Can Elastic Chain Solve Crypto's Biggest Problem? With Alex Gluchowski

Transcript

I think you're winning because um optimistic rups all have ZK in their road map now ZK is the end game and so putting these things together what is the end game for the elastic chain verifiability is key if it's not verifiable it's not really blockchain you're competing with BOS that's a huge breakthrough space welcome back to the rollup your home for technical talks and open conversations that shape the modular future sit back relax and enjoy this episode after a quick word from some of our awesome partners who make this show possible safe is moving the world GDP onchain with the introduction of safet safe is taking this to the next step very soon check out net. safe. Global to learn more about how safe is moving the

world's GDP on chain welcome in the end game is ZK ZK is the end game that is our favorite [ __ ] posting on Twitter it's like every single week now it's just the end game is ZK ZK is the end game just because it's true you can repeat it over and over well I think I mean it's been over a year since the last time we chatted I think it was even prior to ZK sync uh era going live the actual L2 um have have you been man what's what what have you been most focused on uh it's been an exciting time and especially now like the last week has been absolute absolutely incredible uh wait why is that sir uh you know like every everyone is feeling the the energy is like we're so back and uh so

uh and uh beyond that like everyone is feeling optimistic that we finally will be able to go beyond the like we like the the we finally have the mro backwind to actually go after the goals of crypto and and make a dent in the world and uh this gives everyone a lot of confidence and optimism yeah I mean it feels like ethereum's narrative has shifted in like five days more than like the last eight months of like infighting over l2s being parasitic or interrup or all these things it's like oh couple green candles and it's like eth is bullish again right so I think those to be clear I think those things are still there but now they're in the background and now like there's a lot more optimism and confidence that we can solve those

problems and and just not a lot not a lot of uh violence towards one another but more like like it's more playful and and uh fun conversations in order to solve those same problems and ultimately get to to the end game of ZK that we're all going but now it's just we're have fun on our way there uh yeah we like we're going for the end game of crypto which ZK uh is playing uh critical role in but ultimately the the role of crypto is to bring more freedom more progress and more prosperity in the world and this is what what drives me personally what what caused uh me to to to go and start the casn as a project and this is what our community is is Rel around so yeah happy to dive into yeah I mean I

mean that was one of the things that like personally inspired me and also was one of the big biggest takeaways from our first conversation was I think we probably spent like 20 or 30 minutes just going over like your ethos and Roots which I I like to think are like really rooted in the crypto Punk but also just like Pure Freedom prosperity and just kind of what what those are so you know we have a lot more Community now I think it it would be a nice refresher to for them to understand your roots and your ethos and why you so strongly believe ZK is a way forward for for the space and for the entire world uh oh sure so like it starts with the role of crypto and what uh with you know like uh my uh my my personal background is I was born in Ukraine went through

hyperinflation through the collapse of Institutions and then uh mov to the west and saw how things can be different but then also saw how the Western Society is kind of like losing track and Encompass over time uh because you uh see very like you understand very viscerally going through this experience that the rules of the game we're playing as a society are going to determine the outcome you look at West Germany East Germany North Korea South Korea and it's like day and night literally if you look from from a satellite in the night uh and the uh the key component that differentiates the the societies is more freedom the degree of Freedom uh are you allowed to innovate are you allowed to be in the entrepreneur and solve

problems or are you going to be uh stuck in swamps of bureaucracy and uh Power struggles and like you cannot really change anything because the groups of interests have their firm hands uh uh on on on on control of things and uh markets are uh uh the uh the best mechanism we have as Humanity to coordinate and to run this ever uh never ending experiment uh or like thousands of experiments of like what really works you know like it's knowledge building um exercise what do people need how what's the best way to solve it and uh like what what you know like who who has the best abilities and and best way to organize other people to

really around those goals and deliver the this value and um crypto is a very potent technological tool we have to promote free markets to enable freedom to lower the barriers of entry for newcomers and to to just like give people more power to uh participate in markets and to bring like to coordinate better with with each other you know like erasing borders erasing uh Stupid regulations which were historical uh uh outdates for a long time and and just like jumping straight into this Global um free economy of uh of the internet because the crypto is itself basically

the continuation of the evolution of the internet what internet has done to information and we see it very like we we've seen it very vividly with the recent ele election uh uh thing that internet has democratized access to information everyone is now a journalist everyone is um having a voice and and and like has freedom to to decide who you listen to you're not bound only to Elites and and the central you know big uh uh uh political figures and and and their controlled networks uh crypto is going to do the same for the world of value democratizing access to Value democratizing access to financial services but going beyond that uh democratizing identity what what uh cork

ID for example is doing in Argentina onik s uh taking it from governments and putting back in the hands of people and so the uh like what what like if you if you look at it like what crypto is fundamentally doing is uh um it's automation of trust over Millennia we we came from the Society of hunters and gatherers where like you have to know people you have your Dumar number of the people you can physically personally know and you have to trust them and you coordinate this trust on the very small uh tribal scale to uh like Civilization level coordination which was bound on trust and the providers of trust were institutions and

organizations religion uh Power structures um uh commercial authorities you know like we have now Banks governments uh churches all all of that now uh the trust is uh it has a cost and like we we've seen that like it it's it's quite expensive because if you make a mistake trust the wrong uh uh organization Authority or whatever they can abuse their power and take it in the very wrong direction like we've we've seen it very very strongly in the in the especially in the recent month what crypto is doing is it it's automating trust like if you like instead of trusting some you know like someone some brand of trust you replace it with math just like you can replace now uh the

post service which is a trust establishing function with electronic email with entend encryption where you can know for sure for a fact that you are communicating with the person you want to talk to uh because they have a device on them with cryptographic keys securing this an communication right this is powerful like they like every Automation in history has always brought down the costs uh and increased efficiency of the function it it's like automating by orders of orders and Orders of magnitude and we see this this with trust and now we have some of these functions and there is an estimate uh that 35% of all jobs in the United States are in TR establishing functions

from sales but also down to notaries and lawyers and uh um like a lot of various things and uh you take and and like what is money if not the trust establishing function in the economy right if you take some of that and move it to uh an automated thing uh you create a lot of value because you eliminate intermediaries you cut unnecessary cost you make things better now like you know because like it's it's in like writing paper contracts and negotiating them is very inefficient everyone who's gone through legal struggle like understands this like who has done has closed a a funding round or like any any legal contract whatever like it's complicated smart contracts are open permissionless

composable you can just enter them at one click and you can expand them and then make them like in a complex structure so like all of that is like the uh um uh automation of trust now to automate trust at a mass scale you need Primitives that uh allow you to do this the only primitive we have to actually scale trust automation like truly at the core level is zero knowledge proofs like specifically like Su zero knowledge proof snarks because zero knowledge proofs are uh a bit of a misnomer because they like hint at some hidden information like privacy confiscation confidentiality uh we're using the uh

computational compression this like tools for computational integrity which allow us to verify like insanely large functions in under one second on any mobile phone right which is essentially what the the email did to the post office correct correct like now you have it on like you have a post office in your pocket yeah uh so your knowledge proofs are enabling what the uh TLS https has enabled for the internet this endtoend protection of trust not appli to only communication as TLS and and SSL and uh https but now in relation to computation uh and by proxy to the

exchange of value and coordination of value because blockchains are essentially are building this like Global World computer ethereum started its thesis as a World computer for a reason because it's this Global computable state with Crypton native assets with assets that are reflections of real world asset you know stable coins are rwa and so on uh and it's very very important to protect this hardness the this reliability on the commitments that people are making on on these networks uh the promises they make and and commitment to them and uh you can do it with math but it's at scale you can do it only with uh with this gate it's a

frankly a better system Point Blank I mean in all in all respects absolutely I you have the current system that like you said take 35% of all the jobs in the US and and to to work on trust and if you take and and there was a there was an article I think it was called commoditize your compliment and it it basically was a economic business philosophy to uh show that if you could do something much easier there is going to be value that you can uh you can use and if you can do that then your thing that you created that does that better is more valuable yes um and so if you equate that to this trust automation that you have uh on chain you know roughly that's 35% of American GDP is a big number and it's actually even more

than that as you start to work in more efficiencies and more automations with better technology and and it's more trust it's actually more uh trust minimizing uh because it's verifiable through this math verifiability is key if it's not verifiable it's not really blockchain you're competing with postgress like go and build a like take a database and put it on the cloud like blockchains are verifiable computational like veriable computers like well I think you're winning because um optimistic rups all have ZK in their road map now two years ago they wouldn't admit it they do they do although uh the designs that we see the currently

pursuing the leading optimist cup networks are not very ZK friendly and I'm I'm honestly surprised why they they went down this route but uh they like they kind of creating themselves a bit of a hurdle to to adoption instead of kind of like converging faster um but we will do the drop from our side like we will just um just go straight there very we have a panel with Ed Felton tomorrow so uh I'll make it spicy let's talk about how you apply this kind of broader philosophy to your work today so we we started with ZK ZK sync era and light was the initial implementation and now we're kind of you guys are the entire ZK sync team and and yourself are building out these ZK stack chains and really

trying to build this interoperability layer on top of it the elastic chain I'd love to understand kind of like the story of this implementation over time and kind of really what the elastic chain story is from your perspective as to why you're kind of dedicating your next few years of your life's work to this specific problem uh that's a great question going back to what I said the blockchains are uh a continuation of the internet so like when when you want to build the next generation of Technology you kind of you have to think from first principles and you probably want to think with the end goal in mind you want to Envision the perfect world like this ultimate Vision like if we remove all the constraints how does this world look like and then gradually reverse engineer

from there and say okay the these are the problems we need to solve and maybe some of them are not solvable yet we'll come back to them later but like this is the path forward if we take the uh if we look at blockchain systems as um like verifiable internet verifiable internet of of of value then it's obvious that the uh uh like certain certain facts become obvious number one there will be many blockchains it's like you you cannot solve all of the you cannot put all of the world's value on a single blockchain just like you don't put all of the world's data on a single server or even on a single data center for various reasons for like there are iner technological reasons why you cannot do

uh you know all all the millions millions of transactions per second that that the world generates touching some like when one way or another some value uh but beyond technological reasons there are also political and uh business reasons and and like different communities will want to have their own um custom uh things that that they need to like you know different flows there is no one siiz fitall solution there will be many chains um those chains will have to be heterogeneous like of different nature of different uh with different properties and the most important problem you need to solve is how you connect them and this is what the the discussion we're having in

ethereum ecosystem about like unifying ethereum fragmentation of ux fragmentation of liquidity how do we solve how do we connect their all UPS together now uh the uh like the this perfect end vision of how you connect them together is something like this you have this networks you have accounts users have accounts on all of them or like on all of them have some users with some accounts have some smart contracts and anyone any user of any network should be able to connect to any other user any other network just like you do it on the internet when you send an email you don't have to think like I I need to change Networks from Yahoo it does seem silly it does seem silly like

bridging seems silly so like you can imagine that you have like Universal address of anything just like we have URLs uh on the internet and you just say like I I am here here's my account I connect to this thing and I affect some actions on on this one thing right this is the ideal world and then in this world like all the the domains The Individual Services will be controlled by different people like just like or communities or organizations like Gmail is controlled by Google but you might run your own domain Service uh you know like at the rollup so you have like and they all up and you're sending it to uh Alex at AT metal apps or whatever um and uh what you want is guarantee that all

of these interactions cannot be arbitrarily gamed that like all of this network is basically having the uniform security model property that like you know that there is some smart contract over there you can verify it you check okay it's immutable can be easily changed here are the rules of the smart contract if I interact with it from my network and send some of my tokens you know you launch your own mem coin you want to send this mem coin to some like amm on this other Network and and do some swaps right uh it all should be interoperable and it all should be seamless and verifiable down to the point where the entire construct like all all of this internet can be verified on your mobile phone and when when you open your um

wallet or like your account whatever controls your access to this global blockchain system um you check that the state is is correct like all of the blocks from Genesis like basically like all the interactions were correct and you check that your data was correct and and you control the privacy of your data right so that's the ideal Vision now if if if that's the ideal Vision we can build that from scratch but it's very hard to build it from uh the point of uh the uh existing Legacy systems it's very hard to connect the existing systems together if they were not designed initially for this connectivity this is where we're going

to have a little bit of a struggle and we looked at this problem and we realized um maybe the uh the right approach to it from U uh from my perspective would be like to try to design a like an optimal system this full stack rollup framework rollup building framework which can be plugged into this network which can expand indefinitely which is fully verifiable where you don't you trust math and not validators for security of the intern network you trust math and not uh market makers for interoperability for bridging and you

make it like really seamless like you you get to this point where you don't have to maintain different accounts on all you like you don't have you don't need to do account abstraction or like sorry chain abstraction where you have like one wallet which has like multiple accounts on all the different chains and orchestrates them that should not be necessary you should have one account on any network you choose and you interact with any any of the others and so like this is what we're building with the elastic chain we we took the ZK stack which which is the framework the Z the first zkm framework which is powering which was powering only Z era chain we open sourced it it's fully permissionless under MIT uh Apache license and we uh we we started building

the interrup framework uh that can expand indefinitely just like internet meaning you are only bounded by the amount of available Hardware but we have a lot of servers a lot of gpus a lot of CPUs in the world you just keep adding those servers and you keep keep you can keep adding chains each of the chain must be very high performance high security and uh high ux like you want you we're aiming at web 3 sorry web 2 level of user experience the casing has native account abstraction y it has uh uh gasless transactions it has like smart contract wallets like we we have uh uh RP I don't remember the the number with like uh face ad Touch ID like uh

secure Enclave uh uh authentication all of that highly scalable evm compatible and soon evm equivalent and uh we're going to give it to builders who can plug it in in this framework we're going to experiment going this way focusing on maximum sovereignty of or or autonomy of the builders so they can actually customize their chains they can make their own choices they can decide their own data availability Frameworks have their own sequencers de centralized decentralized highly scalable more resilient robust whatever like all all of technological like MV uh strategies uh but keep it like seamlessly interoperable with very low latency now

other uh rollup clusters like super chain AG whatever uh will be experimenting with their own Solutions and then we will see what's winning and then we hopefully can can embrace it and adopt more or like we can then figure out like how to interoperate uh but we're going to be making different tradeoffs and they will have very very fargoing consequences uh for like basically in in the next year and I think the we will see like a very broad um Divergence of capabilities po have different chains making those those trads and on a typical blockchain you have this idea of redundancy and you have this decentralized node landscape

where you're re-executing all of the logic across all of the nodes and you're gossiping and then re-executing and and it adds a lot of redundancy now ZK things are a bit different and so when you start adding new ZK nodes across geogra geographical regions you start adding new chains into the elastic chain how does this this architecture impact performance and then also user experience decentralization some of the other sovereignty how how does a ZK architecture impact some of some of these uh parameters Redstone modular oracles are available on 50 plus chains trusted by over 100 clients and over 6

billion in total value secured visit redstone. Finance to find out more welcome aboard on our journey into the singularity this is the endgame road map for fra and fraxel the new L2 out of the frax ecosystem that is totally based on fractal scaling fractal the modular L2 blockchain built by fra with modular and fractal scaling in mind fractal scaling is based on the mandal BR set of fractal images and it explains how l2s become l3s and the entire app chain life cycle goes through its Evolution the frax

ecosystem is made of some of the top builders in the space and has stemmed from its OG days of the frax stable coin it is now in the LST space the LRT space and this fraxel L2 joins the existing Suite of fra products including fra Swap and fra lend you can see FR fairy the bridge to go from any chain arbitrum optimism or main net into the frax main net Bridge your tokens and bring your FRA assets into the fraxel ecosystem join today to get the best out of fraxel you are still early join today take part

in our Expedition into the singularity uh so let's let's consider them one by one let's start with performance uh ZK or like basically let's start with capacity what I'm describing has perfect infinite capacity on on the number of verifiable chains and verifiable transactions that you can incorporate each of the individual chains will have some capacitive limit will bottlenecked by its data availability uh Choice by its uh execution capacity like is it a centralized sequential sequencer is it a paralyzed sequencer or is it a like a decentralized sequencer with like

multiple validators um but together cumulatively the total capacity of this network is infinitely expens extendable because you're the uh proof composition recursive proof composition is like you can just like build higher and higher mer mirle like non meral tree like a composition tree uh verify them recursively and got to get to the single proof which you then put on ethereum as the ultimate settlement layer so the capacity is infinite uh throughput is infinite latency is constant because you like all all of these chains do their proof ZK proof generation in parallel and if they can have access to like a very large uh array of Hardware both

CPUs and gpus and and in the future vpus like verifiable processor units like basically gpus for cryptography they can do it like at a fixed CA at a fixed time irrespective of the the size of this network right like let's say it's going to be like initially maybe a few minutes and then going down to like 15 seconds and then uh eventually coming to real time I'm I'm I'm certain that we'll get on the observable Horizon of several years to real time proving so we have capacity we have latency um uh which like which is like when people say speed in blockchain it does not really mean anything you you really have through put at latency uh now and and this is like latency of of verification lat Le it to the point

where you can make a commitment and then propagate it down and have some finality guarantees uh but of course your pre-confirmation your sequencer can give you a pre-confirmation with some economic guarantees so like for great user experience you're probably going to have one second confirmations of all all all of these chains uh and if you're paying for coffee that's probably fine but if you're expecting $1 million payment you probably want to wait for the proof and then even for settlement on ethereum uh now uh how it affects uh so those are all elements of performance right and then maybe there's less quantitative more qualitative or or you know philosophical design choices in terms of sovereignty decentralization so sovereignty is like let's start with sovereignty like something like the

elastic chain gives you the ultimate sovereignty compared to something like what super chain is building today right why because in in in in in a model like super chain you opt in into a shared security model like you you like you have to have like let's not call it shared sequencers but trusted sequencers you have to give up your sovereignty on sequencing and join the network of a few sequencers that everyone trusts yeah because none of them can uh be malicious if if if one of the sequencers is malicious they're going to disrupt operations for the entire thing but they could just roll those back that's like the whole centralized sequencer advantages they they can but you cannot

like allow anyone to permissionless join because you going to have malicious actors joining and just disrupting the operation of the entire thing yeah in the elastic chain design the chains are having autonomy from the start they can decide how they do sequencing and they can go like back to your question about the degree of redundancy they can go for more or less redundancy and they have this choice you don't have this choice is when you build a layer one with a layer one if you're willing to if you want to compete with ethereum Bitcoin or like maintain like a at least some semblance of a comparable security guarantees you need a very broad set of uh validators y for these reasons with a

zk2 you don't really need that necessarily for your security you can go with a centralized sequencer and while the centralized sequencer will have a lot of power and will have the ability to sensor transactions in the normal operation mode of the network they you can you can build it in a way that they cannot censor you to exit the network okay right so like they they can like disrupt the worst thing they can do is they can disrupt the operation they can stop processing blocks then you will enter the emergency recovery mode and mass exit mode and all the people will just exit to a different L2 using layer one as a forcing mechanism like we call it priority Q right you cannot have it

without zero knowledge proofs or like you you like with optimistic rollups you're you're down to like this uh very long um weight periods and and and also risks that that that involve them uh so you you you can kind of like have an optimistic view of the liveness of this of the systems because like you can't you like if you have a centralized you can disrupt liveness that's going to cause you a lot of damage as in as as an operator so it's very unlikely you're going to do it but worst case you can recover with optimistic craw UPS the worst case is like you're going to lose everything so it's it's a very different worst case and then the economic side to join the super chain in this example because I'd like to kind of get on to

the point of how you're viewing the competitive and also collabora with nature as well there's an economic uh commitment that you have to make if sequence Ser Revenue to uh the super chain if if you hit a certain amount then then there's a certain threshold that you you hit like 15% or something and then if not there's like a there's a separate kind of Revenue category that you have to give based on gas fees what is the economic commitment that Builders have to make to join the elastic chain is there any this is up to the eik nation the eik sync uh decentralized uh governance now to decide like they can make a proposal I think that all rollup clusters will eventually settle on a kind of a similar model okay which can be automatically and programmatically enforced I don't think that uh 15% is a

is a fair uh fair fair what is fair uh something like less than 15 like I mean like it should be like 10 or less because that that's kind of like and and maybe there's Dynamic properties that we can Pro like you said programmability like into these things where if you're producing more for the for the uh the elastic chain or you know for the super chain you can have these different program programmatic types of properties where you know you're bringing more to the table like maybe you have to give up a little bit less and you can kind of have these different properties where you b b on like what what the network effects that you bring to exactly yeah uh I I agree and and it goes beyond that because we're not just building Technologies we're building networks with we governed with we in communities

with uh tokenized uh uh like big tokenized treasuries that that can and should be used for ecosystem development for the things so like the there there must be a uh a process where like there is some redistribution like you're paying some fees to the network but you're getting a lot more from uh more than just technology more than just uh paybacks and like maybe redistribution is a is a wrong wrong way to look at it like more like growing the pie forever you want right okay so looking at the lens of outside of economic outside of um technology I mean those these are core parts to to the equation but looking at this from the lens of the ethereum ecosystem as a whole right like rather than looking at it as like you

know optimism versus arbitrum ZK sync versus polygon and scroll and kind of like this INF fighting that we've seen you know part of my thesis is like we get this like account abstracted chain abstracted shared sequencer we get these rollup clusters really working user a comes on whether it's the abstract chain or the treasure Dow or to ZK sync era or to op Manet or base it's still a win for ethereum and that user can then eventually be able to you know theoretically Bridge or just move assets as you said into the elastic chain and participate in that ecosystem as well and so I think we like we're getting there but like right now we're still in this like we have these like fums of rollup clusters we've got like like the super chain as you said agair elastic chain so like how should we as a

community be thinking about the relationship between these rollup clusters with regards of like competition as well as collaboration to kind of grow this broader ethereum pi and get to this world where like truly one new user into base is a win for ZK sync like how do we get to that world and like what's the what's the way that we should be thinking about it now uh as well uh some healthy competition is always uh good for for ecosystems we want to have competition of ideas we want to have competition of Technologies we want to be able to argue and not just be like oh let's all like just agree on everything and like we're like what's the point and of civilization uh so that that that that's a good part uh I think the uh uh this like heavy PVP Dynamics

we've seen in the recent month was caused by this bearish market centent and like a very small number of users that everyone is kind of trying to to compete in Zero Sum game environment uh the real uh mind shift of like the like the proper way to cooperate on this would be to go from here in all the different directions outside of the small group of Crypton native users that we uh we currently have and ask ourselves how we can bring more users to ethereum more users to crypto from outside like tap into the communities and uh uh web to use cases like uh uh web to user base that have not not yet been explored and

by doing this we should be thinking blue ocean for everyone like like it doesn't make sense to go for the exact same market like all of rollups just go like for like one one simple thing you know you want to explore different things so like what we're doing with the elastic chain is uh exactly that like we're we're going into different parts of the world uh we were cooperating with the uh uh with the cork project the government of buos Cirus to bring on the citizens of Buenos irus and now Argentina and like larg latam on crypto with um verifiable credentials and and expand from there to actually on board them and convert them into like real crypto users we're going into southeast Asia and

exploring the use cases here we're going into the uh web 2 Enterprise world we we're talking to Banks and uh institutions uh traditional financial institutions fintech institutions uh grabbing like offering them this the solutions and and the um Epoch the the political environment that we will have now for the next couple of years now with the new Administration in the US with the uh like really Pro crypto uh uh Senate and House and like us is the leading country in the world and like the driver of the world progress is incredible like we have a golden wind of of opportunity that we should absolutely all explore and look at how we're going

to grow this spy like we all going to make it if we have this abundance mindset golden bll we're all going to make it we're all going to make it but I I I actually think that what like ZK stack and alas CH is doing in particular for this is important and this has been like what I've been saying with quite a bit recently is like teams have got to go out there and get distribution because if if you know if abstract chainon can go out and tap into their pudgy Penguins brand and onboard hundreds and thousands of millions of new people directly to to crypto then like Z syn doesn't need to fighting with ag for the you know 10,000 yield Farmers that are here because as long as AG goes out and gets there figures out their distribution then everybody's kind of

bringing it all in right that's like that's the way that I think we're going to be shifting towards as like the number go up technology helps that right and you guys bring in Argentina someone else goes bring brings in Peru someone else goes and brings in Japan like and then everyone's on chain absolutely yes like this has been our philosophy now with the elastic chain like we're not going directly after the end users we are uh thinking of how can we support the chains the ZK chains or projects building ZK chains on the elastic chain to uh max out their potential and uh go and get those users in their respective communities what we have now is like abstract is going after consumer crypto and with the paju brand they know how to convert the normal mainstream audience

and uh bring them on chain uh Lance is going after the the social and creators and uh and the this like whole art community uh we have treasure do and exola going after the gaming communities and bringing like like making in Gaming Community is like a one uh which is relatively hard has been relatively skeptical for for crypto when you you mention crypto in the gaming World they kind of skeptical so like exola is uh uh basically the this tribe of of of gaming they they are powering I think like some I don't want to name numbers now be incorrect but like some insane percentage of the in gaming on ramps

they have a lot of trust in in that Community they're going to bring it uh on chain and treasure has a lot of trust with Crypton native uh game Builders and they're going to build uh their own communities over there uh we have uh real world infrastructure like Noel network is doing the verifiable uh media now there like with which you can check with know you can build create zer knowledge prove that this was actually created in a particular place and particular time and with onchain timestamp we have uh communities that who know their users like Crypton native users and kind of know how to to go from there with like zon um zero that's coming out like very soon right or there there's some there's something that's

coming out that's going to be out by the time this podcast is is done absolutely and and like let's not also forget the the exchanges uh who are actually going after like huge source of crypto users who are already like one La in crypto but have not yet done the the final step are the centralized exchange sh who are just trading and we can convert them them into that's a huge break through full space going like full on chain and this is what we see with uh Kronos for example and their cooperation with crypto.com like the second largest Exchange in the world 100 million uers uh uh they are now like going uh I think like I just saw that uh Kronos is one of

the top gainers in uh uh last week I saw your quote tweet of that and it was like a price that I was like we're definitely in the bull market Alex's quote tweeting like just pumps I love it like but like it just shows the interest it's like it's not it's not to to to like you know uh uh I mean crypto crypto has a large degree of speculation it's an important part of it but it kind of shows reflects the sentiment of the interest corre price go up has always been the best marketing absolutely that's why ethereum's entire narrative has shifted right literally the last week it's it's not so so so Alex take us through here I mean like you kind of put together all of these all all of the things that are happening on the elastic chain we talked at the beginning of this pod that you

know ZK is the endgame and so putting these things together what is the end game for the elastic chain uh the end game is the this like ever growing number of communities who are building Z chains into this like internet of value on ethereum uh interconnected uh where all users that on board on any of these uh communities can interact with everything else and this creates this massive Synergy effect where the the community of builders that support each other and and care for each other's success uh to grow the P for for all and grow the buy for ethereum in the first place because ultimately the Dicker is eth and the eth is our our money on on the system and and the the largest store

of value in ethereum's uh security like crypto security cryptoeconomic security Zone uh and uh is going to remain number one asset uh because it's native to to the systems uh and uh uh go from there and on board the world I can actually go like but but like yeah uh also tap into the uh the uh existing like traditional financial institutions and uh traditional web two companies who now I think have a green light to actually go all in on crypto stable coin regulations is is is are going to come and uh you know stripe acquiring a bridge uh going all in all of that is a massive sign that we finally have the shift that

we're we've been hoping for and like working towards for the last uh 10 years yeah I think we'll look back at this specific Devcon event as like uh the beginning of the next era of turning point of I mean not only just of the market but just of like the way that we're building in in the space so thanks thanks for joining us today it's been an absolute pleasure Alex and uh always appreciate your insights thank you enjoyed it a lot