Building Cosmos Apps for Mass Adoption – Sarah-Diane Eck of Lum Network

Transcript

algories to make everyone a cosmonaut and we announced this D5 product called diffract which is basically a basket and index of Cosmos projects with yield revenues and it's really this diffraction of light and putting light onto onto Cosmos [Music] foreign [Music] it is day three and it's going to the

end of the conference the weather has turned on us unfortunately but there's still a lot of energy here at the conference a lot of stuff going on and I'm really excited to have met up with sadian EK of loom Network hi Seva thanks for doing this great to see some fellow French people here at Costco versus like there's more and more I feel like every Cosmos event I go to I see more French people like I see the the French Community like kind of coming together and growing um yeah so what's your experience been so far I mean at the first conference in Lisbon where we actually met there were less French people than no but the overall ecosystem was smaller than no it's it's huge to see it's great to see how the ecosystem has evolved

yeah and now we are in Medellin and yeah the conference is awesome the energy is great even if the weather is not perfect but people have a sunny sunny mindset so yeah that's great so you just gave a talk and you announced some new things that you guys are working on but before we talk about that I mean I want to maybe feel for for our listeners who are not familiar with loom Network just describe what you're working on and so just for for context I'm an investor in the network um but the reason why I invested in Loom well one of the reasons was I think that what you guys are building is as close to like a real world

application that we've seen in the ecosystem and I my my background is in e-commerce and so it just made so much sense uh to use a blockchain to incentivize user generated content I think at least that's how I explain it you can explain how you know you're used to yeah no that's a great explanation and you write this is also what is driving us to drive Mass adoption to cosmetical system to crypto and blockchain in general and yes we have built with a group called Skippers a decentralized review system to give transparencies to reviews but also to a real world system that is transparent because you know the problem is that people when they put

content online the what we have seen is that the content is decreasing the quality of the content is decreasing the conversion is decreasing and they wanted to incentivize people to produce content but if they have a reward system it considers that paid reviews yeah and then they lose the trust so it's uh it's done anymore so it's an opportunity because it's a big group they send every year 100 of millions of emails to collect reviews for Brands so it's a huge opportunity to to scale it's also a great experience to work with those kind of groups because it has a complexity and especially in the those timing with the beer market and so on all the food Refugee Associated but it's great for us

to pursue this Mission and now the use case is in production so Loom is the layer one the use case the product is called Tipper rewards we help Skippers to build it and know every day users that don't know anything about crypto start to receive receiving crypto rewards for the content they produce so one of the challenges here I think and you know it exists through a lot of verticals is when you have incentives you're also creating incentives for people to create spam and to create like you know just basically try to gain the system um how are you guys tackling that and like what's the you know how big is this challenge for you internally it's a big

challenge basically what we are doing now is a 101 version and it's the first thing that Brands don't like is really short reviews like great or bad but what is about what is great it it doesn't help it doesn't give any insight and it doesn't help any other consumer to make the best purchase decision so either the rating even if it's one star or five star when the the quality increases the level of forward increases and this is totally transparent can be checked on loom Explorer so this makes the system a really interesting and trustable and the goal is to improve the detection of the quality so we have a lot of things to

build on that reputation system analysis textual analysis and so on and yeah it's really wide so but we are glad to to start already with counting the number of characters seeing if there is a media attached picture video and so on and then we can more and more scale decentralize all of these processes yeah I mean you can also you can only go so far with this kind of quantifiable metrics you know like how many characters or this is is a conversation that and it kind of ties in a little bit to what you guys are are building I think you probably have similar challenges so there's a project in the ethereum ecosystem called gitpo app I don't know if you're familiar with it so

poapp is uh you know an anti-station service that allows you to prove that you were somewhere that you met someone through nft and then uh and there's an interview with Patricio of poapp which I'll link to here and I also talked to um this guy Colfax who's building gitpo up also does an interview with uh Colfax which I'll link to here but basically what they're saying is hey we're gonna issue a PO app for anyone who contributes to open source software and the whole problem with this sort of adaptation Service is like how do you measure the quality of like code and I think with with this it's even more complex because like how are you going to measure the quality of a contribution

or the impact of a code contribution to like an open source repo and so you know there are also implementing things like you know is it a comment or is it like actual code or is it just like a bug fix or is it just like a typo fix but at the end of the day like you might make a one-line uh contribution to a repo and it might be like extremely valuable but meanwhile someone might like refactor a whole piece of code that doesn't really have a whole lot of value you know for for reviews it's similar like the value that's perceived it's hard to measure until you've actually had someone who's read that review and felt that review was valuable right like the value is it's really in the people who are consuming the thing like

um and so yeah how are you thinking about what are ways that we can build better curation mechanisms or quality control mechanisms or like how do we measure the value of things in a decentralized ecosystem where we are trying to build things without sort of like Central points of failure or like AIS might you know that might be like reading the stuff and yeah that's a really good question and for me it's all about Community as you Etc because there are other consumers that have the same the same opinion as you that can evaluate the content you produce and so on and this is interesting because in terms of tech Loom network is a layer one so it's a blockchain it's a database and the value of the database will grow with the content that people are

producing and the opportunity we have to work with a real life business is that the first user that will put content into this blockchain are verified users because they only work with people that already have major purchase and then they receive an email or today it's how it works yeah so it's an opportunity to start with this database of users that will step by step understand the value of this community and then we can really gamify also the way to contributing to the expansion of this blockchain on our goal today we are giving to them Loom rewards so it's a great way to align them so they are putting content they can then review content and can then

evaluate your content and so on and at some point it's Loom means light so they are spreading light onto content but um one of our end goal is not only to expose them to a room but to the entire Cosmos ecosystem because what we believe is mass adoption is the experimental to make any any Innovation survive and be developed and yeah the cosmonauts it's what is driving us yeah that's great um how many like yeah how many people are using loom like what are the brands how many Brands you have onboarded and yeah like what's the adoption yeah so we just started a few months ago to put the

Skipper's rods up in production yeah so it's a mobile it's a wallet that allow people to start collecting their rewards yeah and for now they are drinking in a subset of of people and Merchants so we have everyday thousands of new users that are joining um it's really small in comparison to the whole amount they could scale but as I said working with real life business comes with a lot of human and also technical complexities they don't have the same roadmap Thanos so I can I cannot wait to have this big scale uh coming yeah and it's the it's the job we will do in the next month

okay um yeah how do you deal with things like wallets I think that's one of the biggest kind of pain point for you know consumer adoption I don't like this kind of like Mass adoption or even consumer adoption it's just like growth you know because like it's not like there's a day where like all right consumer adoption however like Mass adoption is like it's here no like it's like a slow steady thing and then you one day wake up and it's like hey billions of people are using this but yeah how do you deal with with the the complexity of the wallet um are you using you know things like threshold signature stuff to like help people secure their wallet or are they just like having 12 word seed phrases yeah and so just first regarding Mass solution actually there is a theory

behind it between early adopters and the only majority before even the mass adoption there is really a breaking point that means that um this is something that is hard to cross this is the Gartner curve thing yeah exactly so it's a theory from Everett Rogers who was an American communication sociologist and he's the one who coined the term early adopters okay and this is an actual challenge because this working Point either you cross it and then there is a mainstream user adoption either a technology and Innovation eventually dies at some point because it's a competitive environment or evolve in another way Also regarding

the wallet that's a really good question we are trying to make the process as smooth as possible for the users so right now our goal is to process into a custodian management that is ended by Skippers and at some point we are working on way to have it the more decentralized as possible but easy for the user and this is all the complexity for every project is how to have this mix between independency and transparency and decentralization but without the complexity so this is uh actually the measure of quality is one of the challenge we have but not to

really short term the short-term challenge we have is this yeah so that's that's the main question actually I mean it is a hard problem I feel like there's teams that are cracking that problem so like one of the teams that I think is really doing a good job here is Zengo yeah I've onboarded so many people using xengo as like but they don't support Cosmos yet like Zengo please please Implement Cosmos uh in your wallet um yeah but so let's talk about um let's talk about diffract uh this thing you announced today yeah yeah what's diffracting yeah it's so different we're just announced it today so just for the sense of the words yeah it's a it's a the beta version

means light and we are giving Loom to a lot of mainstream user but our goal is to make them benefit from a lot of crypto and blockchain opportunities because we believe in financial inclusion and we believe that Cosmos is a great ecosystem with the multi-chain Paradigm it's there is a complexity in it but our goal is to make everyone a cosmonaut and we announced this defy product called diffract which is basically a basket and index of Cosmos projects with the yield revenues so in this beta version it works really simply uh user

can mint dfr so node dfr is created at first but user mean dfr in exchange of usdc and then the protocol buys the underlying assets they stack them and then the second URLs are compounded to increase the value of the protocol on liquidity so it's a way actually it's a easy way for users like buying crypto holding them staking them compounding the reward in a really simple way so right now it's a beta version we wanted to push it now because it's for an experimentation also to work with other protocols with Cosmos contributors with validators to set the basic rules of this this project we had

so many positive feedback of people telling us yes this is really needed and so on and it was for us at some point it could be a great reward to give to users directly so we shaped that at the beginning for mention user but what we are realizing is that even people in Cosmos or another crypto ecosystem could be interested in this project yeah yeah so and so right now it's in beta but then ongoing is ready to use all the evolution of like that are currently being deployed and so on that we will contribute in to have a product that is that is a community Centric product it's really important to mention that we don't have any team allocation we don't have any dfr the protocol will not have

any discount any person we are building it with International Builders programs okay and yeah we basically um want to to develop something to make to make the cosmos Community shine and being developed because we are all acting as a unit here and if you know atom or small Etc again more Exposition and so on everyone benefits from from it so it's a way for us to make people discover Cosmos we also created a lot of content and educational content like a national notion website I saw that yes it's great you know I also have something similar I've got a notion doc that I sent to like investors or people who are

interested in Cosmos and yours is really really nice yeah this is super fun because we we didn't decide to do it basically some people on our team just say yeah we started to do that because they they like explaining what is cosmos to other people so it can just naturally so this is what we like and we'll do another one of these in French so we can also put it on there yeah yeah so um oh it will go we have the opportunity to shape a really good product maybe it's uh it's something that won't speak to the community but so far it has been well accessible the challenge I see here is you know this adoption challenge so you

know I saw it I thought okay this is cool I could definitely see myself even like buying some of these uh index tokens there's like an nft also that you that you're releasing with this for like early users the the risk that I see is that it just becomes like another kind of defy assets for degens and how do you plan to kind of Market this To None like what's your strategy here and then the other I guess question that falls into that is what's the regulatory framework here because you know you don't want it to be a security or of course I don't like I don't know what the risk is but yeah so uh first the way I see it is that we are doing it to give the motivation to people to join Cosmos

ecosystem that's that's why also we are gamifying with this collection of wearable helmets Cosmonaut nfts to make it fun to to give a feeling of people to be part of the community and so so that's uh that's something that we want to do something that is fun so that's the first point the the second point is about the children and so on we really are working to design some rules to make the protocol as crystal clear as possible and the goal is that it can bring also fresh money to the ecosystem like from other ecosystem I don't know solar energy Raman people that don't know

anything about Cosmos they want to get an exposition they can have one easily at some point a traditional or crypto investor can also be interested to having an asset that is Diversified so with less risk but easy to manage so this is something we will push in terms of jurisdiction the V1 aims to be fully decentralized so now it's an experimentation we are we are building it with the community and the full decentralization will give in regard to the regulations such as Mika and so on it will be totally compliant to the regulation right now as you may know the loom protocol is based on the Swiss regulation we are a non-profit organization based in soccer we decided

to to it's not an easy framework but we decided to go through this framework because it's a really good framework for protocols this is why Cosmos Foundation is there protocols yeah because they managed to reply your rules and online rules offline and it's really strict so for example I don't have any shares of the foundation it's really regulated we have to do a lot of reporting so it's really protective for the ecosystem but yes the the product at some point could evolve in a new dimension to involve more menstrual measure to at some point maybe some guy can use his credit card it's not it's not that yet done yeah but at some point yeah I want to be involved in Cosmos you can just

buy with his creditors there are so many things we can do also with IBC to use the development of the cosmos ecosystem and it will be step by step so just now we announce it it's a really great Community project and the goal is to get a lot of feedback and contribute also to the development of the new ABC feature the development of international accounts and so on and of course it's also a technical challenge I mean we like we always have been driven by a technical problem and how to find solution of it and yeah it's it's an evolution and we look forward to launch defect V1 which will be the actual first version of the this protocol on

liquidity and yeah the roadmap is that we have it launched in three to four months so we say three to four months to be reasonable and I hope it will be even before that okay well I think there's already a website where people can go and like read about it yeah exactly what's the website it's called the diffract.fi okay so defract d f r a c-t yeah diffraction so D but then directly F air AG City okay so yeah and so it's really this diffraction of light and putting light onto a onto Cosmos nice okay well this is exciting uh looking forward to seeing that come out and um yeah also

like very excited about Bloom generally I think it's like a cool product uh addresses like a real use case something that a lot of people understand and also very and you know anxious to see uh more Merchants adopted and seeing it in more like e-commerce platforms and I think there's also lots of other places where not just e-commerce but like hey I I I've got like we I rent my places in Airbnb why wouldn't the people who rent my places in Airbnb be able to you know when they leave a great review get some sort of you know duration for that so the applications are really endless but even uh some for some Cosmos projects so when we first announce this this project in Lisbon people were really excited and

we have talked with other protocol Founders such as for example Ariel from passage and introduce he's doing a Marketplace of a Webster game nfts and so on and so that I don't want us to build our own real and incentive system so how can we use Loom and build the reputation system also for people in ecosmos and you see there is a link between Loom and diffractor because what we believe is that people will put content on online product this is what we are doing right now but can also put content on other web 3 projects and so on and the whole influencing world and the way you are producing content is not all the time working well there are people that are producing really good content and should be incentivized in Cosmos we are lucky because I feel that

people there is not as much as as you have in some other ecosystem because we have a lot of Builders and maybe this is a way to keep the philosophy of this ecosystem keep developing and this is why we want to contribute to that also all right yeah thank you so much this is great yeah yeah thanks bye [Music]