DeFi by Design EP#78: The DeFi Experience w Brew Money

Transcript

welcome to d5 by design where we talk all things blockchain and cryptocurrency while striving to educate empower and enrich it's your boy andy and welcome back to the defy slate youtube channel smash the like button on this video that really helps us out and sit back and enjoy the content thank you very much in the midst of all this market madness we are just building away and keeping our heads down while ripping through so much just crazy nonsense that's happening right now um it's just yeah it's been it's been wild so um we're here today to discuss kind of the future of non-custodial defy um you know being able to bring in onboard users to

uh these platforms that basically are trustless we've seen what happened with celsius and with block fi and some other lenders and some other funds that are kind of in the cd5 world or the c5 world and kind of see what happens when you privatize your books um you know and you just have to trust other people or other companies to manage your stuff for you so definitely wanting to kind of get into the nitty gritty of uh uh why non-custodial is so important and no better than archerman from brew money um excited to kind of learn more kind of what they're building and uh where his head is at in the market you know is it time to buy

what you know what's is this a long bear market you know kind of what's coming you know what can we expect so um rob good morning to you top of the morning and how are you doing there's you know quite a bit of madness out there i think the mantra kind of all across the board uh with builders for sure is to stay patient and uh you know keep on building so that means just you know kind of staying true to uh to the principles and the fundamentals if you will and keeping those you know add at work keep on progressing so that they ultimately flourish um in the long run and and that's certainly what's going on you know i think with those projects that are still building such as brew money non-custodial assets are super

important for the reasons that you know the the babel finance and the celsius like andy mentioned don't overflow and spill over into like the on-chain non-custodial world as well obviously with liquidations and whatnot we're seeing some of that but there hasn't quite been uh like a like a you know on chain whether it's a compound or an ave or you know one of these more decentralized money markets uh fall to the same types of risks maybe we can dig into that a little bit so i'm super stoked to talk to archie men from brew money and learn more about the uh the platform they're building and i'll pass it over to archie men for a quick intro here thanks a lot rob and um thank

you so much for having me here uh a quick introduction about myself so i primarily come from a product background i've spent most of my career as a product person at early to mid-stage startups for close to 14 years now uh have seen multiple cycles of technology evolved started my career as a product manager for a mobile messaging app back in 2007 when iphones were just launching so have some level of appreciation like how world changes when you have a fundamental or paradigm shift in uh underlying technologies and i believe d5 and crypto is one of them for sure uh my journey with cryptos started somewhere around uh i would say 25 2016 uh when i had a bunch of young college

kids sitting next to me at my office and they were talking about like something around ethereum bitcoin and this was the first time i met somebody who hold help cryptocurrencies and i got like extremely curious like what this is about like i had read about it but this was the first time i was meeting somebody who owns cryptocurrencies so went home started reading up a bit started buying a bit of crypto and that's how i started my journey and specific to d5 like i discovered them i would say a bit late uh sometimes somewhere around 2021 and as i started going down that rabbit hole i think uh i came out with a conviction um that okay the future of banking and financial services is going to be built on this pure infrastructure and uh primarily because it is so much

operationally efficient and so transparent like there's no black box like anybody who's qualified enough can go and verify things out there right and but it has its own set of challenges like it's an awesome piece of technology but what makes it challenging is uh at least for the next wave of adapt adoption is like one it's like extremely complex in its current form and uh second like of course it's i mean there are different kind of risks involved and if you're not careful enough you can end up losing money and something that we have seen in last few months right so broadly what we are trying to do with brew money is like while staying true to the ethos of decentralization make it simple for a non-technical user to start dabbling in uh decentralized

finance start participating in this ecosystem and taking advantage of it and very early days like we have just launched the app on on test flight for ios users uh so we have a waitlist going so if you want early access just feel free to sign up and uh yeah hopefully we should be live on app store some sometime around uh august sweet so are we are are we uh in for a uh prolonged bear market what are your thoughts on what yeah i think that's a tough one but uh so if you look at uh cryptocycles right like okay like every couple of years you have this boom and burst cycle but i think what makes it different this time is uh there is a whole macro level change is also happening right like uh

bitcoin started at the beginning of like the great financial crisis like there's a prime crisis in 2009 and like almost a little more than a decade has passed and this is the first time we are going to see a cryptocycle which is in sync with a larger recession looming at our foresight right it is very hard to say how things will turn out but probably i mean it is safe to assume that maybe the next one to two years are going to be very difficult so but at the same time like these are the times when the most exciting projects come up so if you are a believer in uh like the whole decentralized ethos and ecosystem probably a good time to keep keep a watch out and look at for good projects

yeah that that's a super you know relevant uh point you make about kind of like the the nature of the projects that are launching in these market conditions where you know they have the conviction of decentralization to actually you know succeed in in the sphere whether it's a bull market or a bear market there's like very little fear to those projects by launching in the midst of kind of like these you know subtle market conditions um and and yeah certainly keep an eye out because not you know from uh from a builder's perspective and a founder's perspective these projects are particularly interesting and from an investment perspective they also tend to attract kind of like the the crowd when you know the entire environment is risk

off and and there's a lot of like appetite for risk and these you know in the crypto markets there's lots of degens and and it kind of you know naturally attracts volatility the the you know d gen crowd is really attracted to like these these isolated projects that end up doing well and they tend to attract a lot of risk in you know what what seems to be like a you know fairly risk-off environment kind of all across the board um you mentioned kind of like the the paradigm shift of you know the traditional financial system crypto like introducing uh you know the the decentralization ethos and then some benefits that that come as a result of that could you you know unpack like that

that paradigm shift a bit more and what what ends up happening as a result of the paradigm shift is it you know all of finance kind of represented on chain is it like a mix between off chain and on chain finance could you kind of you know paint maybe what what that picture looks like in the in the mix of this paradigm shift good um that's a great question i think uh i mean to think about it right like essentially uh okay it's not going to happen overnight probably it will take its own time but uh let's look at it like how the world exists today and what decent life finance enables right like if you look at it like essentially uh so i'll give you an example about myself

so essentially uh up until like four five years back it was no so i live in india bangalore right and somebody who is working in a tech space fairly up to speed what's happening in the global tech ecosystem and all it was incredibly hard for me to own a piece of equity for a company like let's say alphabet or uber or all of this emerging new technologies like which which impacted us like there's all these products we are using here in india also and that's the kind of siloed world we existed in and what decentralization enables right like one of those that is permissionless like a person from india a person from u.s or somebody from nigeria can participate in an away pool nothing is going to stop them if they have a cryptocurrency wallet with them right so that's an incredible

incredibly interesting aspect where it from day 0 the infrastructure is built in a way where it enables global participation the second aspect is uh this whole aspect of of auditability like every financial institution out there with exchanges we banks like end of the day they are extremely opaque you don't know what exactly is happening behind the nose right whereas all this taking all of that and writing converting that into an open source code and an open way of execution like it's not just open source code like people can actually audit how it is getting executed on blockchain that makes it extremely interesting which uh at least i believe in long run will give rise to a much more robust ecosystem like today we are extremely i

mean i would say uh there's a lot of noise and valid criticism around the volatility around hacks the technology risks that exist in this whole ecosystem but what we are missing out is that this ecosystem is evolving at an extremely fast pace so it will give rise to a much robust ecosystem now how that will pan out hopefully like to f i don't know maybe it will happen in five years or maybe 10 years but it's a much more inclusive in infrastructure where anybody can participate take out loans get the best pricing deals and in a much more efficient way so hopefully like in this timeframe you would start seeing more traditional uh uh like financial instruments like be it

securities mortgages like coming to on chain and uh a larger participation and acceptance from the governments also will lead to i think a completely new kind of world that we are getting towards yeah what do you think about the uh the us sec approving the inverse bitcoin etf before yeah i think the timing is uh i agree i mean i'm not really too stoked about it but it's a reason development it's a bit of bummer but let's see how that turns out see i mean the way to look at it like all of this is the bottom of phenomena and and it challenges the status quo like we are

talking about institutions which had been in the ecosystem for i don't know centuries and decades and all right but uh hopefully the ones who hop into it and probably have an open mind towards it can leverage the benefits it can deliver to the humanity yeah yeah i mean it is it is yeah i mean it's so funny like that if it's using the same underlying asset what's the reasoning for the inverse versus the positive um and it kind of goes to show like there's just a divide between like the traditional world of these financial contracts and the

kind of new world if you will of of the on-chain finance and just i mean i guess i took a more tokenized economy right rather than like like these these contracts that are put in place uh obviously smart contracts and financial contracts are somewhat similar but on the on the essence of like the regulatory approval and and kind of like the closed off nature of the traditional finance world it doesn't it doesn't give way to like you know these these more uh maybe intuitive strategies or more more uh friendlier or just you know comprehensive strategies that provide like the the risk appetite that someone is

actually seeking and it you know it's kind of like i don't know it's it's against cd5 you know it's kind of like these two worlds clashing and there's positives that come you know as a result of that the the massive growth of the industry is somewhat attributed to like a coin base and ftx you know attracting these users and giving them a centralized place to trade and interact with the the tokenized economy but then you have the more dinosaur you know prehistoric world that's still stuck in like this you know etf kind of uh approval i guess and i'm curious kind of how brew money fits into this into this picture is it is it firmly in you know the d5 world or

does it combine some aspects of of centralization and decentralization to to provide like you know the the perfect recipe got it um so essentially um okay i mean if you look at the evolution of this whole crypto space right like and there is this interesting thing like coinbase actually started as a cryptocurrency wallet it actually started as a hosted bitcoin wallet and then eventually evolved into exchange and things started like taking up from there [Music] but uh and this whole construct or the phenomena of cd5 emerged because probably the whole at an infrastructure level we were not ready to build products which uh could have onboarded like

uh the mainstream users uh into this ecosystem right of d5 right but i think that has changed significantly in last two to three years like you have uh scaling solutions on ethereum emerged such as polygon zika sync optimum optimism and arbitrary so i think there is a significant change that has happened in last two three years which enables us to build consumer-facing user-friendly applications while still staying true to the decentralization and that's exactly what we're trying to do with which brew money so we have consciously taken an uh approach of uh building this as a non-custodial wallet so there are no centralization pieces of course there is

a very strong on-ramp component involved to it where we allow users to deploy funds to apple pay or plaid but once it is converted into a fiat into a stable coin it's your own wallets your own keys um so that's the approach we have taken having said that i mean that doesn't solve all the challenges that exist from a user experience standpoint i mean we've solved for uh let's say faster settlement lower fees than all but managing the past phrase and seed phrase is still a complex problem statement right and we have some ideas that i think there is some innovation that has happened in that aspect also like how we can solve for it uh but the overall vision for brew money is to build it in a way where it stays true to decentralization and broadly two reasons for it like one is of course like there

is a principal aspect to it uh but there is a more pragmatic reason also like uh there was this very interesting imf report that was published i think couple of months back where they talked about the operational efficiency between decentralized finance and centralized finance and guess what like decentralized finance is operationally way more efficient than what traditional finance has to offer primarily because like it's all automated it's all auditable anybody can audit it and it's from day 0 it's interoperable right so i think like the benefits go beyond just the principles of self custody you this infrastructure is going to be way more efficient than what exists today and broadly that's the theme that we are betting on and that's why we're building blue money as

a non-custodial wallet yeah so are you seeing like stable coin yield and like brew money as a replacement for somebody's like savings account or is it like riskier than that like like what are your thoughts on like d5 as a savings account um you know like is that the angle that brew money is trying to take or is it more of like a uh like um like a yield uh generating account with obviously some like risk involved i mean clearly there's risks but like i'm just curious if if we can think about using like ave or you know some like really steady protocols as like a savings account like

kerr et cetera or if it's just still like just not there yet okay now that's an interesting question and which brings me to a recent development that has happened right so uh compound finance they took their uh permission product and got an s p um rating on it and uh okay it was not a great rating they got a b minus rating or something like that but it's a start so i would say today definitely there are risks involved in this whole ecosystem where you where you cannot claim that okay this is an exact replacement of a checking or savings account there are some marginally higher risk involved but these risks are marginal at least for some of the mature protocols to think about it but we have already started that journey

where some of these protocols like over a period of time can actually be as uh robust almost as possible as to a traditional banking account of course like you don't have a us government backing but it has the right set of safety controls in place and uh if you think about something like our way like they have seen multiple market life cycles they have gone through multiple um uh like i mean they grew from a couple of millions to like a couple of billions now right like and it's while it is still small i believe like in next two years what you're going to see is going to be much more higher in terms of quantum uh so to answer your questions we are probably not exactly there but it will get there like in next few years and uh the way we are building brew money is

essentially hey guess what like of course you i mean we don't expect you to move all your money into money like all your money that you hold with your bank account but what we are trying to do is like you can move a part of it and in addition to that building utilities that while you are also earning yield you can use that money over a period of time so like the end state vision that we have for romani is like can we building utilities like uh doing a peer-to-peer transaction or a merchant transaction can we issue a credit card those kind of stuff so that you're not just holding the money and earning yield but you're also able to use it on a day-to-day life but i would say that we are still a bit away from it but hopefully we'll get there yeah i mean people see the the solid

yields and want um to get a part of it but they're always curious like kind of what the what the risks are indeed find it's even tough to explain the risks to people um yeah i mean but the stable coin yields i mean they should be you know solid for a while at least more like more um yield than uh than traditional because of just the risks involved um yeah i'm curious what you think like do you think stable yields are gonna like stay five six eight percent like what we're seeing right now nine percent like that's about what is average like what do you think like is is when bull market returns if that happens anytime soon

you know our stable yields go higher you know or do they stay low if we have an extended bear or kind of like like a lot of the stable yields that we saw during d5 summer and kind of like 2020 and 2021 were off the back of token emissions and also a lot of people borrowing stables to like go long or to you know go rehypothecate elsewhere i'm curious like what your thoughts are generally on on stable coin yields over the coming months and years got it so um i i mean for this conversation probably i will limit myself to like two specific family of protocols which is like let's say lending protocols and the different liquidity pools or stable coin liquidity pools in uh decentralized exchanges like

what balance have you been strapped right so one way of looking at it is right like uh okay just to answer your question to start with like short term we will probably see a compression in terms of yield that we're seeing this is primarily an outcome of lower activity happening on chain right like most of these yields beat lending protocols or uh like on liquidity pools where a function of total trading that was happening in the ecosystem but uh what we believe like over a period of time let's say two years three years down the line as more and more liquidity comes in like more use cases emerge i think these yields will slowly start trending upwards both for uh and there's a fundamental uh reason behind it like if you let's take a case of a lending protocol like our way right

uh something that i mentioned earlier like the operational overhead is way lower than a traditional finance bit which means that okay something like away or some some compound can actually pass on more value to the lenders and borrowers right so if you take it like at a steady state if you one-on-one comparison with a traditional finance versus something like a decentralized finance consumers customers will have access to better value on a decentralized finance bit right the second bit is like let's look at decentralized exchanges like i mean even if we look at it today like uh i think uni swap at its peak was doing about 70 of a daily volume of uh coinbase or something like that and it's best case scenario

imagine like what happens when like these volumes go up 10x or 15x over a period of time right so the the total uh yield that you're generating from these different trading fees will go up because the activities will go up the volumes will go up uh of course there is another approach of supply but eventually i think that uh while in the initial five years of d5 or four years of d5 a lot of this yield was generated or or i would say artificially inflated by uh liquidity mining token emission and all another three four years probably it will be more organic in nature because of larger participation in the ecosystem so yeah short term we are probably headed

towards a bit of pain where probably yield will be anywhere between one to five percent or eight percent i mean it all depends on what kind of the spectrum you are playing with but a couple of years down the line i think considering it's a more efficient infrastructure a larger participation uh people should have access to much higher wheels nice yeah i'm i'm i think i think we're on the same page it's just it's a matter of risk and just you know who's participating and what how much activity is happening um you know it's just crazy like that like blockfi i'm reading that they lost 280 million dollars in the bull market um it's just crazy they're offering so much stable yield you know and not able to

to you know just get it in the bull market like what are your thoughts on the recent blow ups of like celsius and three arrows and kind of all this like with leverage in the system and um you know these types of things what are your how do you how are you interpreting kind of what's happened over the last few days weeks yeah uh okay this might be a bit uh a bit controversial opinion that i have but i think uh like when you think about cd5 right i think it's worst of both worlds like it has the volatility and the risk involved in decentralized finance and the oppacnes of centralized finance and in a space where at least traditional finance had some regulators in place had some

guard rules in place and there were no cargos over here and the unfortunate thing is like when customers started onboarding themselves into these platforms they didn't have complete knowledge about what kind of risk they were taking right i mean there were so many twitter spaces and online events where people were saying like look this is as safe as your bank account which was not true like there's lot of risky stuff happening on the background and we're seeing it blow up right now uh so whatever has happened like a lot of people have lost money it is very unfortunate and sad but i think one silver lining that i can take from this whole events that has happened is that an increased awareness in terms of users around it's not only about the yield but where that is coming from like what exactly

are you deploying your funds into right and that transparency probably will lead to the next set of evolution because that is what decentralized finance is built around like everything is open you can go and audit the code or you can at least read up about more experts not just a certified expert but actual experts who know what what's happening and talk about like what kind of risks are being taken so i think that's one silver lining that i have uh which hopefully and surprisingly will act as a catalyst for the next uh i would say phase of growth for d5 yeah that's uh that that could be a controversial take but i i support it because you know you you're bringing like the clock like when

these worlds collide it's you know either taking the benefits of of either one and putting them together and kind of building out a better you know system overall or like you're saying it's kind of taking the the the pieces that are detrimental and putting them together that ultimately like almost like a frankenstein looking product because there's not there's not cohesiveness between the centralized world and the decentralized world kind of i think you did a you know awesome job of kind of outlining like the issue there what is there a potential solution that that you have in mind or is it kind of just like wait and see what unfolds um

[Music] i mean very early to say like how the solution would look like if you have to rephrase the question like what could have celsius or block fight done differently right like uh and like celsius always had this uh i think they had a statement like proof of reserves or something like that like they used to talk about it but if they had actually implemented that okay guess what like when you put put in your ethereum or put in your bitcoin or put in your stable coins into celsius this is exactly the trace and these are the things that's happening and explain it in a way in which a regular person could have as opposed to just blankly claiming that things are safe i think that would have been a better approach i'm not against what the shape in which the product was

done like was built because it was needed like the technology was not there but i think the approach should have been more transparent like okay this is the kind of risk you're taking and this is what you're getting into i mean this is the kind of return you can get but this is also the potential downside you are exposed to so i want and i think this was possible with the existing side of technology like at least you could have built a trace and published like okay this is where your assets are or where the different exposure is it really is the worst of both worlds with the opaqueness and the risks um

i mean it's just crazy that it started with the ust collapse which kind of led to all of the of of what's happened now um that's why we kind of are preaching the non-custodial route being so important um yeah so kind of how does how does brew money take the non-custodial route what does that look like you know kind of what happens on the back end there and um you know what what are you guys looking to offer and how you know who are you trying to onboard got it so uh maybe i'll start with like who we are trying to onboard first right like so globally uh and this is a report like couple of months back right there are about 200 to 300 million people who hold cryptocurrencies so that's an encouraging development that

has happened right like we have taken that shift towards hundreds of millions of people holding cryptocurrencies today but the number of people who have participated in decentralized finance ecosystem is like probably less than 10 million and uh this is exactly the market we are trying to uh tap into right like there are people who have taken that leap of faith on on crypto assets and now we're trying to say that guess what like there is much more that you can do with them uh in addition to like okay holding these assets for speculating on those assets now from a solution standpoint like the way we are building brew money is like it's essentially a non-pastoral wallet and we have started with polygon chain primarily because we found its ecosystem fairly mature and it had some of the

i would say blue chip defeat protocols already deployed on them like unifla balancer and uh curve and arvin and um the idea is that okay while this is non-custodial because it is built on polygon like we are able to subsidize the gas phase so from a consumer experience standpoint it's something very familiar and similar to like some of the leading fintech products that you might have used it's say venmo or cash app or something like that so you load up this wallet with uh using your fiat through apple pay and uh we like abstract out all the complexities like once you deploy funds deploy dollars into grow money like we convert it into stable coins we show you that okay this is this part of the money is

going into rbi protocol and if you are interested in slightly higher risk we can talk about liquidity pools and this is how so you know exactly like what where your dollars are getting deployed which protocols they are getting deployed what kind of liquidity these protocols have what kind of securities they have what kind of tokens you are rolling into so you have complete visibility into the exact instruments you're defining your funds into and we do it in a completely non-custodial way we allow you to manage your seed phrase uh but at the same time we subsidize the gas fees for you so that you don't have to worry about some additional over it like think like figuring out that okay you need matic if you're operating on polygon or you need something else if you're operating on some other chain um so that's the thought process right

now we are integrated with just away on polygon but uh like couple of weeks down the line we will be launching with balancer and then we have some exciting uh ideas around integrating and onboarding uh more protocols have you heard about the uh polygon um like their own like like their own roll-up kind of subnet concept yeah yeah uh i haven't done a very deep research into it but yes uh i've just read the headlines but yes that that sounds i think i mean subnets z casings application specific uh like uh networks i think they are fairly exciting development do you see like a a landscape where it would make sense for brew money to kind of launch its own sub chain

something like a polygon like a roll up onto polygon um we haven't to be very honest we haven't thought about it yet uh like uh as of now we're focused primarily on the pos chain of polygon we're also looking into a couple of other chains like optimism and uh exploring technologies like z casing like that makes it easier to go directly on aetherium but yeah yeah the uh scalability uh like the scalability landscape is really is really turning now like with the the alternative layer ones kind of like showing that there is a use case at

least in the meantime while ethereum is still scaling up at the at the base layer it's created like this vacuum if you will of these different like scalability solutions whether they're whatever you want to call them layer ones layer two zk sync rollups like it's all kind of like different formats of the the attempt at scalability and it seems like the proof of stake uh blockchain framework is what opens up accessibility to like the to the masses um proof of work i think is still important in like a hard money sense but in terms of like you know accessibility and providing the the network to the most amount of people

and kind of directing that value it seems like proof of stake is the way to go and it you know kind of it makes sense for like the stakers to be aligned with kind of the projects the ecosystem and chain overall so the modularity of how these different networks start to combine whether it's you know a roll-up that supports just high scalability or if it's a roll-up specific for a type of industry it'll be it'll be one is kind of like you know why launch a chain if it makes sense to launch a chain and kind of doing so if it does but then it's it i think a matter of which other chains you're tapping into and

one i mean evm is just is you know super uh important in that sense and just the crux of the ecosystem as it provides like the the bridges and the the transferability across these different chains um so i i guess yeah i see a world where it's like kind of you know the interoperability provided by something like the evm but then the modularity that opens up the access for the masses provided by application specific chains like you're saying and i'm excited about the options and the opportunities that open up as a result of increased scalability i think like we can hardly imagine it's

kind of the the applications that are are available once you know we increase throughput 10x 100x yeah is there is there like applications that you see that are kind of limited by the current scalability like you know if uh transactions were even cheaper and even faster is there is there something that you'd like to do on chain that you can't now but you see you know scalability once it opens up kind of providing that that use case as in um i think uh one aspect from a scalability

perspective right like the uh that we're looking at is how do you bring in um like some of this okay i don't have a great answer for this but essentially like see one thing is for definitely that's established is that we are headed towards a multi-chain world right and i mean there will be ecosystems like different protocols different use cases built on different chains or sub chains and those kind of stuff but this whole aspect of how we move assets between multiple chains in an easier and cheaper way i think that's a that's the problem statement we're closely looking at and figuring out if there are infrastructure solutions that

can come up around that like can bridges become cheaper and better uh because everything that they're doing right is centered around to be very honest like around the next mainstream set of users like the golden use case we look out is that can somebody get started with a 100 or 500 deposit like in less than in couple of seconds and we are very far from there yet like right from the on-ramp experience to moving things through multiple chains or from one chain to a protocol uh it is still it takes a couple of minutes it's still shaky we have to do a lot of work to make it happen uh i think that is one aspect we are closely looking is uh like even if you're onboarding a user on chain a but there is an interesting financial instrument on chain b can you

make that transition easy right and of course there are a lot of interesting solutions coming up but we are still not there so that's one area that we are closely looking at and hoping for some interesting development over the next few uh in the short term so is is brew money going to try to make like it it's it's effectively trying to make d5 easy for for people yeah uh andy sorry i really lo i lost you for a second i said yes so brew money is effectively trying to make d5 easy for people yeah i mean the idea is simpler safer

and more accessible right yeah i feel like i feel like d5 is missing those kind of like middle layer products from like metamask to like block fi is like the what we have we got like super decentralized or like fully custodial and centralized and we kind of yeah we're missing that kind of fintech app non-custodial easy to use kind of yeah the on ramp i think is kind of like the the key element of brew money and archimonde correct me if i'm wrong but the the plaid integration kind of provides that accessibility benefit that that something like a doc fire a ftx would provide but then once you're over

that once you're kind of through the portal you have the token and you can go and interact easily in in a you know easy to use you use your experience that it provides just as much decentralization as metamask but actually getting your funds there initially is is much easier than something like metamask and more akin to something like blockchain or celsius or you know yeah exactly i mean think about this a scenario right like let's say i'll talk about the simplest use case you want to say make a deposit on our way on on l2 chain like polygon or something like that right a very typical journey would be like you buy some stable coins on him

on a centralized exchange like coinbase move it to your metamask wallet then bridge it to l2 chain and then go and deploy it on our way right so the multiple steps in between and each of those steps like once there is friction and there's then there is a cost involved uh so what we have done is like make this on-ramp directly on l2 and like compress all of these steps into a single click and uh so that's the idea so you got it right yeah and that accessibility will will branch out into users that one i think there's an ethos of of kind of financial uh openness and um like that that goes to accessibility so like kind of banking the unbanked right

was like quite a bit narrative going back to like the early bitcoin days it was like yeah you know this is like you know a bank for those who don't have access to a bank um and you know we've kind of seen like this apprehension towards banks overall over the last like few few years with the introduction of decentralized finance so i'm curious kind of like what your take on fintech overall is and like where that's heading as you know brew money is is kind of on the on the the epicenter of kind of both of those industries you have technology kind of you know reaching like a faster and faster pace and the globalization of

kind of technology is bringing these industries together and then the financial aspect is bringing value to each of the users that are within kind of like these these ecosystems and these communities um so i'm curious just kind of like where you see fintech going in relation to the banking industry where you know there was just a few banks you know early on is it you know like what where are we headed is you know are we going towards a position where everyone is their own bank and kind of like what what is that what does that look like okay um so i think i've been definitely if you look at the last 10 years right there 10 to 15 years i mean

uh fintech has played a very uh important role in like improving the financial uh accessibility and and the experience itself like things like venmo things like cash app uh robin north or the equivalent in india have made uh like access to all these different financial instruments and use cases much simpler for for the mainstream folks and which reflects in the kind of uh adoption they have seen right like robin hood probably has around 20 30 million users when more probably much higher and so on but end of the day like all of these i think one thing that was tying them this uh whole uh phenomena to go to the next level is like all of these are best on

the current legacy infrastructure right each country has its own set of infrastructure which has its own gaps and now we are slowly moving towards this world where you have this emerging blockchain ecosystem that enables so many different interesting use cases and things that was not even possible before so uh and so i'm pretty sure you guys would have read about like robin hood is planning to come up with its own website wallet right like they finally listen to their users and they're coming up with a non-custodial wallet which will have not only gasless uh i would say um crypto exchange kind of bit but also they're thinking about some deep ecosystem so that that's kind of a uh interesting positive sign that we're seeing that traditional and severe water use but traditional

fintech companies taking that plunge into the decentralized ecosystem and trying to like reinvent themselves uh coming to the next part like where you said like do we see a future where uh everybody is their own bank um [Music] i really hope we get there uh because if you look at the traditional finance bit like there's still like about one one and a half billion people who have not been banked yet and there is a journey to be covered there and if you look at cryptocurrency wallets like end of the day if you have a smartphone and internet access you you can get banked it is possible for you don't need anybody to like onboard you into an ecosystem you

you just need to install an app and you're done and that's a very powerful concept and much needed in the world today i mean it is we just need to get to that place so i really hope we get there and uh but a lot of things need to fall into place for that like governments acceptance a lot of safety things getting created within the deaf ecosystem and of course there is a significant push around the user experience but yeah and i feel like that's what that's where you guys are trying to come in and provide that better experience easier more uh streamlined um is going to make a big difference for everybody involved

um just being able to have that you know fresh and just easy you know just easy to operate almost as if it was you know a traditional app that we use catch up or venmo or these types of things here in the states and um yeah i mean bringing bringing d-fights to that level is is definitely the the the next logical step um yeah so i i'm i'm curious kind of if there's any other other ideas of like products or offerings that you thought about creating within the app like aside from just the stablecoin yield um is there anything that you know has crossed your mind borrowing or um you know kind of what what are your thoughts on the evolution

of like what you guys can offer so i mean the whole idea is like we're starting with the stable coin yield because it's one of the obvious value proposition and use cases to start with uh but the idea is that okay eventually expand into uh like more robust constructs that can we provide some kind of safety construct also in place like if you're putting into a slightly higher risk instrument can you also bundle in an insurance on top of it like in in a single click we're thinking about like are there ways we can issue credit from these apps that's because we know that okay this is how much you you you have on your wallet so maybe you're good for this much of lending uh we're also thinking about like

and these are use cases we are still trying to figure out how to execute but can you pay your rent from your blue wallet right like can you receive your part of your salary directly into a non-destructive wallet today you can do that on your coinbase exchange but can you get it directly on your coin on a self-custody wallet so the whole idea is that not only enable users to earn yield but also allow you to like use that money so but of course it's going to be a long journey um getting it one step at a time yep i'm with it so as we kind of wrap up here i'm curious you know what are your uh what are you guys building what's on the road map kind of in the next few months leading into the end of the year what are you most excited about um yeah

yeah i mean we have one more protocol so we integrated with away got a grant from them which was super cool uh and congratulations to you guys too i know like you got a grant from away um we are uh integrating balancer which should go live within a couple of weeks we are thinking about a peer-to-peer use case like imagine like you hold money in your venmo it doesn't give you any interest but you hold it on your brew money wallet you can do peer-to-peer transactions and you're earning money on top of it i think that's gonna be pretty cool and uh something that we are really excited about uh but we are still trying to figure out like if there is some way you can set up business rules where okay x percentage of a salary lands into your wallet gets split into two three different protocols that you

have chosen so uh these are some of the short to midterm goal um items that we have in the roadmap and we're working hard towards it sweet well thanks for coming on arches man it's been a pleasure excited to see how you guys grow and move forward and um yeah man scale and defense to the mass man thank you so much andy thank you rob uh thank you so much for having me have a great day bye