DeFi By Design EP#32: STOP PAYING GAS: Feeless L2 Swaps w/ DeGate

Transcript

welcome to d5 by design where we talk all things blockchain and cryptocurrency while striving to educate empower and enrich what's going on guys real quick break for the d5 by design podcast sponsors and a defy slate sponsors who make this all possible first we have ave a money market protocol that allows you to borrow and lend and leverage your assets to earn interest right so if you want to deposit some stable coins in there currently you can get three four five six eight percent apys on stable coins which else any bank in the world uh as far as we're concerned you can deposit uh any uh ethereum based asset that is listed there borrow against it you can borrow stable coins you can borrow other assets like ether wi-fi link even the ave token itself ave is

the go-to protocol for any sort of borrowing lending check it out at app.com the next one we have is access auxis is a new crypto wallet auxis.com you can store all of your crypto there they have quite a few options uh they're integrating new dex features soon um and allow you to have a non-custodial way to store your crypto safely off of centralized exchanges and also just not in a meta mask or in your own ledger a bit of extra security there next we have mcdex mcdex is a decentralized perpetual swap protocol basically allowing you to trade on leverage uh on the ethereum chain right they're coming out with v3 very soon at that time you're listening this might already be out they are super solid team um and they're pumping updates and

allowing you to trade decentralized perpetual swaps on eth link and a few others all on ethereum all decentralized so that is mcdex next video ramify ramify is a decentralized stablecoin it's an algorithmic stablecoin that is pegged to the purchasing power of commodities and then basically it measures what value one dollar buys in terms of a commodity index each week and then it provides you with essentially a store value that allows you to continuously evade inflation while maintaining you know a stable aspect as if it was a dollar and that is the ramify protocol check them out on twitter finally we have diversify it is an l2 decentralized exchange they allow you to basically trade in a gasless and feedless manner

big volumes whatever quantities you need it's almost like a centralized exchange on ethereum but you are the custodian they do not hold your coins as a centralized exchange would you have full control full power so really it's almost like centralized exchange capabilities on a decentralized exchange and that is diversified all those sponsors make this possible i know it's a lot to take in but thank you very much for listening and let's get back to it what's going on d5 slate this is robbie and this is another episode of d5 by design and we are super excited to welcome agni to the podcast agne is part of d gate crypto so she is working on

l2 bridges i'm sure everyone who's listening knows how extensive these gas fee issues are um it's definitely one of the biggest and most pressing issues on the world of d5 from everything to ethereum and why it gives light to some of these other l1 solutions so agni is working on l2 staking um and l2 bridges so we're gonna dive into what d gate is how she got into crypto and yeah we're we're gonna talk about everything l2 today so how's it going today agne thank you for inviting me to talk with you and it's really exciting to to be part of diva community at this stage and as you correctly said

you know we're all a bit tired of the gas fees and although the defy and and the taxes are developing rapidly we're waiting for the solutions to appear in the market and i'm very excited to be part of d-gate and and we are going to solve uh some of the problems and hopefully to change the mindset um of crypto community and of the mainstream people who perhaps haven't been using crypto yet about trading about trading cryptos about trading on layer one on trading on layer two uh so yes happy to be part of this and to explain more awesome we're gonna talk about there there's plenty of gas fee issues um and there's a bunch of

different solutions that are swirling out there uh to try and solve you know the high transaction fees on ethereum so one of those solutions um be actually before we get into that maybe you could give us a little bit of context about yourself um how you got into the blockchain space and why you chose uh this issue in particular to try to solve and defy sure so i joined crypto in around 2016 so which makes me um a kind of crypto native person i would say i think so um so i first discovered trading of cryptocurrencies actually and then i discovered the potential of blockchain technology

so in 216 it was really interesting to trade um i was trading in all these famous exchanges um later on there was an ico boom so we all have discovered the altcoins who produced massive gains but actually uh what i found very fascinating is the technology itself and having studied finance in england uh previously i was always obviously interested in the financial industry in trading and derivatives and so i thought that blockchain technology will really revolutionize all of the financial industry at some point when i started digging deeper into that and understood that blockchain or bitcoin actually it was created

when the lehman brothers collapsed in 2008 and it was created with the purpose of let's say enabling a system that would creating a system that would enable an exchange of data without the intermediaries and and that data was the financial data at that point so what i decided to do is to really get a proper education i studied masters of science degree in digital currencies at the university of nicosia so kudos to them we had amazing professors such as andreas antonopoulos and then later on there was really a crypto boom a blockchain boom i've

consulted a number of projects a number of vcs um even corporations that are interested in applying blockchain technology uh so yeah that was that was the beginning later on i worked at binance and rather recently i joined the gate which is a great team actually the team is comprised of one of the first ethereum ethereum evangelists in china and so i'm really excited about solving the problems and opening up the gates of the future together with this team that's awesome yeah and and you mentioned kind of um how you saw

the the possibilities of of uh ethereum and crypto and how they could impact uh the traditional finance world and for anyone who's who's unaware actually in in the first bitcoin block um you mentioned that it was right around the same time as lehman brothers collapsed it it contained a message in this first block and it said january 3rd 2009 that's when this this first bitcoin block was mined chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks um and you know i think it's really interesting that that message was encoded right into the bitcoin blockchain in the first block um and it it kind of paved the way for uh just the

the continuous impact on the banks and removing them as inter intermediaries and and really just revolutionary um revolutionizing the the financial system um you know what was initiated with with the bitcoin blockchain and has taken on a whole new reality right with ethereum and d5 and um how crypto continues to evolve so i think it's super interesting um i i'm also interested in in uh your time at binance and how that was and kind of what your takeaways were from um maybe working under cz i'm not sure what you know department you were in or what you were doing there but

um could you give us some more some more insight into kind of the operation over at binance um sure what i would say uh perhaps the biggest takeaway and the most important is that finance is extremely consumer-friendly and i think this is why they're winning in all let's see in all phases in all sides it's really very easy to use has all kind of interfaces and functionalities and i think this is the most important thing and i think also this is a niche and one of the most important things right now to develop in the dex um ecosystem because they're not super friendly and also layered too as well you know we have

issues of how to get there what is that it's uh not so complicated to use for people who who are crypto native but i would doubt that anybody from the street you know starting to treat crypto would understand or even trust something like a fox in your browser a meta mask so i think the biggest takeaway is to be consumer-friendly to understand uh what a consumer wants uh so a good team and the teams who are building right now projects and building protocols they have to understand that you know you don't have to give a consumer an engine you have to give him a steering wheel

and and then he can just ride his car so i think that minus was great at doing that and this is what we aim to do in d gate to really be extremely extremely consumer-friendly uh decentralized exchange on layer two and actually i believe that the team of d-gate is capable of doing that because they have created a wallet a multi-chain smart wallet called mikey and in using this wallet all the technicalities are hidden so it's really adopted you know for a simple user uh to understand it in its own in in their own terms yeah yeah there there can be so many complications um you know even for experienced crypto

users um there there's still failed transactions um kind of wasted gas in that sense and complexities you know when you're using a dex um maybe it's it's with a token that is relatively new and you put in the token address and and there could be two or three tokens with the same name um and you have to you know kind of determine you know which one is really the token that you're trying to swap for so even for an experienced crypto user there can be some complexities um which you know the the ecosystem can continue to flush out um newer and and better user experiences let's talk about you know clearly one of

one of the biggest issues right now and and what you're trying to solve which is the transaction fees on ethereum and and d5 um so for anyone who isn't isn't familiar um you know why are these gas fees so high right now and really what is layer two um you know how can a second layer maybe you know we can go into roll-ups or these different types of solutions um you know basically how can they solve the ethereum transaction fee issue right um so first of all um i think that not only the layer 2 well not i think

it is the case not only the layer 2 but ethereum 2.0 is also trying to solve those high transaction fees especially this upcoming proposal um eip 1559 uh perhaps they will solve the the gas um issues um it just became so congested really so turning into layer two is becoming a necessity uh for the traders it's it's really so congested because of the plethora of defy protocols that are using ethereum and as we know right now uh the gas fees are sort of a bidding bidding principle so the highest bidder gets his or hers transaction processed

which will probably be solved in the 15 5 9 proposal and so what is layer 2 um well let's imagine a chain and then we plug in another chain into that chain uh via a channel and so uh what we call layer two is the off chain and then the transactions are getting processed of that chain and when you wanna go back to the main chain to the layer one you can do that so layer two is set to solve those gas issues because once you're on layer two the gaskets are really minuscule i've seen it myself on a test nets and really what we're paying right now um i'm not sure what are the fees

uh the guests use today but you know it's not unusual to pay 30 or so so we paid uh 20 cents today when we were trying um certainly or twos so to um you know the sure so the the gas fees right now as you mentioned um are like an auction process and you have to kind of bid up your your gas view if you want that transaction to be confirmed in any you know relatively quick manner so the the transition to eip 1559 will kind of make that process more efficient so rather than making it an auction process

um it'll be uh kind of a base fee so the the system will actually determine the fee for you rather than you setting it um in what you think the uh you know the time period that you want to get approved is you know that that's kind of where we're going um but now we have these layer two solutions that um can possibly remedy these gas fees while they're still in that auction process and you mentioned an off chain layer right so um for those of you who are listening and not familiar with layer 2 you know we have we have a blockchain and that's where transactions are confirmed primarily on the ethereum blockchain

that that's the chain we're talking about um but then you know because of all the popularity of these applications on ethereum the network got very congested which meant that there's so many more transactions happening in a short amount of time and um this pushes the fees very high in order to solve um or not in not in order to solve but in order to get your transaction confirmed you must have to pay a very high fee um to to outbid the rest of the transactions getting pushed through the system and you know what layer two is now um adding kind of like an extra chain an

extra layer to this blockchain and if you know you want to pay these lower gas fees you do have to move your chain move your coins off chain onto the layer 2 and then ultimately you have to move them back on chain so maybe you can you know continue i didn't mean to interrupt you there but um if you know there's a special way that d gate does that or um just you know if that that kind of sums up how layer two moves coins on chain um or excuse me off chain onto the layer two and then back on chain um when you're ready to go back to the layer one sure um so to add to uh your point there are

a couple of of chain solutions as we know so there are roll-ups and there are side chains um indeed specifically we're using roll-ups we're exploring roll-up solutions and also vitalik buterin himself he said that the future of ethereum scaling is in roll-ups why is that is because of the security so um what's very important to understand is the network of effect of the theorem and the security that this network effect brings if we would be using side chains for scalability which actually some projects do use it serves specific purposes and the side chains they have their own consensus mechanism it's a totally

different state so it actually does not borrow the security features from layer 1 from the on chain but the roll-ups they roll up the transactions and they send them in certain uh period of time let's see within four hours or two hours or maybe faster within one hour and they send them off chain where all these transactions are being processed and then when it's finished you know or with some batch they're being sent back to l1 and rollups as a scalability for layer 2 they do actually borrow the intrinsic security features of ethereum and this is specifically why digit will be using rollups

so there are different troll ups as well for the listeners who know or don't know about this so there are optimistic roll-ups and there are zero knowledge roll-ups right now the main difference for the consumers or for the traders is that in optimistic roll-ups to get back from layer two back to layer one you have to wait seven days and this is in order to ensure the fraud proof mechanism it's in order to ensure that everything that happened in layer two uh was valid and so that's why we leave a time window for seven days which is actually quite a long period to wait for a trader to to get back on chain

whereas uh zero knowledge uh rollups uh they don't have this waiting time period but with zero knowledge rollups is a little bit more complicated because it's more difficult for them to be made evm compatible so ethereum virtual machine compatible whereas optimistic roll-ups can be adopted a little bit easier i'm sure that these are the issues that we're facing right now and the industry will develop the solutions but basically the main differences between optimistic and zika rollups is the waiting time and the way let's say you reach the finality of that so either this economic or cryptographic proof um in d gate we're exploring both

solutions uh optimistic and zika roll-ups right now we have launched a test net on arbitrum version 4 which is likely to to go as a mainnet and will be launching as a mainnet as well and so digit proposes a specific solution and in a way that it will be cheaper and faster to get on and off the bridge so it will be faster and cheaper to get from layer one to layer two and the same from layer two to layer one so even in the case of optimistic roll-ups there is no waiting time uh to get from layer two to layer one uh so this is the most important thing

yeah so so you you really went into some great detail there um and you know it it it sounds like um there's some important differences between optimistic and zero knowledge roll-ups um so basically you know roll-ups are taking these transactions batching them all up rolling them all up into one uh much larger transaction that that holds all these smaller ones these individual transactions and batches them up into one transaction that will go back onto the layer one and because you're you're summing all these transactions up and that happened off

chain it only costs a small amount of gas to put those that one big transaction back on layer one but the but the issue here is how can you be sure um or validate all of these all these transactions that were happening off-chain and you know you mentioned the two most popular ways to do this are either optimistic roll-ups which you know are are great because they're evm compatible they can be adopted easier more easily into ethereum but they take a seven day waiting period to get back to layer one whereas zero knowledge are a little bit more complex not necessarily evm compatible but there is no waiting period

so yeah i mean i mean that sounds really great um and it sounds you know d gate is experimenting with both which is really cool um so you know maybe we can get more into what d gate is and um you know how you guys are uh really fitting into the d5 ecosystem overall so um you know you mentioned that you're an l2 bridge but then uh you know what is what is this other stuff about arbitrarum and kind of what you guys enable on on your decentralized exchange sure um so in short digit is a layer to decentralized exchange

there are a couple of features that are very important and that differentiates us so first of all we are doubt centric protocol we are protocol for the community by the community and the the protocol is controlled by the home tower so the dg token holders they are part of the home dao and they're incentivized or they're rewarded purely by economical reward as the home dao gets all the economical revenue from the trading fees on the decks digit stands out in the market in a way that it provides layer 1 to layer 2 bridge as i mentioned previously the times for on and off ram

are much shorter and it costs cheaper to again to get on the layer 2 and to get back to this also what will differentiate this in our roadmap is fiat on and off ramps so the users will be able to get directly to layer two so avoiding the layer one completely and so we'll be doing that uh using the third party providers and be actually completely compliant uh in this in this area um another feature that we have um obviously dex is a is for trading so we're going to be a mixture of amm and order book trading

and we have some incentives for the traders to be used so some of the free trades will be free for the market makers um and so basically uh we're we're trying to be as little friction for traders as possible so to be the most liquid hub in layer two gotcha yeah and the most the most popular uh layered two that i'm familiar with right now is also decentralized exchange called loop ring um are you familiar with them and and maybe you could kind of highlight some important differences between your you know your your project d gate and and loopering um i think it will be difficult for me

to highlight the total differences but i understand that loop ring is a provider of their own uh of their own rollups by themselves so basically they're created the protocol and also they're using that so then they're not using arbitrary or optimism uh or they key thing as we will be using i think they went through a long uh research journey and it's great for them to be paving the way uh in the laterity ecosystem they're definitely very famous cool yeah yeah we uh did some content with them a little while ago that was um also around layer two and um i think a lot of it went over my head because i i

wasn't really sure um well layer two wasn't so so popular back then but um like you said they're doing something custom where it's not really any one of these solutions in particular but more kind of a blend of different solutions which which brings up kind of an interesting question is you know these layer twos are kind of like a band-aid fix for these gas solutions and um we talked a bit about eip-1559 how it will change that bidding process to more of a a more straightforward process that'll um you know tell users the base fee and

then if they want to expedite their transactions a little bit they can add a tip for the miners and then um they you know can add a huge tip um if they really want to see their transaction get verified very quickly or you know in most cases they they might not need to add a tip at all and it's just the base fee that's charged as gas so this kind of brings us closer and closer to eath 2.0 and the transition to proof of stake so to to provide some background uh for our listeners right now ethereum is still proof of work so they use a very similar process to bitcoin where uh there's miners

these computers are running and spending energy and in exchange for these computers running these algorithms and validating transactions ethereum miners are compensated with gas fees which are the transaction fees you know for each transaction as well as newly minted ethereum so the new ethereum coming into the circulating supply and this is what's known as proof of work it's what bitcoin uses and it's what ethereum uses right now but you know we we talked a bit about eth 2.0 and that will be a transition to proof of you know proof of stake just high level um

maybe you can provide some more context here is these large ethereum holders so i think right now it's it's a minimum of 32 ethereum and you put that in what's called a validator node and you lock it up for a certain amount of time and basically that um ethereum being locked up provides enough collateral or enough consensus to the rest of the ecosystem that you can use it to validate transactions um you know maybe you can share a bit more about eth 2.0 and did i get it right there on how the transition to proof-of-stake um is going to kind of be seen with these validator nodes

sure so i think that the theorem 2.0 is something that the community has been waiting for very strongly i can't maybe see it for a long time but for some it seemed that a long time because it was so necessary um right now i think we're in a beacon chain mode for those who know that and and the transition will happen potentially towards the end of the year and yes as you said ethereum is migrating from proof of work which was mining to proof of stake which is uh you know confirming the transactions based uh on a criteria that you are a node and right now as the 32 ethereum makes you

makes you a note and obviously the goal of that is to create a decentralized system so when we were mentioning about the bitcoin white paper in 208 it was to create um an economical economical system that would be able to function without one central point uh governing that so a theorem is very much decentralized it has a huge network effect and with this proof-of-stake mechanism um it should be unbreakable really what i believe and what the other in this industry let's say let's say participants say that ethereum will become ultrasound money i'm sure that you heard

of this concept so after the eip one five five nine and proof of stake it will become an ultrasound money in a way that it will become def deflationary right so um bitcoin bitcoin is a sound money because it it it still produces two percent uh of btc additions rate is two percent of btc whilst the theorem after all of these implementations and proof of stake will become a deflationary asset which means that it will be less and less of that and in all the economic terms we should be saving our money in ethereum we should be putting our money in ethereum because it

will grow in value over time right so not not just that um you know bitcoin is um algorithmically defined inflation right because it's just kind of uh decreasingly inflationary with the having and there's only a little bit you know still to be added every few years but ethereum will actually become deflationary where there's an amount taken out of the supply also what i would like to add is that after implementation of proof-of-stake ethereum will become a better and faster finality mechanism so that means that the finality will be reached uh in less blocks right so um

right now i don't know how many blocks you need to need to wait for the for the transaction to be confirmed i think it's uh 12 blocks or something so therefore the finality will come in three or four blocks which is around 20 seconds unit theorem so it will be great for the whole d5 ecosystem the transactions will be faster and also it will be great for layer two because you will be able to get to layer too much faster yeah so i guess that brings up a good point like you know when gas fees are much lower and transactions are confirmed much more quickly um what what's the relevance for for layer two yes uh well first of all uh so it will be good for layer two as i mentioned

uh because you'll be able to get there much faster but uh none of the last layer two will will change completely the the mindset of how things work it will change completely the trading i believe so it will be a fraction of of the gas phase you know we will never well i can't say never but it will be difficult to reach such an amount such a number of gas fees to be paid on layer one that you can achieve right now on layer two and also i don't see a point to congest the layer one completely i think we're in very early phases in general of the crypto world so layer one can function as the main economical provider and then other economical

functions can be provided by layer two such as speed you know interoperability between various layer 2 solutions and all the all the transactions can be made there and when you're finished you can go back and record what you have done or the remain of that on layered one yeah so um you know even though if 2.0 could dramatically drop the gas fees um it's still worthwhile to move over to layer two and execute your transactions there because you don't sacrifice any any security um and it takes those gas fees down even further yes exactly um and so also it will it will solve the problems for

dex as well maybe not a problem but the taxes are quite slow right now you know with with amms uh so the finality of transaction is much slower so when the daxes will move to layer two um i think there won't be any daxes left on layer one or perhaps a few and as we know the industry is moving towards towards that also uni swap has announced the layer two vision um which will be implemented soon as well as synthetics diy dx yeah so the industry moving towards that way awesome that that's great and um you know i know we're all excited for ethereum 2.0 to come out and

dramatically reduce these gas fees and you know also the remove a lot of the friction between uh layer one and layer two do you think um and we're getting close on time here so you know we can uh wrap up relatively soon um but i'm curious what you think about uh some of the other layer ones you know solana cardano polka dot um i guess solana is really kind of the uh you know in in second place right now in terms of um you know popularity but also uh potential to to take some market share away from ethereum do you think these other layer ones have any validity um

you know they don't have a lot of decentralized applications right now um not a ton of users but it's more you know kind of uh hedging your bet if you're you know rather rather than being all in on ethereum um it seems like these layer ones are just kind of uh maybe a short-term solution uh while ethereum doesn't have the gas fees sorted out um do you do you see any long-term future for these other layer ones specifically solana and polkadot um as you correctly said i i agree with your opinion short-term solutions being provided what i think is great is the innovation that is coming

with these short-term solutions perhaps not all the questions need to have answers right now but i'm sure in the future we will see what innovations different teams have brought to the ecosystem you know no doubt that it's very very useful to have polka dot interoperability um solutions that they are providing etc but what we have in ethereum is the strength of the theorem community um a theorem right now is where all the network effects are is where all the developers are it's a really truly decentralized community and also a theorem has a great value proposition

you know ethereum is that it is a consumable uh it is a capital asset is also a store of value and it's an economic bandwidth it guarantees that the transactions will happen and therefore um i think in the long term ethereum provides as i said great proposition security features and it works as an economic bandwidth broadening that yeah gotcha yeah um i'm still i'm still kind of going back and forth on on you know these these other layer ones um if you know there's just a complete transition from traditional finance over to

um a decentralized finance world you know there's gonna be there's gonna be so many transactions i'm not sure exactly how many transactions you know happen every second over in traditional finance but um i gotta believe it's in like the billions or trillions um you know with all the fast-paced um algorithmic trading that happens on the stock market um you know if all of that moves to decentralize a decentralized world maybe ethereum can't handle it all even with the reduced gas fees and that gives some some room for layer ones other layer ones to be successful and and like you said you know maybe it

doesn't take just a complete transition of of transactions um to ethereum but uh you know there's other innovations that are at work there um i know there's there's some projects on solana that are working on nfts specifically that um you know could could really move the industry forward and uh we might just see more specialized projects you know you mentioned the uh the community on ethereum being pretty much uh the best in crypto at this point um i think the segmented communities as a whole they tend to be a bit tribal but it seems like ethereum is a place where uh you know p people come and they they

actually uh are using the platform there's not much to use you know on bitcoin but it still has a good community and a lot of these other platforms um don't have a lot of utility maybe just yet so uh ethereum you know has it has a good community of of users that engage with their technology each and every day um so you know we might see some more specialized innovations come out of solana and polka dot um and ultimately you know we'll kind of time will tell uh where where those layer ones head because there's not there's not a lot on their platforms right now so yeah it's super cool um to see these other projects popping up and kind of

push ethereum forward um and just by the nature of competition kind of keep ethereum on its heels have has degate experimented with other layer ones at all or do you have do you have any planted uh actually we're really a theorem native um frankly one of the founders of d gate has translated the ethereum white paper into the chinese language um his name is binlo um so i don't know if he's a friend with vitalik if i could call it like this but for sure they have exchanged lots of deep insights about the current and the future state of the theorem

so we really do believe in ethereum and the future of that i do agree with you that when we take all the traditional finance world all the uh algorithms all the derivatives uh it's it's really a plethora of opportunities that opens up right now i think uh blockchain and crypto community have really touched upon base payments you know we understand how that works uh lending and borrowing has been really revamped uh with compound and other i'm monitoring closely how the derivatives market is is being developed because this is a it's a huge market in the traditional finance you know to

construct uh cdos abs and all of that all of those instruments that make so much money for the wall street yeah yeah yeah i mean you're right there there's new projects popping up exactly what you're talking about um like uh ruler protocol we were talking to them the other day and they're working on some fixed rate loans um you know which kind of directly translate to like a mortgage that that a bank would lend um and there they offer some options and and i think 88 mph is doing something with fixed rate loans as well um where you can take out certain options and then um it's more akin to like a call option

or a put option um because you know you can you can take different time periods on this on this fixed rate loan so yeah it's super cool to see what's happening in the derivative space um and just the more and more market share that decentralized finance is taking from traditional finance yes indeed um i would be interested to hear the take from one of these uh wall street guys to see i'm sure that they're trading because of the volatility of cryptos uh well of course if they can if they're allowed to um on institutional accounts if not that for sure trading on personal accounts but i would be keen to talk to the structure products guys you know what do

they think about the opportunities yeah that the d5 brings we we got to get one of those guys on the podcast like a guy from uh you know goldman sachs or merrill lynch or something have him on and just kind of pick his brain maybe he knows nothing about crypto i have a feeling you know each one of these big corporate banks they probably have like one guy or two guys that's known as that crypto guy and it's like he's like the insider on these banks maybe like uh you know infiltrating uh their products or something but yeah i have a feeling that it's starting to permeate through these bigger companies and and maybe they're starting to get worried a little bit or or maybe they uh they want to you know push the

innovation and and kind of adopt the technology even if it cannibalizes traditional finance um and that's that's a topic that we've talked about before is um kind of whether the the crypto economy is going to be um a revolution and if it's more of like a takeover of these banks or if it's a collaboration and it's something where traditional finance and decentralized finance work together what are your thoughts true um i think let's observe what happened uh with digital currencies in general people like oh no bitcoin is a no-go and look digital yuan digital dollar digital euro all these

conversations are happening i mean it is happening of course this is not in the same decentralized manner as it was presented in the early stages in 208 uh but in it is really innovation and blockchain is also an accounting innovation if you can call it this way it's just ledgers uh layers uh layer one layer two all of these solutions they're ledges representing a certain state so it's not some sort of a technology that wants to overtake and demolish everything it's just a natural evolution of that and we have to get used to this and the very simple thing of how people should should be getting started use

that is by opening digital wallets because we know from our experience that it's very easy to lose the private keys uh or forget a password um so we have to get accustomed to to the fourth industrial revolution to to the new life in the digital world yeah yeah the new life in the digital world well i i definitely think there's a there's a digital economy that that is coming to fruition um and you know like you mentioned it seems like a digital world is right around the corner um projects like decentraland where you can buy like digital digital land and uh you know the nft

craze really with digital art um happening and and lots of lots of artists starting to develop um unique collections and unique art pieces on on ethereum and part of this digital world so i it's super cool to see and um you know d-gate is right at the forefront of solving the important issues uh gas fees will will allow a lot more people to come on board and utilize the technology and experiment with it and just grow that network effect um because you know as more people utilize it and and really get their hands on the technology they they can see how great it is and and see the different use cases um so yeah i i think that's super cool and

and d gate is you know really solving the important problems in ethereum and decentralized finance um is there anything else you want to share it was awesome having you on the podcast um thank you very much was was good to talk here too i would like to yeah add to what you said um think it is trying to solve the problems that are imminent right now such as gas fees uh long waiting periods of time um in reality also our long term vision is to become a protocol of trading so to understand what we mean by protocol like you have smtp protocol for emails or you have http for internet we really want to make

trading as simple as frictionless and as mainstream as it as it would be a protocol really so that's our uh big goal yeah yeah super cool and and um that goes to say the the composability of these different projects on ethereum um you know if you're a protocol you can plug right into uh some of these other lending and borrowing protocols and um also you know some of the some of the more traditional protocols that are existing in in the finance world today uh i i think the fiat gateway that you mentioned is going to be a really important aspect because that just doesn't exist in crypto right now

a way to go from us dollars straight to layer two really never hit layer one at all and then be able to engage in in trading with very low gas fees in a decentralized way um so super cool stuff d-gate is definitely solving um you know the the important issues and and really just pushing crypto and ethereum further um which is awesome to see thank you very much for the kind words awesome well it was great having you on um i look forward to doing it again sometime thank you thank you very much thanks for listening to the d5i design podcast until next time d5 slate team

[Music]