Docusign Protocol with Onchain Signatures: Introducing SIGN by ETHSign

Transcript

welcome back to the rollup High Roller Community as always nothing on the rollup is to be construed as Financial advice we are just an Educators in the defi space toss us a quick like give us a share a repost send it to a friend who may want to watch this and finally give us a sub or a follow it means the world to help support credibly neutral educational content in def5 we're here to educate Empower and enrich you and let's jump in GM GM welcome back to the roll up going on today we have the co-founder the intern the CEO himself at Ean um and E side just to give a little bit of background and then we'll we'll kind of

get into the weeds here uh e sign is like what I thought of as a very intuitive application of blockchain Technology when I was first getting involved this is this is the the uh the innovator on Doc you sign this is the ability to sign anything and everything on chain so maybe you could give us a little bit more background as far as like what what the origin story is maybe you had a similar Epiphany um why is it important to sign things on chain um and and generally man how how your uh how your feeling in 2024 and uh as we as we jump in here uh thanks thanks Robbie that's a good question so uh I guess I will start with a a a brief intro and

about the idea idea of um is in the very very beginning I think ideas keep changing but in the very beginning it's actually pretty simple and also uh strong so I think so for me like before I was a I I found an eign so basically I am a venture capitalist and I um I'm being curious into this uh things I've been investing all the public uh infrastructures like you know there's a lot of bunch of blest right there a lot of usian killer back in like um uh 17 18 19 so I'm than thinking on when I when I think of like building a new product building new things I'm thinking of

intuitively I think the applications right so right now I think the infrastructure is getting more and more mature that's for sure right we have public chain we have indexing protocols we have uh oracles and all that stuff and so the time come to 2021 when I when me and my co-founders are ready to um do a startup so we're than you for okay what to build actually we think of uh we we did we made our mind to do this startup then would think of the ideas right and back then the the most popular ones are Defi and um MTS but I don't I'm I'm thinking uh so we are we need to find something like more uh useful in long term like a fundamental uh

blockchain use cases so uh I think crypto signing like is definitely one of them basically crypto currency give everybody a wallet which is a perect key right so and the fundamental use case of perect key is that you can use it as to sign everything and sign Contra is definitely something more serious in the life and uh we uh we just think if we can if we can make it uh easier we can make it more uh secure so the idea for EA is like we're using per key to generate legally binding legal binding signatures so no one can fors them and also uh we use per key to uh encrypto contract so no one uh see them there's no perect uh concerns and most

importantly uh so so so this is a PDF signed by eign and you just direct the PDF to the website you can see all the freeprints foodprints which is like um uh youa me a international blockchain scan stuff that's a that's amazing idea between beforei and I would say um it's been a while like two years ago uh we we start this and after four or five iteration right now this is already a premature product which right now we're providing services to more than 300 users 300K users and already integrated with telegram on line so right now you're you use you can use uh e within the mo aut the

mobile messaging apps and also we integrated with SAS which is Singapore digital ID official digital ID so U there's no the issues um yeah so that's uh well so we're B Bas basically thinking what's the next step how can we uh provide more um bu make it more strong like can provide more uh things which our with the application with a with a with a with a back end with the architecture we already built so um that that's what we're working right now epic that's awesome and like the the idea of signing something with your wallet and your private key I

think is so powerful that it let it cannot be understated like this unlocks a whole series of use cases that I think are just kind of like still like ideas and they haven't quite been built yet and the the process of signing and proving something on chain is very very powerful like I'll tell you a quick story I uh I was part of a a hackathon in 18 in Washington DC and it was kind of around like using blockchain in politics and in government and at the time or a couple years later there was like a lot of confusion around like the legitimacy of some of the voters in the elections so I was thinking like well the the current system we have right now

isn't perfect right like we have these things on our phones like we can send text we can send messages to everyone why don't we just everyone about the votes right if we're not happy about something that you know is going on in Washington DC like the government is like at least the America is supposed to be for the People by the people let's ask the people these questions and then have people just sign the message on their phone to to answer these questions and to me it seems so easy because everyone has a phone and now with blockchain technology and digital signatures we're able to prove that I don't so I don't need to use my social security number I can prove something is

by using my digital signature and this is something that is is possible now with blockchain technology where we can prove the legitimacy of these signatures so there's so many applications like that is just one idea but the the opportunity that the technology provides in like to to do these digital signatures is very very powerful um so what are some of the use cases that you're seeing you mentioned you know people can use it on telegram they can use it on these messenging messenger applications what are some of the use cases that you've seen is there like a certain like set of contracts that you tend to like see the pattern that people

are using it for for these reasons or generally what what is what is kind of the the categories that that people are using eign uh to send these digital signatures on chain um so so for now we're observing people using EA mostly um three stuffs so firstly um uh crypto startup internally operations like hiring people or sign M NDA and that kind of stuff or the second the is like uh when people hosting events like heckerson or like um they're pring something where they are launching some new um campaign or launching some new um like like stuff

they they need they show something to the community and they sign still was those startup but the C tier we're Ober we observing is like a lot of people on telegram actually telegram users they're using eign for some small business uh stuff like Yoga online procs stuff because on our platform we don't really uh curate like too many too much scenarios so just people it's just plan like contract signing stuff you don't worry about the all the security and privacy stuff and uh yeah so that's by far where what we see and and how does the integration with the Singapore digital I work so uh so basically like so we're trying to con connect more ID so uh in

terms of did is just not you know just decentral ID people should be able to use whatever digital ID to use their identity to size stuff like to to express their consent over something right so so we're trying to be we're trying to integrate it as much ID any as possible possible um especially like a uh part for like s pass so right now how you use it is like being the setting page there's a there's a button called eqc and you can connect your different IDs like so for S pass uh it's like it's a it's a oos that provided by Singapore government so you just oos the thing and you connect your s pass with your wallet

so basically you can you can do it and your sign contract you you will show like singot your sing pass like ID back back there and when you're dragging the contract to the verifier you still see the S pass and we're doing the same thing was a r by Po from Paulo and researching same thing was a UPI in India very very cool I had a conversation with uh uh Bryce from ethereum attestation service and we were talking about some of the opportunities here like when you connect your your kyc information to the blockchain there's kind of like there's very different perspectives on it you know some of the Privacy maximalists are going to say no like don't connect your

your identity to the blockchain I think there's like there's reasons to do to keep it private and then there's reasons to keep it uh to keep it Public public is going to be more convenient private is obviously going to be more more private um and then you know like like one of the use cases that we saw was like let's take like the identity aspect of like our age you know like let if if I walk into a bar I can't order a drink unless I'm 21 years old so if I show the bouncer my ID now the bouncer knows my address they know my they have to get my date of birth like that's the piece of information that I want to I want to attest but I also have to attest to all the other information

that's on my ID I can't just provide that one piece of information but when each of these uh these attestations are like mod and they're like each their individual piece of information I can just attest each of those one at a time and I don't have to bundle up all of those attestations together into like my entire life story that I have to tell this bouncer to order a drink yeah exactly um I think I think I'm um sure on blockchain we're doing things in different ways so because it's a permissionless environment so be careful to attest too much like P data there I think most of testation just like you're testing you're basically

connecting uh the centralized sensitive data um the hash of the access data to address or something basically just you people can verify the real data option but people will know it's it's real it's authentic that's that's good enough and the interesting part for um I would say web three or tast station where uh the new system is about you can use different IDs people can have multiple IDs and use multiple ID on multiple different stuffs so um that's that's the interesting part and uh yeah we're we're still like building infrastructures and seeing there's more applications coming up yeah yeah the the uh the concept of access like it it would be very uh

painful for someone to provide their their information on chain but then have it's actually a l painful I would say the the thing is like you need to interesting application right so um so uh we're also um thaning for building a op chain like Omni chain a testation protocol basically we allow people to test their own data with a tary or or like they get proofs like XM basically people attest their uh thing for a reason and so you you going to have incentive right so uh say can use it on on n on marketing say u a per that they want to attract like like um I'm tring uh Pro Traders proex Traders right so as

long as you are you attach yourself at by trading volume or um your successful trading strategy you'll get like 50% KET and stuff so it's still like like the incentive stuff application stuff so as long as we have good of application where use cases people will test their uh identity for sure right yeah the painful part is when uh app ation or entities start to restrict access because of certain information but that'll happen on a on a on a centralized uh platform or a decentralized platform that's that's up to the entities that are restricting that access um and I I do like how you know ethereum is permissionless and in a

permissionless environment uh it's much more likely that you can supply different information and you're able to resist censorship than in some of these other centralized platforms so so yeah by Pro by connecting that uh that decentralized identity to a decentralized platform I think there's a lot more access and a lot more opportunities um and then there was one other one other point that you mentioned there uh which was um kind of like building these applications um and I think this is kind of like where where sign protocol comes in because now there's attestations and you even mentioned like axioms uh that are stting to like get proven on chain so what's the thesis for sign protocol you know

how is it how's it similar and how is it different from e sign like where do you where do you see e sign going or where do you see sign protocol going yeah so on so e sign is application right so basically um a lot people use like is like three you guys see in three parts so first thing we allow people use their whatever I digital ID to sign a contract that's the that's a that's a structured data where sign basically is a the file is attachment and you're actually signing the the files hash and temp and then we store them into the Central Storage so people can indexing and verify the the signature that's that's a sart and um sign prod is a natural extension to it because we're thinking

of how can we scale how can we extend e to more scenario so basically we we abstract the the middle part which is the contract part so people don't really need a like PDF file people can people can like create their own schemas and test test uh uh informations but them uh like what basically you whatever format say um like um I think on ES is very strong on schemas are like U uh kyc um like uh uh proof of fun that kind of thing so that's the typical um attestations and we're think of so we I think we're think of more to allow user

to test their own data by uh integrating with a lot of TS not Solutions because uh um so so basically I think we really spent a lot of time on this so basally I think the idea for a open n testation um like protocol is like people can use um their people can attach their own data that's a cool idea and how we achieve it is like through TS not and what is TS TS not is like so traditionally if you want to get a proov of fund you go to the bank right so bank will sign a letter says like you have how much token uh for how much money right but right now since we already

have like online banking on the website and the information in the website is directly conf from the server the bank server so if in that sense if we um have a Chrome extension or something to capture the data say the on with your online banking website and the balance there's a parameter is directly sent from the bank's server that can also prove you have that much money right so so that's the the the technology to verify all the signatures and stuff this called TS notary so basic we are think of utilizing TS notary and the other de proof technology to gener proves so user

can passest their own data right and we trying to do it not yet in that serious way because serious means like less people going to use it hly and so we're thinking um to expand it to like say um hey I'm building a game and I want to attract like real Gamers so if you guys attest yourself like for like steam gaming hours if you pass s hours it give you a a silver pass if you pass 10,000 to give you a golden pass in the very beginning that kind of thing right so you basically you can't literally test anything and also we we can also like curate or conduct like vampire TCH right so say um we can attach we we can people

we create basic create schema create TS not for people to attach their two users and wi web we can get them token ask incentive uh if you on board and keep using um Step work contributing to the website uh ecosystem you are you are eligible to keep locking or claim your token like is there a uh like a or like a proofing mechanism that says like let's say I I attest that I'm 10 feet tall you know just like something ridiculous can I can I do that or is there like something that proves that I'm like not 10 feet tall or six feet tall or something like that you can you can always do it but

the problem is like nobody going to believe it right so because a test station is like where the idea interact was to your state was your with your claim right so I think um so what the TS not basic is still proof the data is sent from the server right the say binance.com like coinbase.com still from server and the trust come from the idty now like if like people are randomly used there and like nobody knows like the addresses to attest things is actually not that easy for people to use the data it's basically just it's a test station but it's not not valuable I would say so so we that the thing we're trying to do is we're trying to connect as much as possible digital ID say um

where even D we can intergrate with Ds so you can test what's your U what's your what's your website domain right say um so we can ATT we can use e sign. XYZ to attach something so say who's our team member that cust very cool very cool and I I can see how this this ATA state uh primitive touches so many narratives like I I think the red approach is going with digital IDs and at theing to to to digital items and and uh criteria and then I could see how like the real world asset narrative comes intoo as the the

rwa ecosystem becomes a little bit more vibrant I could see how like you know atting at testing that you have let's say you know however much money in a bank at you know at Chase or JP Morgan or something let's say I I could attest that then I could borrow against that onchain and then we could like have some very interesting like real world asset collateral with onchain debt and vice versa the same thing with some of these eign contracts like let's say that like the deed to my house I sign with eign then I could use that it like as an nft and then I can borrow against it and I can like get a mortgage on my house on shame and the possibilities are endless

like any any uh invoice right is like an uh like a receivable and then I have like a like a recurring Revenue stream uh that I can use to go sell or I can borrow against it or I can do all kinds of like funky def things because the the contract itself uh is now onchain and composable with the rest of onchain Finance yeah so I I think that that the core idea of the test station and why way what we're saying uh as test Maxi is like right now if we're building more applications if we're we're where where where we're pushing with the the BL adoptions so basically we need but we

need more material on chain but what's on chain right now it's all transactions it's all like people lending from a a pool people adding the pool people swapping tokens that's simply not enough right so say say if we are building if we want to build a uh low low clal uh rate lending protocol you need like that right you need like proof like you need all kind of stuff if you want to build social F apps you need people more identity from onchain or offchain right so uh so basically attestation is a gateway to allow people to attest all kinds of data to blockchain so that's a that's an interesting part that's we why we see

test station is a very important um infrastructure to the whole web3 world is like that's that's a key point and there's a there's a actually today I talked to a friend there's a very interesting idea to build a Anonymous chatting lab uh based on a test stations so basically it's like um so when you open the chatting app you can see different text say uh I'm a holder of more than 100 to bitcoin I'm holder for uh what kind of ATS and the stuff so basically you you go to different tax to attest you are you you fulfill the criteria of this tax and you will join different channels with all kind of people have same like tax and uh you don't know who you are uh but uh I you

know you guys within the group chat everybody is have a holder more than 100 Bitcoins that's enabled by this attach station because basically allow to attach not just option data but also onine data all yes I I got one more question for you as we kind of wrap up here um and this is kind of a fun one so let like we can end on this like we've been seeing inscriptions the inscriptions on like all of these chains sometimes so many inscriptions that it it breaks some of these blockchains what's the difference between an attestation and an inscription yeah so uh inscription is like there's a it's a method you can put

uh data into blockchain uh Bitcoin block space so but attestation mean is a it's a way I will say it's a standard basically using identity to sign a structur data and then store the data into May different blockchains maybe like Bitcoins so you can in that sense you can see brc2 as a form of test station because brc2 have their own structure right so have like four uh parameters you just uh uh typing your data and with the priv with with the with the structure and sign in and send to blockchain is it's a it's incription right so inscription is like a reading or writing Bitcoin uh plus bace and a

testation is just it's a it's a it's a system that help you and there's help you write in help you uh put put your data into different formats so people can easy use it people can easy easy indexing it people can easily uh build like dabs on the top of it so I think that's the difference very cool awesome well thanks so much for coming on the channel this was a pleasure and I I feel like we're so early in attestations like like this is very based because we're it's like the L it's the raw material that the rest of these applications uses in their in their workflows and and in

their Technologies so without this data without these attestation in this material there wouldn't be any there wouldn't be any of these other things uh to there wouldn't be any transactions to make there wouldn't be any combinations of applications to make so very very cool very very based conversation thanks for coming on yes thanks Robbie