DeFi By Design EP#18: Unleashing Leveraged Yield Farming with Alpha Finance

Transcript

welcome to d5 by design where we talk all things blockchain and cryptocurrency while striving to educate empower and enrich what's up guys it's boy andy real quick just want to tell you about the sponsors that make the d5 by design podcast possible first we have ave ava is a non-custodial money market protocol where you can go and leverage your assets and earn interest so you can go in there and deposit about 10 or 20 assets eth any stable coins rap bitcoin a whole bunch link and you can lend them and you can borrow tokens to go long to go short to earn interest head over to app.ava.com check it out they have v2 is coming soon check out avec next we have diversify

diversify is a layer 2 gasless decentralized exchange on ethereum they use starkware to conduct their trades on layer 2. the token neck nec has a liquidity mining scheme ongoing and they have a bunch of cool stuff coming in so if you want to trade on l2 in order books not just swaps uh check out diversify they're awesome with that being said let's get right back to the show i hope you guys enjoy and again check out ave at app.ava.com and diversify diversify.com to lend and borrow and trade on l2 cheers guys hello hello hello what's going on gang welcome again to d5 by design podcast i'm here of course with the man the myth the legend

robbie uh we are chilling tonight it's actually a little bit of a late one here 10 p.m in the eastern standard time and we are hanging out rob how you feeling how you feeling about the markets what's going on i'm feeling good i'm feeling great everything's looking good as far as a price action standpoint and it seems like tvl is ramping up a little bit so we're going to talk a little bit about that with alpha finance and our good friend tasha that we have on today and yeah overall away from prices everyone is still building protocols are are integrating i'm sure everyone's seen the urine editions which we will talk about as well so i'll pass it over to tasha tasha how are you doing in uh morning the am over in thailand thank you definitely a global market and

thanks for having me on uh definitely a really really exciting time for alpha we just launched a number of you know partnerships and also added a lot of pools when we first started there were only five pools on homora and now there are so that's that's a lot of things happening in november definitely yeah shipping and dripping shipping and dripping baby oh yeah there's been a meme going around of the bitcoin versus ethereum i mean it's actually a source of a heated debate it's like okay so you've got bitcoin which will never change has no improvements can't agree on anything and they've got ethereum and application layers shipping and dripping products left and right it's just

it's pretty funny and i'm not even an ethereum but one you know it's honestly great to see the level of push that you know some of these protocols have been yeah yeah i think that's that's super interesting yeah it's the composability along with just the enthusiasm around the ethereum community and tasha i'm sure you can speak more on that as far as what you've seen in ethereum and just in the in the recent partnership that composability between alpha and ave yeah i think i mean the the fact that it's composable that makes it so much more scalable and efficient homo itself builds on top of uni swap and sushi swap right so so that already is the foundation of our product and especially with the recent partnership and integration with away

what we did is pretty much that we saw how there is a gap between the interest rate you earn on eth on alpha homora and the borrowed interest rate you have to pay on eve on ave so right now if you just borrow the ease from ave you're paying one percent and if you land it on alfa homora at this moment you're getting 25 so technically you're you know gaming on that arp that that difference and we just make it so simple for our users and three simple steps you can already gain from that difference and also gain from the uh the assets that you learn on ave so yeah i think this composability factor makes it so much easier and faster to ship

and you know integrate with other projects and also move the device space and create the design space that's even uh you know more innovative than before yeah and i mean when you see an opportunity like that and you know it's right there and available an integration and a way to work together simply makes sense and it's easier to do right now like you were saying than either in other industries or in other situations but in that situation i mean that seems to be like a win-win so talk us through kind of what you're thinking um on alpha hamora's side so if if i'm new to alpha hamora and ave right where can alpha hamora fit into the d5 ecosystem

and what are we solving with the leverage yield farming the ability to have uh pools with liquidity you know earning apys you know kind of i'm curious as to what you see on on your vision of kind of like what alpha can fulfill um you know and kind of like how you can show that to somebody who might be new to this space if you will yeah yeah yeah so let me break my answer into two parts so alpha homora itself solved a number of problems and gaps in the space um the second part will touch upon more of you know alpha finance lab as a whole because alfa humor is only one of our products and then the second part pretty much is gonna show you more of what we're really achieving with a number of products that

we're building so for alpha homura itself what we saw as a market gaps are a number of things first we saw that there are a lot of eve holders and these youth holders are getting very low interest rate on eth and i'm sure if you ask any e-holder they're not going to say yeah they want low interest rate on these so that is itself already one huge market gap that we can tap and if we are able to generate the highest lending interest rate on ease without having our users to bear other risks apart from lending their eth then that's already you know one huge opportunity for us the second thing that alpha homura addresses is also the fact that we notice how

a lot of the yields are coming down but the youth farmers themselves are actually looking to increase their apy still because they are used to the you know four digits yields that they were used to back in in summer so when we match the two we are seeing this you know huge adoption of alpha homora a lot of leveraged new farmers or even leveraged liquidity providers they are willing to pay that borrow interest rate on ease because they are getting more returns from you know leveraging their yield farming positions and on the other hand the east lenders also benefit from earning higher lending interest rate on ease and in fact hist

in the market right now is is coming from alfa homora so that's more on you know alpha more and what we're solving but of course it's one of our products and alpha finance lab itself you can think of us as a cross chain d5 lab what that means is we're building a number of d5 products on multiple chains and you know each particular d5 product will solve its own problems right but what we're doing is we're also bringing synergy across our own alpha products so that they will not only capture its own market but they will also help each other and grow alpha ecosystem even further so to speak a bit onto that our next product which is coming up is

perpetual swap product so perpetual swap is as you know a product that you can take a leveraged long or short of any asset without having to actually have that asset so if you just have usdt you can actually enter into a leveraged 10x long position of btc um and you would you know gain or lose according to how the bt btc price moves right so what we see here is that the pressure swap product would benefit of ahomora because those who are taking leverage on alfa homora and quote-unquote like shorting each they're exposed to the short of east impact what they can do is they can

actually open the opposite leveraged long unease position on perpetual swap product and as a result they are actually minimizing the downside exposure while maximizing the returns on alpha homura so that's you know the actual overarching theme we're going for because we think the ideal financial product suite is something that can generate high yields high returns for users while offering a way to minimize the downside exposure and the perpetual swap integration is a great way to get a hedging opportunity for any trader because as you said your main customer main user on the platform is someone

looking for high yield so they're lending out their assets they're looking for leverage um and of course there there needs to be some hedging opportunities along with that and there's a lot to unpack in the answer that you just gave as far as what alpha humor is what you have planned for the future i i'm curious i actually have a couple questions on kind of the description you just gave but the most timely one i think is uh the the launch of ethereum 2.0 and if you think that we're going to see substantial outflow of ethereum out of d5 into the beacon chain on ethereum to claim staking rewards and how you think that might affect alpha hemorrha's tvl and any other functionality i think i

think that that's a good question um in my opinion i think you know ethereum 2.0 will be several years away um because just because you know if your infrastructure itself is really massive and to to migrate that to 2.0 it really make needs a lot of time and capital to make to ensure the security process right so you know in my opinion i think it would be several years out still i think this is a great first step for ethereum and also you know applications on build on ethereum so we can all benefit from the ethereum 2.0 scalability solution in the future but i think i i i still believe that it will be uh a

sometimes out so that means that you know even one year in d5 is a really really long time so i think next year would be really interesting what we are going to see is we're going to see defy expanding beyond ethereum so i think that will also come in play um in the d5 space yeah and and even included in that time frame what we'll see is a continuous desire for more yield people come to alpha people go to fall and people go and do borrowing and lending on platforms because they're after making more money that's the consistent thing that we can count on so when there's yield available right whether it's with ease staking or with alpha or with other chains or

with um even mean food coins we saw now maybe if that if that happened again it'd be a little different but we saw that that people are after yield and you know that that's what creates like everything that's ongoing and so yeah i mean with that said have you thought about the difference between short-term yield and long-term yield um and like obviously it's pretty straightforward but the short-term yield is obviously what people are after right now in the short term right like i wanted to make some some good quick money on apys and then obviously the long-term yield is the same thing but oh wait i want to hold a token for an extended amount of time um so i'm curious kind of like what your thoughts on like short-term versus long-term yield or

like just like as a whole and you know if you're trying to integrate that with alpha like that's great you know how or are you or have you seen that example in like other projects just because i think that there's a interesting trend ongoing and it kind of goes to what you said like one year in d5 is a long time so how can we get people incentivized or wanting to you know be active participants for over that time you know so i'm curious and i'm rambling a bit here but short-term versus long-term yields like like how do we as a community you know handle this what do you think uh about the difference and you know even tying it into alpha like how could you make people want to farm for a long time or want to hold the token and really earn that longer

term yield good question i think that uh you know a lot of you know people in the industry can see you farming as something you know short term i think of it as uh multiple angles though so you farming itself while it can be short term you can use it as a short-term instrument uh you know earning apy and and whatnot but if you look into in the future or even in the past you can see that there are a number of projects that are coming up uh you know almost every week right and these projects when they come up they would need to bootstrap their liquidity in whichever mm pools amm pools so when that is the case then that means that we are ready to capture

those opportunities as well even though a lot of the opportunities now are more on the short term but i think we can innovate and capture more of the upcoming farming opportunities that are going to launch with newer projects maybe with newer ways that these new amazing projects come up with so so you know we would help and capture that gap another point on the long-term youth that you mentioned that i i think it's something that's really interesting is more on you know the growth of usage of the governance token itself so i think right now people are mute farming and and thinking more in the short term because there are not much

usages on the governance token itself apart from you know selling and and earning that gains or they can use for voting for sure but in the future as each project continues to grow and build more usages of these governance tokens that can also bring in more of the long-term mindset into uh you know earning these tokens so maybe in the future we are going to see that people are doing this year farming not to earn yields but to aggregate these governance tokens to do more other usages that these tokens future cash flows and dividends yeah just yeah there could be an assortment of upgrades and improvements over time and yeah i mean it takes a community to get behind that

and a team to kind of lead that and be like yeah like um you know like this is something that we could work on for years um and you know grow and and really you know have our holders be a part of something uh that you know that continually gets better and that that's a really cool aspect of like the shareholder way that fair launches and like the farming kind of aspect creates in d5 i like that that sounds good yeah i think especially when you mention the fair launch um i think that narrative is something that uh resembles a lot with the users in d5 this year um and and i think we're gonna see more of that going forward too yeah and it all starts with community um and andy and i were talking earlier uh

before we hopped on the podcast and we said in the most recent weeks uh even since alpha started yield farming just a couple weeks ago um the coin has just gone up exponentially like 10x from from the launch and we're curious how difficult it is to build a substantial or sustainable community when the token has already gone up so much you know you can expect some selling pressure when a coin really increases in value but uh is there ways that alpha plans on really getting their community to stick around if d5 does have a turn down um i'm sure with the you know most recent runs up uh there will be another d5 winter um how does alpha really uh plan on

sustaining that community and getting people to build and continue to farm and yield and develop alpha even through those tougher times yeah and real quick tasha i just want to add on my two cents just like that answers one thing that alpha has done well that like alpha hamor has just every time that there's new projects as tasha was saying like they're able to um to like bootstrap and help grow their liquidity so it kind of keeps alpha hamora kind of relevant always if you will that's one quick little just boom idea that i just had off off touch santa and i think that can help keep the community around probably i think that concept i'll let tasha explain way more um but yeah no i i think like that kind of element it kind of keeps people

in the loop yeah yeah i think there are multiple ways that we're doing and also thinking of approaching this and of course you know d5 winter will come sooner or later um the first way which we are approaching this is pretty much the fact that we're working really hard a lot of new products and the industry knows that we're doing that right off already attracts a number of strong builders to join our community um andrei you know is one of the example andre kanye um and and you know he we are talking on on a daily basis bouncing different ideas you know how we can build these several things together how would it be benefiting to yearn how will it benefit alpha finance right

so the fact that we're showing this stance that we're you know serious builders in the space that also attracts the similar you know level of builders to join our community so during the the defined winter i'm sure these builders will really stick around and and power through together the second thing that we are doing is is like andy was saying that we're expanding to other communities by finding an angle to benefit their community while benefiting our products or project so what we're doing with avid is an example um the the urn on avery plus eve what ave is getting is pretty much more

people landing on ave right and that's their that's what they want another thing that is getting is also people borrowing each from ave so as a result generating more utility of youth lent on ave what we're getting is also more liquidity on our facamora so the leveraged new farmers have more liquidity to take leverage off so i think as we continue to do this with more and more projects we're gonna also build a bigger community and also retain them through the winter times and the last point that i want to make is also on the token usages so even though right now it's governance token but as we continue to

grow our product usage and also build more products uh more utility will come for instance so you know the the really basic one is uh security token right so if you stake the token to ensure the security of the protocol then you earn like percentage of the trading fees or uh the protocol fees so that is coming up uh it's just a matter of time of when we think it's best to launch that uh another usage that we're thinking of is also something that we name it ourselves it's work token what that means is that with let's say if you hold alpha you can use our product better than if you were to not hold it for instance if you were to take a

leveraged position on alfa homora if you hold alpha you can actually open a position of more than two point five x which is the maximum right now on our homora so that is something that we're you know uh we we have in our plan but it's just a matter of time of when is the best time to launch these utility gotcha yeah it's always going to be a matter of implementing those features and and listening to the market and seeing what people are demanding from the market and and how that can benefit each of the protocols independently but that that also goes to the composability where actually end up benefiting the whole ecosystem and multiple protocols end up benefiting

mm-hmm yeah i feel like that's like a common goal of the ethereum community i mean everyone has their own inner ego and inner desire to win and make a bunch of money and whatnot i mean that's just like a thing of human nature almost some people it's amplified than other people but basically yeah like that was one thing that just kind of took me a as a really cool thing to to have like in the community it's really interesting to see the way that these protocols can collaborate but also just i feel like the way that generally people think you know it's it's a very zero-sum game especially when you incorporate any sort of leverage like tasha does um you know like it it is a zero-sum game in the markets but it almost never feels like that with the ethereum community yeah yeah i agree and i think we're

gonna see more of that and hopefully we're going to see more of this in other chains and you know l2 as well i think on a really long term viewpoint i i really believe you know d5 should expand beyond ethereum i i think ethereum is going to be a really big component of it for sure but if we're looking to expand this further and really onboarding more people to d5 i i think it has to expand to multiple chains could you expand on maybe why that that's the case what do you see in other chains other than ethereum that provides more capability for for alpha and d5 as a whole so i think it's it may be less on you

know the functionality itself but i think it's more of the fact for instance right um like binance smart chain which is what we're gonna build uh the professional swap product on in addition to on ethereum the the reason that we are doing that is because we think you know the binance marching has their own binance users and that is already a huge group of users and demand that we can onboard to defy and if we are able to capture that demand then we can grow defy even further even though the base layer acts pretty similar but it's more of you know the community that ethereum has been building versus the community that maybe let's

say in this case binance or other chains has been building so as a result if we can combine all of those and and pretty much bring them on to d5 then i think that will benefit not only their ecosystem but also ethereum ecosystem because they're going to be more flow of money across those multiple chains and benefit more usages of the d5 protocols on ethereum too one angle as well is the fact that uh with more protocols there's more decentralization with uh with over-reliance on aetherium comes a a harsh harsh conflict and downfall one day but without an overall reliance and the

ability to have options any sort of black thursday through friday saturday and sunday event would go out of the window almost because you have all these all these options and different backups i like that aspect a lot as much as i support ethereum and uh and bitcoin and communities yeah it would it would almost be it'd be silly not to try to explore it elsewhere you know especially on binance chain or i don't know from what i've heard cosmos and polka dot i mean i definitely done quite a bit of research on cosmos and you know they they have quite a few projects on on their blockchain i'm not sure if uh if they're gonna be a leading contender with polka dot and and finance smart chain or if we'll see

a few more new ones pop up that'll be really really taken by the horns because right now i mean there are ethereum competitors but there hasn't been any that are that have been like everyone have like been you know actually impressed by yet almost yeah they do seem to be creating their own niche though um i i've done some some research and some some development work on solana and it has its benefits um solana and some of the other chains might seem to be focused more on gaming um rather than finance and we could start to see these niches kind of develop more more fully and tasha you might be seeing this you know you're working at the ground level and implementing these different protocols

have you started to see some um particular areas where certain chains are really excelling maybe past ethereum even uh no so so i think not yet and i think well then which ones suck well you you can't pretty much judge or take a conclusion right now because it's a long journey and i'm sure there are a lot of plans coming up for each you know all of these different chains and l2 but i think it's more of you know 2020 has been the year that they have been building their their base layer and also onboarding a number of projects but i think what i

what i think is going to be really interesting is going to be the next year where a number of these chains are starting to get adoption and also different l2 solutions are coming to life so i think the landscape will look very different you know this time next year again yeah and and kind of extending that that timeline um going down a couple years i've heard vitalik mention that really at the end of the day d5 is one of the applications of ethereum but really in the long run that it's not that any um interest rates can be any higher than what we're seeing in in fiat markets and i've kind of went back and forth on that idea if there is some uh new value creation because of all the

composability or if it really just boils down to the interest rates that we see in traditional markets um so i'm curious your thoughts and uh if you think the uh defy ecosystem the whole really the whole digital asset ecosystem is uh poised for a merger with the fiat really the the existing uh economy or if it can be if it's more poised for some sort of revolution over that um or if there's no interaction at all and it's gonna continue to be separate yeah what's your ideology yeah are you a revolutionary are you like a um envisionary collaborator or are you a full anarchist or are you a

a regulatory acceptor like how do you feel about all that kind of stuff i i feel that you know we are just ready for for them to adopt and and regular which we're all just waiting for the regulatory to to catch up uh right and i think when that happens we're gonna see uh d5 and traditional finance uh slowly emerging i think before we get to that point which is going to be a long time it's going to be you know two separate worlds and that's mainly because of the regulatory issues and um and each government is is taking different approach uh wow versus you know the blockchain and decentralized space where everyone is on the same page as opposed to you know in traditional

finance where each government and each you know ministry has their own way of thinking so i think for them to come to be on the same page will take a long time and to really adopt d5 will be a long time but i think what is going to be you know the new innovation in d5 is pretty much more on how d5 would fit into up-and-coming niche areas of applications on blockchain so for instance like nft is something that i i think has a lot of value in it and it's something that hasn't got a lot of attention yet but if uh in the future you know when nft uh becomes more fungible ironically when even though the name is you know

non-fungible token but i think the value will really unlock when these tokens become more funchable and you can actually use these uh tokens in d5 so pretty much you know the artistic value the value of different pieces on you know in the game you can actually use that as collateral in d5 and pretty much earn from those nft tokens and i think you know as as we continue to wait for the traditional finance and governments to catch up and pretty much you know adopt d5 i think in the meantime we're going to see defy expanding and integrating with other these of these coming

niche areas on blockchain and it is early but we are starting to see those products evolve uh if you're familiar with rope or axi infinity they're providing yield farming on nfts which is a very interesting concept um but it continues with the the original uh value proposition of d5 which is taking assets and making them productive um which i think is pretty much at the core of d5 um and they're continuing on that goal and the other thing about nfts that that you mentioned to me nfts are the first step to digital identity um which has been tried in the past but um it seems like nfts are really the

enabler for that and when i was first introduced to cryptocurrency bitcoin and ethereum um i i mean that idea was was present in my mind from the start where we don't need a social security number and these medical records and a driver's license and all these documents um to to keep track of you know why can't we just have them all in in a in a bar code that we have access to where it's easily accessible and and if someone needs to get rushed to the hospital they don't need to wait on um the medical records that they might have had a week prior when they first experienced the condition it's all easily transactable and movable

and to me nfts really unlocked that possibility i'm not sure if you see things similarly yeah to me it's just a it's just a bunch of memes on digital art that it seems like you can just sell a bunch and make a bunch of money if you have a lot of followers and that's the given changes no but i have possibilities but yeah well that's the current stage that's the current stage of like where we're at but like your your vision is on point i think it's like it makes sense but it's just funny that like right now nfts are simply a meme for art but like artists are starting to actually have them and like like uh there's a guy that i follow on on instagram actually his name's beeplecrap

weirdest political anime photos a gory just hardcore weird and um they launched their own store on rarible did a huge sale there that they have a few hundred k on instagram you know they made a bunch of ethereum it was just kind of crazy to see it happen like real time it was cool i mean i don't know tasha do you actually see where you could integrate nfts with alpha with the alpha token or with the platform right now to like make it more valuable to users like do you do you actually see like a possibility there in the current state or like is it more like like a future thing as you were saying um yeah i i think it's more of a future thing for us um

i i think it's something that we are excited about and we're you know watching it closely and and making sure that you know when when it's ready we will uh find a way to to integrate with the nft area so if you had to give me one idea for what you think like the one of the best use cases for nft in the current space would be like what do you think aside from art of course that's tough um i i i mean i think what exxae is doing is is really interesting in terms of you know how you can uh you know earn cash flow from this piece of land on on the game and pretty much

uh use that to measure the value of that nft token so i think that itself is is i think it's interesting because technically with nft uh nature itself you know each token isn't that comparable to the other so it's harder to know what's the value the real value of each token but now that you have this standard of cash flows that you can compare it among different tokens then you can have a way to actually measure what each token is worth and i think that's the good first step to to pretty much um making these tokens more fungible and in the future bring more use cases uh outside of nft

beyond and beyond nft and also enter to d5 space gotcha yeah um and and bringing it back to alpha um talked about kind of down the road uh some of the products that uh you plan on launching with the perpetual swaps and well maybe even nfts after this podcast hopefully we gave you some ideas um is there anything else that you have on the horizon that you want to tell the audience about upcoming partnerships major updates coming up uh integrations that you're excited about yeah we also have alpha homora v2 coming up uh we haven't come up with the name but that's also coming up and we will continue to share more in terms of the details not only about

the professional swap product but also about this alpha hamara v2 um that will be pretty exciting for us nice that's pretty dope obvious got a v2 coming out soon as well v2 just sounds so uh so like kind of mystical like oh yeah we have v2 is there going to be a tokenomics upgrade for the alpha token that's that was one of the biggest questions from the uh poll that got fifty percent of the votes wow yeah right not a surprise huh yeah we're totally in it for the tech guys yeah definitely there's gonna be so when we launch uh perpetual sword product they're gonna be more usages of alpha

token on that product itself and as we continue to grow our fahomora be it b1 or v2 once we grow more adoption and usage of our homora then that's when we're going to bake in more alpha usages um and tokenomics on alfa homora yeah governance would be a quick and easy one i mean quick and easy it's complete opposite but like yeah it would that that's definitely a use case that um will shine more lights uh you know for what's more to come but yeah like the cash flows and the dividends upgrade um you know it's a constant process you can do all sorts of vesting rewards right with the short term and long term yields it is it is truly a art and a science to create a token that

masterfully uh grows in value um you know y'all have done it so far up to this point so congrats and yeah we we wish you the best of luck on the continuous push there fifteen percent of the audience uh wants to know tasha what is your biggest goal wow um that's a tough that's a that's a that is a tough one maybe just a few visions or a few goals that you have or something that you think of yeah i mean i am very interested in finance um and i myself came from traditional finance so my vision is pretty much uh you know be someone or through alpha finance lab innovate the traditional finance realm

um hopefully we'll see that sooner as opposed to later and pretty much unlock this financial access to more and more people especially in developing countries which is where i'm from like thailand i think there are going to be a lot of benefits uh that will bring beyond you know d5 users but to traditional finance users and we are uh kind of running close on time here so we'll probably wrap it up in a couple minutes but um some some current news that happened today and i'm curious on your thoughts um if you've heard about the bill that was proposed in in the u.s so maybe it doesn't have as much impact on the global market um to regulate all the stable coins um

and force stablecoin issuers to get a bank charter and fdic insurance um if you think that it has any merit any traction that'll gain um or if you think it's just uh some haters happening in congress from no coiners that that really just want to see uh things get torn down i think are there i think i mean the good thing of that is you know this means that the government and and the big institutional players are really really uh taking a look at what we're doing and i think uh that means you know we're on track to something really really big um of course i may not agree with how

they're doing it um but i think uh the fact that they're they're showing that this is something you know that they are actually scared of in a sense of you know uh growing their um their financial system uh and making sure they regulate this um i think there can be different ways that they can do it better and hopefully you know defy and and crypto and blockchain space community overall can work together and making sure that it moves towards the direction that we all want it to be as opposed to of direction that they the governments want it to be so i think it's going to be an iterative process not sure how much

power we all have to to debate against them something that we all you know as an aggregate community can work together yeah i mean ultimately we are humans on this earth together trying to create harmony at the very core level so for us to even consider either side to try to go at this with a hostile attitude would simply be futile it just it just wouldn't make sense there is only collaboration to be had because i mean ultimately sacrificing a bit of what we might believe to be defy or decentralized for what that's worth on their end and on the regulatory body you know it's like as you said like it's an ability of having them to kind of come and meet

us in the middle of it and you know like we're going to have to work with them um you know as we can i i kind of see all this as like great news um you know like i don't know how the market might react but you know i see it as generally like speaking pretty good news yeah and tasha mentioned that um it it shows that governments big institutions are are taking things seriously where before um in the 2013 run it was really like um what is bitcoin you know no one's really heard of it it's just this thing that's coming out into the into the arena um and in 2017 that that was still the case but it was more

for not just the the finance and tech oriented personnel uh it started to reach the masses but it was still like what is bitcoin what can we do with it what where is it going um now things are different and andy you mentioned this in a past podcast where the sentiment doesn't seem to be uh what is bitcoin now it seems to be all right well people are somewhat familiar with it now it's really about pushing the limits of where things can go yeah agreed and i think tasha and alpha hamora along with the rest of d5 are absolutely pushing the limits um you know as as best as possible and i'm sure tasha sometimes probably feels this way like i mean

being at the cutting edge of a groundbreaking debatably uh regulatory arbitraging uh global mass of trustlessness is uh i don't know it really puts you to put you to bed with a lot of thoughts in your head at night you know there's a lot of things going on definitely um a lot of things keeping me up at night for sure it happens um but yeah it's been a it's it's uh crazy like in the next month things will just be even crazier um and i mean who knows what's gonna happen i mean but that's one of the best parts of being here being in this industry is just you know being able to wake up and have no clue what's coming next yeah exactly it's great well tasha um

that is about all that uh i have for us today rob how are you doing yeah yeah this has been another another super podcast uh i'm super excited to see how alpha continues to grow uh definitely going to be on the lookout for v2 as well as perpetual swaps and maybe on nfts later down the road um tasha you have any parting thoughts no i think this has been really really great and i think what you guys are doing pretty much you know spreading more of great podcasts uh bringing more community to understand e5 to understand what's really going on in d5 as this space is really moving fast and it can be hard to you know catch and and stay up to date so i think this is a great way to we all

work together and grow defy together yeah thank you because i mean we we really appreciate that we put in time on this and yeah we're ultimately trying to do what we can to help the community as well as we were saying about the ethereum community just the greater community as a whole it's awesome uh we appreciate your time and we're glad that we can make time for this and uh yeah you have a great day thank you thanks for having me thanks for listening to the d5i design podcast until next time defy slate team