DeFi by Design EP#85: The Key to Web3 Mass Adoption w/ Mysten Labs

Transcript

welcome to D5 by Design where we talk all things blockchain and cryptocurrency while striving to educate Empower and enrich it's your boy Andy and welcome back to the D5 site YouTube Channel smash the like button on this video that really helps us out and sit back and enjoy the content thank you very much what's going on guys welcome back to the D5 by Design podcast here today with episode 85 in the midst of a D5 bear market and what feels like the macro environment just coming down on us but what's most exciting is we are still uh still here and still creating and talking about defy and trying to get in on what's going on in the ecosystem and

kind of the impressive innovations that are happening I'm here of course with Rob as well Rob and I have been heads down doing just all different types of projects still doing content um trying to trade a little bit just doing a good bit of stuff so um yeah Rob how you doing today happy Friday um and excited to talk about uh uh that uh the development of a new alternative layer one here today yeah yeah good morning and uh hello it's another beautiful day in Florida it's uh definitely great to have the opportunity to chat with Evan and Abby the founders of mistin labs and really pioneers of uh some new blockchain technology like Andy said we are we are uh building through

this bear Market um meaning we're just learning as much as we can um testing out and experimenting with some of the new technologies that are available as a result of all the great work that Engineers have done in the space so far and the the uh missed in labs and Suite blockchain is no different um so I'm really excited to dive in to what makes sui different and what new uh levels uh and opportunities uh this technology will bring us um yeah I'll uh pass it over to our esteemed guests um adami do you want to start introduce yourself kind of how you got started in

blockchain technology and your journey that led you to missed in labs sure thing hey everybody my name is Anthony abiodan I'm one of the co-founders of Mr Labs along with Evan actually spent the last decade of my career in crypto I got involved in Bitcoin in 2011 and started building space in 2012. but my last um stand in the crypto space was actually at Facebook spent the last two and a half years of my career working with Evan and the team in the advanced r d portion of Facebook on the Libre project trying to get Libra out the door I worked as a lead PM there working all the r d work we did in addition to you know custody and other interesting projects at Facebook prior to that I was I was lead

pm at both VMware and an Oracle to launch Enterprise blockchain and again before that I was building my own startups in the in the crypto space namely in Bitcoin and Bitcoin mining um start off my career as a software engineer and slowly progressed into product management as well through the process sweet and Evan I assume you come from a technical background as well for 26 years now so you know all the gray hair shows uh was a software engineer uh actually was a very good one uh so 2012 ACN Software System Award winner uh for my work on on LVN and

related Technologies um you know so kind of move into sort of you know sort of more team building uh kind of role over there the years but my passions really has always been on Cutting Edge technology so yeah I spent before I spent the last three and a half years uh kind of leading the Novi efforts there are a couple areas uh developer platform and then research um ultimately combined into one thing called Nobi research right so pretty much a lot of the core innovation in the uh the DM blockchain a lot of them came from my team so the entire move platform

um you know our co-founder CTO Sam is the leader the the designer of the move language you know he had team to work on formal verification and everything uh the entire entire stack um and beyond that right you know we had Dalia Maki uh Georgia dynastus which is also another wild co-founder leading our law effort on the sort of the future of consensus and the assistant design hospice is our You Know Chief cryptographer who is leading everything related to cryptography so we had a great team build a lot of cool stuff so very very excited um you know after three and a half years

there on nove team we just decided it's time to you know do our own thing and move a little faster and and be even more ambitious uh that we what we set out to do at Facebook yeah yeah and I mean I think there's a uh there's quite obviously a massive uh broad market for kind of this ability for teams and applications to come and build on a layer um that has um you know the trustlessness and the speeds and kind of the efficiencies um that a lot of these project Builders kind of want um you know there's there's definitely a lot of blockchains to to choose from and the different kind of philosophies for each one

um you know but I think now we we're starting to see some of these you know more robust and sustained chains kind of keep a lot of users where some of like the newer ones have kind of started to like phase off a bit um in terms of like I guess hype and overall um kind of like excitement um so I guess let's kick off with kind of um what do you guys see as being like the ideal kind of uh technology for a layer one or for an app layer is there a way to kind of solve the uh trilemma that you guys guys have thought thought through or or kind of what's been your perspective for the ideal kind of um you know outline OR tech for this um layer one

yeah so so we take a somewhat different view right so if you if you think about you know sort of what's been happening look at what has been happening in the space for the last few years there's a lot of focus on addressing uh the shortcomings of existing blockchain technology existing layer one but each of them is sort of doing a piece by piece right addressing one problem at a time right using raw out to address uh sort of the you know super concerns right there's some newer smart contract language has been developed uh that will be better than solidity which is to be frank not a high bar to cross you know but you know I think a lot of what our view is you know solving each one of

those a problem piecemeal you know actually creates different sets of trade-offs put it that way right so there's a lot of focus on modular blockchains and and all that and there's a great a lot of great ideas by themselves right but but you have to also think about from the product uh build a perspective it's hard enough to build on blockchains it is very very daunting for people who are outside who are not crypto native and outside the blockchain space to come in and say Hey how do I do this use this technology to to address the problems I'm seeing in engaging with my customers right in growing the business uh then now you're adding another layers a few more choices to them uh for

them that that's in my opinion not the right way to solve problems you know the trade-off is too steep right and also you know a lot of these technologies will have kind of other problems right other challenges introduce right it's for example protocol charting right will improve uh supports but it breaks Atomic composibility right and and guess what right we've been talking about compostable compostable everything compostable it's not right we haven't demonstrated that and you're breaking it even further very smart contracts hard enough now if you are building a a protocol shotting system now you have to have the developer be aware how to write uh you know concurrent programs right

it's it's nuts right if you think the current uh it's hard enough now think about what those Solutions add to the problem so uh that's why when we came out um you know you know we we wanted to take some time because you know we we've been thinking about how to more fundamentally solve the problem from a total design perspective right it's not one thing we want to solve everything right what are those things we want to solve yes uh we want yourself a scalability problem but what sort of way to solve scalability problem and what does that look like right so you know if you again coming from the product developer perspective just saying you have a road map to solve scalability is not going to be good

enough right what people want to know is now and the future they want to have predictability in the cost they want to know if you keep on they keep on going in their their product right uh the underlying infrastructure can keep up with it right and that is not true if you are struggling today to provide um the the the the the block space to the to the developers and and you cannot control costs because you don't have a local fee market right and you have this kind of Noisy Neighbor problems some airdrop happening and all of a sudden my product I have to pay 10x or I have to pass the cost down to my consumer right

that that's not starter or well wait a year or so when we are finishing this then you have like you know a few acts of uh kind of TPS and we have now so guess what uh you know 10 years 10 minutes from now my business already collapsed and die because I can't people cannot use my product right you need to get to a assistant a design that you allow you to have this elasticity meaning you increase the name means increase Supply right ultimately you need to be able to deal with this by key on nature of Demands right which will sing over and over again in large scale product right when people are using it you have more machines to put Supply capacity right so so that is one

fundamental design criteria for us is scalability and scalability On Demand really elasticity um two well let's talk about things like you know composability right well guess what the assets today are not composable right think about it AMT a boy is a boy it's got some bites inside a smart contract they say it has a map say this is your boy this boy belongs to the address right it's trapped inside a small contract right you cannot say that asset can be composed with a certain asset and automatically boom you have a magical new assets right that's a mutant boy right this is obviously not a real

example but hopefully you understand the point right you want to be able to say I have an asset that represents let's say a hero in the game another asset that that's this sword right and I want to combine it and say now the hero has a sword well think about that right you have one of the design assistant that can do this arbitrary right because in the real world you don't know how things are going to be composed up front you cannot possibly program every permutation of that ahead of time so you need to have a fundamental system that can represent assets as arbitrary things and compose them together and and you want the asset to be live and can be updated that's through a better not be any generic sort because that's what right now the AFT

standard doesn't allow you to keep anything on chain it doesn't allow you to mutate them instead what I want is some asset that capture the law right if I am in in some game you know right that saw has been used multiple times to kill monsters and and bosses and all that that better be the history better be Unchained and better be part of my asset uh because then when I transfer the asset to another you know to another user that has meanings it's not just another instance of it right this is the one that killed the boss and speaking well by this hero who uh you know a legendary you know esport person right uh so composability the

ability to represent assets arbitrary asset in a way that doesn't have all the limitations uh then then you start thinking about okay well what is a programming model what is the developer experience how do you deal with Safety and Security issues right you know that's what the basis of what we have done over the years and move and we're just taking a step further because now you have a small contrast system that allows you to you know because of underlying system allow you to represent assets objects right now you have objects as input to a Smart contract that produce objects or mutate objects and that can be input to another smart contract right you're chaining all these

uh protocols together smart contract together that's composability adder you know protocol level then your composability of the asset level right so it's all these things together and have the best in class in terms of latency and finality and all that uh the ability to store things on chain right I think the ability to mutate things on share uh better language everything right so we want to build that right we're not really that interesting incremental so we're not really interested in fixing one problem at a time because we invest in a world where every products out there can just say hey I want to stop changing my product in a way so the end user have a bit more

ownership in a platform right that is rather than they're using a product that's built on top of a centralized Trust essentialized trust right it doesn't require them to change everything gradually decentralized a product even with your own ownership control the assets to another to the users and that's what we believe is going to get us to this magical world of mass adoption where the high the entire industry has become more real and bigger right so that's what we're going for uh so so hopefully that that is awesome uh to your question uh but that's that's

our philosophy and before I get too giddy on just trying to ask the next 10 000 questions about move and kind of how and the technicals just kind of given our our listeners a recap here so as far as um the scalability kind of front goes um the design of a in a blockchain to basically be able to match um the performance in terms of fees and kind of uh like uptime and just overall usability with the demand at certain times to make it more of a like like you say elastic kind of uh curve because there's not always you know a high level of demand like ethereum gas is not always you know 100 200 gray in fact over the last couple months it's been in

the tens um right so that you know but there was times in 2021 where it was in the 200s 200s for you know a week straight so kind of being able to have this uh more I guess demand based um block space price um kind of system there um allows for greater scalability and then on top of that this kind of level of um composability with basically taking um what we know in the ethereum space and in the EVMS ERC 20s or 721s and basically it like making new versions of these um based on different activities that have happened on chain which then allows a whole different array of applications

like like you hit on the gaming front I mean you can go for um things like the real estate market or retail sales even um kind of with things like this um you know um Goods in the real world and in the uh in the um in the Digital World um so kind of bringing that piece together as well um builds the system now you guys are doing this because of the programming language move which you have mentioned um snarkly that uh it is much better than uh the solidity language so kind of um on a broad technical scale would like to kind of understand some key differences

um and you know what what why those are important so either one yeah so so I think movie is designed uh you know reviews you know first you have to understand what what this is for right you know so so we established a blockchain is basically and kind of infrastructure that allow you know anybody you know products to you know create assets or represent real world Assets in like a digital way right so it's all about manipulation you know assets transfer asset combined assets right uh program against assets that's where the smart contract language come into the play right so you need to have assets

um you know and and the smart contract that's the magic you can allow you to do away with middlemen right you know having a decentralized database is one thing right having the programmability is what the magic is to allow the product to fundamentally eliminate all these inefficiency uh that requires a centralized entity to provide the trust and you know be the middleman right the Renaissance behaviors or confront that so so that's they started once you establish that then you realize the program language has to have this assets as a first cost concept right and without that you you you don't have this way to reinforce ownership uh to have access

control uh you know you know and and be expressing the Menace of the language so so that's the fundamental uh kind of things here that that's very very important to point out those are the key design points here for move right SS is first class you know Access Control building um you know and the ability to represent resources and rules and everything uh is what make it uh significantly different right so everything else and then one may ask well why not use it existing conventional language yes right you can bake that concept right in suicide libraries say on top of us and

all that say here's what represented assets and all that but then you have to add with things like instrumentation right you have to change things to constrain your language because it's not a general purpose language it's all about dealing with assets right so so that's why we took the route of building the design the language from the from the ground up uh our CTO same has uh had a podcast you know go into much more depth about the evolution the design The Thinking Beyond that behind it yeah but that's the sort of the high level gotcha awesome yeah I mean um we'll definitely put that link in the description there and kind of explore that sometimes it gets too technical

um but it's always nice to to kind of touch on those fronts and um another kind of pressing thing that comes to top of mind yeah go ahead in addition to the Stellar work assignment team has done on the Move we also feel like it's a more of a natural transition for uh traditional web 2 programmer to come in and actually build on web3 right you don't have to learn all the relative safety issues of um or the safety concept of the platform you don't need to be you know you know just like with validity there's a lot of quirks about it that you need to know as a developer to be able to get the best out of it and specifically if we think about the amount of bugs and errors right that I feel is a big

inhibitor of like growth in the space or even adoption like just having 100 million dollar hacks every on a regular basis is not it's not going to set the world on fire and sometimes thinking blockchain is the coolest thing right so taking away some of the Boiler code that people have to write for safety just to do a basic transfer that handled by the move virtual machine directly so if I transfer an asset from per se to person B if I want to make my own version of an asset the element of transfer burn and all the cool stuff that you want to do around asset making sure an asset is rare but also is limited in instruments that is handled fundamentally by the native move virtual machine and it's not something you need to program as a as a pro as a small contract developer yeah

you compare that to gonor and you might yeah I can touch on this a little bit right so so yeah fundamentally is making sure that digital assets behave like real world one physical ones right physical asset you cannot just create other than here right you cannot double spend you can uh destroy it just by accident right you cannot duplicate double spend and destruction right that's three of them very very fundamental characteristic right for any kind of asset right so the language that crisis and enforce this so it's taking away all those common mistakes you will make otherwise right so so that's the magical move um you know you know that's what uh heading is referring to

yeah in addition to being like an object um based um so the data model on on Suite is actually object-based and that transcends into the programming language itself everything in move in the three version of movies object based so I feel that's very natural in terms of how people will think especially if you're coming from a traditional permanent language you'll be able to grasp a concepts of three move very very quickly hey this new era of okay uh could you describe the progression from

the inside of Facebook uh and and how the Libre project kind of took a web 2 company and started to break into web three uh could you kind of just describe your journey and what learnings did you take from your time at Facebook and Implement into suite and missing labs right no no I I can speak to this right so you know Facebook you know uh recognize right you know um their product has one limitation right and that is the the product has been successful in in some a lot of the communication the committee you know Community problems right getting people

together communicate efficiently uh but taking that next step further is to allow them to transfer money as seamlessly as any with any data right messages of data piece of data right it's you type something in in the messenger app and the other side you receive immediately all of a sudden they don't you know they have this too they don't have to pay money to pick up phone and and pay for right that that that's powerful but whenever you want to do payment transfer money request paper order payments remittance is a big big concern right because that's a lot of those people rely on WhatsApp and Messenger to communicate with their

family back home why wouldn't they want to have that next step that's remitted to be as simple as as I right so that's sort of the Genesis of the the idea behind Libra in the first place right that is to make money transmission transfer to be as easy as seamless as data transfer right uh so what did we learn from that well so first of all we we learned a lot about what that came enable right we learned a lot you know just thinking working through other people in in the remittance space when uh working with people in the financial inclusion space right we realize how big opportunity is how much benefit they can

bring to the to the world we also obviously learned a lot about the the you know what not to do and how to engage with uh you know you know regulators and lawmakers and all that but I think the biggest takeaway for us was we can take that concept and generalize it further broaden it further why make money a special case right uh money is just one particular example of as an asset right if you generalize that that Vision to make any kind of asset transfer as easy it can be then again coming back to making it programmable right and that's when the magic happens right now now you're thinking about how

the product interaction model will change as a result and that's when you your eyes light up and you you realize that's the opportunity here right you know it's just very using a contrived example this is not happening this is you know I'm just like simplifying for the sake of you know giving you example right everybody talk about the creative economy the trend the move to solo entrepreneur right people don't want to work for a company they want to produce things then monetize the product they produce but they are relying on a platform to bring customer to the for the discovery problem now what they do is they show you now have to trust a centralized entity you know Tick Tock

Instagram you know YouTube all that right you give your asset you give away the asset the control the asset to the centralized entity they make the money then give you a cut in return right you see the property here the the you lost the control you don't know how it's going to be used you don't have any kind of transparency how they're being monetized how you're being paid fairly right now you mentioned the model where it's more collaborative between the producer the consumer and the platform I retain control my asset because it's on this open trusted you know platform right where you know the trust is distributed right it's not owned by a single

controlled by a single entity right now I retain control my assets the platform Tech talk Instagram of the world the the future version of them they say my job is not to take your asset into a black box control you retain control you give me permission to bring you customers right I can display for you right I help you with Discovery thing monetization go directly between consumers go find the consumer to the producer they get cut right right so that changed the model and the magic there is first decentralized the the trust aspect secondly using these programs a smart contract to do away with a lot of these you know unnecessary kind of you know

inefficiency in the middle right because even even further from that right like you because you now decentralized trust and you've increased efficiency significantly what you then gain is the ability to access broader markets right namely you can go into regions that you originally could not access either for whether it's a regulatory reason or maybe the price barriers or even competitive barriers that prohibit you from entering and now you can offer assets or digital assets to those who are unbanked or on the bank significantly right so you can if anything broaden the appeal of your platform and enable more people to have access right so that's very akin to the Facebook mission of like literally you know empowering and reaching as many people as possible with a platform to give them a lot of value whether it's communication building communities and

everything of that nature so I think it that is a great Mission and we think you know namely what we're trying to do is sui with a sweet platform is we think we can unlock that world for many institutions if not you know small Builders all the way to the mid Builders as well so if you want to build content you want to create content you want to own content you can use three as a platform for online doing that and then you can reach you can basically partner with the likes of Facebook or partner with likes of other platforms who have a broader reach to sell your content but if anything having that control actually gives a lot more flexibility to you as a Creator where you don't now have to trust the central entity you can take your content to where it's most

respected or where it generates the most amount of eyeballs so that power shift it's really transferring power from centralized entities now to individuals which actually is a great thing and I think if anything um creates greater efficiencies for Commerce to happen right yeah and I think that's it's that's one thing that we touch on a lot here on D5 slate show is just kind of this idea of banking the unbanked I feel like last couple years we've kind of strayed away almost in terms of D5 it's just kind of gotten away from the mission a little bit but I think like it's times it's project like what you guys are working on and times like such where you know you start to realize the broader importance of like Evan was saying in his example just a simple way for for um payments to be as streamlined

as you know texting or Whatsapp is right and things things like this then translate to people uh and businesses like Rob and eyes here who are creating content and putting things out there educating um right and we are you know beholden to Twitter and we we actually got off subseac and have our own website so we you know took that leap but there's there is there's a certain threshold that you can hit right but you still can't get away from the uh I guess like the Monopoly of the social media world as well as just kind of everything in that realm that controls and owns the IPS and and these things so it's definitely refreshing to hear the mission uh again uh especially you know

during these times it's definitely inspiring for for those who are listening as well um you know to kind of get involved uh with a project um you know specifically in these niches because those are those are two probably of the most I would say like easy ways for crypto to make an impact and blockchain to make an impact on the world like as soon as next year this year like they use our those are huge and easy um and so yeah it's it's I'm glad that you guys are tackling them um and I mean yeah if I could just even jump in right like you mentioned D5 which is very interesting to us right like we are big fans of D5 we the only problem we feel right now with D5 is it only reaches a small percentage or

portion of sliver of like the economy right not everyone has Assets in the first place so if you're doing naturalized lending well people generally don't have the typical collateral like I don't they might not have Bitcoin they might not have ethereum they might not have some other asset to onboard right but if you build a platform that allows them to build value and actually give access to that like let's say for example tomorrow it might be something to my own chain identity it could also be the fact that I'm generating income streams from social that I'm doing on chain like I'm generating post on chain directly on sui and I'm monetizing those posts directly and I can read that history of how I'm generating income and actually turn that income stream into something that's collateralized well now you've given someone access to credit that was never

enabled Credit in the first place I think another impediment of the growth is the fact that most of these things happen off chain you have a lot happening off chain that are locked in web 2 world and I'm not saying web 2 is bad web 2 is great at times where your web 2 is needed in terms of I think web3 is the way to go but I think if you can enable or at least have more bandwidth to access to allow more interactions on chain then you can build smart contracts around those on-chain engagements to actually drive more value for the end user and so I think there's an element of like unlocking new possibilities that were previously impossible as well which is why we think when you talk about bringing next billion people into into crypto it's not about just saying defy it's about unlocking stuff that we're

pretty much tied in you know like for example game game assets are normally locked on a web 2 server right they're stuck in AWS and Google Now you can take those game assets and move them off AWS and gcp put them on three directly and have the law in the history now you've unlocked new possibilities for people to monetize beyond what was in the game and similarly you start on Suite you can store tweets directly on chain you know rather than having a thread store on Twitter's um server store on the blockchain and now you can start a group generating new forms of businesses as a result so there's an element of like turning assets or previously on webview Services directly on web3 and then generating new forms of businesses which we want to empower we don't know all the possibilities of what people can build

but that's why we're here to build that platform and to make it easy for developers to build yeah yeah I mean there's there's definitely that element of like that's bringing you could even call them I just I guess just assets like whether it's tweets videos jobs um just anything that is basically creates value and stores value and when you frame it in a sense of like rather than trying to bring um I guess the value that already exists in the D5 or the web 3 world but rather why folk why focus on that then focus on the value that already exists in the real world because it's so much it's so much larger um and so yeah just bringing that in making it easy for you know different creators or different types of

businesses to kind of come in and I mean like you say like D5 is kind of a niche like basically Wales gambling casino I mean that's effectively what it has been now bringing in bringing in the ability for anybody across the world to kind of have access to different toolings or just a broader a broader system of Commerce really obviously changes the game for a lot of people who just need an internet kind of uh you know just a little bit of Wi-Fi and some um you know ambition to to kind of create something um so yeah I'd like to touch on your efforts on kind of bringing in web 2 uh or you know traditional devs into your project or kind of into the crypto space

um how has that gone you know what is that kind of learning process look like I know we touched on it a bit Evan with the Facebook kind of turnover but um are you guys seeing a demand for web 2 or traditional devs to come in you know what does that look like from your end um are you hiring yeah Evan do you want to go or should I jump in yeah so yeah I mean this this thing I mean you know there's a lot of um noise always made around like you know being late to the market and the web three it's a big you know Gap to grab existing web3 devs but the reality is that just not a lot of Builders are

web free anyway right it's a small market Facebook for example has tens of thousands of Engineers but I mean one project in Facebook probably has more Engineers than they are in like the web 3 in Thailand so the market is they're still early it's still early days there's still a lot of opportunities to educate the people in web 3 and in web 2 to bring them into Webster which is why we built a language that's actually very intelligible for someone in the web to to understand now to the end of who we bringing into a building we have people all over we have a lot of people who already building in the likes of um Solana or building in the East ecosystem that are now bringing projects for building new projects on innovating new projects directly on Suite because there are new unlocked opportunities that sui

just makes possible that they weren't able to tackle on previous platforms and they're now trying to engage and bring that to Marco Antonio which is very exciting for us separately we're working with traditional web 2 companies too I mean we are working well it was announcing work with net marble there are other large institutions that are going to be bringing games if anything AAA games who already have tens of millions of users directly onto Suite why because one there's assets can go from AWS now to three but more importantly now you have tens of millions of users who are playing games who now have a frictionless way to have ownership of their assets without a very complex user user onboarding process that web 3 normally challenges you with so it's actually quite broad but we think the biggest opportunity is actually in bringing the traditional web

2 devs who are building who are now thinking what are the new businesses are possible with distributed Ledger technology and can now see sui as a potential opportunity where they can maybe realize that where it wasn't possible I mean look it's before you know we're talking about 56k modems right and what did we have then we had you know we had Google we had very basic websites that was great but then when Broadband came we had Netflix and we had all these wonderful things I just weren't possible before and that's the same analogy we're trying to draw with sweet namely we are on the 56 MK download modem stage with um blockchains and now we want a blockchain that enables Broadband to namely new types of applications that have high throughput they have high demand for high

throughput low latency but actually they don't change storage as well to build more richer applications are more engaging for consumers so in terms of I mean the tldr is we're working with both web 3 and web 2 um Builders but we find that there's a lot more promise in the web 2 space because that market is significantly larger than what we have today it's about broadening the pie not trying to fight for the same pile everyone else is fighting for yeah I mean I think I think the the you know one thing to add to this right people tend a lot of people tend to think web Street products that different from web 2 product right you know if you think about you really think about yourself how do you use this decentralized technology to change aspects of the product right uh you know there's no such thing as a pure Webster

product right there's your front end it's still probably running on AWS or something right and there's elements of you know your applications that fits better with the existing technology right what we're talking about ultimately is the assets the ownership right that is the most important one if you can decentralize that that and give you the control back to the consumers right you have accomplished a lot fundamentally it does and then that doesn't matter if it's a web 2 product it's a web Suite product it's just a product that benefit users uh so that's that is the key thing that I think that's gonna you know we're you know we're focusing a lot that's why we're focusing a lot on solving product level problems right you know you can't just

keep on jumping up and down and say well you know decentralization is great you know ownerships you know so ownership of assets great right you also have to think about the product wouldn't be right what do the product Builder cares about what they care about cash acquiring customers right they think about engaging the customer or training the customer into paying customer right they think about retention engagement conversion all those things right you've got to build a technology that allow them to solve those problems so then they will be excited about improving upon the product using decentralized technology right if you're forcing them to say well let's you're gonna have to dumb down or introduce a whole bunch of

friction to the product because now you have the your consumer have to deal with paying fees in in crypto think about it or or getting air dropper nfts before they can jump in and play a game you are you are only building products for for for a relatively smaller audience right maybe that's required at this stage as you learn and experiment to see what is what what would work that that's absolutely cool we actually would love to support this project we want to work with them but let's also always fix think about what else we need to do to make blur the line between web 2 and web3 and just make it exceptional product experience that benefit users

right so that you know that's that's what in our belief is what web3 really is about is is not about this technology it's about the product and the consumer relationship right once we're seeing that change then Webster is real right now yeah let's start going that direction then that's great yeah and then I mean then there becomes like a native demand for usage of the technology because like right now I feel like there's a bit of a screaming into a dark hole in a sense like we're kind of yelling at everybody like I mean first was the bitcoiners like guys Libertarians like the government's corrupt like the money's not it's not

going to work and I mean we're seeing now and then we'll see in the coming years how the central Bankers you know play their play their their systems and you know we'll probably look back and be like those guys were crazy but right right and then we kind of got to ethereum and kind of web3 now we're like nfcs and Dows and kind of like yelling but like there's not a lot of like um there's not a lot of Reason per se necessarily for somebody to jump in but like when there's a application or a layer uh of applications like Suite or like a uh opportunistic kind of environment for somebody to either be a Creator or run a business or kind of do their marketing or do their whatever it is on a business or a culture sense then it's like the marketing goes from like

streaming to nobody to like almost the the product and the environment almost does it for you so I mean that's kind of there's probably going to be like that tectonic shift like you're saying where when we blur the lines but also where the the demand for using um web3 just outweighs any any cons or any kind of um other I guess factors that people may kind of uh contribute to their current uh processes whether it be in a business sense or a culture sense a money sense a communication content right we've you know we've discussed quite a few and um yeah I mean that's that's kind of the the feature of of where we're headed and it's it's obviously exciting and

um yeah I'm I'm kind of curious as we wrap up here what you guys are pushing forward um next couple of months uh to the next like kind of six months or so what's the road map look like what are you guys most excited about um there and uh yeah yeah I mean we're looking forward to launching our Tesla I mean our devnet has been running for quite a while now and we're gearing up to launch our test night within a month and the next lamp after test lab there'll be a few phases of testnet to harden the system even further and we are planning to do mainnet right after so the goal right now is keep um building the ecosystem um working with a lot of the builders who are working with the launch amms working on sweep

um do airdrops do the you know building games actual unchain games off-chain games in addition to like storing Rich content directly on Suite those assets we want to have on on day one for mainnap and they're all building right now and our our main focus right now is really building a platform and strengthen the platform to get it ready for mainnet awesome and can our community get involved on um testnet whether it be users devs um just jump in the Discord and kind of uh check it out we welcome everybody to join our Discord Channel um there's a lot I mean you find I'm always on there Sam's always on there our CTO a lot of our team is always on Discord engaging with the community answering questions so jump on

the Discord we there's a you could you can download the code and start building if you go to suite.io right now um You can actually download the SDK and start playing on testnet get some test coins so we're on devnet and start getting some test coins to start building right away but more importantly a lot of code samples if you want to write amms if you want to write any form of uh of of your nft we have a lot of samples already to start building and there's already a lot of apps you can start engaging with um there's also a slew of wallets there's um you know easy wallet is going to be launching there is um of course a suite wallet um the suet as well and you know there's also um you know um ethos wallet as well that you can download and stop playing with so the

ecosystem is already building very very quickly and we have a lot of Engagement so we'd love to have um any of your followers who want to participate um jump on Discord and start participating yeah I mean I'll add to that saying you know just education right I mean as we indicated earlier right our thinking is somewhat different uh you know we we design a blockchain that design the technology is also very different so a lot of the concept might be quite different right you know it's like for example on sui basically every asset is you know kind of AMT basically it's an object you can Define whatever looks like right it's you know uh so there's a lot of things to learn right you know I think I'll urge the The

Listener the viewers to say Hey you know let's let's have a fresh mindset let's let's learn let's read into this right because a lot of time in this space it's just so much noise and people sort of like kind of read the headlines only and sort of like try to jump into it and just say okay make some functions like this is you know this right this isn't moved in well guess what it's not just move right it's the entire design of the architectural uh it's completely different and why we're doing it right so my love to you know sort of you know we need to do a better job and we'll continue to educate uh everyone in the public about what the future of the technology should look like beautiful and um one thing that we ask

most every guest and we'll ask you individually is if you had to uh pitch and explain sui and Maison labs to anybody in the world who would it be and why would you pick this person or you know what would you say to them and I'll give you a minute here to kind of it's a good one yeah um it's interesting I think you know you know the person you know if I were to pitch that person um the criteria would be the uses they are decision maker for some major major

properties that a lot of you know product that a lot of people millions and millions or even tens of hundreds of millions people benefit from and they're already seeing you know the community are are asking for some changes right so I would say at this point you know I'll pitch to whoever's in charge of fortnite right and say Hey what if you can think about decentralized or giving away control the assets in the game you know very very subtle way right we're not asking you to change everything fortnite is an incredibly successful product as it is but what if you listen to the demand of the user they say well I want to have

the the schemes or whatever the assets I own in this universe to have meetings outside the universe right even as basically as you know you know maybe a a some kind of a way to to show off my assets outside the game well I want to say I want to capture the moment that happened in your gameplay session as a memorabilia and share with my friends that participate in the event you know and I want to display that and it's not just going to be a still picture it's going to have a whole bunch of laws and information around it about it and it's going to continue to change right so you know that will be that would be my choice right now

yeah I mean for me it would be someone who's running very relatively successful social media companies um we can think of many um I mean there's a reason why I think creators are going to be the ones we've gained who are the segment that gains some of the most in this ecosystem namely the powers going to them unlike the third party networks that exist today um I'll be pitch into the idea of like enabling direct publishing for creators and liberating the assets that they create and keeping them in the control for example every tweet that I make should go on chain and I can take that that tweet can be displayed on Facebook it can be displayed on Discord it could display it anywhere I want it's my choice right and anything I create

namely any picture I create on platform it's directly on chain and I can choose to display that anywhere I want and I can monetize that accordingly depending on the platform that I choose so if people are viewing it on Facebook I make money if people are viewing on Instagram are engaging with it on Instagram I get a share of the of the revenues on on the ad revenues right I think that collaboration with actually platforms more true to how they monetize namely it will be more about what value can I drive to these creators for the assets that they built when they build and and giving ownership directly to those creators accordingly so I think if I had to pitch anybody it would be major CEOs or decision makers of social media companies and in getting them to think about liberating created content onto

decentralized blockchains and giving that power back to Consumers yeah or achieved I would say I heard that Twitter is uh maybe undergoing management change right so I would love to have that social graph you might I'll be co-owned by the people who are part of their social graph have meetings and utility outside the trader app will be amazing yeah yeah that's awesome yeah guys thanks a lot for coming on kind of sharing the vision uh explaining the tech side as well answering some of our questions um we are always excited to be chatting about this technology learning um and kind of just helping our community get a feel for what's coming

so excited to get on the test net and try some things out and see how things run um and excited to get our community involved as well so thanks guys and um have a great weekend