DeFi By Design EP#30: Building Flexible Distributions & Incentives with GYSR V2

Transcript

welcome to d5 by design where we talk all things blockchain and cryptocurrency while striving to educate empower and enrich what's going on guys real quick break for the d5 by design podcast sponsors and a d5 slate sponsors who make this all possible first we have ave a money market protocol that allows you to borrow and lend and leverage your assets to earn interest right so if you want to deposit some stable coins in there currently you can get three four five six eight percent apys on stable coins which else any bank in the world uh as far as we're concerned you can deposit uh any uh ethereum based asset that is listed there borrow against it you can borrow stable coins you can borrow other assets like ether wi-fi link even the ave token itself ave is

the go-to protocol for any sort of borrowing lending check it out at app.ape.com the next one we have is access auxis is a new crypto wallet auxis.com you can store all of your crypto there uh they have quite a few options uh they're integrating new dex features soon um and allow you to have a non-custodial way to store your crypto safely off of centralized exchanges and also just not in a meta mask or in your own ledger a bit of extra security there next we have mcdex mcdex is a decentralized perpetual swap protocol basically allowing you to trade on leverage uh on the ethereum chain right they're coming out with v3 very soon at that time you're listening this might already be out they are super solid team um and they're pumping updates and allowing you to trade

decentralized perpetual swaps on ethe link and a few others all on ethereum all decentralized so that is mcdex next video ramify ramify is a decentralized stablecoin it's an algorithmic stablecoin that is pegged to the purchasing power of commodities and then basically it measures what value one dollar buys in terms of a commodity index each week and then it provides you with essentially a store value that allows you to continuously evade inflation while maintaining you know a stable aspect as if it was a dollar and that is the ramify protocol check them out on twitter finally we have diversify it is an l2 decentralized exchange they allow you to basically trade in a gasless and feedless manner big volumes whatever quantities you need

it's almost like a centralized exchange on ethereum but you are the custodian they do not hold your coins as a centralized exchange would you have full control full power so really it's almost like centralized exchange capabilities on a decentralized exchange and that is diversified all those sponsors make this possible i know it's a lot to take in but thank you very much for listening and let's get back to it welcome back ladies and gentlemen to the d5 by design podcast it is a happy pump day as the crypto djinns would call it i'm just kidding nobody calls it that uh please don't ever call it that i'm here today with robbie of course uh the og uh we are here today with geyser team

we got alex and ben and devin and we're gonna be talking all sorts of things token launches what's going on in the ido space how there's been a change of tokens and what's going on with geyser updates overall in the market kind of what what you can look for and see and participate in these token launches and all sorts of uh of these new primitives that we're able to build in d5 um there's a lot going on there there's a lot of nerves there's a lot of emotion um you know but we're excited to have a good conversation about actually creating and building um you know because in the bull market that kind of goes awry so i'm gonna pass it over to robbie how do you feel about the market today what's going on in rob's life yo yo yo i'm doing well

hope everyone else is having a great day yeah so the markets are looking about as green as the grass outside it is it is beautiful out here in florida it's uh it's just a great day to be out here so i don't want to take too much time i want to pass it over right to our guest of honor we got everyone from the geyser team here and i'm super hyped because this is a this is a protocol that takes projects in their infant stage and just helps them grow all the way into some of the just banging protocols that are on ethereum now so i'm super stoked to hear more about geyser and what they got going on i will pass it over to alex alex how you doing today man doing really well excited to be here with you guys uh excited for round two at least uh

with you guys uh always a pleasure always a pleasure um but uh yeah geyser team uh here myself devin and ben and uh we've been you know launched a couple months ago did a great podcast uh with d slate but now going into our v2 just kind of telling a larger story of where we're headed what's going on and how we're going to help kind of boost this community even further super super yeah so uh devin how are you doing today man i i know we're all excited for v2 we're going to get right into it and doing great thank you both for having us on very excited to share a little bit of what's coming and you know talk about how we think that's going to affect the ecosystem around us yeah yeah for sure so maybe you could just kind of give everyone a primer if they didn't hear

the last podcast you know what what is your role with geyser um and you know just real quick um you know what we got coming up for the future yeah so i'll start with a quick intro on my side um my name is devin one of the creators of geyser we launched back in october with our v1 and contacts wise we're currently marching towards the v2 launch which we'll talk more about in a bit my background is a little bit broad i've worked in various areas of tech across machine learning robotics autonomous driving and obviously with geyser working the d5 and blockchain space i think uh as far as you know interest in getting into defy and just decentralized computing we

really look at it as a new foundational technology that's going to have an effect on really every part of software and i t from here on out you know no matter where you're looking um in terms of industries in terms of technologies you're using or building today understanding how to do that in a decentralized way and understanding these core technologies are really going to be critical um just as a a new architectural layer yeah and that's being built every day in d5 as we speak and there's so much going on that it's tough to to keep track of but when i think of architectural layers and and kind of what's being built you know robbie hit on this earlier we're kind of in the

in the uh phase of being able to have projects be launched in this kind of permissionless manner right and that's super interesting to have this ability for y'all's protocol to have been launched in what in the last four or five months now boom fully fledged you know you didn't have to ask anybody there was no start up kind of uh i mean it's all a startup but what i'm getting at is there's there's very low barriers to entry should i say almost none right for anybody worldwide right so now that y'all are together and have put together um this protocol over the last few months you know you've been able to live out some of these architectural layers right live out this kind of vision of decentralization um and so where i'm going with this is

where is the future headed as far as the current landscape of these protocols being able to just like pop up right so i'm curious if you guys are in the camp of thinking that having a mental model for token launches and for uh protocols is going to be this new open source way using this d5 applications right i'm just curious kind of what your mental model is for this this idea of starting up a protocol now that you have been in this for about you know four or five months um kind of how do you feel it's going to change and and grow over the future hey guys i can probably take that so my name's ben i joined up with alex and devin

in probably november i think end of november to help build geyser and it's an interesting question because what dfi has been so far has been a lot of people who are very technical and kind of able to build in solidity um shipping projects and kind of forking each other to build other cool stuff and i think kind of two things come come to mind first uh there's gonna still be that open source nature of things um people are still gonna be able to build projects and not have too much of a barrier to entry but i do think it's gonna get professionalized a little bit so when you're talking about these sort of ido platforms i think there's gonna be a kind of ecosystem of projects a different range of them some of them maybe will be

kind of lower barrier entry you can still make stuff if you're a college kid but at the same time i think we're moving in the direction of like really professional shops building very technical protocols particularly on the finance side so it's kind of a both and question where there's going to be a that lower level people will still be able to build but professionally speaking i think it's going to develop into a much stronger industry in and of itself speaking about some of the options and platforms that are out there now in terms of idos you have polka starter solana is launching their version they got soul starter um and then obviously uniswap is you know very open very decentralized anyone can create a liquidity pool there couple questions what is the validity of

those kinds of platforms long term do they really bring significant value to the ecosystem and second um how does geyser fit into this ideo yeah i can't speak exactly for for alex and for devon but i'll give you my take i think for now um something like pokestarter is going to be helpful for certain platforms um to kind of launch on they'll naturally get a community there's there's a case for some projects to use them generally speaking i'm pretty bearish on that i think a lot of it is just them building kind of a community um and selling tokens into that community where we're looking at trying to have the longer play here ultimately so as geyser we're trying to create an open tool that anyone can use

so it's not like we're coaching you necessarily all the way through the whole process but we are offering a bunch of kind of key building blocks that people need to launch a project so if you look at something like soul starter it's a newer blockchain there's not as much activity there um it's going to be a helpful project to kind of create an ecosystem around solana but for ethereum i think the longer term play is we want to be a tool and a lot of the core teams the people that are really building lasting projects either are building stuff themselves or are using kind of big tools that we we hope to become one of those um to kind of execute their their vision so it's kind of for now they are effective i don't see in the long run

that them kind of lasting uh but alex and devin may have other takes here uh alex here um i ask myself a question whenever i jump into any venture whether it's a crypto venture or or uh you know a classic entrepreneurial endeavor uh and it's do i think this is going to exist in five years um and if you can answer yes to that question i think that there's uh there's possible value in the investment if the answer is a quick no then uh it's either a pump and dump squeeze scheme a a a you know get rich quick scheme or or maybe a quick flip but i really ask myself is there value enough to make this last for five years since when i looked at look at crypto uh you know as ben mentioned there are a lot of products that are kind of selling a token into

community there's a validation of a concept you know maybe it's tokens that uh are rebasing maybe it's tokens that are distributing funds to you know holders whatever what other kind of mechanic they're looking at these are all proof of concepts i'm never really super confident that that specific player is going to be the one that solves it for five years in the future but the way to look at geyser is i say to myself okay here's a tool that we've built that is necessity five ten fifty years in the future we're going to need without a doubt a way to distribute decentralized assets no matter what decentralized assets are a easy thing to create and a hard thing to distribute well and we're going to need platforms that enable that and so when i look at geyser

i say how do we position ourselves as a platform that enables that for the long-term future and so when you combine kind of that line of thinking that's where it's the differentiator between platforms and tools like the unit swaps the geysers of the world versus you know tokens that are simply kind of maybe trying a new mechanic getting people hyped up about them but they're not really seeing what do we know this is going to exist you know in in in some form uh going forward and so that's how i kind of limit between at least the things that i invest in and much more specifically the things that i actually want to build and invest my time in which is arguably the most valuable resource here gosh yeah and to provide a little bit of context here for anyone who's not familiar you might you might

be familiar with icos which is initial coin offerings and maybe not so much with ideos so the difference there is that a ideo is an initial dex offering it's a coin offered on a decentralized exchange where an ico is just offered to a maybe a public sailor or maybe a private sale um but it's an initial coin offering not necessarily on an exchange of any kind yeah like alex is saying there there's value here because decentralized assets um are you know part gonna be part of the future they already kind of part of the present and there needs to be a way to distribute those tokens into the people or the market that wants to consume them

so so that's where geyser's value proposition is right really on the token distribution side of things early stage projects that want to put their token into the community and rally people behind these value propositions so yeah and rob i think i think with the evolution of the icos to what we have now i think generally speaking it's a much better landscape for token launches i mean the icos were just an absolute show of a craze of a pre-sale pump and dumps just all over and so i think this maturity and sophistication of protocols launching tokens in a way that they want to give the community a large

amount or uh share of the of the equity if you want to think about it in that sense allows platforms like geyser and uniswap and others to basically flourish and have a position and a product market fit and so basically it allows you to have something that actually is like alex saying needed over time um you know i'm curious what you guys think uh it's off the top of your head uh what some of the biggest product market fits are in d5 right now like what do you think is you know like the top two okay this is needed for like the world on a broader scale i know we're kind of going off on a tangent here but i'm generally curious i think i say guys are first before that anything else i'm just going to mention geyser if you guys didn't

know this this this we are the geyser team this is we're talking about geyser but no uh absolutely we have a good idea so devin go for it so obviously alex's dancer but i think in terms of projects that have an immediate need first i think of our dexes uniswap those lend themselves perfectly to the technology where you know d5 gets the first focus as far as industry goes i think centralized applications will kind of uh overturn a lot of other industries eventually as well but for now focus on finance lending and trading those are two pretty easy wins yeah i agree i think a lot of those lending and borrowing protocols have more of a moat if you will around just like a general dex

um so those on the speculative and investment side seem to be appealing in a sense of oh this could be around in five years because chances are i can't just get forked and replaced um but let's bring it back to kind of the ido scene and what's going on there so um when a project is coming up to launch with one of these ideos right on you know and is that the term for when a project is launching on geyser or is there a different term that you all use um we don't use the the term ideo to me an ideo is just any kind of launching of a token using a dex so you'll see that periodically happen on balancer or uniswap where people would just list a token so like listed on uniswap um recently there was eluvium this

gaming platform by the the brothers of kane warwick who founded synthetics they did their ideo through through balancer but for us it's essentially we're kind of coming alongside people who may be doing an ideo but won't really name it as such so essentially we're saying like okay we're going to help you um accomplish some kind of goal in d5 often that's to provide liquidity on a decks like unit swap or sushi swap um and so people who come and use geyser ultimately are just using us as a tool for whatever goal they would like that could be an ideo in their marketing language um we're kind of a launch tool more than a launch platform maybe alex and devon would would argue with me on the language but

that's at least how i see it is it understood to like a kickstarter um to use kind of a traditional like funding route where people can come and get access to liquidity that's sourced amongst you know a bunch of different people in the community well alex you just did a kickstarter right yeah i i've i've both been in d5 and successfully on a kickstarter um i won't plug other separate non-d5 businesses here but uh but um uh you know i think that the the crowd sourcing mechanic of base liquidity is certainly one use case uh you know if you really think of what kickstarter is about crowdfunding interest in a product and oftentimes what people are looking for in a geyser is to crowdfund liquidity provision because if i'm a

token that wants to you know have an ido um i need to provide both sides of that pool right and provide my token but also the liquidity in the in the base token you oftentimes ether something for that ido uh and i might not have that right i know that certainly devon and i didn't have that at day one to have you know the ether to put a pool together but now i say hey community if you care about what i'm building if you care about the ecosystem we're trying to create be a part of supplying that liquidity and we're going to reward you for that in the token that we know that you believe in that's that's one kind of cyclical way that geyser can really be helpful is is incentivizing that action by the use by the by the community to be a part

of the crowd uh the crowd sourcing method i just wanted to mention mention though that geysers are as ben said not just about liquidity but also about really any sort of goal or incentive that a project has in the blockchain because we can really incentivize anything that can be tokenized if you can put a token somewhere to prove you're doing something geyser can reward you for it and a project can reward you for it um and so i think thinking a little more broadly you know ideos are our use case where we can be supplemental guys there's a supplemental tool uh and there are other ones as well i know devin did a great blog post a couple months ago about different ways that someone could use a geyser besides just you know creating liquidity on the exchange on that note alex um what's an example of a project who was

able to come in launch on geyser and incorporate some of these incentives um you know and see some working projects and success sure so i guess first off to talk a little bit about broadly what types of use cases or programs you see the most traditional one is certainly liquidity mining you have a project that wants to distribute tokens you know as we've just been talking about to meaningful participants in their ecosystem so we've had some very successful liquidity mining programs run on geyser notably vesper a project that launched in the last month or two they ran two different liquidity mining programs

on geyser one for sushi and one for uniswap and we saw a huge amount of success both in terms of um the participation the growth of their underlying liquidity pools and also the distribution of those rewards to the community members um one thing to mention as far as discovery goes this gets a little bit more into the v2 conversation we would urge anyone who wants to check out the projects that have launched on geyser to go to our discover page which is currently at discover.geiser.io you can see a list of all the projects that are currently running different geysers see what tokens they're incentivizing and rewarding

and it's a great way to find new projects and get a feel for who's actually adopting and who's actually using uh the overall platform um as far as some other use cases go that have been successful we've seen some interesting community mining programs um ben dropped a nice tweet thread about this maybe a month ago but you know a lot of a lot of projects they want to partner together and do some distribution of tokens to the holders or to liquidity providers for another project so you know the ability to quickly spin up a new incentive contract with the geyser platform allows those more creative models to be quickly rolled out and quickly experimented with and then finally uh just i guess one

other pattern to mention that we've seen launch recently is for nft rewards and nfg farming so this you know i won't go into too much detail because i think we talked about this a little bit in the last podcast actually but we have seen um some cool examples of projects rewarding a you know a made-up proxy token that's basically like your chuck e cheese ticket and then that gets used to redeem in a listed marketplace for nfts such as openc so that's a cool pattern where you can really easily use our current contracts to you know reward other types of tokens or digital assets super cool and you mentioned the v2 conversation so let's let's just transition right into it um

you know you hit on a lot of different use cases um and the flexibility of guys are something that that's really cool and and i'm sure he's gonna attract a lot more projects um so what's coming up in v2 i know we were talking beforehand you know the website is getting a whole makeover so that's gonna be cool is there more use cases that are that are coming to the table um yeah so go ahead and you know sure so i guess to start i i would break out the term v2 has really started to aggregate a huge number of different efforts and different features and upgrades so i want to break it out into probably three different categories first being core contracts you know there's there's a lot the lowest level of

on-chain computing that is changing and improving uh the next piece is web app and website if you've used the web app if you've gone to our website there's certainly a lot to be desired in terms of user experience and then the third one is more on the ecosystem side and allowing other projects and third parties to be better consumers of the underlying geyser technology so on the core contract side probably three to four major changes plus some um big efficiency improvements this is probably less exciting to someone who's not a developer but we've completely overhauled the architecture of the geyser contract to be much more extensible but still in a safe way

so you know i think a lot of times projects struggle with this dilemma between upgradability and agility and addressing and keeping up with this fast-moving pace or this fast-moving space but at the same time the whole point of decentralized computing is the security and trust guarantees you get so those two things can be very difficult to juggle and and we think we've taken a really nice approach at how to provide that extensibility but not upgradeability um and we'll cover that a lot more in an upcoming white paper that details the architecture but anyway that's to say we're really ready to go as far as supporting new types of incentives new types of mechanics um and continuing to upgrade

the geyser tech stack at a much faster pace and just to kind of bring them home a little bit here in terms of the feedback that we've gotten from the past couple of months um you know when we launched v1 there was a lot of questions about configurability right that's the thing that most products ask us for is can we do it this way can we do it that way and our answers were well you can configure this you can figure that out but you can't change that fact about this and i think that when we went into v2 the big question was how do we offer up a lot more configurability and also configurability that covers things we don't even know people want yet right like we know what people have asked us for in the past six months but for all we know we've got d5 we've got

nfts there'll be something new a year from now we haven't even thought of that we want to be able to support and our new v2 system allows us to literally without changing any of the security of the previous contracts or any security previous geysers actually add on what we call modules these new geyser modules that you can customize have different configurability and different kinds of mechanics that will help us support other different use cases in the future kind of like slapping a little game boy cartridge into into you know your single game boy and getting an absolutely totally different experience that's what you know devon has really been at the core of of developing and i want to give him a huge kudos piece as the person who comes back and and assists where i can and reviews code as

a second set of eyes it is one of the most elegant um smart contract configurations i've ever seen it's absolutely amazing um it is not just one single file you read through an ether scan you're like oh there's five function here it is really bringing solidity development to another level with the work done uh and so a lot a lot of product what the team's doing internally to enable uh v2 but really a huge huge leap in configurable d5 not just static stuff that you can't change without kind of okay everyone let's draw your stakes we're moving to a new pool now you know that's not really what we're looking for here we're looking for a lot more extensibility yeah and you know i i thought v1 was flexible um but uh no it sounds like you guys are

really just making strides in um the versatility of geyser and what what you guys are bringing to the table because you know at the end of the day you don't really know what's coming down next um and i know devin mentioned how fast-paced the uh the industry is moving um you kind of have to roll with the punches you have to think about um well you know we're not even going to be able to predict what's coming up next uh but you want to give people the the ability to use geyser with that uh the first step in all of this is a technology that we're calling a fountain um which is our first additional module on top of you know the original geysers um as some of you may know and so this might be the first time hearing

when you're staking in a geyser you can actually send geyser token to multiply your rewards at the cost of other people's rewards it's a very competitive system that takes a an investor a lot of kind of forethought into the right timing and the right strategy for staking and unstaking to maximize rewards well one thing we've heard from a lot of projects is hey we appreciate the competitive nature of this but some of our users are looking for a more friendly version of this that's a little more senate and forget it right and so we see other staking contracts and since that synthetic wants synthetics one that's been copied you know every which way uh that we thought were you know interesting and validated that concept of uh of you know friendly staking if

you will and we've uh basically added this new module fountains as our first additional module that allows friendly staking but also some really cool mechanics about how you can use geyser to still increase your rewards without affecting other people and that's a pretty cool thing that we're actually with every module increasing the scope of value of the geyser token um i'm not here to show the the price of geyser etc all i'm saying is that we want to make sure that anyone who is holding it or wants to use it that has maximum utility in the staking and unstaking space in the uniforming space um and i think that you know one goal that we have is to just say how else can we make this interesting for people um because we don't see geysers as kind of a non-utility et cetera

it really is a fuel for a whole system and that system is really just being born with this with these new additions it almost sounds like uh you know i know ethan ethan's money has kind of taken the narrative over but uh i remember when the narrative was ethan's oil and it sounds like geyser is like just the wells of oil beneath the earth and uh you gotta use your eat to like dig that hole and uh start piping oil you know out of the geysers yeah i think one very intentional design decision we made was to launch and use geyser as a utility token first a lot of projects they look at you know how do we launch a token that accrues

value and that you hold and that people want to sit in their pockets and have some crazy economic system around to you know game basically game the economics of it you have whole roles in projects that are dedicated to tokenomics for that for that reason uh we try to really approach this from a pure use this geyser token as a way to exchange value and really be the medium of a medium of value flow between the end user and you know the projects both between you know those two parties and then also across the entire geyser platform that's really the way we're coming at this it's a very composable project

because you have vertical integration as well as horizontal integration um you're bringing together a lot of different projects into one common ecosystem but then you're giving those projects multiple layers of value through the geyser protocol um which is super cool and you know certainly adds to the value proposition that geyser brings as a whole um there's just something else to think about as a good example for how this is working um so if we have geyser and it is becoming this ecosystem like you're saying kind of a center of gravity for all those different projects that we can visit if you're an investor you know you can just go there and you see a bunch of activity on all these different kind of projects that are using us one just kind of example that's worth exploring for people who may not be familiar with the product or maybe who aren't

developers or or whatever um it's important just to kind of game it out once so if we you know alex mentioned vesper um vesper finance is kind of a smart yield product similar to iron where you can deposit your funds and it kind of puts that a capital into a strategy and then you earn some money without having to kind of babysit your money um and what they did is they took their vesper token um they launched it and they said okay we need to create some liquidity on these two major exchanges right sushi spot beauty swap we're gonna use geyser right so we had some great chats with their team they're super smart and they said okay we actually believe in you we're gonna try this out and so they put together a one-year program essentially for their liquidity mining using geyser

and this is to devin's point about a utility token being kind of our main goal right at the beginning um you have you know vesper creates their geysers people are really excited about that they're really interested in getting more vsp so they stake and unstake quite frequently in this competitive kind of environment where they're just trying to maximize their vsp get as much as they can in terms of rewards but in doing that them as a development team they actually get all of that geyser it's sent to them right so if you robbie go out there you stake some of their uniswap lps into the vesper geyser and you unstake right you're going to get a bunch of rewards you're then sending that geyser to their team because their treasury address deployed the geyser and what happens is they are then stacking a

whole bunch of gysr tokens right so not only do they get the upside of actually deploying a geyser and having this whole incentive mechanism work for them because liquidity is going up in both sushi swap and unit swap they also get an income stream right they're also getting geyser tokens which they can then use to just fund their project um and so they had something like i want to say in the first six weeks of using our product they had about 500k u.s worth of geyser tokens just flow straight into their treasury so they were able to do a bunch of other stuff with that so it's kind of like this is the utility that we're bringing and that's just the first project that's really worked with us at scale so it's exciting to see where it could go so let's go over that example one more

time we're approaching this from the from the use case of liquidity mining right and these liquidity providers are getting paid out in guys or tokens so if i'm developing a new project and i need funding you know in my treasury and i'm thinking about launching a a liquidity pool soon so you know if you're a developer and you're thinking about new project listen up if you've been sleeping now's the time to listen so i can i can come to geyser and i can launch my token essentially on geyser let's say you know i bring a million of my tokens and these uh community participants that are part of geyser's

ecosystem can provide their liquidity and basically fund these tokens and get paid out in geyser why don't we do that why don't we do this let's say defy slate is starting a token because you guys are doing so well that you just start the defy slate token okay so come up there's you know a million defy slate tokens and you you just want to share this with the world what you're going to do is you're going to come over to geyser and you're going to say okay well we want people to have liquidity on uniswap to trade this defy slate token right so we're going to start a one-year geyser that's going to offer a bunch of defect slate token rewards um alex devon and i are really bullish about deep slate so we're like okay we're definitely going to get in on this

farming this liquidity mining process we're going to buy some defy slate tokens take ether stake that to unit swap because let's say that your geyser was targeting unit swap liquidity um and then we're going to take these liquidity provider tokens stake them into this new device late geyser and be rewarded with more defy slate tokens so it's actually you guys setting aside a reward amount that you're going to reward people for doing this action which is providing liquidity on unit swap so that people can maybe trade your token for example now in addition to that we're going to unstake maybe frequently to get as much kind of rewards for of of this deficient token as we can and in doing so we're going to send some gysr into your treasury account

essentially because it's your wallet that deployed this device like geyser and so you you walk away with two wins the first win is there's now a huge amount of liquidity on unispot for your defy slate token and you're also getting a bunch of gysr into your treasury basically because people are interested in staking and unstaking to maximize their rewards so if you have a project and you essentially want to a accomplish some goal i.e probably providing liquidity or getting people to do that on your behalf and b get additional funding um you would basically consider using us uh early in your uh your process and i wanna just add something else that i think is so so critical to this which is that um you know again vesper

does the tune of half a million dollars right that's an amazing amount for any project that's salaries for a year for a whole team to keep on working on the stuff as well as audits marketing etc but even more importantly vesper did not have to sell their own token to continue funding their project the project creators no longer have to dump their token to keep things moving instead they can basically use geyser that they're accruing for this program people are happily giving them to maximize their rewards in an effort to to to fund their project so instead of seeing projects basically hurt their community every time they try to help their community right we want to spend some money to get more devs or to get marketing but to

do so we've got to lower the price of our token by dumping a bunch of the community no more of that right you can come into a geyser we've seen that plenty right there are so many tokens that as soon as they launch on uniswap there's very low liquidity but the price is very high because the pool just launched and the devs or you know whoever owns the token maybe it's vcs want to dump because the price is high and they know it's not going to last right and they slip the price all the way down exactly and so that slippage you know is caused by oftentimes by the large scale holders which many times are the team and you know i know i know that you know investors case instead of selling half a million dollars worth of vesper which for any project besides the huge

huge huge massive ones would absolutely change the price of the token instead they're selling geyser which is exactly what it's built for it's built to be that buffer to help people get that funding and so i think there's a lot of trust built with a project that uses geyser because they have the confidence that that product has less incentive to dump on right because they're having other methods of funding that guy's just providing um yeah yeah it's genius and on the on the dawn of the launch there's automatically an incentive mechanism for token holders of say in this case vsp to rather than sell if they have a large pre-allocation or some or some sort of um allocation they can then come to geyser and stake

and earn yield rather than having to sell i mean it's you know you don't have to sell all because you can earn a good amount of you i mean i was looking at the ap was earlier there's some in the above 500 percent or some you know 100 200 so between that incentive mechanism and the funding i mean it i kind of am starting to really wrap my head around why this idea of rather than building a i don't want to say a one-off gig but a tool the the word tool describes geyser very very well it's very utilitarian and i almost want to say altruistic in a sense of the greater ecosystem now i know you two little guys and ben and you guys aren't aren't small but you guys are trying to get your little paychecks i mean so are we over here right

but end of the day this is almost a utilitarian altruistic uh tool it's um yeah it's awesome once that light bulb flicks i mean it makes it makes you wonder why projects aren't you know rapidly coming um now to follow up on that uh are projects able to deploy these lm schemes or liquidity mining schemes and programs with y'all after they already have launched like can you know somebody else who's already had a token can they come and you know get their scheme say after six months of being active on geyser or do you guys strictly focus on new projects so there is really no barrier to entry for anyone if you have a community member whale who

has a you know interest in incentivizing something they can take their supply and set up a geyser so that there's you know in the spirit like you said this is an open platform this is not something that we're controlling by any means this is uh anyone can go and launch a geyser there's no fee to launch one you you pay gas to create those contracts now you own it and you can fund whatever you know whatever funds you happen to have that could even beyond your own project token it could be eth if you just wanted to incentivize some action with a stable coin we actually saw someone do that fairly recently sweet so it doesn't have to just be new projects that's awesome yeah i mean a lot of projects have are trying to figure out how to basically get

more liquidity and it's oftentimes okay let's launch a liquidity mining scheme um kind of on the broad scale here of the longevity of say a platform and a token like vsp you know how do you guys feel about these liquidity mining schemes as a long-term mechanism of growth um and sustainability in d5 for a lot of protocols um you know and then we can get to the contrary of not doing them um you know but i'm curious what you guys think about the the sustainability and the idea of liquidity mining in the shorter you know and and midterm to accomplish a goal but then obviously over like the longer term i mean i think that i go back to what i said earlier which was this question around do i believe it will and should exist in five years um

and i think that if the protocol the technology islam that matches that's uh that requirement then this is a great way to uh offer that distribution on whatever timeline it is like hypothetically the problem that products are running into is we made this token it has no value because no one has it no one's able to use it for anything so our goal is to get it out to people once it's out if we've built a good enough system to maintain its use that's not predicated on just people trading it up and down but actually some sort of real use which is where again that five-year rule really comes into play there's no there's absolutely no reason why this shouldn't be the method through which people distribute a fair launch right so so an example might be i have a token that um becomes the absolute way through which

we facilitate um you know the trading of of cows in the real world we you know we tokenize cows and we trade cows and that's that's what it is cow token um you know if there's going to be a market that requires cow token and we believe that to be true in this example five years from now uh i need to get my cow token out to out to the communities and i do that over the next year i do it fairly because i don't want someone who comes in four months from now it's not an opportunity to use my technology i want a fair launch over the course of a year i don't need to look literally mine for the next 40 years i just need to make sure that my token which facilitates the network is out in the world in such a way that you

can start to use it in the ecosystem and then five years from now yeah there might not be a reason to provide that much liquidity besides maybe unisoc fees or something like else something else like that but at that point the tokens found its home in its use case or it hasn't and it's not really dependent on liquidity mine anymore it's dependent on cows are they being born do you need to trade them um so that's kind of my my take is uh if the technology is going to exist liquidity mining isn't going to be the reason it does or doesn't it really has to be what's the utility after that and i think a good example of that is ave they no longer do any liquidity mining for their token but the but the protocol exists is growing massively every day right and i mean i think that yeah i

think that concept of inflationary to start kind of you know for a fair launch over x period of time and then reward those who were with you in that inflationary period and who gave you liquidity by kind of slowing them down and making it more of a deflationary uh kind of mechanism while having the protocol be fully fledged usable and you know a tool like geysers you know yeah i think that's good for sustainability uh the question becomes incentives um you know we can we can touch deeper on that but rob it looks like you have a point to make well yeah i think there there's just a uh a visualization that can help us picture kind of what that what that growth schematic looks like that growth

trajectory um you want to you know if you're an early stage project you want to hit that inflection point where growth rapidly raises um you bring in community you have a lot of people rally around your token or your project and then uh there's a lot of adoption that takes place and you you build on that network effect eventually you hit the top of that s curve um and that doesn't necessarily mean that you want you know growth to fall and you start devolving but you just want to maintain and maybe you hit kind of that that peak of your trajectory but you don't want it to fall off um so you kind of hit that deflationary cycle you want to slow everything down and then all of a sudden it's just about maintaining that point where you're already at until maybe things subside a little bit you can find

new use cases and then you know start to grow again and hit more inflection points a couple quick points um i think you're all right on the the whole idea really with any incentive program is hitting that critical mass i think any well-designed protocol is you know by design going to be self-sustaining once it's there and once there's volume and true usage so really any good distribution program should just be the on-ramp and should get you to the point where there's true utility true usage and the protocol is working the same way it was described in the original white paper for example in our case our distribution is basically in three phases of the core geyser token we had an initial three month uh

higher rate of distribution which is a third of the total supply or at least from the community geyser then a one year period and a four year period so exactly how you're describing we're slowly slowing emissions you know as the token starts to gain more and more utility um and i think that in the future one thing that was just mentioned actually adoption changes it can happen at a very different piece across projects and one really interesting set of designs or mechanisms that people should look out for is more adaptive approaches now if you wanted to instead of pinning a distribution rate to a fixed schedule over a period of time and a number of tokens you could pin it to let's say the price on a uniswop exchange you could pin it

to some governed vote where the community decides if people are doing well there are some interesting approaches recently launched on or based on kpis and adaptive rates according to that you could even do a fixed apy we actually had someone really recently do that by hand using a geyser where as the number of users grew and the staked amount grew and the apy dropped that he said okay we're gonna add another layer of funding to reward the community so those kind of adaptive approaches can really help with stability in aligning the value that's being distributed with the value of the current participation so that i think that's a really cool new area that's going to be upcoming yeah most definitely those those fixed rates um are something in d5 that is kind of new

and a primitive that's been all around forever in traditional finance but it's kind of coming aboard uh i think it's gonna be huge to be able to understand this is exactly what i'm gonna get over this period of time i'm i'm absolutely waiting for devon to call me at 4 30 in the morning one day and be like hey man so i was up all night and i've got the fixed apy thing working it's a new module if you want to launch it tomorrow and i would be like let's let's slow down let's get an audit together let's get this all put together uh but holy that's just a very very casual devin thing to do um so i'm just waiting for that day i'll be very very quiet i think you're being too generous that's though so what's the incentive for for a person to

hold uh the geyser token right now and either provide liquidity on uniswap or you know be a part of the ecosystem i know that we've covered so many aspects of it um and we're not asking you to you know show your bags here but you know why should i own geyser and why should i stake it and risk impermanent loss sure um that's that's one i just want to macro over here for a moment and kind of a cultural choice that geysers made is that we you'll never hear anyone on the core team talk about price the token um and what we believe it will be we are here to give investment advice we're here to build a tool that's what that and i started with that's what we kind of stand by um but you know from my perspective uh geyser has a utility and we want people

to be able to use that utility at a reasonable cost and so um we believe that uh in the run-ups so large announcements v2s etc that the market uh you know has has bullish tendencies towards new technologies new developments et cetera and so from the perspective of an investor right now or really someone who wants the utility of the token more importantly having the cheaper prices hypothetically is it's limits that's valuable to do um when you can we have a chance i think that v2 most importantly token aside is going to bring more products to our plate we know the projects had requests for configurability that we're offering v2 when we unlock those capabilities we imagine that more products are going to launch on geyser when people hear

this podcast and hear about tweets that are going out uh they're going to you know be saying oh crap look at vesper's success look at you know space chain looking geyser alone we launched ourselves on our own platform look at our success um you know uh and then uh and then say we should launch on there and i think that as a discover page that that devon mentioned earlier uh grows and grows and grows uh it's going to be uh more and more valuable to hold that guy just hoping so you get more value out um i'll say the last thing here now the discover page is live it's kind of a teaser of v2 um and when you see v2 you're going to be amazed with the with the capabilities we have for actually kind of searching for new projects finding interesting investments

searching by apy etc all these different capabilities um you're going to wake up every day and look at geyser and say what are the good investments for today where can i put my capital to earn on it right now and uh and when that happens when that shift happens believe me it's going to be worth it to have some geyser because you're right that's that's the way you maximize usage of platform yeah we we hit on technology a lot during this podcast and and just you know alex as you were talking now it we started to get into the community aspect of guys or token holders and now what they're able to do with with their geyser and making it um just easier to find new projects and new investments um as well as as uh the composability and the flexibility

is now going to bring in that developer community of people that you know want to develop and launch their projects on geyser so yeah i mean we we covered it all from technology to community here um i i mean is there anything else you guys want to put out there in terms of v2 or yeah updates what the future looks like q3 q4 kind of what you guys are aiming to get done sure so so quickly we got into such a good discussion there actually didn't finish the quick overview on what's coming in v2 so we talked a lot about the core contracts in core tech there um the second thing i want to mention is a complete redesign and rebuild of the web app our focus was definitely on the core

tech at that first round and the web app needs a lot of love um big shout out to ian our lead developer on both the web app and subcraft side who's been crushing it recently um so look out for that the discover page as alex mentioned it's a little preview the entire flow plus a lot more is going to uh basically be launched along with these new contracts so and one other thing to mention is a little teaser we are adding mobile support not something that i knew was important at all before we launched geyser and apparently there are a huge number of mobile default users out there so that's coming um and then on the ecosystem side there's some really key improvements that help with that discoverability

um exactly the you know the habit forming that alex is mentioning where you wake up in the morning and you check hey any new geysers launch um we're out in the ability for projects to uh add a little bit of description and color around who they are how to learn more give me some info on what this incentive program is what does your core tech even do so we're adding some abil ability to index that information and present it on our website and then also on the also on the community side we are rolling out that profit sharing program which we mentioned earlier which is going to do a lot as far as bringing people together seeing a common benefit

from the usage of the platform at a high level and also gives us the ability in the future to start doing things like grant programs or you have a governed you know amount of money coming from the treasury to help new projects get started so from the community perspective v2 this kind of sets the foundation and enables a lot to as far as ecosystem growth goes yeah well i guess one question that came to mind is these developers looking maybe they're considering geyser for their token distribution what's the timeline of it all is there a stage of a project when it's too early to launch a geyser um you know it seems like there's plenty of value added even after token launches um you know but but when is the best time to launch a geyser during

a new project it's a great question every team that i've spoken to when they're building the technology they're asking themselves how are we launching like what's what's going on with day one the contract goes up initial supply he lands on our wallet what next and i think it's a it's it's a that planning phase that you should be thinking forward towards the new project saying the guys are going to launch on day one but planning for it is a really valuable thing to say you know what we believe liquidity is going to be one of the things we're focused on or this incentive is that we only focus on let's maintain some some token share for ourselves to then distribute through a geyser sorry not to not maintain tokenship rather maintain some liquidity of our own token to actually fund the guys are with and for tokens that have already

launched maybe haven't found success in building a lot of equity or hype this is one avenue to look into right it's like hey let's try different solutions to to this problem that we're having around uh building incentives let's try and put some funds towards guide guys and see if we can draw some some excitement i can certainly say that guys are enthusiasts people that are in our you know discord and telegram chatting they're looking at the discover page they're trying to find more ways to get to make money to find new products that are interesting that is their goal it's like it's a win-win for both sides right you've got a community to tap into and there's the network effect right as we get further and as we get more geysers on let's just say this project cow token that launches on on geyser um

every cow token user now knows about geyser knows about the discard page and is looking for other opportunities so as a new token you're tapping into other tokens like basically community building and you're leveraging their masses and so every single time there's new guys there's another community that's aware of it another people look at discover page more eyes on your project twitter is so so hard to get through the noise right um discord is so hard to build your discord uh chat to actually get people in there and engaging if you can find your way onto that that geyser discover page the first or second page in some sort of search ability high apy high staked amount high reward amount you better bet people are going to come in there and say

i want to learn more about this token i want to get some stuff guys hell yeah to crowdsource your community that's right that's a good way to put it and and a good explainer for kind of what's the what's to come i mean i think i i think there's quite a few early stage projects that i would say that have launched in the d5 winter if you will that um are probably going through a similar kind of vibe right now of like uh man like we we either got to figure this out like hype and liquidity and product market fit wise um or we we gotta think of something else you know and so i'm i'm trying to think of a few projects off top off top of of my head and i mean the one that that i thought of was swerve the the

curve fork um they're probably in a in a position of like all right our multi-sig signers probably don't care anymore our community is kind of over it not to say that it would be an ideal launch on geyser but you know i think i think there's a there's an element of of a revival of projects of a certain sort that that in addition to the initial launch uh could really be helpful uh using the the geyser tool but you know overall guys i really appreciate you guys coming on this has been absolutely amazing rob uh great questions great answers team ben was amazing um yeah guys check out geyser.io um you guys are building you know a tool you know a tool that it can be

used and uh tools are uh not found very aplenty in d5 massive amounts of utility yes it's not it's not the buy and hold it's not the set it and forget it although you know it sounds like v2 that that might be coming but um it's a place where you can maximize your opportunity if you really dig in and start to discover the projects on geyser super super interesting stuff yeah thank you so much for having us in one last closing thought for anyone who's listened to both podcasts alex's key example on the last round was fish token and this time he seems fairly fixated on cow token so if anyone's looking for an inkling of

you know alex's big next d5 venture tokenized animals you heard it here first you know i was hoping that you wouldn't pick up on that devin um because now all my secrets are out in the wild in the wild in the wild national netgeo token is my next thing and uh cows fish reptiles you name it we're tokenizing it wow launch the launch on geyser though don't you lost on geysers here we go alex alex corn is starting to sound a lot like charles darwin the evolution of d5 all right it was a pleasure thank you guys for coming so much for having us

thanks for listening to the d5i design podcast until next time defy slate team