DeFi State of the Union | Uniswap, Aave, Compound, Synthetix

Transcript

uh we are going to talk about so many different things uh we have of course kane warwick from synthetics we have mary katherine lauder from uniswap labs uh and then beamed him here on the left is dani from ave and then we got robert lesnar on the right from compound and these are all projects that have seen some things uh and there are a lot of questions that i have for them and we're going to go through a little bit of all of them there are many many things to discuss uh are like do we want to emphasize layer twos over multi-chain layer ones uh we're going into a bear market allegedly how is that going to impact the trajectory of what we built uh what's next for the innovations in d5 so i think we're going to cover a little bit of all of these things and i

actually don't know where to start first because each one of these protocols each one of these teams i was probably focused on something unique to them so kane of all the things that there are things to think about as we go into 2022 to finish off this year into 2023 what is synthetics really optimizing for right now what are you guys focused on i think the main focus for us is still uh ethereum scaling so you know we're on optimism um we've been working on that transition for a long time now and we've gotten to a point where i think the ecosystem is really starting to get some momentum on optimism um you know obviously the upcoming op token launch is going to help with that as well um so yeah for us it's about like still supporting and building out that

optimism ecosystem so we can kind of repatriate all of the alt l1 users uh over the last you know couple of years that have accumulated and and kind of let out of the ethereum ecosystem and bring them back to the ethereum mothership can you talk a little bit about the need for scale uh at the at the feed layer and then also at the speed layer to uh that creates scale with synthetics the app yeah so synthetics i think has always been a pretty gas intensive protocol um you know so back even in 2019 when gas prices were a lot lower and the eat price was lower people were still complaining all the time about it so i think that just pushed us uh very early to start thinking about it and as uni

swapped it as well with the uni-pig demo um you know to really like make sure that we were on track to scale um and so you know even with gas prices lower today than you know they have been for a little while i think you know it's still uh you're you're talking about you know sub-dollar transactions on on optimism so you know it's much much better than on l1 lovely uh mary let's turn to unifop labs what do you guys focus on have to close out the year and to get us into 2023 we're most focused on simplifying the user experience to help drive growth of defy overall and growth of these protocols overall so still today as everyone here knows there's too many steps to access things like you know swap protocol to access things like synthetics of a compound and

so we're focused on simplifying that so that whether it's retail or in the case of more sophisticated and professional users um it's a much simpler more streamlined user experience and people can understand how do they create liquidity pools or add liquidity how do they make decisions about which chain or layer two they want to trade on we're optimistic and excited that a driver of growth in this bear market is going to be capital formation and the growth of more communities and long tail tokens and so we want to help make sure that their tools that make that accessible and can help drive that as a driver of growth lovely love you all right let's turn to the people in the heavens donny on my on my right stani what's ave up to i did so many different things uh what do you

guys focus on to close out the year first of all i have to compliment kane's hair it's it's it looks very nice very well grown um and hi from metaverse um yeah so uh this year for alba has been a very quite big year especially because uh we a couple of months ago we launched the the ave version 3 and and we we were focusing quite a lot uh on the risk mitigation side and capital efficiency and and the idea of the version three was that uh we kind of started to see uh decentralized finance uh grow quite substantially um i personally uh never kind of like believe

that we come so fast into having smartphone check-based protocols that are holding uh billions of dollars worth of value uh given that the whole space didn't exist uh just a few years ago and for us what we wanted to do is that uh we we wanted to add features that actually uh decrease uh the risks so you can list assets in in isolated mode that doesn't affect the other collaterals uh but also kind of like taking into consideration that uh we are in a state of uh multi-chain um uh universe so so there is different kinds of uh of course alcohol twos but l l ones uh that are creating new

communities and this has been very interesting because uh many people who has been like uh born and raised on ethereum uh such as me uh it's been always kind of like a privilege to build here uh but also kind of like these new communities such as like polygon avalanche they uh they create new opportunities to to builders and community members to participate uh very early and and of course like that's uh that's also the challenging part because of uh our protocol is deployed in multiple networks and and there's the bridging uh functionality as well uh as assets are moving uh from one network to another uh but also the layer twos is something where we think uh there's

gonna be a lot of uh work uh and focus on on uh our side but more more i would say we uh there there's two things we after this like post the v3 launch where we're focusing uh one is the the the governance layer so we're trying to figure out uh how we can get more uh people to vote and care about governance uh and get create better tools so this is going to be like a one of the main focus points uh for us and then uh a bigger topic for us is the uh experience layer so experience layer essentially means that uh improving the user experience and and being able to um

kind of like scale dfi to users that are currently out of the ecosystem because it's it's relatively uh challenging to interact with but also that experience layer means also uh in a wider aspect in dfi you know how do you recognize which protocols are actually the ones that uh are battle tested which are more experimental um and and just focusing on on this uh kind of an aspect that's that's for us and of course like we adobe we are more of about three dollars so we uh we build these interest finance but we see that tree as a kind of like a bigger economy um and and social is is one of the things that we we think is is

gonna uh be a big part of finance uh as well uh so that's that's kind of our main main focus at the moment amazing and robert last but not least take us home the man that started off defy summer in the yield farming revolution uh you got another ace up your sleeve uh robert what do you guys focus on to take us home yeah so the focus for compound is really um bringing institutions into d5 you know historically almost all using d5 has been individual led for the most part um you know people self-custody in their own assets interacting with d5 protocols directly um our focus right now is how do we get an entire new class of users into the ecosystem

um those who aren't self-custodying their own crypto those who want to access it um in different ways and those who are coming at it from a more you know institutional investor perspective and so you know earlier um you know last year we launched a product called compound treasury which is a institutional on and off ram to access the compound protocol we're seeing unbelievable growth in this product and our focus is really on taking this on an off-ramp for institutions and making it as meaningful as possible so being able to service um everything from you know investment firms to corporate treasuries to banks uh et cetera um you know as part of this compound treasury recently received a credit rating um from a major

global rating agency um which is one of the steps to creating an extremely institutional product and so you know all the things that we're doing are really just focused on um enabling institutions with you know billions of dollars to deploy capital into d5 safely and securely and so i think the the audience here can kind of get a grasp for how varied all these answers are robert's focus focus on institutions kane here is focused on building out layer twos and lowering fees unit swap labs mary's focus on making making uniswap easier for the periphery and stani and v3 has like a whole host of brand new features so defy as always is growing in very very many different directions all over the place which is why d5 is always so bullish but

also there's just rumors of a bear market coming around uh and as we go into a bear market the prioritization shifts especially when we are in the world of dao's and dow capital uh and and treasuries that are based on the token itself the prioritization of resource management i think it becomes really really relevant uh and we are blessed by having four people here that have been a part of products that came out of a bear market uh and so perhaps there are some lessons to be gleaned about uh building during a bear market and the advantages of building during a bear market but also the strategies to uh not waste a bunch of money as we go into a bear market so kane i'll throw this again to you has uh this uh the prioritization or or

just like thoughts of the synthetic strategy changed over the last three months as all of our portfolios have gotten burned look we've uh i think like most of the og d5 projects been fairly careful about uh treasury management um you know and uh tried to ensure that we didn't get into a position of any kind of stress in terms of runway or whatever i think most of us learned that in 2018 that you know it can always get much worse than you uh than you expected um and so we prefer you know we've really prepared for like worst case scenario um but i think for me if we do get into a bear market the exciting thing is it's actually a time for you to be able to catch up

so you know in a bull market there's this abundance of capital everyone's doing so many different things that it's impossible for you to even keep track you're just trying to do your own thing and you know kind of maintain some sense of order and all the chaos but there's all of this really cool experimentation going on and in a bear market you can actually stop because things slow down you can be like oh wait i didn't you know know about this thing or i didn't know about that thing you can start to kind of take these different components of things that people have built and put them together and that's where i think you see some of the like amazing you know kind of composability and innovation really flourish and i think that's what will then kind of you know catalyze the the next run out of there

when people start making some really cool stuff out of a lot of the you know infrastructure that's been built in the last 18 months yeah certainly things that definitely get adopted during bear markets have a fantastic time during bull markets and i think that is the story of unit swap as well so mary maybe you could just give us some perspectives and give us some some uh some hope for for people who are perhaps uh a little bit down in the dumps about bear markets uh maybe this is their first one i think this is a lot of people's first bear market but uniswap came out of with shining colors out of the first bear market so do you have any perspectives that you could share about that yeah i have two thoughts on this bear market but one just to reference what you said exactly each of

the protocols represented on this panel was created in the glass bear market and as you suggested uniswap was founded by hayden adams backed by an ethereum foundation grant and that was in the wake of so many icos that had raised so much capital so quickly and so much hype and i think part of what made it successful at the outset was that authenticity and the fact that it was a project really trying to solve a problem or create bootstrap liquidity so i think that what's one of the benefits of bear market is that other sources of validation go away and so all you really have is whether what you're building is going to work and whether people are going to use it and so one thing i would say that is that we think a lot about is that especially in a decentralized ecosystem uh those are composed of different teams

um and so you have to really think about what is your team best equipped to do uniquely equipped to drive adoption of so perhaps in robert's case his team is best equipped to explain compound treasury to institutions um to drive that adoption much more than anyone else who might contribute to compound in our case um at you know swap labs they're they're we are building products on top of the swap protocol and the um the token holders drive uh adoption of scaling solutions like layer twos or deployment to other chains what we can focus on is simplifying the user experience and so i think being very crisp and focused on what your team and the resources that you have can best accomplish is important to help drive the success of an overall more decentralized ecosystem certainly

stein let's go back to you ave i always considered to be a bear market darling it was one of my favorite apps during the the last bear market uh any thoughts or lessons or perspectives as we perhaps go into the next one yeah i think uh uh bear market different i i mean i guess we can call it bear market now right so that's the uh elephant in the room so uh i i think what's uh good about it is that you know it really well let's let's start with the bull market i think in bull market uh you know it it really tests your focus out as a builder for example that there's sort of things that are taking off there's there's a lot of exciting ideas uh

innovation uh but also see kind of like a different teams um also a bit um like expanding their their focus a bit um i i think kind of like doing more than than you are doing now uh in terms of building in uh that three is important so but you always have to have the thesis so for example um our our goal at abba is that we we want to build the web 3 infrastructure and get more people empowered by by by the blockchain technology that's where what we're uh focusing upon so uh just to give an example we we've been building decentralized finance over

the past years and and now we're doing also uh uh building web3 social and doing different kinds of experimentations as well with the uh our x-men experimentation pod nude and i i just think that as long as you have a very strong thesis on what you are what do you want to do as a team and as your organization that's the uh the key thing then you don't kind of lose focus if you are on your mission and and i think like uh at all our actual product is the organization so the things that we can actually we have a strong team that we can build different things that we think that are gonna uh increase the adoption uh for web trivia technology and that's kind of

our piece is admission um and i think it's kind of like very um important to try different things uh but you're always limited with resources um and and and that's where uh the bear market kind of like shows that so but as long as you are focused um you know you can build many things at the same time uh on on bear market as well and and i think like regarding maybe fundraising i i think like raising funds like bull markets are good to raise funds to then use on on bear markets uh i personally love bear markets because it reduces the noise uh you know so i like kane said that there's so much

things happening it's just like barely can catch up with everything but during bear market you can actually spend some time reading more and more white papers in understanding new tech that is built being built or so i i think this is a great time we should celebrate bear markets robert of course i want your perspectives as well but the next thread i want to pull on is what are the use cases that it's going to really take to catalyst uh bring us into the next bull market and i'm gonna make this joke twice because i think it's funny as the man who killed the last bear market uh how how are you guys thinking about the the bear market but also what are the use cases that you think are going to help us get out of this thing yeah so in order to get out of a bear

market um it really just requires the excitement and enthusiasm of you know all of the different participants um that really comes from capital um but really it comes from you know people's getting excited again and that's often you know happening in different areas sometimes and each time from something new right so in 2020 that was from this new concept of giving the governance of a protocol that does something important and valuable directly to the users compound did it uniswap did it that was unbelievably exciting and that drove a lot of energy and attention into the space and define a lot of ways ended the last bear market one of the things that we've seen since

then is that a lot of that excitement has actually shifted to things like nfts and it's still not really in a lot of ways bear market for nfts um and i i think you know when i look at bull and bear it's sometimes very verticalized i think that you know the next bull market might come from something that we don't even anticipate um you know it might come from you know native crypto currencies again you know maybe bitcoin leads the way um it's possible that it comes from you know much wider you know societal excitement around you know game fi um which is still extremely early i think the thing that kicks off the next bull market is going to come from you know a new idea just generating a huge amount of

excitement and i don't know if it's going to be anything that we've seen previously you know one of the things that is a fact is that every single bull market comes from somewhere new that we haven't really expected um so i i think the bull market will come and i don't know what's going to kick it off but most of us will be participating in some way amazing uh this next question mary i want to start with you uh dolls are still new uh while human organization is not the form of the dell the form factor of the dao is new and so i'm wondering is there any just like as we go into and try and be efficient with our resources and really just like become optimized with our dow governance structures how are there any aspects of like the

uniswap dao or unit swap labs where like the resources of the dow are not fully tapped in where like there's latent potential here and we haven't pulled that potential out because bear markets sorry to keep on using the bear market word guys but i'm gonna keep on doing it uh bear markets are a great time to tap into latent potential and latent energy what do you see in the uniswap dial but also in the greater dow space as like latent potential to pull out as we try and maximize our resources no it's a great question because i think that there have been a few exam a few examples of types of proposals that communities have gotten comfortable with right so in the lending protocols those are very clear in the case of unit swap a new fee tier on deployment of a new governance contract

deployment to new chains those like kind of muscles have been built but to your point the sort of exercise of using dell funds to drive growth maybe has not been developed as clearly beyond the initial use case of liquidity mining and so i think it's an interesting time for members of the united swap community to think about how they can participate to drive to drive growth and success and the resilience of the protocol whether that means it's development by many other teams beyond the team unit swap labs which is one of the contributors to protocol or whether that's deployment to other chains and other drivers of growth so just and just to level set so uniswap labs is um as a corporation we're a team that is one of the core contributors to the protocol um

but all the use of the treasury management all dow activity is driven by token holders um robert lesner is a major delegate many other people here are as well so the deployment to polygon clement arbitram deployment to cello like these were all driven by the community those are great examples of drivers of growth and so as we think about how to drive new use cases and basically just make sure that web3 infrastructure is readily available that defy as infrastructure is readily available to enable those use cases if we don't know what they are then that's a great opportunity for um for participants in these communities to really help drive the next phase okay i'd like to throw that same question to you because uh as we said like there's a ton of latent energy in layer twos uh synthetics specifically

gets a lot of that tailwind from the the cheaper fees on layer twos uh so what kind of latent potential is there in this in synthetic style and how do we tap into that i think the interesting thing is we've actually been in an eighth d5 bear market you know d-gen spartan kind of started this off unfortunately right um you know uh like i think we're in month 18 or something like that of of the 85 bear market and i think a big part of that was um you know coming out of d5 summer we had so much activity on l1 the fees were so expensive we really priced out a lot of new entrants and all of the people who came in and were not able to access l1 because of high gas fees you know went somewhere else some went to

polygon some went to solana some went to avalanche some went to bsc you know there are different places that people ended up um but i think we we really missed out the eighth d5 kind of uh you know the og protocols missed out on a lot of that user growth over the last kind of 12 to 18 months and so i do think that now as we've finally gotten scaling kind of uh to a point where it's production ready that we will have this kind of resurgence where people who maybe haven't used compound or ave you know i think most people have used uni swap even even on l1 but i think that there's a lot of protocols where people just haven't really had a chance to use them because they were priced out um you know and unless it was deployed to polygon or

something like that they they may not have ever uh you know interacted with it so i think we will have this um you know kind of scenario where people start testing out l2s they you know they try arbitrarium they try optimism and they realize that you know cheap fees you get all of the benefits of the ethereum ecosystem and that to me is probably going to be the catalyst for like a resurgence of eat device uh one one thought that i have is that we never really seem to have the same bull market twice uh like it always seems to be a new thing that catalyzes the next bull market and as the energy uh left the d5 ecosystem and went into the nft ecosystem and hasn't seemed to leave since uh do you think d5 can take back the the center stage from the nft

world i've said this a few times before like defy is very important and powerful but not that interesting right like there's not that many people who care deeply about finance i think when you look at nfts and you look at culture and gaming and all of that sort of stuff like it's much more interesting people are much more interested in movies and music and things than they are in like weird you know mechanism design and financial engineering but financial engineering and d5 is very powerful so i think if we get to a point where we're actually delivering on the promise of some of these protocols and we are on boarding you know new users new entrants and new you know categories institutional capital etc um i think that that will drive a lot of growth um

even if it doesn't necessarily drive as much attention so i think nfts will bring a lot of attention to the ecosystem and then you know people will start to use d5 just because it's there they've got a wallet already they've been onboarded they're kind of crypto native at that point and certainly when i say the word nfts people think jpegs they think art but there's also just like the erc721 token standard which there's actually no reason why that can't really be considered defy too um and so mary i thought this question back to you and then i'll i'll bring stani and robert into this conversation but is there a world where uh d5 gets aided by the erc 721 standard and it's it's not a crypto punk it's not a fedenza it's not a board ape but like we actually lean into the financial capabilities of a new token

standard yeah you could totally think about applications for 721s in in finance or defy whether that's like insurance contracts or certain kinds of derivatives contracts i think that bringing on big institutional pools of capital be a great testament to which format actually is the best for a certain financial use case so i'm optimistic and excited about that it's not something we're actively working on but it's something that um you know i hope to see a lot more examples of and also agree that basically just bridging the world between erc20 and 720 erc 20 and 721 is going to be important for the continued growth of dfi whether that means in a community context for existing nft communities or for more like pure financial use cases sony i'd like to throw that same

question to you uh where is the world of the erc721 and d5 is there a bright future ahead yeah i think there's a lot of value in non-fungibility um and i i mean just to take take a look into uh unisop you know the the uh the the positions are tokenized as uh erc 71 so essentially um you already kind of have this financialization of nfds and and those kind of use cases but when we look at kind of like a more uh you know traditional economy um there is a lot of um assets that are actually not fungible that can be properties uh other kind of

real-world assets and i think it's just a matter of time as this space starts to grow and i think like the the uh real world asset concept there's over the uh market that we have with uh with centrifuge uh where these nfts that are representing real-world assets are tokenized uh as nfts and packaged into a more cold model and that market is already live uh very small door compared to the to the whole rest of the uh decentralized finance so so definitely i think that will happen uh and we're very early in terms of um the whole kind of like use cases where we can use um erc standard because that can be also a way

to trade yield in the future uh in various um use cases and in fact at alba we're building a small plc of uh using nfts as a collateral just as an experimentation to see how it uh works in terms of uh the implementation uh we have in mind and there's plenty of protocols out there that that offer similar functionality where you can unlock liquidity out of your uh nfd but like on the long term uh i think there is a lot of value and that market can become even uh bigger than the fungible uh market robert the gist i'm seeming to get is that the erc 721 standard seems to go

into the real world asset financial contracts bucket uh which uh makes sense to me but also that really seems to lean into the whole institutional side of the world as in those are the players that will probably be creating these things those are the players that will be leveraging these these things uh so when in when we talk about the onboarding of the institutions uh and getting all of their capital into our world what role do you see that erc erc721 playing well i i will preface by saying it's unbelievably early um and in a lot of ways it's just one new format for data right just like you know in any um contrasting formats jpegs or gifs you know mp3s or wavs i mean it's just a different format

right and so you know i think it's going to be another opportunity to represent assets represent wealth i mean standing touched on this before it's a better way to represent things like real estate it's a better way to represent things like unique contracts um and those are asset classes that be more institutional than retail um but i don't necessarily think that you know erc 20 verse 721 is going to be the difference between you know um allowing institutions in or allowing retail in i think you know that difference is based on the tools available to them to interact with these ecosystems and these token formats are different ways to um represent value and you know those tokens can be traded borrowed sliced and diced programmed in any imaginable way um and i i think that

you know the biggest you know game changer for whether or not new types of users are going to come into the ecosystem is you know will the ecosystem have what excites them you know for retail that's art and being able to speculate on you know pictures of monkeys and that's super fun right for institutions it's probably not speculating on pictures of monkeys it's probably you know something radically different so the real question is what excites them and you know how is that going to come onto the blockchain so i'm going to sorry i have to do this but this is going to be the the less fun part of the conversation but regulation uh we just saw 40 billion dollars get destroyed last week uh and now the regulators are probably paying a lot more a lot more attention even

though they already probably were uh and so i think every single organization whether it be a company or a dow or or something needs to have the regulatory conversation internally but then also externally as well uh so robert i'll throw this one back to you uh what is like the the regulate regulation zeitgeist compound like how are you guys approaching this uh what are you guys preparing for should we be scared question mark understand is that fundamentally d5 has a lot of advantages that regulators uh should and are extremely excited about so you know defy is radically transparent it's radically fair it's autonomous

it's open source so anyone can see how it works and it operates you know 24 7. these are all things that are extremely good because they reduce the opportunity for fraud um and for mistakes now the contrast of this is that you know there's still a lot of fraud and mistakes and these are the things that regulators get concerned about and this is also because a lot of things are trying to jump into the d5 umbrella and so you know there's a lot to be excited about and there's a lot that makes them nervous and when they see things like 40 billion dollars of value getting vaporized in an extremely short amount of time you know you have to ask why and obviously tara and luna and ust

you know are their own ecosystem and very different from what's happening here but you know it's a massive alarm bell that's been wrong and so you know i think a lot of the nuance is going to get lost um you know i think the positive virtues of d5 are going to get ignored temporarily for the risks of the ecosystem of just smart contracts being able to be created by anybody that can move manage and transfer tens of billions of dollars of value permissionlessly um that's scary right and so i think the next two years are going to be focused on you know trying to differentiate the good actors from the bad on the part of regulators

because there's a lot of like bad acting in the space still and you know it presents an opportunity um to start to differentiate you know folks that are trying to take really strong positive virtues of defy and build a solid financial system and those who are looking to um you know build systems that benefit themselves and obfuscate you know what's happening um under the umbrella device so i i think it's going to be rougher waters ahead for a lot of projects i think you know the projects that are you know extremely well intentioned are going to be well served but you know i think um if i were a bad actor in the space right now i'd be a lot more concerned than it was a few weeks ago robert there's the conversation of well

clearly regulators should like this it gives them all of the data that they need to do good regulation and they should enjoy that but then there's the other side of the equation where regulators first have to care and they have to actually care about these nuances and i i'm worried that uh people viewing this industry externally will see like internally in this industry i think a lot of people were divided on terra some were were like this is a great experiment and others were like this is doomed to fail but looking externally terra and crypto might as well be synonymous to people that don't care about nuance so do you have any perspectives as to any conversations that you have on on the regulation side about how much they care about these nuances how do they do they just want to stamp

this industry out or do they actually want to be more nuanced about this i'm sure just like uh i claimed that they painted d5 with a broad brush i might also be painting regulators with a broad brush uh but just any any nuanced perspective there well it's a matter of education so as people learn about these systems and they learn how they work in general they get more excited and more embracing but it's you know a fact that almost everyone is starting from a position at zero right a couple years ago you know no politician knew what uh defy was a couple years ago very few even knew what crypto was um and as you know as a society we could we become more experienced with these things you know the embrace of it grows it's just we're at a point now where the education

level is still very low and so you know there's a lot of work being done right now to increase the education amongst politicians regulators all of the external stakeholders and oftentimes it's being met with a lot of excitement um you know more so than expected but you know it's it's a huge issue and so you know i think one of the things that's going to happen is you know we are going to see more and more familiarity with it you know a great example is just you know even today most mainstream media calls everything a cryptocurrency even though very few things in our space we're trying to be currencies um it's just a function of education i think you know regulators are becoming more in tune and that's a good thing and they're going to be able to be more sophisticated about what they look for

what they try to stop and what they try to encourage i actually want to throw this to kane as well because there is an outsized population of builders from australia uh that is uh well in the crypto industry but also here at permissionless shout out the team from uh maple and also tracer dao uh australia seems to have a lot of builders and that that regulatory environment is different over there uh and so trying to get out of the u.s frame of mind how is the regulation and and just the approach and relationship with regulators different in australia uh i mean it's maybe a little bit less adversarial i think um you know certainly the the gensler scc i think has been a little bit more adversarial than most of us would have hoped um but in

australia i think the the approach has been um to kind of take uh a hands-off you know unless there's something that's like outright fraud or you know like very clearly um you know a bad actor or something like that they've they basically said like let's let this play out um but i actually was in uh a meeting i went and met with um our treasury um and they're actually like pretty well educated on a lot of these things like they do have some awareness of like the nuance obviously not as deep as you know probably a lot of people in this room but they are making an effort and so you know they're going through this consultation process to kind of understand how to dowse fit into like a traditional corporate structure you know how are we going to manage this stuff um so i do

think that there are jurisdictions that are trying to be a bit more proactive and uh you know work out how we're going to manage this because dolls aren't going away there's you know dows are going to become uh you know even more powerful over the next like five to ten years um so you know all the jurisdictions and all the regulators around the world are going to need to get their heads around how do we incorporate this into the existing frameworks that we have do you think how much of a of a boon to innovation do you think australia is going to get as a result of the just the more friendly regulatory environment i mean it you know it's definitely helping right now there's an opportunity um and i think that the opportunity is you know still kind of uh it's unclear whether or not they're

going to take it right because right now just being hands off is not enough i think the next step is to say okay we're going to take you know a very clear approach and set some very clear boundaries you know give some guidance because you know all of us are still waiting for guidance from you know kind of anyone to come out and say this is how we want to approach this um i think it's better to uh you know to kind of wait for a point where they can say okay this is what we want to do and so this consultation process that they're going through now is trying to just gather as much information as possible but i think that there's a lot of opportunity for uh you know many different jurisdictions to kind of adopt crypto and come up with some very clear rules and guidance that

will um you know allow people to uh to operate and you know have a sense of what they can and can't do and and provide some certainty because when you're operating under in certain you know conditions it's just not ideal obviously certainly mary before i throw it to stani to take us home ed what are the conversations that uniswap labs with with regulation i agree with so much of what's been said already but i guess what i'll say is that um look as a good actor um and these are all good actors on the stage you can be proactive and so we're trying to be proactive in illustrating how the benefits of d5 that robert mentioned how they can lead to better uh better protections and and the delivery of the mission that regulators care about so if a regulator is concerned about investor

protection how can you have more transparent disclosure if a regulator is concerned about market manipulation how can you think about things like flashbots or other um other sort of ways to address potential advantages that exist in um defiant crypto markets so there this is an opportunity to blend be educating regulators we just hired a head of policy and have a presence now in dc to help do that to help explain the benefits of defy explain how and why for example automated market making or decentralized market infrastructure is positive is enabling is inherently progressive but also to think about technology driven solutions to the risks that regulators might be care might care about and to start building building those things now and not wait to be told

guys thank you so much for coming to this panel the one last question i have uh and i'll lead into it a little bit is that d5 d5 summer 2020 and d5 at large it's really built on this topic of composability and as robert said the next thing that catalyzes the next bull market we're not going to see it coming but it's going to be great uh by definition uh because it causes a bull market and so i think something that is on the horizon is something in the world of uh social media and also on chain social media which all also produces surface area for stuff and i think you can see stani just changed the background of his uh of his uh zoom to a lens donnie uh while this uh panel was going on a big announcement happened about 18 minutes ago can you

give us the announcement uh sure so recently we launched actually uh exactly 18 minutes ago the lens protocol which is about pretty social essentially you can create a on chain and have your follower relationships on chain essentially where you own uh the content so lens protocol has been something that we have been building uh past year um at ave uh and now finally we got it into made mainnet and and the idea is that uh we believe uh that the ownership of contents uh and your profiles and communications should belong to you the same way as uh any assets and accessibility to dfi

belongs to you as well that's an interesting project um some of you might sign the uh open letter uh meaning that uh you vote for the future of social to change and you can claim your uh lens handle which hopefully is it's very rare for you uh yeah thank you so much and and was an amazing uh panel from my side panelists thank you so much and uh here's to another great bear market of building or bull market who knows