ETH2 Staking Community Call #3 - All about Rocket Pool

Transcript

everyone let me go and start the recording record on this computer all right I think we're ready to rock and roll I'm sorry we didn't really give Jake a chance to get his bearing before we we fired it off hey buddy yeah sorry I'd like to welcome everybody to the etherium Staker theorem staking community called number three just to be upfront we call this the etherium staking call because we don't want to only represent reddit.com slash are slash eighths taker we want to represent all of the assyrians takers whether or

not you join us over at reddit.com slash are slash east acre today our community call features dave and jake from rocket pool we have so much interest in rocket so much interest in rocket pool from the east acre community I know Lambeau she and I talk about it every day hey how much are we gonna stake so low how much are we gonna stake on rocket pool then we go back and forth just so many questions surrounding how it's going to work the betas have been awesome we love the product it's so polished we think it's going to just be fantastic but there are just floating questions curiosities where are you guys at now and we're gonna spend maybe about

an hour just talking about those hopefully we'll get a lot of input from the community and if you guys would like to begin by introducing yourself then we'll get started yeah absolutely firstly yeah big thanks to Sookie's and Russia for having you son I'm Dave from rocket pool the regional founder I've started writing the contract 16 believe it or not so yeah it's been it's been a big journey turnout we've obviously got a fair bit of excitement this year with you know tests that's popping up for all the clients and whatnot and we're obviously actively working towards getting so running on a multi ply test that when that's possible but yeah

anyway I'll talk more about later jury hey guys how's it going my name is Jake and I've been with rocker for about two years now the rule and it's most of the stuff I'm doing these things around smart note stacks I bring a lot of programming in card I'm full you guys the actual card that race will be using and to do all the fun stuff all the validation and things like that and yeah thanks having us guys our pleasure thanks for coming out right audios okay so just to be a little bit just to make sure we're all on the same page can you guys give like a you know

like an elevator pitch of what rock a pool is what you're trying to do acts as a matchmaking service between you want to run a node and users that don't want to run a node or they don't have the skillset to basically get one up with money you know keep it secure so what we do we have a smart contract system so if you want to stay some eat and let's say you don't have the 32 it's required you can steak eating rock or with as little as one e you send that to a smart contract the smart contract then basically will break these deposits up in some we call a chunk so chunk is 40 it will then spread these trunks around the node operator network so if you want

to run a node in raqqa for you basically set up our smart nodes that software on a server it will then automatically configure your notice receive these deposits from users who are writing and know themselves and you'll essentially do this thinking for them so yeah it basically gives kind of you know power to people that wanted stake and it has some built in insurance as well we're just saying I'll kind of talk a bit later which I don't think it's free any others taking services kind of had this at the moment but I'll talk more about that later so this is often is yeah kind of a matchmaking service between use want a stake it not running out and those users who do want to run into it and I'm yeah it's there's a lot of moving parts in it but

is pretty much smart contract based almost entirely so do you want anything you're in on the pitch Oh J did we lose Jake oh hey thanks yeah it's breaking up a little bit I just got you that yeah I think probably probably help yes yeah it's but yeah that's the essence of it I want to settie stuff so um yeah if you do want to steak and you don't want to run a

note or you don't have the 33 it's required okay awesome um do you want me to share my screen maybe and we can just show off that UI or do you want to do it yeah I can show my screen so basically our latest update we put out a week ago and this revolves around a smart node GUI so just a graphical user interface so if you want to run it a node in the rock pool network and basically take your only and as well as receive these deposits from users who aren't running to know up until now we tailor kind of a command

line interface which is worked really well we use that in our last beta you could basically spin up a docker stack which base the rockball software it then configured your node to receive these deposits and you can create validators and so forth through the command line but almost like deadlines not for everyone so yeah so this is basically a system that sits on top of that and allows you to install RocketBallz to your local computer or install it to remote computer quite easily so I can just do a quick screen share that I'll just see if this works I haven't done this in zoom before so I'll just see if I can share this all right he's gone yep okay alright so this is basically the

first screen that you'll see when you want to install this software so it's basically just a thin electron and this app will be installed locally you'll be able to install this on Linux Mac and Windows with the first version of this though you won't be a Storyful software directly on to a local computer if it's windows-based like working around an experimental version to get that happening in the near future but if you are on Windows initially you will be able to use this software you better run it locally and you'll bower install RocketBallz two remotes of it so you know like any kind of cloud base AWS or anything like that and you'll be on

manage it from your windows anyway I'll just do it this may break very much is a work in progress yeah so basically this is the first screen you'll see you go to install smart note you then basically get the options to install locally or to remote so so as I saying before you can install this you know a remote service you know if you have say Tim remote servers that you're running nodes on and they're all spread around various cloud providers just for you know some redundancy sake because you don't put all your eggs in one basket you can actually monitor more from this one screen um I'll just do a quick test yeah so ready to go I'd say

okay let me just grab the details for that okay so that you basically just have to put in your details a link to your pen pal so this is basically an encrypted key which allows you to access your server remotely without having to putting credentials so you will that you will need one of those in the future so but that's that's you know that's nitty gritty details and they're quite easy to make so you can actually add the connection install ruffball now or you can just add a connection so if you add a connection it phones into that server to check that you have administrative rights and so forth and there you go so that's they're all demos over there it's just kind of contacting that server

now to make sure everything's ok and then you get a very basic quick overview of that service there so it's average load over the last 15 minutes so you can protect this you know unusual spikes and resources obviously time zone and how long it's been up so you can basically just wanted to monitor quickly from here you have the option to obviously install a pool remotely so this will install on that server and well you can just edit it or delete it whatever so that's basically a very kind of high-level overview of the connections manager screen so this is it's a to this computer so you'll see that up here you can rename any of these instances pretty easily so yeah so you can really just

edit the name of the server any way you want as well and if you want to view the dashboard for this server so I've already installed rockball locally on this computer so if you want to view the dashboard you see that oh whoops I'm I'm just gonna take off a redirect and put in there this is very much a work in progress everything for a second okay I'll just restart that I'll show you there yeah hey there we go so this is the main dashboard that you'll see once you've installed it you basically get an overview of your

current balances on that server you know uptime and I'll give you a full report on you know how things are going on that server there's any warnings or anything basically based around computer resources you know like maybe calls go India you get a very quick notification that they're up here but everything's great at the moment so this is obviously your CPU memory hard drives kind of reports for the last five minutes you can go back 30 minutes you can go back one week and go back three days you know as long as you serve has been up for that long you'd be able to view the details this is kind of staking Network utilizations for each staking period and rock pools and we allow you to stack the long term goal is three months six months or 12 months but when we launch they'll probably be a bit shorter just

because in the system and we don't we don't feel sticky for 12 months if there was a potential early issue early on so that could be changed in the future but yeah so you basically get very quick overview of your service resources and the network's resources you'll be able to view your validators in here that's not quite finished yes how much up into that because it's probably going to break and you can get back to the connections manager's screen here or you can view some more details on your server so if you want to run a remote command on your server securely you can actually do that from that screen as well this is basically the upper topping is your balances on that note so you have your eighth balances your re in your RPO so if you want to say send some of the

efforts on that server to somewhere else you just click that you'll then see your note account and your no contract your note contract is a contract that's created specifically for your no when you register with the rocket for smart contracts so this is used to basically hold our deal and hold somebody which you will deposit to create validators with so your note account is basically there a stored on that actual note not in the contract which rockwall can access so if you want to send some eath from that note account anywhere else you might want to send it to another account might want to send it to another note operator you can actually do that from here so all you need to do is just simply how much you want to send an address and yeah and then you basically

just confirm that and it gets in so yeah and that basically gives you a transaction they can be on at the skin so that that's essentially if you aren't running your remote so obviously it's gonna be very hard well if you're not using this would be very hard to send balances which are located on that node somewhere else without having to actually log in there but you can do that all remotely from here so that should actually solve a lot of headaches for a lot of people there's a few other screens I'll just quickly go over because we want to spend too long in this because I had some other questions you guys want to ask but yeah so basically with the RocketBallz service here there's a whole bunch of other screens which you will see during certain stages of the installation so

let me just reload that so I think you should see so this is basically so if you want to stop the rocket pull service or start it you can do that from here as well so this would stop the dr. stack running so I think I can do that so you obviously get a little warning that you know full service is going to be stopped in any stinking mini pools which is our top of validators well you know obviously you penalized you're going down for a little bit you won't lose much if anything at all if you're only down for a very short time it's actually pretty forgiving that you need to so yeah you can stop the service you know if you need to take it down for maintenance or anything it'll stop everything in the background you know just basically confirm that everything's okay when that's done and

then you'll be able to start the service again when you've done any kind of server maintenance or anything like that it needs to and you know actually already might go stop your validators again and everything - so you don't need to worry too much about that the rock will stop all the handle on the background for you okay so yeah let's just stop there just restart it yeah anyway there's a few other screen shots screens in here which basically refer to showing you progress of how your nodes are syncing so if you know for any reason your node goes down you do lose some sync progress this is a screen you'll end up seeing so this shows you the current status of your F clients as they're sinking obviously you can't do

much with our software unless you have coins that are synced so this screen will pop up anytime your nodes fall behind and you will be able to you know before many actions once they've caught up again so you'll see this if you have you know a nice kind of significant downtime and you can't seem to reseat so anyway but that's um that's kind of it for I can show you a bunch more stuff but I won't drag it on yeah any questions or in that kind of stuff guys feel free to yeah I will say I'm comfortable enough with a command-line interface but that looks a hell of a lot better looks lovely yeah I'm actually designing this myself so if anyone has any any pointers feel

free to let me know oh and there will be a theme mode - I must say that so obviously our color scheme is pulling up to everyone's palate so we're going to have a kind of a you know a theme managing therefore in dark things I know that just to add to what Dave was going over there as well so the functionality that he's just showed off there in the GUI version it's basically so part of our daca stack is you know like the coal rocket cool CLI which runs most the business logic can actually be married performs others all those actions so with the CLI version you'll get roughly the same experience so

depending on what you're comfortable with you know you can go one way or the other the main difference with the GUI version is that as the remote server management stuff which doesn't exist in C like it and you've also got the metrics there's a couple of edit features or if I want you to get with CLI version awesome do you guys plan on doing any like graph ana integrations at all that is actually using queries two which is the same way to it yeah if anyone wants to make a you

know that should be very easy to do because all the stuff is already there pretty good you just need to basically use the same queries that GUI is using and build a dashboard even for fun I had up out of that very cool that's just so impressed with go ahead the the slickness of the display is just so incredible like that I think limbo she was saying himself you know he's used to the command line but in fact i i i regularly prefer you know i'd rather manage on the command line but then i see the smoothness so this interface and i'm like i I might just rather have that nice interface so I wondered slashing is

something that that I've been dealing with today I have been on a my own quest to be slashed like nobody's business using the prismatic clients I've lost 10 of thirty two nodes today managed I know that you all are using sub sub leasing clients like you're gonna use lighthouse and prismatic and whoever else is there slashing protection built into the stack a lighthouse slashing protection built into their client prismatic we don't necessarily have it built into basically

because we rely on node operators being basically economically bonded I mean they have to make a 16-8 deposit and then I see six in it from these other user who are running you know so it's basically we're putting the onus on them to obviously keep you know good uptime keep a secure service so it doesn't get slash because they stay in the suffering just as much as anyone else which is all they know which is where the whole six they need to we don't have any native solutions built into that but we do actually have some kind of insurance so in the rock pool network the known operators are actually have most to gain so they will obviously if they can stick their own teeth and they get a higher return than they would outside of it but in saying that they do

have to perform a good service for the users who are running your node and have this one to that no and the way we kind of protected against that in rock pool where if you have a really dodgy node operator which your it gets assigned to and I actually like I mentioned earlier too we do that chunking system where if you have a big deposit it gets broken up into chunks or for even side and then randomly spread around the network so even if you have a big deposit only fraction of your deposit might land on a node operator that's dodgy but even if that does happen an infraction your default ends up on a node operator which is you know really terrible and basically has lots at their time and they basically get kicked out of it too they have too much downs one

if that happens for any reason and the wrongful smart contracts will actually give that node operators 680 deposit to the people who are affected on that note as pond built insurance because that node operator obviously has the most to gain but they're really really terrible they have heaps of downtime they get kicked out system but note the users who were on their note they won't earn any rewards but they also won't lose any either so it's kind of a back up insurance system but these two have confidence that when they do it's in their deposits and I'm what you know they're not going to lose it all hopefully but yeah that's interesting question yeah as a note operator I'm like hmm I'm afraid like you know not not to be intentionally

dodgy but you know I it makes me realize that my my potential gain will need to be higher than I initially planned to make sure that it covers my risk should my 16 eath be shared with the people that that that were that I was operating for what if I somehow failed to operate correctly because that you know I'm always thinking about what what is my minimum what's the minimum reward that I'm gonna need from rocket pool in order to make it worth it and it's I'm still very much in flux with that yeah I mean it's kind of mostly for our users who

are staking to have confidence in the system I mean if I'm gonna get any deposits then there's no point then being it also we kind of do need to give some insurance to use funny note that you know if they do truly end up on a really terrible note operator they won't four to five you want and now I must say the note about its original 16 it deposit it's only distributed to these users and they're pretty extreme conditions if you have a little bit of downtime you know and you get penalized just a little bit here and there that's not gonna affect you at all you won't loose any it's only if you're down for say 18 days in a row and you get kicked out of the system it will actually beat you put you out at this time if you have

too much downtime and you lose too much of your original deposit only under that very extreme scenario would it actually give kind of sixteen eight deposit to the users of run unite so you have to really really be a truly terrible terrible operator for this to happen but it is some insurance for those uses at least I believe it stinks sorry sorry go on oh sorry just on that point about incentives for the node operator is what oh I think that's probably something something where the dynamic node fee that this is owned by the network comes in so obviously you want to get that right balance between you know users being incentivized to stay on the network and then I know it operators

being properly incentivized for their work and you know at this stage it's very hard to say you know what the right balance is in terms of how much the rewards the operatorship so you know it effectively gets to vote on and we should find you know the optimum point so how much would compensate them for that risk Joseph do you want to ask your question yeah fizz you're muted so I'll ask one I had a few lined up one was on auditing in security I posted in the sidebar I'll just read it out here they've started by mentioning that longer term locks would be removed for the time being in case of early issues which begs the question

about auditing or any kind of other security measures aside from the insurance mechanism what kind of reviews have been done of any related code and are able to say who's at work on those yeah absolutely great question we probably get asked this quite a bit actually and completely understandable in the web audits going we're actually going to add four pretty significant audience and possibly a bug bounty you later on the audits that we're going to get done I think it can be very significant I mean we have that the smart contracts or do we have to note software audited so that's going to be pretty significant we're still doing

some minor changes things here and there at the moment so we're not going to get any orders done until these changes are in place until we've run our next beta obviously if we need to make any significant changes and we've had audits done previously but we need to get them reordered so we're going to wait till we have a feature lock down after the next bait once that happens only minor fixes and stuff you know urgent fixes will be incorporated into the smart contracts it'll basically have been locked down from that point on then audits will happen possibly another beta and so hopefully would be significant boards and we won't obviously launch until we're a hundred temps are happy with that that's probably a mathe even if we do launch later than we want to that's

perfectly fine we're basically not going to launch until we are 110% sure everything's locked out as for who's going to do the audits we've got a couple of people in mind we're actually going to be shopping around for some audit quotes quite soon we have obviously consensus is invested in local pool so they actually have their own due diligence section so we may get them also lighthouse who is created by Sigma prime or also orders as well and they're in the same time zone as us which is actually really super handy and those guys are super swish though I mean they know better than anyone else so they're auditing Rockpool would actually be a really kind of a huge boon for us since they're so familiar with III as it is so we'll probably end up getting a few

quotes but I reckon employee in one of those two entities they actually ends up doing you know audits um you know a few months of time when we're basically locked down all the features all right so Phil had a good question up above - let me scroll up and just about key management and who has control of what so is it the node operator that has control over all 32 ethers it rock a pool or how freely can those keys be shipped around during proposals and attestation that's handled by the smart

note software and that's stored locally on the node operators node so they they have complete control over all the validator functionality but at this stage the withdrawal key is that's an aggregate key comparative keys held by rocket pool and some other trusted third parties which is like that's kind of the pattern of the Marmon sorry I'm not sure if you guys can still give me my connections with yeah sorry I'll be going home so yeah so basically like when phase two of the Easter roller comes around we'll be able to like do withdrawals from the beacon chain directly to smart contracts

on shards and that means that you know we can handle like distributing what's back to everybody you had perfectly trust this way but until then for phase zero or one while we're operating rocket pool like you know accommodation of ourselves and like you know and trusted third parties like investors and stuff like that will be collectively holding the withdrawal keys and we'll all need to you know sign withdrawal messages to get that the beacon chain ether onto a contract and we'll kind of handle disbursements for the stake isn't the note operators fire a token which we're using for rewards in phaser and Latin called RF so essentially in the first couple of stages sorry the first two

phases of the rollout everyone's earning rewards in ari's and then we perform the withdrawals from the beacon chains for the beacon chain ISA an r8 is traded back in for the beacon Chinese or widgets backed by wait here's a fun one oh so it'll be quick do you just fun do you guys have any speculations on what our eath will be worth compared to eath I'd probably say people with slightly less than 180 because there is no up say the gap in time between phaser and Phase two and obviously that needs to be taken into account so so you won't trade ones wine at least in my opinion probably a little bit less 0.9 that'd be my guess Oh point nine obviously anything at this

stage is just pure speculation but I think it's going to trade somewhere between essentially like the inverse of the amount of interest that is earned on the beacon chains a you know if if collectively validators a earning an average is like 5% interest and the inverse of that is like you know 0.95 - I think it'll be somewhere between that and 1e because you know if people have been staking they're not going to want to sell it for a loss most likely unless you know they really need cash fast or something like that and obviously you know you wouldn't pay more than money for it so I think it'll be somewhere in that area like towards one somewhere - less than one so much smarter answer than mine

gut feeling guess um okay someone in the chat wants to know when is the next beta are you guys planning to join up to the multi client test net and that goes live soon yeah we're basically holding back at this point obviously we want to finish off the GUI it still has a few sections which need to be completed and polished that's probably going to be the focus of our next they basically integration of that on top of the stack so I said that needs to be completed first and hopefully that should kind of wrap up within a better month's time I'd say there's probably going to be a multi

contestant in the near future so yeah we're point is going to launch straight on to that for your next beta originally we had planned to possibly do our own testing it again like we did for last one but obviously this is a multi contestant running yeah we're naturally go straight to that all right sounds good to me so what do you guys have or will you have as far as like failover options go is there an oh button we can ship it off elsewhere yeah number of settings in the contracts which anyone can say they're all open source we can essentially stock deposits you

know if something immediately goes wrong we can hold the whole system allowed no debt or praise to referral and so forth so yeah we do kind of have that ability to shut everything down if we need to and that can be done quite quickly obviously if there's any massive issues yeah which hopefully there won't be but yeah we do have that ability and also on a more like personal level like if my server goes down can I ship my validators off to super feds if he's also running a node is that something's gonna be possible or maybe ship them over to AWS or something like that you can fill this one but you can't export your keys so yeah so rocket pool like we

we weren't directly I think you know be providing infrastructure for that just due to the like the decentralized nature of the project that that's like a fairly custodial sort of patent so we wouldn't be looking at providing something like that ourselves but I think that's something that the node operators can manage themselves like fairly trivially so so you've got like your new running at home and you want to just you know have some backup to you know to switch everything to in case like something happens to your connection or your computer catches fire or whatever so you can quite easily just set up a like an instance when a cloud hosting provider and you know install the rocket pool step on that and basically just keep the

each one of these three nodes up distinct eath one you could use since gyro if if you like so it's really mostly just about keep keeping an Easterner instinct just to avoid any downtime if you do need to switch onto it there's an important note there where like if you've got a redundant setup you definitely don't want to your validator keys on multiple computers at the same time because you might get yourself slashed so don't do that but you know on your note at home you would just back up your validator keys hopefully at some point we will have HD key derivation for BLS keys at the moment I haven't seen any of that in a while but as soon as that exists you know we'll definitely look at implementing that so for now you know

it's basically every time you create a mini call you back up your validator keys and then if anything goes wrong you just you know turn off praça pull on your computer at home get on to that cloud oversee the instance as long as you've been keeping sync it's all ready to go if not if you do need to do with seeing the penalties for downtime aren't really that should be yeah they're pretty manageable so you just switch onto that and then put your validated keys onto that machine and you know you're ready to go so you know it's not really something that we need to interfere with directly that much ourselves it's and like obviously we'll have guides for you know how to allocate these were done and setups going you

know just so people know the best practices for this sort of thing you a couple of Falls great night oh sorry physical hood no sure I was I'm just going to point out I I like you it made sense to me to take a validator down but it's it's a great idea to to just leave them up on one machine at a time and I'll go ahead and let you finish your question yeah well one quick follow-up to the first one and I'll move on to another if that's okay regarding funding you mentioned that I think you I think it was lighthouse that

you had some relationship with and consensus have done some other work but audits can get pricey are you guys okay in that area or had you considered applying elsewhere in terms of grant related funding like the eath Foundation's ecosystem support program among others uh yeah we should be okay in that regard obviously we've been running for quite a while so it everyone has had extended so originally we built rocket for the first version is - which was a smart contract version I'm stakin so obviously we had to you know kind of hit the reset button in that regard so we've had since some small investment from consensus and that should get us

through past the audits phase and yeah everyone weighs quite a bit so yeah we're doing okay we're actually relatively a small project as well it's yeah it's Jake you know I pretty much doing design share the work of Mary we occasionally ask for some work any kind of contract related stuff but yeah at the moment we're doing pretty well we also have I think about 12% of the original RP else - from the original token sale which was a few years ago at this point so that should easily pay for what it's - if we need to at this point as well so yeah we're actually looking at can there we go yeah that's great and the other other question was something that's

interesting to a lot of people is a direct delegation option obviously this isn't a DPOs system so many others are but the option for them will exist if people build them they could run their own validators or you could delegate so here from what I'm hearing and I'm new to rocket pool but you're sort of randomly distributed to some number of different validators but is it possible in the future to see an option where people with high levels of reputation verifiable security and a track record might be able to sort of find themselves featured or have the ability for people to delegate directly to trusted parties people that they know aren't running on say AWS

where you'd face a / if they were downtime yeah that's that's a really great question we've actually owned I was actually talking to a sticky as a service provider quite recently about this originally currently we have the we kind of treat every node operator equally and this is to event.prevent gaming the system to some degree the minute you start elevating some node operators over others can result in gaming collusion and a few other things that they work so that's essentially why we treat everyone on the same level and basically stamping simple and randomly I do actually think there might be possibility for so I'd like this in the future because we do have a number of

second year service providers who are looking running some Rockpool nodes themselves in which they'll have their own customers either state are on these notes so and they also want the ability for you know any eighth coming through the front door to select their notes to be staked on if they're their customers so that's actually an open discussion I'm having at the moment originally my gut feeling is just keep it as it is in treat everyone equally but you know there could be a demand for this possibility so you know there is possibility for that to possibly happen in future based on on-demand ok I would can i clarify I I was under the impression that that branded staking or

staking with with your cohort was something that that had been accepted but you're saying that's that's still up in the air is that right oh no so at the moment you have the ability to register a group in the network so this is basically if you're in exchange or wallet provider and you want your users its staked interoperable network or done in the background like they need never know that was doing it's basically a decentralized infrastructure of service force taking so yeah they can basically create a group in the rock pool network smart contracts they then get an ID and then any deposit that sent in to rock pool is their group ideas supplied along with it and they can then and I track these deployed since we've drawn them in and

out of rock pool using their own smart contracts and then funnel them back to their uses that way so that way the node operators are still doing staking for these users but obviously they can't they can select which node operators they're going to be doing the staking so yeah that's kind of a different system in that regard but yeah I think I think Joseph was asking basically if you know certain node operators can be selectively do the staging for this content through the front door be that through a group or just you know anyone else so and that was my understanding I I had sort of said to my friends hey join my group I'll stake your yet on my server through rocket pool but that's not that they could join my group but

there their stake would still be distributed throughout the system is that right yes security mechanism yeah I think just to add on top of that as well it's also you know just part of our UX for you know onboarding you know regular users onto the rocket pool like a lot of these you know delegated protist a kind of systems there's a reasonably high barrier to entry where you know you need to do a bit of research about you know what constitutes good value you've got a review all about put into the marketplace a big one we've tried to like significantly lower that barrier so it's about you know as a regular user it's just fire forget you put your deposit into the queue and then you're good to go you know like it's

like this will get assigned to a mode after the races yeah again to enter that like decentralization is obviously made a priority for us so if we start elevating some notes over other nodes you know because it in a reputation basis and something like that that can actually lead to pretty severe centralization if you have some node operators that you know have a really good reputation they could end up getting the lion's share of Earth from rocket for and then you have all these are the little node operate is you know running a laptop you know in their granny's basement or something like that that aren't getting any deposits because they've only just joined system and they don't have any reputation so they can actually use foil into centralization

pretty quickly if you don't kind of treat all night oh praise equally it's definitely like an interesting discussion to have though so and like it's good to hear feedback on this stuff so if if that's like an effete a lot of people want keep being very cool about it for sure because if it's what people want I you know that might be added at some point in the future like show the design is you have it is superior to the design that I understood it's it seemed like a neat feature to say you know my friends trust me I'm sorry they do this but they trust me more than they trust the rest of the

networks they're like hey man I trust you to sake from me on rocket pool but I don't trust everyone else but regardless of my perception I do think that your design is superior to that perception yeah that's also part of the reason why we have that 16/8 deposit that the night operator has to make so obviously they get to stake their own teeth and you know get a fee as well so to get a bigger return but it also keeps them motivated and to stay on line because they suffer just as much as anyone else that has it deposits once they know so it kind of works out in that regard too so you can kind of I hate to use the word anyway trust but you can't kind of trust these new operators to perform in your best interest as well as theirs and

if they get slashed or penalized severely they take basically all of that penalty right yeah well not in the case of slashing because in cases slashing all that is pretty much gone so you have to do some really really severe to get slashed most likely intentionally it's only really in the case of sphere linkage that these users basically get refunded at the nodal craters okay but in saying that the way who works the way it distributes these chance of a three on the network means I only effect even if part of your deposit ends up on a note operator they get slashed you're not going to lose all

your deposit you're only getting always a fraction of it if it was more than four we at least if it was our money and that ends up and dodgy note operated to get slashed and right okay what is the least amount of eath that a note operator can put themselves can put in themselves and what is the most amount the highest amount that they could find themselves in not directly in control of but sort of responsible for it's really a question on thinking about attack vectors and whether or not somebody might try and play games in terms of

market manipulation they might put up 16 eighth as a security deposit but end up with hundreds or thousands of eath a located in terms of different different validator spread around and if they were bad actors and they wanted to see that if burned but short markets you know could they try to gain system that way yeah so basically just once sixteen deposit is required per valedale so you can't simply just make you know once again deposit and then get like a thousand eight this on to you from rocket pool you'll only get sixteen eighty to match that deposits must be half yeah so you basically you'll always have half of the eighth will be your own from the node

operator that's all essentially to keep them honest like if they made a 16-8 deposit then we'd so on and fascinate that node operator could easily be malicious and just not care about that sixteen eight and just everyone slash because i hate rokkit pool so that would obviously be a really bad scenario so that's essentially economically bonded in that regard so yeah so you get to stake your knee this is where stinky as a service providers kind of confining rocket core as an attractive option to state their own users eat because if they run nodes in our network they'll essentially get a higher return they would air them and in there kind of obviously their investors best interests say yeah we haven't talked to a few days at the

moment so we should have plenty of notes to you know accept deposits from these users who aren't running notes and we actually also have another system built into that that acts kind of a redundancy measure so we have what's a redundancy stuff in raqqa for it's a little crazy so if let's say your rocket pulley is getting heaps and heaps and heaps of deposits coming in through the front door but there's not as many no toppers coming online to a comment those deposits with your own 16 e in that regard we actually have a fall over mechanism called a trusted known now the trust at node is a node that we basically know who's running it so it'll probably be probably a sort consensus or anything like that trust that nodes aren't required to make the 16-8 deposit so they can basically

create validators to accommodate this extra demand in the ripple Network in saying that they are always picked last for deposit assignment so the second you know an untrusted node makes another sixteenth deposit in the network they will always get picked for the next deposit from there to users so there's kind of trust nodes act as a fall over mechanism when the network gets really really popular has a lot either coming the front door but not enough node operates at stake for it and they aren't economically bonded in that regard because we know who's running so a bit essentially a backup engineer mechanism for the network gets too popular if it does so yeah oh yeah sorry do you want to read Phillies questions

mmm did you have a yes he is - pretty good questions in the the chat everyone and then you can the bookkeeping and if done on eath one how do you get data from east to into eath one respectfully how is your Oracle solution for getting data about node how many that's that's actually a really good question so those trusted nodes that I just mentioned the actors of fall over mechanism for when the network is too popular they actually do a couple other duties so they act as Oracle's for they can chain data there's actually we can't trust untrusted nodes with this data because there is no breach of 20 to 1/8 one at the moment so these trust and

notes that sitting in the network basically report this data and allow untrusted notes - you know withdraw or whatnot and this is where that functionality comes in it reports there it to data to our smart contracts essentially so yeah we also can't trust untrusted nodes with this because they could be malicious you know Forge there any two data and so forth so that's where our Oracle data comes from for the network so that's only going to be a temporary solution until you know if - each one is rolled into it - as a shot you know that votes likely be phase two or you know slip later than that they're actually talking about at the moment

about a new mechanism for combining it to an eighth one yeah anyway that that's in the future so this is pretty much just a temporary measure we have to use these trust nodes as Horrible's to reports they contain data but they will be phased out when each one is rolled into it and the main responsibility for those is going to be reporting validated that belly of status vector v1 trained specifically to the many cool contracts so they'll be watching all the validators associated with rocket rule mini pools and when you know one of those validates become smart as exited then it's going to update the millionth legal status to logged out then when the validator becomes with drawable so there's like a bit of its

away on the bacon chain between voluntary exit and you know being able to actually withdraw the deposit then it's going to mark the mini pool as withdrawn which means you know that doesn't mean the validator at like has had its balance with throwing you it just means that the mini pool is done so it'll mark to many people as withdrawn and then mint an amount as our ease to it equal to the final balance of the validator so it's essentially saying here's the final down to the validator that you know rocket pool will be handling the withdrawals for we're going to create a matching amount of re put that on the money pool and then that can be distributed between the word operator and it uses as droids yeah hopefully most of this stuff can be eliminated once each one's rolled in a

Tyrian there is actually the preface through stuff yeah from interacting with the community what would you say is the demand for people wanting to run their own nodes and demand for people wanting to have their youth staked is that pretty equal or is it heavier to one side I think the people currently following a to development are people that do want to run no it's just because they're most passionate ones I think you'll find when if two rolls out and there's obviously a lot of excitement that people can still mistake you will get a lot of questions from people running notes it would possibly want to stake their other so I

think that will change in certain flux but at the moment I'd say no diapers are probably the most vocal just because that they want they want to try it's taking and you know what it running it eight to climb they want to run the rock whole stack so they probably the most folk okay would you say you guys are gonna be ready for main nemesis block or is it still up in the air it's it really comes down the security audit so I mean that's a hundred percent satisfied I know that's you know get pretty excited and whatnot and we do want to launch you know as early as possible in Phase three

but that will only happen one where a hundred percent happy with the audits no one it won't be made public so we're going to focus on transparency in that regard too but yeah I mean only once everything's been ordered and 100 times that happy and then Phil had another question how are their sentence in lined so that everybody's not running nodes in the same political geopolitical region covered base go ahead yeah but that's kind of baked into the beacon change for sure yeah no you're right yeah so sorry they're the bacon chain is designed so slashing and inactivity sort of

penalties scale quadratically based on the number of other validators that get penalized in the same sort of rough time period so you know in in layman's terms all that means is that if you're on a cloud hosting provider and you know a server farm gets hit and there's like you know hundreds of validators operating on that server farm they will all get penalized a lot more like the penalties get scaled up because you know they all get you at the same time so so the beacon chains already you know telling you not to do that yeah and I'll just add them to that too when you do register a node in the raca pool network you have the option for it to automatically detects your timezone so you don't have to do this but but by

default I think a lot of people will obviously this doesn't link any personal information back to you all we have is your node account and the time zone it's allocated and in the last beta we actually had a network map which showed you where all these nodes and then in the beta work so it's actually pretty evident straight up if you know a lot of more cool is centralized in one area based on the way these known operators base apprentice that node if they report their time zone they don't have to we're not enforcing it but I would probably recommend it so you can then at least see where networks are the nodes and then when they were come to dream I guess the fear while you pull this up is just that say everybody's on Azure and

Azure has downtime so I asked a question earlier that had to do with quality node let's say superficie wanted you this was back to the delegation question right yes parties but I understood the answer on why you may not have wanted folks were able to choose initially their their validator due to risk but has any thought gone into some sort of middle ground where just as somebody's passionate passing a threshold to become a trusted node if there are a pool of higher tier let's say node providers that have been online part of the service for a longer period of time have it passed some sort of

a validation to show that they're not using cloud service providers among other things then you could sort of select into this area sort of a pool of higher quality nodes so that it doesn't sort of reach in dangerous centralizing that system yeah I mean that kind of touches on that what we're talking about earlier with the kind of centralization aspect it is darling I definitely would investigate again because I feel there will probably be some demand for this kind of thing at least that's what I've heard from some studies service providers so far but again we're direly implemented if you know it couldn't result in gaming the network to some

degree which once you start selecting some node operators over other notice it opens up a whole can of worms in the way the system could be game and can also lead the centralization so for now I think we would guess it's going to stick with the the random sampling method and they also the chunking method reduces that risk you're depositing wiped out as well so let's say that you know AWS results in hosting a heap of nodes in in rock pool only a fraction your deposit might actually end up on these notes - did the chunking system in the way it distributes eat around the network so there is a possibility for that to

happen but hopefully if you're in rockport I like caution if you deposit would be affected if you know of all the AWS went down besides that yeah if we do stats like in some node operas and the others you will potentially look at some gaming the system so I don't know if chunking is a middle kind of a quit actors like a middle ground for that if we did start selecting some node operators over others you know that's that's I'm will definitely look into if this demand for it but at the moment I feel that could probably lead to centralization system and some gaming and I have one more and I've actually got to jump off at the top of the hour but this has been fun and fizz thanks for allowing me and I'll

watch the rest on YouTube last question for me is on centralization how our trusted node selected and if it's some sort of whitelist approval from the team sort of a Part B is there any eventual plan to burn key central you know the keys that might be hosted by the team that would allow you to do things like select those trusted nodes if they are selected by the team or to shut down contracts rather than token holders performing those actions yes I call it two two categories so that basic settings and stuff in the rock upon network you know look like selecting which nodes can operate as a trust note

for best live for that fall over mechanism the network gets to popular interpret act as an Oracle for it to data that's that's chosen by us is a whitelist so obviously if we know the entity that spraying that trusted no that's what makes it trusted so that could be you know consensus rocking for or any other third party with networks best interests in mind so wait we get to select those because obviously we can't you know let anyone else if we opened up to it like a voting mechanism that could be game itself as well and touch on to your other one the smart contract upgrade mechanism currently we have a two out of three key system which can upgrade a contract now this is only for

test it's a shooter that we have currently in our repo because we have a lot of zombie notes basically now last two days people would spin off node create a couple validate this and then just run away just cuz they've seen how it works and we'd have all these nodes in the network with no one at the helm essentially so in other cells to upgrade contracts and so forth and abeyance we've just use this basic two out of three key system the mainly upgrade mechanism for all smart contracts will be a Democrat so if you're running basically we will put out a proposal will deploy a contract to Manor we will say this we want this contract to replace this contract in Rockville network so they can be

inspected by you know anyone basically with mania access the nodes in the network will then have to so you have to be a node running offs we if we lay our nose to folk that aren't running validator that can be up you know that's opening up a whole can it won't because they're not committed to the network you know someone could register a whole bunch of nodes in the rockwool Network and basically sway the boat so if you are running what at least one validator in our network as a node operator you will basically get the opportunity to vote for this proposal so we obviously have a change log in as well so you'll be able to see the changes in the contract if 51% of the node operation that worked for the release one validator running info for

this contract change it will pass immediately if two weeks passed and no one in sorry if you can also abstain from the boat so you don't have to vote but if two weeks pass in 51% of the node operators with least one valid a-runnin either vote for it or abstain it passes or if 51% vote against it it instantly gets dismissed and we have to put up another proposal for a smart contract change so obviously there's two levels is changing your whole smart contract in our network is obviously a big thing and we want that to be very transparent so hence the kind of democratic voting system do the changes or a contract treaties made but you also have these

other minor settings which we have direct control over such as selecting trusted notes and fourth guys we can't trust that to any other system at moment awesome thanks so much thanks for coming out guys it's been an hour so this will wrap it up yeah that was great yeah you definitely said we're not going to be abrupt and then he was like abrupt but um David Jake we we're so delighted you guys made it out we already felt really good about RocketBallz before but I have to admit like as we get closer I'm like you know I might I'm gonna probably stick with one of the core clients I

don't want to risk anything but you guys continually earn my trust over and over so I'm really looking forward to taking some notes with you all and so you've done great work and we really appreciate your time yeah we really appreciate having a shot it's a bit early here so I'm gonna go grab a coffee thanks heaps having us guest yeah thank you very much yeah yeah thanks everybody yeah have a good one