Crypto and NFTs in the Metaverse: Present and Future

Transcript

okay great uh good day and good night everyone and thank you very much for watching our panel uh also thanks to the ethical organizers for giving us such a great chance to discuss the materials together today we are very honored to have five very great guests as our panelists i think most of them every one of them are the most important pioneers in the metaverse so first lam please allow me to make a very quick introduction uh i will start from the sequence in my in my screen so first is yacht from yates the ceo and the co-founder of animoka

brands and kirby partner at infinity ventures crypto and rohan co-founder and the ceo of dapp labs and barrio uh the co-founder of ygg so thank you thank you guys for joining our panel so our first will give let's give us uh everyone uh several minutes to give a self introduction uh i think it still started from yet hi there a great pleasure to be here my name is yat um as co-founder and chairman of animoko brands we're a company that is very focused on

basically building digital property rights through non-fungible tokens we have our early beginnings to thank for you know roham's work with uh cryptic kitties which was really sort of how i think most of us started in a space and actually we became a publisher of cryptokitties actually i was i was looking back in january of 2018 which is kind of insane how long ago that seems now which is pretty awesome um and since then uh just to fast forward you know we've really doubled down in that space from 2018 onwards we've made over 80 investments um but we also but we are not really an investor in the sense that we don't have a fund um our most high sort of well-known portfolios uh xc infinity um openc

obviously also you know with flow and dapper labs bitsky wax and a whole bunch of others but our own projects are the sandbox f1 delta time you know the rev ecosystem quit gaming and a whole bunch of other things as well so we view ourselves really as someone that's helping to build up the sort of the open metaverse and the open asset ecosystem thank you hi everyone herbie i'm a partner at the ibc infinitive interest crypto which is essentially the crypto arm of the largest uh japan based venture fund we we are pretty new found and this crypto army is essentially built

together with cp group from thailand and also uh the soft bank china's family um we are betting very happily into uh game fine space and you know like we also do general defy and some of the more fundamental fundamental layer protocols as well um we wish you know uh that we could you know bring some of the angles on and our insights to help some of the great companies and great entrep entrepreneurs to really lend into asia and really to you know empower them to expand there awesome hey everybody my name is rohan garagosa i'm the co-founder and ceo of the apple labs uh the after labs as you

heard uh yeah say we're the original developers of cryptokitties we wrote the first non-fungible token standard back in uh summer 2017. but more recently i mean our company's mission is to bring a billion people uh to to blockchain and sort of let them experience the benefits of decentralization and so we've gone fully mainstream and uh and for the last year and a half two years been building nba top shot on top of the flow blockchain and and that's uh something i'd love to talk to everyone about today um hi everyone uh i'm beryl i'm uh i'm the co-founder of yield guild games looking after finance um so yield guild games is a is a gaming guild um it functions as a

it's structured as a decentralized autonomous organization uh we invest in a number of uh plate to earn uh nfts uh and uh we look into leasing them out uh to our community of players uh yeah and um we're looking into uh you know investing in more play to earn games uh we've invested in more than ten games um as of today uh so some of them would be f1 delta time sandbox splinterlands nifty island ember sword yeah and we have a number of more games that we're currently looking at i'm evan a co-founder of genies genies is the world's largest avatar technology

company uh we're driving the adoption of avatars through society and culture we give away for celebrities to enter the metaverse through our avatar agency where you'll frequently see celebrities like justin bieber shawn mendes rihanna and others posting their genie as a way to express themselves in the metaverse and later this year in partnership with dapper labs we are launching a avatar wearable marketplace where customers can buy nfts of avatar wearables to equip their genie so we for example we need we could buy a spacesuit related to ip that genius works with those ip holders for to equip your genie and then use it across the genies api and sdk network

for example we're integrated into giphy right now which lets you use your genie across tick tock instagram snapchat and so forth and we're excited to continue leading a decentralized avatar standard and continuing to build out what we're doing on the flow blockchain and offering um avatar wearables as nfts where we're nfps with utility okay thank uh thank you guys uh yes i think i also i'm kai from ascending capital so uh we are we're investing in new moca uh deb labs uh and uh genius as well so let's get into the uh target today so metaphors has a very long history of

decades and also uh the concept of nft can track back to 2017 with the bond of today's very hot crypto punks and also cryptokitties however until last year that uh we know that the nba top shot by dab labs and flow and and the roadblocks finally bring this true concept to general populations and also merging the start to merging the the the crypto world and the real world together and just recently as we know that the plate to earn in x infinities and also the famous skill the ygg is lead us to a new way of

play and collaborations in this new digital and virtual world i think today we know that as we think that avatars and ft's game fight everything is super hard uh so we would like to discuss uh uh discuss uh especially in each panel each guest is opinion that would where are we now is that the crypto and everything in the metropolis in the characteristics and also what would be the future looks like with this uh such a over i think a lot of people believe this is very big things happens uh okay so the first question because we are

talking about talking about the metaverse so there's the first question is how to identify and differentiate a metaverse versus like today's like no matter an open games or open platform or even like people are talking about the super apps uh so we still start from yet okay yeah no problem um so so um very briefly i actually don't really consider the metaverse as something that is strongly differentiated versus you know a platform or a game because ultimately we think of a metaverse as a place where we share virtual space the only thing is is that the current sort of virtual spaces be it facebook or

be it sort of roadblocks are very imperfect ones right um you know it's it's uh the shared spaces in history whether these were medieval kingdoms of time or we were run by dictators in history were also shared spaces but they were just very imperfect and not very good for the people that were living there so i think the way they would think of you know maybe the the right kind of metaverse the kind of place is the kind of place we really want to be right which has to be sort of free and open and interoperable and so i think you know with blockchain now we're seeing that evolution where we're basically moving from you know primitive uh primitive meta verses as it were i mean i i used to play multi-user dungeons back in the late 80s right i bought my

first virtual item i think maybe in 91 from from a mud called perilous realms and that space was you know i was texting and chatting you know and making making commands literally on the keyboard go left go right right but it was as real to me as as the virtual plane is right now or as a physical one because i made real friends i made real connections i had fun and i value the assets even though they were entirely tech space so as far as i was concerned that that meta plane was just as real to me it's just you know maybe a more strong visual experience but at the end of the day you know we don't really own that space and i think i think we're still early but uh maybe you know how to differentiate i think for me the differentiation is really

about what is the place that is actually really fair to you and your time is where i think um the kind of metaverses we want to be and and to blockchain and non-fungible tokens and i'll leave it with that thanks ruby i pretty much agree with what y'all just said about it um i mean like for for us at the current stage you know like some of the super super apps and you know platform business just like facebook like roblox they're like still like very primitive metaverse um if you really have to say a real like a differentiation you know with a you know with a with a perfect world um the ideal situation is something that i was

thinking the interoperability you know for now like a lot of the primitive metaverse they are like super close ecosystem for example say you know your identity in different games or your identity on facebook or on roblox or on you know instagram snapchat you know it they're like they just stay within the within the app within their own platform it can't be you know transfer it can't be you know using uh it can be transferable to other places so that actually doesn't really reflect your entire profile um so i mean um so so that the the and and that's actually something we were thinking

um that's something really fascinating about crypto and about blockchain technology itself it really helps with the improvement of interrupt you know to make everything like more interoperable and um and and more you know transparent and to really have people to to to own their like own profile and their own personal data and etc so yeah that's some of my personal opinion on that yeah i want to just pick up on that because i think that's what's most interesting here is that because of blockchain all the lines between these kind of categories are being completely blended right and it's up to the

customer to decide hey what what do i want to do with my thing and if i want to put a an nft if i want to just take the nfc and trade it on the marketplace i can do that if i want to put it on my genie and show it off on twitter or tick tock or take it to top shot or or whatever that's my choice and in a sense all these different platforms can uh read the ownership on the blockchain um and can can have a more um a sort of platform a way to coordinate with each other that's free of platform risk um as opposed to the current sort of setup between uh between the different um tech giants and so that that's what i think is most interesting here is sort of taking the breaking those walls down i'm basically

putting power both in the hands of customers as well as potentially independent developers that can build um tool sets on top of on top of these products you know right now 20 30 companies are built on top of nba top shot and i bet they're all going to integrate genies the the second they can get their hands on uh you know what that what the metadata standard and all these things look like and so and that that's powerful because you know that's an ecosystem that can get uh it's sort of organic and it doesn't rely on us or or our companies to to sort of exist and then compound and be successful i think evan you can go yeah go ahead

okay so going off of what rohan said that we view let's say an open game or a super app as one component within a metaverse rather than an independent metaverse that we're striving to get to a point where there is interoperability new ownership models and the ability to remix ownership so what does that mean you buy an nft of an avatar wearable on genius you modify it you can then resell it which means that you're inheriting the ownership or the copyright from who you bought it from adjusting it and reselling it on you're then able to put that on your genie use it in top shot use it in another game use it in genies use it on tick tock

wherever that might be so we view nfts or the blockchain as powering a new dimension of ownership that was never possible in the physical world like yes you could always go and buy a t-shirt in a store modify it and resell it but that really wouldn't be practical there would be no profit merger no ability to do that so the blockchain in crypto is empowering what people have dreamed of for a long time in a new way that enables everyone to be creative together and reach new frontiers so i guess like everyone really summarized it uh very well um and i do agree that it's uh it's really about interoperability um about like real

ownership um in this new realm or world but you know um when i first heard about like the metaverse and um you know the rise of nfd uh gaming uh the first impression i have is you know a niels defense's uh stephenson's book of snow crash um as well as you know uh uh wrecked ralph right so wreck-it ralph um is um a character and you could actually interoperate at this particular avatar um with other um economies right and platforms and so uh i envision um the metaverse to be a different world or a different realm where anyone can actually go and coexist with other inhabitants right so um whether you're anonymous um pseudonymous

um you're still able to really spend time and really live in this new new world so um we at ygg see the metaverse as a place to uh live uh live where you can actually uh work um and have jobs and um to to earn a living as well um in in this new realm cool i think uh we already see that every uh guests have such a uh deep insight of the metaverse so everyone actually answered a lot of things about my second question it makes me very embarrassing so my second question actually we already mentioned that uh the roblox as a i mean as a currently as

an ancestor of the metaverse has own economies and all and also facebook and other giants are looking into this area try to build their own metaphors so we always wonder that uh based on the crypto and nft what will be the difference and what will extra things we can add on this matter verse uh i think that autocad because all the guests is covers a lot of uh i mean the ideas about this ones so maybe we can quickly give i mean from about back to from barrier and even back to that everyone can give some like highlights what kind of one or two opinions you think it's most important

uh for the difference just some highlights yeah let's go for bearer first uh yeah sorry can you rephrase the question so uh the difference uh the difference between yeah i think i think that my question is uh so what will be the metaverse with crypto and nft uh no matter compared to the metaphors from the current internet giant like facebook or roadblocks what would the difference looks like um and another thing we can emphasize is what will be crypto and ft uh will be at on this metaphors

so at least for us here at like ygg when we actually uh look into investing in a lot of these like nfd assets and games we really look into the component of um you know real ownership of these particular assets uh uh you know uh these assets should be able to trade um they're some sort of uh land economy um and um you know being able to play a particular game and earn a living so um we also emphasize the ability to uh you know like um when because the assets

are actually theirs they should be able to own most of the earnings uh within the platform so when they use their nfts uh within the game uh you know they should actually earn most of the proceeds as compared to for example roblox um the roblox uh you know the roblox application uh takes most of the proceeds whenever they actually trade a particular asset so it's very different from uh nfcs um in a sense because if i actually own this this particular asset and i i trade it uh with somebody else i i get most of the pro scenes uh so that is the the the biggest difference that i see uh between uh metaverse or platon games uh and uh play to earn nfts versus uh a

platform like roblox on genies we're working on decentralized ownership and as rohan mentioned we're removing platform risk so the user owns the underlying asset and it can take it between platforms can create remixes and they're owning it they can make derivatives or an income from those derivatives and so forth so when you look at the ecosystem the genius is building the that your avatar becomes your virtual representation of yourself in a way that's not possible in the real world phoenix makes avatars fantastical so we're not trying to make a one-to-one

representation of you but rather we're enabling you to be whoever you imagine you might be whether that means we're going to be selling for example avatar wearables of spirit animal helmets or you could be a frog a lion a tiger whatever it might be so that becomes you and you know you own it as opposed to having an avatar or some other digital representation in a closed platform like a roblox where you'll be holding to that company you can then buy additional avatar wearables and maybe in the future there can be interoperability between avatar standards so you can buy an avatar wearable from genies and mix it in with what another avatar company is selling ip owners can enable derivatives to be

bond and on and onward so it's really becoming a foundation of that you own yourself in the real world we're enabling you to do that in the meta earth or in the virtual world while in a free-to-play game for example that wouldn't be as possible because you're ultimately a customer for the company that's producing the game um i'll take a the thing i want to highlight is is just accessibility i mean if you think about it facebook um you know fortnite all of these platforms of course have uh internal economies um but those economies are sort of they're they're fully controlled by their the reason they exist is because those platforms have lock-in and the trust of

their users but with nfts the trust kind of comes from the blockchain to an extent where you know even a developer that is is doesn't have a large following to start with can create something that's interesting and reach reach a community halfway across the world um that can come in and be able to you know adopt their um adopt their product um without any need for you know signing up for special kinds of payment systems etc etc and so it makes it incredibly accessible and that's what i'm most excited about trends that are started by you know designers or developers in in india going viral in japan and then crossing over to us nobody having to think about currency conversion nobody

have to think to think about um different sort of um uh banking systems etc not being compatible um and and in fact nobody have to think about well you know what happens if if this developer goes away because those assets are are permanent and potentially um can kind of remix into a wider universe that will eventually exist um you know today we have a few hundred thousand people uh using nfts um you know between kind of topshot and axi and these things um and what what happens when that's a few hundred million and you have millions of developers building products and tools for them and that's the world we're excited about um and i wanted to mention you know where as dapper labs we see our company's role as bringing

kind of new users into this ecosystem but we're the thing we're most excited about is is exactly this that it's so accessible for developers like all the people watching this to be able to create the next uh the next big product whether that lets people use their nfts which actually too few people are doing that or that creates new kinds of um nfts products and services and and i wanted to plug in our um little investment efforts since a couple of folks talked about that so dapper labs we recently set up a corporate venture fund beginning of this year around february march and we've made already 59 investments um just seeing incredible entrepreneurs all around the world very sort of international focus um from from

asia to africa to of course europe and north america so very much inviting folks that um that are interested in in this space to jump in now because um that's i think the biggest opportunity is accessibility to and also accessibility to building something big right not just a plug-in on roblox or a plug-in on facebook or something but something that can be independent but can start as something small and and kind of compound yeah i i really agree with the accessibility um this at this point and to add to add a few more points that uh especially with the current like play to

earn model you know is especially you know they're like getting super popular in southeast asia like another like emerging markets um we are actually for seeing um this model actually attracted a lot of the non-crypto users and through that they actually like you know helping a lot with the penetration of crypto adoption we could even probably foresee a potential um you know financial inclusion you know it might be like saying like uh quite big but uh you know some because a lot a lot often times like when we were talking about about crypto when we were talking about blockchain a lot of people like we were

thinking about like you know the some of the goals some of the you know spirit is really to bank the unbanked people right so we were thinking the right of such plate to earn trend can actually you know potentially facilitate with the financial payment with the crypto payment in southeast asia countries just like china you know as we chinese people we don't have a legacy of credit card so that the mobile payment can actually accelerate that fast and not getting that popular in in mainland china and you know get back to the get back to the question so um some of them some of the difference i

just say for you know platforms like like facebook like roblox not not probably not roblox but you know say like facebook um still like the in in the current like internet industry uh the user experience is actually like still super good for blockchain a lot you know like for some of the blockchain games or you know like they are not as smooth as the internet product yet uh and especially you know like for for for for companies like facebook they put a lot of efforts into vr and into a lot of the you know the the hardware development and etc um but uh it's not a conflict to each other it but instead it's more

complementary i'd say yeah great well i mean agree with everything that's been said here um so maybe maybe dialing it back a little bit into sort of ultimately what are we what's the difference between you know the facebook and the roblox's versus what everyone's building here and i think it boils down ultimately to who owns the data right if you sort of draw it back to it when we are actually using these platforms our most valuable resource which is our time because it is after all most scarce because it is limited for each and every one of us is actually farmed in the form of these data blocks which is perhaps the most valuable resource on earth and that resource is what powers you know the tech giants of today and they are the

reasons why they are trillion dollar organizations and everyone else is not so you know they're basically the problem is that the data that they're farming belongs entirely to them and because they've created these perfect parallels like great user interfaces we willingly gave up essentially all of our data to them and you know in many cases we don't understand it so the thing about nfts here you know broadly thinking with all the things that everyone is building here is they may be imperfect in the same way that democracy freedoms are imperfect right in fact some of us may prefer to live in a place where things are organized really well really controlled and everything is nice and smooth but we don't have rights in those places

because it is controlled by one person or by one entity or by one government it doesn't really matter choose the parallel you want right so it may seem like a seamless experience whereas if you live in something that's like a democracy or that respects your human liberties or your rights it's messy as democracies are but it gives power back to the end users and so that's the parallel and the power of what we think non-fungible tokens really need to be because as we spend time in these our time is rewarded through the ownership of this data that data then basically is shared across these communities and these data can then be used in many ways whether this is in games like axe infinity with play to earn or sandbox through owning pieces of land or mba top

shot with sort of assets i'm creating who owns that data the data is actually owned by the end user completely the platform plays a role in facilitating it but it but it no longer controls everything around that so i think i think in this in this context we think this is the big big difference between facebook roblox or any one of those companies they are the kings of this sort of digital feudal environment and they will not want to give it up you know when mark zuckerberg said we're the next uh metaverse he can see the threat he understands what it is all about he can see his kingdom under attack and so he wants to control and i can't think of any king that has willingly given up his kingdom

so so um i think there's a fight coming along but i think um you know we're on the right side of this fight all of us here thanks uh i think uh time france very uh time flies so i will jump to uh quick questions uh two questions so first one i think today we we have to talk about the the the the gravity avatars crypto punks uh apes so would like uh my question will be will this be a new uh social symbols or entities and my question would be what do you think about what will be the reason that becomes so popular today and will be the future for this new trend it is a bubble it's all a

new social phenomena i think because at the limit of time i will leave this uh question for uh event because you are the experts of uh avatars and the genius who building the the super crew avatars and the heads up i think everybody should looking forward to the the online of genius apps as well and also this question for yvonne and herbie okay go ahead okay um so we view the ability to express yourself in a way that's not possible in the physical world as an enduring trend when you look back over time you can see that the tech industry has gradually been evolving to that whether you had an aim

or a yahoo screen name back in the day whether then you were able to create a fenced whether you were then able to express yourself in any way using a face filter on instagram or tick tock this is the natural evolution of that and board api club prove that and we see more and more nft projects coming out there being a way for people to express themselves as on with their twitter avatar um discord avatar so genius is taking that to the next level where we're creating an entire avatar system around this idea and it's not a single nft you're buying but you're buying a collection of nfts that then become your avatar you're able to remix them and you're able to resell them trade them and you're able to

really make it who you are so this gives you the ultimate way to assess who i am as a person in the digital and metaverse worlds i mean in in my opinion it's you know like it's expressing expressing ourselves is especially you know and your social status is something like within the human nature it's just like how you know you see how facebook how instagram they grow you know rft or you know some of the digital avatar some of the crypto editor just a new uh evolved version of such expression and it's just a new trend

as people still has the demand within their dna within within their blood yeah that's that's some of my opinion okay cool uh next question will be about x infinity we know that this is also a super phenomenal in uh in this year uh so the question will be for uh burial rohan and yacht so in i mean in your opinion what makes xc uh different compared to other games and the second one that's uh learning from xc what will be the key features that we should look into like for future blockchain games or

games that will design with more game fine mechanisms yeah go ahead i'm yeah happy to go first uh so there are two factors that uh in my opinion that make taxi uh really uh you know successful today um one is the economics of um axe infinity so uh it you know it does have uh a breeding component for these and then um it's uh governance token or um you know in-game the in-game rewards uh there's also a minting and a minting you know component and you also have to destroy uh these uh in-game rewards called smooth potion to be able to breed uh nfts right so um yeah the

economics actually worked because of of that and then the second part is although on the first part there's a lot of um uh there's still a room for improvement right but um it's one of the very first games that have actually like shown that an economics like uh taxi infinity uh kind of like works uh and the second uh factor i see is adoption so maybe um i can give you a little bit more context on um adoption so i'm from the philippines and uh there is actually a um you know during the pandemic exactly last year a lot of people have lost jobs i'm in the philippines um unemployment pre-pandemic in in the philippines was

already 23 uh before the pandemic and so due to lockdowns um in in the country um a number of people who had physical jobs and these are the likes of uh factory workers uh you know like factory workers uh you know like drivers uh you know taxi drivers uh you know have actually lost jobs and these people don't really have a lot of savings um you know in their bank accounts uh they don't even have a bank account and uh the pandemic has hit them really really hard because they're unable to provide for their families and now in a place like kabanatu and city where um they've seen the first um rise of axe

infinity and you know like it really spread uh really quickly uh within this uh this area in the philippines um you know there's like an entire family that had one mobile phone with internet connection and they invested to buy three nfts to be able to play the game x infinity and they were doing night shifts to be able to actually earn a living um through earning by playing the game spending time playing the game and earning this in-game rewards called smooth love potion and they're able to convert smooth love potion um with this uh crypto exchanges into fiat and they're able to actually put food on the table even like milk for their kids and um

like babies right and it's become a phenomenon because uh people were desperate uh to make a living and to actually you know buy food and uh yeah it spread really really quickly because um right now people start cashing out uh between you know 400 dollars to a thousand dollars in one month and that's much more than the minimum wage in the philippines which is 200 and so if you actually choose should i actually stick to my old job which is physical labor right um you know working under the sun almost the entire day for 200 versus just staying at home you know i'm safe from coved

from the pandemic and i actually earn more from playing games um it's much more uh it's you know they would choose it over uh any time right because it's much more appealing so i guess like um for metaverse games or you know play to earn games um it needs to have that particular component uh of uh you know providing that incentive through you know if i spend time um into something um i also should get rewarded uh for something um i think that was a really important component uh for you know the adoption of uh play to earn games particularly for emerging markets um like the philippines um latin america

africa some parts of india uh so there that's my opinion um yeah maybe i'll just quickly add a few things um so i think for you know actually has been obviously a tremendous success and i think the maybe just a high level it's really the successful combination of combining essentially capital and labor which is really what we see in the real world right uh where people who can own these digital assets may not have the time to actually generate reward from that right um because they can't so they don't have the time but they've got money and are not willing to employ or outsource or revenue share with those that have the time but don't have the capital and we see this happening you

know in the real world today whether it's people renting real estate whether it's people you know driving you know other people's cars or whatever that is right that sort of employment labor type market has essentially been replicated in acts infinity and many other play-to-own games but i think what's now interesting is that rather than necessarily looking at axiory infinity as the particular role model because all of them are evolving what's really happened now is that axiom infinity has created essentially you know a billion dollars of overall asset wealth all of them generated by people who have generated much more money than they have ever before from the context of the philippines for instance of venezuela right they're sitting on you know basically almost like six-month bonuses right equivalent from their incomes what do

they do well they actually are now looking at other platoon games and looking at other platforms as well and emerging and hunting for new deals and so on in the same way that you know if you remember all the people who walk out from you know their banking days and they have like you know six-month bonuses or one-year bonuses they go what do they do they don't just squirrel it away in some savings account they go spend right they go spend or invest and do stuff so there's a real renaissance really across all play to earn type of games is currently happening as a result of really sort of ax infinity generating this incredible wealth and so the opportunity i think is still evolving in terms of what is the right model uh because i think we're just so early i mean this you know there's there's not even

two million people that own nfts if that at all right in the world but but uh but but they've really sort of them sort of shown that you know it's kind of i describe it as like the angry birds moment for for blockchain gaming and uh and um and now everyone else is looking into space so so a lot lots more will happen um in that area so so so it's not just the way that x infinity does it new innovations will happen very quickly we think yeah go ahead and go ahead yeah i mean 100 um uh it's agree with everything that's been said in the sense that you know in the future if you spend your time you should get something uh

worth it i just want to caution folks and actually the biggest thing to me that um actually also showed through their move to ronin um which is the you know a low um low fee um sort of side chain um it showed the power of of you know a low fee environment for games and it's relatively uh straightforward uh thing to sort of you know consider but um you know cryptokitties has been running on ethereum where it costs you know nearly a hundred dollars to to bring cats sometimes um i don't today might be even more um and and the console you move that same uh sort of experience where people can play to earn

and compete and show off status etc but in a low fee environment where they're not wasting money on gas i think it's very powerful i just want to make sure folks that our developers out there have a an eye towards sustainability and the idea that if someone is paying for something they should ideally be getting um some social value some enjoyment some entertainment out of it um because you know if if if people are if everybody's playing a game simply to make money and sort of chasing gains um that the music is going to stop at some point and and and you know especially when you know you're talking emerging economies etc um the hope is that folks have been um

economically conscious uh the whole time but but sometimes that's not um that's not uh that's not straightforward so i think we as developers building on emerging technology have some sort some whatever responsibility to shape um where we want um where we want things to go and and whether it's in token economy design etc we need to pay attention to sustainability awesome okay due to limited time limited we have to jump to our uh last questions so i think uh because our title is the crypto and the nft metaphors uh present and the future

so i would like would i ask our guests that looking to the future uh what will be the metaverse looks like in your mind uh especially that it comes from the web 3 civilization uh and the march marching to the general populations so could you give like a very uh short uh discriminations what would be looks like in your mind i think we start with yachts thanks this is such a this is such a big question but anyway i guess i'll i'll start with two right um that i think first of all you know there's like you know most of the world is playing games today so we

can complete you know 2.7 million people play games so the expectation we should really see is that the whole metaverse is basically now all of games are going to be sort of like moving to true meta verses you're only going to want to play a game in which your time is rewarded at the end of the day and where you own your own assets so so that to us is like like a like an inevitable trend as far as far as we're concerned and the second thing i think that will also happen is the overall financial knowledge and sort of financiification of games and meta versus if you will will sort of broaden and create an entirely new um sort of new economic revolution overall you know sort of delivering trillions and trillions of new value and new economic opportunity

if you think of what x infinity is doing more people in the philippines have a wallet on ronin with slp than a credit card as an example it's just an early beginning but what are actually most of our children doing today they're playing games those children are going to be playing those kind of games they're going to learn about financial value they're going to know about yield they're going to know about debt or not to have it they know how to make investments by the time they go to college if they even have to go or want to go to college have a portfolio you know it's ridiculous as far as i'm concerned that our children are learning about you know not learning about finance in school and that the first experience for most of us actually is debt which is an equivalent of servitude indentured servitude if you

will right it's a horrible experience and i think it creates sort of the way that we think of the world in terms of value and money when we start our experience with debt so i think that will change because of nfts and blockchain that's why we're so excited about it and the whole metaverse will hopefully develop into a much better space because of it i mean like as an investor i don't think i'm smart and visionary enough to really answer that question let's just see like how everything evolves and you know like uh we'd love to back and stand with the most resilient and product driven

and you know people who can actually like evolve and grab to grab to grab the right opportunities in the market and to really like empower them with the right resources and you know let just help them accelerate and expand globally especially you know like with the current crypto industry the the fascinating stuff is that everything's so global you know you need everything like from not only like china us but also you know some other like countries like korea like japan right like south asia or even africa um and with with we're gonna you know try our best to help our portfolio help those great funders not to be you know

bugged with bugged by you know the the government or you know the licensing stuff we're going to help handle with that as well so yeah that's something like we think as as an investor that we something we should do yeah i love that um i just want to say you know the the the future is going to be really exciting but i would i would encourage everybody to be focused on the present because things are moving super super fast um the last sort of you know eight months of this year have been pretty pretty much like eight years has happened um and and i think that you know the next year or so it's going to be going to be really fast as well and the reason is it's all software you know

we we already have billions of phones of people's pockets to yad's point billions of people already spend time and money and uh an energy and they their identity is tied into digital worlds whether it's on facebook or inside fortnite um and so the world is kind of ready for this moment right now and it's kind of power to the people and i think it's going to happen really really quickly um so so you know see you this time next year so um on my end i'd like to see more options like more games where you know i could uh that actually meet different interests for example or if i'm upward in in the mood for you know up something else then you know i could actually just like jump into

another game to another game right it'll be great to see more interoperable games as well so if i get i get to buy like my own nfts i get to use it in other game economies uh that would be awesome um yeah and i think like uh with what ronan actually said uh earlier it's also important uh to to see games that focus on sustainability that have sustainable game economies i think it's going to be interesting to see how the metaverse leads to more people becoming creators because as multiple people here have mentioned that you're it oh it diversifies the base of who's able to create and it makes the bar for being a creator much lower just

like aws or any cloud computing enabled a new generation of companies who couldn't previously set up their own server farm is that there's crypto nfts in the metaverse going to enable a lot more creators who come from a lot more places whether that's making your own game making playable characters making avatar wearables um making other experiences and how will things shift from like core gaming into wider industries when will the metaverse reach a billion people two billion people and how will that fundamentally affect society cool cool thank you uh i think a bigger due to long time limited thanks thanks every guys uh

thanks to everyone that we have great panels and i think that's all for today thank you thank you everybody thank you bye thank you bye