Crypto's Euphoria, Mass Stablecoin Adoption, and Continued Memecoin Dominance | Roundup

Transcript

I think that I'm earlier in this industry than I was a decade ago for the simple reason that a decade ago it was let's become digital gold it's 10 trillion and what is both daunting exciting but also really amazing is that the aperture has opened up in a way that things are working I don't think that triggers euphoria that triggers like a like sort of sits on you it takes a while and then you're like oh [ __ ] like legislation comes Banks start holding Banks start issuing tech company start issuing US dollar maintains Global Reserve status uh as we basically figure out how to export dollars to the entire world and so that was just biggest takeaway from that from the multicoin summit was like I think people are

grossly underestimating I think people think that there's like oh stable coin bubble on Twitter and people are talking about that we're like inning we're not the game hasn't even started for St exactly absolutely it's a spec of dust scale is the blockchain that is Simply Built different other L1 networks have costly transaction fees clunky user experiences and lack true adoption in Ai and onchain gaming explore the gas-free ecosystem at scale. spacecosmos ZK evm has launched its Pioneer program

offering early adopters a chance to earn earn not only loyalty points but also potentially win part of a $30,000 ZK cro giveaway if you're interested in being an early adopter visit zkm kronos.com every part of global token compensation all in 100 countries on one platform reach out to their incredible team at tok.com or by hitting the link in the description of today's episode hey

everyone Jason here wanted to talk about something that's been on my mind a lot recently if we should not be just recreating the trafi industry that's why I'm excited to share with you that today's sponsor magic Eden is getting into token trading and their vision is to become onchain binance and then much more as the entire world moves on chain stay up to date with magic Eden's journey by giving them a follow on X at Magic Eden hey everyone Jason here for Black Friday only Ledger is offering $70 in Bitcoin if you upgrade to The Ledger Flex you can also save up to 40% on selected Ledger Nano wallets and accessories offer is only valid until December 5th or while supplies last so

be sure to hit the link in the description of today's episode so you don't miss out on this really good good deal ah man yeah put on uh put on your podcast fa all right what's up everyone we've uh we've got the Roundup this week um bit bit of an odd week I feel like Vibes are like Vibes are not as high as they should be with Bitcoin hitting 98k um I don't know Trump did some cool stuff uh AI agents um options went live uh some stable coin stuff I don't know what's up salty I feel like The Vibes are uh well I tweet about this yesterday the market doesn't feel euphoric at all yeah let's let's talk about that why why do you think that is yeah my um the way

I think about it is when you believe in something and it happens it doesn't create Euphoria Euphoria happens when something that you don't believe in happens or that you hadn't considered and I think you know if you're still here like it's been a a difficult couple of years um and so whether you're been investing in Bitcoin but like something like salana is I think 5% off its all-time high I was at the multi-coin conference you were there too I think it's the people that are still here really believe in the technology You' sort of been hardened by difficult times and so you're don't you're not euphoric because if you're still here you believe it like you fully understand the potential from my perspective I have said this many times

I think that I'm earlier in this industry than I was a decade ago for the simple reason that a decade ago it was let's become digital gold it's 10 trillion and what is both daunting exciting but also really amazing is that the appature has opened up in a way that things are working and not only that but a lot of the obstacles and the oppression has been cleared in with this incoming Administration and so you're it's almost like a deep sense of appreciation and excitement but not Euphoria and that okay now we have a really good shot at scaling this now it's really on us to get this to where we wanted to and that's I don't think that triggers euphoria that triggers

like a like sort of sits on you it takes a while and then you're like oh [ __ ] and and I've been thinking about that a lot obviously with what I'm doing but also just as the industry as a whole yeah I I have a different take actually I I think you are right so it's not a but it's an and it's um meme coins have been great for some reasons because lot of people have made a lot of money and actually a group of people who usually doesn't get to make a lot of money I would say has made a lot of money and that's been a really net positive the negative is that I think it sucked the air out of a lot of the rest of the industry right as a you know like crypto

kind of has worked the same way that Tech has worked in that it's a very venture-backed industry and it's predicated on the Venture deals actually working and making a lot of money and for the last 10 years they they did right they were working um you know you would invest in an L1 or an L2 or an app like Unis Swap and then it would go live at a valuation higher than the last round and the you know the system was really working and um and there were all the there was like the majors and then there were there were the alts right there was the defi tokens and things like that and the downside of having these mem coins going parabolic is that it sucked the air and the energy out of out of the rest of the industry and you know in in crypto price drives near

and so even like I you know I was prepping for this podcast for a little bit and I was like what what are we talking about this week like Trump did some cool things like there were some AI agents but really those are just meme coins right now like some you know micro strategy went up more than it did last week like you know so the there's no narratives right now and there's no things that the industry is kind of holding on to as like oh this is what the exciting new thing is um and so I think that's driven some of the the vibe not being as high as it could be I agree with you with that and um I still think um you know let me ask you a question like I think a lot of we' like to talk about narrative in this

podcast but like do we need I feel like we're in constant search of narratives when we already know a lot of things and so like are we are we in a place where like I don't think we have an identity crisis I don't think we need to find more narratives I could go back to when I was first investing in defi before it was a term and I could have told you we just stopped innovating if we just stayed at stable coins and Bitcoin even today that's a thesis enough for this space to meaningfully grow you know what I mean it's still a spec of dust like yeah we're getting traction with stable coins There's 7 trillions being settled on stable coins

a lot of that is speculative and a lot of the reports that I've seen businesses are still not using stable coin but you have PayPal stripe really appreciating how it can can transform what they're doing we don't need to boil the ocean we don't need a 100 narratives to justify the existence of the space like people that are are not in crypto are just beginning to appreciate that narrative and how explosive that is and know by the way for them that's massive and so we like to bring on people here talk about at The Cutting Edge of blockchain and you know fully horom morphic encryptions I mean like a lot of really cool use cases will be opened up the

nonori totally new what's you know you know what I mean but we don't need to justify we don't need to create a 100 narratives I think we just need to double down on the on the things that are working and that alone is enough to push this space on order of magnitude or two yeah I would agree with you except that narrative narratives are more important important than people realize for directing um Capital but also human capital so let's let's take like a real world example of like a person right if you are a founder and you want to go build something today do you think it's more let's say there was a massive stable coin narrative happening today or a massive like uh defi 2.0 defi Renaissance narrative happening today

that founder is going to go build in defi or they're going to go build in stable coins today what's happening I mean I have a really smart friend he I'll put quotes around this because he should be building a company on chain instead he just decided to launch a mem coin fund now meme coin fund what we should talk now that that's the third per really smart person I've seen in the last four weeks launching a mem coin fund is that better or worse for society I'm not here to tell you it's not the most productive use of your time I'm sure he'll make a boatload of money however uh would that that person is a phenomenal engineer really gets crypto really gets how Capital markets work I would love to see that person go to try to build a big business but because

there's no narratives he's like I just don't know what I'd go build right now like I don't know it seems like the money's in the meme coin so you think he's a good Builder um yeah I think he's a great Builder I think he's a great Builder but he just sees the risk reward right now is like like look I could go build something it's really freaking hard but like on the other side I could go launch a meme coin fund people he's doing no fee no no fee so it's like I think zero and 25 so he's like yeah I'll just get people to give me money because people know that I'm smart and like I'll go make some money and that's how I'll ride out the cycle and like boom we just lost a great company well meet him might ask him smart people don't necessarily make

money I do appreciate narratives drive a lot of interest and speculation and spective drive is super important for adoption and Capital Market formation don't I I I'm not dismiss of the value of narratives I just think some of the best Builders are obsessed with an idea and they are counter they counter sort of the mainstream consensus like you know you really you want to build trans that's a really good point if he was the best why am I doing this thing that I'm doing do I need to do it absolutely not can I just chill in the hor and just a good all my life yeah but you just one day you wake up and you and and you say I couldn't live with myself not doing this I don't care if other people don't see it I see it and that's enough for me to go one speed

full speed and that's it the people want to I know that at some point like I the best people that I've come across just are like that and well and I on the other side when I meet them I I sense that they're going to do everything in their power to make it and will it into existence and they will just literally not stop and then of course they control cost they raise enough money to to be able to execute I'm not saying that starting a mcoin fund is not to your point going to be successful good for him great all the success but is that really gonna drive you yeah that's a good that's a that's a very valid point is he really the

Builder that would have built something big if this I'm starting to question if he's that good of a of a builder or that smart person I'm not I would like to break maybe he should come on the podt and we can just gonna say without on my friend without picking on my friend too much maybe let's zoom zoom out from that I'd be curious you know right now it's like Bitcoin is ripping Bitcoins I don't know what the price say it's like 98k I think or 97 or something like that um and the meme coins going up salon is going up and really nothing else is going up and it's we're now going on like month seven of this Dynamic basically and so I'd be curious how you're thinking about maybe what 2025 could look like I know you've you know vocally been very obviously everyone

knows who lists to Empire like bearish eth bullish salana you're right we you know patch you on the head for that man no I know but no know just look at my portfolio and I'll be fine I don't need anyone to say thanks or whatever you're like uh you know who you know who you're you see the naive buelli Instagram story oh this yeah because you made $100 million in the trade he's like we're right something this is this is amazing hold on I told you so he said right he said uh no he didn't even say that just a screenshot of $573 million in his portfolio total profit of 300 million and he just sent the portfolio chart with two kissy faces love it love it um Okay so

what do you think about what what so I think the big question on people's mind this week has been like you know a couple weeks ago people were calling for like BTC eth is at the lows but it keep or eth BTC is at the lows it keeps going lower so I'm curious to your your current framework on like eth and maybe more importantly less about eth but more importantly about like just the alts and like defi tokens and dpin tokens and that kind of stuff I don't know if you have current thoughts on this I'll answer the question telling you what I did last year um I don't like to adjust my portfolio or thinking uh just because things reacting to the market necessarily I do pay attention to it constantly but and it

serves as a as an impetus to update my thesis like hey what am I missing here on the memec coin stuff for me it was like okay I'm certainly missing something here people you know and you update your thesis but with something like salana and how I I think I did a very drastic change in my portfolio I don't known any L1 like eth other than to pay gas to like claim some positions that are investing so but other than that I don't own any eth very little Bitcoin uh and so but but the eth one is for me like I was willing to do that drastic of a change in my portfolio because it I was processing

the thesis for salana and then highr chains and it took took me a bit was I super early on it no did I catch salana at the absolute Pico bottom no but I'm okay with that because I have a uh my thesis is it's salana of flips ethereum and then and then some and then so I'm willing to hold that and I'm willing to just see that through so I don't necessarily like I'm not a this calendar year re underwriting makes no sense to me like what am I I know allocators institutional allocators like let's sit what is the and we do predictions here for the it we got to do them I get it but my standpoint I'm like I'm not doing them I'm uh I'm like okay I just I'm

holding to the thesis I don't see anything that will invalidate it that's it like if I make if I make more money on stuff that I've done on the Venture side I'll just rotate into more salana so so then let me ask you this can the alt okay without talking about salana can the alt coins move um like can can like a and maker I'll I'll give the answer that yes I'll give the answer that the audience wants to here then I'll I'll entertain the exercise yeah what's gonna happen go listen to the episode of Eric Peters along the way there he says something that is true institutions huddle up at the end of the year and say where are we going to put our money we just had the election

crypto is in Flavor now every fund that you talk to is getting inbound the institutions don't move as fast it takes one or and Eric said a two one or two quarters for them to update right they're going to go in there they're going to say we should allocate more to bitcoin crypto uh how can we express that view they're going to do a couple of things they might buy the ETF they might also allocate the crypto funds and then that liquidity takes a couple of Cycles to play through absent anything major on the geopolitical side of things um you have a very I think a really good set up for the space like liquidity will come in and liquidity flows and then so it it it

doesn't take much to drive a lot of these assets which you're right salana Bitcoin are hitting all-time Highs memecoins are just all the rage right now most of the other stuff is still well well below their all-time highs and so the question is where do where do you want to allocate your money how do you want to play that how many how far in the risk spectrum and from a portfolio construction standpoint what are the funds like you're Inver where are the people going to deploy their money are they going to continue deploy and do the trade of salana East and looking at that chart or are they going to punt out I think I'd be I think the correct assumption is people are going to go farther around the r Spectrum as things you know Bitcoin continues to Rally I could see it go up to 120 before the end

of the year then all of a sudden it's like all right well let's if that holds then people are going to punt at some point ether's going to come out on favor you know flows into the ET if we're going to be strong and then you know like everything catches a bit in a bull market is what I'm trying to say and I think we are in that situation right now just everything you're seeing on bitcoin Bitcoin historically is lad um but uh so yeah like what outperforms is maybe the more interesting question like what on a relative basis does well on a year time frame kind of really impossible much much more Impossible on a shorter time frame on a multiple year

time frame I'll tell you with a lot of conviction what I'm doing but yeah so will we get so here let me pull up this um we did this story with I think it was hash key put this out it was like outlines the three like kind of 2013 2014 alt season 2017 to 2018 alt season 2020 2021 alt season and like basically where Bitcoin dominance was at for those what were the catalysts what what were the key events um we can we can link in the show notes to to the story when if you just compare the alts to meme coins in this cycle um what do you think like in the last cycle ret retail pushed farther out on the wrist spectrum and started buying things like uh compound

and a and uni and things like that and then they pushed even farther out and bought bought the nfts the we're we're skipping steps in this cycle it feels like and people are kind of saying oh I know how the cycle is going to go let me just go straight to meme coins so one one thing I have zero conviction on is will the alts ever get bid or is it just it's it's a meme coin cycle because people know how the game play so they're trying to skip to the end that was great question I don't know what do you think I mean it's already happening right people have totally skipped the all it's like you know that that strictly speaking all you've skipped them they've gone straight the out now Tik Tok meta is all the rage and yeah it's like my my we that that uh my

friend who texted me like last week that we were talking about on the you know I think we were talking about her text with me on the podcast last week she didn't say hey um you know I want to buy Bitcoin or like one of the majors and I want to buy like one of the real businesses built on chain she said give me should I buy Bitcoin ether salana and should I what meme coin should I buy yeah right yeah uh it's like the bell curve that you buy something at the right side you buy something in the left side you don't buy something in the middle so yeah I think like the right side part of your brain or the right side would be what of the best assets like Bitcoin you know if you're going to hold Salon or eth while you can come to

your conclusion and then extreme barbell strategies I think how the market just has operated not just in crypto but traditional too it's like I'm going to hold something like stable like quality and then I'm going to go really like you know left curve like kind of like the Family Feud style of investing which is it doesn't matter what I think it's like what other people are going to do y and uh and then you just kind of operate like that or allocate like that uh the issue though I don't know like this meme coin stuff is i' certainly surpass my expectations it's just the the The Meta is so quickly rapidly evolving I think Shia or Darren

or someone down loud said like wait a minute historically it was like institutions dumping on retail now retail is dumping on institutions or like or not and also like newcomers right A lot of these people that like if you're not on Tik Tok you're at a material disadvantage like an asset selection for meme coins something like that yeah yeah um I'm pulling up the picture of that kid did you see the kid this week who rugged he launched oh my God I gotta find the picture of this kid he he created a meme coin and then it went to like he made like 30k in Soul and rugged and then people found out who he was and saw this video of him rugging and being like he's

like 15-year-old kid he's like flipping off the camera and then he oh my God you got I got I'm going to send this to you afterwards it's freaking hilarious and then people sent his memec coin skyrocketing and he would have had like five million bucks so I don't know funny funny video um any takeaways from the multicoin summit by the way shout out to the multicoin folks um I saw a uh I saw I saw a thread on Twitter which was like whose opinion do you trust or do you do you trust the this person's opinion or something and and it was all these like people and I think it was posted by like a very big eth person like croissant or Brett or yeah I forget who posted it but um it was like Kyle Kyle from multicoin it was like 80% don't trust and the

thing that I think people uh nobody realizes on Twitter right now is that multicoin has actually probably one of the only Mega funds that has actually outperformed Bitcoin when a lot of the other Mega funds have honestly just underperformed Bitcoin um so I don't know just wanted to shout out the multicoin folks I thought it was a really good Summit I don't know if it was it was like an off the Record Summit so we I don't know can't share too much from it obviously but like any any just like generalized takeaways I was catching B them because I went to I think their first summit on 201 17 or 16 17 17 or 18 I forget it was like we hosted do you know blockworks we were desperate for money so they hired blockworks halfon Bay no the one after

that in or maybe before in um in at chi I think it was chiani in New York maybe 2019 I want to say I think no this was their first summit I believe yeah and I was going back to that I when I first met Kyle I reached out to him because I thought his writing was very clear and compelling and it's not someone that is afraid to voice his opinions and he's a strong idea guy and he follows through and very high conviction and I think the combination of tusar and Kyle if you know them or have met met them or you can go listen to their podcast they're they're different they're different in how they operate and think but I think the combination is works very well so my thesis when I gave them money back way

back in the day for their hedge fund was these guys are going to capture something that I don't they're going to see thing it's sort of a hedge against my myself and it turned out to be very true so I don't know like I I really I don't think they've had it easy uh after the FTX stuff the constant quit in for Solana uh is very polarizing but he knows that and like I know he PLS like Cunningham's law also like you know this idea of like tweeting like getting a lot of information but like just taking an opinion that you know he he really I think he he's smart in that way MH um so I thought yeah I mean to a lot

what is Cunningham's law Cunningham's law is like the best way to get to an answer is to post a statement and people going to tell you or it's you want to post the wrong answer and that will feed you the right answer exactly something like that like kham's law states the best way to get to the right answer on the internet is not to ask a question is to post the wrong answer yeah yeah so I think there's an element of that um so yeah like uh at the end of the day returns are all that matter and how you do like and so if you go talk to their portfolio companies I think single-handedly maybe the better PLL is to ask that question ask Founders that they've backed they're there they're in the trenches and that's all it really matters that and you know do out

performing actually I did a I did a very informal survey of uh probably 25 Founders this was like end of last year beginning of this year because I was thinking about like should we have like a should we have a database basically of all the VCS and rank them and publicize it and decided not to do that but um yeah actually M multicoin ranked it was multicoin and Union Square Ventures the two two most helpful Venture firms we we found I think it will only become more important as the space has proliferated like if a lot of the a lot of the bigger funds or the biggest funds in the space started at a time where it was very much just eth and Bitcoin but eth you didn't get paid or you didn't raise to allocate to bitcoin you raised to allocate mostly to

ethereum and um the name implies multicoin you know they they've gone out and they' they've they're very focused I think and that becomes I think more important in as the space continues as the aperture of the investable universe expands and it's equally valuable to understand the things that you want to invest in as much as the things you don't want to invest in and so I think ultimately I'm not suggesting that maybe generalized funds are not going to do well like you certainly could run a strategy like that but and and multicoin has different Vehicles right now vure fund and liquid fund that's I think more

of a structural reason and I would do it the same way and I think a lot of other funds do it the the same way just purely from a type of allocator perspective but at the core I think uh they're more focused like could Pari we were very focused on one idea it was decentralized Finance before it was a term it was defi Ben and I were of the opinion that decentralized Finance is a killer use case and we were seeing it because we're on chain looking at it was I think in order to come up with big bold ideas you have to focus on like key insights the Insight that we had was looking at like stable coin usage on chain and saying wait a minute it's actually cheaper to swap

stable coins on chain some like curve than it is the coinbase or binance and then seeing eth collapse 80% and Mak or D die which is backed by eth hold its Peg those I could tell you there was other things that we were observing and well holding the peg almost did I think you guys played a good role in holding the peg but well there was moments where it was tricky that's we we we oh yeah you you guys were in the trenches you guys were in the trenches March black Thursday we were nonstop I was on the phone for like 48 hours because there was a yeah there was incredible chance of single that the time I was only backed by eth and our proposal was we have to expand

collateral and if hardcore ethereum people were like ideologically saying oh you know it's going to censorship resistance and adding usdc as collateral is going to be really bad I'm like fine keep you do you want to die or do you want to survive and it's um I find that people like think of risk in really binary terms risk is always risk is always a matter of probabilities in the Spectrum and very few people I think understand that anyways yeah like we I I shout out to them I mean I um I know they haven't uh it's not like I told you so in in many ways uh Trump also had this tweet actually maybe transitioning a conversation a little more he had something that I thought was really um

impressive he said I'm not out here to go and chase after the people that made my life very difficult I'm actually willing to give him a second or third chance I'm I bet a lot of people didn't expect Trump to tweet that um I mean he did say that but he also just sued the news companies for10 billion so he is holding a bit bit of a grunch just just putting that out there but I mean okay fine like I hear your point but yeah anyways yeah um I one take all just to say is like I think like a more important thing is while

I'll be observing is as salana reaches alltime High how does that Community take that all in and I know there's different factions within the community but like I don't think the right strategy would be to say I told you so we're you know 100% we're here and we we we're the best I actually think that what has made salana so powerful is that uh and and in the in this multi-coin conference there was Raj there and you told you they they've stuck to one really core idea which is NASDAQ on the blockchain increase bandwidth reduce latency like two very core ideas that doesn't mean that by the way there's

other technology in crypto that can address other use cases Beyond NASDAQ on the blockchain like stand for something but be very opinionated and understand the trade-offs that's what I tell every other project that I come across yeah scale is the blockchain that is Simply Built different let's face it other L1 networks have costly transaction fees that increase as the network gets busier scale has solve this problem with a gas-free scalable infrastructure where users never pay gas fees scale was awarded the most active gaming chain in 2023 by coin Gecko and host five of the top 25 games on dap radar you should definitely check out

scale I was using it the other day it really is incredible to use that's scale spelled with a K hit the link in the show notes or head on over to scale dospace ecosystem to get started today hey everyone Jason here I wanted to quickly talk about Kronos ZK evm a Next Generation zero knowledge layer 2 blockchain Network focused on scalability security and Innovation secured by ethereum it further expands the Kronos ecosystem using ZK sync Tech Kronos ZK evm has launched its Pioneer program offering early users loyalty points for engaging with Kronos ZK evm and its daps join the first Quest by depositing cro in the Kronos ZK evm

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page ibrl just says increased bandwidth reduce latency all right so I had one take from the multicoin summit um so they it was uh they had a Kyle had a great chat with Senator Hagerty and without sharing too much of the details um it does sound like a positive stable coin legislation is going to come I'm now on your page that the stripe acquisition of bridge is an Instagram moment I was like I I wasn't as convicted as you were at the time but I'm I now after hearing Hagerty speak so I do so here's what I think will happen in stable coins is um I think we're going to see positive legislation come out in January I don't know if this means approval or like starting to get really proposed and pushed forward but like something in early 2025 good stable coin legislation will happen once that

happens we're going to see the banks get comfortable holding stable coins once the banks get comfortable holding stable coins we're going to see the banks start actually issuing stable coins as they see how much money folks like tether and circle are actually making after that the tech companies I think are gonna see how much money the banks are making by issuing stable coins and they're going to say wait wa wait we've got the relationship with the users not the banks anymore and so I think you'll start to see one prediction that I'll probably end up having is Twitter Facebook you know WhatsApp I guess that's one company telegram they're all going to launch their own stable coins and I think there's this like domino effect of um like legislation comes

Banks start holding Banks start issuing tech company start issuing US dollar maintains Global Reserve status uh as we basically figure out how to export dollars to the entire world and so that was just biggest takeaway from that from the multicoin summit was like I think people are grossly underestimating I think people think that there's like oh stable coin bubble on Twitter and people are talking about that we're like inning we're not the game hasn't even started for St exactly absolutely a spec of dust yeah know it's like why wouldn't you want to have uh increased dollar reserves like status and demand for dollars worldwide um the question that um yeah it'll be interesting I'm not like an expert on legislation how long in the

process but some people most of the smarter people like of what I've heard like that takes time like multiple years um it's more of a question can you get it through in the next four years um but yeah maybe we love to have someone come on and and really kind of lay out different scenarios of the most aggressive case the more like had how it has historically been done and then yeah you know CU I think there's I think there's two main bills right now which is uh one is the lumus Gill brand payment stable coin act this was uh this was introduced in April so it's uh

bipartisan right Jill brand is Democrat lumus is obviously Republican um and then there's the um uh who's the guy who's retiring uh M McKenry and Hagerty proposed The Clarity for payment stable coins act right uh a couple months ago and then I think you had um the house Financial Services um it was uh McKenry and uh Maxine Waters are also working on a bipartisan stable coin bill so I don't know whose bills it's going to be I don't know the process but I think there's three two to three bills and I think something will get we go through right yeah hopefully yeah it like when you say go through in the like you're saying the next four years or the next year or like what's

um well I guess you could the most optimistic is that a stable coin legislation passes during the lame duck period of Congress coming up um but I think the yeah the I mean the the timing and likelihood of that are pretty low I would say um I think you know there's regulatory pressure from folks like the you know Yellen the treasury secretary and then Federal Banking regulators and that's obviously going to flip uh come come January once once Trump is uh running the country then you've got um and but I think you'll I think you'll just have like real strong Global competition that ends up forcing this uh through and people will realize I also think governments have historically underestimated uh the power of crypto in keeping them uh what's the right word

here solvent no like yeah honestly like yeah like I I don't know I think um I think stable coin providers are going to become the buyer of Last Resort for these for these bonds yeah and uh we talked about in the episode with Eric uh like you know historically there have you had to dance around like from a policy standpoint with China because they were such an important buyer treasuries but when tether imagine a world where collectively the stable coin issuers like tether become surpass China like well you're going to have to negotiate with or at least take care of that contingent and I would argue it' be easier to negotiate with that type of

contingent than it has been China yeah I mean I'm I'm way out of my depth in talking about this but like if the treas the if the treasury market you stop having demand in that market the yields start to go exponential and who's keeping these yields from going exponential it's I mean could be the stable coins so yeah yeah yeah depends depends on the paper you buy and the shape of the curve and all this like shortterm block but yes Jordy from selini if you're listening uh you tell us how what I do know is that um bullish week for uh for Trump and crypto so maybe just to give a highlight of some of the things that happened and the The Reason by the way that I think these things are actually important is because there were a lot of people saying hey look if Trump gets

elected will he actually hold his promise of like being proc crypto and a lot of people said look he won't actually be Pro crypto he's just telling you idiots this so you'll give him money and then he's gonna rug you and I think this week was actually a pretty clear indication that he will be Pro crypto so a few things happened one is uh he he met with Brian arong and you could say this is just a meeting but I think this is important because the last Administration I mean you could give him you give him 50 million bucks in donations and they wouldn't they wouldn't schedule a 30-minute meeting with you it was impossible to get a meeting with with Biden impossible to get a meeting with Warren impossible to get a meeting even by the end with Gensler so this Brian meeting I think

was pretty important two was um he announced that he's appointing a cryptar uh within the white house uh this person's quote going to be armed with a small staff and tasked with serving as a liaison between Financial Regulators Congress and the White House on crypto policy um and then third is uh Howard lutnick is getting a key role we already kind of knew that and the fourth which is the craziest one obviously is truth social which Trump obviously has a huge staken is entertaining or late stages to buy backed and new crypto people might not know what backed is but back was like big shame the darling zero volume yeah the darling so there's this company called intern

International Continental exchange ice they own the New York Stock Exchange and a myriad of other exchanges and uh Market infrastructure companies they launched this company called backed originally as a as a custodian institutional custodian and then they layered on an exchange and um it uh it I mean it just has done absolutely nothing they went basically they went public but the stock is trading at next to nothing they I think I thought they went bankrupt honestly I thought they were out of business I think they've been trying to sell this thing for years um Vol has volume not done anything really I mean I know the first week was like like like even the shittiest amm in uh tier four chain was doing more volume

than back but I mean here you go I'll show you the uh here's the here's the chart so yeah but I'm not talking about the price I'm talking about the volume of back yeah like the actual volume of back like comparing it against like you know other other players I don't even know if they're big enough to get can you get volumes oh yeah I guess they're public so yeah yeah well I think you might be able to see it but all right this is a week this is a week ago um 200 yeah I mean 165 million 165 million in 12 days that's that's November alone

no no no this is 165 million in October that's what binance does with a you know in hours right with a shitty asset yeah so anyhoo like you know uh let's look at here I'm looking at coin gecko um markets salana just salana alone does two billion in volume on binance a month no a day a day right yeah yeah of course these back number these back numbers were a month let's pick a goat which is you know dug by Ai and all the Rays there so okay markets

um gate.io does has done $68 million in volume in the last 24 hours don't sleep on gate sleep on gate yeah like U well I must say some of this volume is a bit off but you can feel good about um like uh I guess radium Yeah well yeah okay radium's Vol you see radium's volumes past unisoft volumes radium yeah I was looking at radium last a couple of days I'm like that could have been I missed it I'm like out of curious I was like well most of the volume because when you go and trade on Jupiter like a lot of you see where it's being routed I'm like oh like I was seeing like radium and I'm like I'm an idiot I could have like traded radium when I was buying all these me so radium

talk about a partnership deal radium uh pumped off fun deciding to with radium I mean that's so so radium radium did five billion in weekly Volume last week compare that to Unis swap 3.5 billion um I actually think there's an interesting takeaway here of so Unis swap is uh deployed on 23 different chains radium is only on salana there's an interesting strategy of like does it really make sense to go super multi-chain I guess this is more just Salon imune coins are ripping don't look to don't look into it too much um all right P pivoting topics here let's talk about the one narrative that is happening which is uh AI agents so um it seems like the timeline is

basically dominated by like AI agent stuff um so we talked about goat a little while ago and I think you had said you're like goat could be the lightning bolt for AI agents starting to happen um and I think I think that was a good call so you're seeing social media influencers that are AI agents Luna uh venture funds AI 16z there are launchpads virtuals uh spectral for trading um there's actually a eth global hackathon after Devcon there were 700 plus projects submitted AI agents just dominated those um yeah there's like industry AI which is creating like a gamified interface for multiple agents to work together to complete tasks I'm

just reading our research newsletter where they were talking about these um but anyways there's a bunch of uh coinbase oh this this was the big kicker coinbase's developer platform um has agent kit SDK where they're running llms under the hood that let you launch an AI agent super quickly so I think a lot of this is happening on base it sounds like so I don't know that is a I guess that is the real that is the narrative that's happening right now that was my yeah that was my thesis going in on Goat um what do you think of the I mean i' i' I'm this is the wrong podcast to Listen to If you want to get super deep into these because I haven't been paying super close attention unless unless you have I have a g goat uh like there's so much that has proliferated in terms of

like tell me about Luna like tell me about AI 16z or like Luna I got Pitch Luna Luna is this this platform that like uh allows you if you're a Creator or or a KO or an influencer to create this AI Persona that like is your Bot basically right it's an AI Persona that resembles like I can tell you I can tell you no I believe so yeah there's like different platforms that are allowing you to do this but like if you're a recognizable figure you have like your own AI here this was this is Sandra the I think founder of kaido she said in the AI agent space we've seen the first viral AI agent trained on forchan data goat AI agent launchpads virtual crater

bid FIU AI influencers Luna on Tik Tok autonomous VC agents AI 16z General agent infrastructure spectral AI agents creating tokens anonymous ly luminous agent creating an entire soundtrack zero bro I actually listen to that song kind of slapped AI agent that gives you Market Alpha Ai xbt and an AI agent that trades for you spectral yeah pretty cool I this this feels like uh go go spend the weekend playing with some of these things yeah I agree yeah anything else here no I think I should mention that I have a position in goat and it's not small and this is not Financial advice and I'm biased when I talk about these

things Barry silbert big big boss he's back he uh has he been launched he launched Yuma which is a startup in the bit tensor ecosystem Under the dcg Umbrella W interesting big week big week I guess um okay other things that I'm thinking about are uh micro strategy um micro strategy is basically just trading as a here let me pull up this chart of of the old sailor pump here I thought this was a pretty good chart from uh David Canalis at block Works uh so the orange shading in the

background is the supply of Bitcoin that micro strategy owns the Orange is Bitcoin and then the purple is micro strategy so you can see it tracking it for a very long time right here and then it in the last couple of months I guess this year it's really just ran away so uh yeah micro strategy is on an absolute Terror stock is up about 600% year-to date it's hitting just daily 10% jumps it now has better returns than Nvidia on an all time on on the uh these alltime time frames I think that's the time frame that we're looking at um no but is still higher but close oh it's right here oh it's it may have changed but close okay it's coming

very close it's coming close um but yeah the uh what else happened they oh so they announced this their latest convertible debt offering is increasing to 2.6 billion um they announced yeah the 40 billion or $42 billion buy they bought 4.6 billion worth of bitcoin last week at an average price of like 88,000 um collectively their entire Holdings are I think the average price before maybe this latest purchase was like 50 or so sub 50 yeah but 50 price I well now they hold I think they hold like 330,000 Bitcoin which is like one and a half to two% of the entire circulating supply of Bitcoin

yeah yeah I guess the be so I mean just very interesting I I don't fully understand this honestly it's uh it's trading at like three to four times their their net asset value against the value of their Bitcoin I don't this is like a grayscale all over again good yeah this this doesn't I don't I'm like why would you be buying this if there's a Bitcoin ETF what does make sense to me is um what this guy Dylan lir is doing in Japan with uh I think it's called meta planet where there's no Bitcoin ETF in Japan so they just did a I think they I'm pretty sure he just did like a pipe like a private investment in a public entity and just kind of flipped it into this like shell company where they've been buying up Bitcoin so I think what

you'll end up seeing is in all these markets where there's no Bitcoin ETF yeah you'll see a random company just start like a shell company start buying Bitcoin and that makes actually sense to me um but doesn't make sense as why micro strategy would trade at a premium where you have the ETF I see that doesn't make sense to me my my other prediction for these for the uh for these markets is you saw Rumble so rumble's a like an alternative video streaming platform they teased a Bitcoin treasury allocation their CEO Chris posted a poll on Twitter about should they add Bitcoin to the balance sheet 300 uh 36,000 people voted 90% said yes um and the market actually on Rumble pumped like 11% so what that and you saw a bunch of other people genius group

Cosmos Health similar scientific Marathon now it is now popular yet again they're announcing Bitcoin purchases and the price of the stock is going up and do you know what this reminds me of Long Island IC tea yes sir Long Island I and the reason I say Long Island ice is because I mean was it the last Market or was it to markets ago I think if I think maybe two markets ago I forget honestly when but if you if you put blockchain in your name control F and then yeah or yeah yeah so people have been people been doing this with AI the last like two years now it's like that's all right that that that pump's over Let's uh if if I'm a CFO I'm like wait wait I could

move one% of my treasury into Bitcoin and I could get the market to jump 10% I'm doing that all day long so I think next year you're going to see all these uh all all these purchases I'm actually now not because it makes sense but because of the incentives what phase of the cycle is that it's Euphoria phase three don't you read my Twitter threads I do I'm asking the question I gotta jump soon ladies and gentlemen before Yano convinces me to sell and mortgage my house and crazy St with all this bullishness stay um I don't think a lot of you guys are euphoric uh I guess uh housekeeping uh we are thinking of as as as it is no surprise I've been spending

more time in New York we're going to be maybe doing an event in the first like early December and I think the best way to's like what are you talking about stop operations te just shed a tear yeah yeah yeah no no no like a small small scale EV uh it'll be you have to be in the telegram you yeah yeah join the telegram if it happens if is going to happen you're going to listen learn about it first there but it'll be nice to see folks before the end of the year it's been it's been a good year and um you know great Community we have going there there's how many people going strong there a thousand now I we've got 670 670 so gotum pump the numbers last but not least we have a code for you

guys for D we just announced novag grat is joining us um Eric Peters who came on the podcast is now in we haven't publicly shared that yet but um yeah Empire 10 Santi is uh s fighting for a spot he's you see how I get treated here ladies and gentlemen I've been sitting in this chair for four years but is you know close to 30 years in in C I think I'm gonna get inversion cap swag before you get blockwork that's the best thing so 100 I mean that's an I'll that's an that's an no-brainer the designers who I am working with which are fantastic uh send us like the creative stuff the logo and we site and of course they put swag I'm like when they when they slap it on

a sweatshirt I'm like I want to see I want to see how it looks like on a t-shirt you got to do it you yeah yeah it looks good it looks like I'll uh maybe I'll do the unve of the logo uh next week or I don't know if we're recording next week as a Thanksgiving but anyways maybe I'll just do the first unveil here in the Pod for people to see not that it's super like you know interesting or whatever but um all right guys thanks uh thanks for listening enjoy the weekend we have a great podcast coming out on Tuesday with um uh santi's album mod Pary uh Ben and Kevin it is a banger twoh Hour episode on their 10 predictions for the year 2030 I would highly recommend it so and then that's We're Not Gonna See We're Not Gonna See folks uh like a Roundup next

week because of Thanksgiving right no we're we're we're cooking over Thanksgiving we don't stop oh I love it let's go or or I don't or or we might cancel it last minute not not not a m it's my favorite holiday of the year but I'm down to cook here um because I can't cook in the Real Kitchen yeah so let's uh yeah let's do it I was going to wish people Happy Thanksgiving but I guess I'll save that for next week say save it for next time all right enjoy the weekend see you folks thanks folks take care hey everyone thanks for watching today's episode just wanted to quickly thank today's title sponsor scale scale really is one of the best chain experiences out there today and I've used so many different chains there's a reason they are gaining so much adoption in both game ging and AI use cases hit

the link in the show notes to explore the scale ecosystem [Music]