DeFi By Design EP#53: Beyond the DeFi Horizon

Transcript

[Music] d5 slate team [Music] it's your boy andy and welcome back to the defy slate youtube channel smash the like button on this video that really helps us out and sit back and enjoy the content thank you very much what's going on y'all welcome back to the d5 by design podcast here today for episode 53 um interesting times going on right now in the crypto world there's a whole lot of stuff going on and who would have thought that countries adopting bitcoin as legal tender would be some of the most least interesting things going on i mean who really even cares about that at this point but no i'm just messing around there's a lot of

things going on right now it almost feels like the opportunity is too overwhelming um like it's kind of like you could be doing nfts you could be doing this you there's just so many things going on um so kind of what we'd like to do today we're here with yet jenny from zarion a og portfolio tracker in the uh in the d5 space and basically we're going to walk through kind of some of these opportunities um how you can capitalize on them what's going on in d5 what's going on in crypto what's bringing us mainstream um and just you know also how to get involved with with zerion and get active um in making sure that you are taking care of your portfolio and doing everything you can best so i'm gonna pass it over to rob we're actually both down here in south

florida now feels good i got my ave shirt on we're repping it let's go episode 53 is here how you doing i'm doing great andy happy to be here happy to be back in florida i'm stoked to be talking to you jenny for the second time i think you are one of the you are the first repeat guest of the podcast so um super stoked to see what is going oh yeah uh what is going on at zirion again after um a little over a year um since since the last time we talked to you d5 has certainly changed uh dramatically and uh yeah super super stoked to be talking about all the updates going on with d5 as a whole and xerion so i'll pass it over to you and uh yeah how you doing this morning

man thank you guys i'm really excited to be here again uh and you know happy to talk about d5 and nfcs and everything that's going on um and welcome to all the listeners awesome there's been a lot going on at zirion um do you want to kind of give us a high level you know what what you're super excited about what is going on at zirion um you know for for anyone that's listening to start getting their their toes wedding yeah uh just for sure for sure so this this year was actually an amazing year for us uh actually even better than i would say that in 2020 so the pretty much the first wave of growth

we had in 2020 and you know now i guess like the biggest one happened in may of this year uh so effectively a lot of you know a lot of the growth is coming from the fact that people are getting more excited about d5 just in general so which actually i'm super stoked to see because uh you know for uh for like a non-custodial type of product it's it's unusual to see that there's kind of like many people are joining the space so that's exciting we've seen a ton of you know new protocols and projects and seikins and firearms etc are being launched and this is definitely becoming overwhelming so when you know when we were starting it was probably three protocols out there as a maker compound and union swap and the you know in in the last what two two

years it's been growing like crazy so now i can really keep track of everything that is going on like i actually kind of stopped doing some djing stuff because it's just taking too much time and i'm really distracting from work um and also on top of that we had this nfp boom this year which brought you know another layer of complexity to the whole thing so it's just uh yeah a bit overwhelmed overwhelming for sure um yes one one thing just to kind of like for the ones who are not too familiar with deer and walk everyone through what we do so uh we're we started as a portfolio tracker so it's an automatic one in contrast to say something like block folio allowing you to see you just need to plug in your

public address and we'll fetch all the data from the blockchain including obviously all the erc20s so we support over i think it's getting closer to like a hundred thousand tokens now in ethereum uh we will fetch all the protocols where you have staked stuff or like ave or different you know compound et cetera et cetera so the protocols where you have um things will just fetch all this data and will also give you like a price on the more sophisticated tokens like different strategies of vaults etc such that you have a pretty good overview of your portfolio we'll also have um you know the history page which a lot of people love so it's a good overview of the transactions that you've done anywhere on you know within the defy space uh recently i

think like the big one was the our dive into the hand of g space so we we now show all the nfgs you have um on your wallet and uh yeah we're working on like introducing more features to that part of zirin and lastly uh it's obviously worth mentioning the mobile app it's i guess like by far the best product in terms of retention uh for us uh it's uh people open it on average i think nine times a day um and uh yeah it allows it has like a ton of uh cool features so all of the stuff that i mentioned and obviously the trading part so you're able to trade right from your you know mobile phone uh using the best

liquidity from you know uni swap sushi all essentially we agreed everything and don't charge fees on top that's kind of a very brief uh intro to the xirian as a product yeah yeah of course all the d gens are checking their portfolios nine times a day it couldn't be me no never um yeah that's awesome i appreciate the overview i think um i think if you're new here guys um you should definitely be checking out xerion using it if you're old here um and this isn't your first rodeo i'm sure you already used it or have used it so um appreciate the uh the insights and kind of who would have thought the last time we spoke was kind of the beginning of of the d5 summer that that nfts would not only onboard

way more people into ethereum but that they would be just so much more powerful as a tool for marketing as a as a way to get the community together inside of the ethereum users already like it's it's it's nuts you know kind of what what are your thoughts on the recent evolutions of um of of the pies of ethereum kind of dow's nft's define and kind of how how they're evolving you know with regards to the mainstream use cases and kind of bringing more people in which is where we kind of see zerion fit in it's kind of bringing people and giving them an easy place to track their portfolio but um yeah kind of how do you see that evolution happening with with those three components

right right i think that's that's super relevant to be honest i have missed you know the first wave of nfcs myself we've been obviously like earliest one of the earliest adopters with you know cryptokitties back then who had the support for nft is like or in the bullet called talking area a very long time ago like three years ago or so but that was too early i think so this time yeah it kind of came out of nowhere so open c had uh close to zero type volume uh just like months before and at some point just like hit millions and millions of volume um yeah so definitely exciting to watch i think what i like about this is that um it kind of has a different use case

which is separate from the the financial one which is d5 mainly is about i mean obviously nfts are a lot of them are very speculative uh but at the same time you know people who are using creating them they're not really correlated with like the the crypto token cycles so with the tokens everything's just like you know you either in a bull market or everything you just like no one wants to use it no one wants to see or trade anything and it just goes to zero type of thing with with nfts i think now we have you know on one hand we have d5 we have some macro events that affect different altcoins and we now have you know artists that spend their time working new cool stuff and they don't really care about you know where the market is uh into the hype cycle uh so

for them it's just like get you know try to sell this anyway so i think that's good um speaking of daos you know it's it's a very promising i think um idea and you know it's obviously something where we'll end up i think all of the companies would be in a way formed as a dial just because it's a better tool for organizing and managing uh folks together so that's uh yeah i'm super excited about that i think like internally we've been calling this kind of like a combination of three a metaverse and i think that's a common narrative right now within the crypto space so um yeah we see them all as part of this you know metaverse because this is just something that is not necessarily connected to like the state so the state is not the

one that you're trusting uh for it for these things to happen so effectively yeah these are kind of ethereum becomes this uh um you know jurisdiction where you can create the company where you can have the financial services where you can have property rights as nfts yeah yeah yeah all the i think that's really cool uh so yeah excited about that and yeah i think nfcs are just already like super early right now it's uh it's very simple you know buy this g bag and uh sell it you know three times higher that's kind of it but you know we're just getting scratching the surface i think in the future nfts it's just like with d5 right like icos were you know what nfts are right now uh in terms of the use cases

and the complexity the uh of it so in the future i believe you know nfts would be as sophisticated as d5 is right now yeah the way that kind of what we call the metaverse which you know contains d5 and nfts um is similar almost it is creating interoperability between kind of these different collections different universes of characters and i kind of think of it like you got dc comics and i was never big into like comic books or superheroes or whatnot but you got dc comics and then marvel and you know if those worlds were to collide you can kind of have like nfts trade between these different universes between the pudgy penguins and the

crypto punks you can start to share kind of collectibles and uh transact uh you know assets across the metaverse uh which is super cool and it starts to unveil kind of the different use cases of nfts of ethereum overall um my question is more kind of what xerion is seeing on on the user activity side uh in terms of these different use cases you know is it more so nfts is it more so defy and exchange and which of those trends do you see kind of playing out in the long term maybe which ones do you see kind of fizzling out um and giving way to more right it's a it's a very hard question so i think speaking of the trends that

we see that's kind of more obvious but in a way they're fluctuating quite a bit so you know in may we had a lot of dog points being traded like like a ton of altcoins and uh yeah and then cat coins etc etc so people are just coming from all over and you know finding the assets that i've never heard about and like putting money in that probably a bunch of people running marketing campaigns around that but then you know this nft boom came that's like the second wave of the nft the first one was like in spring and then in the winter and then now like the second wave came in uh with this new like moving part so so we started kind of like paying more attention to that

and as a product we're getting too many requests to ignore it in terms of the integration recently i think like d5 is again kind of on on a bit of a rise uh maybe it connects with the chinese ban uh but yeah definitely a lot of excitement about tokens still um hard to say to be honest in terms of the use cases i think um what we've traditionally see seen the bull market is usually characterized by a lot of trading um and like trading obviously of tokens and then nfgs now uh we did see obviously we followed the market trends and see how you know the openc volumes dropped significantly recently like in september uh but

you know uh it's hard to tell what's gonna happen even next months um i don't know landing was not like a big use case for us uh for for quite some time uh boring is like really fluctuating so i think like people sometimes just want to um you know leverage a bit more and that's how they like end up on uh but boring more money so it's kind of connected with like the trading use case but yeah these are the main ones cool yeah and there's a lot of different possibilities now um in d5 we're kind of seeing like this generation two d5 so i think i think this is an interesting thing to touch on is the changes that we've seen

from our gen 1 d5 so our conversation you know where we had compound and ave and they'd kind of just look compounded just kind of launched their farming and unit swap it came out and you know now we've got like um abracadabra money trying to make decentralized stable coins and we've got you know like just all sorts of projects that are similar to like this generation two built on anonymous teams um you know and i'm i'm i'm kind of curious what your thoughts are as far as how d5 has changed for the better you know in in in the last year or so and you know how it maybe has changed for the worse as well right um i think it's uh it's a good it's a good question

um so if i'm understanding like actually we didn't divide this into d5 first generation and d5 second gen um but uh i kind of i think i know what you're referring to so with all the new projects i think um you know it's good and bad at the same time because uh the good thing about you know the space being so hyped up is that you have three teams joining um and like actually committing themselves to build something great and at the same time you get a ton of you know kind of like not not so committed teams joining the same space and uh within the anonymity kind of like uh trend of launching something in the anonymous fashion you can see both like you know you can see

really great people who just want to do like a purely fair launch and everything related to that and at the same time you get like scammers trying to do some random air drop and steal everyone's money through the allowance thing uh yeah so i guess uh it's great that it brings more people uh and we'll have many many new teams uh doing the right things and actually experimenting with a lot of things so anonymity actually gives this the you know you don't have to sacrifice your existing job as an experiment and see if that's working out you know what um yeah and uh i guess we you know time will tell in a bit we'll know

whether you know that everyone will stay within the space um my sense is not but we'll get a ton of great projects yeah most definitely i think the uh the anonymous concept is big for people in the united states um right now we're seeing quite a bit of crackdown all across the board um you know i wouldn't be surprised if if we see more and more which i mean that's kind of the whole point is like there's like a meme it's like uh well yeah they're gonna ban you know some front end but like they can't stop the smart contracts so um just keep on keep on pushing forward and i i kind of view dowsing yes exactly i kind of view dows in this light um as well like you know you can try to stop

these organizations from operating on chain decentralized way but like how are you really going to stop them if if if they have either a token or if they have um you know teams all over the place grow and grow and growing and of course in this bull run everybody wants to be part of the dows dows are great everyone's making money the incentives are there but you know the true test will kind of come once we see what what happens in the next you know a few years whether people or bear but you know i'm curious if you see a rise in dao's coming in 2022 but really more importantly like i'm curious what what your thoughts are on transitioning a traditional company like zerion like defy slate like a different protocol to a dow is that

possible is it is it reasonable um you know what what what do you see as the added benefit so first let's touch on is 2022 the year of the thousand and how to transition a company to a doubt yeah um to answer the first question i think we'll definitely see the dials grow um i don't know whether they're gonna hit like a some some kind of like nft moment uh with a lot of hype around them i think they're still um you know it's harder with the dows because obviously like these are kind of an investment wheel because most of the time sometimes these are just uh treasury management uh but they usually have a pretty high barrier of entry so they're not as easy i would say it's

like buying an nft um but we'll see maybe you know um we're definitely watching this trend i'm hopeful that we're not gonna miss this one um speaking of just the you know the evolution of companies and how dials can benefit like a normal company we spent quite a bit of time on this internally always like discussing and thinking about this um honestly i would prefer to do that and like as soon as possible that that's kind of like the the approach that we're taking so as soon as we have the tools to to move um most of our operations into a dial i think that makes perfect sense because why you know we don't really need the jurisdiction because we're inherently the centralized

team we have you know about six or seven countries where people work from um and we don't have you know we have an office space but you know it's not obligatory people to go there so um we in a way operate as a dao already we are looking to involve more people into building out parts of syria at least so i think that's uh that's the trend i think that makes sense it's kind of like running a company with all the benefits without the downsides of like specific jurisdictions and and the specific kind of like you know you need to deal with payroll and crypto payroll is free so uh you need to deal with uh i don't know um contractors or you need to deal with voting and you need to pay a ton of

money to lawyers and with the dow you can just codify it all i think the frameworks are just not all there but we'll have at some point a ton of great code that works well that you know handles kind of like i see it as a module system so if you want i don't know connect to some quorum or like board of directors you can connect it to like enable it in the inter sorry in the interface you want a payroll like international payroll you can do that you want to invoice eggs you can plug in a ton of things into the dow it's going to be super cheap to run and i think for all the new generations it's uh it doesn't really make sense to launch anything but through it now um yeah that that's just my take on this

yeah that starts to tap into i think the second part of andy's question um as far as how does a company transition from traditional maybe llc corporate style into endow and i think the modular approach that you describe you know being able to plug in different technologies into uh some existing workflow in the corporate world is how it's a gradual transition um because getting kind of companies to to switch all their operations over in a decentralized way is is almost like a shell shock but if we can start to plug in this functionality piece by piece then we'll start to probably see much more adoption just because it's easier to implement a dow style of operations

right uh yeah i think this process is not near complete and we've been discussing this with dean that if you want to launch a startup it's probably somewhere like how to make something that people are using already within the normal startup world and apply it to a doubt uh there's like a ton of opportunity there um i think for uh essentially for any company you know you need just a few basic pieces and all of them are kind of already being built out as it's it's quite fascinating to see how you know we have this closest multisig that we're using and then before we just had diagnosis and now there's like parts of money for example which is another great tool to for to pay you know people through through uh the multisig i think

in the future it's gonna be more and more and uh the great thing that is as like the nature of crypto everything is on the verified verifiable ledger so you can plug in a ton of different interfaces that do their own thing better than others and you can build your stack like all the operations and management can be done from like amazing tools that are accessible to everyone i think that's uh that's amazing uh in contrast to how it currently works with say like local you know i know if you've tried that but like signing up for some like unemployment insurance within a specific state and you can have to do it but like if you're having places in two states in the u.s you have to have like two different

things uh and access that from like the uh state created software that is uh lagging uh like hell so it's the steak jenny's had a few drinks and the libertarians coming out oh we're just getting started here boys i don't know which one it is i i think i read this article um and it was this it was this young woman's interpretation of a crypto new york party i think was on on the bankless blog or something in the last few days and it was literally hilarious because she had a line in there and it was like uh after a few drinks this guy warned me be careful because the libertarian's gonna start coming out and here we are talking state owned

softwares oh man so i think that's probably actually a better way to say it but right this is like this was my experience and uh you know it's it's different also for different countries so for example in the uk i had like a very pleasant experience working with the state created software versus like in the us it was it was a nightmare yeah yeah that's gotta be one of the biggest use cases for dows especially for uh protocols with tokens or who are looking um to basically do things that i mean we'll just put it out there that it could be legally either in the gray area or just not really stated for what it is now you put it to a dow you decentralize it and you do your best to kind of grow this in this

organization you know as you see it in a decentralized fashion um yeah i mean it's community owned and i think that's a huge thing um that nfts and dao's are really bringing that d5 kind of lacked d5 is a lot of whale owned um and i think over time it'll be more distributed but really nfts and endows seem to be really huge on this concept of community ownership um you know and that's something that is really important to me personally and to you know everybody i think in crypto yeah it andy i think that is an important point to highlight is the community-owned nature of the dows because it really separates from existing styles of ownership um if

you kind of separate existing businesses into for-profit and non-for-profit taos are almost right at the center of that uh kind of like a closed loop of aligned incentives for the community it's not not for profit but it is it isn't totally for profit trying to create a surplus it's really just identifying incentives and providing value to those who are involved um you have jenny did you know do you see kind of daos following a similar route and maybe continuing to pioneer like this this middle ground or ultimately do they fall into like one of these you know other categories right um my view on that is that i think dallas is just a better tool and that's similar

to d5 i think it's hard to say like where the taos are necessarily uh you know that or the others like necessarily controlled or like community owned fully i think we'll see dows on all you know on all spectrums uh so we'll have you know dow owned by a few folks uh just managing their own capital and not letting anyone in but even though like you can still i guess call the doll and we'll have a fully community owned ones i think it's just uh you know before it wasn't possible to imagine that uh something can be managed by say like millions of people uh with crypto and in dallas this is just becoming possible and uh we'll we'll i guess experiment with more and with new and innovative approaches

to governance and management uh of something like you know uh of a big scale and uh this wasn't seen before ever so all the companies created like you know facebook so and google's of the world they have around what 100k maybe even less stakeholders maybe a bit more i guess like through the funds and stuff uh but effectively this this is like small uh of what it actually can be and we haven't seen the you know the companies maybe owned by a billion people like how would that look like that's gonna be uh i think interesting and only possible with the dao so that's why i see them as like just an innovation of the way how we can manage stuff um

and not something very specific yeah cool cool yeah 100 i think i think the the point you made with regards to the the distributed ownership is huge while there are pitfalls to decentralizing in terms of decision making the you know the the pros kind of outweigh the cons especially if you have a really solid community um you know and i think i think this is something that people are excited about in in in the now if people want to join dallas people want to you know be here for uh for friends and frankly in this point in the market if you're an og you know you're probably done pretty well for yourself and you're kind of like all right well what do i need more than instead of asking what can what can crypto do for me it's like

you know what can i do for crypto what can i do to contribute to help and to help grow this ecosystem you know as i i want to see it and we all kind of have our own visions but you know we all kind of align with the same uh libertarian non-state-owned software no i'm kidding um but like so very much so this ethos you know and um you know it gets you excited so um yeah i'm i'm here for you personal jenny what are you most excited about um in the coming in the coming weeks months years is is there's a specific nft drop is there a dab that you want to join or is there something coming up on zerion that you're stoked about like what are you stoked about

right um to say at the first let's say i would say like my my focus is definitely on on what is happening within syrian so this is kind of like 95 percent of my attention uh i definitely don't want to show anything because i'm not too i guess familiar with nft drops i occasionally you know participate in them as i see you know some of my friends just ate into something i'm like oh i feel i'm feeling some foam and i'm just doing that but that's purely for fun um and like just to keep you know hand on the pulse of the market what's what's happening um about you know the future of this space i i'm excited about

just the evolution of like layer two's you know this this is a big power play happening right now it's unclear who is winning um and it's it's yet to be seen and it's i think it's this tension is visible across the board i think it's you know within the layer twos it's within the side chains it's within uh the nfc community you know we kind of have some leaders there but we have so many rivals everyone wants like to be in it uh same goes to uh you know the protocols and i guess like the tensions are high and uh it's yet to be seen who will survive the this and like in the next couple years um that's

i guess one i'm excited about the wallet space because we are entering the world space as well and uh it's yet to be seen like who can dethrone metamask um and if that's even possible my my sense is that it is um and we have a plan to do that but uh yeah that's that's gonna be interesting to watch um yeah these are the main things i guess i'm not too excited about very much like some something very very specific um i mean like a specific project that i want to show uh probably not too many yeah so so more like the the developing trends that are that are coming out yeah and

you mentioned kind of the the dethroning metamask which you know of course is the most popular ethereum wallet and web3 wallet right now um kind of could you kind of walk us through just just brief over overview of what that might look like and and how you plan on doing that and i guess my to to be a little bit more specific with that question is more on the mobile implementation um because that is something that a lot of d5 applications haven't mastered yet is some way to connect web 3 in a you know easy to use familiar user experience way um on mobile um yeah so could you kind of walk us through that and how you how you see the integration uh between some sort of web

three wallet on on mobile yeah um actually quite a quite a bit of development happening there right now so um first of all i guess for for anyone who have ever used metamask and they know the feeling uh and there's not much to say about that so it's the um feels like uh you know prior to iphone you had um qwerty keyboards and that's the feel that i'm getting from the existing version of metamask come on it's not that bad well it's i don't want to you know be disrespectful obviously they've done a lot of great things and i guess like the extension is the best still

um on the market um but the mobile experience it really sucks and it sucks for everyone it's not just them i think it's just you know not working and with lyrics it's also completely broken uh what we are excited about is the the next version of wallet connect um which we are also kind of like working uh closely with uh the volcanic team uh to kind of shape up this a bit i'm excited about i've seen like what richard burton uh was was publishing recently uh about the safari extensions like in ios 15. so i think the ux of the world experience on mobile and the browsing experience can already be better that's first and this is what we're going to do and it it

can be become you know a million times better than even using say like your uh traditional login type of stuff from web to um just by the nature of web3 uh yeah in terms of specifics we we want to utilize all the capabilities of native native operating systems so on desktop it's going to be you know uh touch id on your mac and it's going to be a you know seamless connection with uh the dap and it's getting it can happen in any browser not just through an extension in chrome so you don't actually have to install an extension the keys will be synchronized between devices so you don't have to you

know move keys around everything will be in the key store um yeah so these are like the small parts of it it's definitely going to work with every dap um hopefully through world connect 2.0 um as soon as it comes out um yeah and some other plants that i'm not going to talk about yeah d5 mobile huge um i know that the cielo network team is working big on that in fact that's like their that is their only priority is bringing d5 to mobile um yeah i mean that's kind of like has been the next step yeah i was just saying that it has been their priority for quite some time

because i've been speaking with their team a while ago uh yeah i guess uh the big difference oh yeah one thing i forgot to mention uh answering the previous question so speaking of metamask it's like the only reason why people spend so much time on like on zero already is that because we show the correct portfolio so for them in order to kind of like be competitive they would need to do a lot on uh kind of like the ux of overall experience so these are transactions portfolio tracking nfts better nft support etc so all the stuff that we've been doing um they would have to re-implement so for us to add a bow it seems like an easier pull than for for them to add everything that relates to the actual product experience so

that's that's how we we think about it nice yeah ultimately they the these kind of over these tracking mechanisms are going to be under one roof and it's easier for zerion to build out a wallet than metamask filled out the entire tracker there there is some there is plenty of kind of ux issues uh as far as adding tokens to the wallet um they don't have nft compatibility um you know just just a few of the things that you mentioned and even the the exchange function is is very clunky uh like within their extension so rather than plugging into all of these different places ultimately they'll kind of fall under one suite is what you're saying um

and and you're really positioning zirion to to be that suite of d5 products well not just d5 but really the entire metaverse all i want is a one place where i can go to a multi-chain wallet aggregator dex aggregator a lending and borrowing aggregator and nft aggregator where i can just do everything in one place all my trades get the best liquidity across all the chains i can view all the nfts on all the chains that i have all in one place i can do everything on every chain in one place without ever having to move evgeny what the hell is taking so long dude that's the only right question here [Laughter] um i'm excited for the sorry andy we're

we're working on this yeah right a big narrative right now too um is bridges i mean people are gassed up about these bridges you know you know being able to do this and this and move move from here to here um you know that's some that's definitely something that is that the traditional users like are going to have no clue how to do or why to do it but if d5 can make the you know the front end easy like you just press the button like to go from here to here and it happens quick like great because i think bridges are like far too complicated for anybody to really get into unless they're like in it already and ultimately yeah right like if the liquidity is aggregated who you know

what why does it matter what chain you're operating on i think that's a big question for sure um actually i'm not sure if i would say that like we should necessarily fall into uh let's just not care about what chain the ask lives on i think it make matters for some people it doesn't matter for others um so there are quite a bit of complexity associated with like the ux of it so you can make it like really simple you don't even need to think about where your acid lives but what if it you know just most of your acid end up being on some you know new unproven centralized chain which happens to have some liquid at some point and then you're kind of like stuck and suddenly

all your assets are gone because of uh that reason that like who is responsible for that type of uh like for putting your money into that that specific chain um so i guess with that we started thinking that in the beginning at least we should be giving people the option so better educate and not hide and try to get people to understand what it doesn't mean to store assets of ethereum versus like storing them on binary smart chain what are the risks and benefits of either approaches and then like let them decide and then in the future i guess we'll we'll start to remove some of the stuff that is unnecessarily to for users to see um so yeah i i would say that's not the the simplest solution just to hide everything from the user because uh with

like you know these lts are still in kind of like beta type of uh stage and everything can go sideways easily um yeah so i wouldn't risk the user's funds um for that matter yeah it's definitely not an easy easy thing to to accomplish and making an easy tool like that's probably why we haven't seen a major cross-chain decks yet um yeah it would i guess what it would take is like um as soon as you press transact it would have to search for the best liquidity across all the dexes which would obviously be on ethereum um unless some crazy payer which is you know

obviously okay too like for example avalanche has their own tokens and then it would have to bridge your funds to that chain immediately conduct a trade bridge it back to where you started and then give you the give you the token which that sounds like a lot of gas and it sounds like a lot of time so however however that can be accomplished quickly it would be insane i think we're still years or at least a year away probably that's a good question yeah i i don't know it seems like you know there are quite a few teams working on something similar um so we we know that mover for example is working on that and you know there's hop exchange and there's the next and uh yeah everyone is trying to solve this

and it's it's going to be interesting to see how that evolves i think we'll see different types of use cases and different types of chains so some you know basic trading would mainly happen i guess like even out i would i would say that it's going to happen outside of ethereum so obviously some volume will still be on ethereum maybe on ltu's which is still fairly expensive some less important stuff uh speculation is going to happen i guess outside of maybe like these 2.0 um but voting rights so the governance i think would be held on ethereum uh all the treasuries are going to be on the theorem that's just my my you know guess at the moment so the stuff that is important and uh

valuable and really like and important not to lose that's going to be on on ether and i think we'll have so many votes happening and like so many unchanged you know funds moving stuff around in dallas and everything that's that's gonna you know already overwhelm ethereum the trading stuff is like going to to move to some kind like more centralized faster venues yeah that's my stake on it interesting yeah the systemic types of uh changes that that could be in effect are you know on ethereum because it's the most secure um and then we're even seeing kind of yeah nfts really really spawn from ethereum probably because

it's just been around the longest and it has kind of the cultural and historical background to support some some really uh just high valuable highly valuable nfts but now other chains are starting to pop up as well which is probably where that trend continues um to be able to onboard uh the masses into something with you know low gas um and as kind of these nfts start to emerge with some more utility um whether it's part of a game or if it's some interconnectedness in their community you know that that can only really be handled by some other chain other than ethereum yeah i think that's that's right that's the current state of things and uh i

think that's kind of cool you know we'll have some og nfts living out there like crypto punks for example but like even metadata stored in east super expensive to to make a transaction and then we'll have a ton of like small cap type of nfts used for you know events or whatever like anything uh vadim had this uh cool idea that nfts are the new cookies of the blockchain world uh i i kind of like this i think it resonates quite a bit so definitely not the cookies you know crypto punks are not going to be the cookies but the stuff that will be on like all the chains um that are you know the satellite chains it's going to be massive millions

of nfgs and on millions of floats uh yeah yeah guys moon cats are undervalued 2017 oh dude for price 1.2 like come on guys they are undervalued look it's a it's a good hat like come on it's the cookies of web 3. oh man yeah now it's really interesting to see the development of of kind of how we alternate to these change honestly there's nfts on different chains right now that are you know that are going crazy as as well because kind of less people are are there and they're easier to use um cheaper i know solana's been seeing a whole lot of traction um you know and there's a lot of stuff going on

with with the with the nfc game with the multi-chain world game and i mean there's just too much to keep up with and i think that's kind of what i'm most excited about um in the next year or so is just how this multi-chain world evolves and develops and kind of which chains that we're using now become the eos and the trons and the dragon chains and which chains you know stick around for three four five six and then eventually if you stick around for the next three four or five years you're probably gonna be around for another ten um so that'll be a really interesting thing to kind of watch play out right now it seems like cordon is next to us i'm not sure if this is a very unpopular opinion but um i've you know i've tried using cordata

it doesn't like eos no it works i guess like it does send transactions but eos was like it was the worst i think like when you need to pay to create an account i think that was the most stupid idea that i've ever seen within like the blockchain space yeah isn't it crazy that those projects could have capitalized so huge on d5 if they had just built and just kept building and just not just basically like i don't know just screwed off and the only thing was there wasn't really d5 in 1718 so like they didn't really have a lot to build with like we we hardly even had stable coins um so it was kind of tough for them to see what was coming but man like if eos just like kept building they would be

they'd be d5 powerhouse right now um but again they didn't have the tooling and yeah you know we'll look back and and say that in a few years about some projects that we see now well i think they were just trying to attract a different kind of people so ethereum was always so focused on developers and uh that's why they like it and that's why they sticked around and started building stuff because like you know ethereum didn't plan for d5 didn't plan for nfts it just emerged naturally without them like essentially anticipating all of the stuff that's gonna be happening so with the eos i guess they were mainly focused on investors and not um on the you know users uh aka developers

yeah i think so solana is an example of of a team that continued to build you know through through the bear markets and and kind of the ups and downs in the prices um kind of they had the foresight to see what was coming and uh kept on building and actually shipping product whereas teams like you know cardano eos um have had all these kind of lofty ideas had more of an investor-oriented approach and and simply just didn't really ship anything and now kind of now that we have a more substantial user base you know they're lacking that community around their their products because they were never able to get um to a point

where people can use their technology um it's it's interesting to me how a lot of um people have continued to follow those early stage projects um cardano polkadot but they've never really shipped you know like why and i guess i it's tough for me to put myself in that kind of that per that type of person's shoes where you know why why continue to follow something where they they haven't really delivered on on their promises or ideas yeah well i guess you can say the same thing about the theorem so i guess from the twitter feed it looks somewhat similar for someone who is not really deep into

the water so ethereum did not for example deliver on the promises to move to like you know proof of stake as early as like i don't know 2017 so it's been you know years and years they've been delaying stuff and uh and but it doesn't mean they haven't been doing stuff so they've been working uh i guess like hard uh to the extent possible so i think for like it's hard to blame someone for not understanding that intricacies like the small technicalities uh go into analyzing these chains um yeah um and really hard to say even for people who are ogs of crypto uh selecting like what's gonna take off uh i think price is really sometimes independent from

what they actually the team ships unless they're like especially on the bull market and after that you know stuff is figured out most of the time yeah yeah okay and a lot of the ogs are kind of uh you know pretty pretty well off these days kind of um hanging out in the shadows either helping contributing posting and i mean you kind of you kind of deserve this euphoria that we're seeing today as bitcoin breaks 55 000 54 000 and and you're just kind of sitting back like you know i survived 2017 2018 i didn't blow up on leverage trading i didn't you know like it was i mean it was dark man like twitter was dead and nobody was building there was just nothing going on like there was no volume on on altcoin payers like

it's just like it was slow and i mean they're like the new people coming in this year and last year like great like we totally want them to crush it you know do well but like you know the ones who've stayed along for for the ride the last few years i mean you know we deserve it almost right so it's kind of like you know go get them and like enjoy that euphoria vibes and uh enjoy like the portfolio tracker because well i mean you know push through so it's good oh man so so you know jenny we uh we're nearing kind of the top of the hour here and there's one question that we we ask um pretty much every every podcast guest we probably asked last

time i i i'm sorry to say i don't remember who your answer was but uh yeah we'll we'll go ahead and ask again and maybe we'll check back to see if the answer was the same so the question is uh okay so i'll i'll go ahead and say it again if you were to uh pitch anyone in the world uh you know quick 60-second elevator pitch um on zirion and and on d5 and crypto the entire metaverse um you know who who would it be to to pitch to and and why it's a good idea uh good question good question let me think for a second so the question is like who would i

pitch syrian to um and why um that's a hard one someone gigafans [Music] who yeah who do you want to bring into the metaverse oh that's yeah let me let me think for another second uh it's a really hard one because i'm you know they're i'm battling between quite a few different options um and i can like i can see the disadvantages of like many of them uh let's just say um [Music] okay let's go ahead with putin

i think that's that's a funny one [Laughter] and he doesn't even use internet as far as i know um and he i don't think he just like sees the the the upside and the potential of like how that can evolve so bringing bringing him in uh like at least trying to explain that to him would be a big benefit because like currently we see this you know us versus china trying to battle over like who is the going to be you know the worst for crypts i think that's the competition they're in right now uh so i think there's a good chance that you know and that's also going to be great for us if putin gets it uh but yeah uh that

that's i don't actually remember who i said last time um do you guys remember no i don't think so but putin is about as good as it gets in terms of uh of the answers so that's awesome um yeah man well hey it was an absolute pleasure afternoon i appreciate you coming on and uh you know and zerion sponsoring defuselate of course it's been an absolute journey these these last few years and yeah i mean i mean enjoy the uh enjoy the pumps we we've earned it and um yeah don't dump too hard on on all the news all right thank you guys it was a pleasure thank you