Ethereum Cat Herders Meeting #13 [2019/06/11]

Transcript

um sir up-tempo pal Hudson did have a discussion with the cord apes and imagined two weeks ago that prog pal unfortunately it's gonna probably mean some sort of delay due to the fact that they're still trying to finalize the contract due to the leg dropping out of the hardware Auditor and so as a result until that contract is finalized the people who are willing to stand up for cash to fund it weren't gonna do so so I don't know where it's

gone from there I expect we'll probably hear something in the core Dave's call on the 21st before we get to our next meeting I think that that's one on that at the moment you don't know any more Tim Dean no I don't I guess the only things I think extremely unlikely that punk rock pals in this town ball at this point um but that's just based on my reading give the tea leaves and nothing else oh it's absolutely extremely I'm okay especially because I've been sort of working and the time it takes to order just looking at life for it to meet um

the next item the hard post-coordination up that again it the core Dave's are currently going through all the embarrassing are peas that are being proposed certainly the last meeting must have felt very frustrating for a lot of the core Dave's unfortunately a lot of the champions for the Yaquis weren't on the call so I was really difficult to negotiate the validity of the ERP people gave their views notes were taken but no decisions were made so I know there was a lot of discussion in the core games get our Channel afterwards but as it

currently stands apart from the debts that are in in place not in our peace have officially been approved and move forward I guess I I wonder if there's something the cat Raiders could do to help make this process better so on one hand I feel like it's kind of been a mess and a lot of the core devs and editors are spending sort of their valuable time trying to unmess most of this so maybe the cat herders could be helpful in a way I guess the counter-argument to that is I'm not sure adding like another middle man or middle group in that process will help but to

me it just feels like one of the most I guess disorganized or chaotic parts of the process right now and not based on like anyone's work but just because there's never been so many suggestions and it's clearly like overwhelming the the infrastructure we have to deal with eats right I feel like our workflow worked when you get five ten each to pros then you narrow it down to three to five or something like that yeah yeah yeah approach but yeah in your opinion what would be the main issues of today so there's a few things one is just that

like it wasn't clear until the eep submission deadline what the expectation was so how how fully fleshed-out should the eaves be and how many were actually submitted so we kind of went from like more or less zero I don't know no say like more or less ten they're like thirty on the last day and and with they're all a different stage of discussion so some of them are literally placeholders or not more than that and some of them are like fully fleshed out things with like pronto being an example that has a running test net right so I think that's one issue like it's not clear what was expected by that they and and it seemed like there was this cutoff date so everyone just push

stuff in I think the second issue is just like the overhead it takes to technically discuss knees so there's been an initiative to have a mas on the dinner channel which seems to have work kind of well but yeah just like that like it takes time to wrap your head around these and there's a lot of competing ones so having like the technical discussion and I think the third issue and this is kind of speaking it's just like a client implementer is that we're supposed to have our implementations complete more or less in one month so like on July 19th and speaking for like Pantheon we have zero eats implemented because zero are our

Marcus executive so if we get 10 that our markup is accepted five days before July 19th obviously that deadline will slip what's that absolutely tell the truth tomorrow I agree with you 100% um the what I found was the last meeting is that they they try to get through all of them and with so many on the table I really do feel that we we need to engage with the champions of each one and break them down into a list of ten so that we can discuss ten in a core dev meeting

and get those over the line and then move on to the next thing and then move on to the next thing and and almost two points where if the champion is not present to defend is EEP then a hard call needs to be made to to drop that April for Istanbul because I decide there's just an incredible number to try and push through in a very short space of time yeah sorry one more thing yes just worth worth highlighting is the biggest like hard fork in the past I don't know like five ish eat in it so if we are going to a case where like we

might have like seven to ten eats what does that look like is that something we want that that's more of a cortez discussion but it seems like we might get a hard fork with twice as many features as all the previous ones yeah okay so for the very first time we have a problem of having to somehow manage a funnel right so and you said many of the peers were at different stages so that that's that that could be very clear criteria of you know deciding which ones should be considered and which ones are not yet you know at that stage yeah yeah

and that's a double-edged sword so some of the less form eats right now where for example the state rent ones were arguably there's like the most technical work behind that's been done it just hasn't been like formatted to an EP to some extent but so so there was this post on eat magicians as I'm trying to pull up around like shorter versus longer hard Forks and and I know from from our team I did something around maybe we should have like a different cut off around around the like first of all when your EOBs gets submitted as like an idea and then when it gets submitted as like a spec and then when

it gets implemented so right now this like concept of an idea and aspect are tied together yeah yeah so that would be yeah so again I think I think we need to create this sort of funnel and to clearly define the stages of each one of the phases of the funnel right so that it's also transferring and everyone knows what what what you know it's to be expected in each one of these stages also um how do you so doing the all that's called do do you discuss a piece on

rolling basis or is it just we discuss all at once when you get to the deadline how does it work so typically the way it would work is that people the champ that each champions would would signal that they want an e discussed in a chord F skal and we would discuss it so that would be like a fairy on a fairly rolling basis and a fairly small number of eeap's what happened last time is just we got to the deadline and there were still 30-ish like heaps that were not accepted or rejected and so we discussed them all because they hadn't been discussed when unfortunately try to discuss them all without any of the

champions being present to discuss them any that would be like TV finishes right so one issue would be how do we classify a piece so that we make sure that we only just discuss those that are sufficiently developed and the second one would be if like maybe reinforcing some sort of rule whereby if the champion is not present or someone representing a champion then it doesn't make sense right to even discuss it what would such a rule make central or

not I'm not sure I understand what you're proposing so in this particular sir yeah what I'm thinking you guys trying to say is basically is trying to say it we need to define if Anita's ready to progress I'm not into Istanbul if it's not then it needs to be put on the back burner because I said there's a couple that are just not ready yet and then the second one you're saying is if a champion is not there on the court

they've called to actually talk to there then that it should not be discussed at all during the cold day of call yeah I guess I would caveat those two things like they seem like good ideas but you probably want that decision to be made on Cortes my team that discussion we probably want to rise with Hudson and bring it to his attention and he can rise it as an issue within the Corps tips yeah at the very least we can post it on the Cornell Skinner and start the conversation there at that so that doesn't think most of the call yeah totally so I was actually asking whether or not that made some sense to you or

not at the end the way I see this is a sort of a creation problem right so too many AP is all at once and so what we want to find its ways for that not to happen again and and and I was saying there's like two different problems one problem is you know whether we have a sufficiently developed speck so that the AP can be implemented and the other is you know how are we supposed to actually have a proper discussion about that if the champion is not it's not in the code which are two different two very different problems yeah yeah and we

should try and address both of those that may they both make sense drop something first internally and also sorry so yeah I'm just in your difficulty someone said we'll have the creation problem and we said that there is also you know having technical discussions that process takes a lot of overhead and then there was also an issue you said about timing which is you know if all of a sudden we seven or a piece for you

know one network upgrade then you know in the clients which are also things to discuss so I'm just throwing ideas here but maybe we should have a discussion on whether a piece can get it too and it worked a bit and maybe say something like it's five and you know first five being the ones that take into account or not or we should set up some sort of process to decide which ones you know I mean and which ones are out and about the technical discussion taking too much

overhead if all of a sudden there's a blonde maybe it takes maybe makes some sense to bring that discussion out of the call and have it like no separate I don't know separate so so that idea that that mostly happens right now so every eeap's has like a discussions do you feel that typically points they eat magicians or something and a lot of the technical discussion happens there there's still some of it happening on the call right like but so far I'd say 90% probably happens outside of the the

core deaf school just three days I think some housing with just said I'm gonna drop a note in the theme carers internal get her I've just stated to see of tacular on - I'm Hudson and just basically say to him we've noticed that's from the last call that there's a staggering amount to be

up he's in fact more EMPs than we've had any heart for giver we also noticed that a lot of the yuppies at various stages of development and finally if not if there's a lot of the champions when president have to call is there anything that there you CH can assist with to try and smooth out the current process because there appears to be a lot of jagged edges that Excel on three maybe it makes sense to have a discussion internally with the controllers and bring the proposal to context for the proposals to go ahead with it yeah well exactly exactly I mean and and I guess

the reason why I'm bringing it to Hudson is he is the current moderator for the chordates call so he's playing both sides of the fence great okay we'll move on to the next one updates on the action items for Constantinople post-mortem I think Charles was going to say through an update in there he hasn't yet I can talk to them unfortunately will you main page are also not available so we'll move on to the next item the open e CH github issues now this is something that I guess has been

overlooked a little bit by the cat herders there are a few issues outstanding and some of them date back a little while others are just issues that I think could probably be closed off pretty quickly and probably worth having a look at this probably with a few more cat herders on the call but I'll put through the link just for all issues that are currently outstanding for those that are interested and increase things like increasing the multi-sig security

for if your own cat herder wallet which is managed by Hudson Lane and Charles the documenting of the last last stream for the core Dave calls currently there's very few people but not on how to do this and if we could documented it could make it perhaps a little bit easier at Toms Wing for example yourself to go and take on the the job of managing the core dead calls and and someone has to do the video recording of that for or at least the last dreaming

of it for the community and then there's quite a few actually put through bar by Hudson [Music] things like figure out the next time and location in person meeting I think that's been settled has a long time so there's not gonna be one for if here I'm one auto so it's just gonna be a sink call it seems yeah I mean for these issues I'm happy to go through them and try and like ping people on old ones to see if they're still relevant and and yeah the verities just like filter through them yeah so hopefully we can

close a couple or you know get them moving again yeah so happy happy to do that absolutely absolutely unless they're there there are a couple of calls that Oh autumns that might even be joined I mean I'm looking at 60 act in 72 Oh actually 68 basically saying that we've not got a theorem cat herder email perhaps going forward all the mutiny equation come from that rather than from Helen I think that's a bright idea it allows anyone to manage that within the cat herder as well I think one

specific person we might not be available so that's an easy one to you to close off and then if to Phase two in commune is call the claims just Pratt but again deals with the whole subject of the etherium to and where we can potentially assist with with that as a project I think at the month the cross regards which is along with my own peer assisting to you to do meeting notes or volunteering to do that but it's probably best that's some of the apparent quatre it is that are interested in getting involved I have a

sit down and maybe formal working group around things ever can do to assist these cars because it we know they do want to do things like at a multi-client test net and it is doesn't mean that they will need some sort of coordination there are various stages and certainly various levels of release some want to test at something or not it's even documenting that process so everyone understands where everyone isn't in terms of being on the same page and then knowing who's going to be ready for the first release of face era here's not and I'm drawing a line in the sand and helping them do

that so I think that's something that certainly we can look at doing and probably again next naanum I'll drop Knights with indicator ask who's interested in maybe set up an organ group meeting for that are you happy to work hard again awesome thank you yeah okay ethical we'll leave that section foyer where it is now moving on to the funding accounting and multi-sig you would have seen that's well I was

looking at the Gator channel what it seemed there's been some discussion just with regards to the funding and the receiving of I guess the additional funding from get coin or whatever it is it coin yeah I think everything was scared out right I don't know cuz it not being processed and pushed through I think so I think that's why I read on ether perfect well that's great if that's happened that's really

exciting so now we have a little bit more money to actually do stuff we just had to find good projects to to award the money to you Loki's piece of work that we are interested in doing maybe we can ask question on Peter but that I would say that that item can be cleared out let's ask just in case yeah thanks won that bet on it they're in development portal that's what Charles saw Khan speak to that website design era any updates on that so no we're waiting on a

document I think Helen was gonna I know so I done the only thing that was sort of urgent was to change the link that I was pointing to the ATM weekly and now it's pointing to oh yeah that's done and so it's clear I just think that it's going to be difficult to to try to you know brainstorm ideas on how the website should look like and what is the main

goal of the website should play so even though it's a few months from now I really hope that maybe Berlin or Def Con we can get all together and and maybe you know take some time to think about that because yeah I think being a catcher Berlin would be would be super yeah I know that Lane said he would be there Charles and suggesting mark prime market but otherwise they were all gonna be going into economy soccer but as this bit of time as any to get

our heads together and sit down and work through some ideas yeah totally just now the next one DEFCON workshop turn come to Berlin to Bergen yeah for Berlin part time week no I won't but I will I will likely go to Osaka yeah so that's kind of what I wanted to share about here basically I guess the motivation is last year I felt like a lot of the talks at Def Con kind of happened behind closed doors so there's like this you

know all these things happening while the talks are happening and and this I think and this year's like are you talking about 1x yeah yeah so that was an example and and I think like people started like working on things like the new syncing protocols things like that and and this year's tracks seem to be more organized around actually having like the core issues of a theorem addressed so there's one around 1x is one around 2.0 etc and based on that I think it could make sense to have like a workshop around theorem catch burners what I had in mind is like workshops are supposed to be two hours so maybe like a quick 15-20 minutes intro of cat herders what we've been doing and so on and then

having most of the workshop being open for people to suggest stuff we could do to discuss how we would do it how they could get involved genrih um yeah so I guess I'm curious a like does anyone think this is like a very bad idea and be like any feedback and see who could potentially attend both I guess in person and it probably could be good to have at least one person remotely if we have like questions or whatever that are that are being done not just from Def Con yep personally I think having a workshop or on the affair cat herders in certain new

around and the management of pushing of the project forward is super super invaluable for the space I'd like to see it take place I have something like Testaverde in terms of goes down sir sir do you know what we were talking about originally I said the first but payments you saw being able a wormhole and I have a general write down and discussion from various players in the pinniped rivers I mean I mean in terms of how the workshop can work I disagree if we could have

some clear goals that we'd like to try and achieve out of the workshop before we go into the workshop and try and see if we can rally up to some support around those action items or goals then then I'll take that became pretty useful yeah I agree I like the idea and especially like the idea of actually turning this thing into some way of getting feedback from the community and trying to understand what's the best way for us to help I think that would be the main going for

that maybe it makes sense to in the months that come maybe maybe the controllers have to engage directly with core devs and you know if champions that said I just and asked them to come and as I said come up with some you know items we want to discuss and and take your putting you didn't get as much feedback as we can so that no I think it's the best cool um so I'm happy to put together like a proposal for a talk

over the next week or so I'll post it in in the catheters channel to get all of your feedback on it and just get a feel for who could be there not and then we can send it in yeah I mean there's a guys you just quick poll oh it's a lane he was there think it'll be there Hudson's gonna be there they're gonna be there I think Charles is going to try and be there I'm gonna try to be there cute are you you're not gonna make it I'm gonna try it I can't I can't say for sure but I would love to soon yeah actually yeah

yeah for me DEFCON is the is the conference there's nothing bigger than their car and I wish I could be there that that to me is just first call Wow okay any other business anything else they any more let's rise okay I'll just I'm nuts but late in the meeting I just nice to see Branson Jim on the coals as well thanks breads and Jim are joining us just as community members wants to

get more involved change you with the the cat herders looking to maybe in the future assist with not taking as a start and and going from there to even helping us me and I pushed some of the pieces of work forward yep sorry thanks for joining us Frank and Jenny thanks for having us yeah cuz you're mine so I'll just quickly do a review of the action items from meeting 12 um action 9.1 Hudson's work with Charles I'm making I postpone order about the profile audits and that post doesn't come out yet and it because

they're still waiting on finalizing the contract action on point for most icky hose to work on separating the funds I believe that still hasn't been done they're having one separate the funds until it at the final funds through so that's done what would you say to that I have a suspect's lining and nuts and and Charles will start working on I said we're getting those funds I'll chase up Charles just to see what's going on there um action autumn 11.1 cat herders Derby the document I created about Peja I haven't done side myself and I don't think anyone has us I'll leave that up

there for now action live point three set up a call with if you're in Div portal snake holes that's for Charles and concomitant action twelve point one that's in two proposed action plan croak my heart foot delay not making Istanbul in all core devs chat so he has obviously raised it in the old core Dave Stratton explained the situation but he did say you would have an update in the next quarter Dave's call so I'll leave that up there for now and then 12.2 we need to look into the discrepancy at the gate point bounty amount I believe that is now resolved so that we can take that

as a completed action item and I think that's it guys if anything anyone's got anything else to add perfect thank you guys yeah thank you thank you but thanks Bradford evening this yeah