DappCon23: Opportunities, Risks, And Observations With The Intent-Based Architecture - Hsuanting.eth

Transcript

so if you could please just kindly join me in putting your hands together as we welcome one thing. from foro combo thank you very [Applause] much uh good morning everyone um uh I do the introduce about me first and then talk about what we're going to talk today so about me my name is uh shantin uh I've come from Taiwan um I am the co-founder of of uh Dingo and we started build decentralized apps starting from the end of 2007 so we started from like dingo deck is old book style desal exchange which is not so sexy anymore and the famous product that

we build is through combo. app and now we have uh built a protol link so today I'm going to share uh the topic about like opportunities risk and our observation with the intent based architect over the years um I can say intend is the boss word like within a couple months uh everyone wants to know what is intent so do I uh but no one really understand what is intent so I'm just like sharing what we think about this uh it's not a firmed answer or it's not uh there yet so just uh some thoughts about this so like if we search uh what is intent uh on the on on the Google or uh start to see at the

community um how people describe intent based architect what is intent some people say okay it's a better user experience uh easier for people to use it might be the solution to unboard the next million user um some people say it's a shortcut we don't have to deal with a lot of different things and some people say yeah int is just basically Des aggregator um I'll say this is all correct and um uh we take the cow swap for example there are the intent OG personal opinion um you go to cwap and then you express your uh intent on their site say I have E I want maximum usdc so you can feel like oh I'm already in the intent like

now like every day for the couple months or year so you submit your intent to C Swap and then the solver or the protocol they are start to work on finding you the best best solution uh to find a CO instance or they can go out to the Dex to ask for the best price best route and then put it on chin so this is uh very classic or um yeah the the intent architect that we are using now but intent is not just um focusing on tax or token swaps you can say any other like Diva actions or a lot of different things they can be intent you can express your intent so let's take F Cabo

uh as a example if you want to do a collateral swap on a uh you can go to for combo and then you express what do you want to do it's basically you you you put every step and then you know you made your own solution so um it's very complicated but it works and we see people that is get getting really really confused on how can I swap my collateral from uscc to die in a very efficient way instead of uh you know just go to a.com or unis.org to you know back and forth or even through compo is a little bit complicated in it before so that's why we have the landing dashboard so the landing dashboard is to shorten the uh the Journey of swapping uh your

collateral or any defi actions so you just tell us that you have usdc as a collateral and then you want to go to die and then we do the rest for you so um you can say this is somehow like an intent but I won't say this is the classic one so if we uh give uh like short summary about like what is intent um I I say it's a process um to express what you have and what you want you have e you want maximum usdc but you don't have to worry about like which decks you should go or which trading route you should go you just leave the rest to professional to explore the possible solutions so this is intent architect uh personal opinion but if you want to see

oh what's the stack inside the um intent architect what can we do if we want to build something what should be the focus I would say it's a account abstraction automation me and privacy so um int is not just for like defi swaps Landing I think it can expand it to a lot of different things like bridging farming even Perpetual trading this kind of like really really complicated and then you you might think that oh there might be a better solution uh than my solution then you can use in 10 L solver L professional to find the best for you uh also nft trading is even more complicated than token swap uh it

contains more information the market is more complicated so I think NFD trading is like super uh good case for intent trading intense uh architect also gaming I'll say basically everything happen on CH uh is suitable for intent just like imagine uh in our real life um if you have you don't have time or you are not an expert of that area what you will do you will find an agent to buy the house to plan a trip or to do anything you want so I'll say everything you can you know include it in a intend architect so if we know that okay intent is coming intent can cover a lot of things but what would be the change for the user

for the Builder for for everyone of us I would say first thing is um if the intent is coming or we have more intern architect the for the user it will be easier to uh navigation that um of course everyone here we know if we want to swap a token where should we go and then uh what are the bad decks what are the good decks but for our parents for our next Generation might not be the same um just imagine easily um if someone a friend of you you say oh you can swap your token blah blah blah and then they'll start to process like oh where should I go to find the best exchange what should I prepare and then do I need to know anything so if we can

just simply say hey I have E I want the usdc and then throw it to the intent to the sofware and then they'll help you to D You' have to know who's the Dex like or should I go landing first and then Dex or something like this so it's easier navigation for all the users so that's why uh people will say intern architect can bring the next million user to the crypto because we somehow uh make it easier for them to do things on chain and also related to the user it's a lower chance of being scammed um like for normal people who knows that it's Unis swap.com or unis.org is it sushi.com or su.org or which contract I should interact with uh should I approve

first or should I send out a transaction what's the difference between sign and the transactions a lot of knowledge they need to know uh to prevent them being scammed or you know make the right transaction so same uh I think uh solver or the in Centric uh that will help the user to stay away a little bit from scam and also defi can be operate on a mobile phone let's say if you want to do a c swap on your phone is it possible yeah it's possible but it's really really hard you need to find a wallet that has a Ina browser and then go to the website do everything by yourself but what if you can just Express what you want by using a telegram bot or just like chatting with the chat gbt say oh change my clor from usdz to die on a and then

they do the rest for you that would be super easy just type and then send it out or even you can say even longterm I have 30k uh US dollar uh make sure the API is higher than 2.5 percentage then the the sofware the Bots they keep looking for the higher um apy for you keep moving your assets make sure it's you know doing well so you can do it on phone you don't have to check every day you can even when you are taking B taking Uber you can have this kind of command so it's like super easy and in the past we will think oh if I want to do a trade I can go to Unis swap I can go to the site directly so that will save me gas and then I can get a best price but now uh defi is getting

more and more complicated uh at the front end you got tons of solution at the back end you have M you had sandwi attack so maybe in the future to submit your transaction or to leave your action to the solver to the professional know uh you will get better result compared to uh your own solution and um there are a lot of vaults on the internet not on the internet on the web like y or blah blah blah a lot of Ys uh div aggregator um so I think maybe Vault will be replaced by the software bot you just like oh I have 30k us doll and then you know finding the best solution keep finding keep moving so I don't have to uh deposit into a predefined uh vaults yeah the

vaults are good you know all the rules are there so you don't have to worry about they being bad but yeah software will be more flexible and then they can consider based on the uh latest Trend maybe just a new protocol goes online uh last night uh but Vault cannot update that quickly so uh maybe we're replaced by the Bots and anything outside the Core Business can be hand over to the solver uh this is I'm saying that let's say you are building a a protocol Landing protocol uh you want as much as people deposit their asset to your to your site right uh I have 30k US dollar but I want to um you know put my uscc to eth as a collateral because eth got

higher apy assumption um so I have to to go to Dex aggregator and swap my uh USD to e and come back here what if uh adap they can just simply say oh I integrate with something some API that can automatically uh swap what ever the use have to the Target like e or usdc as a cloud and put it on my uh platform uh if you want to do this it's doable now but you have to go to Dex and then re hold the contract and then you do the integration by yourself and then you you will have to maintain like um to to their latest version you know Smart Country change the fast and then if it do don't change it might break or it might be danger so you can leave it to

solver say hey um I integrate your API and then uh what our user have and swap it to e and then put it on our side so like you just focus on your core business the rest will be taken care of by the solver also the bridge or F on ramp yeah so yeah every side they have a bridge they have swap something like that and maybe de don't need a front end anymore since we are talking about like int and then user might uh just intact with the solver or uh like like C swap or you know that kind of thing um they will just say oh I have E I want usdc so they might not come to your site so maybe you don't need to spend time building a website for the end user just focusing on catching those user who's

like you know go through the intent solver and then they will communicate with your protocol directly yeah so uh we see this trend that's why we build the poing I'm not going to show the product uh uh like you know the whole time but just explain how this will help uh the developer to get into the intend architect so in the past we build a FBO uh FBO is basically def aggregation we connected to Major def5 protocols on major uh uh blockchains um when the user they want to do something then out the coll land out there e or swap token liquidity blah blah blah any kinds of Def action they come to through combo and then we give them SEL uh solution you can use this Cube you can use this protocol and then

they assemble their trading strategy and then put it on chain so this sounds familiar right uh it's uh what solver is doing they find the solution and then they put it on change just in the p through compo is focusing on end user we we allow end user to do that but now we have intern architect so that's why we think uh maybe we should uh allow the the Bots the solver the developer to communicate with the deps directly just like the user use through comp to do that so uh we redesign the through combo back end and then make it stand alone it's called protocol link so that means protoc link together uh if you uh come to protocal link and then you can find tons of different um like um integration between like major def5 protocol and

something like that but the biggest difference is that in the past F compo use Smart contract to integrate with every protocol so that is uh expensive it's uh high risk and cost us a lot of resource to make sure it's stable and safe but now on through on protocol link we used uh typescripts uh and then uh of course we still have some small count but it's our core we use Smart cont the rest uh when we are communicating with other protocol we use typescript so it's easier for us and also the developer to maintain the integration uh between uh the the the the our engine and then uh you know their protocol so let's see uh C swap uh you go to C Swap and then you express your intent I I have E I want

Maxim usdc and then the CW protocol do the magic for you on proing is basically same we we are not a solver and uh but we we are a solution that we provide tons of solution to no matter is provider uh developer or the solver so user Express their intent or what they want to do simply maybe you can say I want to solve a token and then uh through our API and then our engine will start to check okay in our database we got maybe 60 600 or 6,000 protocol integr with us uh I can keep asking price to uh every protocol and then oh I found the best price and then oh I'm going to use you so if you want your protocol to be seen by Bots by solver by developers uh I think protocol link uh

it's a good platform that you should integrate with and simply just write the typescript we call it logic and then put it on our GitHub and then your da will be exp um you know have more maybe get a chance to get the traffic from the bot the solver or you know other developer but not just intent uh if are SOL if you are a developer that you want to uh build something on defi but you don't want to write SP contract or you don't know how to rise B contract I think ping is a best tool for you because you just need to use our API or SDK and then you can interact with the whole defy uh space without writing Spa contract which is very expensive and danger so uh yep so if you are interested uh go to docs.

prol link.com so okay I'm going to speed up five minutes that so what's the benefit for everyone if we are moving to in uh intent architect or you know more more intent architect coming out so for the user um it will be easier ification uh in a crypto space you they don't need to identify everything they don't have to go to defa Lama and try to figure out what is the right information and also they will got the best solution provided by the global agent rule by the math uh imagine uh let's say uh if you okay I'm a Taiwanese and I live in Taiwan most of my time uh maybe you have some money saving Taiwan so my bank will have a agent uh selling me what like Financial product I should buy to you know

increase my wealth uh but I'll say like most of why the slides are moving themselves uh okay yeah so maybe maybe my agian they're professional but uh you know they are just you know maybe Asia uh Focus so just like USA or Europe no one is like you know genius about the global product but if we are going intent and then you know those solvers those uh Bots they are Global and then you know they they they move fast just like chbt so they can probably find you the best solution for you and then it's just like ethereum it's ruled by Math and Science and you know Cal graphy so I

think that would be best and for the Builder your T will have a have chance to be known in the past you have to build uh front end back end and then run your social media try to let people know who you are what you are building but in the future uh maybe you you don't you don't you know really need to have a front end you just um you know focus on your algorithm and then that the BS the server find you and use you so I think that's a benefit for everyone so what are opportunities uh if you want to work on int Centric stuff int based architect as I say obstruction automation MVB privacy anything related I think it's part of this and uh cuz everyone uh it that's say oh if I want to go to C swap

I want to swap East to usdc then it's using their language or using their format to do that but if we want to make this global and everyone can you know solve my problem everyone can read my problem we need to have a language that a regular expression of you know everyone's intent make sure it's readable by the all the Bots and also uh we got the uh solver so solver somehow from from my perspect is somehow like a like a node or you know try to if we can decentralize the solver Network and we can get get a you know better solution without uh you know doing bad bad thing or you know good thing so we need rewards and penalties on so networks and more user friendly entry porn for the

general user in the past we have to go to website uh using our browser install metamask on it and then you know try to submit a transaction but maybe in the future we will not uh use a browser to visit a DA or we use the telegram bar Char BT or maybe just simply send a text or call call by phone talk to a uh you know like press one if you want to swap press to you want L money something like this so we can explore more entry point and then more int actions not just defy like nft or real uh voting anything on CH I think it's perfect for intent and of course privacy I don't need to uh spend time talking about this everyone has already you know know the importance of the Privacy so the future so um I

think the future was simply um if we can see so let's say uh I'm sending sending a usdc to to someone using ethereum uh I feel comfortable because I know how I'm going to operate this and then I know the whole process how will it looks like and then uh how to make sure that it's firm okay wait maybe wait for six confirmation 10 confirmation and then I'm sure that oh okay this person will get their uscc but uh Intel architect is new like solver is still like new uh if we can but solver you know you can you can you can see the benefit of using using them um and everyone's lazy so I I I'll say server

will be the future automatic slide so the future um yeah I I hope when we are using the sare no matter is a software Network or blah blah blah like this uh we can feel uh very safe very confident on you know uh telling the server that what I want what uh what I have what I want and then they will give me a solution I will not get wrecked um it will be much different uh from from now because now if you want to do anything you have to find your own solution you need to understand the bridge you understand the you know all the def5 protocols yeah so uh this is the sharing of today on you know what we've been building and then how we see

the intent and this is my Twitter account we call it X but I still like the the bluebird so I still call it Twitter and um we so so there's a talk today talking about intent maybe in the afternoon uh might be good so you should listen so I I think in is something new um we we want to GA a Meetup or you know people who are interested in this uh just chat nothing formal just chat and then uh maybe Wednesday Thursday or Friday so if you want to know when's the time I haven't decided yet so uh you can contact us on me on uh Twitter yeah that's it um so it's a question time any question

all right um do we have any intent based questions we have people on the side who are willing to take questions we have just a few minutes so I will pick and choose um but we have a long list of talks today so feel free to always ask questions um if you could just signify by raising your hands I don't seem to see okay yes we have two all thank you um yeah with all this um new progress on uh intent based transactions and protocols I was just wondering if you were aware of any

projects uh aggregating all this in um information of the for example for dexus like an aggregator because it seems like this might be fragmenting liquidity again while it would be great if all of this could be connected with each other so you are saying that is there anyone who's aggregating all the information like unch information like apy rates well for example yesterday at safe con there was a talk from Eno Finance who might be some doing something similar I was just wondering if you were aware of like other people working on

something like this uh who are the people that are collaborating on uh yeah on pushing this forward yeah uh I think both uh like P link and and so we are doing the like similar things and then uh we are R will provide the information that it's like calculated by us and uh defo I I believe that they do provide uh some information and also if you are using like Zer SDK I'm not sure to they like keep updating it yet but uh they do provide information in the past yeah so and I do agree that information is important y awesome uh we have the gentleman in front hello here gentleman um anyone has

any more questions all right I said the gentleman at the back and I'll hi good morning thanks for the night's talk um I love to see the next uh uh 1 million users jumping on with uh much more user adoptable uh practice like this how do you see security and Trust on that end because obviously now we are trusting the solvers a lot more uh which also could kind of like give a centralization in the market again because a faulty website is not as bad as a faulty solver let's say yeah agree and I I I do believe that it's a

very important process and uh to try to because right now like solver is like run by you know like private company and then yeah just like Web Two servers uh so if there's one day we can see uh they find a decentralized way to do it I think that would be uh that will be great and then it will be a uh even a big thing like compared to you know uh like layer two or something like that there will be maybe another Network or there might be a standalone chain just like I think flash they are doing the same thing uh a chain that is focusing on this and then try to prove that uh if you handle your transaction to me uh we will not do bad because we have this protocol we have this mechanism we have this node something like this yeah so uh

I think we will uh see that and in in the near future yeah that would be great for the user to yeah to use okay we'll just take the last two questions and that would be first yes okay thank you um maybe lending into the Privacy question um like optimization problems they really do fall into like really heavy computation uh for a lot of them so has there been any exploration around Edge compute and in essence over like large data sets for these optimizations is is that in your road map can we repeat a question again are you familiar with like the concept of

edge computation no sorry okay the the idea that you can send compute to data instead of sending data to compute um and these optimization algorithms are really heavy um so is there this idea that you can basically craft a compute job for these solvers and then say hey can you run this algorithm against your data um and then the solver can come back with the answer to that algorithm uh in a sense um if you're yeah I know if this if unfamiliar it's probably answered the question there but um yeah things like file coin um they have like huge data sets

um online um and it's you can't pull 10 pedabytes of data but you can send a compute job to 10 pedabytes um and when you have all this data in one spot um you might be easier to send a program that you know is going to be executed than just trusting that the solver is going to execute the one you want um but I think that answered my question so okay final question the gentleman at the back um so is there a plan for like an ongoing plan for fur combo um is that something you're still going to support and kind of in continue to integrate or yeah are you kind of deprecating that product could you repeat please um so

for a combo are you guys going to be continuing to support fur comone and integrating contining to integrate it or are you going to kind of deprecate that product oh uh yeah we we are still like updating just uh we have spend more time on building the p link uh this is the back end of the fu combo so once the F combo back end is like replaced to uh the protoc link uh the speed of like integrating more new uh protocol will be a lot easier for us and also the developer perfect thanks okay thank you so much thank you thank you so much everyone