DeFi By Design EP#56: New Era of Money Markets in DeFi

Transcript

welcome to d5 by design where we talk all things blockchain and cryptocurrency while striving to educate empower and enrich it's your boy andy and welcome back to the defy slate youtube channel smash the like button on this video that really helps us out and sit back and enjoy the content thank you very much what's going on guys welcome to episode 56 of the d5 by design podcast yo yo yo today is ens airdrop day we got it and these boys did not uh that sucks for benjamin and the team um just messing around we met these lads over in lisbon um glad to be chatting now back and home they are actually still out in lisbon which is super cool because the salon event is going on and um yeah

things are hitting all-time highs twitter is going absurd i'm pretty sure we got hashtag gm trending yesterday um i'm not really sure what's happening at this point um but yeah we're here to talk about interest rates no i'm kidding we don't like interest rates here at cheetah um yeah no all things d5 today some lending stuff some multi-chain stuff uh perhaps some new kind of um you know important and relevant protocol stuff um and yeah we're gonna talk about cheat out what's important there and what they're building looking forward to learning a bit about um you know some important and cool new kind of primitives in d5 that we haven't really seen yet so pass it over to rob and let's get it rolling rob yeah i'm on it's uh it's about

10 40 on november 9th we're looking good like andy said everything's all-time highs we're rocking and rolling um stoked to be here talking to the guys from cheetah um it was really cool meeting everyone at lisbon and uh there there's just been so many super cool conversations that started there and now we've gotten a chance to continue like through podcasts through through twitter and whatnot um yeah it's uh it's super cool talking to you guys and and uh excited to hear what we got going on over at chidao uh the multi-chain world and everything going on um behind my finance so i will pass it over to uh benjamin and crew and uh let you guys introduce yourself

yeah man thanks thanks for having us um like they said we met over at lisbon some crazy conversations man i feel like it's so cool having everybody together um sharing awesome ideas people are building new things uh but yeah so a little bit of background i'm i'm benjamin core team here at chidao um yeah yeah howdy kila also a core team over here at uh cheeto um i don't know did we bump into each other at le in elizabeth oh yeah at the gelato party we were trash dude oh me too man but the gelato was great it was so cold but i kept drinking man keep having my ice cream yeah i probably had my shirt off at that event as i tend to do it it was towards

the later time what it was like 50 degrees man it was freezing it doesn't matter i take my shirt off it's just like a progression of the night no matter the weather yeah yeah you know definitely um that's definitely so you know if you have a button down you got to make sure you take one button down for every airdrop that you get throughout the night exactly i'm glad you call it a button down because some people call them a button up and yeah no it's buttoned down baby that's what you're doing that's a little that's a little too formal for our liking so what kind of shirts do you guys have on there now right i'm rocking the the graph shirt um i get stopped all the time i'll see if i work for the graph of

course i got the gnosis on also just uh let's call swag you never have to shop man yeah i know if you keep going to events like you never really do have to shop i was just in abu dhabi as well for the for the phantom uh phantom dc event got tons of swag i am like i'm set i'm good how was that event oh it was [ __ ] fantastic it was it was crazy because it was very extravagant but the thing was that there wasn't too many people there there was about 200 people there which was a really great size because you got to meet everybody you got to really connect with them get to speak with them it was over like a long like a longer period of time as well so it was like uh four to

five days around and yeah it was just yeah it was it was fantastic hopping in their first day cz from binance was there so like it kind of already set the stage like what the [ __ ] like what's going on um andrew was there right yeah yeah andre was there um pablo from our team got to speak there as well give a little speech about stable coins no i mean a lot of people were there from the family community lots of good alpha as well you guys just uh just moved there right some of your protocol or how'd that go uh we're nomadic man so depends on the second you ask us like where we are it's just uh i mean i'll be i'll be uh i'd rather the next driver for sure if uh if

you want to guess where i'll be so was it was it a like super you know like just very bullish and powerful event or was it kind of like a show fest like like what made you guys want to transfer cheetah and and kind of open up there as far as the protocol on phantom i mean phantom has a pretty sweet deal uh for new projects like if you have five million in tbl they'll give you three million dollars um not bad they give you a million million phantom which is like yeah is yeah three million dollars or or more i don't know what the price is right now but yeah it's something it's really continued

just to build basically just to continue it's a blank check it's a black you can do what you what you want with it but it is one of the best like incentive programs that they've that there is in d5 because also with a lot of different protocols it's like yeah you know submit a proposal you know the lobbying you never know how much you're actually going to get they ask you all these questions about like what are you gonna do with it with phantom it was just like hey look come and build um if you build something cool and people like it and you have tvl then we'll give you we'll give you this money uh it's it's again not all up front like you have to you have to have that tvl for like two months and then they start giving it to you and it's like 12 months yes it over

12 months you can get up to like you can get a lot of money let me just say yeah uh and it's very good i mean it's a dao i mean all of that goes to our people but um very good deal yeah and also it's very open like i we deal with a lot of chains now that we're doing this multi-chain expansion and phantom like i went to our telegram started talking to one other mods and within like five minutes i was in a chat with their ceo cmo cto like all they see whatever and like everybody now yeah let's get on a call that's how far is the chat let's have you launch uh let's help you out guys yeah um you don't get that with every chain yeah that definitely did stand out i mean when we launched we had retweets we we

had the cmo come on for a fireside chat i'm sure they're behind a lot of the the phantom accounts tweeting about us yeah there is quite nice yeah yeah a lot of support a lot of support yeah the ftm alerts guy austin um if you were out there i'm sure you met him he's a he's a big chiller yeah yeah yeah yeah we really like him yeah austin austin's great he actually just made a made a video kind of walking walking through cheetah and um yeah we really we hit it off over there in abu dhabi uh he's also renting out a big like a big house in miami when uh when like the bitcoin conference is happening in miami and so yeah we may yeah here we go we may be visiting miami in january

yeah we need a place to stay away from the bitcoiners when we uh yeah so they can get toxic definitely we were there for the last one and it was it was something else yeah i heard the side events were pretty hot yeah yeah yeah there was a boat and uh a slingshot one night it was a good time it was fun uh there's a couple coming up there's one at the end of this month there's one in january miami's just a pop in place when it when it comes to crypto yeah yeah i tried to like go to a bunch because it's really good for bd but also like i think we've been doing conferences for over a month and i'm pretty tapped out i don't know about you no i can keep going yeah i think also it's like the the phantom

one also gave me a lot of energy in terms of uh go keep going to uh these conferences and i mean yeah the the bitcoin ones bitcoin people have a lot of money and they're sitting on a lot of you know sitting on a lot of bitcoin and i think they can do a lot with what they're sitting on a lot of them also they you know they struck struck it rich kind of early on and don't really know what to do with it and so um these these new defy you know things that they're introduced to you know they uh a lot of them will will jump in yeah yeah i think there's a big upgrade coming up for bitcoin taproot where they can enable smart contracts on bitcoin that's like four days away or something

interesting i haven't really been looking at that no i mean i there's been no coverage about it absolutely not like it hasn't been talked about at all but it's like kind of huge and it's bitcoin it's like we're so enthralled in like what's going on in d5 that like nobody cares anymore it's like oh yeah cool cool upgrade yeah yeah exactly this is the first time i heard about it i hope it's compatible with everything else yeah yeah that's part of the multi-chain world right like bitcoin is a chain you know just like all these other chains yeah but we want to go on bitcoin when dude we go everywhere um as long as they don't charge us an arm on their leg on

fees so if i'm a defy user on phantom right now you know i got some ftm you know i got some uh some things in reaper some auto compounders you know maybe i'm doing something on um on scream or wherever else what can i do on cheat out you know what's the value add for me where what's the rewards what's the idea behind it you know what can i do uh with my assets on phantom now um if i would like to use cheeto yeah i mean you know you can always like go to a beefy and go to their screen strategies to get like money or yield from depositing it into landing platforms you can go to a urine and you can deposit ftm to get

some deposits for that but that's i feel like that's really step one if you're a defy user if you want to like take it a little bit ahead um you don't want to just keep those like positions those interest bearing positions kind of just sitting there um you could lever them you know you could extract that value and hedge yourself you could extract the value to buy another token maybe you're very excited about ens so you want to you know get some stable coins bridge them and buy some ens um you can do all that at cheetah right because we accept all these different kinds of interest bearing tokens like their receipts tokens as collateral and so then you can mint stable coins uh at zero percent interest we don't charge your interest um against the value of those tokens

uh what i see a lot of people doing is they take interest varying stable coins specifically interest bearing dye so you get like moose cream dye you get uh you're involved die and then you lever that guy a lot and you could get pretty high returns on single sided staking for stable coins yeah yeah so i think yeah sorry uh the big the biggest thing that we're trying to do uh actually that was let you use the assets that you have that are just sitting idle and kind of put them to work to you know make you more yield even if they're already being put to work yeah you can put them to work many times okay so kind of like kind of like um on ethereum liquidy has zero percent

interest um you know as far as borrowing goes but there's a small set um fee to borrow is that similar like is there a small fee which you got how does that work yeah yeah it's a it's a small repayment fee so it's a 0.5 repayment fee so that means only when you are repaying your debt do you pay that uh that fee so you can hold on to your debt for as long as you want it's not gonna cost you a penny um whenever you do decide to repay the fee then you pay that 0.5 and it's taken out of collateral so it's you know you don't have to go and find more more maya to repay just taken out of the collateral uh when you repay the debt nice

and then us i would assume some of that um is is then rewarded to my stakers or my holders or i'm so cool yeah chi chi stakers yeah if you hold our governance token you get the different like revenues exactly we have two tokens my is the stable coin and then she is the governance governance token which uh you stake the chi you can vote or you have like extra voting power as well as you get some of those uh those fees paid back to you yeah did you guys see the whole ave um you know just just absolutely just craziness after cream got hacked there was then people were saying the ex-sushi on abbe

was the same same potential exploit and um you know people freaking out uh what is what is at the top of mind for y'all when it comes to security for for kind of the borrow ass because it seems like the ability to kind of wind up is like the main security problem um with running a borrowing protocol so kind of what's your what's your top of mind with regards to security how does that um you know play into what you guys build i mean that's number one right because like our only priority or at least our most like valid priority is maintaining the peg um right doesn't i mean the government's token is important but not really compared to the peg um and we looked at that specifically right the cream hack and how they use

the share token and really it's a matter of we we won't add a token as collateral if it's a shared token and if you can borrow that in a land a peer-to-peer lending market because then you can have that happen the uh well we're talking about here right but if without that kind of like vector what happened with cream doesn't happen with us um same as like maker down yeah uh one one thing as well i would like to talk about in terms of that that hack is that uh when all that scare was happening and people were pulling out of like a lot of money from ave i think justin's son pulled out like four billion dollars um out of ave it skyrocketed the interest rates for

any stables that were in ave so i mean some people if you had a loan out for like usdt or something along those lines you were paying 50 um on that on that loan uh i mean given it might have not been for for weeks but still for a good period of time the interest rates were hella high and see that's what you like that's what you can get when you have like variable interest rate um kind of borrowing yeah it's like why why does anybody charge people interest to borrow against themselves yeah right like well you're you're not literally borrowing these like my stable coins against other people in [ __ ] out it's just you and your money and it's evolved and it's completely segregated from all

other vaults um so yeah why would we charge your interest for that that's kind of crazy yeah that concept you know it's a little bit different than a dex where it's kind of peer to contract and everybody can interact but i was reading through this infrastructure bill that the that good old joe biden passed and you're supposed to report who you're trading with for any amount over ten thousand and it's like how are you supposed to you know report the smart contract for you know the my ice pair that you you know and get and get their uh you're supposed to get their social security number or something i think i think it shows what's like people making the laws have no idea what they're doing

yeah it's definitely encompassed yeah i i i have a lot of confidence in like big projects like makerdale who are engaging with like regulators who are doing a lot of like legal work and i think they will benefit like the rest of the ecosystem with the kind of research that they're doing because like you you wouldn't see like a small like decks on i don't know moon river you know pouring a bunch of like legal fees to figure out what's what the government wants but at the end of the day i mean like it's about decentralization and that's why we care so much about decentralizing you know i cheat out everything you do is between you and yourself you know you launch a vault that's an nft and like we can't touch it it's not ours um

and when you meant stuff when you repay they tell you so i i think that's very helpful because then you don't have to get the social security of like your vault because you know it's not a person right yeah it's interesting it's interesting to see that that development happened um i think we're years away from it um but yeah i think decentralized stable coins is super important let's let's talk about that because i feel like our audience understands stable coins but may not be fully aware of the importance of like decentralized stable coins and what that what what that really means so um yeah maybe you could highlight kind of some of the ones out there that you guys are fond of and uh also touch on my and kind of how that is you know used to maintain peg and how the other token in

the system qi is also a part of that and you know what that what that looks like across the board for d5 yeah i think there's like completely different things here like there's like usdc like the uct the centralized stable coins and then there's what i like to call the money market stable coin so the collateral backed stable coins and the stable coins in those platforms doesn't really matter like that's not really what's important here like people are not necessarily buying them to hold them what matters is like the actual lending aspect within that the idea that while you're providing liquidity on uni swap while you're investing by like lending out your assets on like avi you know while you're doing that you're able to still be liquid and use that liquidity

for something else or if you're bullish on any number of tokens you know you don't have to sell them if you need to go pay rent right you have so many like he was mentioning these bitcoin people they're not going to sell bitcoin right and what if they need to pay rent what if they need to you know i don't know whatever expenses dental expenses we had a user to talk about that you know lock up your your btc and bore against it and that idea has been done a lot you know you got liquidy you have abracadabra you have makered out which is probably the most successful one so far um you have many different ones we do that right um and where we're kind of focusing on is kind of this idea of letting everybody like be in control of their assets and if you're charging

interest you know i really don't like that i i and but then at the others and like you have liquidity they don't charge interest but they only take ethereum you know that doesn't reflect the the current um ecosystem that we have in which people have a bunch of different assets a bunch of different positions right um i mean that's why we're partnering with many dexes like spooky swap um like quick swap right to take their lps as collateral so then no longer do you have to choose between you know you know buying something off like in the real world or maybe like a token versus yield farming or putting liquidity for a project that you really like yeah exactly like being able to use those lps as collateral it means that

you can still provide liquidity for like your favorite projects and everything like that but still be liquid um and use those use that value cool yeah that's interesting concept i mean i think going back to the anti-interest rates i think i think having um fixed rate loans is actually going to be an important concept um so curious to think if you guys are strictly opposed to variable variable rate loans or both fixed rate and variable rate or if you see some sort of discrepancy there in in value for d5 i think they both have a place so we do repayment fee and that it's very important to differentiate repayment for

borrowing because if you're doing on repayment you don't lose on the upside of having had that money at the beginning to yield farm or do whatever you do with that kind of liquidity up front um and if you do fixed rate it's way better long term for example like us without including any kind of deposit rewards we are a better option for borrowing stable coins after a day of holding the loan so if you're running alone for more than a day it's already better but of course we do have borrowing rewards and we do have interest bearing tokens so it never makes sense to borrow at a variable interest rate but for some reason if you wanted to do that we have partnered with people like market xyz which is kind of like a rari fork on polygon uh and now you can mint stable coins

directly on their market um against like your collateral and we're the counterparty and then we charge you a very very low interest rate it's kind of like d3m that um i was doing with makering which maker is minting into ave and so your counterparty they already have it i mean sorry it's makered out um you're able to borrow at a variable rate but that very well rate at least is very low so do you see a future where my finance cheat out is going to in implement under collateralized loans and if so how would you how how would you in a non-technical way how how would you manage to think about you know creating something like that

i think when you talk about undercollateralized loans and feel free to jump in like it's about centralization because if you have to have uncollaterized loans that means trust right that means like manual work and i i i don't know maybe it's in the future but i i don't see it happening like near term at least for our base protocol cool yeah it's tough you you need some sort of credit score or right um like on shane rep like reputation metric but right it would be tough to tie that to like an identity or something yeah who gets them right exactly the big projects but like the big projects get hacked as well yeah so like and then we go back to what's wrong right now with

the financial like trad fire right which is like um you know favoring those that have a track record against those that don't and that's very discriminatory because just because you have a track record it doesn't mean you're any more safe um right you know that we i mean queen doesn't have a track record but there are there are people with like try quaker that still get hacked shots fired definitely yeah it's tough that i mean there's already enough debt in d5 um as is in an over collateralized fashion i think undercollateralized would would cause an absolute world um you know i mean but it's going to be interesting to see kind of the evolution as as users you know grow and want more um

you know capital efficiency for their money and and want to be doing things absolutely i mean like more and more people are gonna continue to to test you know test that out i mean we haven't seen it really happen successfully so far um i mean there's some examples i guess but like i mean people can do it on top of us i think what we're providing is a very base level like money market that any financial system needs um like i said with the variable interest rates that you can get on market xyz or directly on our vaults somebody could essentially borrow from us very cheaply and lend it out to somebody else um at a very high interest rate with the understanding that it doesn't have

collateral and so that encounter like that person in the middle is the one bearing the risk it's kind of like what you see now with like banks on the central bank think of like make cheetah as like the central bank minting the stable coin of course this is the person minting it and then you have that counterparty in the middle that's then borrowing it to somebody which would then be the bank and then it can decide to do it with or without collateral yeah 100 so in in this instance if we're thinking about d5 in a money lego sense you're kind of able to see these layers appear you know like pretty quickly you know you've got kind of the base layers and then you build all the way up until um you even have like projects that are just like

that are services like um you know if there's a liquidation protection uh project that can go on to cheat out that you know ensures that that um you know if you're about to get liquidated they actually pay off some of your debt for you automatically right um i know of defy savior on aetherium will do that um and then you you go all the way the other way all the way down to like a stable coin as like the base layer for um you know 4d5 you've got all these all these blocks and you know i'm curious if it's something that you guys are like are yearning for in d5 something that you'd want to see no pun intended like that isn't in existence yet like if you had to build something that wasn't cheetah that doesn't exist in default yet like what's the what's the billion

dollar idea or like what what do you wish you know was potentially in d5 that you know may or may not be there now that's like that's a great great question that's one thing yeah how much help do we want to give him sure no i mean like i think the idea of like further integrating with different people i mean i my background is in banking so there's a lot of instruments that we don't have like d5 today is so simple like the instruments are not at all like what you see in shotify and eventually we'll get to that but i think what's more important is to get more people in defy i think that's really what's important and making it easier for

people to use defy uh in whatever ways that might mean there's a lot of cool projects out there already um so what i would love to see is more people building on top of existing protocols making it easier for newcomers to come um because what's the pro what's the point of having this awesome like world when it's just like medium to high income people using it right and not the people that are traditionally uh left out of like the higher like levels of like the financial industry cool yeah um doesn't exactly give our our listeners hella alpha as to what to build next but

you know we definitely agree in terms of i mean yeah i mean that's kind of like the thesis right bank the unbanked and i think that's kind of what what layer 2 is doing and then also what protocols are doing where um something so simple as like an nft vault for onboarding users to where somebody all they have to do is put their their bank or their credit card um info in they click a button and there and there's automatically a wallet created for them right and then they can automatically go ahead and invest in strategies without even having to know without even having to keep their private keys without having to do anything they have their money in a strategy just after they upload via a credit card boom all i love on the back

end yeah i mean there's uh i don't know if you know but like in germany or like in a lot of europe there's people that have their money stuck on finance and like they can't off-ramp it because finance was like blocked or whatever and like all they can do is go more into the rabbit hole but they have no idea what they're doing right yeah um so i mean i've i've seen some projects that are helping out like people like i mean there's many like yield aggregators i know google coin is one that we're pretty close to uh i was thinking about them um are you guys in the in the in the sale for that it's coming up um um we we are advising them um okay i don't know

they're a pretty legit project right i i couldn't say more good things about them i show them to everybody because i i really think that's like yeah that's like smelling at him because i don't know yeah yeah because um we guys are great okay cool yeah i mean we also met them um super cool guys we're gonna get in i think and we're gonna be part and you know help them with their kind of marketing and content and stuff as well um yeah i mean they seem super like yeah that idea is just genius like nobody cares about d5 but like if you can care about getting 25 on your usd just by doing basically nothing it's like dude give me that you know yeah exactly right and i think where we play in is helping them on the default side

you know creating like long-term safe different strategies strategies you know might not be the sexiest dj stuff but it will be stuff that like will last for the person it's still pretty sexy it's better than your deutsche bank bank account so yeah yeah exactly yeah and if you come back to one of your your earlier questions like things that we would want to see i mean um we're working we're big on like nfts and all that kind of stuff i mean it would be great to see a way that we could uh you know use nfts as collateral as well that way you can uh you can actually um you know you know just actually use your nfts for more than just a uh a profile picture

um in the text yeah i mean like the ideas from the nft bear market nft utility is that is that what's going to bring us out of this i don't know i feel like that would make it crazier because it's kind of like um like just to give you a random like market like the toilet market imagine if like you were to start like trading stocks on the tulips like i mean you never have the tulip you're just trading like some like poker chip um i don't know i think it's just gonna inflate the prices even more but maybe it's what's needed who knows yeah i mean there's some nfc collections that have a financialization aspect already like those cyber kongs produce the bananas each day

so yeah like that's cool but yeah it's kind of right i love other avagochi also a pretty cool example of uh you know nfts that you can throw money in and um continue to grow over time uh yeah avogadro's fantastic if you haven't tried out avagochi check it out um you can even get some lots of wearables yeah yeah they did some they did some got your wearables um for for our platform which is pretty nice yeah but like yeah on like nfts like if it was i don't know about crypto punks but like if you're talking about like tokenized like real world assets and then you're fractionalizing that and making liquid markets for those i think that's pretty cool yeah i think that that would make a lot of sense but if we're talking about like these assets that like

are already on the fringe of like valuations you know what i mean um it might just create like a bit of like uh inflation yeah being able to collateralize your illiquid art is not exactly um because what the the question of its worth is already very very subjective um and then you add in the collateralization aspect where you have to maintain some sort of ratio to not get wrecked yeah that would be that would be something else um yeah so is there um aside from the actual art itself how do you guys see nfts and d5 interacting i think from up till now what we've seen is like a lot of we're like on top of yield farming if you do this this and this you know you get this cool nft as like a reward so we've seen them as like a reward mechanism now but i

know it goes deeper than that like there's got to be uses for non like non-fungibility within the broader d5 scope that's not just a reward or um you know collateralizing like like in the real world obviously we have you know for example real estate that's non-fungible but then we pay for it using you know our fungible dollars or our our cash or our credit or whatever it is so you know i guess you know going on that example um in d5 more more more particularly i'm just curious what you guys think are some applications for you know using non-fungible tokens within the d5 ecosystem there's so many yeah yeah i mean i think i've been had touched upon it before but our vaults are actually uh nfts which you can which you can trade uh trade

those nfts uh which actually comes comes in handy um more often than you would uh you would think uh i wanted to try and move some of my like funds and everything like that onto a different wallet but i didn't want to pay back my loan um because then i'd be inferring fees to like move my money over to a different wallet and then just take the loan back again but what i was able to do i was able to go ahead and just you know transfer that nft over to a different wallet rather than paying back all my debt and then moving and all that kind of stuff so that that i think is um one of the things that's pretty cool i think you know another another aspect that a lot of people are doing with with

nfts are you know if you own an nft it gives you access to real world you know like real world [ __ ] um for example like uh you have an nft and you you know you get access to parties or you get you know cool exclusive uh you know access to you know different uh different unique things uh that i mean yeah i like that a lot of societies doing that on polygon like you if you buy like they're super expensive like uh nfts you can get into special kind of like events um yeah there's like a bunch of those also like even in a dao like think about it like if you want to sign roles you

can give them non-transferable like nfts and so and maybe that role somehow that nft gives you permissions to do different things um with like the funds of the protocol yeah um maybe if you're doing kyc yeah i know i i don't like the kyc id at all but like if eventually you need to get to that um you can get a kyc nft you've been kyc so you now are whitelisted to interact with such such uh protocol yeah i i think also when you just when you touch upon the dao like dao aspect you know it's you know right now we see a lot of times and dowels it's just uh the voting powers with the people who have the most you know most money and most tokens if you

are able to give certain community members that maybe don't have all the money in the world but they're very active in the community these nfts and that can represent you know higher voting power or something along those lines um yeah that could be that could be pretty awesome yeah so are you guys pretty active in um a few days or just or mostly cheetah like what's your what's been y'all's experience with um with daos we're pretty we're pretty active with uh with chidao um it's like the first thing i see and the last thing i see every day so um it's hard to find time for other doubts i mean there are other doubts that i really want to get into of course like make it out i spend a lot

of time on their forums and sushi um olympus dal yeah but we're we're in other words in other discords and all that kind of stuff but the level that we are active in chidaw is you know it's quite a bit more than anything else um yeah yeah i mean it it's really our our discord for example is very active a lot of people talking about really great [ __ ] and so um you know we have to make a massive forum it's a massive completely different topics like different interests and like the debates sometimes very educative sometimes very uh fiery but uh you gotta scroll back and read and read

hours of really great content but yeah that's you know we're we're always active there and then we also do have community members that really help uh help out in that regard making sure that all the little questions that uh that go on within the discord we don't have to actually handle yeah i mean we have the best community manager in the world so nacho nacho shout out yeah yeah he came on board to a team so been great help but yeah i mean also all the like champions yeah that really do a lot of the network so that we can do some other like expansionary tasks yeah recently i was reading some tweet i think it was a thread that was explaining why community managers are

like the most important part of any project and that they should be paid like to the utmost regard and that they're just extremely valuable which i mean it seems to be true in this in this circumstance as as well um it's kind of like uh that and the whip they say in the dao some somebody just to fire it up and get people moving um do you guys have one of those we got the cheap wrangler uh i can think of one specific that's very active on both discord and everywhere i mean with people that have their own niche like for example we have pingo who's one of our community members who's really in everything that has to do with education right and there's a bunch of different people that write articles about like defy relate and how it relates to uh

chidaw and they do it in like different languages we have like i think nine languages and it's all handled by pingu who's one of our community members he kind of like wrangles that i mean we have like wrethers who does like other things and we have like analytics people that you know do look at the analytics um and it's all like community people doing stuff um some on the payroll some bounties based yeah but it all grew organically it was you know just a bunch of a bunch of people really loved the uh protocol coming in and helping out wherever they could and then um you know we just were overwhelmed with the amount of support and and the amount of work that they were putting in and um yeah we uh we had to have to go ahead

and bring them bring them on board and kind of put them on on payroll because then we can just do way more yeah i mean like if you're not like answering how to change your rpc endpoint for like the 100th time uh you can start reading up on like what other projects are doing and how you can collaborate with them so yeah 100 that's awesome i'm glad to see and guys if you're if you're listening definitely join the cheetah discord um definitely seems like there's some alpha in there um and just good you know good peeps so um excited to hear that that's going well for you guys because that's one of the biggest things for a lot of people when they come to evaluate a project um you know i'm gonna ask you guys what your project evaluation

kind of framework looks like as well but certainly you know you check the twitter you check the discord you look at the tokenomics with the team um you know [Music] like the discord vibe is almost one of the most important things um so it's interesting to see that play out um but yeah i'm curious what what do you guys look at so you find a new project that you know you're interested to either partner with or to invest in you know what would be like your framework for evaluation you know let's say in five minutes like what what would you do yeah i mean if work we receive a lot of offers to do like co-marketing so we have to do a lot of like these calls of like do we like point do we point our users to these people and like of course

like this like twitter and necessarily how many followers but like what are they tweeting um like if they're just tweeting about their prize then i'm not getting like anywhere close to them um like looking at discord are people like you know engaging in conversation um can you get in contact with the team that's a huge one like if you're doing like some collaboration with somebody and like and you know you're working through people and like you can't talk to a team there's like no way you know you're doing anything with them like i i think it's very important to be available uh no matter how many messages you get like you know we we talk a lot with the maker people the other people i'm sure they're pretty busy but they answer their messages so like um i think it's important to have that

yeah i mean another thing is like to see if some of the members of the team are doxxed um that's not a necessity but it does definitely help um it it helps there i think what are there there's a few other things that uh i mean they have an audit yeah i mean audits don't really mean anything um if other protocols like other big protocols are you know you using them and all that kind of stuff are partnered with and that's that's a pretty good uh sign looking and seeing who's you know who's on their multi-sig the dogs yeah yeah their documents um yeah cool yeah yeah for investing purposes a lot of people will refer more to you know coin gecko and kind of charting and stuff like this

but when you get to that level um where you're looking at the real fundamentals in terms of team community and kind of just overall vibes that's how you really uh grow a deep conviction in something you know you have to just look at charts and look at economics and be like yeah this is going to be amazing when you really deep dive and get be a part of the community and i think this is like alpha for those who are still listening is like like less charts and more like get in deep with people and learn and connect and and vibe and you you tend to just develop way deeper conviction to hold something way longer and also once in a while you just get something tossed your way that's an absolute gem just because you're in some discord and you found out about it um right so yeah definitely on

the outside yeah sorry i was going to say like you got to assume that coin gekko's right right like there's so much bad data in crypto um like people telling you one thing and then you like check on the explorer and it's something else so yeah i think fundamental analysis are very hard to do and if you're gonna do them you got to do them yourself um but i guess that's just like another like level of yeah i do want to plus one you on that you know getting getting to know the people behind the project and everything along those lines because you can have the best economics in the world but that doesn't necessarily mean you're not going to rug um so getting to know the people behind it and

getting to know the community if the community feels organic or if it was just bought is uh is a good telltale sign i mean but even then you could be wrong yeah even then you could be like maybe you don't think of something in the car i mean i'm not a developer so like there's only so much due diligence i can do like i think about you know economic hacks because that's where most of them that happen right usually you don't get your developer keys taken it's usually like something like in the model right exactly yeah but that's kind of the risk you know there's always a risk in every you know co-partnership and every investment in every you know in every arrangement so it's just being able to identify and then you know understand what the potential upside is and going with that and uh speaking of cheat out

potential upside what do we got coming up um you know on the roadmap what is the uh what are the alpha leaks that you can link and what can our our community get excited about as we kind of wrap this up here well you got the chief alpha leaker right here so uh what is not coming up gila yeah i mean um i don't know if we have we talked to to the community about the spooky spooky lps well he said defy slate people i think they could keep it to themselves right yeah yeah yeah you're not going to share it um so we've got a partnership with with spooky in the works to where we'll be adding spooky lps as collateral through through beefy which is uh which is really great and also chatting with

them about um you know margin lending through through spooky's interface using chidao vaults um which we think is really great um i mean we got pretty cheap leverage um so why not use it right yeah exactly we're also getting into every chain we're not everything right like there's due diligence but like you know you got moon river you got harmony we already got a grant from them um near near we were we were already on avalanches we're very near on that one if they want to have chain-link coracles that would be great yeah yeah that's what everyone's saying has been slowing them down

that's what slows everyone down um is the chilling court coming moon river and harmony two they're waiting for their champion yeah we're we're ready we're ready for those just waiting for those chain like oracles and yeah yeah yeah just like a long list yeah those those types of chain need a lending and borrowing um protocol that's reliable for them to really grow like that's kind of like i mean um harmony has one now tranquil um but uh outside of that and i'm not sure about yeah i don't know what tranquil uses either but now that i i'm i've i've came to realize that they don't have chin link oracles i'm kind of sketchy they use a sushi sushi top we're chatting with them as well just oh boy oh boy i don't like [ __ ] i like that they're there that's kind of

yeah well i don't know i mean it's got like 80 million in liquidity or something oh is it 80 now wow yeah i mean 60 and 16 deposits and 20 in buyers or something so something like that that's pretty nice that's yeah yeah yeah i mean we want to be on harmony as i like to say yesterday we already bridged there you can already bridge your token there through any swap um it's just waiting on that chilling coracle but you know once that happens you know we're adding everything that's safe you know we we like to give your whole portfolio the avenue to be leveraged but of course we're not going to add a like a collateral that's not good just because he might be famous or he might have hype yeah because at the end of the

day you want to create a long term thing that's going to survive the better market another thing that i'm pretty happy about is that uh joe uh joe just got a chain like oracle in avalanche right and beefy and beefy yes i am i can't wait i mean snapshot is down right now but when they're not down i really want to vote on those yeah yeah we'll be throwing those those votes out i i think um that would be that would be really huge still talking to um still talking to chain link about trying to see if we can get like boo and stuff along those lines uh tomb chain like oracle's that way we can add those but um oh also um there's some h-bar uh maybe some h-bar actually you know we didn't even notice that

yeah so h-bar is now technically available in polygon and it's white listed on quick swap and it has a chain link oracle um i think you can connect the dots here can you i don't know but what's the liquidity pair that is coming out tomorrow's gonna be h hbar my what yeah and they're gonna be incentivizing it so that's gonna be pretty nice i think there's gonna be a lot of liquidity it's like bitcoin like you can't really do anything on those chains i think there's a lot of value that wants to go out and uh enterprise blockchain layer one right yeah interesting yeah it's really cool to see like the development of like cheat out as a

protocol layer value aggregator across you know six chains versus um the the protocols like joe that are just on avalanche versus the value or the settlement layers themselves phantom avalanche um polygon it's also it's going to be interesting to see like which types of of protocols accrue the highest marked cap the most value clearly we're seeing the fat protocol thesis play out which is all the layer ones are accruing the most value but you got to think that that the next step behind them is the protocols that are on all the chains that are accruing the most value from all the users um you know but it's interesting to see that like i think like joe and pangolin of avalanche will never leave and go to a

different chain i mean they might um but for from what it seems it seems like spooky swap is going to be on um you know on on phantom native right and so it's going to interesting to see how protocols almost compete with each other in a sense of like wanting to get across other chains to get more users but also wanting to keep their kind of native like loyal liquidity because you know joe and spooky swap have some of the most loyal fan bases and users because well they're only on those chains um so it's it's it's gonna be interesting to see how the value creation but i think obviously we're seeing fat protocol thesis that was written years ago play out um which has been one of the best investments in terms of layer ones just absolutely erupting in market cap um so yeah curious to see how

harmony yeah i'm very excited about them but yeah i agree with you like i think one day it's gonna be like all the assets that you have that are making money you can always like um do more with them you know it doesn't have to make it more unsafe i think it's a matter of liquidity being able to be liquid and you know my goal is to have you know you mentioned pangolin you mentioned trader joe i want all their tv all through cheetah like why would you just drop your money in an lp and just leave it there when you can keep doing things with it right and i think it helps also so much that we are partnering with like for example beefy which is everywhere absolutely everywhere you know they're absolutely everywhere and so it makes it

really easy for us to when we go into a new chain we you know we've already got a strong partner strong um aggregator there that we can work with because they ought to compound for us because the idea is like you're not gonna just deliver your lifeless lps right like you want to like get your yield yes the whole point exactly so having partners like that that are cross chain is really um really fantastic and i know that like uh beefy they've got a ton of different uh cool things that they're gonna be doing on a cross chain for a cross-chain world so um yeah sweet excited about that well guys um join the cheat out discord get in there get active um learn around try it out um i know i'm going to be using on phantom

for sure um and excited to see where this goes thank you guys so much for coming on and dropping some alpha for the community and excited to uh to get this out there i don't know what happened to rob by the way he just disappeared but yeah i really appreciate it uh you can find us on on discord or on telegram on discord i'm just kila yeah j-u-s i have a long name so i'm not even going to try just like say benjamin and somebody remember me yeah yeah thanks guys thank you man