommend this is because of what happened with the kiln test net merge and how we need more testing done on kind of like the ethereum called protocol side so if that sounds like something you want to do and then you want to be involved and you want to help with and it is don't just think this is

something small guys this is a critical part of the theorem called protocol development but this saying something sounds like something you want to do go click this apply for this job button here um and if you apply for it definitely let me know so i can kind of like you know put your name forward to to the relevant people as well uh but yeah the requirements for this role are listed down here it is definitely a technical role you know you you need to have experience working with the evm experience with both execution and consensus layers of ethereum is also nice to have uh you know inclination to think through failure modes for software proficiency and all the the you know the stuff that that's listed here all that sorts of stuff but don't let that discourage you if you are technical if you have worked on this sort of stuff

before definitely just apply for the job uh and see how you go with that uh i think it'd be a really cool job to to like have and be really rewarding as well because you would be responsible for helping test all the stuff and making sure that we don't have repeats of what happened kind of i guess with the kiln test net where we had a few things that needed more testing done on it and we may have been able to avoid kind of like the bugs that we saw on on the on the kiln test net there but anyway i think on that note this is going to be it for today's episode just a reminder again no refuels in next two days but a refuel on thursday so thank everyone for listening and watching be sure to subscribe to the channel if you

haven't yet give the video a thumbs up subscribe to the newsletter join the discord channel and i'll catch you all on thursday thanks everyone