The Daily Gwei Drive Thru #8 with Anthony Sassano and Eric Conner | ETH to $20k, Spot ETH ETF & more

Transcript

hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the delu drive-through I'm your host Anthony Sano and I'm here with Eric Connor today to talk about all things ethereum hey Eric how you going yo we back we back we back four months later yeah exactly I had someone comment on the I tweeted like two days ago I was doing this with you and someone commented like they liked the randomness and not knowing when we're gonna do this which is kind of funny but yeah we're definitely random at it but hey we're still going we haven't fully Ru pulled yet yeah yeah exactly and and I think like we do these episodes probably at like the most relevant and right times to do them uh you know I did tease on Twitter that we'd be talking or foraster actually that we we'd be talking about kind of our price target for eth this

cycle and how we kind of arrived at that number and I remember doing these episodes with like uh DC investor and um Cyrus uni uh back in the day like on bankless like back last cycle and like going back and rewatching that was hilarious because like you were really bearish I guess compared to us you were saying 2500 right and then like DC I remember was like super bullish it was like 10K Plus or something and like it it just landed in like the middle I guess at like 5K but I think that this time around we have something different we have the ETFs right like and I think that's going to play a huge part in how this cycle plays out has already played a huge part in it and I think that that's the first thing I wanted to talk

about today with regards to kind of this meme of the fouryear cycle right and I think that with actually broken out of that at this point like BTC hit like 50k today I mean for those of you who listening listening to this we're recording this on like the what's my 13th uh the Tuesday and this is probably going to go out on the Saturday so it's probably going to be a few days but BTC hit 50k today and I think that that has broken like the traditional fouryear cycle it's accelerated it by at least 3 to 6 months or something uh because usually you would wait until like the harving and then the harving would happen and then BTC would go up like after that and then it would hit all-time Highs but it kind of feels like the momentum right now means that we

could see alltime highs in Q2 like that's how I mean frothy things are and and the thing is I think it's a kind of Justified froth to an extent because we were just discussing this a little bit off off air uh basically people just completely misread the ETF stuff like I think a lot of Crypton natives just do not understand how tradire works and do not understand how ETFs work and they figured that oh it'll be sell the news event which I guess it was for a little bit of time but you know it's a sell the news event grayscale has like these gptc outflows whatever and so on so forth and then the reality was that these atfs that went live are some of the biggest ATF launches in ATF history right like in terms of the volumes that they've brought in so I think yeah there's just

like been a massive amount of people sidelined and now the fomo is really kicking in since BTC has gone to 50K eth is is moving as well of course it's lagged a little bit but we we'll get into that but yeah I mean Eric I've mentioned this tons of times when we've done podcast before but you have the you know typical tradire background before you got into crypto you're definitely more plugged into that world than most I would would think well like what's your view on on all of that like did people you know severely underestimate things like I kind of assume they did yeah no it's funny to even have this conversation going back I mean gosh what six years now if you go back to like Into The Ether episodes where we were kind of predicting this would happen around now and I think I think that

people what people miss most and I agree with you I think a shockingly amount large amount of people are sidelined right now like even like kind of Hardcore crypto people on Twitter I just get the vibe that they're not like % in maybe they're like 30% not their 100% allocation and I think where people fumbled this bag was everyone in crypto is used to like the typical memes of you know sell the news buy the rumor sell the news and like that just becomes this Twitter narrative right and like when Twitter narratives take off in crypto in like a small community like we have or like I would say we had um sure that like that's what everybody starts buying into right like this starts snowballing

and it's like you see it inar and bull cycles and all the emotion of crypto Twitter and just in the graphs everything snowballs and people start believing it's almost self-fulfilling right so everyone was like oh it's clearly a sell the news event and that was self-fulfilling for like three weeks but I was kind of hammering it on Twitter kind of joking about it like oh great you guys are smart for like a couple weeks but you're GNA be wrong and the reason they're wrong is we just invited a whole new audience of people on Capital into the crypto markets with this ETF stuff right we we've and you and I have hit on this so much in the pass it's like we're comfortable investing in coinbase we're comfortable self- cusing our own wallets we're comfortable on Unis Swap and onboarding off coinbase Union SW and doing all this

stuff a lot of people either want their financial investor to tell them it's now safe to buy crypto or they want to buy it through erade or Fidelity or whatever it might be and ETFs open that up right and a lot of people have 401K funds that they weren't able to buy crypto with I mean you could you could buy like Futures and stuff but in general people were kind of waiting like I know know we don't like this in crypto but they're kind of waiting for this like stamp of approval from like higher beings in the financial world right and I think people just grossly underestimate how much buying power is there now we've tapped into this TR I mean it's trillions of dollars with the capital that we had previously tapped into that can be like buying now and I think it was no

coincidence we're recording this on my Monday at 8:30 p.m. but like when the markets open for for me this morning at you know 6:30 a.m. here on the on the west coast all of a sudden Bitcoin and East took off right and like Bitcoin LED but like there's no coincidence that the bidding is happening now during Market hours which is kind of funny like we're kind of dead now like in the middle of the night us time and on the weekends um there's a lot of money trickling in now you know a lot of Institutions I think are like getting more in now and stuff because they're seeing all this happen but I think where the crypto Community missed is like our little memes and our little Echo chamber of Twitter and Al faras that stuff is kind of being overtaken by

the bigger allocations of funds like whether it's the institutions or just the combined capital of retail normies kind of buying in their 401ks or buying in their brokerage portfolios now and that stuff adds up right and like can you imagine these guys telling their friends and neighbors like yeah I bought the Bitcoin ETF like today and it's up 7% I mean 7% to these people was like crazy and I don't mean like these people but it is like Normy Finance right like 7 to 10% is like what you kind of hope for in the entire year and I think we're going to see that snowball like that access to crypto now is going to be a total GameChanger for people it it's funny because like the people who have the most money are like the most

conservative right like they're the ones who want to protect their Capital but that's where a lot of the wealth is is concentrated and as you said these people don't move unless their financial advisor tells them to move especially into things that are considered super risky like crypto assets which is hilarious to me because Bitcoin is worth a trillion dollars right now right it's a trillion dollar market cap like it's bigger than most stocks in terms of market cap so for people to kind of still think that Bitcoin is risky is more of a perception thing and that's what the ETFs have really done is has changed the perception around BTC and in the future it's going to change it around eth as well where it's a where people go oh wow okay black rock is putting their weight behind this thing you know it must be legit right it must

be here to stay I got to get in and as you said like because crypto still moves uh you know pretty pretty uh I guess like violently or is pretty volatile even BTC and eth this this is again a selling point for people that have never had exposure before because they're suddenly looking at this asset that they bought you know as you said they're going up a few percentage points uh in in a day and they're like oh my god wellow what the hell like what the hell's going on right so it is a kind of self-fulfilling thing and I think that BTC obviously has been has gotten such a bid from it I mean if you go back to June last year when Black Rock first filed for it like BTC was at 25k so if you bought then and then just held for

last like six seven months or whatever it is you'd be up like double your money on the safest asset in crypto arguably right uh and and you'd be up on on E you be up on a lot a lot of things to be honest but as you said like it just seems like so many crypto natives are so sidelined right now they're like hoping that we're going up they're like oh no this is going to you know sell back down BTC is going to 35k and then I'll buy there it's like guys like the the ETFs they're not going to they're not waiting for this they're passively flow passive flow Vehicles right like they're not going to wait to buy the dip and things like that like the Crypton native are they basically going to be like okay well I'm allocating 1% of my portfolio

to this BTC ETF right now and 1% of the money that's in in try uh that the Boomers have especially is a lot of money people don't realize that it's a lot of money so that alone will just kind of keep the you know keep the price kind of up and keep keep things going uh very nicely and I think that we're just like generally entering uh you know the I guess soon to be kind of frothy phase of the bull market the normal bull market that we see in crypto so it's going to be very interesting to see what the dynamic is like because you know BDC has its ETF as I said before I I I you know it's going to get its ETF relatively soon I do believe it's actually going to happen in May to be honest like May 2030 is that first

deadline there we can touch on that in the SEC but it's going to be interesting to see what happens to the other assets cuz people are already fading the other assets saying oh none of this is going to trickle down because you know the Boomers can't access these assets they can only buy BTC and then eth it's like what do you mean like who do you think owns all the BTC and ether right now it's the crypto Natives and what do you think they're going to do when they start suddenly come into this new money they're going to go down the risk curve like they typically do so people kind of trying to fade the other things as well it's just hilarious to me cuz it's like BTC Max is just like yelling oh it's just BTC you know just buy it's like yeah okay maybe that works over over the

long term but people are still going to gamble people are still going to speculate like crypto natives are still crypto Natives and we we've even been seeing this play out over just the last few months a lot of people who were in BTC made a lot of money uh because that of the ATF kind of um speculation and they've rolled that into other things so I I I think that people really need to be aware of the fact that there's always going to be that pool of money it's called I guess it's that hot ball of money as they call it that's just still going to rotate through things um but over the longer term obviously like you're not going to keep most of your portfolio in these things right you keep it in the safer assets or at least the assets that you consider to be safer um

but that's my kind of General view on things yeah I think one important thing that you said is like a lot of the financial wealth especially in like the boomer generation or just even in like our eration I don't think much of that is allocated to crypto at all like I have some like non- crypto family and friends that do have like a decent crypto allocation now but even that's like I don't know 5% of their total portfolio and I have a lot of people that have said to me oh yeah like my financial advisor doesn't recommend it yet but how much would you recommend investing and they still like 0% but they want to like get to five to 10% of B like I think people don't realize how underinvested people really are to this

asset class when you look at like the world as a whole um yeah like a lot of us might be like mentally ill and have 100% of our net worth in crypto but like that's not the normal person out there right and I think this ETF is like this stamp of legitimacy to that um and I think what's going to be interesting is will be the E I agree with you I think eth will get approved um I first of all like Larry Fink behind it he's like 564-1 in ETF approvals like everybody like uh it like Franklin Templeton or whatever filed for it today like there's a lot of reputable institutions now where I think this starts to get really interesting is are we so there's two

parts of this I want to talk about your part about like this trickling down which I agree with you but first like are we kind of drawing a Line in the Sand of ETF approved crypto assets and let's say that's Bitcoin and eth there's a clear line not just in like market cap at that point but just in like globally accepted it like I don't want to say like the government has to give it stamp of approval but I think it play it like speaks to Bitcoin in the East like drive to become money and become decentralized and have smaller blocks and like don't become centralized right and truly become money and have a low issuance policy or even a deflationary policy

like I think all of this is important and I don't think there's a single crypto that will ever exist in the future this isn't being an eth maxi but like that will exist that will have the same kind of reputation and traits as Bitcoin and Ewood to that point and that's not to say like another crypto is not going to get an ETF approval but I think in the short term Bitcoin and ETF and then there's going to be this line drawn to other assets and that doesn't mean like those assets aren't going to go up but like when people look at those two they're going to think of them in the same league and like that's important for eth right and like is why like as a community we've been hitting on like decentralization and money aspects and money traits and like low inflation and like sound monetary policy

like those things are all paying off right and so I'm with you I think it will come in May and if it does that's a very interesting Dynamic now for the crypto community and of course will then flow down now like if East starts getting a bid like BTC is I mean that's going to get interesting right because we all know like the perspective of oh Bitcoin is 60,000 and eth is only 2600 like normies kind of think like this right they don't think about market cap oh it's cheaper it could go up more and these are like the two assets they're looking at that gap's going to start to close in my opinion right just because of those like very simple things like I'm I've been a proponent that we should a thousand to one split E I know it's

gonna like wreck smart contracts we don't actually do it but if e went down to like $2 doll tomorrow of the same market cap it would get bit up like crazy that's just how people think so now you kind of got this it's like newer assets that's approved for ETF it's not just Bitcoin anymore kind of the shiny new toy for people to them it's quote unquote cheaper I guess from a market perspect market caps perspective it is I mean if you get that bid on eth I things could get crazy right um I don't I don't want to go like two nuts with my predictions I know I was under last but to me 20K seems very like achievable I put out a tweet a couple weeks ago if you take btc's multip I always think East like one cycle behind every cycle year multiplier from bottom Top's going

to get less right because it's harder to move up with market cap if you take btc's multiplier from last cycle I think it was 22x which would put I think e bottom at 890 it puts us at like I think right below 20K like 19,300 or something um and blow through and I know people think 50k 100K who knows I shoot on the downside usually I mean 20K would be great and then that's a mem line to push us through but I think just that like that line that could get drawn in the sand for crypto is very interesting um will money flow down then of course right we always see that and like I don't think the fund really starts to alltime Highs are blown through I know this this like is the start of a bull market but like the real fun of a bull

market is eth goes past 4900 and you know BTC goes past 69,000 and we're in price Discovery and then just gets crazy I mean you don't know where it's going random shitcoins are pumping 300% on the day like that's when it gets fun but I'm curious your thoughts like do you see that same kind of line being drawn like after eth gets approved for the next few years like do you think those are just going to be the two like to you how important is that from like a money flow bid and that kind of perspective from investors yeah I mean I think even outside of like the ETFs the line has been drawn for a long time right because if you look at BTC and eat's combined

market cap right now if I'm going to coin Gecko and I look at it it's like 1.3 trillion right the total market cap is 1 point or 2 trillion takeaway stable coins 1.8 so you have $500 billion in like other assets most of that is concentrated in things like B&B and xrp which is just crazy to me and a few others there but if you actually look at you were talking about market caps if you actually look at the long taale of crypto assets like I'm talking about things that are outside of the top 10 they're all under $10 billion market cap right they are all extremely small compared to bit that's 1% of bitcoin's market cap by the way for for people kind of tracking it home that's 1% a $10 billion market cap is 1% um of of eth it's you know it's I guess like uh what

is it 4 5% or something like that right I'm just doing rough math at the top of my head these things are incredibly small compared to Ethan BTC so it does as you said take a lot more money to move Ethan BTC and a lot less money to move other things does that mean these other things are going to be good long-term Investments no because it works both ways like if these things are just going up because it's a crypto bull market and everything's pumping then they're going to be the first things that get sold off once the the bare Market HS cuz no one actually wants to hold them they're just gambling on them basically right so uh again that that line on the sand has been drawn I think before the ETFs and I think the ETFs are just going to exacerbate that because as

I said before the ETFs are a passive vehicle right there's going to be a lot of people just putting money in like every paycheck as part of their retirement account right um every paycheck going in there passively over time they're not going to wait to try and like time the crypto Cycles like crypto natives have traditionally done they they're definitely just going to be like this passive buyer of these assets and that again is going to uh concentrate a lot more market cap I believe in BTC uh and eth uh and a lot less in these other things uh you know outside of bull markets obviously like as you said like once we get past alltime high things get really crazy everything just starts going up you know indiscriminately but I'm looking at it from like a I don't know if I was to take a 5-year window that's what I'm

kind of looking at it in I'm not looking at it in a kind of oneyear BU Peak bull market window or six to 12 months Peak bull market window because if you look at that then of course you can go a do I performed everything like yeah for like three months right like doesn't count because if you caught the bottom and top good on you but most people didn't so I think I look at it from like a fiveyear window and I'm like okay what's Ethan BTC going to be like in five years in terms of market cap what these other things going to be like and how have they performed against BTC and E and I think their performance is going to get a lot worse of over these kind of longer periods because of those those ETFs bringing in that money and as you said

it's a fresh untapped pool of money like almost all of this money has never touched crypto before I would I would wager right so it's definitely a fresh untapped pool and I think we needed it honestly to to the next level because I feel like we had we hadn't tapped everything but like a lot of the money that was coming into crypto I think came in in 2020 2021 from like the normal retail users already especially in places like the US and Europe where they already had easy access to this stuff uh and we kind of needed this next step in order to get us to to the next level here in order to get these market caps into the trillions of dollars but as you said earlier we we were talking about this a long time ago on the into the E episodes I mean I'd love to find the

episode where I do distinctly remember you saying or talking about ETF saying that you don't don't expect it to happen for a while but eventually it will happen and we're basically there right now right like we're basically kind of uh there in 2024 which did take a while but we're there now it kind of accelerates from here uh and I guess like the last thing on the ETF stuff as well before we move on to how we get to 20K e this cycle so uh is that people are kind of meing that these other assets are going to get ETFs like maybe eventually they do but the timeline for this happening is like from what I've seen minimum 3 years minimum 3 years for any other to even think about getting an ATF and it's not because these other assets you know as Securities or the S

is trying to label them as Securities it's not because we're eigh Maxes and we think that all the other assets are trash it's the simple reason that there is a very defined path to getting an ATF you have to have a CME Futures market like that's like literally the bare minimum there are no other CMA Futures markets except betc and E right now for crypto assets as far as I know I don't think there are so until you actually see another asset get that Futures Market its chances of getting an ATF is 0% and then once they actually get that market you need to White like like 2 three years before the Seca would be comfortable actually approving these things so again that's why I say minimum 3 years before you see any of the other assets uh so Ethan BTC will stand alone here do I like that that's the case uh I

mean from a kind of like competition perspective not necessarily but at the same time like I'm you know I can't control this it's not me it's it's the way these things work right it's the way tradire works and honestly if I'm putting my kind of I guess biased hat on here I don't I I wouldn't want to be putting dog assets in front of like people that have like retirement accounts and they're putting them into like you know what I mean like there is some level of kind of responsibility I think as well uh of of kind of I wouldn't say protecting people from themselves but man like the amount of like low education that would exist and if you start put giving legitimacy to these assets that really like a lot of them are just borderline scams to me and like they borderline not not great from

a not just investment perspective but just from a a kind of like um perspective of of this space getting like a bad name as it usually does but at the end of the day people can inv invest in whatever they want they still have access to these assets on other platforms if they really want to buy them uh but yeah it's kind of a thing where that's how the SEC is going to be thinking about it that's how the Regulators are going to be thinking about it as well uh and that's that's the kind of final thing on that one but um you know unless you have anything left to add on the ATF stuff I want to get into how eth is going to 20K because I think people are like they hear this number and they're like okay 20k that's like this Moon math but like how are we

getting there so if you want to move on to that we can yeah sounds good to me I think the only thing I'll say on that is like I agree like we're not I would never cheer for an ETF for ction for another crypto but I do think it's important that the process is kind of like followed and I I think even though maybe the SEC is frustrating and these approvals have been frustrating at the same time like it seems like the proper path like for Bitcoin to just recently get one for E to be next there be like a little break and let's like see who maybe is up next legitimacy wise but like it kind of seems like it's playing out fine to me so far yeah yeah exactly and the funny thing is some people might be uh disappointed that xrp might be the

next one to get an ETF simply because they won a court case against the SEC right so some people might be just like be careful what you wish for I mean unless you're holding xrp then you're going to be happy but regardless of that so how how are we getting to 20K so I want to make clear that my kind of quote unquote official prediction for this cycle is like 15 to 20K like I don't know if we're going to get to 20K like as you said there are these kind of like diminishing returns with the multipliers and stuff like that and then if everyone's expecting 20K right it might just kind of settle at 15K because everyone's expecting it and so on and so forth ETFs throw a wrench into this though like we don't know how that's going to act of course but yeah I do

think that its path to like 15 to 20K is pretty pretty clear from here for a number of different reasons and I think the obvious most the most obvious reason is obviously the ETF like if you believe the E atfs are going to get approved this year particularly in May which is the first deadlines our first final deadlines I should say then that is a huge Catalyst and we probably could even be up at like 4K or something by the time that happens right similar to what happened with BTC where the market just basically priced it in we come down a bit after that and then we can kind of continue up to alltime high sort of thing you know it could play out in a similar way but that's like the the the I think the the biggest Catalyst to be honest like I can't think of anything

bigger than that in terms of just bringing in fresh new money to get us to those levels but then there are so many other things that are going on within crypto that crypto native things ethereum native things right there's the reaking thing happening which we've never had before like this is brand new stuff right now right there's the fact that it continues to be deflationary there's the fact that like a lot of the execution risk of ethereum is basic basically gone CU we did the merge right we did it in a bare Market we got staking withdrawals done and now way more people are staking now because of reaking and and and and things like that right we have a very defined ethereum road map at this point which is very uh which is something that the ETF issuers can actually break down for their

clients and say Hey you know ethereum has this kind of like road map it's executing on it blah blah blah so on and so forth we have all these kind of material here we have the layer twos that are now available for people to use um and we're improving them all the time right then they've got direct Integrations with centralized exchangers all these new users are going to be funnel into things like bass because coinbase has a vested interest in Bas doing well right they're going to be funnel into arbitrum and they're going and and polygon all these other L2 ecosystems they're going to be funnel into there instead of L1 main net again right and they're not going to have to pay the the high fees they can enjoy the the cheaper fees there so that obviously reinforces ether's money gets eth into more people's hands because eth is used

to pay the little fees on the network it's used as money on the network so on and so forth so there are all the just these massive catalysts that we haven't had before really they're kind of brand especially reaking like reaking and the ETFs I think are the two main ones cuz they're the brand new ones that haven't happened before so from a fundamental perspective it's very strong but then a narrative perspective as well it's very strong right because the narrative is typically more powerful than the reality over the short to medium term especially during crypto bll markets where people start kind of Shilling these things as being like the thing the Silver Bullets right the things that going to solve everything you know it's going to be amazing and awesome so on and so forth and it's not until the bare Market that you see the reality kind of set in so I

think that it's going to be a massive driver going forward uh for for for eth value acral and I also think that we're going to see a trend start soon and I put a tweet out about this um with projects airdropping their tokens to eat stakers right and we already have a lot of uh liquid reaking projects that have confirmed that they're doing tokens uh ethery puffer and swell uh the ones at top off the top of my head uh they have already confirmed that they're doing tokens they've got airdrop um or kind of like points farming thing going on right now and they liquid rest staking protocols which means that they're going to air drop to East stakers that Stak with them and then you know they have a choice to air drop to solo stakers as well which I think that they might so

there's going to be a lot of kind of air drops going towards eth stakers which is going to increase the demand for eth because you got you have to obviously purchase eth in order to stake it right so there's just all these kind of fly will effect drivers happening that are all going to feed off of each other and then if we're in a crypto bull market these air drops are end are going to be end up be worth a lot right because there's a lot of capital ready to just bid these things and to just kind of keep the market caps high from from the kind of fomo uh and then those air drops end up being huge absolutely massive and that brings in more Capital so like I guess like the point is is that there is just so many demand drivers on eth right

now and there's not that much eth on the market especially because we're we're deflationary too so there's just less and less eth on the market people like to use eth as a store of value and as a money we're going to have the fresh Capital coming in from the ETFs like I'm actually amazed that eth is still at whatever it is 2650 right now like I actually think that it's crazy that eth is this low and we're actually going to talk about eth BTC as well after I get your thoughts on E8 USD but that's kind of my view on the path to 15 to 20K I think obviously you probably have like a similar view here as well um on on on all of this but I'd love to get your kind of take on that side of things yeah I I honestly think we're about to see a

slingshot for many reasons I think people had been kind of harping on the wrong narratives out there in the crypto Community for the last few months and I I think I want to call this bull market the the theme is the Larry Fink Supply shrink so so basically you hit on most of that right but Larry f that's great I love that Larry Fring Supply that should be a meme on on Twitter or something yeah let's meme that up I want to make a couple images I'll put them out there but you know we got Larry thinkink on the ETF side and all the Trad Five Guys trying to buy up eth and like one thing I think I saw I think Black Rock alone owns like and their ETF owns like 1% of all BTC I think like one to three% of all BTC

think yeah it was almost like 300,000 BTC or something he's already in the atfs like something crazy right right so like think about that like that's eth that potentially is going to get swallowed up by ETF and that's growing every day um and then to your points with like the reaking and just staking in general and especially if air drops start happening in stakers people want to stake more like and you have deflationary eth which is happening already like early in the be bull market imagine like if all this air drop farming starts happening and East going up like East going to be very deflationary the supply shrink is crazy and you add this Demand on the ETF side and just General bll market side I mean I it's just like waiting to be lit on fire right and I know 20K maybe sounds

crazy to people but at the same time that's less than 10x from here right um and we've already been what are we already up from bottom we already up 3x from bottom yeah about 3x yeah yeah 3X I think over 3x now 880 I think was the bottom yeah so we start with 3x yeah yeah I mean it's less than 10x to go to 20K and I know like we said I be very clear as market cap gets bigger it's harder to do a 10x right we're no longer at 80 bucks and that's only 800 fre e but you know I I think with all these things about to happen it doesn't seem too hard to me I mean 10K is less than 4X from here right so I mean we're we're not far from these numbers even

though they sound huge and I think the Tailwinds and the narratives that are about to take place for eth I mean like I said Larry thinks Supply strength like you can buy these things this and people are going to start thinking oh man East like deflationary and there's reaking and people are staking and locking things up for air drops and ETF demand and then it starts clicking in people's head right and I think we always see this early in bu Cycles this kind of like narrative Focus from most of crypto Twitter around fast large block blockchains and like we've been through this three or four times right I don't even want to get into names and blah blah blah like we've had this conversation so many times but this is always like the n early on like low fees fast blockchains and then people start

to kind of like think okay what's like the long-term investment thesis here right like what what's the inflation rate of this asset do I really like need a lot of it to use this network like is it inflationary is it deflationary is it a money is it not does it have an ETF does it not like all these things start to add up from an investor standpoint sure maybe the users whatever I don't even want to go into it but then you start thinking about like Layer Two they're all launching we have the eth upgrade soon com in with blobs it's going to make Layer Two a lot cheaper for users to use um I personally think the ux like you mentioned Remember by the way we were doing podcasts well before coinbase and exchanges allowed you to withdraw for free to layer twos

and we were saying like a ux Holy Grail will be when coinbase lets you withdraw at all these layer tuos we have that now um I think in general the eth player 2 ex disaster talk is totally fud pretty much made up exclusively by people that hate ethereum can it be better of course any of this can be better we all know metamask can be better layer 2 ux can be better is it fine yeah like you could if you want to get on arbitrum it's very easy to get on there pretty much for free right and use it um fragmentation all that's a totally different debate but all this starts to add up and like people slowly think like okay well what half set am I actually investing in um and I think eth starts to become a lot

more attractive as it happen happens now what's funny is right like as price goes up of course it becomes more attractive people oh now it's going up right it looks great um but I think one I just quickly want to hit on air dropping to solo stickers I'm a little surprised this hasn't happened yet and I think when it does happen it's going to start a waterfall effect of this because if you are a new project or a layer two or whatever that's doing an airdrop like that seems like a great user base to drop to right like these people clearly invested in eth like they they're they've learned how to solo stake they're probably still staking if you're doing an airdrop to them um like that seems like the crowd you would want to

give like part of your airdrop to right like it seems like a crowd that's not going to just take it probably and instantly dump it or like fud it or like weird things like that right so I think that's a pretty cool thing to see I'll be interested to see how it's done how many projects Do It um I would probably think like layer twos like I mentioned would be like kind of the first to try it out um for multiple reasons but yeah and then we get into the whole reaking thing which that I think I personally haven't staked in Igan layer yet just because I don't know I'm pretty risk averse at this point to my eth but um I know a lot of people are there's a lot of eth in there they're going to be worth billions of dollars a lot of

people are going to make a lot of money there um and just kind of more importantly like the use cases the data availity layer they're going to be doing to kind of make things cheaper in general for users I mean the Mind share is still an eth I know like people get distracted by all this chain launch it's cheaper but if you actually think about like The Innovation and mind share that's out there you always want to follow that right and like BTC kind of had this first mover and they kind of like lowered the IQ of their narrative which to them has worked for them digital gold we're going to keep it simple we're going to claim we have always going to have zero issue answer or eventually zero issue it's low inflation eth's kind of falling in this weird Middle Ground where it's like

we're going to be Innovative we're going to try things um but it's going to take time and then you kind of have these competitors that have come in on the other side say that promise all these crazy things but when you really break it down and really think about the asset you're investing in I mean it's hard to beat eth right but those narratives are complex and can take a while for people to digest and I think that's just what we're seeing um but once this fire gets lit under e and once the ETF comes and the supply shrink I mean it it in my opinion it's gonna blow up that's personally why I see it going to 20K and Beyond yeah yeah and I think like the competitors's kind of discussion is an interesting one and it's probably something that a lot of people think

about like as you said like this has been the same thing every cycle really for for eth and I mean even for Bitcoin like people don't remember but Bitcoin used to have like competitors I mean if you were in the know you knew that they weren't really competitors but like people kind of shielded them as competitors you know people would say oh ripples are compartive Bitcoin to bitcoin back in 2013 Litecoin as well and like some all these other Forks at the time and then people were saying you know cash flipped e yeah yeah exactly exactly and then you know you would say ethereum is a competitor to to bitcoin as well and you I mean I still believe ether is a competitor be to BTC to be money and to be a store of value and all that but you know there's always going

to be like competitors there's always going to be other projects that try to get the Limelight by attacking the kind of tallest tree right because what happens is that if you're an underdog projector new project you need the number one thing that you need to get is attention right that's the number one thing you need to get you need to be part of the conversation in whether that's on crypto Twitter or elsewhere you need to be part of that conversation and you that that's why if you look at the the actual crypto assets that are the um most valuable by market cap outside of BTC and eth they are the ones with the most attention not necessarily the most investable assets but they're the ones with the most attention and we can go down the list B&B binance right binance is one of the top exchanges

still in the world uh so for salana salana is very kind of loud right there's a lot of fans of Sal a lot of people loud about them xrp self-explanatory they have a huge Army right cardano Charles hoskinson is is has like an army of people behind him right so I'm not going to go down the list of all of them but really it's it's an attention game right uh chain Link's there I mean how many like link Marines are there so at the end of the day like the projects see this and they like okay well the only way I can get attention is by being loud and how do you kind of like uh uh be loud well you start kind of replying to the Maxis of other on Twitter because then you get them riled up and they reply to you and then

suddenly you have all this visibility from someone who has like 200,000 followers kind of replying to you and saying hey like you know what you said was wrong they know it's wrong they don't care because now you've just given them free attention right so when you think about it from that perspective the competitors have to do this in order to to to compete that's like literally a a thing that they um you know they don't have a choice here if they don't do it they're just not going to get the attention and because of that it means that a lot of the things that they say are going to be completely false and they're going to be things that may not be immediately false may take a couple of years to actually be proven out by the market proven out by the fundamentals but eventually reality

catches up like it's free to spin narratives right it costs nothing to send a tweet out or anything like that but reality has a massive cost to it you can't ignore reality forever and reality will eventually catch up so I think when it comes to competitors for ethereum the L2 road map has taken a while to play out right and it's still playing out there's a lot of issues with it as you said like we've solved um some issues and there are more issues that remain we're going to solve them but they're going to take longer to solve than some other competitor coming along and saying hey we can do all of this today but in reality maybe they can do it today for a short period of time and then if they start getting usage or start getting kind of like more eyeballs on it the

cracks begin to show and then the promises and the narratives begin to break down reality sets in and everyone's like oh okay uh I guess I could better walk back that narrative now because it's not you know people can see it's not true anymore and they start to spin the narrative again they start to change the narrative again so we've both seen this many many times over the years you know competive is come and go but I think what I love most about ethereum is that ethereum's gone through this mind you I mean we we expected proof of stake to be out in 2017 right like ethereum has definitely gone through this period of kind of change over the years and narratives changing and so on and so forth especially around ether as an asset like going from just a Pure Gas token to being money being a

store of value we've seen this all evolve but now ethereum at least over the last couple years especially has this very defined road map both for layer one and for scaling via layer 2os and this is a road map that the entire ethereum Community or at least almost the entire etherum Community is aligned around which is the most important thing because if you have alignment around it that means you can execute on it and that's what we're seeing we're seeing it executed on very very nicely uh but there's still a lot of work left to do um but yeah that's that's why I've I've always been you know such a huge fan of ethereum and my conviction on ethereum has just grown over time is because ethereum is executing very very nicely on a road map after pivoting a bunch of times mind you I mean we abandoned

execution sharing right we completely changed the design of proof of stake ethereum we may change it again in the future who knows but what what I like is that we have the smartest people working on ethereum we have the defined Rous we have the willingness and the ability to adapt and not just stay in one on spot uh which you know has always been my kind of bull case for ethereum generally so that's kind of my take on the on the competitive side of things and at the end of the day there's also like when it comes to investing people want to play the new thing right they like buying the new thing because it's like ah you know it's new and exciting I'm going to play it maybe I know that it's all but hey I'm going to hold it for a little bit and then trade it back to eth

and we see that play out because eth outperforms most things over the long term and that brings me to e BTC which we'll talk about after if you wanted to give like a take on what I just said there about the competitors I think the most important thing you said is like we've always dealt with competitors bitcoin's always dealt with competitors like it's always going to be there you're not going to just not have them right because there's there's too much money to be had and like at the same time um eth has learned some things from competitors like the like Cosmos is probably a good example like we've learned some things there like and maybe they're not a direct competitor but like to me in the long run and like we're both long-term Minds right like I get it I've given up some money on the short

term I could be chasing these things and trying to trade out of them but like what's going to matter most is the investability of the underlying asset right like the chains themselves might have all these promises but what's the actual like asset underneath going to be worth in 10 20 30 years like even if the chain is somewhat successful right and this is like what bitcoiners used to always hit on ethereum about like okay well what's like it's e is inflating at a time like five six 7% it was going to do that for a while and like I do kind of look back and enjoy that bitcoiners challenged the ethereum community a little bit to think of this because I think it pushed us to like think of how e should be money and like even if these competitors are going to be good for a

couple years or whatever like how investable is that asset underneath it in the long term right and I think that's where people especially with this line we're talking about being drawn Bitcoin e ETFs that line kind of and then the assets below that and just the moneyness of BTC and eth um to me that's what will speak volumes right in the longer terms of things yeah yeah exactly and I mean as you said like it is a long-term game it's like decades long game it's not shortterm and I think most peoplec in by the way exactly exactly and and and most people just do not think on those time frames and I get it if you're a first cycler if you're new to cryp though you're not thinking about like a decade

out right you're think especially if you're young if like you're you're in your early 20s you're thinking I got to make money right now like I want to be rich cuz it's your first experience in the markets you got no idea what's happening in crypto because there's just so much stuff happening and everyone's trying to get your attention and you don't know how to evaluate these things so I get it like I get it I mean it's annoying for us having to deal with it because we I guess quote unquote know better because we're more experienced but we were there once upon a time I remember when I got into Bitcoin in 2013 I was a total Noob I got wrecked on every shitcoin that was out back then it was there wasn't that many but I got wrecked because I thought I knew better

uh but coin and all those oh yeah feathercoin quarkcoin Doge was the big one that I got wrecked on back then yeah yeah so just so many of those kind of things happening back then but I learned my lesson and I took that with me and I think that's the main thing right um but so I think the next thing I wanted to talk about uh which still on the topic of markets is e BTC so basically e performance against BTC because this is something that I think too many people pay too much attention to especially over the over the shorter term and I mean I'm guilty of it myself I do kind of pay attention to it because I like to think that you know eth is competing with BTC and obviously as e BTC goes up it means eth is more valuable against

Bitcoin but I think what people pay attention to is the actual e BT BTC chart itself which is extremely noisy I don't think the E BTC chart has any real bearing on anything except the uh I guess like um price action of BTC and and eth like I don't really think anyone's necessarily trading e BTC they're just trading BTC things and eat things now obviously over the last it's probably like eight months now e BTC has pretty much been down only and I think that the major reason for that is just the ETF stuff right because think about it if you were trying to be in crypto and you were going to be in crypto from June of last year which was you know crypto went up a little bit from the bottom but it was still kind of a bare

crab market and you were thinking okay I'm going to get back into the market what are you going to do are you going to go and bid on like eth and the other kind of assets out there or are you going to bid on the thing that black rock just filed an ETF for right are you going to Long the thing that black rock just filed an ETF for and this bid kept increasing as time went on as the market became more and more confident that these ETFs are going to get approved so just a very easy trade for people to take very easy shelling point for people to take here and of course yes eth I think in November Blackhawk filed for the eth ETF but the trade was still on BTC because people said okay well I can just wait I can just keep getting BTC

I'll just keep trading that and then when the narrative heats up around eth getting an ETF then I'll I'll trade that which I think is going to happen relatively soon and I think it maybe is in the process of happening right now but that is first and foremost the reason why e BTC has gone down because of that bid there I don't think it's necessarily got to do a lot with the um quote unquote competitors to ethereum getting a bid right I think that that's just kind of some hot ball of money that's just going back and forth It's not there's not that much long-term investor capital in there um so I do think it's it's definitely the ETF stuff uh now in saying that if you actually compare e btc's performance this bare Market to last Market it is significantly better like I don't think

people realize that last bare Market e went down 90% against BTC from top to bottom I think um and you know this bare Market went down like I think 50% or something like that or at its deepest retrace maybe a bit less than that probably not like I haven't actually looked at it but like definitely not uh not that much think I don't even think that much because I think it went from like 085 like Point what was a low recently like it was it was around 40 45% I think yeah so not quite 50% but yeah about 40 45% right which is completely different to down 90% like the numbers may seem relatively close but they're not like percentages don't work that way on on kind of like on the way down there so like if you look at it from that perspective ether's already performed

significantly better and this was during a bear and crab market right this and this was during like a period of time where BTC had all the attention due to the ETF stuff so from here on out like I'm not going to say that this is like the Pico bottom of eth BTC but from here on out you can make the strong case that eth should outperform BTC right because eth has all of the stuff that we just talked about on the USD side of things but that also applies to e BTC because if USD eusd is going up and E USD is performing very strongly then it logically follows that it is going to be performing more more strong strongly than BTC because BTC already had its main catalyst kind of trade play out right yes it's got these passive flows coming in but this kind of hot ball of

money within crypto this Crypton native money hasn't really bid eth yet right they've been in BTC and they've been in and all these other things down the risk curve they're kind of underexposed to eth to an extent right so I think that you there is a strong case to be made that from here on out eth should outperform BTC and historically during bull markets eth has outperformed BTC and then if the ETFs get approved in May eth will be on equal footing as BTC in terms of the actual money it has access to so like if I was personally I mean this is not investment advice but if I was holding BTC right now I'd be swapping it for eth right yes it's a bit risky because eth BTC could go down more from here and maybe you could get a better entry but like I couldn't think

of a better setup right now for eth to outperform uh BTC here uh at least that's my kind of view on eth BTC maybe you've got a different view or something to complement that yeah I agree I think we're getting to that pivot point it's it's hard to this point because you said they had the Tailwinds of the ETF news for a long time like a year and then the ETF approval and now BTC has that constant bid of inflows right from more retail money investor 401K money coming in that he doesn't have yet and I I truly do think people are grossly on the sideline of eth I think a lot of people have been BTC because of the ETF stuff and eth competitors thinking that they're going to strongly outperform eth

we're getting potentially three months away from an eth ETF approval and I I don't think a lot of people think it's going to happen I think poly Market has it at like 5050 poly Market's a prediction Market um but I think that's like smarter money I think if you like pull true crypto Twitter they think it's probably less um I think it's way higher than that that's not just me being in the eth bow like I I just think if you read the the tea leaves and think's like record on ETF approvals um like it seems more obvious to me we might not see that I mean we had a nice bounce on the ratio today um and it's kind of been bottoming around like this like 05 level for a while um I think like a few months now um I think

we'll start to see the I think people start to realize it's going to Happ happen a month out something like that but I think people are starting to think about it right and I think we saw that today for the first time and what what's funny is the day Bitcoin got approved for the ETF eth rally like crazy on the ratio I think it was up like 15 20% on the ratio or something like that in a single candle but then that's that whole bowl of money right that I was talking about yeah exactly they started chasing it but then people were like oh no let's sell the news and then of course because e a little more risky asset on the downside it always like kind of underperforms a little bit right and it kind of went back to where it was um but

yeah that that hot ball money will start chasing it before the headlines like eventually and as these like alt eth trades cool off I think it's going to be a race in right and I think these narratives that we've talked about like everything's kind of coming together once and let's not forget we also had the Bitcoin happening narrative in there which we'll just help crypto in general now I I personally think that's a low IQ narrative but you know what low IQ narratives work right it's worked great for Bitcoin um there will be less sell pressure um I think just once again it's funny like almost four years to the date everything's perfectly aligning right like e ETF in May Bitcoin happening I think it's in July end of June something like that it's kind of a bit of a moving

Target but it's somewhere around then um and all these things are going to start to line I I we've been let's see three years is since the last top is that right um and we've been saying bull markets coming I think we've been pretty spot on with it's going to take some time um this is the most bullish I've personally been and in three four years um and I what's great is I don't see much froth in the market if you look at like um open interest on eth it's very very low like as far as um like Leverage trading I've had not a single random friend or family member text me out crypto I think all of retail is underexposed to eth I mean if unless the

world blows up we go into World War III there's always a Black Swan event that could happen right if everything kind of stays on this path I I don't see a reason he doesn't go to 20k that's just how I feel right now yeah and I think that like even for the macro people out there people who follow the macro tradire kind of side of things you know over the last 12 18 months they were like Max Duma there was like the world's going to end rates are going of this you know there's too much debt blah blah blah and a lot of these people don't actually understand how things work at all it was always hilarious reading these tapes being like guys like you have absolutely no idea how it works like they're like oh the US has so much debt needs to pay it back

I'm like guys like the US has aircraft carriers they don't care about their debt like who's going to come collect the debt like I I just think a lot of people just don't realize how things actually work right these they say these numbers and they're just like oh my God everything's going to go down and it's going to collapse and inflation's really high and then of course we saw inflation come down right the rates went up yes fine but like eth actually bottomed in in June right of of 2022 uh and that was the peak of inflation in the US uh back then and then since then it's been down only and now we're on the verge of the rates being cut now of course markets are always forward-looking they're not just going to wait for this to happen they've been pricing this in for for months now um

and and then you've got like the ETF stuff which falls into the M positive macro stuff as well so even if you wanted to just follow along with the macro stuff like there is a very bullish case to to be made there but I've always generally made the point that crypto at least until recently has been relatively too small to really care too much about the macro at least follow it too closely it usually lags to be honest because stocks will go to alltime highs first I mean the SPX just hit the alltime high right recently it it'll go to alltime High first and then crypto will follow because it's just a riskier asset class which is traditionally what's happened with the atfs that might change things going forward as well and it might kind of suppress these fouryear cycles that we've been seeing I mean it already has

to an extent um but yeah I mean I don't know what the bare case is right now as you said like there's the Black Swan that could happen I mean I don't even know if like a like a large scale War would Stop This Train right like I mean it depends on on what the war looks like too um and and you know I guess if we get another pandemic I don't think we're going to have the same thing because it's not a Black Swan everyone be like oh it's another pandemic right they're just going to be like oh well you know Co didn't like was actually good for the market so let's just bid everything up right so who knows the whole point of a black SW is you can't predict it obviously um so we'll have to see kind of if anything like that happens but

yeah I'm I'm struggling really hard to find any reason to be bearish right now uh to be honest like there are just so many reasons to be to be bullish on things things uh especially e and as you said like there's not much froth yet in the crypto markets like yeah okay BTC has done a really big move um and some of the other things have done big moves but people don't remember what it was like in 2021 or late 2020 how just how frothy it got back then like when you start seeing that level of froth again start seeing people like Elon Musk go on SNL and shield Dogecoin like that's that's Peak froth right uh and and like those random nfts just going up like massively that we saw in 2021 like that sort of stuff is is froth what we've been seeing is not froth it's just

like the same money rotating around like the same hot ball of money rotating around um and it's really just Crypton natives just pvping each other as they say uh so even that case yeah there's just not much of a bearish case to be made there uh in my opinion and I think that uh one one thing that a lot of people forget as well is that BTC actually didn't break 30k until October right the the ETF was filed in June by Black Rock but then BTC I think went to 30k and then went back down 25k because everyone was kind of fading it saying oh this is just going to get like rejected again because every other ETF got rejected and then slowly but surely you know the confidence started building and then when grayscale won their case against the SEC everyone was like okay

well now the sec's hand is forced they're going to approve this ETF and that's when you saw that massive run from 30k to like 45k leading up to the ETF which is a huge run for BTC because as you said the market cap is so so large that's a m that's an absolutely massive run so I think the same thing is happening with the eth ATF right now where the confidence is very low as you said prediction Market 50/50 crypto natives probably even less than that um but as we see more of these kind of issuers uh go back and forth with the SEC like as you mentioned Franklin Templeton today just um submitted their application but there's been other back and forth with other issuers as we see more and more of that happening over the coming weeks we're going to see the confidence build and that confidence is

going to build into the price and then the price is going to beget the price and then the price is going to go up because you know stop fomo and so on and so forth right and then uh the market will become Peak confident if it does get approved in May and as I said earlier we may see a similar kind of thing it's like I'll sell the news quote unquote uh rest for a little bit and then continue up from there uh but like yeah that's in May and that's after the harving as you said the harving is another big narrative in April right so we just have like this bullish narrative and bullish narrative and bullish narrative that in my opinion has not been priced in for eth at all yet really I mean a little bit maybe uh recently but but not really and I think once you

see ebtc really outperforming that's when you can probably have confidence that it's beginning to be priced in I think e USD is not enough because e USD has typically been following BTC USD up until you start seeing e BTC up perform that's when you know that people are actually now beting on eth ETF being approved that's the kind of signal uh to me at least uh and then after that as we said there's so many other catalysts but then we go into probably a full-blown bull market and it just gets crazy from there right pure chaos at that point I I think the last point I want to make is like people being bearish as ETF approval like I see a lot of people like think it's the government's decision which is it's nice to think that but in in all reality these financial

institutions own these government officials right either through donations or like whatever it is right like they're the ones with the real influence there's a reason Larry thinks like whatever I said 478 in one in ETF approvals right like black rocks makes a lot of money off ETFs and there's a lot of it's not corruption but there's a lot of backhanded agreement right in Washington and the more like you said The more financial institutions that have power that apply for this ETF the more likely it is because if they all want it if they all want a slice of the pie if they're all seeing dollar signs because of the fees are going to make off this thing it's

gonna happen right like G guinsler can claim and cry all he wants that it's not going to happen the end of the day if you got every large asset manager knocking on your door in Washington telling you that you better approve this or whatever um it's going to happen right and I think I think that's the real sign the more applications we see the more push we see from these larger asset managers financial institutions I think that's all that you really need to know so um it's an election year right like and the Dems need every good bit of Goodwill they can get at this point exactly well so by the way that's another like I mean that's not till November and I don't want to like take any sides here but like that that could like change mark Market's up too right

um and I think we're seeing you know like we didn't talk about but you just mentioned S&P 500 alltime High election year like there's a lot of catalysts that are coming for markets or that are already here right it's going to it's going to be a wild next 12 months um but yeah I don't I just don't see the bare narrative like who's sitting here is thinking they're going to dumb be and rebi a thousand right now right I just don't see it um so I'm personally excited for the next 12 months I I think we've deser it um for sure as the eth community and it's funny that people just like eth just executes and things happen and people move on and forget like it's even funny that proof of stake and a merge happen and like people just are like oh yeah that's been perfect

like let take it for granted right um so I mean I think if any asset at this point deserves a nice little rally I know I'm biased but um I think East that won mhm yeah and I think like e eth and ethereum is just always Suffering From Success right like it's just so successful and it does everything like so well that it kind of becomes boring for people cuz people expect ethereum to do the right thing so to speak or to like be boring and not like have drama and not have like you know downtime and things like that if you want to kind of take that view on things right uh and and and and that is not maybe something that could be traded upon and I think that Traders get very frustrated with eth because of that because eth probably like trades more like a long-term

investment than just like a hot ball trade that they could take because at the end of the day like Crypton native Traders they don't want to just sit in as for long periods of time they want to trade based on the weekly maybe a monthly kind of time frame not like years especially not decades or anything like that so for them it's a kind of a thing of okay well what does the eth chart look like okay well I can't trade this because the eth chart doesn't look like anything good because it doesn't I mean I I've watched some Trader videos and they all get very frustrated with eth because they're like you know this doesn't look like anything I can't trade this it's it's noise it's like yeah because I think eth Isa treated more as a long-term investment than it is as as

a trade um whereas all these other assets um they just don't they don't long-term Investments for most people they they've got very clearly defined like meme lines or trend lines you can draw on a chart they've got very defined narratives you can point to you know things like that and and when most of the people kind of like trading the asset are just short-term Traders then of course they're going to be able to dictate where the direction goes rather than the kind of investors here and that's why you see you know I mean one of the reasons why you see so much volatility on these other assets compared to eth and BTC as well um but that's it's kind of funny when you look at it from that it's where ethereum and E suffer from success a bit but if you just take the longer term view eth has

been such a strong asset for such a long period of time now uh and and you know it hasn't even been that long really I mean like we were at $80 back in what 2020 like if you really want to take it from like the co dump1 I mean we're at $100 for a couple of weeks after the co dump um and that was not that long ago you know it's four years ago or something now it's uh you know it's not decades or anything like that and if you go back a decade to 2014 that was eth Ico so like e e's performed like magically for a very long time um so I think people just need to take a longer term mindset when it comes to eth like eth is not a trade like eth is not something that you can you know you're

not going to make 100x off of eth you're not going to DJ and gamble on eth you're not going to be able to trade eth very successfully unless you're using leverage but then again you're going to blow yourself up using leverage probably most of the time right so that's what I try to get through to people is that like eth is more of like your long-term thing have a dgen stack you know play with that go do whatever you need to get it out of your system because I know a lot of people get they get fomo right they they need to do it I need to gamble I like okay that's fine go do that but like don't use your entire stash to do that because it just means you're going to end up with nothing um so it's like a typical thing of okay 90% in like eth

and other long-term Investments 10% dgen stack or whatever way you want to kind of wait it there people can do that but yeah I definitely think that people need to just really understand that eth is not a d gen play eth is a very long-term investment uh that will go up over time uh you know slowly but it's not going to give you 100x over like a couple of months like meme coins will but it also has none of the risk of meme coins right right exactly no I think that's a good point I mean not to throw out the typical like not Financial advice but like if you're not in it for a long-term play like e eth is the long-term play I mean BTC is to a point but BTC is like the safer boring long-term play I would say East like the oh crypto could be

massive like more more involved too right because you can do more things with your eth and get exposure to other things as well exactly yeah 100% but it's not like we're not saying like go buy e tomorrow and it's going to be 20K tomorrow or in two days right like it's GNA still take a little bit time but like anybody that I want anybody that invests me to like truly kind of believe in the the community and the vision and the execution right because I think that has been important for eth and I I I think it's a great perspective you just put out there like only four years ago we were at 100 bucks only nine years ago we were at a dollar we're at 2600 now like that's not a lot like tell someone they could make 2600x like in 10 years people would just

freak out right like it's easily forgotten I mean like we said even from bottom we're up 4X or whatever it is like that it's crazy how fast we forget like how successful crypto returns can be um but yeah definitely I mean if if you want to be an e just just hold on trust me everything it's going to be fine yeah yeah well that's it and and I think like a lot of people at least a lot of the the more plugged in people from what I've seen what they tend to do is they use that DJ stack but then they just roll the profits into eth right they don't want to go to cash for very long like unless it's like a they expect the whole Market to crash or like for us to go into another crypto be Market they don't really want to go to cash they'll

pay their taxes you know whatever but outside of that they want to go into crypto again so what are they going to go into they're not going to go into something even more D like they're going to take a lot of that into eth and into BTC as well and add that to their long-term stash and then maybe they go DJ in some more but like as you increase your Capital pool you become more and more conservative because you're like okay I've made all this money now I don't want to lose it maybe I'll reduce the percentage that I'm putting into this D gen stuff because now the percentage is a lot higher in dollar terms so and I I've got a lot of friends who do this I know a lot of people who have done this I've personally done this like I was a lot more DJ in last cycle

than I am now I mean I'm not even I'm not even djen at all now I think the most DJ thing I do is Angel Investments right um which I mean depending on how you look at it can be pretty de gen but that's that's kind of my D gen stash so to speak I'm not doing air drop farming I'm not speculating on Meme coins I'm not doing any of that but I was in 2020 like during defi summer I we both were like the food farms and everything right um but that's when we our bank rols were like you know a lot less and we we kind of like increased it over time we became more conservative and now we're just like you know I'm happy with what we've got and we're happy to just keep it in eth because we want to obviously not be

in cash because cash is trash as they say right to an extent um and then just buy buy eth dips and things like that when we've got some spare capital on the side as well um more more of those macro e dips like those big ones where like 88 stuff like that like below 1K kind of at the end of the the bare Market sort of thing um But like everyone has their own kind of ways of going about it but uh but yeah as you said like e is definitely a a long-term thing like it's not it's not a short-term thing and I think people just have bad expectations when it comes to eth still which just puzzles me because eth is such a large market cap but yeah yeah yeah I think one important thing is always like when things get frothy take a little off the

table just to set aside to buy that 60% dip at some point right even if you buy it a little early at 50% like it's always nice to set some aside to Reby because it when things get frothy yeah you might sell like a little early but it's always going to go lower at some point than that right like it if you could sell the absolute top and buy the absolute bottom yeah that would be wonderful right but like when things get really really frothy it's always good to take a little off the table and just set aside to like Reby that bottom and like you always want to buy the bottom sooner than it actually is I feel like if you wait that like twoyear period like that's kind of the sweet spot um but yeah the more Cycles you go through the the more you realize actually how simple

this Market actually is exactly it just comes with experience you know like I we can tell people whatever but like they they most of the time they're probably not going to listen to us because they have to experience it for themselves especially if they're younger have a bit of an ego about them haven't had experience with markets before uh they're definitely not going to listen most of the time and that's just the natural order of things I think and the way things have to go and I actually do recommend people get wrecked you know once or twice not with their H stash or anything like that but like lose some money because that is the best lesson because then you become humbled you're like okay well maybe I'm not as good as I thought I was because you know Crypt bull markets tend to like inflate your

ego and inflate your confidence because everything's going up and you think you're like the best investor ever I mean I I still felt this in 2017 where I bought some stuff and I was just like oh my God it went up I'm a genius but then I quickly kind of caught myself and I was like M no I don't think so like everything's going up together like I've been I've been through this before it's not it's not that I'm a genius I'm just like in the right place at the right time right now um and yeah I think not falling into that trap is is critically important uh for kind of investing but you know it comes with time comes with experience and I think that uh I don't know I I think that the daily gay listeners you know and viewers a lot of

them are probably like second cyclers but there's a few first cyclers in there as well so it just depends I think some maybe some third cyclers but I think by your second cycle you start to get the hang of things but first cycle is uh yeah it's it's messy you learned the hardest lessons in the first cycle y yeah it's a sh Show I had a lot of Bitcoin in early 20 that I felt a genius about um and lost it all leverage trading and I'm like okay I'm actually going to be a value investor now and that's when I found e so I'm never going back to those days but yeah you gota you got to learn those lessons there's no doubt about that y yeah exactly all right well we've gone for over an hour I think so I think that's might be the

perfect time to kind of finish it up there for today I think if if people aren't sufficiently bullish after that episode on eth then I don't know what's going to help you and I hope that we can like revisit this episode in like a year's time not saying that we're going to go a year without doing another episode hopefully we don't do that um but like in a year's time and see like how right or wrong we were on things and like where we actually top out because I'm going to laugh if we top out like below 15K or something and that we're just like we we're both like very wrong um but at the same time like just the general Trend regardless of price targets I think the general trend from here is very very bullish for for eth just generally and the crypto space uh

as a whole and I think we we obviously both agree on that and I think that a lot of listeners will agree on that um but yeah just don't BL yourself up guys like that's the number one piece of advice I always give people like I don't give investment advice I give advice on like don't blow yourself up that's just general kind of Life advice I think because if you do that and you get sidelined and you don't have Capital put back in and the market gets ahead of you it's the absolute worst feeling and you're just going to you're just going to exit crypto and hate crypto because of it yep survive in advance exactly that's it all right well yeah thanks everyone for listening and watching uh be sure to subscribe to the channel if you haven't yet give that video a thumbs up

subscribe to newsletter and join the Discord Channel and we'll catch you when we catch you obviously uh you know we rug sometimes for 4 months sometimes it's like a month we'll see we try to do that at two we Cadence originally but we didn't stick to that but we'll see when we're back it's just going to be a random kind of thing on the drive-thru here but yeah glad you enjoyed the episode and yeah thanks Eric for joining me today