Capitalizing on billions of RWAs and stablecoins coming onchain

Transcript

GM good morning welcome to the milroad show The Daily crypto show that's as important as checking your credit card statement after a big night out I'm your host Jay Hamilton it's Saturday February 15th and in today's show we're talking about an important Trend that we are seeing rwas and Stables are coming on chain at a rapid rate right now I'm talking billions per week and soon equities are also going to start to come on chain so this means that we are moving from the crypto economy being dominated by crypto native assets to the trend of trafi assets what does this mean for defi what does this mean for crypto and most importantly how do you

invest your Capital to take advantage of this growing Trend that's what we'll discuss today we also give our specific takes on some tokens maker hyper liquid and onos to stick around to hear those at the end now today's episode was actually recorded earlier this week and release to our Pro members if you want to get access to this episode the pro research meeting every week during the week and get this Alpha early then you can go pro today hit the link in the show notes or if you prefer to just wait and get it for free we release this every Saturday for you guys today's episode is brought to you by consensus who has consensus Hong Kong coming up this week February 18th to 20th in Hong

Kong if you want to go to that and meet with some of the best crypto builders in the world check out the link in the show notes and you can get 15% off your ticket use the code milk Road also today's episode is brought to you by crypto.com credit cards one of my favorite cards in the space highly recommend you guys check it out with that join me in welcoming the milk Road pro team for the weekly milk Road Pro research meeting gentlemen we're back for another Pro research meeting turns out the people liked the session last week I guess it was one of the best performing episod so uh I don't think we tried to make this a great performing episode we just literally want to talk markets and talk talk crypto shop uh which we do every week anyway now we're recording it and

uh I guess it worked so that's cool uh shout out to the audience glad you like our [ __ ] uh we're going to keep rolling we're going to keep doing this every week I think because we do it anyway so why not record it okay we got a couple things to discuss in today's research meeting a couple things in our portfolio that we want to just chat about couple hype new tokens and then just some ideas that we've tossing around just want to explore them uh we don't really have a conclusion or or a full thesis or idea on it yet but I just want to share some numbers of things I'm noticing and just get the everyone to kind of chat about it before we do that though let's just talk markets it's been a it's been a crazy volatile 2025 so far price hasn't

really moved we're sitting in the same spot we have been the whole time but if you happen to be keeping your eyes on the on the charts we're way the heck up here and then we're way the hell down here it's been wild some people are thinking you know have we maybe bottomed uh and we're kind of ready to go in our next leg up I have some opinions here but let's just see anyone else have any strong opinions in terms of just markets in general where we at or what are you guys thinking feels to me like the uh liquidation that happened over this weekend might be the bottom signal that we all are looking for like local bottom signal that we're all looking for I mean I think it's clear I I don't think any of us think this is the top although I'm

sure some people listening might think that but definitely don't think that but I feel I feel like that that type of flush out usually signals a local bottom so I feel like last weekend you mean right not this weekend last weekend yeah this this past this past weekend here let me share screen I'll show you what we're talking about here is it this one so this past weekend so February 3D yeah I look at the volumes on that so I got if you guys are not if you're not watching um this is the eth chart and those volumes are massive and that candle is [ __ ] huge too the last time we had volumes this high was the big bottom we had last year in August right

when we had the end carry trade we had this huge kind of drop and then um look it didn't just go up from there we still chopped a bunch but that did Mark the bottom right uh and so it looks very similar here doesn't mean we go up from here but maybe that what did we hit like 2100 2150 on eth maybe that does hit the low I don't think Bitcoin had a is bad like that Bitcoin just looks like what drop you know what pullback what are you even talking about salana yeah it was pretty heavy but this was earlier actually this was back in January man that's crazy salana and Bitcoin didn't even go lower whereas eth had that massive massive bottom out anyway continue I just want to show those on the charts it was probably the worst liquidation event in history of

crypto and guess what like nothing happened Dy worked as it was supposed to work and it's just just like tested that even through these difficult times it all works that's that's awesome to see yeah when when I look so the main chart that I look at right now which tells me probably we've bottomed is let me just share screen again here is this which is the ism so we've talked about this a lot well sort of talked about this we wrote a lot of pro reports on this in terms of the business cycle which is kind of how we at Pro Form our thesis around markets if we've bottomed in terms of or if we've topped in terms of the entire cycle um is around the business cycle

and so you might have heard us talk about like like macro Seasons or crypto Seasons like summer winter fall Etc and usually when the business cycle passes 50 or sorry when the ism passes 50 that is generally your signal that like we're in macro summer and generally risk assets do really well in this world uh this is when you get your banana Zone and so we've been saying a long time like the banana Zone's coming but it's just actually kind of been delayed because this we haven't had this like look at how long it took for the ism to to pop up here um ISM by the way is user Manufacturing Index yes yeah yeah basically it's like how much they're like the the economy is kind of growing and being uh people purchasing things and buying things like things happening

right so it's like a it's a real world look at the economy not like a estimated look at the economy it's like what's actually happening now obviously it lags or whatever but when it hits 50 and above that's generally a very bullish sign now the thing that's generally this also correlates well with liquidity liquidity is still lagging but it looks like uh Global liquidity is bottom of the chart up right now but it looks like it's it's maybe bottomed as well so I think at some point this is is going to really pick up and I think the ism is going to pick up a ton generally this would mean that things are going to go crazy but it doesn't mean it happens right away uh and I think what's holding back markets is just the uncertainty with Trump right and I don't know when

we're going to be done with that so it's um I don't want to call probably that East bottom there is the bottom but I don't think it's like okay we're going to go to valhall now we're going to go the next leg up I think this could be chopped for a while and I don't know that we can really decide that because we got to figure out when is this tariff [ __ ] going to be done when are we gonna have more just kind of like conclusive evidence of what's going to happen with Trump and the administration I think they're doing a [ __ ] sick job at least for the US I know everyone else is kind of pissed about at least my parents are uh which I don't know why they are but anyway it's just we don't know when that's going to

end and so I think think that's going to hold back markets for a little while but otherwise like the market structure looks very bullish and so I'd be buying here for sure if you were able to buy I know some people in our Pro Discord were able to buy on that third of February when everything dumped um like Kudos seeu because I don't think we're going lower or much lower anyway but I think we're preparing for next big big runup it's kind of reminds you of last year right um I hope it's not the same though because that was like eight months of chop so let's hope we don't have that but I think we will have a little bit more chop so originally I thought we'd kind of rip end of January and February Etc all the way until like April May I don't know if that's going to happen

we'll have to see what again what happens with these tariffs and in Trump but what about liquidity as long as we don't get tax uh rate Cuts we basically don't have the power to pump all of these Assets in my opinion at least and the strong economy shows us there's nothing going wrong basically in the US so they don't have to cut yeah I mean they're thing for us yeah it's it's a mix right they're also making the government extremely efficient they've probably cut I don't know billions and billions I don't know if it's like hundreds of billions yet but a lot of of spending from the government which um which helps with the deficit means they potentially might not need to print as much uh but it doesn't matter countries are still going to need

to print all around the world it's just it's not going to make that much of a difference this soon uh they still have to refinance all their debt and so liquidity is coming regardless and uh the dollar we'll see if it's topped out here where is the Dixie I can pull that up as well uh yeah we're kind of still sitting up there but I mean we're lower than we were like we got up to 110 for a bit there um we're at 108 we'll see what happens again the Dollar's just waiting to see what happens with tariffs and everything else so I think we just got to wait for a lot of this stuff to calm calm down I think the dollar remains fairly strong but I think it does come back down into this range uh and then we'll see what happens with rates But

ultimately I think liquidity is coming back no matter what this year and we're going to have kind of expansion in the econ which is the ism and so I think we're going to have a good we're going to have a good year but it's just going to be volatile and weird because we got to figure out what's going on with Trump so I don't know no strong opinions I'd say but the one the one thing I will say about about Trump and tariffs is Trump is very motivated by markets so he doesn't want to crash markets either and and what he did with the first tariff announcement which I think is I got to say is genius is he tweeted it that wasn't an official announcement he just tweeted hey I'm going to start tariffs on Canada and Mexico at 25% on February that's all and and it just crashed

markets and then he and then he was like oh oh that's what that did okay great backed off right and was like oh we're gonna extend it out a month right so I think people are very worried because yes he is very motivated by americanism and American accelerationism and all these things and so like yeah he does care about you know bringing more to America America First America first but he also really does care about markets and tariffs impact the global economy so I think there's a balance that he's playing here that I think we we won't see what he is threatening as much the other thing on macro is just like the the we know QE is coming because the US debt is is trillion dollars in in annual spending on the interest rate like and

rates are too high they have to deal with that so it's like it it it's just inevitable right I think it's just I nobody knows when but it's coming yeah so anyway macro I think looks looks pretty good we just got to wait to figure this stuff out uh in terms of trump so we just got to be patient don't be leveraged right now because the the swings in these assets are insane and so just don't be leveraged hold some spot buy the good stuff and I think um I think we're going to be all right uh okay let's move into the next conversation that I want to have which is just something I've been eyeing and kind of thinking about to me the only chart that I care about and have really like matters to me in crypto is stable coins and I know that's the boring thing

that everyone freaking hates but I love it because this chart looks insane so we currently sit at $224 billion worth of stable coins okay uh which is up a [ __ ] ton it is up 5 let me see get the numbers here correctly what is it up in since November first when Trump took over it's up 52 billion in 10 weeks so to put that in perspective that means 5.2 billion do are moving on chain every week for the last month two two and a half months that's insane insane amount of numbers Okay then if we look at um real world assets so this is like other trafi like think of the dollar as a

trafi asset right fiat currency moving on chain there are other trafi assets that are moving on chain right that's private credit that's us treasury debt Commodities I mean stocks eventually Etc that currently sits at 17 billion okay and in November 1st that was sitting around let's just see here the exact number 13.5 billion okay so we're up about three and a half billion in 10 weeks so that's $350 million of trafi assets moving on chain in per week in the last 10 weeks so these numbers are pretty crazy and if you do the maass here let's assume no uh no growth rate change okay so it just it continues to

grow at the rate it currently is rate now if we so that's $5.5 billion do of trafi assets coming on chain every single week if we just do the math from to look a year out Feb 2026 right that's uh that's 288 billion dollars that are going to move on chain so then we'll have 530 billion trafi assets on Chain by Feb 20126 now my assumption is this growth rate increases right because we're gonna have better regulation it's already increased a ton starting in November because of trump taking over I imagine that doesn't slow down I think that only picks up so we're going to be somewhere between 550 50 billion to a trillion dollars of traditional assets coming on chain because like stocks

haven't even started to come on chain yet they're just starting to right Ando just announced they're going to do that there's a few you can buy on base they can get like Tesla and a few others but it's super small I would imagine that picks up pretty heavy this year and so I do really think this probably goes to maybe a trillion to put that in perspective let's exclude bitcoin's market cap there is only a trillion dollars of of crypto native assets on chain right now right and so stable coin and real world assets are 25% of that currently and I think that's going to go to a trillion by the end of the year now I also think that Crypton native assets are going to go up a lot by the end of the year so I don't think they're going to like be the same but that's a lot of

new types of assets that come on chain and I just want to try to understand and get your guys' opinion on like what does this mean for the onchain economy and what are the real winners here from this like if we bring a bunch of stocks on chain so Tesla moves on chain and Microsoft and Co base and whatever all move on chain and we get treasuries on chain and we have you know half a trillion of stable coins on chain and credit comes on chain is all that traded on like Unis Swap and normal dexes uh like obviously this is very bullish for Block space because it's just more things that need to be moved on on blockchains and they're going to require block space for that so okay bullish wherever the stuff goes which

interestingly most of it is moving on ethereum which is funny because everyone's like ethereum's dead and then you look at the stocks that are coming on chain the private credit the stable coins it's almost all on main chain ethereum which is odd to me um obviously salana is having a a pretty good jump in stable coins as well it's hit like 12 billion so like there is growth there too um but the growth is actually faster on ethereum and so I'm just wondering like is this big for whatever Pro new protocols come out that launch this stuff like ando's new all1 which by the way is it's own L1 it's not on ethereum or is this big for like dexes like do you think people are going to trade stocks on Unis swap and trade private credit on Unis swap or like how do you

guys see this playing out Adrian why don't you uh why don't you start us off you got any thoughts on this I hope most of it moves to ethereum but as you just mentioned Ono will launch their own L1 they have the good connections to Trump to Black Rock so I hope they don't get a too big uh part of the pie um I know there's um an rwa specific Layer Two actually um plume Network which uh did a interesting test net where you can tokenize stuff make nfts from it and this was actually fun I'm wondering whether they will get more traction or whether as you just said most of it will basically be on layer one and then get traded on Unis swap but uh certainly the

existing infrastructure should profit a lot from it yeah I I would be surprised if it's not a lot on the main blockchains that are ripping right now like Bas salana maybe ethereum I guess ZK sync is actually getting a lot of this real asset stuff which is I I'm not really sure why um there's a new protocol I think that launched on there uh but but how cool would it be the thing that I like about this is like let's say I'm on base right now I can trade I can own eth I can own Bitcoin through CB BTC and I can swap into my eth into Bitcoin now I know it's trusted Bitcoin so like Bitcoin Maxis whatever uh but if I just want exposure to it right I'm not putting my whole net worth into it and thinking the world's going to end I can just do that for free using

cow swap on base that's insane now if I want to take my eth and I want to put it into a stock that is extremely expensive right now right I got to like move it over to coinbase and then I've got to move it into Fiat then i' got to move it over to my quest trade or my bank put it in my direct investing account then I can go buy Tesla right or coinbase and that takes weeks and costs a lot of money but let's say Bas launches and there is already a protocol there I can't remember the name of it but let's say all of a sudden I can now trade Tesla on there and I can trade coinbase on there and more stocks and then I can start to buy gold on there too and uranium or whatever like I'm never going

to leave my cash or my Capital from from that one chain right it's just all going to sit there and I'm going to do everything I need right there because right now it's very fragmented uh we talk about L2 fragmentation think about like crypto asset fragmentation to to traditional asset fragmentation and that's all going to be in the same spot and so I don't see why everyone doesn't move that way now the other the other option is maybe it's not a about which chain it's on maybe it's like Robin Hood or coinbase just gives the interface that allows you to trade stocks crypto Commodities treasuries stable coins all in their interface and like whatever chain it's on behind the scenes doesn't really matter uh and you just do it in the app and so maybe this is more

bullish interface which is like coinbase Robin Hood maybe PayPal they don't seem to be pushing as as strong as like Robin and coinbase are or or maybe this all happens on dexes that's what I'm not really sure I would imagine it's on dex's and you're going to be able to trade Tesla on Unis swap in the near future which is going to be pretty cool which just means more volumes to dex's which means more value to dexes and so I mean Uno's valued at about eight billion right now um the NASDAQ for example is I think 50 billion and so but the NASDAQ you can't trade crypto Unis swap if you're all of a sudden you can trade stocks and you can trade crypto like you can see where and now there's more competition I would say in crypto right now for this stuff but like you can see

how these volumes are going to go way higher and they'll eventually be valued I would assume these decks will be valued more than something like the NASDAQ which is quite interesting unless coinbase and Robin Hood takes all that activity that's what I'm unsure of so we'll have to see this will I think this will primarily first happen on the Dex say not on Robinhood because it just needs some time until they adopt that stuff and uh I know from previous protocols who tried to tokenize stocks that they always had a problem with the PEC so I hope they have a new mechanism to hold it because on Terra a protocol on defi chain it didn't work out so far so hopefully they do a better job then I think there's a protocol called backed on base and it's um it's got just a few stocks but it's been pegged they've done

a good job on keeping it pegged and it's worked quite well uh and so I don't know I think I think the main issue was more around just you couldn't do it in the US and it was like hard to do it because of Regulation I think that goes away so that's why I think um right now we're not seeing any growth in stocks com on chain I think that's about to rip in 2025 and I think that's going to be a really cool Dynamic and probably a thing that brings the more trafi institutional investors to actually come on chain because now they can trade stocks at night right like at any time on weekends they can do whatever they want and so like it feeds into their addiction and they can provide liquidity burn with it yeah exactly there's gonna be so much they can do with this so I think it's

going to be um like I think a lot of Institutions don't care about our crypto assets because most of our crypto assets are actually just dog [ __ ] and so it's like they probably want to come and use the chain but they don't want to use the assets we have on the Chain right but I think once we have better assets on chain because like to be frank every crypto asset almost like 99% are complete dog [ __ ] like complete dog [ __ ] even some in our portfolio we're just hoping that they become not dog [ __ ] soon right but almost everything is dog [ __ ] uh including eth including Soul they're all dog [ __ ] and so institutions are like we're not touching this stuff but when Tesla and Microsoft stuff come on chain okay I think they actually

might get a wallet come on chain and [ __ ] around but I don't think they want to do it with like the dumb [ __ ] we have on chain right now uh Martin you got any thoughts on on um yeah kind I wanted to talk about ethereum because ethereum is the most secure blockchain and now when we are talking about layer twos and like all these sexy layer ones cheaper faster whatever they don't care like we care because we are retail like some people you know few cents it's it's much more manageable than if you are doing transaction ethereum mayet costing 10 bucks but like Black Rock they don't care like the only thing that matters to them is the security and what's the most

secure blockchain and liquidity right yeah and liquidity yeah that good point so that's ethereum main net and like even for me I still have most of my assets on ethereum Main ad because that's the most secure chain there and layer twos fine they are improving but they are still multix pretty much all of them yeah it's like back by con Bay so you have a some trust in them and it should be fine but you you never know what happens right and yeah Trump is bullish but you know one day he wakes up and he will just do some stupid things and all of a sudden you can lost all your funds so I think like black rock and all the big asset managers they only

care they primarily care about the security then the liquidity and then everything else yeah I agree which which by the way makes me think that I don't think that Ando actually get gets a lot of traction here I know you said that they have the ends with black rock they don't they have the ends with securitize which is what runs black Rock's bidle fund uh Anna doesn't actually have a connection with black rock and yeah I can't see a brand new chain that just launched what did they launch like last week or maybe it's not even ly yeah right live there's no way big companies are GNA be launching a bunch of stocks and things on here or like maybe Ando launches it but then like will they actually put large liquidity in it like I don't think so I could see them doing it one on ethereum as Martin

just said two on base because they can like some sort of partnership with coinbase to do it right they're already putting a lot of other assets on coinbase anyway so that's seems like an easy next step for them but I don't see them doing a bunch of random L1 especially brand new ones like like condo depends on the on the timeline because institutions take a very very long time to all of to do all of this stuff when they start in one year maybe on one is ready right I think this starts this year though anything else you want yeah and then you were talking about coinbase Robin Hood if they are going to use dexes or they are going to just use front end but still use the traditional Railways I think it comes down to if you buy stock on Robin Hood what happens on

the background and I think they they are using middleman I think Robin Hood is using citel or someone so if it's cheaper for them to provide you stock directly on chain then they are going to do it because they can you know everyone is here to make money and if it's more effective like cost effective for them to do it on chain they're going to do it well you've already heard the founder of Robin Hood he came on I think in January he was on TV saying like I think he said it's an order of magnitude cheaper for them to put a for them to facilitate assets that are onchain than assets that are not onchain and so like it to me it's so freaking obvious that all assets will go on chain and that's how they're

going to do this and that's going to and and I think we needed Trump though we needed good regulation right uh in order for this to happen and I think we're getting it so Adrian is Right does that happen this year or do we got to wait for the regulation and then it starts right so it's like regulation comes end of 2025 then 2026 the stuff starts to happen or do they just start doing it pre-regulation because like technically there's no regulation saying they can't do it they were just afraid that they'd go to jail or something there there was Sab 121 right which is you know hot take everybody's waiting for the Strategic Bitcoin Reserve or the stockpile or whatever but the removal of Sab 2021 did not get enough attention because that was absolutely huge because now Banks

can custody crypto they couldn't custody crypto before I mean you could but it was an accounting nightmare because you had to classify it as both an an asset and a liability at the same time which was totally ridiculous be interesting to see how fast they do it because they are slow moving but I think it was um whoever had of the podcast was saying like it's not like they haven't been trying to do this like they it's already ready to do it they just weren't allowed to do it so like that could come uh pretty quick one other thing on the trafi world for a second is one thing I think we're going to see is pretty soon here is some IPOs from crypto companies and I'm just curious in your guys takes on like how does this change the dynamic of of of crypto because one thing I

think about is liquidity so right now if you want access to crypto you generally move your assets on chain or you got to buy coin base or you buy the ETFs it's kind of the only or micro strategy I guess actually and so we're probably going to get Kraken IPO consensus IPO Circle IPO H there's going to be more I'm not even sure who you had one chain analysis chain analysis maybe yeah yeah I guess some of the data companies stuff like I think there's be a bunch of IPOs I think it's gonna be 10 to 20 like we're not just a few yeah yeah yeah Dan tapier said he thinks he thinks that's the number we're looking at and so I just wonder does that do anything to crypto markets again remember

institutions want access to crypto but they don't necessarily want access to all the shitcoins that we have you know they're going to love this equity which is why I think they also are going to love coinbase now maybe they love the ETFs Bitcoin they haven't really loved eth just yet but I'm just I'm wondering does this what does this change like the Dynamics have to change here one this I think legitimizes the crypto space we have a bunch of these public companies but at the same time does it mean a lot of capital doesn't need need to move on chain uh I'm just not I'm not exactly sure what happens does anyone have any thoughts here on on what happens here because I think this is happening in the next I don't know six months we're gonna see a bunch of IPOs I'm pretty sure not

exactly the same Capital that would have gone on chain I guess right right I guess yeah but the rational behind it is is the same those are the companies that make that make money today and the investors see potential so that's why they all invest probably but yeah is the IPO such a big attraction or kind of you know getting attention hey this is I don't know kren doing IPO so so go and learn about them versus hey what if there are some like onchain businesses that are not doing IPO they have already token which is liquid but they might be making the same profits as you know Kraken or something so like is it going

to be like hey crypto doesn't only produce all all the meme coins and all the [ __ ] it also produces like very useful profitable legit businesses and now your mind only works because you only think and look at the stock markets but what if you really look under the hood what's available on crypto tokens today that could be your Edge you know what that just made me think of is so I've been calling the coinbase earnings which is coming out on on on Thursday we're recording this before that the Super Bowl of crypto right and it's interesting because it is the only like public company in earnings call that that Wall Street gets to listen to about

crypto so like they all whoever listens to it which I don't think even many of them do but they learn about crypto from coinbase and nothing else because there's no other earnings calls except for micr strategy but like that's not really teaching about crypto it's just teaching about how to do whatever the hell he's doing over there you know what I mean like it's not a lot of like less than crypto whereas like if you listen to coinbase's earnings calls they're talking about how are working and how they're generating revenue from them and they're doing this thing on chain and they're creating these wallets and they they're talking about all the different Revenue opportunities across the crypto space like you really learn a lot about crypto by listening to coinbase earnings call and when we have Circle doing that every three months and you have cracken

doing that and consensus doing that you're starting to get Wall Street to learn about all these different business models and like really the innerworkings of crypto and I think that's actually going to be a really big deal because you get one spot to learn and it's once every three months that's all you get it's not that it's not enough for Wall Street to really figure out crypto and I actually think that's going to be huge to educate and really help people like understand what's going on in this space so it's actually G to be really cool for educational purposes and then yeah I don't think it takes away a bunch of liquidity I think it adds liquidity because I think just more people will get more bullish like you said it really legitimizes like when people start to learn about what circle's doing how much

money they're making how much they're growing like like every time tether puts out something about how much money they're making everyone on wall Street's like what the [ __ ] is this thing what's going on here what's a stable coin so I think ultimately it's going to be it's going to be really good anyone else have any other thoughts quick break in the show to tell you about the crypto.com credit card my favorite credit card in the space for spending onchain dollars no annual fees a bunch of great perks like your Netflix and your Spotify subscription for free airport lounge access and you get cash back in crypto check out the link in the show notes to get your card today with that let's get back to the Boys At milro Pro I think

yeah I think it it brings a ton of attention in a positive way from a from an audience that is not as you said understand it and does not have access to information because they're not looking on chain and don't understand how to right and then I do think it brings it brings flows because I think these are different different buyers right those buying public stocks are very different than those buying on chain assets right and so you have you have the convergence of flows coming in from both sides now which is which is huge right if a whole bunch of these public crypto companies get a bunch of flows and have more Capital like that's that's massive that's great for them they can grow faster they can hire more people they can get more people working

in crypto like all these things uh are just DET Tailwinds yeah I agree there's also and this is just a rumor but it's potential a thing when these crypto uh companies go uh go public they can start to do the micro strategy play tap into the trafi debt and buy more crypto and there is some rumors around consensus doing this so Joe Luben who was a co-founder of ethereum they build a bunch of products for ethereum they hold a lot of ethereum if they go public supposedly there's this like rumor that he might be the Sailor for ethereum and he'll start taking out debt against his company to buy more ethereum and just run that Playbook that would be insane and that could happen starting this year

and if that happens like oh man that's going to be that's going to be fun to have like more companies doing this for multiple different assets it's just kind of funny that crypto companies just taking advantage of the traditional Finance world just to get more crypto uh but anyway we'll see if we'll see if that happens there's just a lot more that can happen from this so uh that's gonna be interesting all right let's talk about I mean we're going we're sticking around stable coins here which is kind of where I started this whole conversation uh but the most interesting chart to me right now is this let me just share my screen outside of the stable coin one I showed look at this this is Sky stable coin and their supply is just going absolutely Bonkers so it was at 5.24 billion on genan 1 2025

today it sits at 8.43 billion that's got to be the fastest growing protocol in 2025 so far in terms of like TBL if you call this tvl uh the supply has gone up 3 I guess like two billion in a month and 10 days uh which is absolutely nuts um so pretty cool to see it's now like way ahead of Athena in terms of its capital it's the third largest stable coin and its trajectory is just going crazy and it doesn't seem to stop every day it just adds like hundreds of million it just keeps doing it every morning I wake up I'm like holy [ __ ] it added 200 million more like this is um this is crazy uh Martin what the heck's going on man and

like is this bullish is this not bullish like what what are you what's your takes here bullish for who like normally I would say that it's super bullish for maker that the circulating Supply grows that fast um but you need to be aware why is it growing so fast and the reason is because ssds which is their stable coin offered 12.5% while all other rates in the markets were like maybe 8% so maker was pretty much offering super high attractive field and everyone was just want exposure to that super high

yield what changed this Monday is that they lowered the rates to 8.7 75% and it's still above the the average Market rates which are available on AA more for whatever right so if you are investor in maker or or we should say say sky I keep saying maker all the time [ __ ] I can't s it's like Twitter and X like I still call yeah yeah yeah the same thing the problem is that even now they lowered the savings rate but they are still paying 8.75% which is just like they are able to generate um some money using all that collateral that is on maker but now it's

it's just on a break even point so they are like pretty much giving all the revenues they are making to all to the holders of their stable coin so right now maker is like making zero profit it's at the they're not buying back any other tokens either right yes at the moment yeah yeah so so like but they are working on a solution which will introduce a rate Setter which will kind of update the rates more frequently based on the market conditions so like it ensures that sky remains profit profitable business and it's not just like you know those crazy yields which are paid kind of out of pockets of maker

holders or investors because we hold maker or Sky tokens because we want to see profits and now all there are no profits everything is distributed to Holders so we want to see yes circulating Supply growth is awesome but at the same time we want to see that make maker profitability is is still there and at you know some reasonable levels right what's what's interesting about sky or about sort of the the supply here is you can see if we want to share screen again um I saw run who's the founder of Baker talking about this like this is the the diversification of of where the yield all comes from and so they have a large portion of it just

comes from so like 44% is in usdc sitting on coinbase Prime uh and they're getting for whatever ever the treasury yield is uh and then they also have some cash rwa same thing they're getting just just treasuries so that's like 60% of all of the the supply is just getting four and a half percent from the treasuries right which and then they're offering eight so they have to subitize that but then they have you know the rest of it is in like spark Etc which is getting I don't know something like 12% or whatever it is in spark right now it changes all the time but a lot larger percent um but what's interesting is the reason they do this they have it in coinbase and they have it in Treasures because this is liquid so they can move this anytime in and out and so what's

interesting is at an 8.4 billion doll Supply and having about 60% in liquid uh like um stable coins I guess right now it's 45% let's call it um that means like almost $4 billion do is pure liquid which means if some institution wants to come in and buy or sell billions of dollars of usds they can do it with zero slip AG they can do it for free and you don't get that kind of Market almost anywhere in the world and so what they're creating is something that's actually super valuable one for retail who can just hold a stable coin and make you know 8.75% that's pretty sick but also for institutions who can do the

same thing and they can move in and out anytime they want with zero slippage you don't get that with any other uh stable coin right other than you can do it with USD and usdc but you're not earning any yield so what's the point right so it's um it's a game changer I think what they're doing they just need to figure out what's the right yield aspect so they can stay profitable and then if they're profitable they're could just buy back tokens and this thing's like Off to the Races so they've built in my opinion probably the best product in crypto currently and the most usable product in crypto because it's usable by retail it's usable by uh institutions and it's in the in the sector of the most obvious use case that's going to

actually make it which is stable coins right like everyone's starting to talk about stable coins and so I think this to me is like the best setup um I absolutely love and somehow this weekend sky was down to like an $800 billion do FTV how is that even possible 800 billion that's insane this thing's got to be worth way way way way way more it makes no sense there's also I think uh I guess it's because it's not profitable right now so people are selling out because they think it's not profitable but like that's the shortterm thing right my opinion I wish that was the case that like everyone is selling because of fundamentals are not strong but that's not the case like people are just keep selling maker because it's maker everyone sellings maker and maker

price never goes up right um no but I think it's pretty hard for like just average person to understand what's going on and what are the current challenges that maker is trying to face and address and what are the upcoming catalysts and like see the the bigger picture like for me I spent a lot of time with maker and I know some things but I I don't know everything and the problem is it's almost impossible to know everything but again there is a solution for it and like now maker is just interesting um stable coin out there but what maker is really building

is something which is called Atlas which will be kind of AI agent which like if I have some questions about Sky I don't need to go on the Forum or Discord and chat with run because he's not always answering sometimes he doesn't like my an some my questions so he just doesn't reply but now they are building AI agent which will be able to provide like everyone all the answers what's going on kind of bringing someone who is neutral and knows like everything see all the communications around so like what if maker at some point will catch AI narrative because they are bringing this AI agent which they they will open

source and provide like everyone else too they're also beginning to use AI agents to like find yield and stuff so they can get more like optimize their yield at least that's like part of his like plan as well and so really what you're getting when you buy usds is just like the best risk adjusted yield and you don't have to go and use defi you just buy this token it remains in your wallet and you keep to custody of it nothing like that exists in this world there's no other way that you can get this kind of yield where it remains in your own custody and you don't have to go and find all that you know you don't have to go around and play around with defi move it into treasuries and do this and that they just do it all for you so

I actually think like I'm a bit bearish on crypto in general lately I just like outside of stable coins and mainly what sky is doing there's not much that great going on in crypto to be completely honest a lot of it is a bunch of [ __ ] I'm not going to lie I think most of the AI stuff sucks even the AI agent stuff which like yes is exciting I think kind of sucks in crypto I actually just think there's not much more going on other than what sky is doing and and then just blockchains in general right like as we said all these assets are going to come on chain you know there's meme coins there's whatever I know there's going to be a million assets on chain and it's better to have them on chain than not on chain and so that is

that is an innovation in of itself right just the ability to send money or send assets and swap assets so let's say dexes stable coins other than that I'm just kind of like me I don't know but what Sky's doing is to see these numbers but when will they get their branding in order I saw in our community that many people were very confused about the die as s maker Sky would they spend $50 million on that yeah that was insane and even like if you go to their website it's the explanation of what sky is is terrible that sentence I just gave him like Risk the best risk adjusted yield you can find in the world while maintaining custody that should be their main freaking headline everywhere because

anyone can understand that trafi people crypto people if you go on their website it's like we're the decentralized blah blah blah and die and usds are the like representation of our decentralized ecos I'm like what the heck are you guys talking about dude who are you even speaking too anyway um don't get me started on that kind of stuff either way decentralized governance thing um that they don't get this right or what happens there Martin yeah the governance right now doesn't really work because they are just two four like really big delegates and they pretty much outvote like everyone else and they are kind of under the runes Vision you know so if there is a proposal and runes want them to vote Yes they'll just go and vote Yes

so it's I don't hate that at all and that's true of every protocol that has decentralized governance like we're sitting here maker gets all the heat for this but arbitrum is the same optimism is the same they're all like that you also want the Visionary to be able to execute on the things they want you know what I mean like I want Elon to have full control over Tesla at all times I don't want a vote a community vote whatsoever ever that's the dumbest thing ever to run a company it's the last thing I'd ever want in a company I'm investing in so like I don't hate that at all I know people are up in arms and like that sucks but like if you want a business to do well you need a Visionary someone who just doesn't sleep at night all they do is think about it they wake

up the next morning they're like we got to do this and then everyone goes to sleep and he stays up again goes okay now we got to do this and you know what I mean that that's how that's how you move good businesses along so like I don't know I don't I don't mind that stff but you need to listen the feedback and like talk to your community and like none of those delegates are ever uh communicating on Discord or anywhere there's just bunch of people on Discord asking questions and if there's good day you might be Laing ruin an answer but otherwise you are in Lost and you don't know what's going on what about the Surplus like what are the funds using for the Surplus why not the the uh Surplus already funded with 120 mil so the BuyBacks will start again like there

are so many the questions that people have and they don't get the answers because it's all just questions Tesla and I can't just sit there and ask Elon to answer my questions every day and I don't want him to do that I would much rather him just focus on building a business instead of answering my questions why do you think Martin that you deserve your questions answered like tell me though how does that make any sense that you think that you should go and get all the answers you want from some founder of a company you shouldn't right like how much maker do you own not enough that it matters so like why that's what I don't get about crypto is crypto's like I just want answers I want you to do what I said and it's like [ __ ] all you guys just let these guys cook

you know that's the spirit of ethereum [ __ ] the spirit [ __ ] spirit I don't think that matters just go and build that's the only thing that matters in crypto go ship something and right now as I said I'm not bullsh anything in crypto cuz no one ships everyone just cries in the space and that's [ __ ] to me it's like I just want to go the people that actually don't feed into Twitter and feed into these Community [ __ ] like just go build something and that's where I want to put my money do you know what I mean and run is doing that and I think everyone just gets so upset like I don't get it like you are just betting on one person who is not listening to feedback and he is just like doing his own thing Steve Jobs

hated feedback he's built the best company entire world insan he would take feedback and he would just burn it and he would go and go you guys don't know what you need I know what you need and he would build it and it was the he built the best products in the world what the [ __ ] do we need feedback for sing I'm getting mad yeah I understand feedback can be useful I do agree with that but I don't and if there is more inputs which are like considered their inputs and then like it reflects in the product and stuff it might be pretty useful versus versus just ignoring everyone else I like you're the Angry Bear today I I didn't expect this we you Kyle's

usually the bull in the room today he's he's bear angry how's your how's your bags right now man are you okay bags are great I'm fine I I'm uh I'm just bullish on some things I just you know what I hate you know what makes me really mad is every time price goes down crypto Twitter just loses their mind and right now now what crypto Twitter is doing is everyone is so horny for good headline news and it's honestly disgusting to see what's going on on Twitter right now it's like you know we have um David saaks come on and talk about this crypto stockpile or they came on last week and they talked about the like what they're going to do for crypto and everyone was whining and crying because he didn't like buy1 billion do in Bitcoin and I was like we just had the US government

talk about how they're going to do all these things for stable coins and for crypto and whatever and everyone's so mad because he didn't mention X token and they didn't buy X token it's just like they shouldn't buy most tokens because most tokens are trash do you know what I mean like we got to go build things and I just think this industry is just sitting here everyone's just waiting twilling their thumbs going when is someone going to launch an ETF for my token and when is someone going to talk about it in the US government and buy and put it in the stockpile and it's like that's it that's all everyone cares about on crypto Twitter and to me it's just annoying you know it's like it's but it's crypto Twitter it's this industry it's a group of marketers that get paid in tokens of course they want

the backs to go up right yeah yeah true true um so anyway it's just I I'm just I continue to focus in on the things that are are actually being built that are good which is to me is I mean stable coins and sky is really good right now there's one more thing aren't you excited about trading though like I'm so excited about about any any product that is involved in trading yeah I'm excited about stable coins don't get me wrong that's that is going to be compounding growth but like right now right like you look at the dexes you look at the perk platforms I know we're going to talk about hype like those are getting Jupiter right like Aerodrome all of those get me so excited right now not the ability to move assets freely for

basically nothing is super exciting so payments trading assets that are both Crypt native and non- Crypton native yes I mean that's kind of what I was talking about at the beginning of just dexes or coinbase Robin Hood facilitating trades of any asset in the world that can happen freely like I think that's super exciting for sure yeah okay let's talk hype we got to do one more here and uh we got to get to it because we're running we're running lower on time hype has obviously had a lot of hype lately um Adrian's been doing a bit of research I think wanted to ask some questions around it so why don't you let us know what's going on on on hype these days Adrian sure yeah can you share my screen yep yeah with uh hyper liquid maybe if you're bullish on volume then uh or if you're into trading hype might

be something for you um maybe one of the best uh apps uh basically of this cycle and it has a few of very bullish catalysts coming up on the one side uh it's expanding the whole spot Market at the moment you can just trade native um assets on the layer one which are very limited but soon you will be able to trade something like a rep Bitcoin for example or a coinbase Bitcoin and this could of course add a lot of volume um on the other side we have the introduction of the hyper evm which makes basically liquid the layer one they have running right now evm compatible with an additional evm or virtual machine that gets added and both

of them are kind of working simultaneously so a lot of uh additional assets coming to the whole uh thing and being able to be traded and we also have the uh assistance fund what they are doing is they are buying a lot of hyper liquid the token itself they just bought about 14 million of it uh which is roughly 4.3% of the supply um which is about $360 million us so here you see a buback mechanism that really works and that gets a substantial percentage of the whole Supply because with many projects we just see this uh 0.1% buyback and burn mechanism maybe but it doesn't change anything for the

price but here we have uh a lot bigger numbers basically and what we are seeing I mean hyper liquid um airdrop was in November 2024 basically it was you up only till December 22 and then it is ranging right now and this ranging is actually quite good I would say because if you compare it to most of the other old coins it's a huge difference I mean we are down about 20% from the highs most other altcoins are down 50 60 70% and we were already at a fully diluted valuation of 35 billion US Dollars which is quite a lot but if you compare it to other quite successful

layer one blockchains there might be still some potential if we compare it for example to Solana U maybe a 3X is on the table I know in the hyper liquid Community many people like to talk about the $100 per hype but that might be a little bit too bullish of course but the numbers don't lie uh if we uh check the uh spot uh order book here the spot volume on the weekly um for the last week we had about 91 million dollars which is not a lot actually spot is not perfect but it can get a lot uh better because of the um the Catalyst that the spot Market gets expanded the per trading volume is uh completely uh

different point here we are at 33 billion US dollars for one week and this is just insane and if we take a consideration like uh we have it with other big centralized exchanges like binance about uh 30% of the spot volume 30% of the per volume gets traded by spot for hyper liquid we could have very different numbers here 30% about 10 billion that would be a 10x from the current spot volume and therefore a lot more Revenue through fees of course do you know what the per volume is on

centralized exchanges like I'm just curious how that compares that what is it 33 billion last we can compare it um I have this chart here for the last seven days it's also on the weekly hyper liquid already did about 15% uh compared to binance um if we have uh 30 billion um times ooh uh might be about 150 billion for binance yeah and hype does already 15% of that so for an A solution that is still more expensive because the funding rates are

higher on hyper liquid uh this is quite the achievement and I myself I I started farming it kind of then I started using it I tried other per dexes but I always come back to hyper liquid because you you kind of get used to it and if you get an airdrop if you make a community quite happy you have the people that come always back so airdrops can work actually I know there are some people that really got huge airdrops and they are uh yeah the biggest uh people shouting on Twitter right now for hyper liquid they they did a good job similar to Tower to Benso for example where community members became the biggest Advocates basically for such a project

and and therefore it's interesting I mean with about 100K orders per second we have a highly functional blockchain there's projects in the defi space Landing AI agents starting and all of this will basically uh get enhanced by the start of the hyper evm so uh it's definitely something to look at do they still have incentives like if is this incentivized trading or has that gone away we have an a second air drop I guess okay so these numbers are nice but they're also likely people just farming the next airdrop is that safe to say I don't think so I don't think so only

because the they they proved out the first airdrop that they they still maintained a strong level and their product is legitimately better it is a better product so it I don't think and people are going to stop were people going to stop trading no so so I think yes there is incentives but I I don't worry too much about that in this case how many users do they have do we have that number I can't find it on defama just trying to look it up they have a a website for all their stats there should be users as well Martin have you um have you used hyper liquid yet no but like I tend to be a little skeptical about perps because there was if you remember

dydx everyone was trading on dydx before then there was uh GMX on arbitrum everyone was trading there now there is hyper liquid and so you know like what's what's your like mode what's your defensible like if if your main differentiation is like the best ux like okay so then someone will just do the same ux and like what what why should the users stick with you and just do not go anywhere else hyper liquid is interesting because it kind of reminds me binance they basically just launch some centralized exchange or like just forget the centralized because well we

can say they are also centralized because they have just three vators but anyways like they just bring something that's clearly working people love to use centralized exchanges because it's just much faster and everything and they they do they did the same thing and they just launch a token associated with it so like we were talking about iOS before so what if this is the way like bringing you know like traditional web to applications that are tested and they are favored among people and then just bring token and then later on on it on the road map you start to kind of okay now we have users we have liquidity so

let's grow from here now we can start to building layer one because we have liquidity we have users so why not to attract another deps to build on top of us right and yeah just grow from there but at some point they'll also start to face the limitations because now user experience is awesome and the orders are quickly filled because it's it's very easy if you have only three notes based in collocated in Tokyo which needs to communicate each other it or if you have notes you know Tokyo Singapore New York it it's it's very different thing so

like yes now they are starting to kind of be more decentralized but at which costs like is it going to bring and worsen the user experience which was the main key product differentiator that's that's the question but the business is not the same as binance I understand it is a centralized blockchain right now but it's still fully on chain which means they have orders of magnitude less employees and Tech to handle than something like binance does so it's not just binance with the token it it is a different like primitive in itself you know um and so like the business is is probably way more profitable let's say

I'm not sure how how the revenues are set up yet but like business could be let's say way more profitable because it doesn't need as many as employees that's how binance Works uh for example you have less restrictions that's definitely an advantage I recently tried to try uh trade per on binance but I wasn't allowed to because it's restricted in my area um you certainly also have the advantage of the layer one that's uh not every per de has that and um if you have your favorite exchange do you change it every time you go for a trade so could that also not be a mold in the in the long term be honest it took me a while to switch from like Unis swap over to cow swap even though it's way freaking

better uh but now that I'm at cow swap like I'm I'm definitely not going back but it did take me a while just branding reasons because I've done it for so long but I that hasn't really been true for per as Martin said we did go from dydx to GMX to hype and it's the same people that are just moving from one to one I think what will make people move is someone creates a copycat of hyper liquid and they offer incentives and now everyone's going to move over and do it over there you know but you still don't have the liquidity if more Bitcoin onchain trading volume comes to hyper liquid you don't have the liquidity everywhere and Bitcoin onchain trading right now it sucks yeah yeah yeah true yeah no I do think hype is they're doing a lot of things right and it is a I

don't want to say untapped Market but like it is a like like you said GMX DDX they haven't really become anything special and so like there was room for someone to come in onchain and be the binance of onchain right and obviously that's a very lucrative market so if hype can capture that then that's going to be massive I don't do per so I'm not going to be a user unfortunately we bull I guess bearish at it still deserves like we should probably write P about hqu I want to learn more about them $25 billion Mar cap what do you guys think is that cheap not cheap but it's not going down unfortunately yeah right it never has

which is odd but it's good I mean look at that chart versus the bar chain chart the difference is just insane and the people could really profit from it and you could get into it early bar chain is down only unfortunately so you see the difference from a VC chain uh to a um also airdrop chain but it it started with a reasonable valuation at least all right guys well I think let's wrap it up there unless anyone else has any final final thoughts or something they need to bring up that we didn't get to too yeah have you guys thought that I shared the tweet that meta is uh letting off like 5% of their employees not in us though it's it's like outside of the US but yet like

is it like becoming because of those are not effective enough and in AI times you need to be really effective um what do you think I think that trend's going to continue for sure I mean we're we are looking at how can we use AI not necessary to to have a an an product but to systemize and make everything inside of our companies more efficient now it doesn't mean we'll fire anyone on our team it just means we won't need to hire anyone new hopefully if we can get it to work in the way that we want or we'll need to hire a lot less people uh except for AI Engineers to help build us what we're trying to build um and I would imagine like the level that we're doing it is very small versus like meta and others and so I think we're at a place already where AI forget

products but like can just make systems and things work inside of a company especially big companies so much more efficient that you don't need a lot of people and so I think that Trend probably continues I think we're going to see more of that for sure but as normal when new technology comes you need to hire new people to build this Ai and to create those systems and to do other things and like new things will be capable because of AI and so like there'll just be new jobs but we'll have a transitionary period although what's a little bit weird in the US is like you're combin finding this this idea of meta starting to let go of people you said that wasn't in the US though but with how many government uh employees are losing their jobs right now like I think 60,000 of them quit and got the

severance that Elon offered for Trump whoever it was and then I know elon's just been deleting departments like it's nobody's business so there's going to be hundreds of thousands maybe millions of government employees that are going to lose their jobs uh and then maybe you combine that with people losing jobs because of AI it's going to be a weird this is why like the normal macro numbers that you look at of like unemployment and stuff I just don't know how relevant it is because it's it's just the world is is changing so freaking fast that like do these numbers matter anymore like how relevant is it I don't know like obviously people not having jobs matters because they can't buy things but I don't know it's um things are changing quick that's for sure yeah and like central banks now they they primarily look on unemployment

rate and inflation like how is this going to change in like three years five years what about the inflation because all these deflationary pressures and then you have the chop Market which is going to be disrupted in a significant way so like how how are like what they are going to track and how central banks are going to behave in that environment that's they need to change that the good thing is I yeah they need to change that for sure I like I don't think we're seeing any big inflation like we're going to inflation is going to probably creep up a little bit maybe at the end of the year as we start to to print some money and and the business cycle picks up like when ISM goes above 50 like we talked about the beginning of the show that means a bunch of people are buying

things we're producing more we're buying more and like usually have bits of inflation but it's not it's not like everyone thinks of the inflation that we had in 2021 where we went to like what was it like 10% in the US or whatever like that's not going to happen we'll fluctuate from I think we're at three right now we'll go up to like 3.4 or whatever you know maybe we'll hit four but ultimately I think we're just moving forward it's it's just downward pressure on inflation uh because of things like this so we're going into pretty crazy times which you just wrote a great Pro report on that by the way if you guys um Pro members go read it it's from Saturday if you're not pro go check it out he just kind of gave his thoughts on how AI is all unfolding um it was like a

more meta conversation around Ai and it was um it was quite interesting to understand what's going on in that world but things are going to change big time all right guys let's wrap it up there that was a good session thanks everyone for joining audience thanks for listening uh it's always fun now to to record this rather than have it internally with just a few of us so uh Good Times S I got so angry about halfway I love I love it I love it yeah he's bringing bringing strong energy that's for sure I go hit everybody listening in uh let us know uh how how you feel about this show and if you like the comments if you like Kyle being an angry bear do you guys want to see more of Kyle the angry bear

or should should Kyle come back I think we're at the bottom it's not bearish you said you hate everything except for stable coins oh I love it thanks for listening in everybody have a wicked awesome day as always if you liked today's episode please hit subscribe and make sure you follow us so you don't miss out on the next one there's also a link in the description to our free 5 minute daily newsletter where we simplify crypto for you well make you laugh and if you're willing to step up your crypto investing game we're going to also leave a link for milk Road Pro you get access to our portfolio where you can see exactly what we are buying this is your

number one resource to help you invest successfully in crypto one final note this show is for educational purposes only and nothing we say is financial advice investing in crypto or any asset is risky and you should never invest more than you can afford to lose thanks so much for listening in my friends have a wicked awesome day