The Daily Gwei AMA Series #1 - 15th of May, 2021

Transcript

oh right because there's not that much funds oh okay um everyone uh just uh note before we get started please uh put yourself on mute uh unless you're talking obviously um and if you've got voice activation on uh make sure uh you're on mute because that'll activate it all right all right cool welcome everyone to the first uh delegate ama yeah uh so i decided uh you know a few days ago that i really wanted to to start doing uh weekly or probably bi-weekly uh or every couple of weeks amas just so that you guys can ask me questions anything about ethereum it doesn't have to be just me answering it if anyone else wants to you know chime in and answer or anything like that i think that'd be really cool uh because i i you know i always say

tons of questions in the discord channel when i figured you know why not just jump on on a call and you guys can ask me whatever you want and i'll try and answer as best i can uh so yeah i mean there's no real kind of structure to it like feel free to just speak up if you kind of like have a question or wanna i wanna um ask something uh but just be courteous and try not to talk about other people or anything like that uh so yeah i mean without further ado uh feel free to you know ask away uh i have a question about the ama uh will it be on stuff like uh um like for the daily way or can we ask stuff about like ethereum and other uh erc20s and stuff like that yeah anything got to do with ethereum or

even crypto in general it's uh it's pretty free-flowing so yeah feel free to ask anything it doesn't have to be about the daily way or anything like that uh i have a a question about elon's tweet yeah yeah um do you think uh like other high net worth people will follow elon's like i i think i feel like it's virtue signaling at this point because it's been there's been a lot of debunking for the environment argument but do you think like uh wales will follow that virtue signaling and decide to get out of bitcoin that's a that is a question that's for

sure um elon is a funny person he's very he's a he's eccentric right like your classic eccentric billionaire who who basically does a lot of stuff that may seem you know crazy or weird to the outside world um it makes maybe a little bit more sense when when you dive into it his recent comments about bitcoin's energy use uh while on the surface you might think you know it's surprising that he would be saying this after buying btc and he he i remember he put out a a tweet where he replied to jack the twitter ceo um you know uh and jackie tweeted out oh bitcoin encourages renewable energy uh production and then elon musk said true so you know there was some speculation that he put these comments out because he's trying to protect tesla and make

sure tesla can stay in esg friendly uh kind of like portfolios um but the actual stock uh the tesla stock uh but in terms of like him as a signal i mean i've written about it before i do think he's a pretty powerful signal among a lot of people i'm not sure how powerful he is among like other billionaires or other kind of like whales or anything like that but among like the kind of i guess you could call it general tech population people who are really into tech and and and all this sort of stuff they there seems to be a cult around around elon from from those types of people from what i've seen and don't get me wrong i i i you know i really like elon as well i love what you know what he's done with tesla and spacex and all that sort of stuff but

i don't know i just feel like it's always hard to tell what people are gonna do and what what way the market's gonna move i'm surprised that he can still have such an effect on the market uh which is i mean only i guess in the short term so i don't know i i wouldn't expect other bitcoin whales to really i don't know sell off because of that i think that you know we've been seeing bitcoin sell off into eth lately anyway so i don't know if if that's going to be a part of that right where we see this continued sell-off people people buy either their bitcoin or you know i i listened to a podcast the other day um on bank list with suzu and kyle davies and sue basically said that you know people are flying to their cold storage bunkers to unlock their bitcoin

to trader for eighth now you know i don't know if he was just like saying that i don't know like how much truth there is to that but i mean that was happening before elon's tweets so i think that there's a lot more to it than just one person's kind of like tweets and signaling uh for these people to make moves with with their money and i you know i i've always considered bitcoin's energy kind of usage a really bad narrative for bitcoin whether it's true or not that it uses too much energy or whatever i don't necessarily think that matters and i've spoken about this on the refuel of course but essentially what really matters is that is the narrative that takes hold right and what everyone else wants to kind of like believe about this sort of stuff um so yeah hopefully that answers your question it

i don't think there is a straight answer for it i think that you have to consider the whole and and how different rational actors will will act um but i'm yeah i'm not sure if if elon's comments are going to influence that too much yep that's a great answer thank you no worries i just noticed my camera died oh there it is cool yeah if anyone feel free to ask anything or chime in i guess like to what i was just talking about maybe someone else has a different opinion to me i'd love to hear other people's opinions on the energy use debate i think that's like you know pretty hot right now uh and definitely going to get hotter as

time goes on uh i i've kind of like i guess said that for a while that i thought that that would be something that it's going to be hard for bitcoin to defend against um but yeah curious to hear anyone else's thoughts that have done deeper research into this uh i mean uh i was i was asking about it because uh it seems like from uh anthony pompliano's uh like uh sub stack he put out some like reassurance that the the wallets uh the like mid-tier wallets are increasing but he did mention that the like the super high net worth wallets are decreasing

but i think you're right in that there is the effect of you know people just switching into eth just for the uh riding the the wave up on eip1559 and and the merger so it you can't really you can't really differentiate between elon's tweet and that effect and so yeah that's my thoughts mm-hmm yeah there's there's so much going on and there's so many yeah different reasons why people sell and what they sell into um you know and and what part of the cycle it is i did see something about like you know uh large bitcoin wallets kind of getting you know reducing in in size but again that could be because the price

went up so much and or they you know they could be trading it for eighth i mean eth has had a pretty amazing price movement especially on the ratio for for quite a while now against bitcoin so yeah it could be for a number of reasons but i do think that elon bringing you know more attention to the energy um debate is you know it's it's accelerating what i thought about uh you know what i thought was inevitable debate anyway and it's you know bitcoiners are doing like a pretty good job of of you know putting together information and trying to defend against this but at the end of the day i don't know how much how much luck they're gonna have because you know if you really think about it climate change is pretty much i think the number one threat facing humanity right

so you know whether people actually listen to to other people's reasoning behind this or just take a a hard approach and say well you know if we can you know if we can reduce our energy consumption uh then we should and there's moral arguments about this and all that sort of stuff but i guess for me it really comes down to how complex it is to explain these things it's really complex for bitcoin is to explain to people uh things like you know how much energy is bitcoin using how much is it of it is renewables does it actually encourage more renewable energy um rather than something like ethereum or or ethereum people saying well we don't even have proof of work anymore we have proof of stake right and we don't even use this energy anymore once once the merger happens and that's just

a much simpler thing to do than try to convince you know swathes of people like if you look at what happened with the nfts and i don't know if some of you saw it on twitter there were literally you know thousands and thousands of thousands of people who were just like you know completely uh against uh nfts because of their energy use and they they didn't listen to reason a lot of their arguments were you know were pretty pretty stupid if i'm being honest i i saw a lot of them but but the thing is about with a lot of this is that the narrative is always more powerful than the reality and the narrative of cryptocurrencies in the energy that they use specifically bitcoin right i know ethereum is is is pretty pretty bad here as well but that narrative is just so powerful

and i don't think any kind of like uh you know debate is gonna is gonna help with that in the long run i just think that it's gonna be so hard to win that narrative war feel free to i guess anyone else who wants to ask about uh anything anything ethereum anything anything crypto uh anything you're wondering about maybe you want some clarity on what happens with the merge or with one five five nine you know all that sort of stuff feel free to feel free to ask you have a question that's not related to the energy thingy uh it's actually related to the fact that a lot of it there's a lot of talk about

institutions buying bitcoin and then there's a lot of talk about institutions buying ethereum and mainly that they're on the sidelines but is there a possibility that corporations and institutions are not interested in buying bitcoin or ethereum but are going straight into maybe ucdc um the coin of uh the stable coin of uh was called coinbase so they're probably circumventing buying bitcoin or ethereum they're inside the crypto ecosystem but it has no effect on the price itself because they're into stable coins and they just circumvented the ethereum cryptocurrencies and others yeah i i think definitely um but i i think you know even if you look at uh how institutions play these things i mean there was a tweet the other day from

stani that said that they're working with some institutions in some private pool to intro them to d5 so even if they are only playing in stable coins or buying usdc or whatever other stable coin it is to maybe you know yield farm or maybe they want to you know uh basically use it as cloud rule and borrow against using these protocols or whatever i still think the magic of ethereum is that that's actually positive because that's adding more usage to the ethereum chain and then post eip1559 it means that eth is getting burnt every time these institutions make transactions uh just like everyone else making a transaction so in a roundabout way it's actually good that they're buying stable coins um anyway for each value and i think that

institutions are going to get a lot more use out of ethereum and their will out of bitcoin and i was actually thinking about this the other day what if institutions stockpile like ethan have to buy eth because they're like well we're doing all these transactions and we know that we have to pay you know fees to do so uh so we need to buy some ethers like operational expenditures and then they buy the eave and then they use it and they burn it so effectively not only are they putting you know buy pressure on on eath because they need it for transaction fees but they're also removing most of it from the that they've bought from the supplier once they use it um so yeah they can definitely skip skip the assets but the beauty of ethereum post one five five nine is that they have to use ether anyway to

pay fees and they have to contribute to eth's economic value which i think is pretty cool and i guess like on that note too now that i think about it like i actually think a lot of businesses will want to get into staking whether that be as a treasury kind of diversification where they buy some eath and they stake it as like what bankless likes to call the internet bond and stuff like that i do think that that can happen too uh but yeah institutions have just much more options with ethereum like with bitcoin all they could do is buy btc and put it on their balance sheet and you know they're doing that for different reasons as they

as they as for why they would buy eth like they're doing it as a you know they say they're doing it as an inflation hedge and a diversification strategy for their treasury but uh i i think buying you know buying ethers there's so many more reasons to to buy it and to use it and to do whatever you want with it on the network so from that perspective yeah i just i don't know i think institutions coming to ethereum is much more bullish than them doing stuff with bitcoin at the end of the day do you also think that when the institutions finally come and they're buying their stable coins do you think that there will be a market for other stable coins than the dollars like for example the australian dollar or the euro because there's a couple of um pools and other um projects that want to introduce

non-usd stable coins but they're not really getting off the ground it's like there's not really a market for it just yet yes yeah that's something that obviously i uh really would love to to to happen obviously because i'm in australia i do think that's just a function of of the size of the the market right now it's still very very small like i know that ethereum has been growing like rapidly over the last few months but in terms of the people using it it's still very small it's still very uh i think americanized there are definitely people in australia using it i know of a couple of projects working on non-usd stable coins like handle finance and dvx or dfx something like that i remember seeing on twitter um so yeah i mean you know if there's australian institutions and they want to

play in in d5 well then they're gonna need an aod stablecoin and uh you know i've spoken to the uh handle finance uh one of the founders at handle finance and he was saying the same thing he's just like yeah this is just a pain point for for these sorts of um you know institutions or even individuals at the end of the day so i think it's gonna happen but you know i think there are some euro stable coins right now that have some traction not not really that much uh but i think it's just a function of like liquidity begets liquidity the usd stablecoin was the first one like with tether and you know uh things like that so uh yeah i i think that it'll happen over time i'm just not sure how quickly i would have figured it would happen quicker to be honest but

maybe everyone's just fine holding usd right now so why can't they use something like dye which is just ethereum based so like commonwealth bank they couldn't like set up dive vaults or something you know as a back-end to them but to their front-end users just combat gap and they're getting you know percent 10 whatever interest i mean they they certainly could but i would argue that uh there's still a lot of risks uh with a lot of this stuff there's still a lot of things that uh um you know can go wrong obviously uh there's still you know liquidity issues like if you think about it these these banks have like

trillions of dollars collectively in deposits and if they start moving that amount of capital in um you know it might cause some kind of maybe not instability but it will cause like uh maybe maybe die goes off pay because they buy too much of it right i think uh die has inherent risks where uh it can depend pretty you know quite easily uh uh depending on supply and demand dynamics and things like that uh but yeah long term they're all going to play i just think that we're not big enough for them yet not to do that sort of stuff considering how much capital they have under management but i mean i would even think that they could just like they're not going to do this but they could just like have a have a portal in where users can deposit their own funds in and do whatever they want

i don't think they're going to do that and i don't think they need to do that because we have um you know nate crypto native or ethereum native apps that do that uh but but yeah i see that happening long term for sure i mean that's the whole point of device to like you know replace the existing financial system but we're still like so small you know total value locked is what 80 billion right now that is literally a rounding error for the traditional finance system like that that means nothing to them um you know the the the the volume on decentralized exchanges is really promising and things like that but you know still uh for for a global system it can still be a lot higher uh and the liquidity can still be a lot higher so i think once once that happens then institutions can start moving in in

a bigger way but you know as stanis said they they want private pools right now they want to to you know see how it all works they want to see what the risks are before they quote unquote ape in right into into like public defy so yeah it's just going to take take time i think uh still very early obviously just following up on that question with regard to eurostablecoins is there is anyone do you know the way maker are obviously the owners of dye are they under they're considering other assets like maybe like gold or something like this in the future is it possible that something like maker would create a euro stable coin or is that out of the realm of

i would need to be a different dow or something like this no i think they can um it's just using the collateral to issue a different asset rather than die um originally the fun fact about maker was that they actually had plans to not peg to the us dollar and peg to a basket of currencies and just create like this stable coin that wasn't pegged to any one fiat currency uh there's a there's a there's a particular name for it um it's it wasn't invented in crypto space uh for this basket of currencies i can't remember what it was called exactly but um yeah there was that plan back in the day and they did have from memory they'd have plans to issue non-usd uh stable coins here but i think that the demand just isn't there yet from

what i've seen uh and but but there's no from what i understand there's nothing stopping maker from being able to issue other assets and you i mean you could even issue non-stable coin assets against the collateral right they're just synthetic assets at the end of the day so you could you could issue any synthetic that you wanted just like how synthetics does it where you put up snx collateral you can issue susd and s8 and sbtc and whatever else you want right it's the same for maker but i think with maker they've made dye like the centerpiece and they want to scale that up to as as as much as they can to generate like you know lots and lots of revenue for the maker platform uh but yeah i mean i i expect maybe sometime in the future they'll be able to introduce non

uh non-usd dye and you know do a die for like euro or aud or whatever else perfect thanks awesome i've just been thinking about um how much longer until um you're gonna do the dance oh man the dance uh that's gonna follow me forever um i don't know i just i keep putting it off right you know i think to myself if i do this and i put it out there it's on the internet forever uh you know uh i i should do it eventually um i i will do i should say i will do it eventually um but you should do it on the flipping when the flipping happens then you do it yeah yeah i feel like the flipping is a bit is a bigger event than

eath reaching its old all-time high that was the original promise um you know that's so so long ago now now that i'm thinking about it 14 20 and we're at 4k like uh it's such a funny thing um but but yeah the flipping i mean i think we're all going to be dancing when the flipping happens yeah big time now on that note i guess like i can i mean i can give some thoughts i've been having lately about the flipping and and what it means for like the space overall uh i think it's it's funny because it's been this thing that's been talked about since like 2017 all right the first run-up of eth like everyone was talking about it back then it got really close um and then it didn't happen and then eth went into a really really really

brutal bear market as we all know from 28 2018 and 2019 but in terms of like what it means for the space i don't i don't hate bitcoin but i think it's just so limited right like digital gold like how many people actually care about that or get get use out of it like i understand that holding bitcoin um you know gives you access to this like non-state affiliated money you know self-sovereign money and self-sovereign monetary system but to me ethereum affords you the same kind of guarantees with eth right ethereum to me is just as decentralized as bitcoin uh and obviously it's evolving and moving and and going through big upgrades but these are upgrades that were kind of like part of the social contract you know proof of stake has been around for a while uh as an idea since basically you know

the the day ethereum was announced like vitalik was thinking about it same with sharding and layer 2 as well i mean d5 was even in the white paper like it wasn't called d5 but it was vitalik was alluding to you know financial applications on on blockchain so from from that point of view i don't know i just think that the flipping will be extremely healthy for the ecosystem i don't think it'd be very healthy for bitcoin though and i said this today on the bankless live stream i did with david hoffman uh what happens when bitcoin's number two like what keeps it at number two like why can't it just keep dropping from that why can't it drop out of the top ten like the whole value prop of bitcoin is that it's number one you know it's the hardest money it's the soundest money

it's the thing that everyone wants you know you stack sats whatever but when it loses its number one spot all those narratives go out the window so i think that's why the flipping is going to be such a big deal is that it kills a lot of these these narratives for bitcoin and i know i mean i don't blame bitcoin as for for what they're what they're doing lately where they you know how hard they're coping because it really is in my view an existential threat to to bitcoin's kind of um you know over our overarching goal because the digital gold niche and i call it a niche because it is a niche um it's got a very small tam like totally adjustable market ethereum has it's not even ethic asset but ethereum the network the tam is the entire population of earth and you know

other planets eventually right so from that point of view i just don't see how ethereum doesn't flip and that's been my theory the whole time is that utility over belief um and you know ethereum has belief and eth has belief as an asset in it too but the ethereum network works to back up all that utility so yeah i don't know i don't know if anyone else has a different opinion there but to me the flipping would be the healthiest thing that could ever happen to this ecosystem and and i think the ecosystem would actually go from being like a you know a joke to a lot of the outside world to to to not that because i've seen multiple threads on reddit where people were saying you know they don't understand why bitcoin is valuable why would they should care about digital gold but but they actually um have found

ethereum and talking about ethereum and like i could see you know that they say they could see applications for like d5 and you know human coordination like with diaz and things like that so i think from that point of view i mean it's just utility is worth more to people than you know digital gold it's and and i think that's just going to remain that way forever i agree i'm curious if anyone else has like other thoughts on that i know we're all uh ethereum people here maybe not ethmaxis but definitely people interested in ethereum but i'm always curious to hear uh thoughts against that like i haven't come across anyone who's been able to convince me that bitcoin being number two isn't a catastrophic thing for bitcoin yeah it's just a random chit chat but

like if ethereum does flip bitcoin like this is all speculation of course if ethereum does flip bitcoin people have been saying what's what's the staff dodge from next flipping btc and i completely agree because zero i just can't do anything with it and what you said about does anyone and you know the younger generation collect old no just be no use for it whatsoever so utility i think i completely agree with you exactly and that's my my entire kind of views but yeah especially with younger people is that none of them really i mean most of them i shouldn't say none of them but most of them don't really resonate with uh with with the digital gold thesis i believe uh i think that they resonate with the utility of the ethereum network

much more because i mean the utility isn't just one thing either it's not like we have you know some sort of kind of like little d5 thing happening here i know d5 is like you know broad in itself and then we also have everything else happening nfts and dows and and all the other good stuff that that we haven't even thought of yet so i don't know for me like ethereum is is the infinity network right i've written about this before it's just like you can do anything you want on it and it's like you know and and someone on twitter some of you might know antiprosynthesis uses this comparison a lot but he basically says bitcoin is a calculator and ethereum is a general purpose computer right bitcoin is really good at being a calculator but ethereum is his general purpose which is a superset of that so

ethereum has a calculator right does everything bitcoin can do but it does like you know so much more so uh yeah that's always been kind of like the thesis i think i've got a question um do you hear me yes yeah i hear you basically the other day i bought something with my metamask um wallet and so i paid the normal fees but then a friend of mine bought the same thing with finance and he only paid like one dollar so i just wanted to know why binance have this system and and ethereum cannot replicate do you mean the trading fee or the gas fees regardless

of you yeah yeah so yeah and he bought it on binance smart chain i'm assuming not binance the exchange yeah probably yeah yeah that's what i'm assuming because like so i guess i'm not sure how familiar you are with with kind of like uh binance smart chain and its differences to ethereum but i can essentially give the rundown so um binance smart channel bsc as it's known is is a fork of ethereum it is a complete copy clone of ethereum it uses the exact same underlying technology um it does everything the same like if you go to bsc scan i mean it's a clone of ether scan um you know metamask works with it and everything like that and and and the experience is

very similar because of of that now the key difference is that binance smart chain is is centralized it is not a decentralized blockchain it does not have proof of work or proof of proof of stake it has 21 validators that um you know are all basically controlled by binance and they basically validate blocks on the on the chain now because you've only got these 21 validators and you don't have a massive kind of like a decentralized network with thousands of different nodes you don't have to essentially worry too much about uh things like the block size so the block size on ethereum is called the gas limit the gas limit on ethereum right now is 15 million so if it's essentially a cap on how many transactions can be in a block uh and with bsc

their a gas limit the last time i checked was 60 million so already they have over 3x the capacity but they've also lowered the block time so with ethereum the block time is 13 seconds and the block time needs to be um you know it can't be too low because then what ends up happening is that the whole network can't validate the blocks in time and you risk a change split because every time a block is produced it needs to be validated by all nodes and if if it's too short of time like if it's like you know say it's it's on bsc it's three seconds but if it was three seconds on ethereum you would have uh the instability of the chain because there would be more frequent kind of chain splits due to the nodes not being able to keep up with each other um so

and as i said the final thing bsc lowered uh their block times to three seconds here um which which essentially means that they can do 60 million gas gas limit every three seconds instead of ethereums 15 million gas every 13 seconds so essentially it's much more than a 3x upgrade it's it's it's it's it's huge if i do the math in my head it'd be over 10x easily um and that's why the fees uh are lower not because they've invented some new way to do something and some new technology they've just taken ethereum ripped out its decentralization and and called it scalable that that is i guess like as concise as i can put it let me know if any of that needs further explanation that's fine thank you yeah it's it's

kind of a i guess like a a big debate within the the community and things like that like whether people actually care about decentralization or anything like that my view on bsc kind of like evolved over time originally i really hated it i really hated the marketing around it and i really thought it was a negative for the ecosystem because it just kind of tricked people into thinking they were using a decentralized platform when they weren't but then i learned to love it because it actually gives people a cheap onboarding experience uh or ethereum like onboarding experience because they downloaded metamask they use bsc scan which is as i said a clone of ether scan they use uh you know pancake swap which is essentially a clone of uni-swap and they get to do all that really cheaply and then once ethereum you know scales via layer 2 and we get there and

we get these kind of like our apps live and everything like that we get these bridges in these users who may have never used um you know d5 before or ethereum before now have a very quick and easy way to do that because they have metamask already installed and they're already used to the experience of bsc so they can just come over to to ethereum and enjoy those kind of low fees there so i actually think i mean the price is is fine for eath as well so it's not like bsc has been bearish i actually think bsc ironically has been pretty bullish for for ethereum in general i don't know if anyone else has a different different thought on that i thought i i don't know it was just it's just funny watching it kind of play

out over the last few months and seeing uh i mean i saw some people say it just shows how much demand there is to use ethereum i i kind of buy that but at the same time i think it shows that there are a lot of people sitting on the sidelines that um you know couldn't use this technology or just wouldn't because they didn't know about it i think binance is a great you know funnel for for bsc uh obviously they have a direct bridge and everything like that uh but then again i think it's just like a trojan horse and these people are gonna use ethereum once we get more scaling solutions out there and allow them to use just i mean at the end of the day most of these people are just using you know the swappers like the amms like uni swap

and stuff like that that's what most of the network is doing so if we can offer that to people for really cheap but with ethereum security and decentralization which we will be able to very very soon and we already can on things like loop ring but i think the game really changes once uniswap deploys on a layer 2 i think that's really going to be awesome to see how many new users flock flock in from that thank you all good yeah anyone else i think i saw a few new people join uh feel free to chime in at any time with a question i don't think i'm going to be doing a

token sorry to disappoint everyone um i yeah that's a whole can of worms i don't want to open uh you know i think you know i think bankless doing it is fine it's actually going to be really interesting to see how that plays out because uh it's just an experiment but yeah the daily way i just want to keep like obviously like free like everything free but i also don't want to attach like a token to it i don't know if there's a purpose really to it will you at least nfd or dance video uh i mean yeah okay i'll end up taking the dance video and people can bid on it if they want and i'll donate the proceeds to charity for sure um do you have are you bullish on a particular

social coin or like a one of those uh like uh community coins or uh platforms that allow you to make uh uh community coins yeah i've been pretty critical of of community coin social tokens in the past i think a lot of them aren't going to do very well i think a lot of them are misguided i think a lot of them look like scams but there are there have there has been a community that i have been made aware of i think a couple months ago and i've been loosely following called friends with benefits uh it's run by a few guy a few people that i know one of them cooper turley who's a good friend of mine he's part of the core team um i think that can work i just the the token like i mean i hold

some of the token but i wouldn't say like i'm holding it expecting it to go 100x or whatever or even like 10x or whatever um or it's like making any money to be honest but um i'm holding it for access to the to the group because it's like you buy the token you get access to the group and stuff like that but i think i think at the end of the day the the social tokens will just become like dow tokens at the end that's kind of like their function where they're used as coordination tools i guess like even the bankless token bank um is like a social token right where they've got a dow set up and people have these tokens and it's part of a media organization and you can vote on proposals and do all this sort of stuff um you know and there's other ways to do

the social tokens like you can do like profit sharing with an individual where an individual can say okay well you know all of the the money that i make i'm going to share 10 with my community uh and you can find me like this way or like you know invest in my my startups that i do this way and i've seen some people do that i don't i don't know i think maybe that's really really early still so yeah but the yeah the only project in that space that i've been following loosely has been it's one called friends with benefits uh they've got a pretty active discord uh it's it's pretty cool i go in there sometimes and just browse around but yeah i think too early to tell kind of like how that that whole kind of sector's gonna shake out i think that makes sense

uh jacob i saw that you had a question before as well if you wanted to chime in um yeah can you hear me well man yes yeah cool cool uh well firstly thanks for organizing this man and for all the uh good content um so basically i'm i'm pretty new to crypto um and yeah i apologize if i asked like very basic questions and i don't want to waste anyone's time but um so i have a question about defy um that there's so much information on it and there's so many different accents protocols and like the information is like quite overwhelming

um like just to grasp it all and so my question is where would you say is a good starting point like to to get basic knowledge and and and something that's also low risk because people say that defy is like getting involved in defy is higher risk than just holding ether and yeah and also now if is outperforming defy generally which is a bit discouraging to you know swap these for defy tokens so so just wanted to to know your view on that basically yeah so in terms of of getting started

with with d5 i think bankless does the best uh work here um that like obviously the the daily gray or maybe not obviously but the delegate is definitely not for beginners uh the content that i produce um and that's because i think bankless is is really great at that and i think the defiant and defy dad as well so if you want to note those down if you haven't come across them yet uh d5 dad does a lot of tutorials on different d5 applications he's really really great and he also has something called yield tv because he works at zappa um so and that has uh there are a lot of really good videos as well bankless has you know a whole kind of media empire essentially they have like the newsletter and the youtube and the podcast uh but they have a really good guide um

called getting started with bankless if you just google that you'll be able to find that one and it's got it's it's it's super comprehensive it's it's basically here's how you get started with with d5 and go bankless essentially uh so those three would be the the top kind of ones that i would pay attention to uh bank list the defiant and d5 yield tv for beginner guides um and in terms of of risk yes i mean defy is is definitely riskier than just holding the asset of course like you can just hold eth or d5 tokens in cold storage or on a ledger or whatever and it's it's it's fine it's safe and you know uh but as soon as you start putting your you know your tokens or ether whatever into d5 protocols then you expose

yourself to smart contract risks because these smart contracts are written by humans yes a lot of them are audited and what's called formally verified but there could still be bugs and as we've seen this there's plenty of defy kind of hacks out there and that definitely is scary uh you can you know there's there's insurance protocols you can take insurance out against it and things like that if you're if you want to but generally uh you know i think there's there's there's like a risk spectrum essentially i would consider the safest d5 apps to be the biggest ones like make a dow has been around for quite a while all of their code is heavily audited heavily formally verified uh and their their original system ran well for many years and and no hacks or or exploits or whatever uh compound same kind of situation there

uh uni swap uh rv these are like the top protocols and i would consider them to be the least riskiest there is still risk but they're not as risky as some of these newer ones um yeah and there's plenty of newer ones right or what you can call like the long tail of d5 apps that definitely have a lot more risk attached to them so i wouldn't like put all my money into into it i my strategy essentially is to kind of i guess like take my money and like put it on like a few different apps to kind of spread my risk and take out some insurance on it um but at the end of the day it depends how much money you're playing with it depends on how much yield you want to generate obviously the riskier the the protocol uh the more yield you're going to get

because there's going to be less people in that pool uh you know and and that's why people kind of like go into these things because there's sometimes like yield farming opportunities with with token rewards and things like that so yeah i would say that just understand the risks understand that there's a risk spectrum where the top d5 apps are at the top uh mainly in terms of like total value locked i would say mainly because of the fact that they're been around for a while they're secure they're extremely reputable they've been audited by you know i think ibv2 was audited by five different in you know independent auditors auditing companies and i'm pretty sure i'm not i'm not sure if rpv2 was formally verified but i know that maker has been formally verified which is a way to essentially what formal verification does is is it

allows you to have guarantees that the code that you have written will do what you told it to do but in saying that there's still possibility of bugs no matter how many audits or whatever goes on but you know typically with with security the longer something has been secure people think that you know the more i guess like the more trustworthy it is because they think okay well if it hasn't been exploited by now then there's a lot of chances of it being exploited i don't really buy into that i think that sometimes there are just things that people miss even the smartest people in the world and then one guy comes along one day and just kind of like finds an exploit right so definitely things are scary but in saying that and on top of the insurance protocols the protocols themselves can actually

make users whole and we've seen this play out in the past where uh there was a yearn vault um that that got drained i think and they were able to make users whole by essentially collateralizing the treasury's uh wi-fi tokens um uh in maker drawing die and paying that die uh uh sorry kind of like f you'll find me with that die and paying back users who had fun stolen from from the yield generator i think that's how they did it and there's other ways to do it you know maker will print mkr tokens to cover any losses um not not for users but for like the protocol um rv has a staking pool that acts as insurance um there's a few other protocols that have this as well so there's there's that aspect to it too so um those those are the kind of

like risks and to answer your final question uh unfortunately don't give financial advice or investment advice of course but in terms of of um just general how the market works it ebbs and flows there's just cycles that play out sometimes ether will be doing really well against defy sometimes d5 will be doing really well against eighth uh sometimes you know bitcoin will be really doing really well against everything and then everything else will be bleeding against it but this is essentially why it's very very very hard to outperform either the index of a market or the the the kind of like assets like btc and eth because of the fact that you have to like time yourselves you have to time your entries you have to uh basically uh you know deal with all the emotions that come with that all the anxiety and stress and

everything uh so you know as i said uh i can't really give you any investment advice but you know it's the same kind of thing there's a spectrum of kind of risk you you can take the the riskier assets that you buy um you know potentially higher upside also potentially higher downside uh so that's why a lot of people just like to stick with eth because uh you know eighth captures value pretty well from the network and it will capture value even better with with one five five nine and proof of stake and all that sort of stuff but yeah generally it just works in cycles and uh it's very hard to outperform eth and bitcoin and it's very hard to outperform an index too especially for newer investors thank you so much it's it's really um

like helpful answer i already follow bank list but i'll check out the other two um just another question and uh that's just like trying to look into the future you know like bitcoin has had its time and it was totally dominant and like from you know from all the information out there i like i really believe in in ethereum but do you think like 10 15 years ahead uh you you kind of accept the possibility that there might be other new chains that will create something that that's you know that outperforms uh ethereum you know as an asset uh

did you look in the future and do you ever have these thoughts like at 15 20 years ahead um um sorry go on yeah yeah that was basically the question yeah i mean so it's funny because you can look at some of these other chains and you can see that they've outperformed eighth right um but as i said it is all uh based on risk and the amount of risk you want to take on and you know the the way you invest because your chance of picking something uh or a chain that's going to outperform eighth right in the long run and as i said outperform eth from the moment you buy it and the moment you sell it and accounting for taxes i mean depending where you are right the taxes can be quite high

uh you know and because you because you have to denominate in in fiat you can't denominate in in eat so if you trade your eighth for something and then you you make a profit right well you have to account for taxes and then that eats into your profits and you're you're basically denominated in fiat so eat might be much higher so you may have been you may make a profit in fiat but you might be down in eighth because of that as well so there's that sort of stuff to consider but definitely i mean there's no doubt in my mind that just from a pure kind of investment perspective there will be things that outperform eth for sure and and not just d5 but other chains tokens and things like that for one reason or another uh because they've got much smaller market caps too i mean

ether is a half a trillion dollar asset or almost these days i think you know depending on what the price is any given day you know almost a half a trillion dollar asset bitcoins a trillion dollars um it just takes a lot more money to move these things that's why people love playing and investing in the smaller coins is because as i said there's much higher you know potential for upside for higher upside but also the downside as well and and as i said i i think people overlook the fact that you need to time your entry and exit too to an account for taxes and then you know see if you're net profitable at the end especially if you're trading your your etho or even bitcoin for it so um but in terms of like i mean even on the on the other side of

it like platforms in the future that could uh you know get usage and and kind of like be complimentary to ethereum or or essentially like you know maybe i don't know overtake ethereum if you want to go that far i mean it's always a possibility it's always a risk i'm a firm believer that technology needs to keep evolving over time to to to be valuable that's why i think the bitcoin is going to get flipped because it just fails to evolve and it doesn't do it it doesn't service enough people hasn't evolved to service enough people and enough users so you know if ethereum stagnates and ethereum is not filling uh users needs then for sure other protocols and other chains can you know can gain on it and i think we already saw that happen with something like bsc even though it is it

is centralized it offered users something that ethereum can't right now and that's super low fees and and fast faster transactions uh so yeah we've already seen that play out i think and it's gonna it's it's very hard to tell what's gonna happen 15 to 20 years from now uh even like five years from now it's it's basically impossible my bet obviously is on ethereum remaining dominant um ethereum is evolving at a rapid pace there's still lots of development going on but from an investment perspective you know you can play it any which way you want uh it's whichever which way you're comfortable with and just as an example of of something uh there was a chain that in 2017 called aeon that was at the time everyone was really bullish on they're like okay it's an interoperability protocol it's

going to build bridges between different chains it's going to be awesome blah blah blah and you know i had some aon i traded my eighth for it back then uh which i regret doing uh because if you look at the a on eighth pair right now um it's it's really bad like it's basically down like something like over 95 uh and that's just one there's other ones out there two that are that are that are down against ethan and it's just been like the i think the newer protocols like uh i know solana has been pretty good against eighth lately in terms of performance and things like that but it's just very hard to it's the same kind of thing with d5 tokens but maybe in the long run some of these protocols can survive but picking them is hard picking the winners is definitely is definitely hard

yeah man the intention of my question wasn't necessarily from an investment perspective but more like understanding the future of crypto and how it can uh you know solve humanity's problems like ethereum obviously does so much and if it replaces the financial system it can be absolutely awesome like the world's gonna be you know such a better place but yeah just uh yeah man um thanks for the answer yeah yeah and i mean on that note there's other yeah definitely uh ethereum like i believe is going to be the the backbone for the for the new financial system and i do believe that there's other chains out there that will fill niches uh i'm particularly bullish on like the

utility chains like filecoin and rweeb i don't own any of the tokens and this isn't about the tokens but in terms of what they can enable the what's called permaweb where essentially you can have like permanent um you know uh forever storage on a peer-to-peer network where people are incentivized to keep files and things like that i think that obviously serves a massive use uh because at the end of the day we're trying to decentralize as much as we can trying to get back to the original vision of what the internet was supposed to be which was a decentralized uh protocol so yeah definitely keeping an eye on some of these other things but they work to enhance ethereum as well i think awesome yeah anyone else feel free to

chime in if you've got if you've got a question about anything it doesn't have to be ethereum related it can be crypto related i saw a couple people go off mute there maybe they didn't want to talk over each other oh no try not to talk over someone who is

attempting to ask a question no yeah i think it's fine i think yeah go ahead if you had a question i just wondering if you're following anything on uniswap and the layer two possibilities uh very generous i don't follow up too closely but i'm very excited for it yeah they've been a bit quiet on that front i mean hayden adams put a tweet out the other day uh saying that we need layer two now or whatever something along those lines remember exactly what the tweet was and they have said that they were going to deploy to optimism shortly after they deployed v3 it's now been 10 days since v3 we haven't heard anything about optimism and you know from i'm hearing from some people in the industry that uh you know

optimism is not optimistic as optimistic as sorry they're not as optimistic on it as as they would like to be there are other solutions out there um you know and coming and i think that it's it's good that we're not going to just rely on optimism like uh we have arbitrary you know zk stink and starkware and polygon and all these sort of things so i think what uniswap needs to do is not be kind of like maximalist about it they can deploy to optimism when it's ready that's all well and good but i think users are hungry right now so in my opinion unisop should deploy to everything that's ready today whether you know that's polygon arbor trims coming out with their devnet on 28th of may so uniform will be able to deploy on there and other trim uses optimistic rollups similar technology

to optimism as well uh starkware is going to bring out their generalized evm layer 2 and ck sync 2. so yeah on that front i just hope that uni swap doesn't choose to go down the maximalism route and just go with optimism i hope that they just deploy unit swap to multiple layer twos very nice uh you your uh advisor for polygon or sorry the matic team correct yeah that's correct yeah and there's their layer two is is it tied in any way to finance or no is it just separate things no i mean their their whole platform they originally did a an ieo an initial exchange offering on binance a long time ago

for for the tokens but no they're not tied to to finance in any way in terms of like uh their actual platforms um and yeah i mean polygon was known as matic network uh you know until a few months ago they did the rebrand i think in january so uh but yeah there i don't think there's any ties there right now cheers thank you i had a question regarding the air dropping of governance tokens for the first kind of ad ups you just had to old ethereum like for example with a mesa go if you had ethereum you could you could get these omg tokens there dropped uh later on in 2020 they changed it to the second kind of vendor where they had to use the dap in order to get an ad drop like with unit swap if you use the

if you use the dab you get uni tokens and what you're seeing now is that projects are add dropping tokens to get coin donators and this annoys me a little bit because you're basically buying funding in a win quick national way there's no promise whatsoever for an the hopes or an ad addre so it's it's kind of iffy to me and my question regarding this all to you is what do you think is the future of ad drops or in other words how do you see projects trying to address to the right users because that's what they're trying to do essentially yeah this is something that i've been thinking about a fair bit lately actually i'm and i'm glad you asked the question here i think air dropping is a cat and mouse game because once you do an airdrop once in some way uh it gets

gamed the next way i mean we saw this play out after the uni-swap airdrop where you know people were trying to game the one-inch airdrop and one-inch basically saw that and and basically uh was able to get around that and things like that but now yes definitely we're seeing it being gamed with the git coin donors because there was an air drop done to get coin donors and people were like well i better just donate just in case because i could get an air drop out of this and there will be other protocols that airdrop to to bitcoin donors and i do think it muddies the waters there and unfortunately you know i don't think there's much bitcoin can do about this there's no real way to prove it i mean if these users are legit and they're donating one dollar for example i mean that's the

same as just a normal user donating one dollar um you know to a project but i guess on that note the future of airdrops i don't know to be honest i think there's still a lot of experimentation that can happen here but it always results in this cat and mouse game where once you do an airdrop in some way it's just going to end up getting games for another project so um i think that the future might have might just be like you know essentially something got to do with maybe a hybrid of like liquidity mining slash airdrop where you you do work for the protocol um you know in some sort of way whether that be with your capital or you do work um with with um like actual work not just with your money to liquidity mine

uh that you know i actually think airdrops in general aren't the greatest way to distribute tokens anyway and a perfect example of this is a project that i'm pretty close to called index co-op where they only airdropped one percent of uh of tokens uh two of indexed tokens when they launched back in september two dpi holders and they'd only been like um uh two months worth of dpi uh lifetime so there wasn't that many holders but one percent isn't very much right and they kept most of the supply in the treasury and what they have been doing over time is they've been rewarding these index tokens to actual contributors uh that have have done things for for the index co-op which is which is essentially a dow um whether that be you know creating content um doing work like business development

uh you know any sorts of things like develop doing dev work hosting community calls whatever i think that's a better way of doing it because what ends up happening is you get tokens into the hands of the right people the ones that actually uh are part of the the the dow they've done the work aren't just parasitic um and haven't just been you know just giving you a donation or used your app once and now expecting some free money uh so i actually think that's the best model and their community is extremely vibrant i mean i encourage anyone who is interested in getting involved with a dow or a community uh particularly in d5 to check out the index card because what they've created by by harnessing these these really good incentive mechanisms through through contributor rewards

is that they've got a massive group of people now who are pretty autonomous actually it's actually a true dao where these people go out they do work and then they come together and index token holders can vote on proposals to pay out these contributors uh each i think it's each month the cadence that they do it on so i do think that airdrops there's there's really not much of a future for them i think the future is is distributing tokens in a much much fairer and and i guess like much better way hopefully that that answers the question right okay okay so um hello anthony hey hello okay so my question is that

um then what kind of doubt do you actually recommend a e5 beginner to start actually yeah it's i mean it depends i guess uh what you're interested in as well as as kind of like you know what what dao you want to join um you know what what work you're interested in doing do you want to join an early stage dow or a la or a later stage one uh you know what what is your skill set sort of thing i think from what i've seen you know i the index co-op is pretty good like it's been around for a few months now but they're pretty good at onboarding new people as long as you are bringing value uh they're pretty good at getting you on board and and getting and finding you you know work to do or you know you can find work to do yourself as well uh and

getting kind of like uh paid contributor rewards for doing this but there's so many of of of these dows now whether that be like you know big projects like uh make a dao or rv and synthetics like they might be too big there's a lot you know to get i guess like involved in those ecosystems might be a bit harder because you need to build up your reputation um you know and it takes a bit longer to do that with the bigger projects but there's plenty of new d5 projects that are that are launching dial first out there um and to find them i mean i cover a lot of them are with the daily grail on the youtube videos um you know i sometimes post them in the alpha leaks channel and things like that but you know there's a lot of earlier stage

projects out there which you can get involved in uh and there's i mean in terms of finding them you know i mean the same resources bank less we'll cover them and you can go to d5 pulse they've got something called the default list i think it's linked at the top of the website to find these projects and you can kind of know if this they're small still you can just look at the discord and see how many members they have and how active it is to to see you know if they're still small and if that's something you want to be a part of then yeah you can just simply just start talking you don't even have to have to do a resume or anything or apply you can just start talking to people going on the forum seeing how you can contribute and get started like that

there really is no barrier to entry in a lot of these dowels you you know you can be anyone you can be you can be a dog it doesn't matter right you can just uh uh you can you can contribute to these daos okay so it's basically just don't be embarrassed or maybe limited by your skill set isn't it yeah basically essentially you're only limited by your imagination and skill set of like you know you can do whatever you want you just have to you know show the the doubt that you can contribute but your contribute your contributions are valuable and add value to the dow and and there that's your that's your in essentially and i've seen people come and do this over time where they they do work first they come and present it to the dow and then they get you know get to know the community they

get more involved and then you know you build up your social score it's like any kind of like group in general like any social group or any company you build up your social capital over time and you become more entrenched over time as well depending on how long you spend in the ecosystem uh and then people get to know you and you become a regular like it's all humans at the end of the day so i think viewing it like that i think is the proper approach thanks anthony awesome thanks for the question all right coming up on the hour mark here we can we can keep going if people have more questions i'm happy to keep going for for a little while here or if you don't have questions anything

you want me to talk about or give just general views on um i'm happy to do that too i just wanted yeah one guy asked a question but maybe you couldn't hear him oh okay maybe yeah sorry uh whoever that was i yeah i didn't hear that it's a sh shabbook oh okay uh go ahead hear me now yeah i can hear you now yeah good um i wanted to know uh about how you saw risks uh coming up to 1559 and particularly with the merge

uh you've talked about a few things related to minors things they can do but i mean do you see any really bad risks things that are sort of existential or do you see just maybe we'll have a few technical issues that get resolved uh you know part by part over a week but just curious how you see risks coming up with both of those events thanks yeah i i don't see any technical risk with one five five nine um some of you may not know this but it's actually been live on other networks like filecoin um and i think nia has it as well so the actual implementation works um it's been live on test nets and so the technical implementation works we does what we want it to do

and everything's kind of fine there so i don't think there's any technical risks and i don't think there's any risks of of miners revolting either they tried that and their punishment was that we sped up the merge right so i think that they're not going to try any more funny business from now on uh because of that but uh the merge definitely is a much bigger kind of thing than one five five nine because the way i like to think about the merge is it's basically replacing an engine in an airplane while the aeroplane is flying um so you're basically doing a hot swap of an engine uh of a of an airborne plane so um when you think about it like that uh and then you relate it back to what the merge actually is it's essentially hot swapping proof of work for proof of stake

so uh and that's a big deal right because leading up to the merge there has to be an incentive for miners to keep mining the network right inevitably some will fall off because they'll basically go to other chains and they want to beat other miners to other trains so that they you know get the get the profits first and things like that and then there was a post from vitalik i think maybe a few weeks ago about uh you know how we can you know make sure that miners keep mining the last block that we need them to you know until the merge is done i think generally i mean the incentive is just to do that uh i think i think uh and and sorry from vitalik's post i think from memory he said that as long as like one miner was doing it it would be fine

as long as that block gets produced or at least one mining pool and i do think there are some mining pools that are that are ethereum aligned anyway uh or at least like not hostile so they'll just keep doing it anyway so i don't think there's actually any any technical i'm sorry any risk of like minor revolt there either but technical risk is is definitely is definitely a thing um you know we've had the merge running on test nets and it works we know it works but because it's such a big thing and because it it's basically trying to essentially merge a 500 billion dollar network uh into into a brand new consensus mechanism that's only been live by the time the merge happens it will have been live for probably 12 or so months um it's a big deal right and i think honestly

you know the technical risk as time goes on gets less and less we saw that there was a bug on the um the eth2 main net with the prism client which was a a very rare bug that there was a super rare edge case and it was quickly patched so um and but other than that the vegan chain has been running very smoothly so if we can just do this this this clean kind of change over to proof of stake then i i think it's going to be fine i i don't foresee too much uh technical risk there either and the developers and researchers are going to test this extensively they're not going to go ahead with this if unless they're confident we saw this play out with the beacon chain mainnet they didn't rush it right there was multiple delays there was never an official date given but there

was multiple kind of delays where people were expecting it to come out at this time but it wasn't and that's because the developers and researchers were not confident in launching it until they did and that's the same thing that's going to happen with the merge we all want the merge as fast as possible believe me the devs want it faster than all of us and the researchers want it faster than all of us but until they're confident that it can go and work without a hitch and that they've covered all their bases it's not going to happen so and from that point of view i wouldn't expect there to be much risk at all with that um because they know how how serious it is and how big of a deal it is and you know once it happens it's done that's it there's no need to worry about

miners anymore which i think is pretty cool that's great thank you oh good um okay anthony so there's one more question there's a strong spring up in my mind and uh actually what's the mentality behind the depths that really want to uh launch with their protocol because like launching underneath means they're releasing their um their hard work that losing their control of the of the hardware to the a bunch of strangers basically right so actually what's the incentive that make them do that so there's a few different motivations

here and there's actually hybrid approaches too so maybe i can i can talk about the the motivations then go into the hybrid approaches so motivation one is you want to decentralize the the protocol the the d5 developers um the whole point is to not have control over it right for a number of reasons one reason being regulatory right it's very hard if not impossible to regulate a dow you that doesn't answer to any one jurisdiction if you have a sufficient um level of token holders or amount of token holders sorry that means you've got sufficient decentralization so it's very hard for for any regulators to go after that um you know you as i said you want to decentralize it because you believe that this stuff needs to be

you know decentralized a lot of the time they want to um have a token too like that's how uh you know i guess like you know to be honest that's how like investors get a return on their investment that's how the team uh kind of like makes money as well as from from these tokens sorts of things and tokens can act very positively to coordinate both capital and governance through the dow as well um but in terms of the hybrid approaches that i was talking about you can do a dow but still have control over it um because your protocol is very new so for example the index co-op is a dow where the token holders vote on everything that happens but the actual changes happen uh via a multi-sig so the set team that launched the index co-op they have

a multi-sig and whenever the community votes for something they basically push that transaction or enact that um on chain for for the dow this happens for m stable as well another project i'm involved in um this happens for a number of projects still like synthetic still has admin keys even though they are a dow um and and things like that so actually maybe they gave it up they have they have a funny structure synthetic they have like three different dowels uh but but essentially um yeah it you don't have to seed control straight away and it's i i think the admin key thing is not so that they can keep controlled so that they can upgrade the protocol uh and cleanly as well like technical upgrades uh and things like that too because um you know some teams don't want to have to

relaunch the whole protocol from scratch like what unisop does unisof doesn't have any admin key so every time they launch a new version they have to relaunch the entire thing and then all the capital has to migrate over that becomes you know a bit difficult that same thing happened with rver uh but you know there's other teams that are just happy you know um having this kind of control for the short to medium term upgrade the system keep building it out and then you know slowly kind of like get seed control over to token holders in an unchained way where for example make a dow is a full down like all of the stuff happens on chain from mkr token holders and there's a few other projects out there that do this like compound as well um but for the earlier stage projects they'll definitely do a hybrid approach

which i think is is fine but yeah motivations are are the same for every project like token uh for for variety of reasons right for coordinating capital return on investment for investors uh and team and stuff like that uh you also have um decentralization because that's the ethos of the space right uh and and dows can also attract a bunch of new people uh to work for i guess like your protocol that you wouldn't have been able to attract normally because of um you know you were just a centralized company uh maybe you couldn't even hire these people because they were in different jurisdictions or whatever uh whereas a dow everyone can work for a doubt there's no kind of like there's no sanctions there's no you know uh legal regulatory stuff to worry about um it doesn't discriminate so yeah i hope that answers your question

oh great yes thanks anthony all good cool anyone else maybe i'm not hearing anyone else uh i don't know what was happening there before man i have another question um so i'm just gonna look at the big picture and uh yeah obviously crypto is still relatively small and not many people know about it and people are talking like about a huge transfer of wealth to the to the crypto people uh and obviously that wealth is partly gonna be transferred from

from very rich currently very rich people and uh you know the those people own a lot of assets that are going to be devalued uh do you see any risk that there's going to be like huge forces threatening the crypto world you know on the government level or just on any other levels uh you know because people obviously that are going to lose their wealth are going to be really really unhappy um so just like as a whole do you have any view on on this subject yeah i mean oops excuse me for sure i think i have like a

i think it's a it's a complex topic right and i think overall it can be answered by basically going through the game theory of the situation right this because this system is global because it runs on the internet to shut it down or to fight back against it by doing so you yourself because say you're a country or a nation state and you say okay well we're going to ban this from happening something got to do with crypto or we're just going to ban crypto well all these other countries and nation states aren't banning crypto so they're just going to you know continue on building out um you know crypto infrastructure building out the future future of finance whatever and then you're going to be left behind so i think the game theory holds that it's actually hindrance for

for any of these nation states to ban and and to kind of like uh come down on it or regulate it too heavily because that means that their own country and their own economy will suffer so yes these things will will challenge uh you know people's wealth it will challenge existing systems it will disrupt a lot of existing systems but i think it will play out in the same way the internet did where by not embracing the internet you basically fall behind like there's tons and tons of companies that were essentially you know completely destroyed by the internet because they didn't embrace it uh and nation states didn't really ban it you know china with their own way of controlling it they they basically created their own internet uh maybe they can create their own kind of blockchain you know they have their cbdc stuff but fundamentally in in most

of the world you know we all use the same internet right we all we all kind of like uh you know can access the same sites and even if the sites get blocked there are ways around it like you know in australia they sometimes block sites that they blocked 4chan once you know it was like a dns block so you could just get around it very easily um and and sorts of things like that so you know there are there are d5 apps already that have to block certain jurisdictions like for example you know you can't even use dydx in the us but the thing is is that you can either use a vpn to get around that or you can use the smart contracts directly to get around that or you can use another interface that isn't the dydx official front end so uh you know from that point of view

it's just going to be very hard to control or regulate any of this and you know in terms of like wealth transfer that's a basically impossible thing to control because uh you'd essentially have to get like every government to agree to like you know either ban purchases of crypto for say non-accredited investors or something like that or or you'd have to just join in and really the the only way is to join in and that's why we're seeing a lot of institutions adopting this now but that actually further kind of legitimizes the entire ecosystem and further in um you know increases the the wealth distribution or redistribution because typically uh younger people uh or at least younger investors and people who who are into technology are the first adopters of these things and

then you have like the older people who who are you know more conservative they're not like into risk-taking they're the ones that are buying it through an etf or something like that and you know a bitcoin atf in the us hasn't been approved at this stage and maybe it comes this year but that's like into you know 10 11 12 years into bitcoin's life so all that upside that the early adopters got uh essentially you know the the um the the later adopters aren't going to get that anymore and that's where that that wealth distribution comes from so i just generally think that there's no way to stop this or control it or regulate it it is literally uh you know unstoppable um you know for the most part i i believe makes a lot of sense actually cheers

no worries a few other people that joined if you knew what people if you had any questions you wanted to to ask feel free to ask them anything crypto ethereum whatever just a very generic question at this point in the stage um to prevent oneself from selling one's ethereum and like to lock it up in validator nodes uh what what are your thoughts on this i mean i currently run one validator but i'd be interested in looking at furthers what do people what do people think in general but potentially running more

than one valid later it's it's funny because i think it depends on like every individual situation right if you if you don't plan to to sell your wreath anytime soon anyway then to me it's like a no-brainer to just stake it unless you're using it for something else like if you're using it in d5 then obviously it's it's it's caught up or tied up there but if you're just if it's just in cold storage and you're happy taking on a little bit more risk like it's really a tiny bit more risk and you're happy running validators or whatever then yeah it makes sense to stake it to stack some more eighth and then uh obviously it's locked until the the merger happens but as i as i was saying before the merge is going to happen there's there's no way it's not going to happen

um so yeah i would suggest i'll not suggest but i would say that like if if you are someone who plans to hold for many years then it makes sense for for you to stake it if you're not already using it within within d5 but maybe someone else has a as a different thought on that um or you know to answer your question ah perfect low enough risk is what i thought yeah cheers um i actually think staking is probably the lowest risk thing you can do with your eth right now uh in terms of like earning a yield on it and the yield obviously isn't you know too high it's like i mean i mean it's pretty high for for normal standards but for crypto standards it's not it's like six seven percent which is pretty decent but you know if you want to take on more

risk with your eif you can always you know put it in in make up borrow some stable coin borrow some dice sorry and then go yield farm with that but then you expose yourself not only to smart contract with risk but also liquidation risk and things like that and you're also paying a fee for that privilege too so yeah i think uh staking is definitely the the safest and the less least stressful way to earn a yield on your eighth right now the less stress that's the key takeaway from each years yeah that's it so does uh deposit eve into a during mode actually it's a stacking uh there so the urine vault uses um

lido uh finance in the background which is they issue a staked earth token called st eth which essentially gives you exposure to to that but um the the problem is is that uh uh sorry sorry the the urine vault will actually put your ether into the curve pool which um pairs it with the st token um and we'll basically yield farm like that uh but the st token is essentially a representation of of staking um so you can earn the yield that way but uh there are there may be the the problem with that is that there may be tax implications if you trade your eighth st does the tax office think that you've disposed your eighth for another asset um even though technically it is it is kind of like the same asset just with a

yield on it so i would check on that depending on where you are uh but but yeah there are ways to do that without running the validators yourself you can you can just buy st for example um or like trade your eighth for it if you want to or pair your eighth with st in a curve pool and earn some some rewards on that but that's more risk because it's not just staking it's also uh you know putting it in curve which is smart contract risk and and uh you know uh i guess like it's an amm pool as well so there's some additional risks there too okay then uh thanks another question yeah do you have intention to launch a dial uh for the for the daily grey uh no i mean no they are i think a dao

really does require a token for coordination both of capital and and human coordination so uh yeah i i don't think so uh just i don't know i i i people have asked me this question a lot over the time and i did give some thought to it i just as i said i want to see what how bankless plays out um but i just i don't really see a purpose for it at the end of the day um i i don't know how much value it would provide from you know on top of what i'm already doing sort of thing yeah yeah that's a pretty tricky question thanks for watching answering that all good uh mahesh yeti uh you're you're you're off mute i can hear all right there you go

thank you um if you had a question feel free don't forget to ask it though i think crypto bkk you you go off mute but i can't hear you if you're asking a question unfortunately uh disco dancing as well if you want to ask something you're off mute too speaking about oh yeah no i was just reading the chat i hadn't checked the chat domi uh dummy asked a quick question uh he was asking what the mangas in the background are these are one piece

mango um dummy anyway go ahead speaking about curve what do you think distinguishes uniswap v3 would curve because i'm still not sure i mean curve is for stable coins but uni swap p3 also greatly enhances support for stable coins and i'm kind of in the pickle of i mean curve is easy it's the positive forget you you provide liquidity you can forget about everything univ3 is a little bit more complicated because you need to determine your range well for stable coins it's easy it's around the one dollar mark but i'm still not sure yet what will how they will live in harmony i mean i mean i don't think curve will win from uni or uni will win against girv but i'm not sure where they stand right now i am in the same boat as you i think

this is uh something that a lot of people in the ecosystem are watching and wondering how it's going to play out but in saying that i think that it's just at the end of the day people prefer different platforms some people prefer curves some people prefer uni-swap um and you know curve hasn't you know curves liquidity hasn't drained into uni top v3 or anything like that maybe long term it does but i i do think that they can live in harmony even though that might be counterintuitive uh i do think that they can they can exist in harmony and i do know that kerbs working on a v2 as well so maybe they have some key innovations there but it does come back to the to the questions of like you know what is the moat right what is the you know can one protocol

just like you you know uh take over all the other protocols because it just has everything um i don't think that's the case i think that the more complex a protocol is the harder it is as well to to kind of take over and you know different protocols and different dowels will have specializations and different things so uh yeah it's going to be interesting to see it play out but i i do think they can live in harmony i don't think that there's any like unison v3 is going to kill curve or anything like that just reading the the chat here is there any other questions someone's saying uh staking ap why i

know they're having a conversation in there my bad um yeah crypto bkk i can't hear you if you're trying to ask a question maybe you can type it in the chat if you want to ask something in the in the general chat but anyone else yeah feel free to ask away here we'll probably wrap it up soon maybe in five minutes getting late here 12 30 a.m uh so yeah any any final question i'm happy to answer them and and we'll probably wrap it up do you know what happened to pipette um there was a huge influx at the start of 2017 where there was a lot of social uh

social projects like p-pet i think you had the dan uh i forgot his name the ears guy he had a forgot its name that was like this they paid post statement no no no it was a different thing but either way my point is um twitter has a lot of criticism that they're censoring uh stuff so a lot of people are saying well cryptocurrency is uncensorable or in some way or another so we should make a twitter for ethereum or or a twitter for crypto do you think that holds any ground do you think that's even a possibility because when you're dealing with crypto you're dealing with crypto and crypto economics and then probably tweets will get monetized and if content gets monetized it turns into a shilling fest

yeah i mean uh i think pre-path uh essentially the fees got too high for them because they were doing everything on layer one i think the technology just hasn't been there to enable these kind of things just yet there have been experiments on other chains like uh steam or steemit uh which was around for quite a while which is fantastic yeah yeah which which is famous for the hostile takeover from justin stein and then they forked off to something called hive i think and they were doing this but yeah i i always thought that the um the incentives were warped because if you were paying people to post content they would just post like rubbish content and there were vote buying going on and like trading of of different upvotes and things like that so i don't know if that model can work but a decentralized social network

is interesting but it needs moderation right if anyone can post anything they want on it then wants to stop it from just evolving into like a complete you know fest i mean you can see what happens when there's unmoderated boards everywhere like i mean you know i just as an example many people may be aware of 4chan is is mostly unmoderated there is moderation for like illegal content um but you know mostly it's unmoderated and that is just like you know it's not everyone's cup of tea it's it's pretty bad it's pretty it's chaos essentially so i i mean what's stopping a decentralized twitter from turning into that there has to be some level of moderation and i think that it's going to be hard for you know even a dow to moderate that and

you know maybe it takes the wikipedia model i mean wikipedia technically is a decentralized platform where you know anyone can post anything they want to it uh it's not i mean technically it's not decentralized but it's an open platform that anyone can post anything to uh but it's moderated by a you know diverse set of people they you know earn reputation for what they do and they you know they they have like control over what gets on the site and things like that um maybe it has to be like that sort of model but yeah i do think that technology is just not there yet because of the scalability issues with with ethereum in particular uh just checking the general chats what are your thoughts on index uh index uh i was just talking

about index call before uh extremely bullish on it i mean i'm biased because i'm i was part of the team that launched index co-op uh with set and i'm still an advisor to set um i i think that they're the best dow in the space right now if i'm being honest so definitely uh check check them out if you haven't yet um uh crypto bk i can see your question here what are your thoughts on algo stable coins uh i think they're interesting interesting as experiments i think a lot of them the majority of them are ponzi schemes and will fail uh because their inceptive mechanisms don't make much sense but i do think that a lot of them are also cool i do think that the experiments uh i i'd like seeing experiments play out uh my favorites are probably uh i mean i think it's funny because

like it depends what i'll go stablecoin because there's different ways to do it i mean there was uh esd and dsd and all that sort of stuff that did like a coupon system which i actually considered to be pretty much a ponzi because it required people to essentially just like keep buying in to keep the value like afloat and like you know it would obviously not stay at its peg because the incentives were kind of messed up um and then there was uh there's like fey protocol for example which is using protocol controlled value which is another mechanism and then there's rye from uh from reflex r which essentially doesn't peg itself to a dollar pays itself it pegs itself to itself which i think is actually really cool as well so yeah i mean all four just watching experimentations uh

it play out uh here and like rick jones is asking a question uh what do you think other index based protocols like pydow and indexed finance i think i mean i haven't really dived two bit deep into them i'm aware of them of course and essentially you know you can consider them competitions of the index co-op i would guess but they're doing different things taking different paths um i i think they're they're fine i just don't know too much about the individual projects themselves but i'm pretty sure they've got like you know the same sort of set up as index cop but they have a dow they're producing index products and things like that as well um rick jones saying it's pegged to a pie number that's just an arbitrary number that they that they came up with uh

rye is actually just pegged to itself and can deviate from from that uh but that was just like the number that they that they created at the start which was which was quite funny i i thought all right uh final final questions anyone i'll or i'll wrap this uh wrap this up for today i think that's it then unless uh i think there's a few people going off mute but i can't exactly hear you thanks for all the info awesome well yeah we'll end it there uh thank you everyone for for joining the first ama uh probably do this you know every every couple of weeks or every every so often

um you know happy to always answer any questions in the discord channel as well the recording will be up on youtube uh you know shortly probably probably tomorrow i'll get it up there um and you can go back and listen in and go pass it on to your friends or anything if you want as well so yeah thank you again everyone for joining and have a good evening morning afternoon wherever you are in the world