Build A Chain In Any Language with Melanie Mohr of PWR Labs

Transcript

We are basically focusing on being just very good blockchain infrastructure that completely separates the validation layer from the execution layer. For the first time in blockchain history, you can plug in every web 2 application in JavaScript, in Python, in C, in C++ directly into the blockchain. Your software application transformed into a decentralized software application that switches on web 3. We believe what needs to happen is deliver crazy scale without having to have heavy validator [Music] notes. I'm here with Melanie Moore,

co-founder of Power Chain. We're going to be talking today about how Power Chain is different from other L1s and how it enables projects to launch their own blockchains on this unified infrastructure. Before we get started though, make sure to subscribe, hit the like button, and hit the notification bell to get notified when new episodes drop every week. Hey Melanie, thanks for joining me. Yeah. Hey, so glad to be here with you. Thanks so much for inviting me over. Yeah, of course. So we met in I think Abu Dhabi like a couple of months ago and you were telling me about power chain and you described it as a layer zero blockchain. Now I don't want to use that word to refer to like layer zero the uh you know the interoperability protocol but that power

chain was sort of a layer zero that an underlying layer that sits underneath other L1s that can utilize different virtual machines you know cosmaz move SVM EVM or even other um virtual machines that we're not familiar or not used to seeing in crypto like like the Linux VM and things like that. Um I thought I thought this was really interesting and we had a conversation I was sort of challenging this idea that it was a layer zero that it's actually a layer one. So I think we're going to get into that here. Um but before we do that though like I'd love to hear a little bit about how um you got into crypto and also like how did you start working on this problem? Yeah. So um I basically had a previous life, previous career in

the media and marketing industry uh till about 2014 when I exited my media companies and pivoted into media and martekch. So I started building mobile apps for content creation, content distribution and in 16 I discovered Bitcoin for myself. I thought wow someone has built this financial new financial system completely decentralized and trustless. uh was very fascinated by the underlying tech and dig deeper and also put a little bit of my exit money into it and then in 17 saw Ethereum and all these amazing ICOs and business logic implemented and so again came a little bit more from an investment point of view and then in

1819 I thought I also would like to build in this space and naturally because of my marketing and media tech background the first path went into social. So I uh had an idea around a protocol layer around word of mouth marketing and executed this but it was really step by step. I would say I was very early in social. I integrated at the end this protocol layer in various apps um and failed with one app where it was too early to introduce this new ecosystem and economy to basically people who are not cryptonative yet. And then I brought it to more and more adoption over time and actually at one moment in 2023 it was at around 200,000 daily

transactions and then I was looking into all the layer ones and layer 2s and you know all the infrastructure out there and thinking where could I migrate them over because most of the transactions were still in a centralized database and this is where I got into the deepest web 3 depression after years in web 3 grinding hard because I could not really find a fit for it. And then I met my co-founder Eddie uh in Dubai. He had a dev shop and was already a CTO for many years and with 12 or sometimes 16 developers at hand. And uh yeah, I saw some other tech that he had built and he told me then, Mel, I haven't told you

yet. I have worked on this new blockchain and maybe you want to have a look. And well at the end I did more than having a look and now I'm a co-founder. That's my journey. Yeah. Great. Okay. Cool. And is like what's the current status of the project? Yeah. Where are you guys on the road map? Yeah. I mean first of all I would say what fascinated me about power chain because to be honest I was in 2023 in this deep deep web 3 depression where I thought everyone who is who was coming with any blockchain idea I thought oh why does the world need another blockchain I was really so uh I thought you know this is not having a great future I also did not see actually a super great future for interoperability

because it is such a fragmented web free space. So it took some time for me to understand that what Eddie has envisioned and already started basically building and working on was so different to anything that I had seen in 8 years in web 3. And so um where we are now I mean what I first of all liked when he introduced me to it and I think you know after we will dive a little bit deeper into what's really the solution and the problem we are solving here with but what I liked about his attitude was he said Mel I'm a few months out of going testn net live this was all bootstrapped so far how about we bootstrap it

together and only in the moment we are going testn net live and show it to some founders and get some traction, we start showing it also to some maybe investors in your network. And I like this approach of you know being so diligent and going more the legit approach and that was also uh convincing me to join him in his journey. Okay, cool. So let's let's talk about this solution solution. Right. So there's there's different layers to this stack. People can check out the docs if they're interested. I'll leave a link in the show notes, but but basically the way you explained power chain to me was like a consensus layer and and that consensus layer allows transactions to

be settled on on this unified layer and then there are applications you know smart contract sort of execution layers uh that sit on top of it and and settle to this layer. Now to me that sounds like sort of a shared security setting, right? Like configuration where you have an L1 and then you have L2s on top of it. You guys are intent on calling it a layer zero. Why you're intent on calling it a layer zero and not just an L1 like everybody else? What makes you special basically? Yeah. So first of all, it started by it is really the first infrastructure that completely separates the validation layer from the execution layer. So by doing so we are basically focusing on being just very good

blockchain infrastructure for consensus the security data storage transaction record and all of this with instant finality and with very very high throughput and without having to compromise decentralization and on top you have the freedom to build for the very first time in any coding language and any framework. It's completely framework encoding language agnostic. So it doesn't have this framework like a cosmos or avalanche or polka dot you know where you need to use this framework to build your own layer ones on top and very often you even have then to have still your own set of validators in power chain's case you have this

layer zero blockchain infrastructure you can build in solidity with EVM kind of style virtual machines you can build in rust and wom or sana virtual machine You can build in move with any sort of move virtual machine on top. But and that was the very convincing part for me. For the first time in blockchain history, you can plug in every web 2 application, web two software application in JavaScript, in Python, in C, in C++ directly into the blockchain and just basically your software application transform into a decentralized software application that switches on web 3. And I saw the

developer adoption in web 3 already. I would say as a huge failure to be honest 10 years after Ethereum with a lot of money billions that went into web 3 in investment in grants in hackathons and from 28 nearly meanwhile 29 million developers on the planet we have only migrated over to web 3 23,000 and so I was thinking why why why was no one more interested in blockchain in utilizing it or what what was the hurdle? And for me really the hurdle is that we started with niche coding languages. Great for smart contracts but

with this focus we also left many many engineers talent creativity out of web 3. Yeah I I have my opinions on on this varies. So I I I think most developers just don't see the use case. I think that blockchains there's there's something that's a little bit understated in crypto and that is that crypto is an exit from the fiat system and from the traditional finance system. Um a lot of people who build in crypto I think have this semiquasi political alignment and there's something about crypto that is more than just building applications that that may be changing and it certainly I think is changing in that direction with the things like

NFTTS and more kind cultural applications but I think that for the majority of people who are in crypto there is this underlying political ideology that kind of comes along with it and I think For most developers, they just want to like build an app and make a living and aren't concerned with exiting the traditional finance system as as much as they may see problems with it or the fact that it's fraught with corruption and fraud, etc. or all the other problems that come along with it. So, I I think that that probably counts for a lot of why developers are not making the jump into crypto and you know the complexity of the development languages and how they are different from existing development languages that to me feels like less of an issue. I mean look when um when the

when mobile phones came out right like everybody was building in PHP and then all of a sudden they had to learn like whatever C or something to build like an iPhone app that didn't stop millions of people from start building you know mobile phone applications and and other time types of applications. I think I think crypto really has this chasm which is you know in order to be a crypto person like you have to be a crypto person and uh and that I think counts for a lot I would say I mean yes and no there is one thing we started with blockchain infrastructure that was the last 10 years focused on smart contracts and smart contracts are great they obviously have brought something completely new to the world having trustless business logic

execution nevertheless as they are siloed. That's why web 3 is so far siloed from web 2 and smart contracts which this was actually also something that I didn't know before really meeting Eddie and discussing things with him was I didn't know that smart contracts can so far only utilize a handful of algorithms. And the thing is if you would be able to code on a blockchain using existing coding languages like C, JavaScript, Java, you know, coding languages that have decades of computer science backing and all of these beautiful algorithms and algorithms are the ones that are running the planet,

the digital planet. They are allowing us to do sophisticated things. And the beauty is you know when you are now coming and allowing engineers to use their skill set and to use the algorithms that they are that allows them to to explore things and to be creative that can bring blockchain to the totally next level and this is what we have already seen when we introduced for example power chain to some first engineers that was even before we did fundraising immediately I would say it was nearly 24 hours later than when we came out, hey, you can code in Golang, here are the tools and in JavaScript, in Java, etc., one um engineer immediately came and said, I have built um a a

completely decentralized private key recovery system in Golang and we said, how have you do that done that? And he said, yeah, because I was able to use algorithms that I wasn't able to use in, you know, in the smart contract space. And that's just, you know, I'm what we have seen so far is with the ability to open it up, allow all the engineers out there to develop and be creative, they can come up with completely new use cases that we haven't seen in the last 10 years in the blockchain industry. Yeah. Interesting. There's this argument that there's 13 million JavaScript developers around the world. Like Agoric makes this argument that now we have JavaScript on chain and so like those 13 million JavaScript developers can start

building on blockchains. you know, newswash, I don't think they're going to start building on blockchains for the reasons that I that I brought up earlier, but but also I think, you know, blockchain development languages, as bad as they might be, right, or as difficult as they might be to on board. Things like JavaScript, its vanilla form, are not great for for building blockchain applications because of all the kind of runtime behaviors, etc. that that are not great properties for a smart contract language where you want things to be like to run very deterministically and to run in a very predictable way.

Now things like Rust of course have made its way into the ecosystem because it's formally verified because it's like strongly typed etc and there's like very little room for error but like do we really want developers to start building applications using like languages that are not that don't have the security considerations? I'm I'm not not I'm not an expert in this field. So, but I do know that like I write in JavaScript and like it often throws things at me that I'm not expecting and you know a lot of people have sort of talked about JavaScript as really like being a bad idea for for building blockchain applications. Yeah. How do you how do you think I mean I can just tell you now what kind of adoption we see because of this you know opening up to all coding languages and we have EVMS on top. We

have teams building you know on EVMS on top. So it's not that we are you know uh not seeing also adoption in the web 3 traditional web 3 coding language style. Nevertheless a good example is uh a big corporate out of uh India. They are kind of one of the media giants in India 100 million subscribers. It's Shimaru Entertainment. They are kind of also the Netflix of India. And they had already for one and a half years worked on a new metaverse entertainment platform actually with smart contracts. Yeah.

with Solidity and smart contracts. And then they heard about us and they said, "Wow, um, we could theoretically really use your blockchain and use our JavaScript developers that we have in our office since 20 30 years and that are trusted that also know all our you know business secrets and really we trust them so much. uh they have actually worked together with a outsourced solidity team on you know the smart contracts of this new entertainment platform and we said yeah I mean you can try it out. We gave them all the tools and you know the documentation and in I think it was about a week after just a week they came back and said we have it already

deployed our whole big entertainment platform that we have built for one and a half years is already deployed on power chain with JavaScript and then we looked into it and I have to tell you it looks amazing and I was so far a little bit I don't want to say skeptic about you know metaverses but we Oh, I would say similar to me building in social for some years. We have not seen the adoption that we all wished for in the metaverse space. But their metaverse is actually one that I can see really working out. I mean they are going to go with us basically mainet or launching when when we are going mainet but it is the first metaverse that works so beautifully on a mobile phone for

example not only on a desktop and it is completely built with JavaScript and now they decided for now to not use smart contracts but really to plug it into the blockchain directly and it is amazing from the user experience. So, okay, I want to come back to this later, but yeah, maybe let's um talk about like the the power base layer and there's a few things you said earlier about how it doesn't compromise decentralization, etc. So, I'm curious like that that base layer. Can you can you describe how it works? What's the consensus mechanism?

How many validators are there? And how is it interacting with those applications? Do you have like for example in the Cosmos SDK we have this ABCI right which talks between the consensus layer and the application. So how are different applications different VMs whether kind of cryptoVMs or non-cryptoVMs talking to to that base layer. Yeah. Still I need to also say overall you know I'm not an engineer. Yeah. I'm not an engineer by background. I I I'm I'm talking more from a high level perspective. I would say after now eight years in web3 I have a good understanding of architecture but nevertheless uh you know in some if if we would really go deep deep deep then definitely my co-founder CTO would be the better better one to talk to

nevertheless I mean let's break it up um it is basic so we as said consider ourself more as a layer zerobased layer blockchain on which you can build any other blockchain layer one but without them having to have validators. I mean they have something that is a little bit you know could be considered as some sort of more instances yeah of their own uh virtual machine. We call them conduit nodes but overall you have this base layer taking care of security consensus.

We have um a signature algorithm that is uh quantum um secure or um definitely capable and already also used in other blockchains or known for its quantum security called Falcon. We also have developed an old one proper diary one that is also uh going to be implemented at a little bit later stage. So it's a base layer that is taking care of the validation and the security and the consensus is a brother of tenderment but we call it delegated proof of power and the core difference is that all validators earn an equal share of the rewards. And then you have

the delegators that are delegating to these validators. And let's assume you know you have one validator with 500 delegators and one validator with 100 delegators. Naturally the one with 100 will earn a little bit higher yield in the beginning because all share the same rewards all validators right. So but what we believe what will happen and we have already tested it and have kind of seen it there is an equilibrium after obviously mainet and a few weeks or a few days or few months an equilibrium between all of these validator nodes we have a set amount of validators so um we

start with 200 we will slowly increase to 400 and maybe later even to more but it's a set amount of validators nevertheless less because of the equilibrium. It is I would argue in some cases more decentralized than the pure proof ofstake mechanism because what we have seen I think also even in Ethereum is that some validators accumulate a lot of voting power a lot of staking power and and you could say also they are getting more powerful within the system.

So you can then argue how decentralized the system really is and in our case we believe that the mass behind will create this equilibrium and with a tenderment approach of a twoth3 that you need to overthrow the system um that it is very very secure. Okay. So the the the consensus algorithm relies on validators. those validators have somewhat of an equal voting power or at least uh their rewards are are shared uh in a more equal fashion. Does this practically affect their their voting power and what's the threshold? I'm just curious about this consensus mechanism

and like how it's really different from tenement. Well, it is I mean what Eddie has tried here is in in some ways to improve it also you know to make it more scalable and that's also a reason why we for example you know uh decided on not using elliptic curve as a signature algorithm because it is also computationally heavy and using something that is more lightweight but overall I mean the the really the the big difference is um this adjustment of um allowing or generating this equal share and the equal possibility to

propose blocks and also to share the reward between all of these validators. Now how much is the threshold? I mean we will see especially through the delegators how big the participation will be. But the good on a good note is the the costs to run the network and that was also very important for our team to build a blockchain that is super lightweight. So to run the whole network one validator node costs I would say between four to$5 a month up to let's say in a maximum likely $60 a month.

Yeah. If you compare this to Ethereum, I think there we are around $250 $300 a month. And if you look into Salana, it's a couple of thousand dollars a month. And if you look into Appto and Soy, I mean all the blockchains, the newer blockchains that are currently out there, they have heavy machines in place for validator nodes. And because the blockchain here is not doing the execution, it doesn't have a virtual machine itself. It's it's not intertwined with a blockchain in the sense of like Ethereum or Solana. Therefore, it is a very very lightweight blockchain and the validation of the whole blockchain network costs compared to Solana for example like one Solana validator note a year and therefore you

need to think okay how much does a validator for example also need to make per year you know in money to make it worth their effort and time and to secure the network and this is our goal to show that a blockchain can run at scale but actually with very very low hardware. Okay. Yeah. Interesting. And so let's now move up the stack. So like how do applications interact with the uh power base layer? So um now you have basically the virtual machine uh we call them um also VA layer and on this virtual machine layer you have um they can again

be framework agnostic can be EVM, Solana virtual machine, move more virtual machine or a software application and they plug into power chain and on top of them they have their own for example they can decide on their own gas fee model transaction model on power chain we don't have gas fee we only charge on the bits and byes level as 0 I think it's now 60 or 501 cent it's a very low uh amount of per transaction or per bite. Um and therefore they have a good range in which they can make money by having their own gas fee model, their own coin uh for the gas fees. And then

on top you have all these different other applications also with their own coin model and they're um they basically have to pay the fees of the of the layer one. uh but when they are sending a transaction without them really without the user really knowing that we are underneath because for them they use for example a bitcoin side chain EVM based bitcoin side chain that only uses bitcoin for gas fees and transaction fees for example right the user sends a transaction and without really knowing it sends it directly to power chain where it gets settled and where then the RP the dependent RPC node picks it up or conduit node RPC node picks it up and

gets it executed. So it's a I would say for the user we are an invisible blockchain infrastructure. They don't have to care about power and power coin. They don't have to have power coin. They only have the coin of whatever virtual machine they are using here. And and that's kind of beautiful. So every layer one can completely keep its brand focus on being a very good ecosystem to onboard amazing applications and obviously innovate in the virtual machine space. That's basically what they should focus on while we are their settlement layer and we are this unified truth layer for data storage transaction record and then the VAS basically or the

this layer ones are having their own truth model and a kind of a deterministic approach to figure out that we both basically that both have the shared truth. Yeah. The settlement layer and the execution layer. Okay. And so like so these these blockchains that sit on top of the power base layer they settle their own transaction. So the settlement happens does the settlement happen in their VM or does it happen at the base layer? At the base layer. Okay. Why is it happening? I mean like you could have why does this element need to happen at the base layer? Why couldn't it just happen at the consens at the at the application layer and because they don't have validator nodes you know they

are basically the the I know this is a little bit a different you know it's it's so new one has done it yet this way uh I would say our architecture mirrors a little bit more the internet architecture as this one communication layer and you have infinite processing layers on top and on top of them the whole digital world similar to this our architecture is basically the blockchain internet layer here and so they don't have to have validator nodes. We have the validator nodes. So they don't have even any operational cost. they can really focus on and our operational costs are as I told you very very low right one Solana validator node per year cost kind of and so they can just focus on being a very good execution layer

processing everything properly to their rules whatever their rules are but they don't need really to have the validators on their side everyone can run instances of their their truth their truth is open source stored also as basically their open- source code is stored also on power chain. So you can see exactly the rules each each layer one has to execuse execute on top and therefore there is this correlation between our truth of data and transaction record their truth of how they execute and then you can have run everyone can run an instance of their layer one truth. Okay. And the

where where is the data stored? So it does power base layer also provide data availability? Yes, it's basically power is a completely an a data availability layer with infinity data availability. So if you compare it to Celestia or aail you know all these data availability layers they are storing the data for a few weeks maybe a months but usually just a shorter period of time while power chain is really storing the data till eternity. Okay. I mean, so how you then handle like the bloat of the chain? I mean, if like power chain becomes the base layer for you know the majority of

blockchains let's say like then running those nodes would become quite expensive, right? I mean what how does that work? because we are not executing you know this is it's it basically it stays as lightweight as always and it can execute I mean we have now this number uh 300,000 TPS but this means 300,000 basically with one maximum two CPU core servers and the more CPU we would add or the validators would add the more powerful it actually can be um and therefore um a 300,000 TPS I would say is possible and we have already in test net obviously tested it out now out with kind of ease and um and that solves

you know I mean scalability in some sense is obviously also solved now on some layer 2s or you know in the Ethereum ecosystem and also some newer layer ones have crazy scale but what we believe what needs to happen is deliver crazy scale without having to have heavy validator notes. That's the you know this is basically what we have I think now also seen with deepseek right that was the surprising moment for everyone in the AI segment was how was it possible that someone was now able to run a large language model like deepseek on so little hardware and if you look back into the whole history of tech

innovations it was always like this only in the moment we were delivering crazy quality increase exponential quality increase while decreasing the cost for something exponentially like the mobile phone, right? The smartphone in the beginning super expensive. Now everyone can afford a 50 kind of dollar good smartphone that can do nearly everything like a little mini computer in your hand. And this is when you get it also to scale and mass adoption. And that's what power enables through its very lightweight blockchain infrastructure that doesn't care about the execution.

Every layer one is completely separated. You know they are all their own instances and layer one doesn't care what the other is doing. It can have interoperability between all of them naturally because they are connected through this one data truth on the base layer and they can connect through so-called conduit nodes but they have their own state. It's not like on you know the problem on this connection of this one virtual machine with this one blockchain is if you execute what let's say USDT trade smart contract everything has to be executed and that's you know making it so hard and hindering

scalability but here on this base layer it's like the internet you have on the internet Amazon web service Alibaba cloud Microsoft Azure on top of them you have the digital planet and you can add so many servers as many as you want. It will not hinder the internet in its scales. And that's basically the architecture that we went after. So how is it different from reststaking or other forms of shared security? Because like in in those model like in in restaking you know you have an AS that AVS does its own execution and that gets secured or settled uh to an underlying u to an underlying chain or at least like the the the

the state is secured by stake of an underlying chain is the difference here. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe delegate and you know it's just depot. Yeah. Um here you have still the delegators. Yeah. And you have definitely it is a blockchain. Yeah. So you have one block after the other. And uh I would say here you know the additionally the advantage is we have instant finality that was very important for us also to bring to to web 3 with this blockchain solution and therefore everything is settled instantly. So there is no reststaking in that case.

Yeah. Needed. Okay. So who's running the execution layer of the individual chains? They run it basically or not not only they I mean you basically you create your virtual machine you plug it in and then you know there are you know everyone can run instances of this and make sure you know everyone who is also having maybe a software application on top who wants to definitely make sure that uh the execution is done properly can run an instance and basically see that that that that the smart contracts are executed in the manner of this virtual machine. Right. Okay. But then it's a little bit similar to Ethereum

L2s then I think because it's like without a sequencer you know the the the the thing about there is no sequencer. Okay. So power chain is running the sequencer. Well there is no sequencer. I mean in that case uh you know we we don't have that. we really have only the pure you know uh data truth on power chain. Um yeah at the end you know a a blockchain or what you always need is you know this one set of truth of data and transaction record and the truth of the business logic right and and that's basically

that is coming deterministically kind of together here you know it's not always easy to find this one thing fits all answer because Actually it is more on power chain because we were looking into scalability and into delivering this one trust layer for data storage and security. This unified layer. We wanted to keep it as open for everyone to to to create these virtual machines in the manner they want. They can, you know, you can theoretically run it not as decentralized as as if you don't need it, you know, but you can upgrade your

virtual machine in your way to make it as trustless, decentralized as you want. But for example, if you are a you know a corporate and for you it is more important to switch on web three a you know you want to have immutable data storage immutable decentralized always available data storage. Yeah then you can use it but it's maybe not so important for you that you know even on the execution layer everything is so decentralized. So we leave it more up to the teams and to their use cases and to their needs to create as much additional you know decentralization as possible.

But from a data storage transaction record layer our solution is completely decentralized I would say because of the delegated proof of power consensus. Okay. Okay. So you're you're saying that the construction of power chain makes it such that it is suitable for applications that may need a sequencer or applications that may not need sequencing. So for example, if you're just running like some JavaScript application that's I don't know sorting to-do lists, right? Like it doesn't need a sequencer. The sequencing of transactions is not necessary and it's not crucial to the application. But if you're running a DeFi application, sequencing is very important because it it will have an impact on which which

account balances get updated first or in which order. And so the the what? Sorry. Yeah. Go ahead. Oh, no. Please. Sorry. I No. So So then what I'm what I'm saying is like because of this individual applications or VMs can choose whether like what sequencing configuration they want. Once I was reading your documents, it mentioned something about conduit nodes providing some some sequencing. Is that correct? Um again uh depending on yes what the different uh layer wants you know what they want. Yes. But what they want. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So so then applications can decide whether they need sequencing and if they do then they can implement say their own sequencer or utilize some of the infrastructure

that's provided by the conduit notes. Yes. Yes. There is utmost flexibility here. Yeah, that makes it I think so so interesting. We hope you know it it definitely we were prioritizing the flexibility for everyone to do whatever they want and decide how much decentralization they need and how to set it. puts a little bit I have to admit right a little bit more I mean framework agnosticness yeah puts a little bit more work yeah onto the ones who um who create their uh VA we have now basically these layer ones we have provided so far EVM layer ones also to teams that came

to us we said we have already you know created a EVM based uh layer 1 for if you want one we give you one for free And so so we have meanwhile 15 uh teams that took over some layer ones some EVM based layer ones on top but it's usually if you want to build a move VM or a Solana virtual machine or whatever a was based one then you can decide how decentralized how how you want to build it with what sort of you know sequencing if you want it. Okay, cool. And so then but then like would you agree then that the so the VA which is the verifiable immutable data application. So I guess

these are like those those blockchains that are built on power chain then they start to look a little bit like L2s right like if they're if the a VM is run say like offchain right it's being run offchain from from the consensus layer from the power chain consensus layer and then maybe they're running their own sequencer to me it starts looking like an L2 unless I'm missing something because you don't need a sequencer you know it's at the end really not needed and therefore and we don't have any sequences inside you know everything is ordered basically what comes in in in in in there is in the time and and therefore it's not in our case it's not there and it's also not needed to be

decentralized completely right okay so let let's just talk about the token a little bit and the utility of the the power coin what's the what's the role of the token and like I guess also how are applications right so like if you have an application say like some DeFi application or a DAX or like some L some layer one I guess you want to call it that is using a power chain like do they have to hold power token on their in their application to be able to pay for use of the chain? No, basically it happens a little bit all under the hood. So there is a because power chain also uses a new signature algorithm. Um you know you

basically we need to wrap things to make it really possible to uh be settled on power chain. Yeah. And let's say you use an EVM you know on top then it goes from the project the app that you're using the transaction goes paying basically in their crypto the transaction and gas fee and then it gets directly through a conduit node where it gets prepared to be settled on power chain and these conduit nodes basically have power power token. Yeah. And so on the one hand it's needed by the conduit nodes on the other hand obviously by the validators on the other hand by the delegators for then governance and voting and yeah for the

ecosystem also you need to pay when you're developing or when you're uh creating a VA your layer one basically you also have to create a VA ID and this needs to be paid also in power. Okay cool. Um yeah this has been really helpful. But I'm still like I guess I'm still grappling with the idea that these like how these are not just L2s. But I guess it's just a question of semantics. But yeah, if people want to learn more about Power Chain, they should read the white paper. The V2 white paper actually just came out like a couple of hours ago as we're recording this. Yes. And we tried actually to now with this new white paper because this is always the semantics. Yeah. Are on the one hand

when you're catering to the web 3 world, right? We have our semantics around it. Yeah. Even when you call something a layer 1, then everyone thinks a layer 1 is a layer 1 with own validators. Yeah. So um and then we figured out to also cater to the web two developer community and to corporates etc. We need really to create our own semantics in some some sense. Yeah. And that's why we have now the the new white paper that tries to bridge it to make it super easy to understand for all the web two developers and engineers out there still trying to explain the new semantics also to the web three developers and I definitely encourage everyone to give it a read. I think it's quite

interesting yeah new way describing tech any any interesting or sort of exciting things that are on the road map that people should be looking out for. Yeah, I mean we are hardcore shipping towards mainet and so far I mean you know fingers crossed you know how it sometimes is with tech and we have seen many big infrastructure plays um also postponing a little bit mainet here and there. In our case we plan to go somehow maybe end of Q2 beginning Q3 mainet live and still have to have a TGE before that. Exciting things are now that we have great builders. We have for example an amazing team also out of the telegram ton community that has taken over a ton EVM and their experience was basically

that there are so many great game developers and amazing you know also social products and projects in that are already building in the telegram real but they like ton to use it also in this ecosystem the coin but they would prefer to deploy their projects on a ton EVM and so this team decided to cater to this and so they have a ton EVM with already amazing projects and adoption um in their ecosystem. We have a high level team of crazy big brains PhDs uh from South Korea that have a bitcoin side chain on top of power. Then we have also I would say team that is building a

little bit kind of a gala system approach for the gaming industry as their own uh VA and layer 1 on top of power. And as I said, we see great corporate adoption like Shimaru Entertainment that they have already deployed this big new entertainment platform and with them already having 200 million subscribers, I would say the chances of this new entertainment platform with exclusive content with obviously also a metaverse where you can purchase land and NFTts and you can watch exclusive content in a digital cinema all together. They have very interesting features I would say in their metaverse and this will be the

first metaverse also on a mobile phone. Um so this is great to see that there are big corporates already deploying. We also have a corporate uh here out of the UAE like a SAP kind of a software as a service company but they have 7,000 clients and they have invoicing and and loyalty points and healthcare data storage etc where they are working with our technology and yeah it's it's it's good to see that yeah you know big corporates are already adopting it and um and besides the web three space yeah okay excellent well Melanie, thanks for coming on the podcast and telling me more, breaking my brain about about

power chain and uh yeah, look forward to learning more about it and seeing it go live. Yeah, soon soon. And I also have to say we have amazing backers. Yeah, I mean this was also very important for us, you know, to get some some really good and Tim Draper and Draper VC and Magros Capital and Alphabet and Redbe Adventures to name just a few and amazing angels. So we were very lucky to get some good backers already on board and but we are exploring this is the last you know thing now um how to move on now with funding and we have looked into the potential of going the public crowdfunding route and I think after

what we have seen in our space with hyperlquid and also all these amazing AI agents and virtuals and AI 16C and also all the meme coins in last year that there is a wish I would say for REIT to come in early again and we are currently exploring this as our way to do a TGE very excited about this and we have innovated something very cool we will introduce it soon to the web 3 space I think everyone is thinking about ICO 2.0 zero how this could look like and um how we can invent it in a new and solid and sustainable way. Tokconomics etc. are working on something that is we are very excited about. Thank you. Thank you.

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