Crypto in hard mode and the opportunities Zeneca still sees

Transcript

Crypto has been decorrelated from macro for most of this year. Like stocks, gold's alltime highs. Silver's, you know, pushing alltime highs. Uh it's stocks is doing great. Everything's doing great except crypto. And so it's weird to say, well, now if everything starts crashing, crypto is also going to crash. What's up everybody? It's LG here and welcome to the Milk Road Show, the daily crypto show where everyone says the golden age is over, but still spends all day looking for the next 100x. Today is December 4th. We're recording this on December 3rd, but it is the fourth for our guest. Zedica is back and the timing couldn't be better. In his recent Substack letters, he's been brutally honest about the market, the chop, the exhaustion, the false hope, and why easy mode is over in crypto. It's no longer easy. It's now hard. Today, we're going

to break that down, how he's navigating the environment, what he's gotten wrong recently, and where he still sees real opportunity. Today's episode is brought to you by Block Trust IRA. Let AI outsmart the market and grow your crypto while you sleep. Reserve ETFs get exposure to the entire crypto market in a single token and chain link. Break the interoperability barrier. and power the future of tokenized finance. And Zenica, he's back. The legend has returned. What's going on, dude? >> Ah, hey, good to be here. It's been a while. Um, yeah. Yeah, let's >> It has been a while. What's What's changed, man? I feel like you came on maybe two months ago and your your your newsletters to personally, I think your newsletters have been kind of all over the place in a good way where you've gone like, "Hey, listen. It's over, but hey, there's still opportunities. How's

here's how you find an edge in this type of market?" What at on this current time, what's what's your vibe on the market, man? How are you feeling today? Bitcoin's kind of bouncing back. What's going on? >> Yeah, I feel I would say my vibe for the last few months has been cautiously optimistic where I I don't think it's over. I I mean, I'm long-term extraordinarily bullish crypto. Short to medium-term for this cycle, I think it's kind of anyone's guess at this point. And that's kind of the feeling I get talking to a lot of people that I know that have been around for a while. It's like they just it's very hard to pick. If if we went back sort of a year ago, I think most of us would say the bull market is not over. you know, we've got a lot of room left to run, which turned

out to be correct. Now, I think you can make a really strong case for it being close to the end or we get another another leg up next year. That's kind of how I feel overall about the market. I do think, like you said, that the easy mode of making money, those days are well behind us and probably not coming back, but there are still opportunities and ways to find an edge in crypto for sure. >> You said the easy mode part. I'm just repeating what you wrote. That wasn't me. That Don't say that. I said that. You said that. >> You were saying that I said it. Yeah. I was saying that you said now you're saying that I said it that you said it. So what did you what did you mean by the easy mode? What do you mean easy mode's done?

>> So like if you look back at 2017 or 2021 most people I well let's look at 2017. Most people I know that were in crypto in 2017 have a very similar story like including myself which was oh yeah I didn't really know what I was doing. I made a bunch of money and then I roundt tripped it all. And this is kind of a pretty standard 2017 era story about crypto 2021. Uh, it was Oh, I didn't really know. I kind of knew what I was doing a little bit. I got into NFTs. I got really excited and I was able to mint, you know, you'd mint these random JPEGs and then they'd go up like 10x or 20x and yeah, I made some money and some of the people roundtriped and some people kept the money. These days, you just don't hear people talking about, oh

yeah, I got really like it was very I made made a bunch of money. It's like people aren't making much money anymore or not as many people are making money. I think it was very easy to basically get lucky and fall ass backwards into money in 2017 or 2021. You just had to be around. You just had to, you know, there weren't that many opportunities. You just, you know, whatever. I remember once like the local exchange uh here in Australia listed XRP for the first time. I had no idea what it was. I did 5 minutes research. I bought it. It went up like 20x in 2017. Like, oh, cool. These days there's exchanges have hundreds or thousands of tokens listed.

There's infinite options out there. You're not just minting an NFT by clicking a button faster than others and finding an immediate 10x. those opportunities to get what I would consider easy money are kind of behind us. Um, and I don't think those days are coming back. So, that's kind of what I meant by the golden age, the easy money is over, but there's still plenty of money to be made. As we get into the show, if you invest in AI or want to, you need to read our free newsletter, Milk Road AI. The first edition dropped this week and it covers the massive drama going on right now between Google, Meta, and Nvidia. So, sign up for free today. Would you say the fun part is dead? because that part like you're talking about gas wars with NFTs and that was nuts in the middle.

>> Yeah. I I think I think I think NFTs were more fun than any other time I've had in crypto including prior to NFTs. I don't want to say the fun part is dead. It's still there's tremendous fun to be had in various different ways. Prediction markets is is a is a fun way to get involved and you know you can you can have a lot of fun there but it's um yeah it's not as fun as NFTs. So I think and plus what is one of the most fun things in crypto for everyone it's making money like people just it's it you know you can be just if we're being honest people just want to make money and it's most fun when number goes up and it's most fun when you're in a group and you all that's why NFTs were so much fun cuz you have this like hive mind

group collective where you'd all buy a thing and it' all go up together and you'd all be celebrating and it was this social element and all of that again I wouldn't say it's dead or behind us but it it is tough for me to see those days coming back in quite the same You said too that you know retail is here potentially but not coming back the way that we want. What do you what do you mean by that? >> Yeah. So I mean I reckon for the last 2 years people have been saying oh just wait till retail gets here then we'll have alt season. Retail is coming. And um I kind of bought into that as well and I believed it for a little bit because previous cycles and historically there is like a moment when there's a bare market and and retail and the rest

of the world kind of doesn't care about crypto and then things start to pick up, prices go up, exciting stuff happens and people start flooding back in and you know you get these these echoes of old seasons and you get these pumps across the board and all that kind of stuff and that hasn't happened this cycle and I don't think that that's happening and I think part of the reason is that a A lot most of retail has had the opportunity to be in crypto. It's been 15 years. Either they just don't care and will probably never care because they're not the type of person to have that, you know, risk appetite or or just don't want to just be involved. Or they've been in crypto, they got in and they got burned and then maybe they came back cuz they were like, you know what, I I can

do it better this time and then they got burned again. And so I I just think that it's it's unlikely that we're just going to get this flood of new people and new money going, you know what, 2026 is the year that I'm going to make it in crypto. Um, you know, I I'm I faded it in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 202 all the way. And but this is my year. So I think that that sort of philosophy is is flawed thinking. Now the exception is obviously, you know, it's 2026. There were people that were 15 years old in 2017 who are now, you know, in their mid20s and maybe making money and earning it. Like there there is obviously that longerterm mindset of as the population ages and more people spend more time online then yeah, people are going to be getting more into into

digital assets and crypto and stuff. But um I think it's more that retail has come in a different way this cycle or entered via ETFs and and by that more pragmatic approach of I'm going to allocate a few percent to crypto and bitcoin and I'm not going to go in and be a den and trade all the memes and NFTts and stuff. >> There's no commercials this time with Matt Damon telling them that fortune favors the bold. That's not that's not happening. Or uh all the FTX celebrities like Tom Brady and everybody. >> I think there's still FTX fallout honestly. like that there's it's it's like obviously people got a lot burned by that but like the celebrities and and you know the the the people that maybe could be out there talking about crypto are very shy to talk about it now because of what happened.

>> Tom Brady is still recovering from his his NFT collection >> which is a separate project. Anyways um okay that's a great perspective and and I totally agree. I still see people get demolished on the timeline though. I'll just say I don't know if retail came or not but people never learn their lessons. What uh speaking of that, let's let's circle back, Zenica, to I think people always want to know what you're doing right now, right? I think, you know, to me, I've always wondered like how do I classify Zenica, right? Because you you're obviously you're an influencer. Um but you're very smart. You write really informed takes. You you you you do give kind of um I would call it like emotional investment advice, not specifically what to buy, but how to frame yourself as things happen, right?

I think this was really great about your Substack. So, with that in mind, with everything you just told us about like listen, this is hard mode. What is your approach to this current market like to end the year and going into the new year? >> Yes, my sort of motto and approach for pretty much the whole year has been less is more and consolidating out of a lot of positions and into fewer positions and moving away from being an active trader to being like sort of more I would say semi-passive investor, not passive, but you know I used to literally make dozens of trades a day, sometimes more um and well over a hundred a month. Now it might be honestly like 1 to five in a month um if that. And so it's still trying to keep an eye on the

market. It's still trying to outperform the market and outperform Bitcoin is basically the goal in crypto. But instead of trying to find, you know, the daily runner, the latest memecoin, the, you know, the uh the bridging to the brand new chain that just launched and finding opportunities on there, it's trying to spot and catch the more macro trends like, you know, prediction markets. That's kind of a hard thing to bet on. Um, privacy coins, um, you know, Zcash and and what are the the other things alongside that? Is AI coming back? Is there going to be a new AI meta? What tokens are going to do well there? And so it it's it's a lot more freeing for me in the terms of if you want to be an active trader to be successful, especially these days, I really think you need to be spending,

you know, 8 plus hours a day sitting behind a screen just tracking markets and in group chats and across everything and trying to be early to things. Whereas if you're taking the approach that I'm now taking, uh you can sort of spend a lot less time and still catch some of the bigger moves. But it's it's not that it's obviously not easy. Um, and I've gotten some things wrong, but I think that's that's the approach that I'm taking now. And just being happy to sort of sit in my hands and, you know, come up with a thesis, buy into something, and hold it for months and months and months. Whereas previously, my sort of holding period would be a lot shorter. Now I'm like, I'm going to buy into something, and you know, my thesis is it's going to play out over the next 6 months. Let's see. And then we sit and

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what Reserve's decentralized token folios bring to the table. Reserve ETFs are rule-based baskets of crypto assets packaged into a single token, like Coin Market CMC 20, crypto's version of the S&P 500. Go to milkroad.com/reserve to find out what's on offer. You wrote an article recently, and now it's a little bit older. It's 2 weeks old. Uh, is the bull market over? Right. And in here you gave I think you gave your 10 signals to be 10 reasons to be bullish, 10 reasons to be bearish. Um, and what's funny is that you referenced back to a previous article of yours from last March saying is the bull market over which is funny because that came and at 3 4 weeks later we had a huge bottom right on the tariff uh around the tariff liberation day and then we bounced back into a pretty juicy market up until

recent times. in which case I'm just trying to draw a parallel here that it's like it feels like when you called is the bull market over maybe we are weeks away from a bottom before a major rebound. Um so tell us a little bit about your thinking there. If anything's changed since this article last two weeks please tell us that as well. But you you basically told us that it's a coin flip as to whether it's done or not. >> That's kind of what I said. Yeah. So, I initially wrote um the first is the bull market over post in March and um back then I you know because we were you know we were dipping and and people were wondering is is it all over is it a left translated cycle and all that kind of stuff and I sort of looked at all the

reasons to be bullish and bearish and at the time I felt very bullish. I I thought you know there's obviously a chance that it's over maybe 20%. but 80% chance bull market is still on. You know, there's all these catalysts we're going to bounce back. And we did and that worked out and I felt good about that. And you know, that's the thing. It's like you can never be 100% sure. You have to sort of come up with some sort of percentage cuz no one knows absolutely what's going to happen. You need to come up with your best educated guess and use like probabilistic thinking. So, I did that then and I did that again a couple weeks ago and that's how I came up with the 50/50 which is it's not the most helpful thing in the world going well there's 50/50 chance but if if you really think about it in

terms of percentages sometimes you're going to be 80% sure sometimes 70 60 50 is just a different percentage that sometimes that's exactly how I felt and I kind of mostly still feel the same way maybe I feel a little more bullish now that we've sort of weathered a bit of a storm we've had like a flush out of leverage we've had a dip we've we are recovering a bit But it's probably like 60/40 still. I think there's still a very reasonable or realistic chance that the bull market is over. But um there's like I said cautiously optimistic. I think that there's enough there are enough tailwinds. You know, Vanguard just allowed uh you know their I don't know 11 trillion I think is maybe the amount of money that they they manage.

They sort of um customers to buy crypto ETFs which they previously said that they would never do. There there are plenty of reasons to be bullish on a macro sense. There's there's a few reason reasons to be bearish, but um overall I'm I'm still feeling pretty good. >> What's the most bearish reason in your opinion? What what like if it is it's totally done or done for a year or two or whatever, what's the thing that you're like that's that's what it was? >> Yeah, that's that's a good question. I think it is it's probably tied to macro and so it's I think if we get which is it's funny because crypto's been decorated from macro for most of this year like stocks gold's alltime highs silver's you know pushing all time highs

uh it's stocks is doing great everything's doing great except crypto and so it's weird to say well now if everything starts crashing crypto is also going to crash but I think that it we're in this weird semicorrelated state right now where if there is like an everything bubble and you know AI crashes and brings down the rest of the market with But then I think crypto market will panic and we'll get a big dip and big flush. It's probably that it's it's yeah there's not really one one thing that's you know way above the other. It's like you sort of see um some fears about like uh quantum computing cracking crypto and bitcoin. Oh yeah, okay. That's that's a fear and a thing.

You see things about like the digital asset treasury companies sort of imploding and there's all this fud about Micro Strategy a few days ago and yeah. Okay. Yeah, I I can definitely see a bunch of those blowing up. Maybe not Micro Strategy, but some of the other ones and combined that that makes me that there's enough there that there aren't that many big bullish crypto catalysts ahead of us like you know go back a year or two you had the ETFs to look forward to. You had the positive you know regulations to look forward to. You had the stable coin act. You had all these other um things. you had the uh the strategic reserve and for the most part we don't have too many of those big catalysts coming up ahead to look forward to specifically but the fact that they've happened are all positive

for the industry and and so >> do you think AI is a bubble? >> Yes. I just don't know when it's going to burst. I think I think you know AI not just AI like tech stocks um the stock market's basically been up only since 2008. There's been, you know, obviously the co blip and a couple of small minor flush outs, but it's it's really really valued insanely high right now. And I think eventually it will adjust and crash. I think AI is I know re like alongside the internet the greatest technology and and the biggest um it's going to create the biggest upheaval and change we've we've seen as as a species.

And we're starting to see it play out now. I think it might take a little longer than maybe some people thought and that might lead to a bit of a well either one or two things will happen. Either it'll take a little longer than people thought and you know there will just be a period where these companies have been valued so sky-high and then their revenue just can't catch up for a while or they can't create enough products that people are using for a while or it will happen really quickly but then in that case it'll lead to a lot of unemployment and and disruption and people will lose their jobs which we're already seeing in America and and all around the world like you know unemployment is or new jobs are like on the on the decline and and companies aren't hiring as much and they're laying

off and and that will also lead to some sort of flow on effects and and issues in in the markets. But um yeah, I again it could happen in 6 months, it could happen in 3 years, could happen in 5 years. It's but I think we're we're due and we will see a big crash uh probably on the back of AI and tech being valued too much. >> Do you do you have a favorite AI app? Is there anything you use? >> I mean I use chat GBT. It's it's it's nothing fancy. Um but you know I went through a phase where I was like I'm going to try all the new new you can't keep up. Like it's a full-time job to keep up with all the like oh for image generation there's the what is it the banana the nana whatever that new

>> banana from Gemini. Yeah >> exactly and then oh if you want to make videos it's this one. Oh if you want to do music it's this one. If you want to do you know writing it's this but this type of writing it's this one. It's just like so I just use I don't use it for like I don't have a project running where I need like a lot of help or assistance and dayto-day like if I'm not a coder. I'm not trying to vibe code anymore and do all that kind of stuff. So, the main reasons I use AI is brainstorming ideas for newsletters and hey, you know what? What should I write about this week? And all right, here's what I wrote. Um, did I miss anything? Should there any topics I should cover? And then it gives me some ideas and I go

off and write and then um Yeah. >> Got it. Okay. Okay. Thanks for sharing. I got to circle back to to crypto here because I feel like we actually haven't really talked about the majors too much. U was one theory I've been seeing or one narrative we've seen and we've discussed this on the podcast this week and and I first heard it from Matt Crosby at Bitcoin Magazine on our Monday episode. um that Bitcoin has actually been in a one-year bare market since last year. Would love to get your take on that, Zenica, because maybe it's the first time you're hearing it, but I've definitely seen it on the timeline in the last couple days. >> Yeah, I I can I can understand that because if you just I mean, Bitcoin is down compared to where it was a year ago. I I mean, it's kind of an

optimistic take if you if you if you believe it because if it means we've been in a bare market for a year, that means that generally um there's like a one-year bare market and then like three year bull market is kind of how the cycles have worked. So there's there's so many narratives you can play with. So well, if it's been a bare market, then then it's we don't have the bare market ahead of us. It's like we just have to get to the end of this bare market and then go forward. I don't don't really believe it, but I think there is some credibility behind it if you compare it to like I know some people like instead of comparing Bitcoin to US dollars, they compare Bitcoin to gold. And for instance, it's it's not doing so well that time around or this time around

obviously or again like we said before, it's it's underperforming the stock market and and so many other asset classes. To me, it feels like a choppy sideways market. I know maybe it's splitting hairs, but a bare market is in my mind where the price just is significantly lower. So, like, you know, I don't know what we were a year ago. Probably we're pretty close to bang on 100k. I think about a year ago. You know, if we were at like 60k, 50k, then I' i'd be able to a lot more stomach. Yeah. Okay. We're we've been in a bare market, but you know, we were hit 130 and then back to 105, then 90 something, and then 120 again. And you know, we we've been all over the place and it's it's been choppy enough for me and we're sitting at I don't know, 93 this

morning. It's I I find it tough to say we're in a bare market, but um I I can understand why why that argument is being made as well. >> It's the optimist take, man. So, I feel like I feel like you would you would adopt it a little bit as well as like long-term optimistic or caution or potential. >> I do like it. Yeah. >> I think everything else in crypto has been in a bare market pretty much for a long time. >> Well, this is what I wanted to ask you is when are you going to post another portfolio update because we had we about doing it. Actually, I was going to do it this week and then I just I randomly was like, you know what? I I just had this idea about the parallels between crypto uh poker and and crypto. I was like, you

know what? I want to write about that this week. >> But I think next week I could do a portfolio update cuz it's it's changed decent amount since last time. Um partially just because markets crashed and you know, some of the things I was bullish on has not performed that I mean nothing's really performed that well, but um yeah, I think maybe next week I'll do a portfolio update. Well, I'm keen to see it, man, because you know, I think one of the things that people talk about these days is that a lot of the midcaps, all the alts look dead. You know, they haven't moved like anything besides Bitcoin totally, right? And but at least things like Ethan Salana had these big spikes at times, but all the other stuff, all this these big bag alts, DeFi alts, all that stuff like those look like why, you know, I think a

lot of people are finding it hard to find a reason to invest in those, right? and that or even to hold them if they've been holding them for five years um without any developments. So, I'd be curious to know, you know, how would how would you approach something like that right now? How should people view the ungodly amount of tokens that there are, even ones in the top hundred where you're like, is this even something that's relevant anymore? >> Yeah, I think I mean again, there's just too many tokens. So, in the past, you had this rising tide lifts all ship phenomenon where everything would kind of pump. that those days are long gone though that just that's never happening again. Now you sort of see pockets where like certain metas or areas like okay all the AI tokens are doing well because

you know this that or the other or all the um it could be the DeFi tokens or whatever pick your sector and I think those days are even now becoming a bit more behind us where sectors aren't rising together and you really have to find the individual tokens and and have a good reason to be to have conviction in them. To me it's it's Probably the best reason I've found is the revenue matter and it's like find tokens where the like the projects behind them are like genuinely making a good amount of money and they have a mechanism mechanism in place to use some percentage of that money to create cause the token price to go up by buying it back or by by some one way or another.

Hyperlid and hype being a really good example of that. Unis swap recently announced their proposal I think a month ago or so to turn on the fee switch finally. things like that are things that I would look at. It's not enough, but I think that if like that's where you can, it's kind of funny and ironic that now we're starting to finally look at these things like businesses and and you you can start to kind of value and and find things that might be undervalued because the token price has tanked, but the company is still the same. They still have tons of users. They're making good money and they've got a plan to pump it back in. So, as long as you think that they're going to stay around, stay relevant, have market share, then there can be good buys out there. And this is the time to be buying

alts. Like if if you do want to hold, have a portfolio that has altcoins in it. As always, you want to buy when everyone calls them dead. You want to buy when the prices are down 80% 90%. You want to buy when people have written them off. You don't want to buy when people are euphoric and that, you know, everything's at alltime highs. You know, Warren Buffett's, you know, be fearful when others are greedy and greed. It's that that's it's sound logic. And I think that there there are like I will say that this sort of last week or so has been the first time in a long time I've I've been sort of tempted and and curious about maybe I'm going to reallocate and buy buy some alts.

>> Oo dude, how do you manage that? I think that that's one of the hardest thing the easiest things to say and one of the hardest things to do in crypto or being in in volatile markets is saying okay do the Warren Buffett thing, right? Because you even had especially when you have so many reasons that tell you that that's wrong. And I think that that's what happened to a lot of people in August, September. They're like, "Oh my god, like we're having a green September and you know what's coming next? Q4, right?" And then you had a week of that and then boom, it's been crap since then for two months, right? And I think and now the same and now I would say you're almost at the same point on the reverse of >> Yeah.

>> You know, this is a great time maybe to start allocating and and even people coming on our show are saying, "But listen, the 200E EMA is 56K, man. just wait for that you know and then that so it's like I think doing that in practice is so hard because you'll always have so many voices telling you otherwise you've clearly mastered this Zenica how do you do that how what's the how do you how do you remember that in these times you give some >> I I have not mastered it but I do have a trick so like I I I succumb to FOMO I saw everyone talking about punk strategy on the timeline I was like I want to get in I saw people talking about Zcash and I wasn't early to Zcash I was like I want exposure to that and so my quote

unquote trick or hack is that if I feel the FOMO, if I have that desire where like I want to get in on this thing, but it feels, you know, it's it's at alltime highs or everyone's talking about it, I um and I don't I don't think this is a great strategy and I'm I'm I'm certainly uh lost money at times doing it, but it's basically I don't allocate stables or my Bitcoin or ETH pile to it. I will just reallocate some of my other alts. And so if I think that, you know, uh I really want to get in this new altcoin, um punk strategy being a good example, I'll be like, you know what, yes, but I I'm already pretty heavily allocated to alts and alts are as risky as they are.

I'm going to, you know, sell some of one of my other alt positions and put that into this. And yeah, I could be, you know, buying the top of this and selling the bottom of the other one. And I I try to make sure that I'm I'm not selling something that's, you know, at all-time lows and things like that. But that at least protects against me chopping up my the the base bulk part of my portfolio entirely and and losing out on um like I'm not putting stables in. I'm not putting Bitcoin in and stuff like that. But yeah, it is really really really tough. Like I try like I try and save the stables for times like this when things are really down and and like buying the fear. That's a lesson that I've had to learn over years and years and years after I bought the top with

stables and after I bought the top so many times because of FOMO and euphoria and excitement and bullishness and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, it just takes takes time and experience and discipline and tricks and you just got to figure out what works for you and it's it's really really really tough and I get it wrong all the time as well. Sure, tokenized financial products are the future, but there is a big sticking point. They all need to speak to each other. This is a tough problem to solve, but chain link does exactly that. It's the universal language for financial markets, linking Wall Street to web3, banks to blockchain, and so much more. See how Chainlink is linking the world by going to milkroad.com/chainlink.

Zenica, I asked um I I I forgot to do this sooner, so maybe an hour before we started recording. I I asked our Milkroad Pro community if they had any questions for you, and only one person saw the message in time to to to actually give it to me. Uh and the the question, I think it's kind of a joke. ask him to teach us how he made his millions. Okay? And I I'm gonna say that listen, if you go to Zedica's Substack, the pinned post is growing your portfolio from zero to$10 million. And everything he's just said about that mentality to me is how he's done it.

Okay? I'm just going to point that out. You don't have to answer that question, but I'm just saying that it's like times like these where's like, "Listen, we're going to 56k or whatever, and you're deploying, you're being smart about it, and also managing your alts properly instead of fomoing more." that it's to me it's it's being reasonable rather than being uh unhinged perhaps and maybe you want to comment on that >> but um yeah that post is probably the best answer to that that question there is >> what are you looking forward to in the new year man because I think that that that's probably the big question is I feel like you're really good on sometimes on top of trends or like you said maybe Zcash you're a little late but when you zoom out in terms of the sectors that are coming the ones that

are hot you've shared this with us on the la on past episodes at this point in the market now that things have been totally rinsed. What do you think has legs to continue and maybe see some upside in the new year? >> I'm industry-wise, like you could say like poly market people will use it and maybe there'll be a token. You know what I mean? Like you could just trend wise what's what's going to be >> just about to say uh prediction markets. I think they're they're extremely I mean they're just the biggest apps in the world right now or some of the biggest and fastest growing apps in the world. And AI, I think AI as a sector is, you know, I've said this, I think every single time anyone's asked me this question for the last two or three years because it is such an incredible

technology. It is such an important part of the world and it is continuing to grow. I' I'd group robotics in there with AI as well. I think they they also go hand inhand and we're starting to see, you know, massive leaps forward in robotics technology um outside of crypto and and some people are starting to integrate it within crypto as well. So that's kind of cool to see. But um yeah, obviously stable coins, but it's it's a little tougher to get good and solid and reasonable exposure to the stable coin space. It's kind of it. And I would say base is like I I think we're getting like an we're going to have another base season and we've had a couple in the past, but with the token speculation, with everything that's going on over there, I think assuming the bull market sort of continues or even this chop

market continues as long as we're not in like a deep bear or something that's really depressing. There will be opportun there will always be opportunities even in a bare market. But I think if we have a semi-reasonable market, there'll be some good opportunities over on the base chain. And so I'm if if I was looking to spend a lot of time in crypto, um I' I'd focus on probably those three, AI and robotics, prediction markets, and and bass. And and maybe even just pick one of them and go really deep. But um I I think there's good money to be made in all three of those sectors. >> Dude, if Bass dropped a token, would that just absolutely crush every L2? >> It would. It would go a long way in doing that. I think honestly, most of the other L2s are kind of struggling as

it is and not doing so hot. it it's becoming tougher to justify the uh the the valuation of like I I can understand why other L2s exist but why they're valued so high um especially when there's base token coming and when there's mega ETH coming which I think is to me one of the most exciting L2s we've seen ever because it's genuinely gamechanging to me um real-time blockchain transactions is is a big deal but yeah I think again there's just too many L2s too many tokens most we've already seen have failed are failing, are trending towards zero. But I mean, I'm I'm it's I'm extremely bullish Ethereum. It's getting tougher to be bullish ETH the token, but I'm still a holder and believer that one day we'll

we'll see the surgeons and they'll figure it all out. But yeah, I I think uh because of that, I'm bullish L2s and I think that scaling Ethereum and having that I don't know, handful of L2s that that succeed are will happen. >> Can ETH ever hit 10K or even 5K? >> I think it eventually will. it to I still think it's inevitable. I think there's obviously some small percentage chance that it implodes somehow and doesn't but just if you look at everything that's been built on it is continuing to be built on it, the companies and institutions that are adopting it and building on top of it.

It's almost like in that too big to fail stage right now. Um alongside I still think of like there's Bitcoin, then there's ETH and then there's kind of everything else. I know that that gap has gotten a lot smaller, a lot lot closer. Salana is obviously a lot closer to ETH than it was 5 years ago. there are alternative chains popping up and and all of that, but um yeah, it's just a matter of time, but uh hopefully we don't have to wait too too long. >> I think a lot of people are with you in hoping that that happens soon. Maybe 2026 we get another euphoria. >> Probably my biggest biggest underperformer of this definitely my biggest underperforming this cycle has just been the amount of ETH and ETH denominator.

>> It's insane. It's still like at 3K, you know? It's just it's just so it's just it's very challenging. um we trade we got so much ETH from our NFT trades years ago and yeah you think it'd be if it even had a fraction if we could have even just done a little bit of what Bitcoin's done >> that would have been or if we just swapped all that ETH to Bitcoin also would have been good. >> Oh well also would have been good. Yeah. The one saving grace I have is that at least from the bare market lows I don't know ETH hit like 7 or 800 and we at least did like a you know a solid 6 or 7x from uh from there from the bottom to the top which is very good return in any market in in a couple years but

obviously when you're sitting at you know comparing it to other things and and looking at on different time frames it it basically has yeah underperformed uh almost everything. Well, I mean, if you're a more active trader too, Zenica, and and this was called in Milk Road Pro by Kyle and the team is, you know, back in April, ETH had a great had a great spot buying spot. You know, it had a great opening there that was almost a 3x to the highs. Of course, impossible to more than 3x, right? But impossible to buy the exact bottom and sell the exact top, but still even today would have still been a pretty decent return if you were bold enough to uh to get to get to scoops >> 2x. Fantastic.

>> And shout out shout out to our pro researchers, man. and they were calling that being like, "Okay, you got to do it now." You know, I was like, "That's kind of crazy, but that's that's who you got to be on." And who knows, man. Maybe we'll have the, you know, maybe we'll have that those types of moments coming soon, right? And sounds like you you're maybe potentially looking at scooping maybe not ETH, but some other stuff in the near future. >> Yeah, some of the other things that have maybe just crashed a ton. Um, >> at least keeping an eye on it and and I think if we if we get another big big dump or flush, then then there would definitely be some really great buying opportunities. >> Is hype still on your radar? Hyperliquid.

>> Yeah, I still I still own a bunch of Hype. I still think it's it's a great token. I think um I'm bullish on Hyper EVM and everything they're doing and yeah, it's it's still one of my biggest positions. >> Excellent. Right on. Well, Zedica, it's been a pleasure having you again, man. Uh thanks for waking up early and joining us on the show. It's always appreciated. Uh and I'm sure we'll see you in the new year. I want to see I want to see this portfolio update, man. You got to put that out. Uh we're gonna we're going to dissect it next week. >> Perfect. Right on, dude. Thanks for thanks for coming on the show and uh and good to see you again. >> Awesome. Great to see you. Thanks for having me.

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