EIPIP Meeting 103

Transcript

welcome to EIP IP meeting 103 this is issue number 334 on E caters EIP IP GitHub repository on agenda we have some open issues and poll requests for review by editor and then some Community proposal added to issue section call for input and other discussions from past meetings or any updates from earlier meetings we'll take a quick look at eips insight and and if there are any open review action items from earlier meetings so starting with the first item we have a handful of poll requests added here so the first one is an edit to the final

proposal generally we bring them to this meetings the pr number is 8390 on EIP GitHub repository I wonder what editors think about it uh yeah I think this is good to go as long as we get a an author approval on it so just waiting on author's approval and there is no objection by any editor cool so there are handful of other edits to proposal which are already in final status and these seems to be all typo we can perhaps start with the pr number 8394

yeah I can probably take care of these offline these seem fine um just typos yeah I'll merge these offline as long as they're sane yeah kind of been merging some of these that I've seen pop up to final eaps like things that are clearly just typos should probably accept I don't see a problem with it sounds good so there is this next uh update stagnant EIP pull request so with this particular PR this is PR number 8418 I'm refering to for this particular PR my concern are number one this is a

proposal to update a proposal which is already in stagnant status so we don't know whether it's going to be active ever or not and the second one is um that uh the update suggested is very small small so should we accept this kind of PR or simply close them um yeah I think this is fine um I mean they're both clearly errors so I'm fine merging this so the issue here is like when a proposal is moved to stagnant they are moved because the utor is not

responding or making any changes but if we merge any change it will not be stagnant anymore yeah it will stay stagnant unless we explicitly change it the status all right yeah so I think it's fine you okay if I merge this one Matt um sorry one sec yeah no worries it's uh replacing an R is with just R and then there were two B yeah okay cool yeah I've also I mean yeah I'm generally happy to merge things that are like removing words that make it correct in a sentence yeah

yeah very well after that we have a bunch of potential spams I mean they appeared like spams to me uh someone may please take a look and if they are we can perhaps close them or yeah I can close those offline awesome um so the next one is community proposal added to issues actually this was not added to issue this was uh added on eaters Discord so this individual is willing to work on a proposal and looking for some feedback I think Matt has already added some feedback to the proposal and this is just one sample example uh like we have

recently received quite a few requests in that direction like where can people collaborate to come up with a better proposal or start discussing I know Fellowship of ethereum magician is one of those place but that is generally when a proposal is already there and we start discussing I wonder any editors has any thought suggestion for this particular proposal or the issue in general I don't really have any good suggestions here unfortunately um of course we can are

looking for something better than what eth magician is providing um okay and I think magician is a good place for start discussion on anything we want to see as a proposal but there is some gap before proposal before it turns into an EIP and after it is started from eth research paper so the Gap in between e research to Fellowship of ethereum magician is something that people are looking for okay so there's a research idea that's proposed and then there's not a place to discuss the research idea

further before it becomes a actual spec proposal yeah that's a better way to put it yeah okay um is there an example that was given or do you just saying in general um yeah the example that I have received is actually with respect to a proposal which is already existing uh that is for issuance e issuance so the concern here that was shared is like okay we know that there is a proposal for E issuance and we would want to further discuss it but we don't know what to do

how we can invite more Community to come and share their idea especially participants who are actively involved for example the staking pool and these people who are little less attracted to e Research Forum or Fellowship of ethum magician Forum can we have an intermediate placeholder for these guys to come forward and talk about the proposal well would this be different than just a forum or like this type of thing makes sort of makes sense to me as a e magician's thread like a discussion about the issuance of ethereum going forward like vital posted this post the role of Cent road map for

ethereum and that was you know not a specific proposal was more of an idea about how ethereum should be moving forward so it kind of makes sense that in this case like a generic conversation e magicians feels like the right place to do it if it was something more technical like let's say something like epbs and there was a proposal about an epbs mechanism on each research and then there's a bit of a question like where do you continue discussing and improving that spec before it becomes like an actual EIP and that I don't really have a great answer for I think the answer is that it sort of happens in an emergent way where

the authors of the proposal again talking with collaborators and those collaborators start discussing things on telegram channels on Discord channels and on the e&d Discord we try to have a lot of channels where all of the general topics that people could imagine are sort of represented and if there are topics that aren't represented then we could probably add another Channel and that feels like the right place generally to bridge that gap between we have a a research idea we need to iterate on it to get it into an EIP spec idea I know that that's probably not the best in terms of like looking back in history and understanding how that pipeline happened you know going from E research to EIP like we sort of Miss the

archivability of that data that goes into Discord I just don't know if we can force a better a better proposal than the instant messaging platforms that that we're using me we could make a matrix server or something and then link to that from yeah yeah but like that's that's I don't know I I mean I generally like wish that we could switch to that but it feels that feels hard so there are a few proposals around uh solution to this this particular

Problem by the same group that they have shared the uh this concern uh they suggested that it would be a good idea to have a simplified summary we do peep which is kind of uh um extensive like we get an overview but sometimes it is more technical as well so it is a good idea to have a write up of like simplified summary of of that particular problem and then share it with the related party maybe perhaps host a live call and everything else to encourage them to ask more questions and uh share their feedback in terms of like if they are supporting the proposal they there is a reason why they are doing that and share that reason and if they don't want that proposal let people know about that as

well because when these proposals become EIP like an E3 search P turn into an EIP and then it is being discussed on ACD call and then people start thinking about it like okay uh we as a particular group do not like this proposal it is too late and it's kind of wastage of time so we should try to pre-stage this conversation before getting into EIP I guess it's a bit of a question like how much is the responsibility on us to go out into the community and pull them in versus the community and a caring about the

direction of the protocol and I don't know I mean it's a balance between those two things but I generally lean on the side that the discussions are happening in an open way and they're based on the Merit of the proposals and so if there are interested parties who have perspectives then there are the platforms for them to share those perspectives and engage in the debate sometimes it's useful for us to go out and have calls and bring people in who maybe are have opinions but aren't going through the hassle of engaging directly where the conversation is happening but I think that's like a little bit separate of is there an open place to have the discussion and the

debate like for issuance it feels like we could have a threat on E magicians where people can discuss in my mind also uh e Fellowship of ethereum magician is a very good place to keep on all ongoing discussion but for rest of the concerns perhaps cat herders can do some coordination and maybe try to bring all um interested parties here for any call or maybe yeah a placeholder I think the ask here with the EIP editors would be when we organize these kind of calls it would be really helpful if someone from the editor team may show up and add their

feedback like do their think if this proposal is or if this thought is good enough to be a proposal or if it is already a proposal what else needs to be done over there so maybe an active contribution from EIP editing but we would definitely try not to increase the burden of editors at all yeah makes sense I feel like I end up on a lot of these things from anyways um so happy to continue being a part of them however well thank you that's comforting I hope we T we continue talking to this group and maybe in the upcoming meeting

we have something more concrete to share and try to collect feedback from the group kind of On a related subject I've I've noticed that a lot of proposals or or families of proposals have these like uh telegram chats or whatever that keep it off of uh Fellowship of ethereum magicians like 3074 has one um 4337 has a bunch of them should we be doing more to pull these discussions onto Fellowship of ethereum magicians or should we just let them be their own separate thing yeah this is a really hard

question debate I guess I just try to imagine so I guess for one I do feel like a lot of the opinions bubble back into e magicians I don't know if you agree with that but it feels like a a lot of the high level opinions do eventually make it back maybe not in real time maybe not with as much color and Clarity but they're represented in the thread and you're just going to struggle to provide the same experience that people have with just like instant messaging platforms as telegram on E magicians and so they're just like different ways for people to communicate about the proposals and standards so I

mean it's the same with the R&D Discord like so much of these proposals that are on E mag get discussed in the eth R&D Discord and we don't and for those like we don't necessarily always get that information back into the E magician thread and maybe we should try and do a better job at that but it's just like how can we force people to put that information back into a platform that doesn't have as good ux as in as responsive requires a lot more effort than like quick one-off messages and you know looking back at the 3074 thread something that's you know been around for years has changed quite a lot over time it's pretty difficult to even read all those messages and follow exactly what's happened so is that what we like

one thing expect for all the proposals I don't know it's sort of a hard yeah no I I agree 100% I just wanted to to bring it up here and yeah I mean I'm I'm okay keeping the status quo yeah I think this this was also one of the concern that many group of proposals are having their separate set of information uh broadcasting system maybe telegram maybe creating a website so if we can provide a placeholder for general public to come and find the uh respective discussion forum even if it is a telegram group or website so they can go and add their thoughts perhaps we

will do some more brainstorming in that direction and we'll try to come up with certain ideas yes Victor please go ahead I I think I I agree many with the what Matt says that uh like and then I also think that the status quo seems to be so far the best um uh one thing we can encourage people to provide is actually whatever like motivations rationals uh that is that that has an effect in the in the proposal should be included in the proposal body itself and for example like you people

can have a long discussion in whatever Discord Channel they decide or they use different ways but when it comes to okay these are the reason we make the decision uh it should appear uh on the proposal itself and as long as people have summarize their discussion and make put the most important points reasonings onto the proposal itself I it seems to be okay the status quo uh they use FM or whatever other approach May yeah my point is just to make it more more explicit that uh whatever you discuss other way in other other places if they make effect in your proposal make sure that it's reflected

on the proposal yeah I think that's really good advice we shouldn't be relying on on Fellowship of The Magicians to to track everything if it's important it should be in the document I agree with that right I I guess the the end yeah and and a counter example is that uh someone comes in and make a suggestion the other says well we discussed it in that place and then we decide not to and it shouldn't be uh a good argument to counter it should be hey in this particular line of The Proposal we summarize a discussion that has this rationale so uh it's already discussed yeah the general line of

recommendation here is if you have anything with respect to the proposal like it's feeling in support or against please go ahead there and if you have any specific spec changes please go ahead and uh make the comment at um the GitHub because spec related changes it's better and easy to track uh on GitHub side very well we will continue to discuss it uh in upcoming meetings I hope we have some solutions and some more thoughts collected from the community moving on to the next item which is call for input we see here around five call for input those are

open um Sam if you would like to take each one of them yeah sure um so we have 329 which is uh Victor's uh call for input um I think this is open until the 29th and this is um uh about author lists um then we have 331 which is uh changing an author username um open till May 2nd leave your comments uh then we [Music] have uh 332 which is uh gaj jinder's proposal on how to treat typo correction PRS

generally um this one is open until May 8th uh and then we have 333 um which is changing more author usernames um and this one is open until May 10th um that's all of them thank you Sam um with that we can move on to the next item which we partially have already discussed uh there are a few questions on around how to do that so we already discussed how we can perhaps create a more inclusive environment a placeholder for collaboration and discussion uh the next point that we discussed partially in in the previous meeting is

about uh improving the EIP review The Proposal review and how can we perhaps showcase EIP editors work and contribution I understand we are receiving too many proposals there are lot of open open PRS and issues however I'm happy to share that uh the number has decreased from the last meeting so now we thought that it it would would be a good idea to keep tracking of open issues and PR in every meeting and we can take a look and see how we are progressing in that direction but I would appreciate if there are any other suggestions of showcasing these Works being done on EIP editing site does anyone have any thoughts

ideas showcasing in what sense like we want to just show people that we're making progress or yes of course like uh it's not that uh eips when like many people still complain that when we make a pull request it is unattended for a very long time but that's not the real case right now we are trying to attend as many as possible uh so we just want to let people know that if it is unattended it's not because there are no editors to review it it's that that their volume has increased significantly um like earlier when we did EAP editing office hour we received 27 PRS and out of 27 14 were reviewed in 1 hour so we made a very good progress over there so that can be tracked but I don't know how

we it can be better represented so people understand uh the value of EIP editing and maybe get inspired to lend their hand to help out with other reviews yes please go ahead I'm Bumble I think your hands up I'm mistakes oh um I don't know maybe we uh leave a comment with estimated time until you get a review on PO requests bot comment automatic comment that's a very good idea it might also just be terrible and

make people angrier when it's like you'll get reviewed in six months no we need to be uh be mindful of the timeline but that would give them a little bit satisfaction that okay it's not completely unseen and then we can I mean we will try to um attend to those proposals obviously we are doing uh with this editing officer try to attend most of them but if someone something is missed that's a very good comment I don't know I'm thinking of something like Dune dashboard or something for how many issues and PR are being closed in a month I mean like on a

weekly basis or on a monthly basis if that can be tracked um we could also track like the average time PO requests are open for um I don't know if that's something EIP insights can do but that'd be an interesting metric okay I think EIP insights have a lot of uh very good visualization uh and insights it just doesn't get displayed more often um if we can and like always link to an EIP insights for like weekly that'll be helpful U yeah yeah sure we can perhaps consider this uh as another added metrics uh for

EIP Insight average open time for p might want to take a look into how it can be done but that's yes you want to link from the e EIP uh website to e EIP insights I it kind of intrigued me to think about that I think it might be helpful I wonder if anyone has any strong opinion in either direction okay maybe we can uh review the website one more time with all the

metrics that we need and we'll try to up add it very well so that also covers like how we can lower the number of open issues and poll request if we start working in this direction perhaps it will give us a good visibility of how many issues and peers are being closed and yeah if we are making progress in that direction one other thing which is not listed here which I would love to collect some thoughts and feedbacks here we are being approached by a group of contributors who are willing to make their first pull request into the ethereum repository can

there be a list of tasks that we can point them to to maybe start working for example I know we have been looking for automation of EIP numbering not that the current process is too much of a trouble it's working fine but that was always uh under our review that we would be one day having it automatic automated uh so like this can we create this list and when people are looking for making their first uh PR we can probably Pro we can probably Point them towards this active list what do people think about it like that may help our e editing

process I think if we had a list of places to go and find stuff like for like e ew has a lot of um open issues on it that people can go in and grab it's just nobody knows to go and look there for them um so I think if we had like a landing page that's like uh take a look at these issues on these repositories if you want to find something to work on that might be useful yes that's exactly what we are trying to do here we are trying to create like um create a placeholder for that we can perhaps do that on uh e ecat Herer website uh for all open issues we can point them towards but we would need

to have a list of that so one is ew which we think would be helpful for EIP um editing process is there any work related to EIP bot is still pending I see there are a lot of open issues but I'm not sure how relevant they are uh this is on uh eeview bot yes um this thing is kind of gone stagnant now that um Panda has uh resigned um I can I like I'm I'm capable of maintaining it but like I I haven't really been pushing it forward so is that a good idea to maybe

um send interested uh individuals to what that repository and maybe we can um talk to them once a month or something like that we can definitely do that yeah yeah um I guess Point them at me and we'll see what we can do sounds good but generally speaking to all other participants like all other editors I know you guys are maintaining so many repositories here so if you find something uh for which uh you would be interested to seek Community uh support like there are group of students who would be interested in making contribution please do let me know I will try to put all these repository at

one placeholder and start pointing people to go towards that that sounds awesome thank you for for handling that yeah no problem um all right let's move on to the next item I think there is an open PR to be reviewed by rip editor I don't see rip editor in the meeting I don't know what to be done uh to maybe in I have been inviting them but I would try to understand um how we can actually ask them to be a part of this because unless they are here there are certain things with respect to RPS which we aren't able to move forward so if anyone can persuade any Editor to join or maybe to

review these proposals please please do that for us the next is a web page rendering to include EIP ERC and working group Charter um I understand for working group chatter this discussion was on hold for quite some time I don't know Sam if we are ready to discuss that because there are proposals and I know people are interested to learn more about the idea of working group that you have proposed earlier uh yeah I I just haven't been able to work on it and it's probably going to sit here for a little while longer Unfortunately no problem we can bring it back whenever we are ready

moving on as I mentioned earlier in the meeting that I have tried to document all these open issues and P so it gives us a sense in upcoming meetings how we are doing on that and we can perhaps start adding metrics um and uh yeah taking a look at the eips inside for the month of April wow we have 29 new drafts for four proposals um including EIP and ERC we don't see any change on rip side and uh one proposal in last call for uh EIP as well as for ERC on EIP The Proposal is

7587 which is Reserve pre-compile address range for rip and the last call is ending tomorrow we have planned a peep meeting with Timo to EXP this proposal this is also one of a kind of proposal in which we are allocating specific compile pre-compiled address range for rollup Improvement proposal it will be interesting to learn more about this proposal but if anyone has any final common thoughts especially from the developers Community tomorrow is the last date for this proposal and on ERC side we have EIP sorry we have ERC 5564 which is again stealth addresses uh proposal and um the end date for the last call here is April

30th so people if you have any thoughts comments or any last minute comment for respective proposals please add them to Fellowship of ethereum magician or the P request for this these proposals we have received a two final proposal on ERC this month those are ERC 7528 and ERC 7535 for details people may check out the eips Insight website the next one is EIP editing office Ser I have already shared the stats uh that we reviewed in the last editing office hour we have received quite a few good comment uh people are learning a lot from this edit these

editing office hours so thank you Sam for taking out time and answering to individual questions we look forward to receive more propos more questions from the community so we be able to get more standards and good one all right I'm just quickly taking a look at the last meeting notes if we have any action item from the last meeting sorry Victor um did you right let me mute him okay it looks all good to me and that

perhaps bring us to the end of today's meeting does anyone has anything else to bring up or discuss nothing for me well thank you Sam for also uh like looking into the earlier peers and merging them simultaneously and yeah someone please take a look at the spams as well so we can close them off as well thank you everyone for joining us today and uh I hope to see everyone in two weeks than for putting this all together pleasure bye bye byebye