The business case for big tech and brands to use web3

Transcript

what's up friends welcome to web3 academy a place for entrepreneurs creators and marketers to explore and learn how to use web 3 to transform business models and create thriving communities enjoy this next episode [Music] gmgm welcome to web3 academy it is the weekly do or spotlight where we highlight somebody doing things in the web3 world uh i am one of your co-hosts jay hamilton here with you kyle is here as always as well what's up kai what's up friends happy to be here looking forward to talking with uh with our guests today i'll let you know don't interrupt my uh my introduction give me a sec here

uh so today with us we have jason keith uh jason's co-founder of social fresh social fresh is the original social media conference and also a consultancy and they produce research as well jason's also a artist an ft artist a writer brand strategist and really an all things social and web 3 expert i know he's also part of the jump community which i'm in there with him as well um and uh they've got social fresh the conference is coming back this year in person which is very exciting uh i think that's in less than a month so jason thanks so much for giving us the time as you lead up to uh this big

conference which i know i was looking at some of the speakers you got lyft twitter square shopify audi just an incredible uh guest list and just just before you jump in here jason he also recently in his spare time i don't know how you have the time jason uh launched remint dao which we're really excited to chat about that as well really cool project um and uh i think i think i might have to join in on that one by the end of this i'm sure uh jason welcome to the show yeah thanks for having me kyle and jay excited to talk about all things weathering and social and uh just in general i don't know how i find time to do things easier easier but it's helpful in web3 when things are decentralized things can still happen when you're when you're off the clock

so there you go and and also there's there seems to be a uh more of an acceptance of working on multiple projects and i don't know if that's an acceptance makes it a good thing because then we're all just getting more busy but [Laughter] let's take on more why don't we um so jason start us off uh start us off with your your web3 uh origin story like how did you first get hooked what you know is there was there a moment did somebody tell you about it um did some did you read some article you know what was uh what was sort of the um the first step uh i guess before you even

went down the rabbit hole yeah i mean i've been light into crypto for you know the better part of a decade um really not heavy into the space um but you know i i get paid to let people know what's coming next so i research i read um talk to smart people on a regular basis so you know i've been paying attention to weaponry for a while probably more seriously the last three years and then i'd say in the last two years is when we started seeing it seeing kind of uh interest from our existing legacy companies customers so people that attend social fresh people that hire social fresh for uh brand strategy and social strategy support

when we were surveying those audiences when we were talking those people there was more and more interest into uh you know defy nfts and in general just web3 blockchain technologies i think when nft started to hit the radar more in 2021 we saw that ramp up to where more people were stood in that than they were in you know clubhouse as as a topic for training for instance at one point uh so we knew we needed to start taking it more seriously we started uh getting contacted for work on the social side of web 3 and on the brand strategy side of web 3 from potential clients and just i'd say slowly over the last two years almost all of our new business

on the consultancy side has has switched over to web3 work whether that's web 2 companies coming into web3 or web 3 brands needing more traditional strategy support and you know i got to the point at one point we knew we needed to just dive deeper and we did a conference called nft fresh that was in 2021 and we really were trying to figure out where we could most help brands what we didn't know about the space um and that was a huge success it was virtual conference but uh you know we had cool cats there we had riot we had a lot of web 3 brands attend and um just a great discussion all across the

under not just nfts we talked about dals we talked about d5 and uh from there we've really zeroed in on nft projects and kind of web 3 community projects and and broad strategy and since then we've you know i'd say fifty percent of my time is what three work and fifty percent is still the legacy business of social fresh but that's starting to transition i'd say the majority after our conference next month the majority of my work will definitely be inventory when you had all these questions kind of asking about how to use nfts or by then at that point it probably wasn't really web3 i think that kind of just came around over the last year uh but what were the things that these

brands or these companies were asking like they were looking for help is it that they wanted to launch an nft is it that they were just trying to figure out how to use this space or like what what sort of themes were you seeing with these questions i think early on you know back almost two years now it's it's just more about understanding the space and the potential of the space like how is this going to impact our business will it impact our business how soon um do brands need to start you know hiring people in the space start building strategy in this space and then uh coming up to today we've transitioned i think most brands have looked at nfts kind of launching some type of nft project as a way to get their foot in the door

and then more recently maybe like a metaverse play which we advise against i'm i don't think that's the right play from us brands but that's interesting i think that's interesting to a lot of brands because there's a little bit of backlash with nft plays from brands and there's less so in metaverse uh campaigns um and i'd say that now we're starting to see a lot more brands be open to not just launching nft but launching some type of web 3 community discord tokens you know hiring community managers hiring strategy for for that longer term kind of customer community space so that's really interesting i want to

hear i want to dive super deep into you know the web 3 stuff and you know nfts and and all that that you're talking about with brands but first why do you say no to metaverse what's the reason of why you're kind of saying hold off right now people don't spend time in the metaverse like if you look at the numbers if you look at the the actual metrics that brands are traditionally going after which is brands want exposure they want awareness they want to build deeper connections with customers and potential customers and right now the metaverse you know there's some gaming um spaces that people do spend a little bit of time on the whole vr play no one spends time in vr like they put a headset on for a half hour maybe an hour

at most and they do that like at max once a week i mean there's a few exceptions to that but the average person i think the average person that owns vr goggles uses them once or twice a month so it's not a place where you're actually getting good quality of return for your investment for your marketing dollars like that may change over time but i think that's like three to ten years that changes i don't think it's next year there are other kind of desktop um metaverse plays right now but the experiences that are happening there are just not super engaging in my opinion most brand metaverse campaigns are hey come walk around the space i built for five minutes and that's it right or hey

put this outfit on that we designed and then something they never do it again right so like i mean i think there are some opportunities to experiment i just you know if and and you know really what they're after right now or just some type of pr splash we're the first to do this metaverse thing right um and that's fine pr is important um being innovative and having those stories is important i just i'm very clear with people if you're if you're really investing in web3 uh a metaverse campaign um short-term campaign is not really a long-term investment if you're looking to experiment a lot of different ways that's totally fine we can help brands do that we've got lots of interesting ideas that are more interesting than what's out there right now that we're working with people on

but um in general i think it's not the right kind of first mover opportunity for most brands and i assume that by desktop version you're talking like decentralized decentraland and and uh cryptovoxels and all those kind of things the only and i'm in the same mindset is like there's not a lot of people in there the experience is it's just not great yet it has some promise eventually but it's definitely not there the only thing that i saw that was kind of cool was last year when i think it was in decentraland they had a i think kraken put it on but it was like a festival and they had like paris hilton and a few others that were uh we're doing a concert there and that was actually kind of cool there was a decent amount of people that went in and there

was some brands that had like you know avatar clothings and things i was like oh this is like kind of cool like i sort of saw where it's going but i was like wow this is way too far out for that to make any sense yeah the technology is just not there yet i mean it's it's getting there slowly um but you know that's been you can say that for the last 20 years so it's it's you know there's it's not dissimilar for what existed 20 years ago i mean there's a lot of great advances but uh i see the vision too i think you know long term i'm bullish but uh today a brand talks to us and i'm very honest and i don't think that's the right place to put your major bet in the space right and you know many many people with

surgery i'll let you go right after this one but many people would say that web 3 in general is just not ready yet for mainstream right like the tech is just not quite there even like nfts and things like that um so with that in mind like where do you see um the kind of first stages or like where are you guiding brands and and companies to um kind of dive into the space does it like a lot of people i think see right now is well we can launch an nft and you can make some revenue um but where are you seeing sort of the bigger long-term play from this like why should brands be already experimenting with nfts even though like there's not a lot of people that own nf fees i think there's last i saw was like a few million so it's still pretty small

um so where do you see is the like is the benefit there yeah i mean today uh i think nfts are the entry point for brands and in multiple ways collaborations uh with artists launching their own collection launching their own member token community of some sort and i think one of the um one of the things is i mean some industries some brands are ready to go today if you have ip if you're a media brand it makes a lot more sense for you to be there today if you're in music if you're entertainment sports et cetera any type of media connection

um time magazine is out there doing stuff uh any of these sports faction brands you know nike adidas they're out there doing things plays out there i think all of those make a lot of sense um anybody else you're really in just kind of a innovation r d phase you're learning so launching some type of community launching some type of nft collection is great you don't need to do much with it it doesn't need to be fancy a lot of the art has been you know some of it's terrible some of it's okay um and that's fine honestly because it's you know people are gonna be interested because of the brand that if there's utility attached to it or just some type of you know this is the first time so you launched an nft like there's there's reasons to be interested there

just for that and there's plenty to learn just on those kind of basic uh you know launches more or less um i think if your company considers itself an innovative company those are the companies we're talking to both web 3 native brands and web 2 kind of innovative companies that are coming into web3 those are the brands that really are investing longer term and have a longer term strategy they want to hire web 3 people they want to hire community managers they want to you know building even if they're experimenting they want to build in steps with strategy and know what they're learning along the way uh so it just depends on what type of brand you are and what you how you consider yourself in that kind of puzzle i described i think everyone every major brand

should be looking at it they should have people with dedicated time to invest in it to research to learn at a minimum so i want to keep pulling on that thread of what should brands be doing and what what your advice would be to them but before we do one thing that we always try to focus on is the why web3 right because i think there's a lot of there's a lot of negative feelings towards particular towards nfts as you identified uh and you know when there's a new technology that comes out a lot of people wonder like is is this a good thing like why do we need this right uh and so i'm curious to hear you know when you started to

when social fresh started to get more and more web 3 opportunities and you started to get involved in web 3 why why spend your time there you know i i've even i think i've heard you say that you know web3 can be an incredible force for good which we also really believe this is so much more than just speculation and you know dollar go up um but curious to hear to hear your why and what you what you believe we're really building here and why it's important for for the planet yeah i mean i i related back to social media so when social media started going mainstream in 2007 eight nine um you know it felt the same to me a lot of people have shared this uh shared this

impression it felt the same to me as what you see with web3 now which is it's this underlying fundamental technology that is taking over the web it's not taking over everything but it's a significant enough new layer to the internet that it allows for more of a global connection it allows for more transparency it allows for more um uh just kind of purpose-based organizations and people to do cool things to build cool projects i think that's true when social launch i think web 3 is taking that up a level because of the ownership layer um web3 specifically builds on that by uh allowing for that ownership layer so

you know giving creators more power um taking away power from centralized organizations and gatekeepers uh and uh the decentralization takes that global connection point and really amplifies it so for instance like in jump dao which is a dow that jay mentioned that we're we're both in um you know i've worked with artists and community managers from uh from asia from latin america from colombia a couple of our more active members are in colombia and you know they're they're building stuff in these countries um and working for dallas where the amount of money they can make is you know 10x what you could make in those

countries natively uh but you can work from whatever anywhere in the world and many daos and many of these organizations do have global members and global kind of workers and i just am i'm blown away by that i've worked with some people in in africa that have been building nft collections in in cuba where the the kind of access to capital that they can get in web 3 just doesn't exist hasn't existed before um in any level so i you know there's a lot of web 3's not perfect there's tons of negatives too we're gonna see more and more of those just like you didn't see the negatives of social media immediately that's gonna happen but i also think web3 has

um the potential infrastructure to fix the problems that will arise from web3 more so than social does because it's decentralized so people can literally wake up and decide they want to fix something and have an impact pretty quickly i can't wake up tomorrow and change twitter's algorithm with facebook's feed right and how things are filtered there but i could launch you know an open c competitor tomorrow like there's open source ways to do that there's um there's people interested in that there's tons of open data um and just the ethos is there to to work on those types of problems so i think you know it just levels up the potential to to contribute uh you know social good

into the world i i i love that it's actually the same thing that you know i love web three fours just the openness the potential the opportunity that comes from it for anyone in the world right um and so to me that's super exciting however for big brands like let's say a meta for example uh who i mean instagram has just announced they are you know building on on top of of web3 and launching nfts which is super exciting how do you think they're thinking through this like the nice thing i saw with instagram is like they're not building their own blockchain and like creating their own nfts they're going to plug into the the open blockchains that we use right which is great but like you said is like if you don't agree with something you can't just

change twitter but in this world you can which probably isn't the most ideal scenario for companies like google and facebook et cetera um so i don't know if you're having any conversations with companies of that of that nature but um what are just your thoughts on what they're thinking or where how they um where they might take this and how they might integrate in with with all this yeah i mean i think the smart people in that space um are aware that they are likely gonna be disrupted if they don't disrupt themselves um so i think zuckerberg is thinking that meta i think missouri is thinking that instagram um the

tech people and you know finance people that i've talked to are thinking through those steps um and i think you're much more likely to see the merging of those worlds than you are to see kind of the demise of of web two companies uh like the power that that facebook has the power that instagram has the power that a lot of these tech companies google microsoft amazon have is really hard to put a realistic picture it's hard to paint that picture of people so if you look at there's 4 000 developers working on the ethereum blockchain it's so right it's i mean it's big in some ways but it's small i mean you look at facebook

has literally 10 000 developers just working on vr just vr today right you know and they're and they're working full-time where like ethereum developers are you know they're web 3 workers so are they full-time some of them probably most of them i think are probably working on multiple project projects and that's not a knock on ethereum but just to put in perspective the power of these platforms when they decide to pivot like facebook is spending more money more man hours more human hours than anyone on the metaverse right now like and probably by multiples um so i think what's gonna happen is these companies are gonna be forced to um forced to blow up their own worlds a

little bit in order to stop the kind of intruder from coming outside the house i think they have to make these changes and i mean i'm encouraged by some small things i agree that instagram building on existing blockchains um i think they're you know the the uh founders of polygon were on bank list last week talking about how um they see facebook basically launching their own uh layer three chain whether it's on polygon or somewhere else it's just dedicated to them because there's literally not a chain today like if everybody on instagram started using polygon it's not big enough it wouldn't nothing nothing is big enough today to take that kind of traffic and activity um so i think those are the types of merging that i'm talking about like

facebook working with polygon and starting something new together um i think that's the most likely outcome but it's going to be influenced by uh web3 um kind of belief systems which i think is important even even if you look at like the little detail of instagram launching nfts um the little verified badge is a hexagon it's a rounded hexagon or rextagon which is the exact shape that twitter uses for nft avatars right and that's there's no accident like that's matched exactly and it's an interoperable it's a small interoperable symbol just like you know a hashtag started on twitter and now all social platforms use it so does that mean that facebook's metaverse is going to be open and and kind of uh interoperable we still

don't know yet but i think we'll start to see small signs like that that are that are positive and if they do it poorly somebody will come along and they will disrupt them so i think most of these companies are not going to be disrupted in the way that we would hope or we think that might happen but there will be a couple situations where that does happen yeah we'll see if they we'll see if they play nice i mean one example is robin hood over the last weekend at permissions conference announced that they're launching a web 3 wallet basically like a non-custodial wallet so they're basically disrupting their own current business which is a custodial exchange um so that's really interesting i think that's hopefully the way that most of these tech and i want to say banking infrastructure and companies go i don't think the banking

system's going to do that we'll see i think they're too far gone um but so i wouldn't i wouldn't put it past the banking i mean we work with a lot of finance a lot of fintech and i think one or two of them will make that leap i think they will have the same kind of robin hood disruption yeah right because remember there's too much there's too much competition in that space already right now like it's right fintech and traditional banking is just hugely competitive um so i mean someone could easily make that leap and not have much to lose and it seems obvious but i don't know they just we'll see who does it but it seems obvious to me anyway but speaking of that can you sort of make the business case for something like instagram uh like meta and any of

these big tech companies like why should they plug into these existing blockchains rather than like like you said they have more developers than the entire space all working just on vr why don't they just build their own thing right like why do they need to plug into this um and is it just because like you said they're going to be disrupted so they kind of have to or is it because what we're building actually will be better like they'll be better off by plugging into it because they'll be able to i don't know reach their customers better or provide better experiences or like what is the business case here for them well i think i mean we're headed for a multi-chain world i think we're already in a multi-chain world even if it's all eevm um the uh the business case is that you open up

a network effect like plugging into ethereum plugging into salon and plugging into polygon uh those are early small communities but not in significant numbers and the amount of uh the amount of capital that's moving through these networks is really significant so i think if you want to be in web3 and you want to uh you want to attract the the native web 3 users today you have to connect to those networks because building your own blockchain and hoping to bring in the web drive community is a huge challenge and the longer you wait the bigger the challenge that will the bigger evm gets a bigger ethereum polygon solana get

um it's going to be a struggle so unless you are pursuing a blockchain as a business model purely if you're starting the next salon if you have you know some type of technology play that makes a better blockchain that's one thing but i think that's a whole whole different conversation i i do think you will see and especially after hearing polygons co-founders talk about this they're they're literally launching or have launched a blockchain as of service uh kind of um even if they're not doing it they're connecting brands to the to the vendors that will do it for them on polygon and you know you're outsourcing the security you're outsourcing the technical build

um the upkeep and i think that's honestly i think that's going to be the future for a lot of businesses you think of somebody like stripe or or you know instagram or amazon um they may interact with ethereum and solana and polygon but they also might need their own chain for like back end transactions or confirmations or rolling up some of these models just to increase speed and volume enough to be able to handle the scale of these businesses so i think we'll see a lot of kind of infrastructure um customized infrastructure that's still transparent still interoperable but custom to some of these unique platform situations um do you i agree actually completely i

think a lot of these companies are going to build their own roll-ups on top of you know whatever ethereum or polygon or wherever they decide to do these these roll-ups because it's not easy to build a blockchain that is sustainable right this is why the researchers of ethereum and bitcoin and all these other blockchains like it's very very hard so it makes no sense to kind of go and try to compete with that um one of the interesting things i saw recently was open c i don't know if you saw us is launching or maybe did launch already i think it's called seaport which is basically turning their marketplace well not their marketplace but creating a new one that is a marketplace that is like a protocol it is not a there's no longer like a d a centralized um product it is now like a

decentralized protocol that people can build on top of et cetera um do you think that these bigger tech companies will start to do things like that or will they just build their centralized companies and plug into um plug into web3 yeah i think it's very clever because we're already in kind of a decentralized you know looks rare did an outside attack on openc and you know because all that data's out there it's free to access um so i think you know what openc's doing with this protocol is interesting it's basically saying hey here's a protocol everyone can use and it benefits you because you can you know see what we've built and use some of the innovations we've made but it also it's open see because anybody that

uses that protocol automatically you know is interoperable with openc so they they're essentially saying we have a first mover advantage we feel like our product is high enough quality that we can protect that as long as we're interoperable with with everyone else so if you have a choice of 10 marketplaces and they're all pretty much on the same protocol openc feels like they can be the best solution so it's a it's an interesting direction at the same time the you know the rumor is that open c is going to become going to go the public route and become a public company um i don't know how that jives necessarily i mean i think they could do both clearly but it's you know when you become a public company then your

interests change slightly right you're you're you have a different um a different investor type that you have to please with public investors so i i think it's a smart move i would love to see that happen with facebook um i've seen pluses and negatives in what facebook has done so far in the very early days of what they're building i think no matter what happens like facebook is trying to facebook is trying to get out of the ad industry or at least trying to diversify their revenue away from ad dollars exclusively um and with a metaverse what's the way they're doing that they're basically becoming a fintech they're going to take a cut just like openc does openc is a is

a fintech company right they are a processor they take a cut of transactions um and i think that's what facebook is going to do and if they really want to make the most money they will make an interoperable world when anybody can come in and build their own metaverse and they take a cut of the transactions the problem is they have to take a very small cut for that to be interesting to the most people so if they go big and let everybody be interoperable and really do like web3 properly uh and decentralize that could be a great business model and it would be kind of a protocol would be a metaverse protocol so if i was them that that's what i would be doing and i you know there's hints of that in what zuckerberg talks about but there's other things you know

they came out with like if you're building nfts for their metaverse they're going to take like 51 or whatever that story was yeah i thought that that would quickly become something that they would say no we're not going to take that much that was a you know that was a typo or a mistake or something and i never saw i never saw a retraction for that no so that confuses me because that doesn't sound like what i think they should be building um but who knows i don't know what they're i don't know what they're thinking on the back of their napkin but um that's kind of how i see what it what it would be like if i was advising them i would assume that they are smarter than to do that but i guess you don't really know like if they did do that

here's the thing i feel like they could launch a metaverse and charge this 50 and i bet you it works short term yeah because they're gonna build a way better experience in ux than anyone else especially those in web 3 are doing so like i bet you it works but it definitely doesn't work long term because eventually when the decentralized the protocols actually build something of good ux like where it's much much much cheaper and interoperable then everyone's going to go there eventually but we'll see how that plays out it'll be interesting i don't know that's i'm i have no idea what's gonna happen but it should be fun to watch all right let's uh let's shift gears a little bit um let's talk let's talk a little bit about the projects you you are involved with

jason uh and where i kind of want to go is a lot of our listeners are interested in getting involved in web3 projects whether they they're trying to get a job in the space or they're interested in in joining a dao um and i i'd sort of like to hear first let's hear about your projects but then let's let's talk about how you think people can pick projects what they should be looking out for sort of this sustainability versus speculation that we see a lot of happening in the space but first first tell us a little bit about the projects that you're involved with let's start with that yeah the two main um i mean so i am an artist and i do nft art so i've done nft

art for a couple of our clients and working my own nft art so that's something i i'm always working on in the background i'm very passionate about and i um finally have an excuse to use my art degree again which is which has been nice um it's my favorite kind of work uh but the two pure kind of web 3 projects that i'm working on outside of jumped out which i'm in the leadership of is social fresh dial um and rematch down so social fresh dial is basically us taking our web to legacy company social fresh and the audience it serves is social media managers community managers essentially the professionals that run social and community accounts um and trying to build almost a pseudo

online union for for those people based on web3 um belief systems so it's decentralized we have a token the sofresh token um we want to work on big projects like mental health research uh social media community managers have some of the most stressful jobs it's literally like right behind firefighters which is you know which doesn't make any sense we're not saving lives in social media but it's just always on low pay um low respect gigs and always getting kind of trounced with troll comments and terrible dm's et cetera et cetera right so you know working on some of these things to improve the industry like a union would um to create um expectations

for hiring for job descriptions for compensation um and then diving deep into that mental health side so for instance it's very early we're building kind of the foundation of it but an example project that we're working on is to do an early test of how how much can teletherapy help people's kind of anxiety stress depression that are in this space so we're gonna do like a 15 to 30 person test uh that we're looking for some partners on to to underwrite of you know research and survey people anonymously before they do the therapy do three months of teletherapy research after and see like what is the actual effect is this something that's a sustainable solution to help people in this industry

um and yeah it's you know if you work in social if you work in community we're trying to onboard that space into web3 i think there's going to be a lot of jobs in that space if you look at web3 job boards it's literally like developers are number one community managers are number two that's those are the things that people need the most and i think a lot of social community professionals will will have higher paying gigs in this space so that's also kind of a piece of what we're building there um yeah if you work in social community check out social fresh dial um check out our twitter account there's like an application right now but eventually they'll be completely open discord as we'll put the links to that in the show notes so you can just scroll down and

you'll you'll be able to find there i'm curious i mean first that sounds amazing uh why dot why a dow instead of like the typical llc like what was the what's the benefit or the you know um the reason that you would go the dow row instead of the the old school route yeah i mean well we already have the llc and it's you know literally our conference and our consultancy and that's going to stay where it is i mean ultimately maybe there's collaboration there um but uh we wanted to do a dialogue number one because we wanted it to be um a scalable version of of working on the projects we've always wanted to work on as a small company but never had the bandwidth to do so i've wanted to do like these these

mental health research reports for almost a decade now and i just to do it correctly and do it the way i want to you know it's just it's not revenue producing it's just kind of a pure social good um and our business is small enough that i you know i can't commit hours to things that are just not gonna improve the business um so that's a piece of it and to do some of these projects correctly you really need a large community scale to support them and that's what a dow does it's it's intrinsically self-motivated uh through ownership layers through shared vision and because i want social media community professionals to be able to come in and build a dow and have that what three experience i think that's gonna be a huge education for the people

that are already signed up and i mean we're already just a decentralization piece is is you know allows you to take ideas from so many people in a quick way so like when i started this i mean we've been working on it for a few months just slowly as we once we get past the conference we'll work on it a little more but uh we've already got a podcast like the first episode of a podcast we're launching on web3 and social i didn't come up with that that wasn't in my original roadmap that was people that came in and on day one wanted to do that together um the job board that we pre-launched for web3 uh social jobs is something that one of our kind of more active early members wanted to work on and i think has come out

really well and has already helped people find jobs in the space so like those are examples of what a dow can do that an llc really can't do yeah i think it is super interesting to bring just so many people together and then these experts in all these different areas and everyone just kind of runs with it which is really cool one of the things that i always try to wrap my head around when i'm in a when i'm in a dow or learning about daz is like you said this the things you wanted to do in the dow are not necessarily revenue generating but the kind of cool thing is dao seem to have different incentive mechanisms how does this dow incentivize people like i know you have a token so i guess that's probably where the incentives come from um but like is there utility

of that token or is the plan to and maybe the job board is one of the ways like to generate revenue so that this token can hold value or like how do you see this dow like actually making sense long-term um rather than just a bunch of people kind of starting out getting some things rolling and then it sort of fades yeah i mean there's a lot of ways to build a dow you can do investment dials where there's intrinsically just a financial interest you can do larger social dials like uh friends with benefits where there's a pretty significant financial layer um i i think you know what we've chosen to do is every doubt does need a revenue model and we have revenue plans the job board is part of that but i think the larger piece of it is

just building something where the community is involved because it helps the community um that's not a webtree thing that's just great communities exist that way and that in and of itself will give the the dow social refreshed out enough kind of power authority influence that it can make it can make some significant revenue gains uh by using that force so if you you know if we institute for instance i i've never talked about this it's an idea that enters my head right now but if we wanted to we could create kind of standards in the industry so if you're hiring a community manager hiring a social media manager the

standards for social fresh style members are that you do job descriptions a certain way that compensation is thought of a certain way that whatever xyz um and companies can start to get flagged when they're not doing that hey this job description doesn't really assign to this you know set of rules that we think you should look at um and companies will start to pay attention to that maybe they pay the dow to consult on helping them hire on helping them create the right job descriptions on helping them you know improve their process that's an example of how the community itself can become a revenue generating force just because of its influence um and you know i think there's other products there's a lot of different products we've talked about and it's very early i want the community to kind of determine that on its own

um but yeah it also when you're when the when you're there because the community is helping the community members there's less of a you know requirement that it be revenue producing but i think any any dow any ownership player based organization should have a revenue plan and be looking at that direction and how do you think dows the so many of the struggles that we've heard with daos is you know the coordination right and the ability to to achieve traction when you have so many people working in undetermined amount of time on something

how how have you sort of battled those challenges of traction accountability coordination across multiple people is it the size of the dows that you're involved in that allows that because they're just smaller and so smaller teams are just easier to manage uh or is there other sort of tactics that you guys have used i mean it is chaos uh chaos for sure um i think the dials that do a best job have very clearly defined structures and plug-and-play opportunities for people to jump in so making you know repeatable task in the dow something that people can

learn how to do can understand are opportunities that they can join and volunteer for things like that um having training for those specific roles having clear easier onboarding solutions so people know what the dow does where needs help etc cultivating the right culture inside of a dao i think is very important that's a direct reflection of the founders leaders kind of um loudest voices in the dow for better or worse and i think in general uh having a ownership layer early that gives people a sense of value it

doesn't necessarily have to be my nft for this dow is worth ten thousand dollars but it's worth something i earned it or i bought it um and i know i could sell it or you know it's one of the first nfts i got because this is one of the first dolls i participated in like having those ownership player pieces are pretty important even just i designed the newsletter for the dial and i got 100 tokens for it you know those things are significant experiences even if that token is not liquid and there's no it's not technically worth anything today just receiving that especially if you're new to this to the web free space is a significant experience and a significant a new way to think about participating in an organization i think

those can help people um have that intrinsic motivation do you find that um brands you're speaking to are thinking about launching dows like you said you're like you know we have our llc social fresh and it's doing its thing but we don't have the bandwidth right the scale to do the other things we want um is this a common thread at all or a common theme you're seeing with other brands or is it more sticking to nfts uh and kind of that route for now i think the ones that are innovative brands are thinking about it i've definitely talked to multiple brands about it some of them they know it's benefits some are more kind of innovative technology companies that are looking at it

looking at ways to test it experiment with it um but yeah i think most brands are hesitant to go fully into kind of a down direction right so when you speak to a brand i'm sure it's all one-off and very customizable um because it depends on the brand and what they're doing but do you have some sort of loose like framework like i don't know start with just building a community inside of a discord uh and then it's like i don't know launch a po-app or something just to get people so they have wallets and can interact with nmts and something from there like is there a bit of a framework you take people's or brands and companies through or what are your how do you see that yeah i mean it's it's it's honestly some

of the boring stuff that comes first there's some research into their audience um some conversations around you know if you launch an nft and there's backlash because people see nfts is bad for the environment are you prepared for that conversation for that backlash um can you ignore it uh has your organization established you know environmentally sound kind of policies internally when it comes to other technology that you can apply to the space do you have a lot of developers that work for your company do you have a connection to the gaming industry because those are the two audiences that are going to be uh most uh opinionated about nfts

being involved in a brand so some of those conversations are the most important to have early and then if they're truly committed to you know the r d level of innovation testing learning um then it's you know what is the best kind of section of their audience um community customer base or employee base that we can experiment with talk to and figure out some clear kind of kpis that will help them learn and help them understand how these technologies can impact their business and help maybe their marketing their loyalty some existing you know uh some existing channel of

or metrics that they're already working on that it could potentially plug into um i i always love to ask this question on podcasts and some people are really good at this some not so much i like to like look into the future and try to pick people's brains and see like where do they see this whole space going and i know that is impossible to predict but i'm just curious when you think about you know i don't know three five whatever whatever time frame is what you think about but where do you see this all going in terms of like how businesses interact with this stuff and interact with their customers and um like is there a place that you see this going and you can see it clearly or is it like i have no idea we're just like let's figure out how to get this

technology right first and go from there um anything that comes to mind when i ask that yeah i mean a lot of things we have a lot of these conversations and jump on a regular basis but i think any any large brand um especially if they're a luxury brand especially if they're a technology brand we'll be accepting crypto as payment in the next couple years uh we're seeing that shift happen on a regular basis right now um i think you'll start to see more employees paid in crypto that's a little bit harder but stripe i think will become important to that piece of it or some similar existing web 2 brand metal that'll allow that to be

an easier plug-and-play um i think every brand should be looking at um you know where the blockchain is going to disrupt them where someone can come in and do what they're doing better because of the blockchain and they should be experimenting with that now i think uh i think where social media took us is going to be pretty similar in an adoption curve for social i mean for web3 so social we're about almost 15 years into the adoption curve maybe a little more um and it probably took seven eight years for it to really um start to

be a significant mainstream technology and today let's go up 15 years in um it's the most common it's the thing that we spend the most time on on the web right social media social networks are where we spend a lot of time are where our friendships exist online our work environment is increasingly in in social science social platforms online i think that's where web3 goes i think we're technically probably two or three years into like a proper web three even though crypto and blockchain is is much older um and i think you know we're probably five to ten years away from kind of full mainstream adoption but i think you're gonna see very influential pockets

of consumers adopting these uh adopting these technologies pretty quickly over the next few years and i think that is going to create a lot of for me like web3 doesn't exist without a social layer and i i talk about web3 and social almost hand in hand it's it's very connected you know nfts are essentially a social layer within web3 any token is blockchains are essentially a social layer even even more than that their technology and humans interacting on a regular basis and i think the automation of that the decentralization of that is going to change things in significant ways i think the banking industry is going to be completely disrupted i think social media is going to be very disrupted and

i think it's going to create a lot of challenges especially in politics i mean political dials like we've seen one significant political doubt launch already with andrew yang i think we'll see a lot more over the next couple years leading into two big election seasons in the us i think there'll be a lot of negatives amongst that but i think there'll be a lot of positive shifts as well where people can actually do things like what the constitution dial did uh but for less maybe frivolous uh uh kind of with more purpose and more uh real world effect hopefully other than just buying the constitution because why not i mean that's cool and it's fun it's like it doesn't really

change anybody's life right um and i think we can do big experiments like that uh with some larger there's there's a cool dow that's doing some significant work on buying up enough of the rainforest in south america and brazil to have like a large impact on the rainforest not completely disappearing from the world so like things like that i'm fascinated by very cool very cool i want to pull on one thread there uh was the social media disruption would love to get your take on how what what do you how do you think web3 will disrupt social media we're chatting with lens protocol right now uh and having them come on the podcast and

we'll be chatting more and more about that uh in the next couple weeks uh we're also having disco um xyz come on the podcast talk about digital identity so so much happening in that space but just would be curious to to hear your take yeah i mean i see um the decentralization of social is is inevitable really and whether that's facebook and twitter um opening up um you know some some major existing social platform is going to open up and be owned by the users and if they don't a new social platform is going to come along that is owned by the users i i think this this uh you know

storyline of elon trying to buy twitter and whether that happens or not one of the things that that's exposed is that twitter and some social networks are a tough business like twitter doesn't make enough money really for anybody to spend a ton of money on them um as an ad business like facebook is scaled enough to where they've made that work but for a lot of them it's not really a great business model um so it makes a lot more sense for those platforms as a public good to be owned by the users and to have you know impact by those users i think you know we spoke to we spoke about this previously but there's hard decisions that get made on these platforms and i think they become more interesting and more customized

when this platform is decent centralized and you know you or i and other people can make decisions about what they see in their feed what type of content gets sent to them and shared with them on a regular basis how that makes them feel on a regular basis who who can contact them who can respond to them like some of those features have improved over the last five years on these platforms but there's a lot further it could go and i think if one of these companies doesn't do it themselves uh one of the you know 30 different decentralized web three social platforms that are being built right now will well even coinbase is heading that way right like starting social with their marketplace

yeah it's not decentralized yet but they're they're going that route they said anyway any predictions just uh last question any predictions on who you think will will tokenize first is it instagram twitter reddit uh youtube i mean twitter is the twitter is the perfect candidate right um yeah they have been in crisis for like a decade of not really making enough money and yet the power of the platform reaches around the world it's it's more media uh more media kind of power is on twitter than any other social network in the world it has the same awareness as facebook even though it's like a tenth of the size globally um so i you know it's just it literally is

a kind of town square even though it's privately owned by um stockholders today and i think long term i would just literally launch a token based on past contributions to the platform and turn it into some type of probably dual token owned web3 dao of some sort like it's i there's there's a lot of problems to figure out for that to work on such a scale of a platform like this but um i think there's a lot of people that would commit significant time to making that work when that happens i think the world is a very different place at that moment yeah i mean that's a big that's a big you know jump for that to happen but i think

it i think it could all right before uh before we wrap up i want to talk about remint dao uh because i just love this project i've got the website up here so i'm just gonna queue you up here jason tagline resurrecting nft collections our goal is to give new life to undervalued yet deserving nft collections through buying promoting and general project support where did where did this idea come from why why start this what are you what are you planning what are you hoping for tell us about remit yeah i mean i literally just tweeted maybe two months ago the general idea of this and i got so many dm's i probably

got more dms from this than any other tweet i sent out people just really connected with their idea um so i launched 100 nfts i think we sold 20 21 of them um launched them just a few weeks ago and we've had our first meeting last week i actually was barely on the first meeting because i was flying to london um but we have enough kind of interested cool people in the group i mean there's some really interesting people that have already brought in some of them like there's a couple whales at the bottom there's a couple of people that are just highly connected in the space a lot of dow folks a lot of marketers that are interested in this i think marketers have a connection to this because they love kind of the idea of reinvigorating a brand

but there's just so much noise out there in the nft space there's collections launching every day multiple collections a day and there's just too much noise for every great project to get the spotlight that they deserve so our um our group is passionate nft collectors that want to find under uh performing nft collections that we can revive and that will be through purchasing mostly individual purchasing the the dow wallet itself will buy a few for each one um and uh also we want to you know do marketing support do twitter spaces change your pfps

um we're gonna we're gonna publish a uh thesis for every collection that we target and we're probably gonna target a collection pretty soon like before we even sell the first hundred nfts um but it's a small test we've had a lot of fun with the discussion so far talking about which collections we're going to target and it's just a cool little fun native project that i that i've enjoyed kind of the organic nature of it so far it's been really fun to work on i love it i think it's fascinating and so what what makes you think that there are projects that are under minted out there i guess is is i might i think the natural thing to say would be well it was undervented because

it wasn't that good or it didn't have something i think yeah i mean i think what's missing is a lot of people launch an nft collection and then they don't have the kind of marketing perspective or the time to spend to get out there and promote it the way that it deserves yeah i know i've i've bought into several kind of underperforming collections and i think i think one of the reasons people are so excited about this people that are joining um and people get really excited about it is because everyone relates to the storyline of i've bought into an nft collection that did underperform and i feel like it has a lot of potential

and then all of us kind of comparing notes on why we all think that do we think about the same collections do we do we have different assumptions from each other um and spoiler alert we do all have different assumptions and um you know and there is a question the question is is can you revive an old collection i think there's some examples out there of that happening especially kind of historic collections um but i mean this is an experiment we may get into this and learn that it is very very hard to relaunch a collection um i'm under the opinion that we can learn pretty quick probably over the course of six months to a year what it would take to revive a collection and i think there's some fundamental things that would do that because essentially every nft collection it does really well it's

just momentum fomo like getting into the zeitgeist and that attention spotlight and i think the resources of this group already are significant in those directions so i'm looking forward to seeing what we would choose first well it's about creating a narrative as well right like like crypto punks i wouldn't say that they were revived because i they started off free i guess to mint um but they didn't go anywhere for a really long time and all of a sudden there was a narrative like oh this was the first one and boom like now everyone knows crypto punk right so it's it's definitely possible if you can find the right and that's really marketing right it comes down to finding that narrative and getting people getting people excited about it right yeah and there's just so much great art

i mean as an artist um there's just so much great art out there that in my opinion could do a lot better and could be introduced to people at a much larger scale than it was absolutely yeah no for sure i completely agree um okay let's uh let's we like to wrap up a little bit of a speed round jason so just do some rapid fire questions at you um you ready to go let's get it i am let's do it okay so let's start off with favorite person to follow on twitter we just talked about twitter oh favorite single person to follow on twitter or

company yeah could be twitter account in general um the state of new jersey is a pretty good account to follow uh okay they're very yeah they're very kind of stakehom used to be uh my number one but the person that wrote the tweets for stakehome nathan alback is no longer writing his tweets so i will say the state of new jersey i think they do a really good job trolling other states what is the state of new jersey i've never like you just you just make one outcast with that they make fun of like delaware a lot they um they did like an emoji map of the state once and like talk about bagels and pizza in new jersey and the shore i

don't know it's just very true to the state and they've done a pretty good job obviously following them right now as we speak that sounds amazing so basically the same new jersey is just a troll account from other states sounds fantastic okay um other than your own projects uh another project could be an nft could be a dow it could be a protocol any other web3 project that has sort of caught your attention recently that you're excited about um i will give a shout out to crypto maurice i'm not an owner but i'm thinking about getting one um it's kind of like skull art uh collection

um they are embarking on a utility for their members where they're giving to you know connect to our social style project they're giving free teletherapy to any of their holders and they've uh they've partnered with a vendor that does this for like corporations that want to provide therapy and other kind of health resources for their employees um so i'm watching that a little closely and really curious to see how that pans out for them and kind of the economics of that um benefit that they're offering i think they seem to be a pretty positive community and i've heard good good vibes from people that are holders of that that's awesome that's awesome we'll definitely include links to all

these in the show notes as well um favorite or funniest token name favorite or funniest token name um you know there was a gm token and there's been several but there was one that caught like a little bit of uh of a high for maybe like a couple weeks last year and i just i loved the idea of there being a gm token and there was no utility to it whatsoever so that was cool it sounds like we were in the middle of a bull run if that's happening random token but i just like i just liked i just liked being able to write like dollar sign gm yeah i don't know it was funny i love it awesome um

i want to give you a chance to uh tell tell our listeners where they can find you i know you've got the social press conference coming up in uh just less than a month uh we'll include obviously all the links to you in the show notes but where can people find you if they want to reach out how can they join your various projects yeah twitter is the best place to find me at jason keith k-e-a-t-h riementdow.com for arraignment down if you're looking at that you can buy the tokens by the nft now the member nft and join the discord um and then social fresh is june 21st to 23rd in charlotte north carolina so you can go to socialfresh.com 2022 to check that out if that's really for people that are

professionals in social community or if you're running a startup and you you know are doing your own social community right now it's it's where you get kind of the best of what's working in social media for businesses today awesome jason thank you yeah i was just gonna say thank you this is a great conversation uh it's really nice to have someone on that you can tell you're super passionate about this you probably think about this all the time as i do and jay does as well so it's nice to speak to someone who's that deep into it so thanks for joining and uh that great conversation yeah thanks great to meet you guys have a good one thanks so much listeners

and uh we'll uh we'll see you next time on the show thank you for listening to web3 academy we hope this helps you along your web3 journey if it does please share this episode and subscribe so you don't miss the next one by the way if you have yet to join the discord community you are missing out this is where all the magic happens this is where we learn where we ask questions where we network uh you want to be in there the link to join is in the description below and finally a quick disclaimer nothing in this podcast was financial advice crypto and web3 can be risky you can literally lose it all in fact if you invest on account of what we say you probably will lose it all so don't do that in all honesty the point of this podcast is to remove the noise

of markets and price and focus on utility implementation anyway so you should not take any of this as financial advice thank you friends and see you in the next one