DAOs, Network States, Popup Cities: The Web3 Social Dimension

Transcript

Okay. So, uh this is a panel that now you will see the graphic pretty soon about network states, Dows and pop-up cities. Uh we have great representatives from all these world. Um I going to leave the words to you guys. I don't know who wants to start. Raise your hands everybody. No one. You don't want to start. You start. You No, you start. Loren, so I called you before. So you start. Okay. >> Okay. What should I say about >> uh you can start saying about what is a cash apps and >> Okay.

Uh so yeah, I suppose half of you already knows uh Akasha Hub maybe. Oh wow. Oh wow. Okay. That I didn't Well, pretty impressive. Um, Akashab as you know is a space in Barcelona, a community. Uh, it's a way of living maybe or sharing uh resources and doing projects together. Uh, we have a co-working, we have a Fab Lab where are running projects. Uh we do events and workshops and classes all together all done by the community and paid by the community. We have two

warehouses in Barcelona and uh it's been running from since uh 2017 and now we are moving on to the next step but I pass you there. >> Thank you. Uh I'm here for the commons hub which is a place in lower Austria in the mountains right where the vianese planes end and uh the Alps start. So it's about 1 hour south of Vienna. We've been doing stuff there since uh 2020 but really since this year we're doing it professionally.

So it means a lot of hosting groups and events. We have 30 beds uh two big event halls and host conferences for up to 80 people. Uh that's what we've currently been doing. Uh so we are self-funded and uh reached financial uh sustainability this year I'd say. But the longer term goal is to to on the one hand go beyond that in terms of building an event campus. We're currently trying to buy a church and uh incorporate that into our event campus. And then the long-term goal is to go towards a valley of the commons. Find out how uh that would look

like. Uh so a valley or a village uh that hosts mostly uh internationals um digital nomads is also somewhat interacting with uh locals. Our village has been dying out for decades. Uh but there's still many people left and uh we don't want to antagonize them. Uh but rather build bridges and then also how to use this value to uh experiment with and uh promote the values uh of the commons and build actually working uh prototypes around commons.

>> Thank you. Hi everyone, my name is Chris Miller from Val. Um, we're an international network that's focused on building resilience for individuals and local communities. And we do that by focusing on infrastructure, energy infrastructure, water infrastructure, and food infrastructure specifically for uh emerging network states. Uh we've got people from across the world in our community and um we've built a kind of at the core of Vida is a kind of peer-to-peer learning network where we we share knowledge about resilience and and local sovereignty.

>> Thank you. >> Well, I'm very happy I form part of Nouns. Uh glad to be with these guys uh that are focused on interesting things in the world and we are more into vibe stuff. Uh um interesting we well people can determine nouns in their own way. Personally, I say that we're the cultural layer of Ethereum, like making crypto fun for people that are not very technical and are more interested in arts or doing good in some sense in the little dent in the world since I think we can all agree that it's a positive

impact and we need it and yeah, that's what I would say about nouns. [Music] I think that most of the people know me, but I'm the rooster with grieface. So yeah, that's it. No, no, I'm Cryptogallo, the creative manager and event manager of the Urb. community and also around the UR hub where we are here right now. >> Thank you guys for these amazing presentations. So I would like to ask to all of you I mean we have three main keywords in this panel right network states and pop-up cities or village or whatever call how you like uh we can add

maybe also the concept of hubs I will say so I don't know if everybody here is very clear what means a dowo what means a network state what means a pop-up city what means an hub and why is that for good I think it's important to explain that. So short, who wants to start with uh popup? No, network states maybe Chris or what about you, Alex? >> I'm wondering whether we really want to start with network states because that's going to get contentious and might eat up all the uh all the available time. Um

but well okay I take I take issue with the network state uh we talked about yesterday u that was uh some people from the hubs network uh talked about the the differences in approach of network state so camp with the network school and so on like immediately going for the grand goal of uh uh diplomatic recognition uh full uh sovereignty and so uh whereas the let's say the counter proposal that was around couple years ago was uh network societies uh which is more bottom up uh more of a bottom up approach and we figured that what we are

currently trying to do is establish some common ground or or see where we have shared values uh shared practices could develop shared tools uh and basically build our network of hubs from actually meaningful links between the different nodes that are the hubs. And then in the morning I had this uh thought that actually we're probably building pretty much the same just from different uh directions and um yeah the question is is it uh ex mutually exclusive? Is one going to succeed where the other is going to fail or are we going to meet in the middle?

Okay. Someone else wants to add uh anything else on on this topic. And why is that for good? I mean also with your lens with your projects maybe maybe you can you can explain better that you want to close on this. >> Doesn't have to be doesn't have to be for good. It can be >> happy. >> Okay. Okay. >> For bad. We are bad guys here. No no no. I think we are all good guys. Chris maybe you want to add something else on on this topic? Yeah. Um I would say that the angle that I come at this from is less about good and bad. It's more about like how do we respond to change in at this time in history. And the

pace of change is accelerating all the time. And so I would say a healthy response to change is to build resilience and build sovereignty which I view as a kind of uh in alignment with like autonomy, self autonomy, self- sovereignty. And that's at the core of the crypto ethos, the the kind of original Bitcoin cyher punk ethos is self-clustery. That's why the crypto ecosystem kind of that that was the foundation of the the ecosystem and I believe we can apply that those same principles and values to other systems not just finance and I think that's

that's a healthy response to change build self sovereignty at a local level at an individual level and uh build resilience because it's uh it's good for yourself and the local community I totally agree and I think I mean this is one of the the only reason why I'm here today because I I didn't make any money trading Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies but I mean yeah the you you're right the original ethos of um I think not just Bitcoin the crypto punks or the cipher punk philosophy but well I don't want to go too much on the philosophical liar because um I may say something that is not clear and it's a

debating on this but um Lorenzo um you are from Akasha hubs right so I think it's somehow related what we what they are saying or is different or how how will you describe what what do you mean for hubs and how this can be a good thing for civil society maybe for people for common people >> yeah okay I will start first with the topic actually you mentioned before the the uh value proposal of all these movement uh cyber punks, cipher, solar punks uh bitcoin has born and ethereum is born in

uh in an environment and many other projects in an environment where uh main focus is uh uh value proposition in society and fighting against something that is not working proper. in society and making unfair situation, creating unfair situation and building this together in a collaborative way in a new paradigm of collaboration in in a global scale. uh means a lot means a lot to to bring a new technology to substitute something that uh we think is not uh working properly as a centralized services and this all these movement uh generates some values

also in the uh way we can contribute in society in local situations. So many examples we had uh through times and many experiments we had through common hub a very beautiful project in uh which is liinal village as well many other projects TDS they are all working on um bringing all this uh knowledge and and value proposition into the local ecosystem and in the local community and trying to figure out a way to collaborate to uh have a identity, to have a um uh privacy or not privacy,

transparency collaboration. Uh all these values are raised and uh and brought in in small groups of people and they are experiments of some kind of network state or I would say network society. uh we want to build also pop-up city around there. It's still a early phase I think we have a lot of work to do. Uh we have a lot of thing to learn from all have been thought and written and studied about in the last decades and centuries actually. and and it's actually an effort of many fields

uh merging all the knowledge in many fields and and experimenting in the local situation. We are now and it's not working properly yet but there are many situation that are providing us of good example or initiative that inspire us and building something more and new project very interesting projects are coming from the web and many interesting projects are already on the on the um local uh tissue societal tissue. So it's um a moment where we can actually bridge them with different languages, different technology. It's

not easy but uh I think that's has to be done with respect of what's been done and and and what we can achieve and yeah this positivity and this mindset to of willing to change society um in a coherent way possibly. Amazing. I mean I subscribe everything you said and I really like your honest uh stance saying that of course is very very experimental right till today of course building on decades of and centuries are right of great thinkers and projects I really like also this kind of gloal approach right when you

explain like this very I would say global and fidgetital at the same time so from the digital global global decentralized blockchain web reward to the physical local hub or village or that's that's great that's amazing and of course it's not as you said easy but uh I think it's it's going and cryptogallo you I mean we are in a village today right we are in a pop-up city urbe pop-up village so I think it's up it's where we are right now right it's happening in this moment it's happening with us and thanks to URA as well. So what do you want to add on

this? >> No, I want to add like um my first when I first uh heard about network states this kind of stuff. Uh the first reaction for me that it's like the classic reaction that I have for for everything is this that oh this is another Uh so yeah uh but after after this uh first reaction I say okay let's try to deep dive and uh um the way the best way to understand the network states and uh how the hubs and villages and these communities can be integrated in that is understanding that we are not defined by boundaries actually no we are defined by boundaries it's a way like I'm Italian and Roman I

live inside the Roman world so it's a definition of myself and uh I can uh build up my personality on that. But it's not the only definition of that of my personality. The definition of my personality is also driven by values and uh this is not only that this is not something that you can uh um put inside the boundaries. Okay. So this is why I think that's network states and the network societies brings up. So also with the possibility to have uh fast and uh yes fast and instant connections with all the world we have the possibility to share values and um with all the world with all the people around the world. So

it's makes completely sense um what is the role of the hubs and the communities inside this is that we have to bring on the ground what we do online. Okay, because if not it makes not we are human beings we have to collaborate we have to create inside and it okay online is funny uh we can chat and we can meet call or something like that but uh it's actually way more funny to do it on on site so um I think that uh the mix of values uh the possibility to create all these network um these network societies and the the possibility to bring on the

ground this uh uh these values with hubs and villages and pop-up cities and all the events that we do. I think that is uh is the way that we have to go to to really create this network society because if not I I think it's if if it remains online it's not a real uh network uh it's not a real network of people. Uh so I think that all this is like the the idea that I I had in my mind about this this kind of things and so it's not a actually it's really really incredible and also I want to add like um we are not here because the Italian

government or the ro city of Rome gave us this place you're renting it um we are here because the network of all the people around the word of web three gave us like the uh trust also money thanks but uh most of that trust to build these things in row. So the network state and the network that we are part of believed in us and believed in the possibility to create something in Rome and uh this is uh interesting because we have no no relationship with this situations here or maybe not so well uh relationship and so yeah the

network the online network can also create something real in on site I can inspire other people and this is uh fantastic Yeah, I totally agree and uh I that's again what you are doing here with the URB hub with the URB village thanks to Aasha also as well. I mean this convergence this is another key word of today I will say convergence uh but I want to hear more from fatty and then from Felix because we were saying that uh this we have this sort of like from digital to physical from physical to digital global local global I think nouns from one side and common

sub they take they they are going to the toward the same direction But starting from like opposite part parts kind of they I mean I see that's my personal view common sub is very physical very local but it's spread all around the world right that's the vision nonso it's very global the materialized digital but is doing like very great as you explained before uh activities and impact on local uh places. So you can I mean how what you would like to add on this uh Fedy and then Felix I mean why your projects

or well you are in the governance in case of commons you are the founder so why this is your approach and um what kind of challenges or what kind of opportunities you see in in this approach you can start fatty. Well, yeah, as you mentioned, we started digital and now this 32 by 32 pixel art are are having impact IRL uh as they say in local communities all around the world that's mainly because how we were built and I would connect it sorry I would connect it to one of the three uh keywords which is DAO which I think is the organization layer over the

blockchain which may mainly We think about it as a big thing but a dowo can be also a small thing. We can have a dowo right here or even in your um local community or like uh in your building like let's water the plants and the medium to organize funds and allocation of those funds. it can run through a transparent way which is the uh built on on the technology of of blockchain which I would say yeah it's the medium of organizing digitally then for what it's being done that's entirely of how the organization or DAO in this case uh self um organizes what they decide it it's important for them for the individuals

being part of that community or that DAO and what they spend their time efforts to foster in whatever topic they want. So yeah, in the case of nouns, it we didn't have a topic per se. So we went the other route in the sense like we didn't focusing just in one thing which in my mind creates something magical that people that join now bring whatever uh topic they have in important for them. If it's puppies, uh, schools, whatever top code, art, you can find a space and create add nouns on top of it like um not just for that because then

there are also dows just for skaters or just for gamer esports gamers, not focused on a specific niche of the of the world. But at the end of the the organizational layer of the Dow that's the thing that I think the technology that brings us all here now in crypto and these uh values that you mentioned before now the the cipher punks uh values and the more ownership of your ideas and and and projects or stuff you want to build.

Um I think the agnosticism to the topic itself is something that we have in common definitely uh at least to some degree right uh usually so we have to pay our bills we don't have sponsors uh and uh we don't have uh external capital so far so we need revenue right from the start and that means we host uh also groups and projects that are not fully value aligned that say are just doing stuff that nice but not necessarily extremely interesting for what we actually want to do. But uh so that there is that somewhat agnosticism and also just the the material need to uh have revenue especially in the first year. Uh but

so this uh the the general agnosticism to projects that somewhat share the will to do good in some be it a digital global realm or a very specific do something good in my university or in my school or in my little town. Um I guess that that is something that uh is shared. uh we do come from completely different uh levels in a way very local very global but I think that a hub or hubs themselves are a meeting point of these different spheres in a way a hub is always local as it is at least place-based hubs right

they have their physical locality their immediate surroundings but at the same time they also are a link of that locality to a global to global to ideas which are generally more uh global uh and and travel faster than people. Um but also hubs or the hubs that we are talking about are usually a physical bridge to digital tools. Um on the whole hub topic, I remember something that you said to me at two or three at night in the hot tub and I was a bit too stone to answer back then, but it was beautiful.

um which was that I I will try to repeat it now. I'm more sober. Uh in a in a way what we are building is an infrastructure to educate uh people uh in matters that are relevant for a positive future. And that is what this network or this emerging network of hubs what what each of these hubs in a way carries in themselves already. and what we're now trying to to bring to the for maybe in a more coherent more structured way. Um and I think that that is something where where the the whole uh uh digital realm

and this whole new sphere that we are sharing in um also has a huge impact on and is what we are loosely building towards. Like we all see the old world failing worse and worse every day and just breaking apart without uh the new world yet being there. And this is where monsters live and we're facing these monsters every day. Uh but we're also growing stronger in our sense of uh what there is to be done.

>> Yeah, totally. And I mean it it it feels like a resistance movement like a reaction in a positive way to right what what's also happening to to our society but okay let's not be too much political because today otherwise is I want to stay more on the concrete uh uh things and uh Chris um I think with vow you you share and are trying to touch both points, right? The global digital, the local physical and uh and it's very interesting because uh you were talking uh with me about this

antifragile uh network state concept. Um can you tell us more about that like and more in general about the DAO if you if you if you want? >> Sure. Um yes. So our within Val, we don't believe that there will just be like one network state. We're not trying to build just one one like global network state. We believe in creating the conditions for antifragile network states to emerge. And what we mean by anti fragile network states is uh autonomous hubs all around the world that actually gain from the disorder and chaos that's

increasing in the world. Uh and fundamental within each of the these hubs are uh systems that can support the people that are that live there. You know like food systems, water systems and energy systems. So, we're really talking about the base layer of Maslo's hierarchy of needs. That's what we're really focused on where like how do you meet the needs of the people that are living in these local areas around the world and the DA itself is really a shelling point like it's a it's a meeting point internationally of all these groups and it's it's a locus where people can come together to learn about how to integrate these lo these systems and that can be as simple as like an

individual in a local area that wants to install solar on their roof or install a rainwater harvesting system or build like a mini food forest in their garden. It can be something as simple as that. That's like a first step. But then the next step is like, okay, I'm now more resilient. How can I become even more resilient? I need interdependence within my local community. I need to find networks in the area and build uh these uh relationships that can improve not just my resilience but my local resilience. And then so it's like going from there the individual to the local community and then using the DAL to come together in in an international way. Um, and final thing I'll say is like at the

heart of that is like peer-to-peer learning cuz everyone that goes through the process of becoming more resilient is building some knowledge and and experience that they can then share not necessarily in a formal way just like and and within VA we host a lot of online uh kind of meetups and and where people come together and and talk about what they've done to become more resilience resilient and share that knowledge uh with others in the in the community. >> Yeah, that's amazing. And that's it goes back to what Mateo was saying right about the centralized knowledge, the power of and the why is important for for us, why it's good basically the centralized knowledge. I totally agree.

Um I will maybe I don't know if you want to add anything specifically about this topic or about your specific projects. uh you can now or maybe we can open to some questions for the public go be before going lunch >> I would just like to say like on the debate of uh local through glo global there is not one that is the best I think it's a combination that has like if you take something from this like uh learnings of different approaches from different uh experiments h it it's yeah a combination not just focusing on local without like igno ignoring the the global and not just focusing on global uh with with ignoring the local. No, a

combination of it definitely sums more and pushes the humanity forward in my opinion uh because that's how we advance no trying to collaborate sums more than the individual parts that uh support or give to the whatever goal you're you're building. Yeah, collaboration is the best thing. So always be open to it. >> Um just a closing note uh on my side. Um I would like to invite everybody if you are interested in uh in the hubs and local uh impacts and how we can connect to each other, how we can do more things. I would like to invite you on

Tuesday. Is it Tuesday? Uh 5:00 p.m. right the 14th. uh will be here as well talking about uh this coalition of spaces that we are trying to help each other and figure out which way we can actually improve our way of impacting the local uh through uh shared knowledge and tools. Uh so this project is called um hubs network and we are just starting with a few hubs also around and yeah if you want to come you're more than welcome.

>> Thank you. Thank you. >> Wait someone with some question. Yes. Oh my god so many questions. All right. Okay. Uh, okay. You're closer. So, okay. Let's go. >> I'm aware we said no political things, but I think that things are political now and has to be. Um, I I I don't think that Balaj's experiment as this sort of physical state will will maybe it will last. it will last because

it becomes useful to some other partnering countries. So if a network state creates wealth for its commercial partners or becomes a tax exempt paradise something like that then maybe we will have network states but I like uh Philix idea of talking about network societies more. So we have this international system right now that is failing because UN decisions are not followed by anyone. Um so recognition or nonrecognition is up in the air. Um and sadly what our minister Tayani uh said that international law is works sometimes is actually true because it's

a maragnum is a pirate sea everyone does what it pleases. So um states having one thing and they have the use of force against us and against communities that emerge. What is the piece of uh civil law or international law that you would say we can build on to and it also can be human rights declaration etc that you can build on um to foster network societies at a recognition level. Is it property?

Is it tokenization of property? Like sometimes you know when you want to avoid a big corporation from owning a land you fractionalize every square meter and you sell it to the the residents so that they have to go through a thousand different trials with each single owner. So this is a way that so what is the piece of law that we currently have to build network societies or are we talking like we don't care about the fiat system we don't care about traditional law systems what's your take >> um yeah from my perspective the the process of building network states is

not It's an iterative process that is going to take many years and from uh a lot of the critiques of the network state concept uh I I think that particularly this concept of exit I think that's the number one uh criticism of network states that this is an exit from the social contract by essentially wealthy uh elites and therefore or it's bad. And and uh for me the concept of exit is the most important concept at this moment in history. Uh because there there are a

lot of signs that the the status quo and states in the current form may not be able to sustain in their current form into the uh into the future. And so we face a a potential where we can uh end up in a more totalitarian uh kind of situation or in a full-blown kind of chaotic collapse situation. And I think in those in in in that future questions around like law and and and so for forth in terms of relationships with the existing state become less important than questions like okay what like resilience and that's the angle that I I

come at this this question from. So I think exit is a good thing. I don't think it just has to be for the wealthy elites. I think it can be for everyone if we create the the robust kind of tools, infrastructure and uh collective will to make that that leap. uh and it will and can in uh the final thing I'll add in in Balaji's original concept around this like he's talking about diplomatic recognition as a as a not necessarily as something that states would want to give but it's because of the scale and the they don't have they don't have any choice at that stage and that uh may seem only possible in the

dreams of wealthy wealthy elites But I take a a different view on that. I strongly disagree. I I strongly disagree that anyone but superw wealthy elites will ever be able to gain uh diplomatic recognition and full uh sovereignty for their network states which will be tax havens of course and this is the very reason they will get this recognition pos. It's quite possible that they will I mean they're already doing this with special economic zones and whatnot and all the tax havens that exist in the world. And why not create new ones? Uh if uh it's okay to just uh bomb Gaza to and uh push out all the population and build

your tax haven there, why not do it somewhere else? uh but I seriously doubt and I just call it completely impossible uh to get that on a mass basis for people that are not super wealthy and thus cannot offer these benefits for decision makers in states. So I think that for the non uh welloff we will have to continue dealing with uh failing states and they are more and more failing in their core functions. Uh but we will have to find ways to deal with that and I've thought about it plenty. I've thought about the uh problem of uh uh of legal violence that the state the

monopoly on legal violence the state still holds. And I've never come to any other conclusion than to stay out of their way as far as possible because we're not uh and we cannot meet organized armies at all. Like any path there even if the state is failing is completely futile and dangerous. So that's how far I got is as far as anyhow possible build your uh build your little islands of resilience. Agreed. Absolutely. and uh food, water and electricity is what I'm thinking about for the value of the commons as the first goal. Absolutely. Uh but real sovereignty from uh the acclaimed

uh monopoly on the legal force use of violence, I don't see that anywhere within reach. And lastly on the question on on what laws I think for at least for a time being and for the hubs and for this uh decade freedom of movement in the European Union is by far the most important law. >> Amazing. Amazing. Uh we have Do you want to add anything else or we have another question otherwise? Yeah, we go with you Lorenzo. Okay.

Thank you guys for the panel. I have two questions really. The second one one maybe it's easier than the first one. So um you have mentioned like sustainability in terms of how this can be run in the long run. So um maybe some of you have already some sustainability plans in place. The thing is that uh it these things should run like autonomously without always the need of uh relying on external sponsors like Leia choose Ethereum Foundation and so on. So what are your plans on that and and al also because each of you are running different things so I'm curious about the differences and so on. The second question is related to the

balaji's work basically you were mentioning this in the last answer but um is it just autotopistic uh how do you think it what is the like concrete part that you think okay this thing is achievable let's say because you guys are running it maybe based on some of the things that he was saying some years ago um I'm trying to say the difference between just the theoretical ical part and the practice but again it was basically related to what you guys was just saying. So if you want to elaborate more on that.

What was the first question? There is not no I don't know um I think that's uh sustainability is um I don't know um you can see in different ways um like hubs running apps uh like co-working space I think it's not sustainable also for big companies like talent garden that we have here in in Italy actually it's not uh they are running out of money and they are failing the company uh how they how they succeeded like this until now they have done rounds and rounds of fundraising.

So uh the thing is like that um if you put values before uh the money the money is the like uh the money is not something that you can uh reach easily and also um if you put values you also restrict your boundaries of people that can come inside because of course they have to share the same value. uh so um of course we have to reach sustainability but I think that in the first years of uh running a hub running a co-work space running a community and everything there should be and there is actually uh the

sustain of the ecosystem that wants that to happen because if not there is no reason to do that um so yeah I think that's um the sustainability has to come slowly uh in years because they are longlasting projects and uh of course if there is not the sustain of the ecosystem and everything means that the project is not valuable or maybe it's not valuable for the ecosystem and is that is okay that is not a problem um so yeah uh I think that uh uh it's a goal that we have to reach but is not the first goal that we have to put because if not we don't we don't even reach that goal um because

it's very very sophisticated and particular the things that we do uh because if I want to do like a uh co-working hub and all around Italy I will do the same things that I that talent garden has done and uh that's a commercial thing so it's a completely different and yes we have to go to it we have a last question then I we we you want to elaborate more what he asked maybe or we can >> trust I will say >> just quick we are hungry >> quick answer um I already said we are somewhat sustainable ourselves which can

only be because uh me and my brother own the building so we don't have to pay rent in the first years and I agree you cannot be uh sustainable right out of the box you need some sort of sponsorship be it uh uh a land owner that gives you the the space or um a layout one or two that uh supports you in the first years. Absolutely agreed. It's just that the long-term uh has to be financial sustainability by producing value that can be exchanged for money and uh I would also say on sponsorship like we want to see a thousand hubs or something even more. The first 10 are going to get a lot of sponsorship. the

next hundred are going to get some sponsorship and then it's not a new thing anymore, not so shiny and uh it's going to be less and less easy to get sponsorships uh for these new hubs. So either they out of the box are somewhat sustainable or it becomes a business model that can take loans or like investments uh properly or we have a network that helps set up new spaces. >> Yeah. On the other side, we also uh see that the first hubs are the ones that had to reinvent everything and figure out a way to to run and to uh get resources and to manage people volunteering uh all the structure infrastructure the

new model has to be done. So the first hubs has to work a lot and then uh you get it gets more easy as well. So possibly we are going to be less dependent on on the funding uh external funding and we can figure out a business model for each space and and probably sharing experience it means a lot. Uh I think uh the way to go is hybrid. Um true if a company has money to invest in you why you are not the company then so let's be a company to invest their money into the the hub possibly uh we are uh value first initiative that can uh

redirect all the gain into into yeah reinvest it in in the community and the in the space possibly is going to be that direction at least that's my aim mean you want reply or we have a last question is uh just a yes or no type of question. So very >> so great project really cool and I think the big problem is educating the young people. So I just wondered if you have in your strategy to work with governments to educate young children for example and to work with universities are you creating like learn to earn or are you doing something to

advertise to to teach people how good what you're do the things that you're doing because there's probably millions of people that would love to join but they don't even know how do you find how do you connect how do you >> I think we are lacking >> a bit more the yes or no I guess but let's give it >> yes do two both uh we are lacking on on funding to get those initiative and actually the communication can be d done much more uh efficiently uh we are not main mainly we are not connecting much with the exterior world is like a bubble so we are talking to each other and what we have to learn is to be able to communicate outside and be seen from outside and understand what you have to

show out out in order to be uh understood. >> Okay. Um we host a lot of students uh their university classes. We try to they have their own program usually but then we do have some influence by showing them what we do. Usually I ask them at the first day if it's okay to speak like five minutes to them uh to pitch what we're doing. And I was just thinking our uh uh Virgin uh hubs network. We talked about potentially going for EU funding which needs u several actors and needs a certain scope to be uh recognized as such but this could actually be something uh to pitch to EU bodies actually uh producing uh uh content >> may

>> let's talk about that over lunch. Yeah, >> I think yes. All right, next question. Thank you. >> Thank you guys. Thank you everybody. Lorenzo Felix Chris Patty Krypto >> and thank you to host us. >> Yes.