Digital Public Infrastructure

Transcript

[music] [music] Okay. >> Right. >> Excellent. We're being brought to to bring out the average age. >> Full room here. It's a full [laughter] room. >> Isn't that right? >> Yeah. This is a great [laughter] room. >> Sorry. >> It is. >> Ah, we are here. >> This is a lot easier, right? No, this this is Oh, this thing is >> Yes. Yes. Sorry. Sorry. Denver's in charge right?

>> Yeah. [laughter] I think we switched things around. I think Eric through throughout I think at one point you were the moderator, then I was supposed >> and then we went back and forth and then common sense prevailed and you're still the moderator [laughter] >> cuz you're the man in charge. So, we we'll >> I'll stop talking now. Sorry. Uh no like um thanks first of all thanks for making your time uh for today I think um um yeah you you came here all the way from Hong Kong for DevCon and uh yeah like have have seen you like I think I last saw you at GFF and GFF were you there at GF or were you there open

source summit? >> I was at something else before >> open source summit. Open source summit foundation open source summit. Yeah. Here >> yes in Mumbai. They're all in Mumbai. This is the year of Mumbai. >> Imagine my surprise like uh I I I go up to the open source summit. I I say I I I meet a white person who knows more about digital public and Indian digital public infrastructure than myself. And I'm like okay that's that's that's impressive right? And that's that's when I'm like okay one day I'm going to >> Chinese. >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. Well Chinese I'm I'm I'm a citizen of the world. I'm confused actually. Is that a better citizen to yourself?

>> Yes, exactly. >> So, [laughter] we're the we AI agent. >> Yeah. We are the oldest two people in this building right now. >> We are. >> Can we have a round of >> applause? A clap. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> Exactly. I think that's a round of surprise. >> Surprise. Yeah. >> That we're [laughter] up here. >> Anyway, sorry. Serious point. This is the last conversation, so we can be a little bit of course. Of course. >> Yes. Keep up. Um and then you also had u um >> this Mr. Jasmar and like uh he earlier insisted that I I think in the last hackathon you insisted that I call you jazz but yeah [laughter] it's it's it's hard to get around to to to >> I'm becoming privacy focused.

>> Oh okay. >> So now I'm just >> now you're just okay. >> Nobody can weaponize. >> Um but yeah thanks for coming. He he came in like right today from Delhi and then I think he's coming he's going back tonight as like the most uh >> extreme panelist that we have for the day. Uh >> at my age [laughter] >> I I honestly I don't see the age thing. So like I really don't see like uh like yeah like I think you have had more energy than many uh many today. So like yeah I that's >> you have to make up for the time you've left. You got to get a lot of energy for the last bit. Anyway, >> yeah, but let me u get to the meat of it right um now um Julian like I want to know a little bit more about like you

know how did you get involved with like India specific DPI um space like um you know you you were probably already at the Linux foundation and then you started getting into it or how how did that come about? >> So I'm old so this could be a very long story. [laughter] No. So, so in terms of technology, I've been in technology pretty well all my working life, right? I worked for I started my life in banking, right? Uh HSBC, others building large trading systems and that and then I went in I bought I joined um actually I find a core banking solution. They sent me back to Hong Kong where I was born. That was uh 95 way back. Then I worked for HP um in the old Luplax day.

HP was an amazing company and actually they were setting up here in Bangalore. So I worked at back in the in 90s here a lot of work and then I worked with Sun and they were rolling out at that time core uh banking systems at that time banks here just ran on branches and they did the core centralized banking and here in India it was all done on Unix systems. So India you know lots of other countries rolled in AS400s and mainframes but India really had the expertise in the Unix to go out and develop these core and that's where emphasis came and that's where all whitro have you know all these these these core banking solutions that exist.

Do you think that that was the case any do you think there was any particular reason or just happened to be? >> Well, I think that well it's because this was a country of developers. I think the education system you know better at that time the education system here in India was rolling out engineers and experts and they you know in in the space I mean India is you know is a very and obviously I think it probably started in um in in um uh in um with with emphasis in all these companies right um and yeah it there were just the talent here right and also we started having global you know we had I always say I work first at Lloyd's bank this is why I tell a story you know people AI. I worked at Lloyd's Bank and um you know as a technologist literally 40 years ago

now um and we worked on IBM assembler. We have a meeting every day uh and we have a weekly meetings and we wrote everything up and then we send an envelope we go around the office and sign right [laughter] and then we had email and then we could communicate with stuff and then when I was less at Midland Bank and HSBC we then worked with people in Tata here globally and we suddenly you know the world just moved on and on and on. So technology so when they say AI is going to take away ro world we had new world work that never knew we had before the the extending the enterprise uh and uh all these kind of things was done yeah and then obviously within the with the DPI um I'm not sure banking is a public but obviously we did the core banking

here but there has as I've been working with um uh with Linux foundation centralized trust we've been working closely uh in decentralized technologies which is what's happening with um Digi Archer people like Digi Archery ing that uh we have uh NPCI buil you know continuing the stack build to uh to CBDC's and then tokenization which is all using our technology and also what India is good it's the best place to test building this kind of technology at scale China does it as well but India is is has this this and India is also you know it's is wrapped up in the developers of the world right you go to Bangalore and you read JP Morgan City Bank Walmart so It's integrated.

>> Sorry, that was a long answer to a short question. [laughter] >> That makes sense. It It helps to get a little more background, but um yeah, just similar similar to you, uh uh Jazz, like how how did you start getting into this whole space? >> Yeah. So, when people ask me these questions, I know that they haven't done their homework on me. So, they say, "Why don't you do your own intro?" I love it. So, uh it's the end of the day. How many of you people want to hear us? >> Okay. Very good. Very good. How many of you people know the full form of DPI?

>> Uh, okay. Not bad. Yeah. >> And uh the you know really I mean you really want to hear like real real stuff. >> So we very helpfully wrote it out. Uh oh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. >> But but are you how many of you are interested in DPI? >> Okay. How many of you are tech? How many of you are not tech at all and you will be in 5 minutes from now. So yeah background uh I went to college in Ramraadik University of Bombay in 1994 and I graduated in majors in artificial intelligence. If you don't trust me you can go to Gulati Singh J on Twitter and

it's my pin tweet because I have to prove it every other hour that I did AI and I put my mark sheet up there for everyone to see and it says AI. It doesn't say data science or ML. And then I'm did some stint in TCS. Then Microsoft. I'm a lifer at Microsoft. And this is for you. >> Yeah. Uh somebody tell me how old is the first Xbox? Take a guess. Xbox. You know Xbox? >> 25 years. >> Yeah. So I got the world's first Xbox at Microsoft delivered to Neu place in Delhi because I got ICIC bank in Bombay to move away from Linux to Microsoft.

[snorts] >> Wow. >> No, but Linux but they they they it's all on it was on Solaris. I sold Solaris. >> It was a Solaris box, right? >> And and look at the world we've come to. >> Yes. >> I've come >> around >> here. and Solaris and I'll talk to you about Solaris because my first job >> pre Microsoft was TCS and it was on Solaris. >> So therefore they got me into Microsoft to beat Solaris because I knew how it worked. >> So you know how how how corporate structure works. I did that for 14 years. Then I went and founded a company called now floats in 2012 and that was uh just so that I can get Craigs in this room that was building

websites through an SMS in 2012 WhatsApp had not happened. Uh and just like you prompt engineer to in write a prompt to a LLM to make a website, we were taking SMSS and building a website. Consider it our prompt engineering and RSLM. Uh we exited that company. I sold that company. I was the CEO founder of it. I sold that company to a gentleman who now run owns this building. Uh so that was 2019. And then I have become uh uh kind of an investor and my my fourth AI startup and in between I did DPI because now floats was all about giving small

businesses a website. So DPI I fell into DPI. It's like Obelix you know obl. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. I fell into the portion these guys don't know. Yeah. They don't know fix and all that. >> They're going to actually >> you know like you talk about those cards. >> Yeah. >> The the punching cards. They're going to actually get up one day and say to their children, >> you know, we actually had to lug these phones around. >> Yes. Exactly. >> Do you remember? And one of them is going to tell their grandchildren, I even went to Mumbai in a conference. Can you believe that?

>> Exactly. >> There was no metaverse. >> Yeah. Is that going to happen? It will happen. Anyway, that's me. >> Yes. Um no and then u I want to touch upon through that like the the the DPI bit right why what was the motiv like I I know you mentioned like now floats and they were doing some DPI stuff but a little bit more about that a little bit more about I sprit also like because a lot of people surprisingly like you know I thought after after a while I started assuming that it's common knowledge but then it is actually it actually isn't so you dive a little deeper into how I spread uh what what it is how it how it functions and its impact packed.

>> So, you know, as a and I see many people coming in because they're telling their friends, "This is the best panel happening in the last two days." So, people are coming in. Very good. >> Or they're lost. >> Yeah. Yeah. Or they're lost. >> No, they're not. Sorry. >> Not everybody who's lost. >> Come see. >> What's it like? Not all who wander >> are lost. >> are lost. Anyway, so I think uh as as an opening remark on DPI and you know this is a chapter of the book that should come out soon uh within this month that I'm writing. It's India is a country in stealth at all times. This country runs in stealth. Nobody knows what we do. There is hardly any real buzz in the world

around us on act what we actually achieve let alone DPI let alone you know we do 70% of global transactions today in India using UPI nobody knows this it's it's the beautiful you know we hide everything as a country not because we want to it's just not in our nature you know you know the the Vedas and and the mythology and we're just not a bragging country. So, so many western cultures and China has a different theory to this and I love that. But many western cultures if you notice are not built on uh you know they you know if you see an average Indian startup and an average

western startup or a or or a Silicon Valley startup they will announce their plans to launch something in a month and if they get 100 likes on Twitter they'll start writing it. In India, the average person has 10x the IP, but they just doesn't know what to do with it. They, you know, I keep telling my team, every one of you are 10 patents every morning and just that you don't know it because you're just lazy to go and see, you know, what the world is doing. So, DPI coming to what I think we've done as a country is uh there's a history to DPI and there is a current. If you want to go to the history, I can go quickly delve into that. I mean DPI is about 25 years old. uh it wasn't called DPI you

we we still call it the India stack we took the India stack to the UN last year successfully to both the UN headquarters and we recristened it citizen stack we said let's not call it India stack let's start calling it citizen stack because we realize why would a country want to you know have their own India stack so you know Everybody wants to be sovereign and that's what we were talking to Rashmi am I right earlier today Rashmi is that yeah we talked about sovereignity and stuff like that and I and I realized how much it matters to a country to have their own stack which they feel they've built it for their own

masses in the right use cases in the right infrastructure the privacy the security and in many ways if you go to India's uh deep understanding of our history uh lot of stuff that happens in this country the it's incumbent on the government to do first. We we do did not uh barely now and perhaps uh getting out of it now. uh the private sector then takes over but but the government's the incumbent innovator uh they will our background as a country is such that they will not wait for uh the X entrepreneur to get a Y idea to go

change the country they will enable that through themselves uh even though many people don't believe that directly but digital public infrastructure is basically how the government got up and said we need a few things for this country to move forward and it's 25 years ago and it's uh not partisan because it was on different party lines when it started as a political party and it's continued over the years. So many people who say this government and that government and this and I say you know you show me the next government I'll still create the next DPI because that's my job. I I'll just I'll just keep creating DPI because there's no government here. We we all need to do work for each other. So when we first thought of Aadhaar or identity, we chose

digital. the world was still non-digital in identity and that's where the government had the vision to think through in 2006 or 7 when Nandan came over and 2008 I think we finally hired Sanjay Jen who by the way was the first architect of Aadhaar and I think we got Nandan hired him because he had just written Google maps and he said hey do you want to come back to India and do something he said yeah and he had won a hackathon within Google to write Google maps and how many of you can even not even live a minute without Google maps.

So the same gentleman comes back and and that's what India has. Our power was all over. We spread out very well very stealthy. Nobody knows anything. I don't think this this even this is mentioned in in things but but as an as a country we have taken leads on understanding thanks to being an Infosys chairman or or the CEO at that time or or the found he had the vision to think through. he was in a very vantageous position. Not to mention that Thomas Freriedman and and he wrote the world is flat in the same office. I don't know if you're aware of that. So the world is flat is written in Nandan's office in in in Bangalore. I don't know if anybody reads anymore but the point I'm making is DPI is in many ways an outcome of really

deep multi-year decadel long broadstroke thinking by a set of people who are deeply technical academics have a global view understand where the world is moving then they they see the the rails early and even in a country like India which people they uh has lot of bureaucracy and a lot of levels and uh you know it's difficult to work with government semi-government or anything PSU we are able to you know live through it and we've got a you know as I said it's probably 80% of the world's transactions are done in India you know everybody in the world wants to do their sovereign stack the AI stack or whichever stack they want to be so

there's a little bit of history in all this but I I think that so from identity we came to the next layer to the next layer to we are on the fifth layer and already in in rooms that you know are we are privy to we are already talking the eth and the ninth layer of DPI and uh I believe the eth and ninth layer is going to be built in public finally it's not going to be built inside because civil society is coming of age these kids are all coming of age uh you can't do things in a room anymore alone and say hey I've opened the API for you guys uh they want to all write APIs they all want to be a part of that thinking so that's going to change in the way DPI is envisioned.

>> Very very interesting. U wonderful. I'm done. >> Wonderful. Wonderful. >> Yes. [applause] >> So when you get to his book, don't read the chapter. You've heard it already. >> Yeah. Because I'm going to [laughter] I'm going to ask questions. I'm telling you, I'm a hard guy. Yes. >> If you're looking at my eyes, I'm going to ask you questions. And you better look at me now. >> Okay. >> All right. [laughter] >> Um >> that's a great great view. I That's wonderful. I've learned a lot of that. I'm an easy guy. >> Yeah. >> Right. Julian, I just want to touch a little bit about like how does like now with digital public infrastructure, right? When when people think about all of these systems, almost nobody thinks about blockchain, right? Especially in India, nobody knows about it. Like even

even with Hyperledger, uh I knew even I knew about Hyperledger. I had no idea that it's within used within npci or digiatra and all of these uh public infrastructure right so uh first of why are these people even using this uh sort of primitive right why are they even using private blockchain or why are they using it right uh why why can't they just use like I mean a database regular database is like a simpler architecture what most why is it not centralized so obviously is centraliz ized but I think that's just the scale of things and maybe that will change one day who knows right when they have a decentralized

uh identity right um so we also have digatra which is using most people have no idea that it's using has privacy so it uses you know privacy protocol it uses a ver um credentials right and the whole thing is a sovereign AI so they when you do your uh your your adar it basically gets given to uh gets onto your app and it disappears they do not store they It's not KYC. [laughter] Don't know your customer. So off you go. You don't need to know what your customer has done and you just have to get them through his process. Uh in terms of NPCI, that's just part of the global world is working towards digital assets and program money. So they've been working with the the euph tokenization and that is happening

around the world. there is an enormous drive to tokenizing money and uh and also uh real world assets and and they're part of that predominantly in the in the markets there also outside MPCI there is a lot of work here happening in governments trying to work out because there are challenges uh with lands rights and all these kind of things how do you create trust as we say building open in building in trust in the open that's how you can work and we also have open source alpi and tech companies here are very savvy use open source technology, they know that's the best and they do contribute back. So, um I think that's the way >> I I mean I'm still >> Well, that's a very broad answer. Yeah.

Yeah. >> No, no, I'm still so like like even with with with all of this, right, with NPCI and everything, right? I can still like so like like when there are multiple parties, it makes sense to use some sort of uh blockchain architecture, right? If it's the same party, who who are the ones like running different like sort of the nodes or something like that, right? Uh with with Hyperledger. >> Well, it's it's all about in the future of so let's think about why are we using decentralized technology? What's the benefit of tokenization? We understand the benefits of tokenization. You have one source of truth. So when you do some kind of trade, you have one view. You don't have to settle and you know

instant 24x7 or or all all those things. uh but the challenge is uh in moving it forward in technology is it's very hard to rip it apart because all that technology is driven it was written at a time for the uh you know for the insufficiency of the technology that existed right and processes are in place not but now you got new technology you can have it's like having AI agents doing things you have to you don't I wouldn't just replicate the world you have you redesign the world you have to use agents so I think that's what we can do with uh with uh decentralized technology so now digital any programmable manually and and all those things we can do.

>> Does that make sense? >> Yeah. That >> and also at some point India is going to have to be able to trade globally, right? So people are trading bonds and and and and capital market instruments and these things and it's happening in every city in every financial city in the world that's moving towards uh digital and this isn't crypto this is digital real world assets of real capital market instruments. One very interesting thread there was that even for me like during open source summit I realized that >> uh the underneath layer like it can also there is a relation to Ethereum right which is some which like hyper like I think um Hyperledger fabric is or >> fabric >> uh or which was the other ones which uses

>> Basu sorry my bad is the one that uses E that can that also doubles up as a Ethereum client right >> yes so so so the Ethereum part is the EVM, right? So yes, so so so consensus the history be behind that is that Kensus contributed uh this project uh which is uh uh was ultimately be called Bazu and that can you be used in a permissioned form with an EVM or it can be or it can be used on the mainet I think it's about 15 one 5% of the mainet uses uh uh Basu as a thing and that's great because it it it provides that stepping stone because I think a lot of institut ions particularly u are not

comfortable you know you know it's evolution rather than revolution of technology if you have other stakeholders and that be able to use u the uh permissioned and then get closer and closer and use the advantage of the permissionless makes sense for organizations >> so so is it like for for Ethereum like you know is it like sort of like a Trojan horse of sorts like you know like you first like it's on it's on hyperledger based but eventually there's a path towards Ethereum is like some some sort of or is it like the easier >> I think it's not a ro it's not going to be full of Greeks so it's not going to be a Trojan horse so I think it's it's it's basically uh it's it's the classic evolution of technology right and if you have the same base of that technology

it's easy to move down uh more more and more more like you're not going to suddenly say in the agentic world everyone just use their agents and hear the keys [laughter] you might use a sec technology and then evolve like you have might use MCP or other other technologies right which will slowly slowly evolve but I think that's the smart things that Ethereum has been very smart to be able to put it itself in the situation to satisfy both the permissioned and permissionless world uh and and that's where you know Beu comes from I think and and it is used by by HSBC just did a red coin in in thing ICIC uh uh uh sorry um HSBC um city uh city bank who use a citycoin and

actually that's a lot developed here in Pune just over in Pune And then there is uh DTCC uh then there is the bank of career then there's a bunch of banks all around the world are using this technology fabric itself is actually now putting has now got thing called fabric x and it has an EVM on it as well. So slowly these these standards are coming together uh and that's just in one place and I can talk about decentralized identity there's another kind of standards coming in place there's the UDI walop in in in Europe right all these standards are slowly coming together and which is a challenge because um you know as with standards um you can if you get standards too quickly you know it suppresses innovation if you're too late chaos but maybe that's good who knows but uh uh but ultimately

I think in many cases the code that becomes successful becomes the stand it. Sorry. >> That's that's >> fascinating. Uh uh the last piece I wanted to just touch upon uh with with with you uh Jazz like uh I think we spoke about something in my view where you know AI can is AI sort of like okay so here's my view right like earlier like with DPI we had like identity as as one of the first DPI like we had Aadhar the biggest project like now then okay dig is also some sort of ID project right um then we had for finance we have UPI and all of these things Samati uh you know uh account aggregate and so on.

Is AI going to be or should it be like considered uh the next uh DPI like you know access to intelligence is that a fundamental you know human thing for for for people and like um and then what are some challenges like you know how India should adopt this uh technology right >> first of all we have 3 minutes and I can talk for another half an hour just on that question but anyway >> we'll continue talk uh so AI is a a very fundamental al technology just like blockchain is a fundamental technology.

I think a lot of things innovations come on top. So uh will the next few DPIs be AI based and the current ones become AI enabled? The answer is a yes. Obviously it's going to happen. It's already happening. Uh there is a lot of inspiration from the way open networks and open weights and open source and anything open. You can throw me the next four things. Uh and I'll tell you they're all on the on the right path. uh because uh just the just the way the world is and you know I think there are two or three things really interesting which are happening if I was to wake these people up uh the internet of agents is here where every person will own just like you own websites and you

go to Gemini/Cloud/GPT each one of you will have a hundred named agents and probably a billion unnamed agents behind those hundred agents, they will do your task. And I give a great example. Yesterday in office, we we wrote an agent uh which saved you which gave you a car from Uber because you are running home and it was surge but saved that 30 rupees of search on a blanket order. So you still saved a,000 rupees a day a month. So they said, "Hey, don't worry. I got you covered. Here's your 30 rupees Uber extra charge. I'll reduce it in urban company or blink it because I have an agent which knows that you are value

sensitive but you need to go travel in in high traffic. So that's a great example of and you don't need to know all this, right? I mean, when are you going to keep filling OTPs and going from Uber to Blinket to save the money to go to Flipkart and then to Amazon and then to a government services? The internet of agents is is is here. We we're predicting this early 2027. That's the book we writing. Uh that's happening. The agents are going to spawn agents without your knowledge, of course, with your consent.

uh and then those agents are going to also destroy agents. You know there is some stuff which doesn't need it might need a ledger. It might need an entry. It might need a registry. But there will be a KYA. Agents will only survive in you know I'm going to use the word app store. It's not an app store. It going to be an agent store. But nobody can publish to the agent store if you are not KYA which is know your agent. You know what a KYC is. So it's going to happen. I think India is going through a very interesting phase because a we are a billion and a half people. We just already built the rails. We not talking rails today. We are not talking where

the country has come. I think we have the highest agility as a country to organize something on top of our rails. Any one of you can do an Aadhaar uh authentication. Any one of you and you don't need to know my name or anything. You just need a binary yes no that is just jasmar. That's all you need to know. You don't need to know if I'm just mender. Correct. in Aadhaar that's how it works. I think the other thing which is happening other than the internet of agents which is very valuable to people in this room but it is deeply uh missed out and uh it'll be another 5 years before somebody comes to me and says I I heard you that day and now I know what you meant. So the DPDP act how many of you know what's DPDP act? I really want

to see hands. >> Okay. So we are the first country who's going to actually notify the digital privacy act the PII/DP whatever you want to call it becomes into the laws passed last year by Lok Sabha and Raja Sabha it becomes an act on exactly 9 days from now at 6:30 a.m. And next year in May, the law becomes enforcable. Which means if I take your private data and I give it to him by mistake, uh you I mean if I take your private data and I give it to him, guess how much can I be sued for? Somebody take a guess.

I've taken Julian's data, which is worthless, which is beautifully important, and I've given it to you. >> Don't steal my name. How much will I what are the damages against me? >> Yeah. 250 CR. So these are also called a synchronous. Indian judiciary is somewhat behind in the world. We understand that. Uh but it's still a it's it's still a very so you know you have to understand deeply what's happening in the country. Why these acts are there? Why privacy is going to become a fundamental right? India is the first one to notify it in the world. Why is it an act in India? Why? You know, you got to understand going back again to millions of years if you may and our protectionist country and you know, we

wanted everyone, you know, to be on the same page. So, we can't afford to have data being leaked or misused or weaponized if I may. So, we have to do all this. So the h is there going to be lot of you people who can write on top of these rails and ride these rails to become the next phone paym account aggregator zerodha andd money grow upstocks give give me give me all these give me the even blinket needs an OTP for heaven's sake or Aadhaar to so you can become that you know consent manager is going to become very big that's a DPTP act uh data fiduciaries are going to become These

are important things and so if you are at that point in your life to understand this deeply and see where this is heading you're seeing something very early on you're seeing something which a billion and a half people are waiting for you to innovate on because the rails are being built and that's why I think this is an and this is never going to be an or uh if India is an open source country so to say we will take the the the ledger We'll we'll take the hypers ledger.

We'll take the we'll take everything. The this beauty of the tech world is we'll take everything. How it's an and world. There's there's no or left in the world. So think about that. >> We should and it'll be done globally. So the mantra we have is all of us are smarter than any one of us. So globally we work together on these standards on these ID which enable everything. So this agents you know your KYA I think I I like that and obviously that's all about trust as well. Well, so how so that that's where you know decentralized technology comes. It's all about developing trust right in this world which is going to be quite dynamic. It's good to have a little bit of trust as well in the mix. It >> this is all KY is a totally a trusted place. I mean your agent is actually

going to be written by you and we all now know this. It's not going to be written by you. It's going to be automatically written. uh it's going to figure out you know yesterday I was on on Twitter and this guy said I came home and I built an app on my TV for my grandmother because only three things matter to her you know when what time is the you know the path starting in Golden Temple uh where is his father-in-law right now and is there you know let's say homework of the grandchildren she can't use the phone it's on the TV he said I took 10 minutes and I wrote a >> no that's not an app guys that's an agent and you get the point right it has to talk to the location of the grandfather it has to talk to the school

of the grandchildren everything is going to become an agent which in the olden days was a website then became an API now it's being called an agent but the fact that it's highly interoperable the fact that you can write it in 10 minutes and the fact that you can make a voice note and make an agent how many of you made an agent with a voice note how many of you want to make it in the next 2 minutes I'll make an agent right now you want me to live stream this on an agent how many want to see All I have to do is tell Claude, "Hello, make agent sitting in Mumbai." He'll make it. Then I'll get some XP or somebody say, "Show me 20,000 people interested in this session." You'll [snorts] find me 20,000 people. How many people believe I'm right or wrong? Is

this happening today? So, it's already here. It's not the future, guys. It's already here. I mean, if this guy is building this app for his grandmother TV have to has the chip to run the soft which it does. >> We know that and it needs an internet connection which it does. >> It obviously connects to claude if it's got a internet and there you go. >> Yeah. >> No, I agree. I think that clock will >> all of us is going to have millions of agents each one of you.

>> You won't know it. >> No, it is amazing. And of course, you had to be savvy and it's good to come to conferences and this and learn how to do it. So, uh you know in the end >> in five years you don't need to be savvy. This is uh >> No, I agree. would have moved on. This room would have moved on. >> And the key the key is is the is building that digital public infrastructure to enable the identity to enable the trust to enable this exciting world to go. So that grandmother knows that she's also secure and safe and not scam people. So that is is is what open source that's what we're all working on together to do to make sure that that guy can go home and do that. Like everybody can do that, right?

>> That's right. It's going to happen. >> Yeah, it is. >> That's a that's a worthy goal to work towards. >> Yes. And uh yeah uh with that we'd like to thank um both of you for giving your time today. Uh quite an insightful panel. I I myself learned uh quite a lot uh through the journey and hope all of you did too. Uh if you have any further questions for each of us I think each of them uh I think uh Jazz you're the last session. >> Yeah this is the last session. We can go on for another hour. >> But yeah, like you can find Jazz on on on on Twitter and where else are you active?

>> Uh on Twitter and LinkedIn and Julian is on LinkedIn is active on LinkedIn and that's the best place to reach out >> name. Yeah. >> Questions to everybody. >> H he's got a question or no >> I can ask questions. >> I think they've got they've got a they got a schedule and they've got to do an ending ceremony. >> Unfortunately, that's what it's all about. Correct. >> [music]