Coinbase's research head on macro, institutions and a possible parabolic move

Transcript

And I I know there are a lot of people out there who are saying like tech stocks, crypto, it all looks expensive but the reality of this is that even when you're looking at earnings in the equity space right now, you're probably 10% undervalued at current levels. And I don't think most people realize it because they're just kind of getting sticker shock at this moment instead of thinking about where do the fundamentals, how do actually things respond in this current macro environment. So, I honestly think that the next move is going to be a parabolic move, higher, for, a, lot, of these, risk assets.

GM, good morning. Welcome to the Milk Road Show, the daily crypto show where crypto is plan A, B, and C because corporate promotions are too slow. I'm your host, Jay Hamilton. It's Friday September the 19th. Today, we're joined once again by David Duong, head of research at Coinbase. Today we're going to talk about the recent Fed meeting just a few days ago and is it going to finally bring retail back? Last time we had David on the show, we talked about the 7 trillion plus that was in money market funds signaling that retail really isn't here yet. So might that be a catalyst for them to start to move risk on? Also, Coinbase did a deep analysis on seasonality within crypto and the results are going to surprise

you. We're going to dive into debunking some things that crypto people like to say is the pattern to bet on. And then finally, we got to talk about DATs. We talk about DATs every day, but we got to know where we are within the DAT adoption and the DAT narrative. Is the DAT narrative fading? We're going to look at the data to see what's really going on. Before we jump in, I got to give you guys some really exciting news about what we're cooking over at Milk Road. We just upgraded our where we are in the cycle indicators. These are indicators available to Milkroad Pro members on the brand new Milkroad website. They're interactive. They're updated daily now and they're live within the Pro membership. So, if you

are a Milk Road Pro member and you haven't seen these new indicators, go check, them, out, because, they're, going to really help you understand where we think we are within the cycle and how you plan your entrance and exits. And if you're not a pro member, hit the link in the show notes. Go pro today. Today's episode is brought to you by Figure Markets. Grow your cash like a bank. No lockups, just real returns. It's also brought to you by KGN, the distribution verified protocol, changing the growth game. With that, David, welcome back to the Milk Road Show. Thanks, Jay. It's good to be back. Always a pleasure to have you. Okay let's start with the obvious conversation of the week, which was the FOMC meeting. How are you feeling about the rate cuts and what was your reaction to what Jerome Powell said?

So Powell delivered pretty much uh what we were expecting in terms of not just a 25 basis point rate cut which by this point was expected pretty widely but it was really what was going to come next like do they expect cuts in October December what's going to happen 2026 and I would say that the dot plot came in mostly on the screws uh the market is pricing 75 basis point cuts for 2026 and I think there's only one cut in uh 2026 pricing to the dots but for For the most part, I think that we'll see some convergence towards either 50 or 75 into next year. For now, though, I don't think it's the magnitude as much as the signal. I mean, they're basically suggesting what we said last time on the

show, which is labor markets are where the concerns lie. Yes, there might be some upside risks on inflation, but for the most part, I think that this is what they're responding to. And I believe that now the doors open for more liquidity space. Yeah, this is one of those situations where bad news is good news in the labor markets in terms of cryp the crypto markets and the risk on asset markets can benefit from these lower rate cuts. Last time we had you on the show, I'm going to bring up a chart you showed last time uh which really blew my mind was the amount of money in money market funds right now. So this is like you know idle capital that people are putting in low yield uh funds whatever

that mutual funds treasuries whatever that might be and it was over it's over 7 trillion this this chart might be a little bit old might be a month old but we were over 7 trillion at the time uh is when you look at this chart now knowing that rates have just been cut I mean it's a little bit early that I don't expect that we would have seen any movement on this yet is movement going to start to come on this with a 25 basis this rate cut. Is that enough to move money out of money markets funds and back into risk on? I absolutely think so because I think what we saw early in the year with the uh the tariff tantrum was effectively people were afraid to put money into put money to work. They were afraid to kind

of put risk to work in part because they were thinking this is such an uncertain environment and by the time they got some modest clarity and felt better about it, they were already caught off the side. So things look too expensive and I think as a result many people started putting their money into money market funds and other places like it's paying you like it's paying you 4% maybe 5% if you're lucky but I think now that we're getting these rate cuts and it's going, to, be, at least, 100, basis, points lower. I'd say that many of them are going to start rethinking how they're positioned and start to say it's not paying me enough to be in cash. I need to go further out the risk curve. Now the problem with that is that when

you're looking at equities, when you're looking at crypto, you might say, "Boy this looks a lot richer than I initially anticipated." And I I know there are a lot of people out there who are saying like tech stocks, crypto, it all looks expensive. But the reality of this is that even when you're looking at earnings in the uh equity space right now, you're probably 10% undervalued at current levels. And I don't think most people realize it because they're just kind of getting sticker shock at this moment instead of thinking about where do the fundamentals how did actually things respond in this current macro environment. So I honestly think that the next move is going to be a parabolic

move higher for a lot of these risk assets. Let's go, David. I like it when you say stuff like that. That is exciting. Okay. Uh let's I want to jump into a little bit more about why you think that is. before we do, what could what could debunk that? What what could because what I'm what I'm noticing right now is everybody I talked to is in a nobody's has the confidence to say parabolic move higher. I like that you're saying that conviction, but uh everybody is talking about yes, we're we're set up to move higher.

Everything looks good so long as macro plays along. like there's this caveat that everybody keeps h keeps bringing to their to their thesis right now. So what could disrupt that macro thesis? And maybe we can focus on the US monetary policy because that's sort of like the talk of the week. What what could make you, say,, "Oh,, I, don't know., Like, is inflation a risk? Is what are the things that you're still watching that you might be or are you like it's all good and we're we're clear for the parabolic move?"

Yeah, I mean this is where I preface and say I'm a I'm kind of a weird animal. I think that like most people look around crypto Twitter and say like everything's negative. Is this going to be a local top? And I look at everything and I say actually I have conviction in my macro environment and if people are actually taking the other side and want to be negative, I get more confidence that things are are probably looking better. So take it with a grain of salt. That's just kind of how I operate. But I do think you're you're right to point out some of these risks. So, I think that retail could step in. I think that the cash is on the sidelines and I think a lot of that could flow into risk. But you know, we have to kind of realize that the labor market is softer. Uh

mortgages are harder to kind of pay off. And I think that there's a dichotomy between what the inflation number tells us and what people feel. And the inflation number, i.e. the CPI print the core PCE number that the Fed looks at. All these things basically are derived to kind of tell us what I think the Fed is going to do in terms of monetary policy and whether that liquidity could be unlocked. But the reality of the situation is that the way people feel is that prices are higher and that things hurt, that things are painful. Um, and if you have less ability to negotiate your wages because the labor market is softening, if you feel that the cost of actually paying

off your mortgage, of paying your grocery bill, of paying like uh your your car like loan, if those things feel painful, do you necessarily want to put more money out there? And I think this is going to be the challenge because I do believe that push comes to shove, you cannot get around the idea that 3% 2 and a half% rates on a money market fund just are not paying you enough to actually sustain like your ability to stay out of risk. But at the same time if the economy feels weak, if you your pocketbook feels, you know, under stress, then perhaps you may not want to put more money at risk. And that and

that sort of explains the sentiment that we're seeing right now. Like this is everybody loves to say this is the most hated rally that there has been, you know, post tariffs. Basically, nobody has believed in this. What's your thought on tariffs? Are you still worried about tariffs for inflation? I I know you and I have talked about this a few times, but just to come back to that because that is a sticking point that a lot of the negative side likes to point out. We haven't felt the inflation from tariffs yet. Yeah, I've been very dismissive of tariffs up to this point and we're now about six months past the point where it was first announced. Uh I would still say that 10 months tends to be the lag point where you know these things really start to encroach upon

inflation. So we're not quite there yet. But certainly I'm more worried now than I was 6 months ago because at that time everyone was panicking and I said to myself, well, no, it's not going to hit immediately and we still need to see whether the producers are going to absorb some of those calls. We're now here and it seems that that has been the case, but it's not going to be forever. I think that there could be the chance where these things could have some pressures, but I also think that a lot of it could be offset by secular factors like AI productivity, like the growth that we're seeing in terms of the labor cost of capital. Now, if that's the case, I think that maybe we can remain

in this kind of trend. And people often point out, yeah, but we're still above the Fed's target of 2%. It's like, well yeah, because hitting a bullseye is really, really hard. Um, you know, like typically when you're talking about other countries, their inflation targets are tend to be a range. You know, you're like usually like 2% but plus or minus 1%. Um, so, you know, I tend to give the Fed some leeway here that they're not hitting exactly at one at 2%. But at the same time, I think that given some of the other factors at play here, I'm thinking energy prices. I'm thinking rent and shelter costs. So far, I think that I'm not seeing a lot of pressure emerge that I would be worried about a

stagflation scenario or other things that could also hurt our economy. Okay. So, macro setup, green lights everything looks good. Yes, there's some risks, but even those risks feel low to you in the short term. In the short term, yes. I mean, like I think that there could be a point in the future, and I don't know when that's going to be. I'm not sure if that's going to be mid 2026. I'm not sure if it's going to be later, but certainly I think there will be a reckoning. I think the the way I'm looking at it right now is that we saw that 20% downside correction in April for a lot of risk assets. I'm thinking equities, crypto things further out the risk curve. But you know, like I I would say that like

we came back pretty sharply. I think for the most part like that was the correction and that you know that was the opportunity in the period where getting in at risk made the most sense. Like again though a lot of people found that really difficult as you said this is why this is probably been one of the most hated rallies. But I think often times what you see is that people will capitulate and they'll say, "I got to do it because I haven't participated and now I'm really behind." Uh cuz you know that's the first rule of economics. It's all relative. Mhm. The best audience to distribute your product to, you're super fans. Duh. But what if you haven't found them yet? That's where Ken comes in.

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It's the first real world asset borrow lend pool built for everyone, not just institutions. Ready to lend like a bank and get more than the 5% A is offering you. Download the Figure Markets app today and get 9% on your idol funds. Go to milkroad.com/figuremarkets. Mhm. Okay, I want to shift from macro to crypto market. Uh you guys over at Coinbase did a great analysis recently on seasonality in crypto. Uh which is something that one of the most commonly shared charts on crypto Twitter is the uh I wish I had I could bring it up but um it's the uh the chart that shows all the months and it mainly focuses on Bitcoin and it shows you which months

Bitcoin performs well in and which months it doesn't perform well in. And September is typically known as a bad month and then October or commonly called October is known as a great month. What did you guys find? But like is this analysis that says that you know we can follow the month trend is that statistically sign significant? No. I mean short answer no. Uh it is statistically interesting like certainly the fact that you saw like six consecutive months or September rather between 2017 2022 being negative. I mean that was kind of odd. But if you had bet on that to continue in 2023 and 2024 you would have been caught off sides. You

would have been wrong. So, I mean, short answer, I would say that using monthly seasonality isn't necessarily a partic a particularly useful tool for trying to trade Bitcoin or any crypto assets. I think that yes, these things could kind of emerge as psychological effects and that's kind of harder to read whether there it's self-reinforcing, whether because it has happened so often people kind of treat it that way. But when we look at different modeling techniques we use frequency plots, we use logistic odds ratios, we did out of sample scoring, placebo checks, we did controls, all that basically tells us just month like calendar effects, they are not a statistically dependable

predictor of whether these returns are going to be positive or negative. So just the directionality alone telling you whether it's going to be positive negative, it cannot do it. So you know if I cannot depend it uh if I cannot depend on seasonality just to tell me whether things should be going up or down then I really can't even depend on it to tell me whether the magnitude of that should be really high or really low. Okay. So everybody you can throw out that chart uh in the future the next time an influencer tells you that this month is an up month or a down month. Uh as you I I think there is you make a good point though there is a psychological impact. I I can't even just the name October makes me want to

be part of that which probably leads to particularly in crypto where there's a lot of younger males who want to be part of these types of you know memes and these things. So there is that that effect for sure. Okay. Absolutely. But you know like I this is why we also added controls to our test because one of the things that could be possible uh was you know what if for example there's a major event in a month and you know it could be taxes in April for example, or, it, could, be, like, the lunar new year or bitcoin having windows I mean these things fall on certain periods of the year and do they drive performance we also did test for that and so far it didn't point to anything

meaningful Now, I kind of bring it up because you kind of have to consider like what I'm saying there because if you are saying, "Oh, there's a liquidity event that happens in a certain period of the year." Well, then what you should really be testing for is that liquidity event. You should not be testing for the calendar period where it actually happens because it kind of takes you even further away from the actual effect that it would have on prices. So, this is kind of a statistical kind of hang-up that I have because I think as you say so many people point to it. People just kind of show you this broad chart where like, "Oh, it's mostly red. Oh, it's mostly green." It's like, that's not the way you do correct statistical analysis.

Yeah. Well, I think that's the difference between you and most people which is why we get you on the show because you do like to do correct statistical analysis, whereas most people are, hey, give me the easiest way to tell the story that I want to tell right? And simplest chart is the way to go. Um, I want to talk about flows because we know that the crypto market is driven by flows and one of the biggest uh inflows right now is as a result of DATs. We've been talking about DATs um adnauseium on the show.

Everybody listening in, thank you for living through DAT mania with me uh and for all the various DAT conversations that we've had. But I do think this is this is something that's very important for investors to understand mainly just so you can understand whether you should or shouldn't be investing in it. U because for some people there's an opportunity and for some it's better to sit on the sidelines is the general takeaway that we've had so far. But the important question with DATs I think is first is what we're seeing right now is MNAV is converging towards par. So that's obviously a signal. You shared a chart in your recent report. Let me just pull it up for you quickly. Uh and then

I'd love to hear you talk through where you think we are in the DAT cycle. Are we early? Are we late? Are we mid? Yeah, I think that regardless of what you think about DATs, whether they're profitable or not profitable, I'd say that psychological debt fatigue is real. Like anytime you talk to someone in the crypto space, no one wants to talk about DATs anymore. I think we're all kind of tired out by it. Uh but it is still driving performance on a lot of these tokens. And even just this week, right we saw the dichotomy between what happened with Kindly MD or Nakamoto holdings relative to a lot of the new DAT holdings coming out for Salana or

Worldcoin or other things. Uh so it is still relevant to answer your question. Are we early mid late in the cycle? I still think that we're midcycle in the DAT uh world, but we are much closer to the end now than we were to the beginning. And I think the compression in the MNAVs i.e. like the the market cap relative to you know net asset value it has compressed very sharply across the board. I think there was a headline just this morning saying that 25% of all the Bitcoin DATs out there are now trading below 1 MNAV. So this is definitely this is definitely marked a reset in how investors approach DATs and approach the

space. uh because I think that previously, uh, a, lot, of the, value, of debts kind of were derived from speculation on growth in terms of you know like whether these things are going to be able to to borrow more to accumulate more crypto and the pricing has now shifted towards treating these as just reserve passroughs. So they're just basically transparent exposure for you know speculative equity plays on crypto and that's fine but I've been saying that these uh DATs are going through the PVP stage i.e. Now like you're going to see relative positioning, cost efficiency transparency. All of these factors are

going to matter a lot more than hype because there are so many issuers are entering the space. Competition has eroded the premium layer that really these structures commanded, you know these these great premiums early on. I don't think that's going to be the case anymore. I think that we are now completely moving away from hype driven adoption. This is the competitive normalization stage of the cycle. What about if we look at trading volume for DATs? What's the story here? Yeah, so trading volumes have also come down for DATs. Uh I think that this kind of reflects a lot of the structural elements involved in DATs. A lot of

people just think about it, you know onetoone of like, well, these their debts and they accumulate all this crypto. But there's all this other financial engineering that takes place in the background in terms of like the pipe deals, in kind transactions. Are these things being traded OTC or are they being traded on exchange? I think that these fundamentals really matter and that was really the case with Nakamoto Holdings. I would say that a lot of people kind of heard the media story about like you know the CEO David Bailey actually uh telling like traders to to exit from here and they kind took it at face value but the reality of it was that due to the filing that they made there was a change in the structure

for the pipe investors that allowed more of these uh shares to kind of come to market and therefore increase the float and that this really kind of contributed to the short selling/selling pressure that happened uh to occur afterwards. So I would say that the next phase of this really does depend on capital discipline, credibility, cost efficiency for a lot of the treasury management that's going on here. I would still say this phenomenon is still unfolding. We're we're not over yet. I think that we still need to see like which of these guys are going to become acquisition targets, which of these are going to become like you know potential for mergers and other things. So this is

kind of where like scale governance this is where all these things are going to come in as we get to the almost the last phase of the DAT cycle. But the narrative is fading is it feels and as you said the fatigue is certainly setting in on the narrative but not every chart is down. Sure trading volumes are down you know from highs of 90 billion down to around 40 50 billion now which is obviously a big drop since the August highs and as we said you know MNAV is coming down to right around one on both on sole ETH and BTC DATs across the board. But then when we look at share of asset supply we are still DATs are still gobbling up

more tokens. I get the chart up on screen shows Bitcoin, ETH and Soul and both are increasing. Do you expect to see this to continue to increase and to be continued demand from these DATs? I think so. I I think that you could also see this change very quickly if for example we're entering a more bullish stage which I do believe is the case. In that case I would say that flipping from these lower MNAVs into MNAV premiums again certainly could happen very very quickly if that's a risk-on scenario.

You'll also see that for some of the smaller players, uh, if they're not able to compete against the one or two big DATs that I would imagine will emerge for each of these tokens, very likely like they'll say, well, you're trading at a sub one mnave. I need to have more ETH anyway, or I need to have more soul or I need to have more Bitcoin. Maybe like the best way to do it is actually to, you know, gobble you up and actually make you part of our DAT. So I would say like either those smaller DATs are going to have to combine with other ones to kind of even stage some kind of competition with those bigger ones or the big uh DATs themselves are going to just acquire those smaller DATs.

What's your long-term framing of DATs? This is a question that I keep asking because I'm trying to find somebody who can explain to you what what are DATs going to be in 5 10 years? Is this just a a moment in time and that's won't even exist in 5 to 10 years that feels unlikely to me. But what what will they look like? What will they be? Will there just be a few that are really successful? Will there still continue to be lots? How do you frame it? I think regulation and by that I mean not just the the ones put out by like you know the federal government or whomever but I'm also thinking about what happens to internally within like asset managers and other ones who guide uh the the purchases of debts or other assets uh

inside their portfolio. They move so much slower than we're accustomed to. But often these things move slow at first and then they move very rapidly. Why do I bring this up? Because one of the big buyers of DATs tend to be asset managers. Asset managers who are not able to buy Bitcoin who are not able to buy ETH directly, but also they're not able to buy the ETFs. So often times what they're doing is relying on purchases of DATs to proxy the crypto exposure that they want. Now the reason they do that is because you can easily go to your board and you say like we know how to value equities. We know we've done it forever. So these stats we can actually do it because we can look

at their balance sheet. We can evaluate them. We can determine their price to book or price to sales or price to whatever ratio that we need and we can say that you know this is the markettomarket value that we think they should be at. So I would say that that won't change in the immediate future but perhaps 5 years time 10 years time I think it will. I think more corporate adoption or rather more institutional adoption will be very direct. So they're going to start saying you know well hold on why aren't we just buying the Bitcoin directly?, Uh, maybe, things, are, going to be trading 24/7 for example. And if they're doing that then actually buying the debt and only being able to trade this during like weekday hours from 9

to5 just doesn't make sense to us. maybe we need to like, you know, extend ourselves and and add that little bit of exposure into the the real asset. So, if that's the case, then this could change. I just want to um clarify one thing that you said, which is that these institutions have an easier time buying the DATs than they do the ETFs. Why is that? Often times their board doesn't allow them to buy ETFs. So Oh, really? It just mandate just says you can't buy ETFs, but you can buy public companies.

Correct. Huh. Interesting. I can't wrap my head around that, but I'm I don't have a a legendary finance background. So, um Okay. I mean, and also also like keep in mind so like they're just one of the buyers of the DATs. Other buyers of DATs include hedge funds who are definitely hedging themselves on the other side. So maybe have a short leg on the background. So they're buying the debts but maybe it's the hedge funds who could hedge themselves by, you know, selling or doing an option trade or something else on the other leg of the trade that we don't see.

Okay. So, we've got macro setup looking good perhaps leading to rate cuts leading to uh I mean rates cuts will certainly lead to more flows going risk on the scale of that unknown. Uh but more rate cuts coming feels like we're going into a rate cut season. Seems there could be more rate cuts this year. Uh I think I saw that nine of the uh governors on the um FOMC board wanted rate two more rate cuts 50 bips in this year and six want none. So that's pretty close. So we'll see what we get for the rest of this year. But macro setup looks good drives more flows. Dats despite the narrative

fading the demand is they're still going to, continue, to, buy, it, seems, at least, for the short term. So okay that's positive price action as well. What are the other catalysts that could lead to this parabolic move that you're talking about? I think institutions are definitely going to play a big role here and even if you do not believe in the retail thesis and you know as I said there are risks to that thesis I still strongly believe that institutions are really going to drive this cycle and it's the debts sure but I would say that even when we're looking at what's happening outside of our space like the AI fuel data center investments for example I mean like so much of this

money that's slloshing around right now like these like more than rival consumer spending uh in terms of their effect on GDP for example. So this is why I think the Fed cuts are so important because you know like we've seen this massive kind of shift from those aggressive hikes in 2022 which you know caused a very very shallow like potential like it wasn't a recession. It was kind of a soft patch in the economy although it's really hard to read because now we're seeing like all this revisions in the labor market and all this kind of stuff.

Uh but I would say that for the most part like these cuts like it's the magnitude rather I should say the magnitude doesn't really hit me as much like I would say if we delivered 50 we deliver 75 like I don't quibble about it. I'm more like interested in the direction like the direction you don't like get uh a down market when the Fed starts cutting rates again and they don't stop with just one cut. They will do consecutive cuts. So that's what's important to me. Like if it's a hikes hiking cycle, then I'd say all right let's evaluate what's going on here.

Like that's clearly like uh needs nuance to it, trying to interpret that. But for now, I think that we're completely in a risk environment based on what the Fed has done. Okay. Uh I'm going to wrap with one more question. I didn't tell you I was going to ask you this before the show, so sorry for throwing this at you. Uh, but what I would I didn't read the questions anyway, so there you go. You didn't have to say that. You're so honest. Um, so what I would love to do is, you know, we're getting you on once a month and uh I want to start a bit of a rhythm of like a few things to look at with you. So we can start to see uh progress in either direction. Um and and one of the main questions which is probably the most common question to ask

but also a very difficult answer is when does this bull cycle end? Uh you know and it feels like at some point it needs to end. I mean the uh just look the stock market has just been ripping for years other than the tariff minor dip. Uh and it just feels like that that has the the show has to end at some point. We have to have a bare market. Um, I'm gonna assume you're going to agree agree with that, but feel free to tell me if you don't. What's your thoughts on when that comes? Is that soon? Are we near the end? Is that going to be Q4? Are we going to go into 26? Could we go late into 2026?

I think that's the big challenge. And to answer your question, no, I do not believe that markets can just go up uh indefinitely in perpetuity. No markets do that, including crypto. Um, but you're right. I think trying to figure out when that when the music's going to end is like the big question a lot of people have. And I feel like that's responsible for why we've been seeing these fits and starts uh in our space. People saying like, "Okay, we get the Genius Bill uh that's been passed. Is that, the, local, top?, All right,, the, Fed cuts rates. Is that the local top?"

Like, what's going to happen if we get the Clarity Act? Is that the local top? And I get it. uh you know it it shows that a lot of people are attuned to their experiences from the past few cycles uh that you know like they don't want to be caught off guard um but I would say that it's for me like as much as I think these idiosyncratic drivers on the crypto space matter and I would you know when we think about Bitcoin and its technological aspects yes it separates it from other things like gold and other things in fact that's partly why I I think that if you were concerned about inflation and the risks that we kind of talked about earlier, then actually having Bitcoin makes a lot of sense because then you get exposure both

to some inflation protection as well as the risk asset, you know, the risk exposure that you want itself. In fact I think that's partly why it's driving like uh it's being driven by like institutions buying it. I'd say that the macro still determines a lot of the longevity of the cycle and the direction of the cycle. And if we're talking about like you know the Fed starting to hike rates again, if you know like right now like we heard from uh Steven Moran for example earlier this week as he was uh uh being approved to become the next Fed governor. I would say that he's talking now about what the long end of the rates

curve looks like. So there's this increased scrutiny whether borrowing costs both for mortgages as well as for businesses uh are going to be impacted by longend borrowing because if we're talking about 30-year rates above 5% are you know closer to the average uh over the last few decades of like 5.8% 8% what happens uh to a lot of those companies what happens to to uh the real economy. So I'd say that that for me is probably going to be the bigger determinant and I think that's absolutely the reason why both the Fed and the Treasury are so focused on it right now.

Sounds like uh we've got good times ahead and we will continue to check in on where you think we are in the cycle uh each week. Sorry, each month that we get you on. David, thanks so much for joining us again. No, thank you for having me. Thanks for tuning in everybody. Got to remind you as always, none of today's episodes financial advice. I'm not your financial adviser. David is not your financial adviser. If you need help with your investments, you should speak to a professional. And as I said at the beginning, if you want to see where we think the Milk Road Pro team thinks we are in the cycle, you should check out our new cycle indicators that we just launched. These are live interactive charts that you can click on and play with on our new website. They're for pro members only. So, if you're a pro

member, go check them out. If you're not a pro member, you should check out Pro and consider going pro. Today, thanks for tuning in, y'all. Have a wicked awesome day. We'll see you back again next week. We're sending Kyle Reedhead our head of research, to the UK's largest web 3 summit. I'm talking about Zebu Live happening October 21st and 22nd in London. Want to join? Use our code milk to get 20% off your tickets. Hit the link in the show notes and say hi to Kyle for us. As always, if you liked today's episode, please hit subscribe and make sure you follow us so you don't miss out on the next one.

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