DeFi By Design EP#40: Uniting Content Creators in DeFi w/ Kris Kay

Transcript

[Music] d5 slate team [Music] what's up y'all real quick if you like the d5 state content on twitter and youtube and sub stack please please give us a like and a subscribe on this video on youtube and join our channel join the community we'd really appreciate it we're pumping this stuff out for you all as much as we can and we really enjoy the support and the community that we've built thank you very much and enjoy what's going on y'all welcome to episode 40 of the d5 by design podcast uh here today with chris k aka d5 donut we're just a band of content creators here in d5

uh it's good to kind of get the d5 content creators together there's quite a few now i think it's just going to keep on growing um you know and and surely there's competition right we're all trying to make um you know our money our offers our sponsors are this are that but i think there's way more room for collaboration currently uh then there is competition i know gabriel haynes is trying to formulate some sort of creators dow um you know and such like that and so i'm excited to kind of hear more from chris about his journey into crypto content creation what he's seeing things he's learned and some insights into the current market structures and what's going on uh you know in d5 here today of course with co-host robbie what's going on rob how are you feeling

yo yo yup it's another beautiful day in florida uh just enjoying it out here um yeah i'm super hyped to talk to d5 donut today um you know like you said that that's been a motto uh at d5 slate gone you know way back since we started it has been collaboration over competition um ultimately there there's still so much more room to grow in the d5 ecosystem uh a lot of that comes down to still narrowing this learning curve um and i think that's really what what you know these content creators such as ourselves um are trying to bring to the masses is education uh ultimately as as the bridge to adoption so

yeah i will uh pass it over to chris and let him introduce himself yeah what's up guys uh glad to be on so basically to like speed this up um my first like introduction to crypto was around in like 2013 um i was in my freshman college dorm room and it was like right before that um like that huge silk road thing kind of came up and at the time i think bitcoin was like anywhere between like 13 to 30 dollars and i was like cool look like i heard people are mining it and making money so you know as a broke 19 year old 18 year old freshman i was like first thing that came to mind i was like cool i'm trying to make some money so i tried mining it on my laptop uh

i i was mining it but i wasn't really mining anything so i kind of gave up i was like whatever this is stupid and uh yeah then i don't know if it was that's later that same year or early the next one but that silk road stuff like popped off where it was like cover of time magazine you know uh ross obrecht i think his name was was like got caught up and um yeah then like bitcoin really caught my attention because it went to like i think that's when it like made its run to like 900 or a thousand dollars and i was like damn like okay um but yeah then then it kind of like died down and i didn't really think about it too much until like 2016 2017 right before that crazy pool mania and that's when i first started getting

like financially involved um you know i survived that that crazy bull run you know i didn't really do anything crazy i missed out on some money for like selling early but i'm not driving about it now uh learned a lot and then of course d5 summer which i know a lot of people know about in this space is what really like uh caught my god my interest caught my eye and yeah um when i started hearing about like staking and you know compound basically i had like bat basic attention token was like one of my holdings right and during d5 summer it like skyrocketed and i was like what the hell is going on so you know i went online and i figured out there was like some farm like liquidity farming that was going on on compound

and the bat token had like the highest apy i think so it was getting bought and locked up bought and locked up and i was like okay why are people doing this so i found out how compound works and yeah and if from there on out it was like you know that that's how it all started basically that was one of my first uh intros to argent app as well i remember having that on like uh must have been like binance or coinbase or something just sitting there transferred it over to arjun dumped it in the compound for like 26 percent apy and then it was gone later yeah that was it dude yeah that was that was nuts and then and then just because you did that or if you did a bit of uniswap transactions on on argentine is why did i add liquidity

like one pool then come what like november you just got four thousand dollars in the air drop yeah yeah which is a lot more now but yeah it's crazy yeah immediately what's up if you don't if you don't mind me asking did you sell the airdrop or like what was your thesis on that no it wasn't immediate um but i still think it's crazy the fact that that even happened but now i feel like that spoiled people and everybody except is it like expecting an airdrop from like everywhere like uh i know zapper everybody's like when's the token when's the token was their job yeah you swear i think you swap did it right um it's definitely like interesting yeah it it's gonna be interesting seeing

how uh future airdrops play out i mean plenty of people have uh you know been experienced and exposed to them at this point i i think another big one's coming up with uh ethereum cash when uh the miners kind of oppose eip 1559 this is still a bit speculative kind of a theory not not really rooted in any on-chain at least governance decisions at this point but um from some of the people you know that that we're talking to it seems like the miners right they don't want to get cut out of the system when eth 2.0 goes to proof of stake and yeah completely transfers out of proof of work all the all the miners are going to be just you know without

the hardware yeah and stuck with hardware so um yeah it'll be it'll be interesting to see if they continue the chain and ultimately create something like eth cash and what people do with it do they sell it right away do they think it has some relevance like uh ethereum classic yeah who knows man the market like recently is on a you know most mostly irrational so i really your guess is good as mine uh people are crazy man i really don't know but yeah i heard that too from i think on bank lists one of the one of the two hosts said it that that could be a scenario but i don't know i'm not really waiting on anything i don't i don't know i think miners are

a little spoiled as well especially after this recent run but i think proof of stake is definitely a better option regardless yeah yeah got paid dude yeah yeah big time big time paid and now they can sell their hardware if proof of stake happens uh i i saw on ebay all the uh all the mine equipment in this recent kind of downturn has been uh repriced like 10 or 20 percent cheaper than it was um that's a whole industry that like people who are new to the space um like don't don't see but once you've like witnessed like 2017 like that's a that's an investment just as good as crypto is buying a bunch of uh mining equipment for bitcoin or litecoin you know down in the dumps when when no

one's paying attention and then having the ability to sell it to a speculator you know once once you know the prices rise up yeah but that's the thing man miners all they do is mine it and sell it minus so they're like complaining of getting like pay cuts or whatever but like oh you were the one selling ethereum at eight hundred dollars and nine hundred dollars you were dumping it like if you were to just see the way it's set up now like miners don't have an incentive like they don't have skin in the game but with proof of stake if you have you know 32 eth locked up per validator then basically indirectly you want your your stack to grow so you believe in it that i think that's that's the better option hands down

because miners all they do is literally just dump to pay for their monthly expenses for electricity and stuff so yeah i think that's gotta go and it's a great decision overall yeah i remember the the price of bitcoin combo when it was at like 6 000 and the having was coming up it was like all right like this either has to go up or miners are going to go underwater for a while and hash rate could drop yet i think the incentives for uh for for proof of stake definitely bring along uh more capabilities to like an economic network um but i think undoubtedly as well if if bitcoin wasn't started as proof of work uh and ethereum two really then i think it'd be very very tough for this all have to have been created at this point um

just from like us a security standpoint yeah you know for uh the presence of bitcoin has hard money right like yeah yeah there's definitely an argument that like proof of work is you know big for security which to be honest i'm not like 100 fully educated on you know how how that is like happening with bitcoin and their proof work model but yeah i just think if i was a minor and you know this upgrade is happening i would kind of be excited like i can sell all this like shitty equipment and just buy eath lock it up and just watch it grow on my like gaming pc that cost like a thousand bucks

i think it's just but i don't know why anybody would be salty unless you like went crazy on hardware you have like a warehouse but even then you just i don't know i don't know i couldn't tell you what you're thinking yeah yeah yeah and it it'll be interesting to see if people that uh you know are coming into the space now primarily focused on defy just lose interest in bitcoin and yeah yeah i don't see a a really strong reason for why ethereum should be correlated to bitcoin at in price at this point because they're they're attacking two you know completely different problems yeah bitcoin with hard money and ethereum as that decentralized computer

you know just base layer for all of these application layers of digital finance um yeah so you know if people lose interest in bitcoin or don't you know have as much uh belief in the mining network you know will that have adverse effects on crypto as as a whole ecosystem yeah let's talk about it that's actually like a really that's a topic that like i think about like what would happen if when ethereum flips bitcoin like i truly wonder since like bitcoin that's like the branding right number one top dog always you know never fallen i wonder like what what happens to crypto narrative or

maybe if it's just the bitcoin narrative that gets you know affected i don't know what do you guys think yeah if i i've been thinking about this too not just if ethereum flips i and i think that's a when not an if so right so when ethereum flips bitcoin and market cap um if bitcoin you know drives all the way down and ethereum takes over this this store of value narrative um then you know why why still have bitcoin there's going to be something with what is perceived as a stronger network and you know there there's the incentives that are aligned

and yeah so i guess kind of questions that are wrapped up here like if bitcoin goes to zero because ethereum flips it i don't think it will go to zero but i definitely think there is a high possibility of ethereum eclipsing it in market cap i mean it's already eclipsed in functionality and use we've seen that like nothing happens on the bitcoin network like one percent of all bitcoin is on ethereum not the other way around like if you have bitcoin you're either it's collecting dust in your wallet or you're wrapping it and you know putting it to work in d5 so like okay cool star value like ethereum is probably just as good or getting there so like bitcoin has

really evolved from this store of value narrative to more of a store of energy narrative because that's what proof of work is is storing this energy into a currency where ethereum is store of value but it's storing other value like this economic value this social value yeah yeah i just had a tweet that went crazy like just yesterday um where i think it was like paypal settled 936 billion dollars in 2020. ethereum settled that same amount in 17 days from may 1st to may 17.

why and yeah paypal i mean i'm not just saying like ethereum is equivalent to paypal because like eth is the commodity and then you know paypal is just a service but end of the day there's way more activity economic activity going on in ethereum like way more and try to get that comparison i think you got to sum up not just paypal but paypal visa swift you know all of that has to be summed up if you're going to try to compare it to ethereum's total addressable market maybe yeah and i'm not saying like growth obviously the growth potential is huge for ethereum but i'm just saying like something that's worth more than ethereum right now

is being dwarfed by what ethereum's actually doing and providing and then like i don't know i'm seeing people like getting salty in the replies like yeah but uh the ethereum fees are high well yeah that's literally supply and demand and that's actually working against your argument because every transaction even if i'm sending funds to myself i have to pay a fee so i'm i'm willingly paying that fee because i want to use the network so if paypal had the fees that ethereum has it would not settle nearly as much value yet ethereum's doing it in exponential amounts so yeah i think it was an interesting step on the on on the bitcoin comparison as well i mean i mean bitcoin is is uh is like the

digital gold narrative kind of thing it's like uh yeah it's kind of a backbone if all other crypto networks fail you kind of still have this backbone in your in your uh in your toolkit you know it's like um you know i would never advise anybody to go all in on one on one blockchain you know i would never say go only put all your funds on a theme only put all your funds on solana only on bitcoin you're kind of setting yourself up for you know a very concentrated and risk uh you know so so i think i think that's one big thing i think it's it's super crucial that the blockchains are separate um but i think that the bitcoin having a d5 purpose is far-fetched um you know i think it's i think it's just

i don't know i think it's beautiful for what it does it's like great like even if it's just sitting in a ledger that you never touch that's locked away and hidden and buried it's like that's exactly where where the value is and i think it's because it's super liquid um you know it's like yeah i mean i think i think generally speaking we'll see sort of yet a social capital shift and an intellectual capital shift towards blockchains that are promoting um programmable money and kind of the bitcoins will just kind of rain um but i think deep down every so every ethereum or every maximalist or chain um you know every defy user has a bit of bitcoin maximalism in them due to the nature of like how they were entered into the ecosystem

and like kind of relying on still yeah yeah no i mean i love bitcoin you know it the story is amazing the whole satoshi amazing story crazy like the whole block chain everything it's awesome and i a part of me hopes that it stays on top number one um but at the same time like what what do you do with your bickel you said like it's great you lock it up you forget about it collects dust but like i can do that with you know plenty of other things like okay cool like proof of work but like i don't think any of us have used the bitcoin blockchain in the last year yeah i know me like i there's nothing i can

do so like what's the value and i think large players see that too you know i think large players will be able to like institutions will see d5 i think they already do as you know price to equity ratios right they see and the fees and the burning and such i think that would be a lot more attractive um yeah i mean that's got to be like the next big thing for ethan is becoming an institutional asset bitcoins already institutionalized um which has been very helpful for the ecosystem as a whole yeah yeah somebody in my replies actually said something pretty funny um they said eats biggest problem is it has too much utility and i keep spending it and makes you think like yeah like it's

i don't know man ethan's becoming like not even even slowly it's quickly becoming something very valuable and very different it's an asset that we haven't seen like the bankless guys say it's like a triple point asset right where it's like commodity um uh commodity capital asset and soon to be you know stored valued yeah after this upgrade so yeah i don't know i don't know but personally i yeah go ahead i was gonna say all of us are are using ethereum now basically without any permission any any you know anybody in the world can use it um you know i think that's definitely one big thing for like the globality i mean it's it's it's tough to use bitcoin right now because the wallets are just not there it coinbase and there's there's a lot of functionality but

it's definitely easier to just hop on metamask and start to use you know but um i'm kind of wondering if some regulations could could cause issues for the d5 community and ethereum as a whole you know some of the best parts of using d5 right now is basically being able to do it almost tracelessly while everything's on chain and open it's very much so private key and cryptography based um you know i'm wondering what what you think chris about these uh impending regulations if if they are coming kyc you know aml and you know in in addition to that like how each nation state could govern or could could regulate crypto and kind of like the space race to figure out the best strategy um so as far as regulation and you know

that's that's an argument a lot of people that don't know [ __ ] about like ethereum or d5 love to bring up is that it's used for uh for crime right um but thing is if i'm doing any type of criminal transaction i'd want you to pay me in cash because it's not traceable ethereum or anything on the network you can literally trace oh it went from coinbase to this wallet to this wallet then back to coinbase like i think it's actually set up for regulation pretty well like me personally i don't mind if it was regulated right sure it's it's easy actually you could probably some i'm sure somebody out there is writing a software that can just crawl all your transactions and calculate you know your returns your interest like that's great

so i think like regulation can be fine if done properly but yeah i don't know a lot of people are so maybe that i'm not part of that community that's like you know uh cypherpunks and you know i don't i don't want anybody watching my money and i wanna you know forever like you know keep it secret in my finances but like i think the goal is permissionless finance whether like i don't care i'll pay my taxes on what i earn but as long as you know my earning potential is so much higher in the d5 world and the capital efficiency is just crazy right so i think even if it was regulated like okay so it is hard because it's like a global network and like how yeah there's definitely challenges but

uh i'm sure there was plenty of challenges to regulating the internet as well but you know here we are on the internet right now so yeah i'm not sure i'm not sure how regulation will play out but i don't think it's anything to be afraid of personally yeah an example of what you're talking about how it's uh actually easier to get caught if you're using a blockchain whereas these these guys that caused the oil shortage in the states uh they they hacked into like a pipeline and shut it down and demanded a ransom in bitcoin um and they they paid the ransom but then a few weeks later ended up getting a lot of that ransom back

and tracking down the people that you know committed the crime uh through a result of detecting their ip address through where they sent the bitcoin um yeah not sure how they were able to do that but you know through cryptography and tools that they have so yeah like you're saying you you'd want to get paid in cash um it's not you know the the easiest or the the most effective way to launder money you know commit crime so why would you do it um i i i like kind of similar to you i'm not so concerned about about regulation on that standpoint but uh the potential of a

of a central bank digital currency um you know if it originates somewhere else um maybe doesn't happen in the states for a while but i i think that is you know something already being explored in china and um yeah that you know we're seeing what china's doing to crypto if that gets just you know copied in in other countries um it'll be an interesting approach whether whether the us takes that or not um and kind of the regulation that these these nations have around crypto if they choose to go that route yeah and honestly i think china banning

bitcoin or crypt whatever i think that's a good move like we don't care about about china like at this point like i i tweeted uh something a couple of days ago of like all the companies that china has banned like the microsoft instagram youtube facebook google like i think it's probably bullish if china's banning you personally because they don't like transparency they don't like openness they don't like innovation they like something they can control right so you know i could care personally i could care less obviously the market you know short term they're irrational any news you know like the chinese president just sneezed like oh my god let's dump it i could care less i think i think it's whatever for china to ban but yeah i think nations

or countries individual countries won't aren't as you know dumb for lack of a better word to do something that extreme but i guess we'll see that's the thing about kind of space races like if you prohibit your country's talent to you know leave basically or you prohibit them from interacting with d5 or crypto and that forces them to leave i mean you're basically giving away your mind share to other countries which is basically which is a net negative for any any political leader in you know in one of these countries um you know and it becomes super global um you know i think it's up to kind of people like us to educate as much as we can on the on the on the upsides

and the beneficial uh aspects of of d5 and of crypto to kind of make sure that we help these regulators and help these nations and and help form communities that can you know add maybe a regulatory layer or such i mean we've we've spoken to uh joseph from shift network and they're basically trying to add a regulatory layer to a lot of d5 protocols kind of like a option for you to use kyc or an option for you to you know fill in some sort of information um so things like that are super crucial and us being able to educate people on that you know it is going to be important um you know i'm curious chris what you think is kind of needed in the d5 content space and in the marketing space right there's a lot of educational

newsletters there's a lot of youtube channels there's a lot of of things happening but you know what do we kind of need to break into that next level of of um you know of of awareness that say that uh that the stock market kind of has or that bitcoin kind of has or that the equities mark kind of has obviously those have been around for some time but you know aside from time you know what do you think the the content space in d5 could really you know need or or improve on yeah uh personally i think it's uh which i think you guys get it um it's the dumbed-down explanations right i think everything's so intimidating especially d5 right now right early stages um everybody is like trying to explain

it as they're learning it right so they learn what a smart contract is and they're trying to explain it to their uncle like you your uncle doesn't need to know what that is like we need to abstract them right just like when we drive everybody drives a car we don't know how engine works right that's the thing we need to teach them like this is the gas this is the brake this is a steering wheel right like this like metamaster bank account um you know ave is an app ethereum's kind of like an app store and just breaking it down like that's at least how i do it right when i make content or videos um i always make like keep in the back of my head like will my mom and dad understand this right uh you know people want that explain like on five definition but

i think the better one is explain like i'm 65 and that's what i kind of go for yeah yeah yeah that that that seems uh useful i i i like that that style um so something that kind of what i find makes the best content as well just as you know kind of after this is episode 40 right so you know after 40 episodes of the podcast um one of the biggest takeaways is when i learn as much myself it seems that the people who are watching you know are also learning uh the most effectively then so yeah that that that's kind of been my approach

um is you know kind of as we're talking to the these people that are much smarter than us um just learning as much as possible from them and then hopefully that that you know information is gonna just seep into the rest of the audience yeah yeah i think we we like content creators we have to be a filter between the smart guys and the dumb guys and i'm not you know that's not meant to be offensive but like it's a new technology like most of us are dumb like mo like i'm i personally didn't even know half the stuff a year and a half ago like at all so it's okay to be a dumb guy in a in a you know new innovative space but yeah right now there's just a

bunch of smart guys in crypto world that don't know how to explain things and content creators are the ones that will stand out are the you know the filters in between that and that's that's what i'm trying to be yeah personally what do you think about organizing all or most or some of content creators in d5 into like this dow structure like do you think there's a conflict of interest do you think it's it could work do you think it could expand like perhaps uh seeing like a super collaborative nature you know what do you think about that yeah um so i'm i'm in that like group group chat whatever with you know the creator dao thing um i just right now at least i haven't

really discussed uh in detail but i just don't see how that would work out you know personally like everybody has their different style different formats of how they do things and you know if adapt comes along and wants you know exposure i just like you said it's not really competition but at the same time like i want to do it my way and then like how are we going to split that up and i'm like okay this guy can take this part and i'm going to take this part i just don't think the creative process works like that so i don't i don't see at least right now how a dow is really that answer for you know organized content organizing content creators i don't know i don't know i could be wrong there could be like a better used case but i'm

trying to figure that out right now so yeah what do you guys think yeah i i think the bankless dow is a great experiment um yeah you know they they put forth a model that seems to have worked so far they have you know a good community behind them and they're all uh contributing it it's different some something like you know this this dow of creators and content contributors and educators um is different from the bank list now because we're all doing the same thing we're all we're all putting these videos out you know about these different

technologies um so we're all kind of you know there there is plenty of room for collaboration but you know ultimately we're we're competing for you know the content the viewers the audience yeah like if if a dab comes right and we're all in a dow and there's other like podcasters with like a similar style of years and okay we want um you know our founder to be on a podcast like who gets who gets them on their channel yeah the the potential way out of that is um right because in the bank list now they have pla they have lots of different um guilds i think is what they're called and they all

contribute a different purpose um so each of those kind of represent like you know people doing different things but they all have different media nodes set up in this bank list style and they have a great setup over there i i you know hope to see they have success i i think a way to be unique and a potential solution for uh kind of building these different nodes similar to that model is have some physical locations in this creator dao and and i i think that is one one way that it could work you know all of these uh content creators

uh for the most part i say 90 are um public you know not not anonymous uh contributors so you know if there could be some sort of public like workspace that um is like a content creation studio i i think it could it could represent these nodes within this um you know ecosystem that ultimately has an aligned set of participants yeah but i mean it's starting to sound like it would be like a buzzfeed it becomes kind of like a company right and not individual creative creators right so i think the beauty in it especially for content creation

is that you know everybody's kind of quote unquote competing because then you you know competition breeds better quality products for the end users so if we're all just under the same umbrella and you know i just don't see how that worked i wanted to work it sounded great and you know maybe it is maybe i'm wrong but personally like i just don't see like i want to make the content that i want to make you know permissionlessly right that that's the whole like d5 is permissionless but then in a doubt you kind of have to you know vote and like you don't get to make this he gets to make this so there's going to be some people that are going to be upset i don't know how how that'll work yeah and you get to like like the liability and who you take on as clients your sponsors

and that kind of stuff i mean we had you know with the shared stake team a month or so ago and then now they've rug pulled and we've apologized publicly talked to them in discord and all that but like that i'm curious you know to you about is kind of how do you protect yourself from uh you know and your audience from like uh from rug pools and nefarious actors anon teams or not you know you know what's your your kind of framework there um well i like to focus on like the established protocols right um i don't go out of my way to you know make um you know some yield farming guides for a protocol that just came out yesterday and it's got a great uh stable coin

called iron and um yeah i don't know i i just most of my guides for like beginners are i stick to like ave pull together compound uh you know things like that that i know probably not gonna be red pools right um yeah i think for me that i i haven't really thought about it but basically i'm i'm teaching things that i'm doing right so i'm not really a crazy you know d genuine farmer going to which i did go into iron but you know whatever but yeah it's i teach what i'm doing so you know if we're in it together basically i'm not like maliciously trying to promote something that might you know rug pull you so that's

how i go about it if i'm doing it i'm teaching it so it is what it is yeah i think this transition from like the 2017 paid group kind of era into like and now d5 content creators is so much better i mean just so much more quality so much less less like shills and just paid shows on twitter and stuff and we avoid all that stuff any low cap stuff there's just no need to get involved um you know and and yeah i mean we we all have gems that we're farming or that we're looking at now but you know it's like yeah it's really a matter of what you're using and you know the quality protocols especially with sponsors too i mean the thing with sponsors is most of them are quality protocols because they've got the capital built you know

to do marketing and i really like that arrangement you know it the sponsorship arrangement is is is very beneficial for for both parties and it it definitely creates like that that collaborative nature um you know then that's the business model of content creation right you got like the youtube uh all the monetization there sponsors you know any sort of paid community offers or paid courses or anything like that um you know you know that's kind of like like the main model um you know i think it's something that that anybody can do um you know so who who are you working with um right now like do you have a team of some editors or or buddies that help you out kind of what's your structure like yeah so um right now i'm doing literally everything myself um editing

content reaching out grant applications everything i'm doing myself um which will probably change soon just because kind of getting you know it's it's becoming a lot um but yeah for now just solo always have been awesome nice yeah yeah that's kind of how we started as well and just expand it out to some editors and some and some people to help post and and just stuff like that and now it's a bit more automated and you know and we're looking to go and build you know into other things to bring awareness to to d5 from kind of like a consulting level with advisors and institutions and such i mean right you got to get money and to pump your bags right but like it's really about just like getting the awareness right and um you

know being able to constantly on board more users into into detail yeah and uh as far as like sponsors and stuff go i will only work with a protocol that i use and that like i actually like like i won't take you know offers for from something like i've never heard about and um yeah i think that's important too not just take every bag um i recently partnered with an exclusive sponsorship with pool together which i think that what they're doing is awesome man the team amazing product amazing i'm using it obviously and um yeah yeah i think that's important yeah instead of the instead of the lottery i mean the the the lower class would be wouldn't be in the lower class for

for all that much longer i mean [ __ ] even if they don't win anything at least they're saving instead of just burning yeah yeah yeah yeah plus it's it's an interesting money lego as well that's being used by other protocols i i think there's huge potential period in that air drop too that they had yeah yeah yeah it's cool for those who don't know it's basically like a a lottery based uh kind of a savings account so you put you put your money in and it doesn't really grow necessarily i i think maybe it farms some pool tokens maybe yeah you get you get pull tokens um at least for right now so you're getting some pool tokens just for having your money in there but it's basically a no-loss lottery or prize-linked savings account however

you want to call it yeah and uh yeah instead of buying tickets like you would at a lottery where you just literally exchange your dollar for tickets um your funds are pulled together with everybody else's funds and pull together takes them earns interest in d5 that interest becomes a prize money so a couple lucky winners every week and nobody really loses so it's great it's great yeah it's awesome um there's some sort of lock up there for like a week i think you know in the in that time frame i remember my butt was like it was in the beginning of defy summer and he was uh he was pretty levered up on ave and he took he took his borrow and dumped it into a pool together and the market shot itself for like a week and he was so close to

liquidation with like no collateral left and he was like i mean that's that's obviously not like you know a common thing but that that was my intro to it and then i started yeah that's how i got the the air job yeah solid so it's not really a lock up uh it's just a withdrawal penalty which i think is like one percent something like that yeah so it's not too bad but it's basically put in place to kind of prevent whales from gaming the system right because the thing with pull together is like if you deposit a minute after the one week like the prize is chosen for that week you're still eligible to win so they don't want like somebody coming in with you know 100 milli last minute winning then pulling it out going to farm it somewhere right because people's money like earns the prize

money right so they want to incentivize people not to do that which i think is a great uh game theory kind of play there for them definitely yeah i think that that concept is big it was it was one of the first d5 concepts that i heard of also token sets which is kind of like slowed down i haven't really heard a whole lot from them i mean they're still active in building but that was also a really really you know cool project kind of in the beginning of the summer i wonder how they're doing yeah well isn't index co-op like kind of building on top of them or like i don't know exactly how it works but like index co-op basically is doing pretty damn good with their with their kind of like etf

based like index indexes of um different different niches in crypto but yeah um token sets is interesting index co-op is i don't own any index tokens or anything yet but i'm definitely gonna dive into that because i think that's a really important money lego as well sweet yeah i mean we're kind of wrapping up here on time i mean i guess i i i asked on the last podcast i think it's super relevant still for those still listening kind of new to crypto or wanting to get active in content creation or participation in the space whether it's governance or or you know working for a protocol you know where and what are like the highest roi things that somebody can do

to get started in crypto you know investment wise you know um you know time wise participation wise you know what what do you think comer could do you know to get the most um on their time yeah uh investment wise uh i remember i think robert leschner the founder of compound tweeted this and he's basically saying like pick two tokens projects whatever and get some skin in the game right invest a little bit and then spend a lot of time learning about them and you know if you if you like what you learn keep doing that right like keep investing and then just kind of spread out the two more every like three months or whatever it is i think people

try to most people men don't even use or learn what they're buying right now which you know i get it everybody's trying to make money but the way i think you really make money in the long run is if you actually use uh the protocols and actually learn about it so yeah that's definitely my advice everybody's going for the short-term gains gains but we all know this is a long-term gain so yeah that'll be my advice that's why i tell everybody not you know most people don't want to listen they're just like okay should i buy dogecoin or no that's that's what the answer usually is but yeah yeah definitely learn and use what you invest in for sure yeah i agree for sure um sweet man well this has been awesome

rob any closing thoughts from either buddy yeah yeah i agree chris uh you know kind of get it getting some skin in the game and then spreading out that's what's been super cool about kind of a lot being along for the ride for a few years now is you know we were able to get started and our you know first two that we learned about were bitcoin and ethereum and then you know clearly the the ecosystem just has branched off from there and learning along with it um i i really like your setup as far as a journal like kind of your diary through d5 and appreciate that yeah um you know it it it really just kind of documents the process and

you know as you learn people can just have a window into you know your life and and kind of the experiences that helped you get to the point that you you you know are at so yeah just you know keep doing you good stuff and uh i'm hoping there's some sort of solution here where we can all work together um i don't know what it is you know but uh just kind of feeling you know our way through the darkness ultimately i i think there's plenty of uh value still to be added to the ecosystem um and if we can align the the interests and the incentives in a way that would work you know that would be great so thanks for coming out man appreciate it yeah yeah thanks thanks for having me on and keep doing what you do man um

like i said in i think back in february uh when i was like deep in the rabbit hole still am i was listening to you guys podcast when you had um mark zeller the ave engineer so that was my first introduction to you guys and uh yeah i was surprised i kind of you know i hadn't been watching since so when you guys like messaged me i was like oh man i remember these guys and uh yeah keep doing what you're doing because people are watching and um yeah thanks for having me on yes sir