DeFi By Design EP#20: 2021, The Year Of The Stablecoin?

Transcript

welcome to d5 by design where we talk all things blockchain and cryptocurrency while striving to educate empower and enrich what's up guys it's boy andy real quick just want to tell you about the sponsors that make the d5 by design podcast possible first we have ave ava is a non-custodial money market protocol where you can go and leverage your assets and earn interest so you can go in there and deposit about 10 or 20 assets eth any stable coins rap bitcoin a whole bunch link and you can lend them and you can borrow tokens to go long to go short to earn interest head over to app.ava.com check it out they have v2 is coming soon check out ave next we have diversify

diversify is a layer 2 gasless decentralized exchange on ethereum they use starkware to conduct their trades on layer 2 the token neck nec has a liquidity mining scheme ongoing and they have a bunch of cool stuff coming in so if you want to trade on l2 in order books not just swaps uh check out diversify they're awesome with that being said let's get right back to the show i hope you guys enjoy and again check out ave app.avid.com and diversify diversify.com to lend and borrow and trade on l2 cheers guys what's going on guys welcome back after the holidays to the d5 by design podcast 2020 has been a crazy year because we've

actually accomplished so many things that are we are trying to do in the space of crypto and d5 as young men as people who want to see the world do better be better and enjoy life we are trying to grow uh this defy ecosystem right and you know all these podcasts have lead up it's been a good you know six months now of what we've been doing and what's been going on in d5 has been lasting i mean years now um and now we're at an interesting point where we're having protocols be developed that are algorithmic based i mean really little incentives other than algorithmic incentives that create people and create a market and they create ideas that happen and we are talking

with ramify today ramify is a commodity indexed stable coin which is based off of purchasing power of different assets and commodities we'll touch way more to that we're with kyle squared and boy i am out of breath i'm with robbie as usual and two cows from the ramify protocol welcome back guys uh 2020's been great what's up rob what is going on guys super excited to have ramify on today like andy said 2020 was a crazy year um and it didn't slow down towards the end we had some crazy uh market action we had just bitcoin all-time highs ethereum's running up so the prices are looking good and the community is just building and building and building i believe this is going to be posted

the first podcast of the new year so we have a new year we have a new stable coin up into the market so i'm super excited to talk to kyle and kyle today um and get after ramify uh kyle f how are you doing man uh everything feeling good early or no i gotta i guess i got a nice new year's gift with uh these markets they're treating me really well you know i had a good christmas got a lot of like nice presents and then i woke up the next day and you know things are just like things are amazing i'm having a great time awesome kyle kay how you feeling man great just over here in texas and i wish it was a little bit colder

but other than that the markets are doing great i mean you got chain link up like 10 which is the majority of my holdings but uh yeah other than that i'm doing pretty good awesome yeah so why don't you guys give us a quick uh elevator pitch um quick intro into what ramify is um you know how do you guys get started how did you meet and what really led you into uh three or four months ago when i might have been might have been kyle that showed it to me but uh it came across ample for uh supply-based mechanism and at the time i thought it was it was genius you have names in stable coins you have

usdc um even die you know those are all great stable points for their time but major fallback is the fact that you have to over collateralize ethereum with it so it's not a really it's a fun thing for for now but it's not really a viable long-term thing and then you have usdt and usdc which are backed one to one uh well at least supposedly and that's also not an extremely scalable solution for every you know dollar you get to the ecosystem you have to actually acquire another uh us dollar whereas it really speaks to the d5 narrative of as people collectively believe this is worth a

dollar which is what money is then the ecosystem can grow to trillions of dollars without needing to interact with the legacy fiat system the only drawback that i saw with ample fourth was the fact that at the end of the day it was pecked to a dollar granted it's being buffered by a peg to the consumer price index but still whenever the us decides to say print four trillion dollars on some level they're also printing a bunch of ample forth and our decentralized ecosystem is is still tied to that that legacy monetary system so um i came up with the idea to instead of basing it on the dollar using the dollar

as an on-ramp but scaling it down with the growth of the the real world you know wood gold oil cotton beans whatever you know what what can our money buy today and how can we snapshot that purchasing power you know in perpetuity so you know in 10 years when the dollar is worth you know 60 cents or whatever from what it is today the uh the ram token will still be worth you know a dollar but uh at the time it'll probably be you know 225 or something like that it's just about from uh you know quantitative easing and moving us

towards an actual decentralized unit of transfer between ourselves being able to enter and exit the market so that's the idea that's how it came about and that's what we're hoping to accomplish awesome yeah so for the folks that just listened to that head spin which was absolutely just a concept idea of the dollar and what even a dollar is and then how can we create a better dollar it is just an insane thought so for the rest of this conversation let's continue to kind of keep that concept in our minds like okay we are almost trying to create a better form of one dollar or of a unit of measure of money and it's kind of it's crazy to

even think about um that's even possible but thank you for that intro kyle that was awesome i mean even with the market going up as we were saying with our sentiments being boosted you can even hear it in my voice and your voice and what you're thinking the demand for stable coins is still so high which is really interesting i feel like 2020 for us to be able to effectively speculate in these markets we need to obviously have really good on and off ramps and you have pretty much every government agency in the world trying to regulate this to death and the more that we cater to that legacy system the more we lose the purpose of of crypto like trying to fit things in the

the old box it won't work and we would just end back and right back up to where we started gotcha and i'm really curious how you determined which commodities are fitting into this aggregate index uh that ramify is going to be based on you know why did you choose some commodities rather than others and um you know what what was the determination for commodities at all i know you know at kind of a rudimentary level the uh dollar you know we have quantitative easing and uh other contractions where it is uh a centrally determined um you know function well that's

controlling the supply and the demand but generally it's based off a general sentiment of the economy and and you know how stocks are moving what was your philosophy of going to commodities and then even more specifically why certain commodities rather than others so that that's actually a pretty easy one um it's strictly based on volume so the bigger commodity is you know like crude oil uh even even down to like cows 100 biggest commodity markets that exist today that people trade globally there's no currently there's no mechanism to you know switch commodities in and out if volume goes

up or down on a certain market one's like you know 99th and the next day it's like 110th top 100 commodities we have today sorted by volume that's that's what we decided to use for our peg because that's the most indicative of what money today can buy and obviously same with like smaller cap cryptos when you get to like you know the bottom 150 or whatever you have extreme volatility that doesn't necessarily reflect what's going on in the global economy it's more just you know speculators making big purchases that day or something like that whereas moving like the crude oil market one percent by yourself is you know like

impossible um so yeah just uh sorting by volume that's it that's how we picked our commodities oil gold and silver and then we got food what's like what what are other big high money commodity sectors what i'm missing of corn which is like in literally everything you try to find a food that doesn't contain corn and it's like impossible even like steak somehow corn has found its way in there but you have like coffee beans that's a pretty big that's a pretty big market you have you have cows you know all the precious metals obviously gold copper silver aluminum platinum

those are all pretty big markets um the energy sector is huge obviously crude dominates that uh but yeah i mean it's usually i haven't committed it to memory but i'm thinking about like the idea for how to make this narrative uh work right this idea of using commodity purchasing power to function as what the value of like one purchasing dollar can do and i'm just thinking about like okay like how can that be spreading and i'm thinking like there is it's kind of a narrative that is kind of easy to understand for people um like i'm sure that both of you all have had explanations and it's not something that's like way out of the picture in terms of like uh okay it's based off the purchasing

power of of certain commodities right and so i mean i'm sure you guys have been able to explain it well um but what i'm curious about is on the on the side from taking it from okay so this is our philosophy that's kind of what rob asked i'm sure rob is curious uh here as well like what makes this work so what makes the ability for this data of the commodities and their and their markets out there with the blockchain and the ramify token model that makes it work so what is the rebases is there coupons i'm sure we can read all about it in the white paper but for those who are curious about like the mechanisms um would love to hear about it yeah i can ask you that um so you're basically asking

tokenomics in relation to these commodities correct yeah like so like what is your like yeah like what is your mechanism kind of like why like you know what like how did you come from okay this is our philosophy which rob kind of just like asked and that that just got me going crazy now so now it's like okay how did you go from that to actual thing type of yeah if you look at the consumer price index which is what apple forth is pegged to i don't mean the name drop but there is some issues related to the cpi that are a beast of its own i mean you can talk about all all the problems the cpi has and why why like regulators use it to measure the dollar instead of some other arbitrary like measure

but the measure that we're coming up with we amalgamate 100 commodities it can go from as you mentioned gold all the way down to potassium chloride because you also have markets in relation to chemicals wood clothing you name it you take this entire basket one dollar buys this much of gold one dollar buys this much of cotton this much of rubber and so on and that peg is denominated in one dollar and what the dollar can buy is going to be given as a snapshot upon launch so the contract is going to read hey okay january 4th 2021 a dollar can buy this much of gold this

much rubber and this much of steel and over time every week um the commodity crisis is going to be reset just like the rebases but the rebases are done on a 24-hour basis as most algorithmic stable coins do but the commodity peg is going to be reset every week so every week the dollar is going to be slowly well hopefully it doesn't get too inflated based on our numbers but every week the dollar is going to be slowly being dynamically weighted to these commodities over time and from a year from now who knows where that peg is gonna end up but that will essentially tell you okay one year from our snapshot which is january 4th

this is how much the dollar can buy now after what 52 resets uh so like 52 times understood yeah yeah and it's probably going to go down and purchasing power i mean that would be the thesis okay so this is going to happen so now that we understand that and that's how it's set it's probably going to lose value in terms of how much purchasing power it has unless the trend changes which it's obviously possible and it's kind of weird to be even saying that and addressing a like us dollar as like it's going to go down in value like it's losing value it's kind of crazy to even think about but anyways aside from that yeah ideally it's going to be going down so uh i didn't want i didn't mean to interrupt i just want to make sure that you know we're on the same page with how

how you're thinking that's definitely that's definitely right because so let's say the dollar of january 4th buys of course this certain amount but then a year later january 4th 2022 after multiple resets the peg might be a lot different it might be even a dollar fifteen because the cpi which is which tracks consumer inflation is going to say hey the dollar only devaluated by three to four percent even though they printed 24 of the us dollar supply this year so i don't i don't think those things are very correlated to how people view like money in real time on a global scale

like the cpi is just focusing on what what americans can do with their dollar and what some people around the world can do with a dollar but it doesn't address the raw the raw materials that all these consumers use in the background if that makes sense yeah so the it's really a different measure of inflation whether you're using the consumer price index the cpi or a commodity index um and it seems like the cpi is really underestimating inflation if i'm hearing you right yes is there reasons for that like we published an article on that it

pretty much details as just to why the cpi is wrong there's there's certain divergence there's a divergence in price of a certain prices of goods since the 80s and that's what that's when we think the cpi started to sort of divert from what the dollar is actually doing versus what regulators are trying to say hey you know what are the dollars doing great let's print more i you know i've seen a twitter account and also a bunch of articles that i've read through and they're all titled what the happened in 1972.

if you've seen that that twitter account or those articles and it kind of shows uh some some pretty interesting graphs that reveal like the separation between um i i believe it was income in like the median family income in the us and how it was on par with um generally how inflation was going people were making more as things became more expensive that's kind of like the balance that you want to see if you know you're going to be able to afford things but then something happened in the in 72 or the mid 70s where the median income of of individuals and families started to either go down or just didn't increase quite as rapidly as things became more

expensive so you know i'm not sure exactly what the differentiator there was it sounds like it could be a measure of how we were tracking inflation or if it was the gold standard i'm not sure when we came off that um but yeah if you could take it from the economic perspective there i'm fairly so with the consumer price index it's easy for the uh the us to hide the fact that goods are constantly getting cheaper because you know we're getting more efficient every day at making everything so if you know someone comes up with a new method for you know milking cows or something increases efficiency by 25

that's basically free game to print 25 more more money and fill it in and say oh look milk costs as far as what happened in the 1970s is probably uh is obviously just a theory but it's it's most likely due to the propagation of the petro dollar so once the once the us made its deal with the uh the middle east to only export oil paired with the us dollar it forced every other country in the world to interact with the us dollar and so thereby creating the dollars like the world's standard currency and so that's it was an extremely clever move on our part because now if we print 4 trillion dollars what

we're able to do is essentially just steal the labor of every other nation on earth because they're forced to if they want oil anyway they're forced to go through our dollar to get to the end game so that happened in the 70s and since then the u.s has had free reign to just print as much money as it wanted and every other country kind of had to to foot the bill and absorb our debt so you know it's a genius uh it really speaks to the nature of like money what it is how it works uh we left the gold standard back in the 30s so i don't think that had anything to do with it uh but i mean since like since the 1920s i just starting this project i was

looking through the math on you know the the amount of dollars in existence versus the amount of people in existence not in america but just across the globe since everyone uses it and just going by that metric the dollar has outpaced you know human birth rates across the globe to the tomb of about 96 000 so that's i mean that's just raw that's raw inflation and devaluation us dollar you can't possibly uh reconcile the two supply and demand there's more there's more dollars being created than there are people the value goes down so that's why the cpi is is inaccurate things should be a

lot cheaper than they are today but instead they've gotten more expensive and the um the ability for us to take take the labor of other countries as you know something that started about 50 years ago yeah there's a current theme for sure like with basically that kind of backing i suppose that idea that concept and that history that you've just shared has caused people to create a narrative in their own minds and also share that uh america is losing power in the global trade world uh there's thought there's talks of china there's talks of other big nations eu obviously like it's it's quite an interesting realignment of ideas right now that are that's happening in 2020 kind of just spiked it off not only in terms of money printing but

in social and cultural changes and psychological adaptations so um crazy concept but i wanted to kind of shift if it's cool we can come back to the economic aspect for sure here in a second actually it'll tie into this but i'm here because i want to make some money so for all of you who are listening y'all just listened to an absolute great idea of what the us dollar has been what we're trying to achieve here with stable coins how it can happen through algorithmic pegs and rebases and whatnot but how do the early people in the beginning how do they make money and it's defy it's transparent so i honestly fully expect you to tell us your strategy for making profits using the ramify token in the early stages

if you can't disclose everything you know that's totally fine and maybe this is an abrasive question but the way i see it is it's fully open it's fully transparent and if you were a participant in the network in the early month two months how would you feel that you would want to you know be an actor of profit in the system so i guess the easiest way to uh to tackle that like overall strategy is just um it's it's ubiquity the more the more trading pairs that uh the more we can get people to use ram as a trading pair against whatever it could be you know bitcoin eth uh chain like you know the more trading pairs we have the more ubiquitous ram is

the bigger of a an off and on ramp it is locking in your gains you know or you know entering crypto whatever that is our that's our niche we want to be the asset people feel safe in during tumultuous times in the markets so long-term strategy ubiquity how do we get there and that's by getting on to uh getting onto as many exchanges as possible getting getting partnerships things like that short term or maybe mid-term obviously liquidy liquidity is extremely important so we're going to be doing we're going to be uh are participating in liquidity mining programs we haven't set the rates yet but it's just that

point at which you know we are on ramping users of our protocol at a faster rate than we're paying out for users to provide liquidity i imagine it would be similar to any of these other liquidity mining programs you know what like at least double double digit percentages a year for providing liquidity and has the added benefit of not having any kind of risks associated with uh impermanent loss which is you know when you're providing liquidity for an asset if one asset goes down and the other one goes up and you know you're losing out on gains of one asset since we're a stable currency the uh the impermanent loss will be zero because you you know it's like pairing

dieth right it's uh you have a dollar you have doesn't matter which is which they're both still they're both still where they're at so we're not going to have that permanent loss which is nice yeah real quick it's like esd and you usdc payers get a bunch of tracks and they have huge liquidity that that stablecoin protocol just boomed off um and yeah their lps get paid because they're doing a service of providing their liquidity taking that opportunity cost um but they're also getting paid for it and there's no opportunity cost so again i just wanted to kind of make that clear it's kind of like a similar concept to um esd or even dsd those are they have really complicated mechanisms but um it's interesting to see how that idea of liquidity provision with stable coins um is uh it's ideal for both parties if

you will because sometimes ams amms being an lp sucks if you have two volatile assets it can suck um so that's definitely super important but real quick are you so pr so actually you know just keep going i totally interrupted speak you're speaking on the short term um how how big an lp was going to help you get all your liquidity um and medium term was exchanging etc etc yeah so we have a private sale going in now until the uh 31st are some some discounts built in depending on the uh the lock-in rate i think the longest one is six months because again liquidity is the name of the game and when it comes to stable coins but beyond that we're going to start our

injection offering which is just a unique way of introducing the token to the market via via uniswap and yeah yeah beyond that is going to be liquidity mining and liquidity mining and ubiquity those are the two the two ways we uh uh plan on growing our ecosystem it sounds like yeah go ahead i think and you you're also asking in the sense of how do i make money as a buyer or as a yes like i'm trying to get into your game and make money out of your game and that answered it for sure like it definitely helped but like like i know on dsd like which i have it's been fun it's been a good little experiment

honestly like you're up and then you're down and you're up it's just like it's a mind whirl but basically there's strategies right so when expansionary fits or when the expansionary phase hits you want to bond your dsd tokens right then you get hit with a rebase every two hours boom boom boom the the price goes back under one now you gotta unbond or buy a coupon or stay bonded so there's all these different strategies and basically what i'm trying to say is uh yeah i'm curious as to an early buyer what would you do because i feel like you know if if you don't want to share it and it's a strategy that you want to have yeah it's fine um but i'm definitely curious as to like yeah what you would say as a participant i know i'm rambling but yeah no i mean

[Music] our torrent which is are the way what we're calling our liquidity lockups is another great way for people to compound their returns um but to put it simply these algorithmic stable coins i think for the most part the people who see gains that are not that you gains in the sense of like i'm not participating in liquidity mining i'm not participating in anything else but just holding the token that only results in a profitable trade just because you got in at the cert like early so our initial market cap is said to be about 630 000 but as our network grows through rebases people buying the token people locking

up their liquidity tokens on you to swap and mining the liquidity then those are that's just different crowd separated from those who just want to hold it but as the network grows of course the market cap is going to grow so if you put a thousand dollars in at six hundred thousand our initial market cap and our market cap goes up to i don't know three million that it'll rebase a lot and you don't have to say all the numbers because this is a decentralized stable coin that you know it's being deployed you know so but yeah okay so i appreciate like that yeah i mean that's kind of it right so the positive rebases they hit and you make you know some sort of return but there's risks obviously right yeah you own you own a piece of you own a piece of the market cap so as

the market cap grows and you stay in it then of course you're going to own a larger portion of it but yeah there is risks of course all right and is it more of a um minting mechanism or a burning mechanism i know andy's talking about the positive rebases so you know if uh essentially what the ramify is tracking is it like an inverse dollar right because inflation's going to go up commodities are going to become more expensive ramify is going to go up in price so when ramify goes up in price is it a matter of you know taking away tokens that people

have or is there positive rebases what and i that kind of gets back to the uh the mechanisms that were at play that we were talking about a little bit earlier so um the actual increase in price of the uh of the token due to the devaluation of dollars not uh that's not really where where gains will be will be made with these algorithmic stable coins it's kind of an inverted way of of thinking about you know investing in that the price of what you hold will stay the same but the quantity of what you hold will either increase or decrease so you know you're investing in

you know ram which is a dollar but you know maybe next week even if it's still a dollar instead of one ram you have two and there's no um there's no leaning by way of you know minting or burning it's simply if the price is too high tokens are minted to drive the price down and if the price is too low tokens are burned to drive the price back up constantly searching for that that peg whatever it is at the time and uh yeah it's it's it's so if you would you know you look on coin market cap or something at your holdings you'll be like oh man rams only up you know two percent or something but in actuality if you look at your wallet

it could be an entirely different story because you could have you know three times more ram than you purchased originally and so it's a completely different way of looking at these markets and they aren't sure how you can you know expect to make money with with a stable currency and uh as far as the rebases go like we've um uh i have seen a lot of attraction towards faster rebases but there's a fine line you have to to to tow there rebases too frequently will decrease the volatility which is what attracts speculators but if your rebases are too far apart then you are unable to actually to be successful at being a stable currency so

yeah you're so right kyle real quick i was i was playing around pop finance like two months ago stupidest token ever bro but i rebased every 30 minutes i was like yo this is sick i was gonna get rebased at the rebase after rebase dude that they just dropped like a rock like you would you'd lp it get smashed with il get so much more tokens but they're just worth nothing they're just like ah but like on dsd it went up you know from 75 mil cap to 300 mil in like four days and freaking three and a half x in like four days i was like whoa what just happened and price went up to like three dollars which is just absurd anyways what i'm trying to say is yeah it's definitely different and like wow it's all hyped up make all this money

and stuff but the point is you guys are trying to solve like a real you know a real stable coin i guess problem it is a it's a situation that you know could be changed and yeah it's dope i i guess what might clear things up is um it's kind of a misconception to even call ramify a stable coin right because ideally the price is going to go up as commodities become more expensive relative to the dollar yeah there's going to be probably market caps going to go up well the yeah the price market is going to go up as well isn't it well well there's got to be some source i didn't mean to interrupt yes i feel like i've been interrupted i'm just going right now i feel like the uh like there's got to be an incentive for people to sell above a dollar

right or is it not supposed to be a dollar coin it's not supposed to be a stable coin or is it supposed to so i do think it is fair to call it a stable point the price is going up but um it's at a fairly slow rate when it comes to markets you're talking about approximately three percent a year like guaranteed that's just how much quantitative easing is but um you know no more than like five to six percent a year it's an extremely so the price is going to start at a dollar right yeah yeah i'm interrupted again but it's going to start a dollar and and the buyers are going to buy it up or something and but the sellers are going to sell it and so robbie you're thinking the price is going to go up above a dollar right exactly because

the the ramify token is going to track this commodity index right so on launch i i think they mentioned january 4th is when you plan on launching there's gonna be a snapshot and one dollar can buy you this much of these hundred commodities split up so over the next year you know call until january 4 2022 like kyle said there's an estimated two two and a half percent inflation on the us dollar so over that year you're going to be able to buy two and a half percent less of this commodity index now ramify is still going to buy you the same amount of that commodity index so it's going to be worth about two and a half percent more than one dollar that it started at and that

that to me was enough of a offer enough of an attractive um differentiator to to make it an appealing stable coin but then there's also rebasing and and minting and burning mechanisms that kyle you know you were explaining yeah to take profits into something that is theoretically growing at a more stable or higher rate than in the inflationary value of the us dollar puts u.s dollar peg stable coins at a lower level in terms of investor appeal uh instantly so it's crazy i mean just straightforward like i treat bitcoin as cash and i know that's kind of not the best thing to say in like a everyday

normie kind of sense because it is extremely volatile you know that guy nouriel roubini will come at my ass like no it's too volatile it can't be a currency same thing peter schiff will say the same thing but like you know if you want to have a bullish narrative on it on a certain coin and you're not too worried about the volatility you're going to denominate your investment portfolio in bitcoin so that you can continue i mean that's what like people that make money in crypto they want to stack sets right and then it is a matter of time on and it's a matter of timing when you want to exit that that bitcoin market if you see a downturn coming but you know from some of the more profitable people i've seen in the space

three arrows capital comes to mind immediately they track their portfolios in bitcoin and to me it's almost a version of ramify because you're getting away from the inflationary metric of the us dollar which is normally treated as cash yeah that like that perspective switch of denominating your wealth in usd versus bitcoin versus eth versus ram or you know uh usdt or even other like that's just crazy that's just like like yeah i know yeah rob you go ahead to me it's always a matter of beating the risk-free rate and you know traditionally it's like the 10-year treasury bond is the risk-free rate so if you can beat

two percent a year you made money and you did good but now like it depends what you want to treat as the risk-free rate ramify gets you two and a half percent three percent so like that is a better risk-free rate if you can deal with a little bit more risk you can treat bitcoin as your risk-free rate and still make you know a good amount of money but you have to be aware that it's not completely risk-free and and to me that's what i treat as cash is whatever that that rate is that i'm comfortable with the risk nice so y'all to feel free to have a closing thought on that yeah uh in the search for uh getting the rest of the world to to deal in crypto you know if you're

because i i also have no problem holding you know bitcoin ethereum uh any of the any of the big caps but i have an extremely high risk tolerance but if you want like small mom-and-pop shops or you know banks or people paying your mortgage or whatever to accept a crypto the amount of like acceptable volatility is basically zero and so that's why uh that's why i said that ram is searching for you know ubiquity we want to be used everywhere and the only way to achieve that is by being able to uh confidently onboard users with the knowledge that their holdings are going to be extremely stable in the early days

sure we're trying to attract volatility we're trying to have a ball to market because we know no one is using us in the early days as a you know dollar they're using it as a speculative investment but hopefully in the next you know year or two it does start to become an actual on or off ramp into the crypto world and at which point you can start to confidently onboard you know users outside of the crypto space with this this stable asset because regardless of what they think or believe it's still worth a dollar because the math makes it so and uh that's that's the game plan and that's how we're trying that's that's the niche we're trying to fill it's trying to be that safe just on off ramp mechanism at least in the later days of protocol

yeah and i like what you said about it initially being a speculative asset which i i mean there's a lot of parallels between ramify and what it's going to be and kind of how bitcoin has evolved um i i think bitcoin's uh timeline is a little bit broader than ramify's but the the sentiment still remains like people treat it as a speculative asset at this point because it is very volatile but over time if people use it more as a currency there's more ubiquity um in the case of ramify there's more trading pairs and you know it's treated more like a currency then it becomes an on and off ramp and uh you know people are able to use it more as a currency rather than a speculative asset and

that's happening for for bitcoin on like a massive scale of decades but it should be able to happen for stable coins and for ramify a lot quicker because obviously the token metrics are much different right like the way that it's i mean unless i'm a mistake in there like if like if i'm on the same page as you really i feel like yeah like eventually bitcoin will be less volatile and you know more is used as just like you know a store of value you know so kind of i don't know the analogy is like it's a speculative asset right now bitcoin's been a speculative asset for the last 10 years because you can't you don't earn your paycheck in bitcoin you don't spend bitcoin at coffee shop buying groceries whatever once that's available it's almost like you know if you can spend your bitcoin

at walmart or publix that's almost like another trading pair in the in the sense that ramify is searching for for different trading pairs so once you get the ability to transact and i can buy you know cereal with bitcoin yeah yeah right or i can random fire with or the stable coin or something right exactly then then there's way more ubiquity as kyle was saying and it's treated more like a currency rather than a speculative asset volatility goes down so i i do see the time scale as just kind of like a dilation with bitcoin when it when it comes to ramify and the differences there have you all been audited like once twice or like how's that going

how's the code how's how's y'all's like tech team or is it youtube like how's that been um it's just the uh it's just the two of us for now as far as the well as far as the tech goes it's uh it's just me uh but i have um our first audit is going to be complete by the second hopefully once we've taken some more some more funding i want to get at least two more two more major audits uh but a lot of the code uh coming out of the uh the zeppelin library so it's pretty it's pretty secure there's very few like unique unique lines we had to put in to make this happen yeah it seems like really just the api data pulling from the commodity indexes like the

the uniqueness of the project i feel compelled to ask the question are you guys worried about regulation in terms of securities law at all i mean after what we've seen with ripple um you know it seems like the sec could start encroaching on certain protocols obviously in something very decentralized it's difficult to do that but um offering you know this thing that's supposed to only go up based on these commodities increasing in price relative to the dollar are you guys worried about the regulation at all well we actually um and keep in mind it's not that the price is going up it's just that the price isn't really changing or going down so that's not really like

the attractive part but we do fall into there's there's a unique niche here in that the price of these assets isn't expected to really go up so much as the supply is expected to increase which securities law is extremely unclear about so um we are we do we do have we do have legal counsel on board and they're you know they're a little intrepid but as far as things are going currently the only major concern they have is that we create a governance mechanism so as long as our team isn't the one setting the uh setting the rates for the rebases and we implement a governance model we

are actually in a pretty pretty good spot better than most companies in the fortune 500 actually crazy to think about we're breaking the securities laws but like it's more community based and broad owned than most companies it's kind of crazy but we got one for another day i think we're about out of time here you ahead rob yeah well i was just gonna kind of i am just thinking out loud here is that really what ripple's downfall was um that they didn't offer voting interests to their community like that would that would have essentially saved them in terms of being the security no no they um uh i forget the the howie test off the top of my head but it's uh essentially promise people money or promise people

gains is one of them what's the other one i know you know it come on man you definitely know that i haven't recited how we test in like three years but it's promised people with funds um you take cash for it i think is probably one of them maybe or promising profits are expecting exchange for shares in in the company so that means that they own part of the company because they gave you money yeah yeah in addition to that yeah i'm sure ripple has done a bunch of as well to be honest with you but hey if you hold ripple and listen to this you know if you feel like you you want to hold it you know i can't tell you what to do man

you do you it might go up it might go down as per usual none of this stuff is advice we're talking about the prices going up with stable coins and the and the rebases just while kyle's finding the howie test which i'm still curious about uh just understand that this is all speculative risk so uh understand that anyways back to kyle okay so so we've got the how we test here is if it's an investment of money there's an expectation of profits from the investment the investment of money is in a common enterprise and any profits come from the efforts of a promoter or third party and so as i was saying there's an interesting uh thing here in that there's not an expectation of profits because where you're manipulating the supply side of the

investment rather than the investment itself actually gaining money um obviously this is a you know a little tongue-in-cheek thing but yeah and tokens aren't shares yet yeah yeah and and it seems like there's not a a centralized third party that is making the controls either so yeah and it's important that y'all have marketing like we're doing this because it helps you all grow it's marketing but like again it's not like we're closing people on the phone to buy tokens and that we're like doing aggressive third-party marketing to get things out there you know like yeah we're sharing information but it's um yeah it's definitely i mean i'm sure like i said i'm sure ripple was doing some shady to be honest i'm sure they weren't just an exchange in a token exchange

we'll stop stopping name dropping but like yeah the ripple i think they're like the rangers or the marines or some something man they'll come after you they will no i was gonna say it's just um what we're what we're creating here not not us specifically but everyone in this ecosystem is you know whether people are aware of it or not we are trying to get away from the legacy financial institutions that exist currently and that is something that those institutions are not going to like and so whether we do it up front or somebody does it through a decentralized dns with with fake names somebody's going to do it because you know these laws are ridiculous and um you know we'll see we'll see what

happens with um we'll see what happens with with this era of investment how how the sec treats the uh the defy space and all the things we're doing but yeah we're just gonna we're gonna push forward either way and uh i mean it's refreshing to talk to a project and a team that like has that mindset we talk to a lot of teams that are like yeah we wanna work with the regulators we want to really fit into uh the cen the traditional finance and everyone play nice together but i don't know crypto was born from like the revolutionary uh the this is the better way this like this is going to overtake the uh legacy system so i find it refreshing to

to see that that mindset still exists yeah for sure we we don't want to go to jail or anything but i mean it's good to keep that sort of strong edge i mean you look at all these projects that raise billions and they paid like uh what like a two million dollar fine like it's not i was like yo why like yo don't find me bro just print it and then we'll call it even done oh man yeah well that's i mean is there anything else that you guys can think of that we completely just like might have went over our heads or we missed like it's important on your minds whether it's on the marketing side or the protocol side like anything that is like key that we probably don't understand or haven't talked about

roadmap launch dates information websites i mean we'll post all this information on like in the twitter and what and what in the article but yeah we're still we're still working on a road map we're probably gonna have that out by this week as well as a governance model um we might be hosting our open sale so we're gonna be doing our open sale through through both uniswap and maybe pogo starter i don't know if you guys have heard of pokestarter so people are hyping it up big time yeah they've been reaching out to us for a couple of weeks um but i just got back to them because we were super busy but we're really we're we're gonna really look forward to like work with them uh within the next two weeks and

hopefully do our public launch with them the other real quick i don't mean to interrupt that keeps it as an erc20 token right it doesn't go in the polka dot blockchain because it's like kind of like a pair chain type thing yeah it's i think it's just the the fundraising part yeah yeah and they'll have some index yeah that our contract address would be up there and everything will be there yeah cool just want to make sure because i i wasn't concerned if polka dot has their own like their own like their own chain with pokestarter i gotta do more research but yeah so that is a good roadmap um with a launch i mean that like screw the ico screw everything else it's 2020 2021 so nice is there anything else i again i just interrupted but no not really i mean yeah uh

definitely the our the biggest issue and that's something i feel like we should really get out there is we're trying to like help help chain link integrate commodities into their d5 feeds we've had like some conversations with them regarding that but that's probably going to be our biggest challenge because just because of how it's expensive it is to put one feed up on there yeah and you guys are trying to decentralize your your api data get get it from as many different sources as possible correct but just uh today the infrastructure is just is not there so we're starting from a you know we're we're bootstrapping a centralized uh api feed of the get-go but

the the goal is to not have anything any of our feed centralized whatsoever but like at today's with what we have today getting 100 commodities onto uh chain like would be millions of dollars so it's just not feasible it's nuts and there's definitely a few other oracles but yeah that's the trusted that's like the go-to which the channeling everything is just crazy the community how it grows or i mean their product yeah it's it's interesting stuff but yeah well i mean i'm out of questions rob i mean this has just been fantastic yeah yeah this is super um i i guess to wrap it up since we are just about out of time um this is usually what andy asked when we hit our rapid fire around

but i'll go ahead and ask it um if you guys had to pitch ramify to one person in the traditional finance space or you know just the celebrity or anyone you know that would be interested who would you guys want to pitch ramify to who would you want voicing support for your platform i feel like i feel like i feel like elon musk could get behind it i'd like hey man you know we're having our money stolen every single year let's let's stop doing that let's get away from inflation and stop allowing these these regulators to just print their way into my pockets yeah he seems like the kind of person that would you know at least yeah hey he's ceo of dogecoin or at least he was

yeah the pitch would be the money of mars bro like so easy bro yeah what could you what can you buy the commodities on mars done done like let's go baby sign me up hell yeah well yeah i mean this was awesome this was a super fun podcast and uh there's so many people in the space and outside of the space you're going to say someone from chamber you know china yeah i would i would definitely would love to talk to him about the project

that would be like a huge accomplishment for the team honestly yeah as a biz dev guy that is that's it like that that would be a huge milestone dude that's easy write it down manifest that in 2021 i guarantee it happens like dead ass after this podcast write it in the journal look at it um your your coder buddy over here might think it's mumbo jumbo garbage but manifest that baby and i'm telling you it'll come it'll come kid i'm kidding but yeah that was absolutely awesome guys like i feel like you did a great job of explaining what your perspectives were all sorts of things about what's coming up with ramify um honestly i really enjoy these podcasts because a we meet cool folks it's something new

i'm fully in the moment and i feel like i just learned a lot i feel like i had my perspective has grown in my and it's just i really appreciate you guys being able to come on us making time um yeah yeah had a great time there's a lot of good energy here cool guys happy new year by the way since it's yeah happy new year looking forward to it that's right this will be posted uh in the new year and uh first one it was great thank you guys thank you very much by the way thanks for coming on yeah all right peace thanks for listening to the d5 by design podcast until next time defy slate team