Daily Gwei Bankless Thursday Livestream

Transcript

all right we're probably live now so i'm just gonna go ahead yeah there we go hey anthony what's up oh you know just trying to keep up with this like ethereum at the treadmill speed of like 50. that's what it feels like right now it's just like somebody turned the treadmill up to 50 and we're all just trying to stay on stay on the treadmill right right yeah i uh obs

uh can you uh can you say something you might not have any sound anthony is muted yeah okay hold on uh i [ __ ] once again i'm [ __ ] up um sorry guys sorry guys again anthony was talking about how long of a week it's been so it like i said it's one of those things okay oh here we go uh now say something hello hello testing well now i can't hear you kind of a [ __ ] say something hello testing oh god sorry guys well now they can hear you but now i can't hear you [Laughter] uh is it this is it

how come this is the stream that's breaking they can yeah they can hear me but i don't think you can hear me nice i can't hear you yeah i yes chad i know you can hear anthony but i can't and that's the important part uh okay oh it's gonna be this okay now say something yo yo yo okay there we go sorry guys sorry guys all right we're back for the third time for the third time anthony how are you doing i'm good i'm good i think is the stream

okay stream's okay is chat gonna awesome awesome okay uh so they couldn't hear you they could hear me so uh okay just starting over god damn this etherium thing is [ __ ] crazy and i'm having a hard time keeping up with it but i think i'm not alone in that um so what's ethereum been like for you for the last week uh i mean it's been like it was back in day five summer like just absolutely insane i get up every morning i go to my computer and there's just so much to catch up on it's just it's insane it really is and i think the most insane thing about it is the hilarious thing is like if i kind of wake up a couple of hours like later than i usually do i miss out on like so

much that that happens kind of like uh you know i miss out on like aping into something that's gone 10x or whatever it's just the opportunity cost of sleeping is insane but i mean i can't skip sleep if i do that then i'm just you know i just gonna like screw myself later down the line so yeah i guess that's just the sacrifice i make right and i definitely want to talk about luke because this is what we're talking about this loot thing is is crazy but like you just talked about you took the words right out of my mouth like the opportunity costs of not paying attention to ethereum are like insane right now and like there's i've definitely skipped meals this week i've definitely like lost sleep this week i definitely i've like haven't gone to the gym and i've just been like injecting

all of all of my energy into this [ __ ] ethereum thing because it's doing one of the things that like it does it does every now and then where something's brand new and we all have to pay attention to it and like i'm not complaining but god damn it like i want my life back yeah you look you look a little bit like a crazy caveman right now just sitting in his house like being like oh god i've got an eight of these nfts oh my god screw exercise well yeah but it's that on top of doing like five shows a week which i know i signed up for but like and trying to juggle both bank lists and also like keeping up with like this loot phenomenon it's absolutely insane yeah i know i feel you on that trying to do all the like usual work that kind of

i meant to be doing and then trying to kind of like follow the ecosystem it's it's impossible i mean i i do my daily show and and try to keep up with it as much as i can but it's still it's just it's too crazy like i can't just i mean i could do a daily show just on nfts every day at this point so like you know and go for hours so it's just it's just crazy but i mean you mentioned loot i think for me i mean for people who have probably seen this on twitter right loot for adventurers that's called on openc i think loot has kind of like just been like zero to one moment for nfts right where we had all these clones over the last few weeks of like the profile picture nfts and all that kind of mania

going on and that was fine but it wasn't really innovative there wasn't really much kind of like uh a new stuff coming out of that and now we've had this loot thing launched and it was literally just some like text as on like uh text file nfts and people what's this like you thought you couldn't get wrap your head around jpegs like now we have text exactly so and you know it's funny i was thinking to myself i'm just like you know why did why did this kind of like take off i mean there's a few reasons but i think what this proves is that people are going to speculate on anything right so if you see things going crazy within this ecosystem and you've got no no idea why just people love to speculate that's it like we've i mean humans have speculated on things for centuries and i

guess like uh the dj nature of crypto just kind of like charges that up and 100x is it but i think the the most interesting thing to me about loot is that what it did it basically just said hey guys here's some tools right and this is it like here's the tools you can do whatever you want with it and that was it like there was no guidance there was nothing there was no kind of like road map there was nothing like that um and the communities just run with it i go into the discord it's not on fire people building things like it's permissionless it kind of feels like uh what happened with with ethereum right where ethereum just like existed and because it's permissionless you had all these people building on top of it whereas with with this kind of nfts it usually had kind of like a central kind

of like issuer that was part of the project and they'd be like oh this is our roadmap you know this is what these kind of like nfts are they're like profile pictures but with like blue it's like okay well here are the name item names i don't know what they look like you do something they look like you do exactly and for me i mean i played a lot of minecraft back in the day i love doing like creative stuff like that even though i'm not really like an artist i can't really draw anything i love just building things so i played a lot of minecraft early on and i you know the reason why minecraft succeeded was in large part due to the fact that people could just do anything they wanted right they could build anything they wanted there was no like central dictator saying hey you have to

build this or you have to play the game this way it's kind of this open world kind of like do what you want and it was completely multiple as well that's the thing i think a lot of people forget about minecraft is that the modding community was absolutely massive people would just build things on top of this thing and people could install it and do stuff that's the same thing that i think is happening with loot right now where essentially everyone building on top of it is just building mods for lack of a better term for this thing and everyone can kind of enjoy it but i mean you wrote your article right yesterday i think it was or whatever that long metaverse article you probably have like a lot of thoughts on this right now right yeah yeah totally it's it was so opportune that this loot thing came

every like literally the same week i was finishing this article and like one of the reasons why i haven't had any sleep this week is because like i had to rewrite like the middle section of my article to like now to update itself with the loot paradigm because if you read my article after you're like luke came out you'd be like well what the hell like why'd you miss this like it wouldn't make any sense and so like i was up to like 2 30 on wednesday night like finishing this goddamn thing and so like and basically the the thesis is that this the metaphors is going to come around in the same way that we've just described loot right and so let's back up a little bit and build from the bottom up loot instead of are nfts but instead of having an a jpeg

a hash of a jpeg appended to them they just have like eight lines of text that represent eight items inside of them and then they put the onus on the community to ascribe meaning and cosmetic layers and you know other things around that token right so it's actually making the the nft even more simple in the in the hopes that people add complexity on top of that without having to actually embed it in the token so people are adding on complexity onto this simple simple substrate and so the metaverse is going to arrive around ethereum in that same way whereas ethereum is this property right system this object permanent system that allows the metaverse to arrive around all of

these objects and now that all of these objects exist on the same shared state and what is ethereum other than a state machine now that these all objects all exist all these objects can bump into each other we can have like interactions these like the sword can bump up against the armor right like these are the bare bones of what this means and it's up to other non-ethereum technologies like your computer like your vr headset like your phone to actually manifest these cosmetic properties around these tokens and it's those things that can actually plug in and stitch in with each other into having like one sort of seamless like ready player one type universe that we all want um yeah i mean and and that's the thing like it's funny you mentioned ready to

play one because that's exactly what i think of whenever i think of this metaverse stuff is that is the world that everyone kind of like wants and you know i'm seeing bits and pieces of it pop up here and there and it's just i think it can't be built from the top down right has to be built from like bottom up which is exactly what loot is trying to do uh because for people to buy into this sort of stuff and and and for the metaverse to kind of like get uh you know come to life uh you need community communities to build these things right you need communities to form around them and a lot of communities don't like to form around things that are that are completely centralized in crypto where there's a you know a core team basically dictating the road map and not taking community

import and not letting the community build on it uh that i think kills a lot of projects honestly early on is when they don't have a great community building on top of them so yeah it's gonna be just wild to see i mean there's gonna be um clones of loot that come out but the funny thing is about loot is that you can actually build derivatives on top of the loot bags that people already have where you can mint these new things with the loot bag that you have and then you have access to these uh whatever they are like there's there's like maps and kind of like realms and stuff and it's just it's kind of like super wild experimentation happening right now um and then i think people are trying to find like what's going to stick because not everything's going to stick right

there's all these kind of derivatives coming around and people are going to just like come together as a community and decide on like which uh which of these derivatives are going to stick around which are going to be part of the actual metaverse which are going to be part of the game uh whatever the game decides to be so yeah i mean it's just game yeah i mean right now i mean the game doesn't exist right it's just like this thing in people's heads we're playing the game right now the game begins with a speculative mania doesn't it oh yeah exactly true true to crypto nature um but yeah i guess like there's a question from the chat you wanted us to answer that oh no no no we'll get we'll get to that don't don't let don't let that we'll get to that one

yeah yeah oh good yeah no no i i just like just generally i think that the metaverse is not going to start from like a top-down approach it's going to be bottom-up and this is the first signs of that and what's happening here and it kind of reminds me of what like yearn did for d5 where you know andre launched the wi-fi token you know kicks i mean he didn't pioneer liquidity mining but he basically popularized it after comp went live um and kind of like popularized the the idea of like this just bottom-up approach to d5 where there's no kind of like core central team people can come and kind of contribute to it there's no llc there's none of that sort of stuff and we've seen many more projects within d5 launch like that where they started as like a dow first and then we've seen

like social tokens as well do that sort of stuff but now with nfts i think we're seeing it with loot where it's kind of like yes there was like one person one guy dom that created it and minted it but the thing is he didn't put out like a road map he's not dictating kind of where this is going he's just being like yeah community go how about it and and they are like they're just coming together and eventually they'll settle on like a core team which is fine um like a core group of contributors but the fact that the community can keep contributing i think is very important yeah and and to back to what you said about like how this ecosystem kind of it's a bottom-up ecosystem the this is the same bowl case for loot is like what i heard van spencer talking about the bowl case for

defy when like he broke my broke my brain about defy like in 20 early 2020 where he said like the reason why like defy is what it is is because of the permissionless nature of innovation it's exactly what you're talking about with with minecraft just like opening up innovation to the maximum degree like that's what wikipedia did and now we have wikipedia right like it's just pushing computation to the periphery and that's where things are the most efficient right like people around loot uh ascribe value to it rather than having one central team that you have to trust and invest in and like keep up to date with instead you have like uh people coming from the outside in and because it's open because it's an open permissionless

ecosystem you re like lower the barriers for actually adding value onto the thing down to the absolute minimum which is just fantastic exactly and i mean i think it's funny because we can lower these barriers down even more because right now i think what what what is happening with ethereum obviously is the gas price is being high prices a lot of people out so we're going to lower these barriers down even further when we when we scale or kind of like more of this stuff gets adopted on the layer twos and on top of that you know a lot of these loot bags are now very expensive i think the floor is like 15 8 and um you know the the a gold token uh is also there and that's kind of like uh gone up in price too but generally i think that the derivatives

and stuff like that is what keeps it kind of very uh the barrier entry very low because these derivatives can start off being worth nothing you can mint them for free and then people can kind of speculate on them and if they actually want to form a community around them they can but still like i say mint them for free but you still got to pay the gas fee and i think every time i've minted one it's cost like 80 dollars in gas fees which you know for for a lot of people especially newer people like that's a high fee like very very high so yeah exactly exactly so i i feel like um we can lower the barriers like even more but the fact that we were already you know kind of lowered it this much is is amazing to me and i yeah i mean agree

with advances the reason why d5 has been so popular is because of that permissionless nature and that's exactly why i think loot is going to continue to be very popular i mean we're at the very beginning of this maybe we revisit this in six months and loot's just like on the wayside something else took over you never know right because there was the same amount of like extreme hype around yearn and wi-fi and the hype normally follows the price of these things i mean it pretty much does so if the price was to crash and then there's kind of like this this lull for a little while doesn't mean the project's bad or the project stops growing but like a lot of the community kind of tends to dissipate from there but it's going to be interesting to see how you know what the long lasting community looks like for

loot and what other projects spin up as well because i mean if you think about gaming in general with nfts there's hardly any like i mean actually infinity is huge it's like one game there's a few others out there now but think about the actual gaming ecosystem and how many there are there's like tens of thousands of video games probably more than that especially in the indie scene and and you know we're transforming that i think with with this what we're doing within nfts and doing this kind of like bottom-up approach which i think is really cool yeah totally uh trey and pedro we're about to get to a gld i definitely want to bring that up but i want to uh wrap this conversation up with this one last point uh you talked about how lou is um what yfi did for d5 right like this zero to one moment that

like broke everyone's brains and changed the paradigm well you could have also said uh the comp token and the comp token in liquidity mining and i would have been like oh yeah that's exactly right and like the the important the point i want to make is that like when you have these zero to one moments the op the chances of you having another one like right after that are like actually pretty high right because people like you just had one you have a brand new like fields brand new pastures we're all exploring them the chances are that somebody's gonna come across come across a diamond in the rough right as we like enter this new land it's actually pretty high right and so like it can actually turn into like a wave of just like uh oh we just came up with loot well now we have this thing and now

we have this thing and like nft seem to have like more energy and surface area than d5 does so i'm actually even more optimistic that like just because we had this paradigm paradigm breaking thing i think we might actually have like some other paradigm breaking thing happen in the next like few weeks or months just by the nature of how these things work yeah it's it's like we've unlocked this new item in our not item but like this skill in our skill tree right where before we didn't kind of know that this was possible uh or no one had done it and it kind of been like a fringe thing and now it's becoming you know going into the mainstream consciousness and everyone's like oh okay i understand this this is really cool with regards to like loot that's the same thing that happened with liquidity mining and stuff

like that but i think what always ends up happening is that speculation gets ahead of everything and we saw what happened with liquidity mining you know it's it's kind of like gone through a very tough phase over the last few months people are trying to come up with better ways to do it and kind of like fairer ways to do it and and longer-term ways to do it so i think that's what's probably going to happen here but i mean we're just going to ride the hype wave for now and who knows where it's going to go where it's going to end it's just going to be a crazy ride totally yeah when we did see uh urine we saw urine get fort into yfii and then that got forked into yfiii yeah and then that got forked into yfiv for four which is funny

but like you just know that's like this is unsustainable uh and ultimately we've forgotten about all of those and there's only urine left um kind of also why people are people are bullish on loot it's like the og ones um so there's this uh there's this agld token which got air dropped to loot holders and it's just a i'm pretty sure it's just like a brand new erc20 token maybe it has other features in it i don't know if that's true or not but like i think it's just a brand new erc20 token that's just named something similar as an adventure gold after adventure loot and it specifically got air dropped to loot holders so the implication is that like this is the new currency of the loot universe because all the loot people have them which makes sense because we need a native currency that's like common extremely

common amongst all the relevant people like i'm sure everyone's holding eth but like even we need something more precise right we need a currency that's more specific to the loot people and so they they urge this like aagld token so you got if you had one loot you got 10 000 agld tokens these are currently trading they're very very volatile because it's very is brand new they're currently trading at three dollars and 57 cents it's been as low as two dollars and that's kind of like the high i've seen today i think if this if we want to put on the bull caps like this is a new macro currency in my mind a new macro new macro asset maybe maybe for like nfts um you know in the macro sense there but this is

interesting because i mean i think what you said is true and also i think is going to be a governance token as well within the loot metaverse i mean this is all so early like who knows what this is going to be it's only been over the last few days that this has kind of come to prominence and i think loot has only been out for like two or three days uh sorry a gold it's only been out for two or three days um but essentially you mean yeah i think obviously the meta a metaverse or a game needs a currency and people are speculating that a gold is going to be the currency but i think that at the same time people are speculating on a gold because of the fact that uh they can't uh buy the loot bags right because the loot bags are like 15 eighth

floor that's not you know that's a lot of money so people are like okay well how do i get exposure to the loot ecosystem right now how do i kind of like ride this wave up and a gold is probably the best way to do that um not investment advice but in terms of like looking at the kind of barrier to entry because you can buy a fraction of an a gold right you can buy a fraction of a loot bag on the fractional platform but it's a bit different and it's not kind of like there's not there's not that much there and i mean there's a few different kind of like things to think about there but i think any ic20 token for people is just like second nature for them at this point they're like oh yeah i know how to buy a token i got a

uni swap and i buy it and that's it right and that's a lot of people are doing um but you're right the price right now that is extremely volatile um it's it's definitely not something uh that you should like ate blindly i think that you know obviously people should do their own research and things like that um but this definitely feels like the birth of of a new like kind of like ecosystem um with that we're gonna keep seeing kind of like derivatives built upon i don't know if maybe there's another kind of like currency that comes out that's better than a gold who knows but i think it's it's difficult to kind of like have any definitive answers right now but it's just been interesting to see how anyone can launch these things and the people come together and like say okay well this is the selling

point for the currency we're gonna we all agree that a gold is the thing because we got air dropped it because we hold loot bags and you know everyone can buy it it's on uni stop it has decent liquidity all that sort of stuff uh so it's gonna be interesting to see how that gets kind of like integrated into whatever they're building in loot right like it's so hard to talk about like the problems that need to be overcome because like literally the metaverse doesn't exist and like the bull case for lou is that the metaverse exists and so like it's kind of like the problem is like what the hell do we do first like we have these generative maps that apparently are part of like this new universe we have uh uh these new currencies we have like these

new items i'm kind of worried that like we only create like all these components and never create any of the components that stitch things together um at some point there's going to be an incentivization problem because like or just a public goods funding problem which we know is like hard for ethereum like how do we how do we fund like the development of like all the things that actually make these these objects relevant to each other in like one seamless metaverse like who the hell knows it it's funny because urine ran into this problem right because there was no uh there was no kind of like centralized treasury from the beginning or there was a small kind of like treasury from the beginning uh they ran into problems of kind of like funding and they're like okay how do we how do we be sustainable

here and they kind of like minted more wi-fi tokens right uh to kind of put into their treasury and they also stopped kind of paying out to people who staked in governance from the fees that were generated they just went and buy bought sorry wi-fi from the market and kind of used that to pay out developers and stuff like that so yeah i'm totally with you like if all the money kind of gets sucked out and that none of it goes to like a treasury to to kind of like um improve development or kind of like pay for development um then yeah we might run into that issue but i'm i haven't seen anything yet maybe i've missed it but like hopefully there's kind of like a treasury reforming or something maybe there's gonna like gonna be a dow and a gold will be the governor's token for

that and then there'll be like a treasury there but it's very hard to tell because it's super chaotic right now i don't think anyone has kind of like a full view of what's happening not even kind of like the most hardcore people but i think that as time goes on as we coalesce around kind of like the core components of this new kind of thing with loot there'll be more answers to these questions but for now it's just like i can't stress it enough it's literally just extreme speculation right now and just craziness it's it's like don't ape in unless you're happy happy losing all the money you ain't been with right like at the end of the day these are just texts on tokens that is all that it is and so like the fact that this has any amount of value is absolutely insane um

like there it does there uh there's only 7500 bags i think loot bags um so there's eight objects times that many which means that i mean even when you multiply it there's not that many objects in like one one bag is like one set of clothes so really there's only like one set of a complete set of armor and rings and weapons for seven thousand eight hundred people like the obvious funding model is that like hopefully this you can we can mint more of these things and sell them for ether to put in a treasury to fund a team but first a team needs to form around this and like the community needs to accept that uh and so like how that i think maybe that actually is the first obstacle is like that is what we have to get to we need like uh

interested and committed talent to like rise to the top and then have social consensus around who these people are yeah i know i totally agree with you on that i think it's going to be a maybe things happen fast in this ecosystem but it's probably going to be like a few weeks before we actually kind of like settle down here i think this speculation is going to be pretty extreme we're pretty we feel like it's pretty much at the start of it i mean if you look at a gold it's only on unisop right now there's no centralized exchange listings loot as kind of like an nft thing just started kind of like blowing up over the last day or so so i i think like a lot of people still haven't heard of it so if this thing really does take off like like i believe

it actually will um you know the speculation's just going to get more extreme from here uh but then as you said like we're going to have to eventually have like a core team that's actually sticking around and building things that people are actually going to use and add utility to it but until that happens people love to speculate i mean you can look at all the things that have kind of like promises uh i mean there's a lot of kind of projects that promise things and they they kind of like build hype and they do the marketing whatever people speculate on it and they beat it up but if you kind of like peel behind the curtain a little bit you'll see that there's just still so much left to build and like there's hardly enough people building it and it's going to take longer than you thought it would um but

during these speculative main years uh no one cares about that it seems people just wants to kind of like speculate and that's fine like there's nothing wrong with that but you've got to be very careful in that regard because you could be the one left holding the bag in the end right when if when everything comes crashing down so that's why i always caution people against kind of like you know apping into things blindly it's it's definitely not uh not not the best strategy right yeah when you hear like me and anthony talk about like all the how cool this is like that doesn't necess that's not like advice that's not like uh like this isn't going to happen well you're just speculating on speculators and like we also have like way way better access to information than the average person right just like we we know who the people are like we we

can test out legitimacy a little bit a little bit easier we've been through the [ __ ] uh and so like just thinking that you can like you know have have similar experiences like you need to you need to be in the ecosystem like pretty long in order to have these skills where like you can actually have like an educated ape or who the [ __ ] knows just go for it like i don't know like yeah yeah yeah i wouldn't say that i i wouldn't say that i i think that you or i have any kind of like uh not a special knowledge or anything about this sort of stuff it's more just about experience right that's what we've experienced yeah we've experienced this speculative stuff like many many times and it never changes because humans are the same right like we always kind of like follow

the same sort of thing but at the same time i think what does change is kind of like the the products that are being built and kind of like the way people can build them and the services but those things come definitely later on right they don't come now they come in you know in months like it takes a long time to build stuff right it's not going to happen overnight um so yeah but the speculation will because it's much easier to speculate than it is to build that is too true that's too true speculators can always speculate faster than the builders can build um so uh i want to plug the daily grade but i need to get the link out so anthony and i we do these every now and then uh we used to do them once a week but then conflict of schedules but now we do this

every now and then but if you guys don't know anthony cesano you're absolutely crazy and you should absolutely get to know him and so you should go and to his daily gray youtube channel and subscribe to the daily gray here it is coming into the chat he does these videos that i use to keep up with ethereum every single day uh and i find them immensely valuable uh so uh go follow him on youtube sorry i'm a little bit sleepy a little bit loopy right now that's all right so thank you for the plug sir of course of course um okay so this whole loot phenomenon and like also the nft phenomenon mainly the loop phenomenon has actually completely like not it's re redefined what i think ethereum really is for like we all know what ethereum's uh for it's a fabric of financial infrastructure that can

blanket the earth i think what it's really for now is ethereum is the thing that builds the metaverse it is the metaverse economy that's going in the in the 50 hundred years when the metaverse is completely sussed out and complete it's been like oh yeah you mean the thing that's on ethereum like the thing that ethereum built like that is what it is like that's what we have been building this entire time you know it's funny i've been i was actually talking to someone in the daily grade discord about this yesterday about like the terms that people are going to use to describe these things obviously metaverse as a term has taken off um ethereum people know about but like i think that the catch-all term for literally everything in this ecosystem

is just simply crypto right whenever you hear anyone talk about this sort of stuff like from normies to kind of like the building ecosystem they always refer to it as crypto so if you think about like the long term i agree with you that ethereum is going to be at the center of everything but will people refer to it as ethereum or will ethereum just be like uh thoughtful to like the background as the supporting infrastructure um and it's an open question i actually believe that people will refer to it as ethereum because they'll own eth uh because that's a very different thing to kind of like internet protocols for example like ethereum as a protocol has a native token attached to it the internet as a protocol does not so yeah sorry so the protocols powering the internet like tcp no one refers to the

internet as that i mean i people refer to the internet as wi-fi these days really a lot especially younger people right it's just wi-fi or like face connected wi-fi yeah yeah so so branding is always kind of like important i think um and i think ethereum will actually be able to keep uh keep us part of people's minds because of the fact that eath exists as a token people can buy and then they know that each belongs with to ethereum and then it'll just kind of like snowball from there but but also like you have all these projects that kind of like sorry all these things priced in each as well like the nft economy being priced in east immediately people know oh well this is like on ethereum i'm using ethereum right now i'm using my eighth so i think that um it's just gonna be funny to see like

what terms people use to describe these sorts of things because the internet definitely didn't get referred to as tcpip besides like the inner kind of like circles um and technically ethereum as a protocol is very similar to that but i think that uh the fact that there's a token changes that completely but um it's gonna be i mean whoever the big winners are gonna be for the normies as well right like uni swap as a brand is pretty amazing like i reckon could you find someone that knows what unisop is but doesn't know what ethereum is like could you could you find someone that basically has traded using uni swap on an app that they have but nowhere on that app does it say ethereum so they've got no idea that they're trading like on ethereum i actually bet you could find people like that and in the future

there'll be more and more people like that they just access through these kind of like front ends or whatever and it doesn't mention ethereum which is fine but it's just funny how that kind of works right where um the naming and the terminology changes over time and evolves over time i mean the incident used to be known as like the super information highway or something information super highway something like cringe as hell and like no one calls it that anymore um but like these days you have uh you know people calling stuff it's still ethereum and obviously people have a vested interest in making sure people still refer to it as ethereum because of eth as a token but as we get like that mass adoption i'm actually curious to see what happens there everything will be built on eighth i believe that um everything will connect to each there'll

be bridges in and out the metaverse will be ether and ethereum but will people refer to it as that open question still i think yeah uh i mean the internet and ethereum as words are like kind of similar-ish like similar lengths similar syllables i think i didn't count but like you know kind of you get my vibe um and like i think that like the ethereum name is like one of the biggest strokes of genius that vitalik has ever had it is such a good name for the whatever the hell this this thing is right like the the whole idea that like uh ethereum is supposed to be in the background you're supposed to not notice it it's supposed to be invisible to you yet it is the invisible hand that makes the entire economy work

it's it disapp itself disappears into the ether yeah it is it's ethereum it sounds like a world it sounds like a universe and that's because it is as it is what it is or maybe my my bias is about like i think i've already thought about this so many times so maybe that's just coming through no no it's funny because like um i've always loved the name as well because of that uh and and i think that you've described it perfectly the funny thing is that the name also kind of is a bit i think a bit of a homage to world of warcraft as well which vitalik played a lot of um there's these kind of like race called the the ethereals and there's kind of like ether everywhere and there's items and worlds and stuff like that and there's like a place called um netherstorm which has like a

lot of the aether stuff going on um so i think battalion was still playing around then is that what determines named after uh sorry never mind uh maybe maybe i haven't played the game in a while but yeah it might be um but uh yeah i mean there's a lot of kind of like homage there which personally speaks to me uh as well but like the the zone um netherstorm uh is actually like a zone like that where it's like they've got like the ether out there and it's like just like an open kind of like thing where you know there's kind of like a universe outside of it and it's just it's like crazy i mean if you see it you'll know what i mean and people listening in or watching will know what i mean but um yeah i think that the name ethereum it couldn't have been

better really just for describing what what you know theorem actually is uh and and i think the fact that it's like so easy to say as well i mean the fact that it's not easy to spell maybe for every because like if you hear it without seeing the word you may spell it like with an eye i've seen a lot of people do that before i did that when i first got into the ecosystem yeah so i think that's that's maybe a little bit of a negative but at the same time if you type that into google google's just gonna auto correct you anyway so it doesn't really matter um but yeah i think just the name yeah definitely is really really um really cool and i can't think of anything better to be honest yeah like i said it feels like a place you go and yeah

i was uh talking with eric connor about like ethereum brain which you definitely have you if anyone has ethereum brain it's you and ethereum braid is just like he also uh what did i say oh yeah i put out a tweet that said like hey can we just pause all ethereum blocks from like saturday to monday so like we can all just take a break and then eric connor says like have you seen this 50s horror movie called the blob like the blob just like it captures you and it sucks you in it doesn't let you go and like like i just said like what i said is like ethereum feels like a place you go right like it feels like a place that you enter and we're all just like kind of like dinking around on metamask on these websites and that just feels like

the first instantiation of like this metaphysical meta meta metaversal place right like and it's just going to be built around us and it's literally the blob the blood is going to build itself around us and then we are actually going to be inside of it it's actually going to consume us yeah no i if you're in brain is like the perfect way to describe it i'm definitely on that 24 7. especially still being in lockdown here i mean there's not much else i can do but huffington man huff the ether yeah i just i'm huffing it every day i mean especially when the price is going up i think uh it's funny because like i noticed the um kind of like community just wakes up when the price goes up right like twitter just becomes on fire and it's hard to kind of

like get i mean it's impossible to take a break especially having your phone connected to social media and stuff like that i mean i can't even take a break if i want to even if i'm you know when i'm riding my bike i'm still listening to podcasts i listened to to the roll pop poll podcast you guys did with him the other day and i was like riding my bike i'm like oh my god i'm so bullish oh my god like you said you go faster yeah yeah yeah it's like i didn't even realize i had traveled as far as i did because i was just distracted by the podcast i'm like oh wow like am i already done with my bike ride that's that's awesome um but like i guess maybe that's a perfect segue into another thing i wanted to talk about was

which was what we're always saying he was he actually got my brain spinning i had never thought of it like this for some reason like i just he kind of like changed my my view on these things he was talking about the market size and the size of opportunity of crypto generally right where he get he went you know 200 trillion dollars his equities 200 trillion dollars in like you know bonds or whatever it was or like property and he said like i think all up you could probably push a quadrillion dollars worth of value you know just and that's not counting derivatives that's just counting like the value in all these kind of like assets right now and then he's like he's like oh well i believe crypto could capture just the equities market alone and it'd be worth 200 trillion dollars so the total crypto market cap would go

to 200 trillion it's at what two trillion now just over that so another 100x from here and then he's like no wonder there's speculation on everything the the opportunity to be even one percent of that 200 trillion dollar market cap is two trillion dollars so when you kind of look at how people are speculating on all these other chains right these whether they're ethereum killers or like ethereum friends or like other blockchains or whatever it's totally understandable because not even ethereum is worth a tr two trillion dollars yet it's not even worth one percent of that total opportunity and if ethereum is going to be worth 10 trillion dollars or probably more than that right then all of the smaller ones are definitely going to be worth hundreds of billions and stuff like that especially ones that have some usage so kind of putting it in in dollar terms

really opened my eyes to the fact that people are just going to keep speculating on these things all the time everywhere and these market caps that we're seeing right now there may be kind of like eye-popping relative to what the total market cap is but if you kind of like project out and say okay well cooper's going to take over the world like we all think it will then it's going to be hundreds of trillions of dollars as the total crypto market cap over the long term i'm not talking i'm not saying it's going to happen like next month or anything like that i'm talking like decades advertising no no i'm not right but like if you're eight being for the long term like 10 20 years or whatever then definitely like that's that's going to play out in my eyes i have no doubt that counts as a

snape um no it doesn't um i guess like that's uh that's like a human i get i don't know if you human as an adjective it's a prefrontal cortex is that that's what we're talking about yeah exactly so he just really got my kind of like brain spinning on that and kind of thinking about that and i'm just like okay and then you know obviously he was very bullish on eight saying each is the greatest trade right now from a risk reward perspective and i believe it is but the funny thing is is that if you're an eath you don't just stop at eth right you have the whole world on ethereum to ape into you have nfts you have d5 you have social tokens and dows and all this sort of stuff going on so really the opportunity even right now i know that you know

people saying you know we're still early has become a meme well i mean it's so true like i'm not even just saying that the pump bags i'm just saying that because the metrics if you look at it and you look at the value of this ecosystem it's so tiny and if you actually truly believe that crypto is going to take over the world it's going to replace the financial system nfts are going to reinvent culture and kind of like change the gaming industry then a 2 trillion dollar total crypto market cap which really is half of that is bitcoin right like how literally half of that is bitcoin which i mean is just like whatever they want to call it we don't need to yeah we don't know yeah right you know what i mean it is bitcoin yeah exactly um yeah the opportunity is massive so i

yeah i think roll really has a different way of putting these things in the context because he has like a lot of experience in like the traditional world especially the macro markets but he really makes me think bigger than i even think sometimes which which i which i really appreciated but that was just like such a bullish podcast man like jeez you guys had to do it yeah we've gotten so much like feedback on that one particular part the most feedback we've ever gotten ever with from that one particular podcast i think my favorite part of that episode was um talking about communities um and i think i think communities are kind of where ethereum really gets its meaningful network effects in in addition to the massive network effects that it already has like we already have defy and liquidity which is its own network

effects we already have like the value of ether which is a network effect now we have culture we've recently unlocked culture and so like now culture is now associated with ethereum and if culture is associated with ethereum then like communities and social organizations are also going to be on ethereum however that means right as soon and like one of the cool things about ethereum is that it actually makes more cultures more economically viable right like we are able to fund new and more culture that means we are scales culture right globally scales culture well yeah and new and importantly new cultures and and maybe old cultures whatever the cultures are the cypherpunks are that's what that's what it scales but like it also therefore like it will also fund and

scale communities and so communities will all be built on ethereum so if you have like a like the internet used to be this place where like if you had i mean if you lived in like bum [ __ ] nowhere south dakota which i didn't even know if that south dakota even exists i've never been there um don't ask me man i got no idea about the u.s yeah you don't know you don't even know i could have said anything uh so like but you're you're from bum [ __ ] nowhere uh south dakota and you have an interest in anime but you live in like a very conservative old timey town you don't have anybody any friends to go talk to anime with so where do you go you go to the internet ethereum is the economic internet and so now we get to do i don't know and open

up a new dimension of what it means to like find community it's not not only can you find communities but you can also find value right you can also find value that aligns with your communities and these communities can be economically uh viable like whatever it means to be economically viable money can money and value can be injected into these things and so now like the the and especially as like the value the role of the nation-state becomes dissolved because we stopped caring about like our our our identities oh i'm gonna go on another little side track and come back uh episode coming out the layer zero episode coming out next tuesday is with uh justin drake and justin drake talked about like how he's like lost his nation state identity to the point where like he speaks so many different languages

but he doesn't speak a single language without an accent right like every single language he speaks has an accent no matter what where he's from right and so like people are losing their affiliations for a nation state and they're gaining affiliations with communities right we are the ethereum community uh i would also consider myself a part of like the the biking community i also like to ride my bikes uh and so maybe i'll go talk to people who are on like the biking subreddit about biking or whatever like communities are going to be like they're going to be again tokenized and economically viable on aetherium making communities like the next investible like paradigm the next alpha the next place you get returns and all and communities are just going to be instantiated where defy is which is where ethereum is uh and so i i think

communities are going to be like this next big thing that like only adds even further network effects to ethereum yeah i mean we're financializing global communities because communities are already global due to the internet right but they never had like a i mean they had kind of like a financial aspect to it depending on the community and there was some stuff going on but it wasn't like you could buy a token of a community right and this goes back to what i'm saying about social tokens or community tokens where you couldn't basically um monetize or financialize your entire community to supercharge it and to get people to actually contribute to it um and you know that's why communities i think globally they do they can kind of scale i mean reddit does a pretty good job of scaling a global community because of the way it

handled its subreddits and stuff like that but i still think there's like a level up from that and obviously reddit sees that as well because they're doing their community point system they're scaling that via arbitrary now which i think is really cool but i think the financial aspect definitely just supercharges it all in in both directions to be fair like it's not always going to be rosy where prices go up forever um and it's not always going to be rosy people making money forever but it still adds another kind of like dimension to it and it gives more value back to the kind of creators and the kind of like people uh i guess making the most like you know making the post contributing the most value to this kind of like i guess community rather than driving all that value to some centralized party like uh reddit or kind

of like facebook or twitter or whatever because right now all the content that we create for twitter you know we put out there all the tweets and everything not just wait like everyone in general most of the value goes to twitter because their stock price goes up because they get more users and they get more ads they can serve my ads to people blah blah whereas you know we don't really get value out of that and if there was a decentralized social media built the right way maybe we would get value out of that because there was a token attached to it or something or we could tokenize ourselves we don't even have to rely on that we can tokenize ourselves like you guys have a bank token right the people can get exposure to to you know i guess like uh be part of the bankless ecosystem

more than just with their social capital with their financial capital as well and then if they want the token value to go up well they can contribute right they can just make you know make a gulp themselves um and there's lots of communities like this i think friends with benefits is another one that i've seen kind of pop up over the last few months get a lot of attention um there's a few others out there there's so many of these things happening and i think maybe social token isn't even the right term for it i think just doubt like it's just a token that's attached to like a dow and that people can do things add value to it it goes up or down based on that sort of stuff so yeah we really have basically made it so we can financialize global communities and scale it i think scaling is the not

scaling as in like scaling ethereum via layout or whatever i'm talking about like just scaling something in general it's usually very hard to scale a community globally but i think uh with a financial aspect to it it becomes like a bit easier to coordinate and to scale these sorts of things yeah you did you see the tweet out of jiho from actually infinity about discord uh maybe like we have to start pruning like a thousand members a day out of discord because they hit the limits of the discord size right so like the the power of tokens or and around a community and you're totally right like community tokens social tokens dow tokens these are all like different ways of talking about the same thing we haven't really come up with the best words for them but like the existence of a token inside of the

axi infinity community hit they it made the dis hit the limits of scale of discord coordination so we had this web 3 tool which is the token and it broke web 2 coordination infrastructures because it it was too big it hit the limits of scale it like broke it broke part of the internet real quick so like it's going to force the internet to become even better of like a coordination technology just because we have this thing of a token that brings so much attention and energy into it exactly exactly and it's funny because you can also like to get around that you can also use kind of like a gating mechanism i guess where you say oh you have to kind of like own these tokens to be part of this exclusive social club um maybe that doesn't work for axi but i know with friends with benefits they

have it so you have to hold a certain amount of tokens to access the club and by accessing the club you get access to all this alpha right like you get access to i mean social clubs are nothing new right there's always like generally a fee you have to pay or whatever um like whether that's to be a donation or something and maybe by buying fwb token yeah yeah so and by buying like fwb tokens you kind of like make the price go up and makes everyone a little bit richer that has the token and stuff like that so that aspect to it i think is really important as well but also you have to do it in a way that doesn't just like exclude people right because if you're trying to build a community that services everyone in the world well you can't require people who who may be kind

of like in poorer countries or whatever to buy a hundred dollars worth of a token cause 100 to them could be like a year's worth of like their salary or something depending where they are in the world so you have to find other ways to get people involved and there are like you can give tokens away for free for contributions you don't have to bring money to the table you can just bring your value through writing a blog post or doing whatever like you can get access to these clubs by just contributing value which is totally free to do um so i think that's an important aspect because you can't yeah you can't just have token gating mechanisms that's just not gonna work right yeah the the the best part about ethereum is it finds a way to like instantiate all forms of value upon it

right so like social capital actual capital like and and then also just like earning via like it's like uh axe infinities became exorbitantly priced out so priced out all of like the third world countries that love to play the games and so then they just made yield guild which like okay you don't have enough money to make to buy an axi just come part of the guild earn your way into one and then you get to have one it's like it's like when you drive an uber to to pay for your car except you don't get gouged by the company that gave you the loan which is a very nice reason yeah yeah exactly and i think that's a great way to put it uh just talking about kind of like yield guild where people can kind of come together um and kind of like act as a side chain to the

main thing where they're basically like hey you know we will do these things for you so you can have access to this which is incredibly important because we shouldn't just be building these tools for the people who have the money we should be building them for people without because they're just as important as the people with the money they're probably more important because we're gonna get more value out of this stuff than we kind of like the the people that already have the money will so i think that we need to definitely make sure that we don't just like create an exclusionary ecosystem and i know that in saying that like the ethereum gas phase are already kind of exclusionary for people who don't want to kind of have to pay 50 dollars for a trade or whatever and that's why we hop on so much about later to scaling and

that's why people like i was excited to see people use like the polygon pos chain even though that's not like a true l2 as they call it you know it's it's kind of like a side chain um people still got to experience defy on the cheap right they didn't have to pay the really high fees and that's an amazing onboarding vehicle for for people as well so i'm very like i've become more and more conscious of the fact that we need to just be very careful about not pricing people out of these things but also respecting the fact that we want to keep things decentralized and secure as well i mean the pr the reason why ethereum's fees are so high and the reason why we haven't kind of like quote unquote fixed the layer one fees is because the fix is actually worse than

um than the fees because the fixed centralizes and we don't want that in terms of like long term so we the other fix is obviously layer two scaling sharding when that comes along um and you know those kind of like shared infrastructure things like yield guild and and stuff like that and and doing other forms of subsidization subsidization to get these users on board as well totally totally anything else that you want to talk about before we close out yeah i mean i think it's funny because i think ether is going to hit all-time high soon um if it doesn't before bitcoin that's going to be a pretty big shift because it's never done that right um bitcoin was always the the leader of the big caps um but that's going to be a pretty big especially you know if that happens you know how many times we're going to

be saying the word flipping on crypto twitter oh my god i literally don't like every single tweet i don't like saying it because it's a cursed word and like uh it's not yeah it's not it's happening but it's a yeah i know it's happening but the thing is every time like people kind of like get too excited about it i actually think traders see that and they're like oh you know we're gonna go back into btc because the eighth guys are getting too too pompous here but no no i think i i think the price moving up i haven't i haven't been surprised by that at all considering we've burnt what like 176 thousand eighth right now you have it on a [ __ ] counter yeah right there it's my little ipad mini it's on ultrasound.money always i always watch it um it's actually a

good alpha tool as well because when you say the gas price spiking you can go to ultrasound.money and look at the one hour burners and see what's by the contract and it's usually an nft drop and then you can go aping to the nft drop if you want right and catch it before anyone else does but all before like a lot of other people do but um just generally i think if if i mean when not if when we go back to all-time high i think we're going to kickstart what i like to call the second wave of this bull market and it's going to get pretty crazy it's going to be crazy for everything ethereum um i think that uh where it's the reason why it's going to get crazy is not just because of the all-time high price but also because ethereum reaching it before bitcoin is a massive

shift in dynamics and it's a very big narrative break uh not to say that it can i mean bitcoin can definitely get to it before 8th can because it can't like i'm not to say it's guaranteed that it's going to happen but ethie's definitely closer right now but the narrative is is has always been like you know bitcoin runs first and everything else runs and that feels like on its head yeah exactly like ethereum doesn't wait for bitcoin anymore actually chris berniske put out a good tweet yesterday where he said bitcoin has lost its cultural hold on the crypto ecosystem i actually think it's lost it a long time ago i saw the writing on the wall a long time ago um but now i think the mainstream crypto people are seeing that and they're like you know bitcoin has lost its hold on the the culture on the market and

ethereum is kind of becoming the center point center point for this ecosystem and not just ethereum but everything else that has utility because that's what it's all about i've always been a utility maximalist at the end of the day like that's why i don't hold bitcoin i've never really liked bitcoin is because i just i can't do anything with it like i can't i know i can bring it to ethereum to do stuff with it but then why don't i just own eight instead like why would i go through the extra steps um so i think i think that uh generally the narratives are going to change very very rapidly over the next few months and we're going to see a very big shift from bitcoin being regarded as the king to ethereum being regarded as the king and i think that's going to lead us into the

flipping but i don't know if we're going to hold it the first time round there's going to be a lot of volatility and speculation around that i think ethereum is a girl's name i think that makes it a queen really fair enough fair enough um yeah yeah and that's my take that's the end of my the last of my takes for this show okay okay okay i'm gonna let you go to bed because you're really really tired it's only like 2 p.m for me i'm a little bit loopy right now yeah i literally have done five shows today oh wow okay oh good oh good um all right here is anthony daley guy uh in the chat once again so make sure you go follow him and uh subscribe to his youtube channel and once again thank you everyone for tuning in to the bankless

handshake daily quay uh every every now and then live stream thanks everyone