Ethereum Cat Herders Meeting #18 [2019/08/27]

Transcript

welcome to apparently meeting 18 or the a theorem cat herders I didn't realize we done so many sudden such short time the first topic in the agenda is the EA Devcon workshop I understand from Tim that's that it would be good to get some feedback and so I'll let you guys introduce ourselves and playing baseball [Music] okay this is Rhonda all right and every great also if I can introduce yourself

so I don't think we know I know you guys I know Tim so just a little background then and then we then we could dive in so Ron Resnick I'm the executive director I was I've been on this role for about a little over a year and a half like I come from not the blockchain space I'm technology guide hard core and so I was at Intel for 12 years doing all kinds of wireless technologies mobile wireless with extensive activity and telecommunications Wi-Fi 4G 5g and said but as type of that I ended up running these organizations have been deeply

involved in standards or probably 15 years so I think that's why they recruited me so anyway that's me and then we have Paul DiMarzio on the line Paul if you'd like to introduce yourself sure thanks Ron hi everybody so I'm Paul I'm just about finishing up my first month at the EEA prior to coming here I was at digital asset for you know close to two years doing all of their all of their writing and all of the the technical work with the developers to externalise their language demo and before that many many many years in IBM in a variety of roles I was a coder back in the day

that's what I studied in school but I'm kind of movement project management and and other kinds of constantly moving around and what I do and here at the EEA I'm gonna be responsible for interfacing with you guys and all the etherium stakeholders into into what we're doing at the EEA you know how we express the value of that and keep everybody interested all right so two options if there's not a lot of guys online do you want to introduce yourself where I can dive in I'll leave it up to you Brett yeah I mean the cat herb has been around

now since the beginning of the year really basically just community of people that have been interested in trying to push the therian forward we've got a couple of dollars through our creditors a couple of guys of just project managers a couple of dolls are just community members that wanted to get a little bit more involved it's a real broad spectrum of people but I guess more the great things about aetherium is that everyone can help somewhere got it and who are you with Brett myself at the moment I'm working for a consultancy in Perth Australia

and I'm helping out the Darren cat herders nameless baritone got it right keeps us all in line I'm Brant Alsop I'm with canonize or the consensus-building startup I'm new here at camp and spretz teaching me how to take notes for systems and SATs or trying to figure all that out I'm trying to figure all that out yeah I know I've been looking after the notes for

I'll call their meetings and the two I'm helping out with idiom cat herders in various ins and my name is you go I'm based in Barcelona has been working at the blockchain development studio for the last few months and just over a month ago I okay great and I know Jim okay so I won't take a lot of your time but I just to share with you why we wanted to have this call and and how it started so and how it got initially last

year when I started I went to death countenance I've been to one so and I submitted some proposals but we didn't get accepted so I called up aya and she sent me to see Alan and my question was okay we if I would like to to submit a proposal to do the following it's it seems that we have if we can put together something and when I'm sharing through the board of directors of the EA is completely supportive up we'd like to build a court a closer relationship and engagements with amongst the following the ethereum community the enterprise companies who purchase solutions from

syrian developers and ultimately the work we do would be accepted and the positive manner by consumers but the the intent of having this call and the open forum is that how do we move forward and what actions can we taste so that all the work that we're doing the EA is beneficial benefits to all Bri constituents meaning the 13 community and and the members of our org the etherium at which means the ethereum foundation what you guys are doing a cat herders and then work in inviting the etherion magicians as well so they approved so I wrote something up with

with help from the from elf Elia and a couple others and and so we've we're approved to have an open forum and the open forum would be co-hosted it would be by the PA with co-hosted ideally with the cat herders representatives and the theory magicians and the foundation but it would be more of an open forum where all the folks in the audience communicate and we have an agenda and so I'll just share with you it's it's an open forum and and I I took some notes and I'd be happy to share some somethings with you but we the purpose is to encourage harmony and better

communications to suits to better serve at the end of the day the etherion main net because what we started out in the EA was work on as you know in private commissions networks but there's definitely obviously we have to move toward the main net so we submitted a proposal in the EA as approved this hasn't been announced yet but we're launching a working group on the etherion main and we're actually talking to folks who might be chair sharing that again to build this relationship and engagement with you if they're in community that's a better serve that may not so this call with you guys is to first of all find out does that sound good

are you you know love to have I hope you guys are you know willing to participate in this open forum it's an hour and a half and and I don't know if you steam the what's published but if you haven't I can send out the summary of what it is but but real fast I should just do this ten minutes introductions and to which just shares the objectives what I just share with you and then just then we'll share with you our roadmap and talk about how we can collaborate and and this move very fast on the roadmap

with the purpose of getting input from the ethereum community and all the the technology guys there on what they think is good or bad and what what they recommend and how we build better communications to leverage the community that they feel it's beneficial and there's build better trust amongst all the folks or the participants in the ecosystem that's it for me on Rafi what you guys think the statutory size that's fantastic I mean the I was first announced a couple years back what I think the majority of the etherium

community felt was a very positive thing for the ecosystem and whilst you guys have been working on majority of private networks and so on all right just recently that you guys were looking to move back into I guess um did you say harmonizing what the main needs a little bit more and uh I mean ultimately that's that's exactly I think it's brilliant I think it's brilliant quite honestly and in terms of the collaboration and communication between what the EEA is doing and what the community is doing and what the core devs are doing certainly the format from

a practical perspective you guys on the very technical - so the simplest that I [Music] guess the simplest idea from UM from our mind is obviously the participation within there a theorem called Dave calls because if anything that's probably the meat in the sandwich when it comes to etherium and the ability to have persons like yourselves working on complex problems on your side obviously benefits enormously on the etherion magnet I'm

sorry so at this event I don't know I assume met all of your there's me folks there how do we move this forward where we might have one or two people I I'm not sure how we'll put this all together and I've asked Paul to take the lead from our side so it's really the thinking out loud how how we make it work but I assume there's going to be a few folks from representative of each of these you know the groups on the front to help moderate and and encourage the attendees to participate sighs I think

so first ask I assume you guys would like to participate and then if that's the case how do we how do we move it forward and you guys can talk more about it offline and then without us being at all how do we move it forward to create awareness with within the Cure cat herder community where we and Paul can help you with sending the messages of what we're doing to invite folks to from the cat herders who or whoever used you can encourage to come at DEFCON for that session if they believe it's important and then who who who's who the point P Paul the folks that Paul and I can

engage with us to be who we communicate with to disseminate information and it would be I feel like sitting at let's say if there's a an area where the moderators are who would be and moderating representing the cat Rivers yeah and just for context I'd prior to this called run and I had had a chat then I had already asked to do this because he's obviously sort of founded the catheters and he agreed to it but yeah if there's anyone else on this call who will be at DEFCON and and it might be simpler to just like ping me

on Giller and Ron and Paul I can I can follow up over email because I know there's a couple other people you want to take you from petitions and whatnot so if if you'll be in DEFCON and you're interested to be part of this happy to help coordinate that absolutely and in terms of getting engagement with the community I mean what we could obviously starts the if you lock the promotion beforehand by our Twitter channel and the newsletter that preacher rots and other other documentation perhaps even

put about a medium post around the collaboration of the EEA with the various parts of it they're in community I guess making a larger more a broader community especially with them if they're promised space well we'd love to do it and Paul would be the primary contact for working with you Brett on that and and Paul sir heads up our marketing so he's the right guy and one other area I mean so I'm not sure it's pretty obvious I'm not a blockchain expert coder but I understand of doubling and then I actually worked in entertainment game software business so

it's more product marketing on that side of it so here's what here's where I am could be jaded or not jaded I am a I'm used to in my world that I come from where if we were building a Nintendo game it has to go through the if we have to submit until we had you know a gold approval we had to submit it to Nintendo for them to review it and it was not easy but it had that they wouldn't put anything out that would break so I'm sort of a I'm a big believer in how we can try to deliver interoperability on a level playing field so everybody has an equal shot of

success so so bottom line when I'm sharing that I have a lot of experience on processes and how you how you how you develop your specifications and stuff like that I'm not the person to look at the code and that's why we have other folks of course in the EA you know our members who can do that as well as we're actually looking for a technical director we have an open rec if you want when your newsletter we could happy to send that to you because it's a really interesting role for the yeah absolutely happy to promote that you can definitely share it with our community and people

would be intrinsic and you know yeah and what one other thing that Paul is just set up which is great Paul do you want to share with in what you're doing on the public community so we can get inputs um yeah sure so you know one of the outcomes of this meeting that we're gonna have a Def Con is I want to understand the best ways of keeping in touch and collaborating and just as a starter you know we I've used slack a lot in my prior jobs and I know that a lot of the community does so I did set up a public slot with a private channel force for actually setting up this def

con session you know but I'm hoping that you know we'll get people to join this this work space and you know set up their own channels and have other discussion areas but there may be something different you know maybe it's good or maybe there are other other ways other places people like to hang out and I need to understand you know what those places are so that I can engage there well II CH animals you need 'i'm community we prefer bit we have different guitars for different activities so probability can come a bit kitten for each action and that could be one of what I mean you know me Kate I don't know the plants and everything that they would want to discuss okay great I'll make a note to just enter

look doc to look into that one and maybe I'll contact you offline and you can help me out with it thank you okay I know you have other topics so I think we've covered this and then the only next step is I'd like to do if you guys are okay with this and we'll talk to Lane is to do some prep work and and Paul will help facilitate that from our side so we we have a good session and we we do a good job so that there's recognition and trust and the fact that we're trying to support and be a benefit to all of all the participants so

there's nothing else we can sign off shame I know you guys have an agenda inbred just I'm just thinking out here but maybe something that would be interesting to start the conversation with the whole community would be not just to get to know what's what the road map is but also maybe for you know the developers and the community as a whole to get to understand you know what kind of challenges enterprises face when they think of ending something else in a

minute so what are the specific use cases that you know up until now have not really been thought of or have not been in the spotlight in terms of the community having a discussion around them I think that would be a really interesting way to start the conversation but but again I'm just speaking about that's great feedback I think it's a great yeah well actually I took we took notes that will that'll be one of the topics well we'll put in the telling make sense I so will cue that up for the open forum and just for future so what we could arrange if you guys are

interested and one of your calls we can invite some of the folks from the from the enterprise community who are working on this that normally wouldn't participate and you can help us figure out who those are attainment but and you can invite them if you want and and have even dialogues amongst your in your groups so bottom line is think about all the things you'd like to do and we're happy to work with you and and and make some get things to happen yeah I'll listen to any and all proposals that's fantastic that okay yeah see it is very exciting opportunity I think it's gonna

be great to have this workshop I've got that I'm not gonna be in Def Con to be honest but I'm gonna try and do as much as I can to help you to make sure that it's a success which to be honest I think there's a lot of community love for the EEA you might not know it but certainly talking amongst peers and so on there's a great fondness for what you guys are doing so I think it'll be well supported great okay thank you again Bret the question right yeah yeah you're talking about a forum so my understanding is there's gonna be EA the EEA Def Con workshop and then you're gonna open a communication channel that

sounds like the most likely candidate now is on bidder is that in total what we're talking about or when you say forum or you're talking about some in addition to those two things no actually we should call it an open forum and by the way and we want to promote it as a hosted work a hosted open forum hosted by EE a cat herders a theory magicians it wanted love level this out is not just it's the egg they just asked me to write a I called them beside I was stuck I didn't I didn't want to submit these proposals and keep getting rejected because I don't understand what might make sense so this is so this is an open you guys who ever could have proposed it

would have been fine so let's assume it's a an open forum hosted by those forking for parties or groups and that's how we'll manage it now I'm gonna look for someone to help us you know to moderate it and make sure that that's how it comes across sounds good thanks okay pager cannot cannot leave the task with you to try and set up a gator channel for this discussion knots out of the meeting and we can advance a poll and run into that Gator channel how I get one but I think it's not that hard

I'll do it and so we that's their email okay guess the default is Gator because a lot of people have github user names and got it oh I have a github username with that work Bridgette yep all right I'll send it to you all right thanks again everyone really appreciate it yeah thank

you thank you bye hey thanks thanks so we'll move on hard fork coordination fidgety have an appetite from lost there in accord F meeting which was on Friday last week while our page is doing that just so new people are aware there was a proposal put forward to change the names of the heart for creme Ford so that all hard folks going forward will following

the naming convention of the locations where the first or the DEF CON stop place so as a result after Istanbul instead of the second Istanbul fork it will be called Berlin which was where DEF CON zero took place and then we will come up with a block member to be picked

up for the test net this may affect our main it had folk it may not be or not to the fourth but we want to be safer than sorry so we'll be just going by the flow from onward all core devs meeting will be on 1400 UTC that was our previous decided time we may be change on request off like if some people come up strongly saying that no rotation was really good and we should continue that then we may discuss this further in all chord F and continue with that but since so far we have seen that it's very less people showing up because of the rotation there is a lot of confusion so you continue

with the previous time I think that's a good idea EW 1884 needs further discussion that we may be supporting there could be a discussion for a monetary magician that would be going on there and there were a couple of suggestions one was to you know shadow for con drops time instead of going for the direct coding hard coding on Testaments so that was one and second was the migration of Rob's turn my vision from Robson actually to come up with a new test net network because developers believe that Rob Stein has

certain limitations and that may not be good to carry forward so in future we may come up with a new test net network and the suggestion was to come up with Berlin maybe because is going to be one of the maybe one of the differentiator and I know they were looking at holding the meeting on a weekly basis to determine that block number is the next meeting gonna be this Friday or is it in two weeks time it's in two weeks time okay

and and with regards to parodies work was it going to be discussion in the back end to choose the block number or where they're going to be waiting until two weeks to choose that block number thank you anything else from odd for coordination of dates should we should we write some blog post or some piece of communication explaining the a piece that are going to be included in the next heart Fork yeah I think Hudson mentioned that so

for sure this will happen and it probably be worth pinging had sent to make sure we don't duplicate work if someone's already on it but yes there was some like 1884 for example has some impact on current country so we definitely want to have clear communication on on the fact that it's included in the specific impact that it has absolutely and from the meeting before last before lost all the meeting two Fridays ago Hudson actually push that out to the etherion cat herders and thanks jogging my memory datum to try and push out some communication to the community around 1884 so yeah I will drop a drop another

Hudson indicator confirm what needs to be said if anyone's interested in on that so okay yeah by the way just so we don't duplicate work there is an

assemble tracker I just posted in the chat so that's probably the best thing to reference yeah absolutely it's Banton okay so to be clear instead of listing the a page in the website we should read elect people to the Istanbul tracker right that's easier right absolutely as a central source of truth yeah both that and the EIP is is is also worth linking because you know you know that particular AP and do not instruct Martin

struck is also good to show what is the current status of client absolutely okay and we'll move on to the next agenda item just the updates of the action items for Constantinople post mortem this is I guess taking some time now and it's probably worth looking at maybe if we could put a consider if it is her team to close this out now as we're heading into Istanbul are there any Deitz on the constantinople pass modern

I think English Charlie's who was leaving that right this that's correct probably a chance Charles on our page has been actively involved in that as well as well as William so I'll probably reach out to to Charles see what's going on there and then we may have a discussion feature with William with Charlton and see how it can cause close but remaining number remaining and yeah also there are many other businesses as

well we'll move on to funding accounting in multi-sig Williams not on the call and for chuckling sorry he was gonna be looking at the work that brains had done a brain do you have an update on he'd be I don't think he understood that the main issue that I see is the get coin discrepancy and so and so I pointed that out to him and I don't know of any other discrepancies other than that and so but anyway I haven't heard back from him since since I updated him on that so so in in so I'm still a little bit confused

um I guess I need to I'll I'm gonna try and reach out to Kevin oh whoa key and see if if I can pin down what's going on with that and and if anyone knows of any other discrepancies besides just the get coin discrepancy I'm still trying to get my head it seems like they're I think you guys have been pointing out there's some more than that but I'm having trouble keeping my head around that you know I was I was no where apart from of anything else apart from the get coin discrepancy obviously but they're the two funds in one one accounts which is not ideal and will sort that out once the coin discrepancies resolved first

foremost for me is resolved like a coin discrepancy and if if it is it turns out that it just cannot be resolved the money has disappeared into the ether then we need to draw a line in the sand and say this is what it is yeah yep yes I'll take an action item on that to reach out to at least Kevin a low key and trying and then get more information on that I've gone through and updated eth funding that the project originally set up I'm not aware of anyone having been paid yet again I'll follow up with

Charles and with Hudson I was lying just to try and make those penguins occur also I threw out a question just on one of the cordilla no it's for their into it's issue number 19 in the funding list and basically pooja wrote the notes for theory into implementers call at the time it was one of those calls where the get coin got missed and so I'm basically asking if it's okay for the MCAT errors to cover I

Tom because she did put in several hours to get these notes across the line if anyone I'll put the post in to get her again if we could please have a seconder to my request and then we can approve her payments as well yeah we're also having I submitted a Paul request for the ether 2.0 notes there's the last ether to natto meeting which Jim my partner Jim did the notes for and we did the one before that and I did the pole request for the one for that and I haven't checked recently but I don't think that poor request has been

accepted but anyway I need to look into that see if I can move that along if you can if you can drop me along just with the pull request number to Danny and my charts it's perfect okay I'll look into that another action item moving on to help get organized the pre Def Con magicians council tenants yeah so I just wanted to share this to this group because there is gonna be sort of an eighth magicians event happening before Def Con it seems like it's shaping up to be on the monday and

there's an eat magicians thread that i linked on the agenda so if anyone will be in japan and and wants to help organize this i think it's kind of a high value i think the work on so i just wanted to bring it to the attention of this group absolutely and I agree with you Tom I think more and more as when we run in the space these magicians are becoming a very important part of the cog in the wheel of ethereum so I see our involvement with the earth magicians as being critical to the success of ethereum in general so yeah again I think probably based - and published

autos Prasad indicator I know we wanted to try and speak as many people here on the call but there'll be a few people that I think would be interested in and getting involved with the net and again do we want to keep it within the cat herders or do we want to reach out to the community to assist in any way or so I think there are already some people kind of click starting this effort and so I think maybe the cat herders or the community might might be helpful to help but I just wanted to like if anyone of us will be in Def Con and has the bandwidth I think he can be a good thing first personally I I don't so I yeah so again if anyone feels like

they can contribute for this I think it's good yeah yeah I'm gonna be there I might have some bandwidth that just FYI great are you aware of like the thread on each magician I know not yet okay so I'll just post it in the chat right now and rating okay thank you yeah um times one of the bulbs do that just go through this rant or do they reach out to yourself - oh just go through the thread yeah yeah that's correct as far as coordinating it this year

sorry is Boris coordinating I don't know it seems like it's mostly Jamie and a couple other people who have stepped in thanks Lance okay that's fantastic Jack Jamie's obviously also and I'll get her Channel which means if anyone would reach out directly Jane you can do so okay thank you - Nick starts on any other business on arrays just one autumn where I'm keen to get everyone's approval just to go out and promote

note-taking for within the etherium cat herders as well we've lost - no takers and we'd like to bolster the numbers a little obviously one of the first places I'll probably reach out to is those you've written notes previously in the get queen repositories and then from there put it out to the broader community but if everyone's okay with that suggestion I'll probably up to do that next week yeah I've been trying to follow because there seems to be that still this parallel effort on get er or get coin I mean and if

someone posts a bounty for that then it seems there's always at least two usually three four sometimes five people that that I that I don't know of being in cat herders that are applying for doing that but anyway just FYI absolutely absolutely so should we just be using it quite then yeah I'm wondering if we should just use get push a get coin yeah and collaborate and work and the problem with get coin though is it's managed by what's this name that manages it and he has such little bandwidth and it's not a high priority for him so things tend to fall tiny right yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

so maybe Danny Ron's working with get coin to find it there him to call notes for calls I guess one of the issues that he has is that when he puts it out in to get coin anyone could have perfect in January and whoever's first gets offered the opportunity to write the notes but the quality of the notes very in extreme really good notes to pretty poor notes and and there's no real recourse which is why I guess working with Danny at the moment we're trying to improve the note-taking process within the theorem to have the selector process yeah who

gets selected process they said we don't have the two overlapping processes exactly exactly so what what what I'm being at the moment for everyone's benefits in terms of trying to keep it transparent we're putting an issue forward through every agenda basically previously the issue was posted by Danny and then I get coin if it was raised or funding was raised and I would tell Denny that science has been around the notes and then he would allocate the person by a good point to the notes what I'm doing at the moment is telling Danny

in advance because he's not currently actually putting the notes issue up I'm so I'm raising the know its issue and saying Danny can you please create the get coin Grande he's been extremely running off his feets and he hasn't done it yet yeah I wonder there's one of us oh hey get get the permission ball to take over that job so he saw someone of us can do it instead of waiting for him to find time which he never does to do it absolutely they're great and I guess that's a discussion we need to have with Denny just to make sure what obviously we've got to ensure that there's some degree of separation between who's giving the

money out and and who's allocating the people to the jobs because we don't know they look like we're just taking money for the sake of taking money to be honest right right but here I'll have a word with with Denny and see see what's happening there okay in terms of the other the other nights for the core Dave in aetherium I call or Theran one as it is perhaps referred to at the moment and the the currents I can't hurt her calls those are funded through the cat herders

obviously until we run out of money when we figure out how much money we've got after they get coin discrepancy but for the time being we're seeing that they're funded by the theorem carriers and if we start running out of money we'll we'll start raising some more money to take notes okay and that is a case of just making sure that's another three holders of the multi-sig to attend collude to pay then I'll take us great anything else from any other business for my information who are the three cat

herder fund multi-stakeholders its Lane Hudson and Charles okay great thanks from this meeting would want to be a part of that we are creating today for a collaboration and minute collaboration yeah I want to be on it yeah yeah me too I think it's a full house pager so we are going to make it public I believe that's what ron was trying to say here that it should be public and anyone nobody can join that recruit people to

be in it yeah is that for the the forum going forward or in terms of planning the workshop I think initially that we talked to Ron and Paul and I guess bounce ideas no thread going with Ron at Paul about planning the workshop and also if if you want to be out of there and like you're in DEFCON you're at DEFCON didn't want to participate just like me and I'll add you in in that conversation yeah add me definitely cuz I'll be there okay great not already I and Tim I know I won't be a Def Con

but if there's any way I can help being happy to be included cool I'll keep you updated okay and then review any outstanding action items from the law school I'll just quickly jump onto the nuns from the last call okay we'll go one action on him want him to look into

brain spottings which I'm poaching bring his brains point down he's still looking into it we haven't heard anything unfortunate Williams not on the course we'll leave that action autumn - for the time being okay well I think that's it guys now you said William yeah I'm a little bit confused William who is what was the action item with William again I'm a little bit unclear on that so William was to engage with yourself just to look up William that was okay yeah he was at the dinner with us out there right and he was the one offering to help it and

then that's the one I've been talking about and what William wasn't in Berlin oh oh really okay yeah I'm getting confused names then so so William is just a different person than the one and he volunteered to help with this stuff in it okay okay and what's Williams last name twelve spell that for me hey CHW thank you wav sorry s CH w AP schwa are just a CH w AV o Schwab okay okay great thanks for that and is there a the salmon theater idea is in the

a channel okay okay okay that helps thanks function anything else cause well all quarks thank you very much Greg cat hair just calling great introduction Tim thanks for introducing the e I think it's just on look with these guys and promote what they're doing in the community yeah and yes thanks for thanks for moderating to call appreciate it yeah thanks Adam speaks in C yeah thanks yeah bye