Bringing Enterprise Blockchain Solutions Alive

Transcript

- this event of the enterprise blockchain working group of the crypto Valley Association I'm very thrilled and excited you have a good audience today of different showcases in the enterprise blockchain world let me quickly introduce the panelists today and one panelist is johannes include Dane from the Hamburg and he's taught by Tomas Nidal one of his students and and they

dialing in from Hamburg then we have chun-yin Lepik from the company encrypted from Geneva talking today with us about trade execution solutions then from Singapore we have a colleague my GK way from long edge ventures we have from the blockchain and center of the university of civic Claudio t-zone a professor of the crowd Arizona then Benjamin show from stacks as well in Singapore talking to us about Enterprise

of blockchain solutions in the digital asset exchange area and they add one word from UBS presenting today his insights on reach rate at Freight platform on blockchain solutions for small and medium enterprises today my co-moderator is maracas piano he's my co-chair as well in the enterprise prop chain solutions and as well they warmly welcome him and together with Jerome Bailey and who's our executive director from the crypto Valley Association and in the background we have Randy Hill who

is coordinating our speech here and this would be a very interactive session so we will have a lot of discussions and I would invite you as participants or viewers and of this of this virtual event as well to ask you questions you have at the very of your screen the Q and a button and if you have a question please don't hesitate to type in the question into the Q&A section and we made and as well die you in Tudor did you can ask your questions live to the audience here so don't hesitate to ask

us to be very interactive session well let me quickly just give you a quick update where we are with the enterprise blockchain solution of the group the valley association very thrilled that we are and have here an exciting group of a core team working with us on white paper on success factors for enterprise blockchain solutions this is really exciting work because they have from different industries a lot of people from the luxury good industry to voting industry through through finance industry everybody in there and it's really exciting that we work on at the

moment which we hopefully can everything goes as it should launch after the summer break and make it public to everybody and that is one of the key activities we do in the crypto Valley Association of in this working group and the price cocktail working group and apart from that I quickly want to hand over to Malraux VRS for working 50 universities on various research topics on the success factors of enterprise blockchain solutions and converting for that as well we have today at home which we want to likely to invite you to as well that as know what

and of topics would be research in the future but more quickly want to say something about it yes thanks Dennis so for us so in the last months we have been collaborating with different institutions and universities to basically identify potential students and topics which we could further research with and then we can bring back to this group as input which allows you know corporations to then you know make more educated decisions about which broke chains they want to use what kind of solutions are out there what are the hurdles kind of they have to overcome and so basically we have put together one a list of about

you know twenty topics that we would like to research but obviously we cannot do all twenty of them at the same time so when the pooling will show up you can basically select one topic for each section so one is financial industry the other one is supply chain so we hope to get feedback from everybody here to get the steer what are what is most interested well you guys are most interested in and that we can do some research with the schools we also have established with the help from the University from comm board from Hondas kind of a list of about sixty other universities which are doing currently work and research on on blockchain so we

will also make that available to the members through the CBI infrastructure soon so I think you know that's that's kind of all I wanted to update so I'm very glad if they're happy if you can provide feedback and rally will now start with the polling you can have time to do that throughout the session and so we'll be thank you already now thank you excellency so what is the working group all about the group is we need to exchange with corporates and universities about the success factors the business aspects behind blockchain solutions technically I think there are a lot of solutions are there technically we have

proven that blockchain and distributed ledger solutions are valuable and work but of course the question is how do we bring such solutions and networks alive how what is needed from a business perspective to really make these solutions a success and in that context I would like today that we could perhaps see if different showcases around the world and I would like to start with with you johannes to perhaps quickly introduce us to the initiative that the Technical University of Hamburg is

currently doing and yeah so please to vote is up to you thank you very much Dennis yeah hello from homework I'm sitting here together with one of my students Timo Shanaya and we are both from the Institute for technical logistics which means we are actually concerned with all I would say technical engineering topics of logistics and supply chain and blockchain being one of them a really important topic of course and we have cream currently working a lot on blockchain solutions for supply chain and logistics as you have heard

blockchain has got various instances for applications in proxy and logistics such as tracking of objects but also blocked supply chain finance and quite interesting and important topic for us is at the moment the introduction of blockchain standards to logistics and supply chain so as you all know supply chains and logistics is very much about standards so for example you can probably remember the the 40-foot for the food container in maritime logistics which has been done in the 60s and has decreased

harbour costs by about 90% so and so everything in broken everything and supply chain and logistics very much about about standards and we have been evaluating the existing block chain standards for supply chain and logistics and we have been doing also a small prototype on that and that's the reason why Tim was here with me because he just finished his master's thesis about that and we evaluated maybe you have heard Peter standards the block chain in transport aligned standards which is a block chain Alliance in in the u.s.

mainly with a lot of big Logistics groups where they define common or standards data models and data structures and how to introduce tracking and location throughout the whole supply chain and yeah that's basically what we have been doing for the last year and probably I think we will introduce some of our results later on in the discussion yes that's very very good thank you so what are the kind of key findings you found in your in your current in the current thesis on understand this what

are what and how would all be defining those standards how would you describe that so what the tenets are mainly about and you know anything that I already said our about location so how do we get location information onto the blockchain so what's the standard from from the ITA associate arm this was give a structure on how to implement for example Street in a city named something like that really basic but in my opinion really important for a standardized approach and how they

basically did it was they created in JSON objects or data structure on how to implement those logistical information and how to approach and storage on the blockchain at the end what we did was we build a prototype just to showcase that standard on an ethereal blockchain and we found some positive and negative aspects about the standards itself but I think that's up for discussion later on

yes so it's basically a data structure and how scared logistical information onto the blockchain okay good thank you so another company group that is probably already for the oint prototyping and then has real solutions and supports many many over areas a patient stock exchanges for digital assets that is tax and I'm very well very pleased to welcome today Benjamin Shaw will give us a quick introduction on stacks

thank you very much Dennis good morning and good afternoon everyone's nice to meet you my name is Ben I'm from stacks Co father a managing director basis Singapore so stacks is a company that has deployed Lifetouch infrastructure consisting of the underlined stacks blockchain the layer of our API functionality to connect to external platforms and also a range of front-end user interfaces that we have developed to allow our clients to be able to use the top change effectively so our clients has 10 is for financial institutions some of them are National Stock Exchange's global investment banks and also asset managers had the hundreds of billions of dollars in trading so what they do

with our infrastructures that they are able to now enjoy real-time trip confirmation and reconciliation on the shet ledger across multiple participants they are able to enjoy instantly versus payments when it comes to transactions and of course the use of smart contracts for certain automated transactions if and or' based on conditions that are already written into the program so this is how we are hoping to be able to bring about with on the real world Enterprise implementation of the blockchain and we'd be happy to discuss more activity session thank you thank you very much I totally different use case we are it's a case that I'm cryptid as a consultancy

company in Geneva is as well consulting and supporting in in the trade execution area for commodity traders where of course you have a hub in Geneva and yeah that is a Korean Lobby and perhaps it would quickly introduce that initiative to us sure hi Denis hi everyone first of all thanks to the two CEA to organizing such events I think it's helped promote the adoption of blockchain worldwide so it's very useful thank you for organizing this events my name is Julian I'm leading the

blockchain practice of consultancy specialized in digital transformation and an blockchain where we advise traditional players on how they could use the option to optimize their business processes and the case I want to talk about today is Kevin T's Coventry's is an initiative led by ADM Bunge Cargill Dreyfus Glencore and Kafka to modernize global trade operations basically over the past two years they have got together they together initiative in order to develop a blockchain platform that will help them to optimize their current processes just to give you a bit of background for those of you that are not familiar with

the industry two main fact let's say that over the past 20 years the technological advancement in this industry has been introduction of emails after that not much has been done and when we talk about commodity trading we more talking about the day trading documents instead of trading commodities so when you put these two facts together you start to realize that maybe there is something wrong today users too in order to ship the more than 11-thousand ships that we see on a yearly basis for the agree commodity industry users are spending enormous amounts of time exchanging emails copy pasting the information of the different vessel of the different

commodities and it's a very very manual process it's very prone to error it's very repetitive and it's absolutely not efficient so based on that realization some players in the industry some of the biggest actually decided to get together in order to create a digital platform that will optimize this entire process and that's how the commenter's initiative was the worst form the idea is to use block blockchain technology in order to decentralized the the process and act as a single source of truth so that the different parties that are on board on the platform they can exchange document in a safe and secured way in order to optimize the processes the

platform enabled them to get end-to-end visibility on tasks that are today on us but today they are completely blind on it so it will help them to save a lot of time save a lot of cost and focus on more value-added services and that's that the main verse the main point regarding event is the product product is going to live in July of this month and after more than two years of iteration and production hopefully it will be a great success we hope so too I think yeah this was now an initiative that was strongly driven by actually the companies the commodity traders themselves

now let me bridge to another initiative that is slightly different but was mainly driven by the financial industry and I'm very welcome very pleased to welcome be at one word from UBS who will quickly introduce us the betrayed initiative yeah a lot everyone I'm happy to to be here represented on the panel and give a bit insight on the initiative which is called we trade for the ones which do not know the platform it is we trade is a consortium and which it was initiated and owned by twelve international banks with a large footprint across Europe and the goal of

we trade is basic to enable corporates to trade simply quickly and trust fully with each other as just alluded to in the in the prior explanations the reason why we did initiate that platform was the trade is actually giving quite a bit of challenges or by the international trade quite a bit of challenges to the for the participants across the value chain and just to give you a few numbers there is the so-called 1.5 trillion trade finance step which is huge number and which is nothing else than to show what is the value of trade which

actually was sought to be done or couldn't be done because the parties couldn't get enough liquidity to finance those transactions oricon getting of security to avoid any losses in the trade and the reasons is because trade is super8 heterogeneous environment about in in a normal trade transaction they can be up to 20 involved parties for a traditional crowds which to actually mitigate the risks of default or non-payment there on average about 36 paper-based documents involved and it's just mentioned before that that's a highly manual time-consuming and for that reason also pretty costly

workload and for that reason if you look at all of global trade there's only about 15% of that volume is therefore being protected or risk mitigated by the available products which are on the market and that's exactly here where we trade actually kicks in the goal here was not to simplify per se paper-based process which is in place like to come and complement that and come with an entirely and trans digital and very simple solution which allows those trading part is to make trade much more secure and simple and just preview what

are the main features which are there involved number one is there is an interactive in the shared repository of those trade agreements or the trade transactions which you kind have engaged with in so basic set of emails or papers which are going back and forth they can go on the platform they can specify the transaction which is then encrypted in a smart contract and which can be reviewed and approved by the two parties which are within the trade and then based on those agreements there is the functionality number one which is not to settlement based on the conditions and just quickly explain afterwards what

that means and where the power is of the smart contract in the blockchain solution and based on that there's a payment assurance so basically if the buyer doesn't have enough money or in the worst case has gone out of business can be sure to the salary still get in the money for goods he was shipping out and then last but not least he can finance that transaction so if you have payment terms for example 60 days a man after delivery the seller can help refinance and just maybe very briefly how that auto settlement function works which space the basis of it all so imagine you agree with someone to enter

into a into a transaction so you've basically by let's say a machine from someone you would then go on the retreat platform you kinky and the type of the goats on what machine is this what's the cost of the machine so basically the invoice when should it be shipped and basically how many days do you have to pay and as soon as you have looked at in you create and activate that smart contract and then the whole shipping information and as well like further data you can source from other participants is being fed into the smart platform and I basically imagine you read at the door like DHL UPS's Comenius is handing out the machine to you you

sign off electronic from the terminal and that isn't triggering automatically the settlement of the of the in mode so in other words for the seller he exactly knows that when he's shipping the machine is getting the money the pre agreed times Wireless for the buyer for him it's no risk he has to prepay or he has to pay if there's no goods delivered that this being assured on both sides and this is the key value proposition how we basically make that process which was taking days previously I'm just in a few clicks in a few minutes to set it up Thank You ver yeah I think it seems to

me and I hear all these use cases that replacing very paper-based and and slow process by something that is decentralized and standardized and blockchain technology or distributed ledger technology behind it and if it seems to be a very very key use case for a couple of these enterprise solutions that I mean at the end it's all about that in the price book chain and solutions are of course about process optimization and I'm very pleased as

both welcome she came from long hair it's long hat probably justify yourself it is it is an accelerator in blockchain solutions in Singapore and of course enterprise blockchain solutions are as well a key topic that and your company's focus isn't it yes absolutely so hi everyone and she came from long - Church we are a nation focused blockchain accelerator as well as investor and so far we have accelerated about 18 companies all of them raised a total of the above 18 million or so so in terms of enterprise blockchain it has always been a focus

for us because we believe that the adoption by the prices is one of the directions that can bring this blockchain industry to a more mature or mainstream stage that's why about 20 to 30 percent of all the company accelerator are invested in actually are in this a b2b enterprise space and I look forward to sharing about some of these insights or how some East team with you during this panel okay thank you very much okay and of course it would be not an enterprise block since workshop from the group EE and we would not have to academia involved and apart

next to the Technical University of Hamburg we have a small cloudier from the blockchain center of the University of Zurich and I think one of the topics that you are always researching is how to bring enterprise book change solutions alive isn't it yes so to me the most important things that in a way relate to many of the key factors that were mentioned before in this form of introduction one of them is how to ensure that actually centrally say this centralization in this system is good and healthy in a way because one

but always just because we are proposing a blockchain based solution claim that this is a decentralized implementation of our data storage but at the end of the day when we see the data when we see how the system is being deployed would recognize that a like it happened with the first generation of for example or with some of the consumption objects that are out there we realize they're heavily centralized so the question of the blockchain comes are you really having a blockchain that is trustworthy as you may assume that you've got and on the other hand the second pillar this is one of the things keeping the synchronization they

designing the right incentives to achieve that researchers developing sophisticated analytic tools to live it up from the data that we're storing beside a couple of times now we are transforming our own paper records into digital ones but actually this allows us to do automated intelligent systems to do decision-making processes or to create early warning indicators and also to understand in other ways the healthiness of the system and you just mentioned the famous buzz words of 2019

I think ecosystem as I see we have two showcases today that really are already alive and - that are going Ally for I'm a showcase or a pilot face so my question now - to Ben and baya would be probably when you look back you launched these solutions now already or your solutions already now a couple of months ago or even years ago what in menu look back what were key success to really make your solutions a success so that they that they are used by multiple parties and by multiple players

then parts what what would would you say I guess the one of the most important things that we did was to be able to integrate many of the assistive technology platforms that the institutions are already using tooltip' blockchain so what we did instead of replacing the car in front end that they are using so just an example one of the platform states lab today is integrated to a trading platform the trading platform the most or in fact the majority of the asset managers are using where they are placing treats so this does the trading platform that they are really using today they are already used to it and we all know that the trading should always appear always occur okay on the centralized trading and Judis

already mature and established so we thought we placing that however okay we are allowing this trip information to flow directly to our blockchain infrastructure through some form of integration technical integration and that allows them to still have the real time of half-circle high frequency algorithmic trading on the front but yet on the back okay they are able to enjoy the efficiencies of the blockchain where in this case you know their pin point was every single broker or SME nature or you know Clearing House that all the entire value chain was on a different ledger different system different time zone sometimes and of course handling different asset classes different currencies such that many times this entire treatment consolidation is a

manual process so we were able to isolate the pin point the pin point is you know the manual operations in the back-office costing a typical company midsize company about two thousand man hours a month right so we are able to put all of these okay into a very focused box whereby you know these tricks we still have on the front but now on the back the entire network of brokers you know clearing houses custodians they can now be on the same ledger it should be the ledger whereby they will all be able to see the information in real time and therefore with some form of computing they are able to reconcile it's race instantly saving them thousands of man-hours each so in other words long story short is you're able to

integrate some of the logistic processes but also the existing technology into the blockchain I think that's keeping key to us and was key or is a key success factors to make we trade a global platform yeah I think the key success factor is obviously you need to solve a real customer problem because there should obviously be an incentive for the for the end user to use the platform that it will get adopted and so how we start with it was really and I'll start with the pain points and like the user personas so

typically the Design Thinking start and then as part of the further refinement kind of really just focus on the on the key problem and try to simplify as much as possible because it's also optical in the area of trade it's a very heterogeneous it's a very complex environment and if you want to solve all the problems in one go be able for sure not reach the rich finish line so we were really focusing on on let's say the righty point and if you look now like equally what you heard before what where the costs for for a company doing these

processes we just looked at how smaller or let's say a midsize companies but can also be large companies how they're functioning and what effectively a loss of a transaction is costing to them just maybe small example so if if a company is dealing with many counterparties and you can also see that the sales losses which are being experienced across different countries they vary but they're still in the mid single digit percentage size and that means if for example a company is losing 100,000 in uncollected receipts if they're occurring at the two percent profit margin it means they have to sell

five million more in goods just to make up for that 100,000 loss so this is actually quite the challenge and it's quite an effort but like I said today given the the complexity of the existing offerings that was just not possible to to handle like a protection for that same so kind very simple the value proposition you have to come up with has to be straight very straight forward it has to be very simple and you have to be able to show it in some very simple numbers that's kind of the number one and then of course number two is you need to start with the critical mass as well when you go to marketing in that

space particularly because trade is fadeev per default international so you have to basically really sufficiently large natural network behind you that there's also significant impact on the companies when they start start to use that product so convince or start with the very tangible and the very concrete use case keep it simple as much as possible but that it has a clear value proposition and then get so fetch sufficiently large crowd behind you that it also makes sense in terms often of an adoption in reality for the end-user

thank you yes you have various enterprises in your in your accelerator program and so succeed some fail so what would you say are things when you when you decide in what kind of companies you're investing or you're taking in under the umbrella of your accelerator what the key things that you watching out for yeah yeah exactly so it's a bit different from I think my perspective will be slightly different from whatever I'll be sharing here which is like you are already building this relevant solution for us uh we are more concerned about how to pick the right teams and

picking the right teams comes out to picking the right people so we're startups we believe that people are still a most valuable asset and why we say that because firstly the team needs to know the right of people within the industry after we find the most successful startups at once either your link from the mystery where you're trying to solve the problem off and that means that you know the people really well so we have a starting point or you're like this development where sales and it also means you understand the problem truly well unlike you know perhaps if if a company is let's say more focused on ideology of the project on technology and they think okay this

is a very good potential use case but they builded before speaking to potential customers they build it before knowing about the details of the endpoint that is often a red flag for us so we find that domain experienced will be that number one that leads to my second point is if you're from the relevant domain XP with the experience or perhaps you have advisors or founders who helped you with it it also helps you be very clear on the pop the detail and how do you solve it because often blocking is not the only issue in it to address the problem I think like many of us saying here like

in distance digitizing from paper to did that process right so you need to know the end-to-end gap of like from this current state to get to your imagined best seamless blockchain based in what all the guests that are needed right who are all the players that need to work together to make it happen often if it's from an industry such as so if you're looking like food supply chain or goods it's gonna a great college your healthcare is kind of things when your physical things you need an IOT device track across the all the players follow for you to scan and so on whereas if it's something that's already fundamentally digital such as like

financial applications it's slightly easier because technically the products already electronic you just need to intro cognize them on the back end or you're really running a platform let's say to manage trades and you just want you to token either on the back in the digital representation is much easier and then finally on the team as well a good team would also demonstrate their they're able to execute once you have the connections yeah product then you are able to deploy and execute these solutions effectively science what what you mean by execute right for enterprises typically with their amount of resources and size they can easily

just build a solution on their own or they can go ahead and acquire a whole company why should they engage a start-up to offer their services for such ease after that means that compared to these alternatives they want something that is low risk easy to enter and they are able to use it very quickly so that's advantage of you have to be able to demonstrate that very quickly show the ROI and how it's getting those benefits and pluses of course if you can make it as a really seamless experience no integrated con systems like one and has mentioned yes way to do this is often you know secure some kind of LOI

or pilots and anyone's able to show that show the progress then we convert to a full-time deployment so stem from a team to recap right you know the people you get to know the problem so they're very suitable product and then you execute based on that okay you mentioned a very important thing is it's the people that need to drive it forward it's as well people with division to have it so so Julian I bet emerging that to be very very difficult in that consortium I like you have described I mean she can't just mentioned I mean basically the enterprises can do it all themselves and and you have this project in a very very competitive

market I know the trading market as well and you had the prime of the prime commodity traders I mean they claim cause the biggest traffic gurus and so they were all there how was it to manage all these these large enterprises and get them aligned on balance in duration difficult as you can imagine consortium initiative I've always the same facing the same issue in the room until you get to an independent legal entity you have stiff competitors in the same room they might agree to work on a very small project on a very specific school scope but in TN outside

of this room they will still be competitors so you need to make sure that the vision that you have and the value proposition that you offer will be relevant for all the different users around the table I think what what has been key here is to make sure that adoption was going to be the only metric of success so they needed to solve the problem yes for themselves initially because they were the one launching the initiative but they knew as well that without the network effects if you don't have the other participant on board if you don't do an initiative by the industry but also for industry then in the long run you're going to fail so there they quickly understood that even though they might be the brightest or the best or the biggest or the you name

it in the end they all facing to some extent the same issues and in order to solve them efficiently you need to find a solution that will be adopted by a very by a very large network in order for the the benefits to become tangible because if you only build your your solution even though if you might be card Leal or anyone if you do only one using it it will just become an internal system and then you will still need to connect to the outside world so the key here is to to make sure that you're able to with the people outside of the consortium initiative yeah I think that is the key thing I mean you need to find the common commonality behind different parties that everybody is suffering with

I mean Beata just mentioned similar talking about and so I imagine johannes and t mode that is the standardization that you were talking about that you are researching at the moment is exactly going into the right the same direction so centered cessation is probably missing and your initiative is now helping here to get some some common standards on blockchain to across the different companies yes I mean standards and standardized processes it's always is always a key success factor and logistics and supply chains

so all this gentle decentralization and all these networks and all these consortiums are anyhow present in logistics and create supply chains we have a lot of suppliers sometimes pyramids of the OEMs with different tiers of suppliers and if you want to assure data flows across all these tiers across all these stages of supply chains it's rather important to have standards so and that's also the reason and missing standards are also

the reason why transparency is such an issue for supply chains so and transparency is also the topic which is often related to block chain and logistics and supply chain world and the question is now how we can achieve that because if you have so many different suppliers you need to integrate different IT systems with different data structures and align everything so that data can flow throughout the whole supply chain you can track objects throughout the whole supply chain and this is not possible if you don't apply any standards for that so what yeah exactly perfect what I

wanted to add for that because I really enjoyed what she K said because I think the most important thing for venturous is probably get to know the people and get to know the problem but for myself I had the same experience facing standards because for many of the for example we are coming from and logistical expect perspective many of the people don't really know how they can implement blockchain to solve their problem and it's the same approach that the by TA for example I'm spoiling spoiler spoiler in AU the results of my thesis but what

we basically found out was that they are they aren't really aware of what the actual problem with block chains regarding through supply chains is because what we found out is that interoperability between block chains isn't really covered a main finding was that the standards weren't technology agnostic because they were faced on private networks like hyper layer fabric and we tested it on prototype with aetherium and found out that it wasn't simply convertible and I think that that's in the same category as I think

she can put it and be aware of the problem you're actually trying to solve and I think interoperability is for block chains one of the biggest key factors in the future because for what I believe and for what my company I'm working for change live in Hamburg is believing that there's not the one single block chain that will be the main factor for implementing that technology around the world but there are many specific cases and many different tasks you can solve with the blockchain and different blockchain and

I think to conclude and to concluded that standards at least the newest or the earliest ones aren't really adopting a problem or aren't really assure aware of the problem blockchain is facing and yet it I think a good point for the whole perspective like get to know people but also the problem and I think that add to what the previous people already said it's a very good point I mean you just mentioned interoperability and and I think that is that is for of

scaling of solutions and forms a big problem because I think there is not the one platform that everybody has because personally I think the real benefit of blockchain solutions is that it is decentralized that it is the market participants that are defining together the standards but still have a certain in dependency on technology platforms on these things so interpret it he becomes a really success key success factors for the entire ecosystem and I just saw that we don't have that as a topic on our

research poll but we have many many other topics on the research fall so please for the audience go to the poll and and as well tell us what kind of research topic shall we do together with the universities from the Crypt of any perspective and research there and I think we have as well a question on scaling and exactly so maybe just a first point you know how quickly we will chat my email if you have additional topics you would like to research send it to me the poll itself cannot pick up interactive text that's kind of number one I will chat that in a minute and then as you said that is we had a

question from Alexander filleth of which was kind of one which we know from you know many years how creative is scalability and throughput of the protocols in the enterprise blockchain space I think you know some of them you guys may be answered or radio but it would be good to kind of get an understanding I think sometimes you know we have products and services on the blockchain which are decentralized and potentially the speed is actually not as critical as we think but the other services some product where you know obviously it's very important to have speed and scalability so I would like to kind of hear from you guys what do you think and answer Alexander's question I mean specially in training I think it is

[Music] yeah so basically I do a coma whose phone is definitely depending on the use case so I don't think we are going to challenge the front entry execution well I still think that would be hindered by trading platform set by trading I mean financial markets trading okay stock market trading etc however what we have done so far is scalable enough for the b2b settlements what we have done so far is we have beautiful opportunity can handle 4,500 transactions per second and that essentially is wide enough powerful force or use cases there will be fit involved in so far don't think that a lot of the trade settlements actually handle on a batch or next phases yeah so

therefore I do think that what we have in terms of our cross payments from b2b perspective is good enough from an information flow perspective is also good enough but therefore we also do not want to get into the area of trading transactions where you can easily we definitely easily find other more mature technologies that do not require the advantages of the blockchain yeah anybody else you know I think I don't know maybe trade finance or other you know arrears of solutions we have her because I definitely think this is probably different requirements for different groups

yeah maybe can something say to trade finance so obviously as mentioned before it's super depending on the use case and trade finance imagine people have been used to that process taking days before so even if they're still taking five seconds or 10 seconds until you confirm the transaction back that's more than good enough for that use case so based on that perspective it was also good one because there is still enough time you can take to confirm transaction you mentioned it Julian mention it genna's mention it you have today very

time-consuming use cases in this supply chain and Oh straight execution or trade execution and of course you are now replacing those ones so just a beauty lecture based electronic flows and what do you see that we are coming in the future probably add some limitations that we need to and if yes what could be those kind of limitations I don't know Julian you you have not been yet life but what's you you yes so what we see use cases definitely is not only the use case that you're trying to solve it's

also the benchmark that you setting up to yourself as there if you previews target was days and moving it to seconds or minute by definition you have you have a better mental solution for the market so that will drive reduction so that that's what the scalability I think what's more interesting is for the interoperability itself so I think everyone here on the table we're using potentially different blockchain protocols no one knows who is going to be the winning protocol if there is to be one in five to ten years and the fact that for some time we need to build bridges between the different platform in order to offer an end-to-end services to the client if I look at the way that

Cavendish is going to do trade execution but that we need to connect to a platform that does trade finance that needs to be bridges built between the different platform in order to really create this I'm going to use it ecosystem where the while you have an end-to-end experience from the user so this is where we see that the different players need to collaborate in order to make sure that this is not the data is not lost because if you put in something on a blockchain to then go off platform to go back to another platform then you have to feed the entire purpose of what you were trying to achieve in in the first place so connection between the the different platform is going to be

key in order to make sure that the the progress that we make in one area can be done for the entire process maybe I just just want to add one comment to a children said yeah I mean you mentioned the ecosystem I really would have to echo on that because we start with a used case but there are loads of additional services which can increase the value add for the participants and we just take for example you have a container and Orson trait you want to make sure you can basically track that and then you can link some some financial flows to that but in order to make it even more valuable you want to

insurance on it or you want to add some let's see some IOT data on it and for that it's super critical that this can work together with with other market participants or with other blog chains the true value if you look forward a bit more into the future you can only unlock when these different chains or ecosystems can effectively talk to each other and and and augment each other another key problem I mean when we see in the future we need to be interoperable between these different platforms to get scheduled I think we can conclude on that one of course that means as well so there is the technical

Julian mentioned as well at the end when you travel from one platform to another platform yes as well the legal framework aspect you all have initiatives that you're working on and of course the legal framework around it I mean it is all about Freight so there is a moment where you are agreeing on a deal and that has that has somebody needs to pay is and and that of course is always a legal framework that need to do in your new initiatives how how difficult was it actually to set up such legal frameworks

between the parties and what could you give us suggestions for future projects of that I know if you want to start on that engineer Maps sorry can you repeat a question yes on legal frameworks so yeah I would say that it's roughly actually following the similar legal frameworks that the institutions are already abiding by I mean there's a few use cases that are here today they are already in the market with the topic

capital market in life in my area or for trade finance with beer right so these are already well established operational protocols so I do see that you know because we are dealing with good actors and credible is the tuitions just to hand the linkage actually see the same way as before just at their handling in a much quicker fashion so in the legal primo is actually more facilitating okay for the legal representation and credibility of the transactions you basically building on the existing one and then replacing the backbone yeah is that as well the case with other ones that you mainly say we are using the existing both of trait and legal rules around it and just

replace technology behind would you share that shikai Julian I can chip in a little bit based on what we have seen from the startups there usually isn't some sort of license or a new legal framework that you try to go for and that's typically kind of a killer for startups if you need to come up a whole new financial regulation framework or you to apply for license for a long time before you can even get going right so what typically is the easiest path to get started is to simply be you know the technology partner for a certain established player and then after that from there you can

start to look at where can you venture into if you want to become an entity yourself so one of our startups in the energy industry for example he had some clients and he just put up settled the the trades with function and then he later on got certification from one of the international green energy bodies because he's been energy trading another one simply worked with for example like UNICEF kevie for the vaccines distribution so this is from the so they they do not need to have to go film because then they operate within the bounds this is on these established organizations mm-hmm okay

you watch I think we have another question we do yes basically Angelica be inside the question rally is going to Cle give her access to to tell us herself or question wait for that hi yeah and my question is about like very basic non blockchain problems when it comes to intro they'll operate bility when I listen a little to some input from the Singapore the Starks as well from Jude yes like when

different parties have to work together even like he's in a company which is a little bit larger it's all finality the competition about how the process money's has been sold off anything born person language to that you know like the language it's called or a data model is how have you soul is that like within your different blockchain project how has been the governance process everyone talks about in centralization but like this in until it's also kind of decentralized and working together how did that work is the state a

standard position things yes I think yeah how did we come over that probably a dominant market player is dominating others in a group and say it's well the standard has to know my way I don't know Julian you probably had the highest competition in your group it's it's a good question in the sense that when you when you're trying to build it you need to make sure that the language that you're going to use so not necessarily the data language but also the business process itself you going to speak about the same thing maybe you call it vessel name or someone is going to call it the

name of the ship so you need to make sure that you you use the same data standards to talk about the same things the view that you will have someone dominant to impose within a group it's not that obvious I will say you will in the end these people have been doing business for many many many years together and they understand each other already so they might be minor tweaks in the way that you call something but already creating a standard or harmonizing the the way you you use the data was not the most difficult part like you do it by consensus so it's a typical blocks any way of doing it as well we define the

consensus mechanism on among the different users initially this is how we going to call these very specific aspects and you cannot really impose it to the right thing this is my way or the right way because you need to make sure that everyone is going to use it in the end so I think we go back to the point that if you want to do something new it's good but we need to bring value directly to the future users and in order to do that we need to be disruptive but not too much from a business standpoint because if you if you're ready imposing blockchain then you imposing a new way of doing it then we choosing something new on a larger scope it's too difficult to cope so you're going to start small on this one anybody else to comment on the problem

of languages and the problem of aligning different people who think that one of the easier things that we can do as a start is to first use some of the common standards necessarily up there so I do know that new stuff is coming up from the token space but for existing capital markets or enterprise solutions that's usually this use of the ISO standard anyway in messaging transactions between enterprises so it's not just financial institutions by even programming language for some but the standard way to define the computer date and time yeah so all these ISO standards really out there that we could use as the base reference for the messaging transactions between enterprises one

into other so that this could be a common base point then over a fever over pure time thing to be lucky to see a good spirit of collaboration so far between multiple enterprises such that we are able to come together and if there's any modification or improvement needed so far yes always been quite generally receptor as know as first base reference was from something that was already existing so as easier to pick up I had totally agree with that so when you have something that is already existing and you can make the analogy and say okay well you know this in this new solution is now replacing this in this process I think that's a key that's a key that makes it much more

easier to describe their entity we have now heard a lot about consortium I mean a lot of these initiatives that you were talking about they were developed in consortiums is the consortium t26 the key success factor for getting reach because at the end it's all platforms and platforms are only as successful as they get reach as they get as many participants on the platform there are many platforms really are successful its consortium the the right business model to bring Enterprise blockchains

solutions alive are there as well other solutions or other models to bring such solutions alive what do you think what's your opinion on that claudia was reflecting on what you say well actually if construction you also take the Western is the problem with the consortium is that of governance so from that point of view leaving these kind of solutions or granting them to another organization perhaps it is a more sane

idea because otherwise what you what was mentioned before regarding a keep all the Masters is managed so it's not a party organization in a way that's more independent this always a good approach to that and which brings today today point rice before that is the tension that exists between going fully into it fully the centralized system which you do not control anything like a with

respect to things that are completely built around like code or nature like solutions and what I will say is that it's going to really depend on the business model the business area I think that both sweet they cut their own use cases in many of them having a fully decentralized approach and even a third-party glob check it doesn't make any sense okay thank you your highness and auntie mo what kind of model do you think you want to establish to bring your your initiative alive are you thinking about opening a consortium or

is it a different approach you wanna take so basically as a university we we don't we don't think about offering a consortium as such but small like building up the expertise of evaluating different blockchain standards and comparing these to each other's who we see basically us as a more some kind of a neutral observer and consultant providing companies especially providing logistics companies with the necessary information if they want to get involved in the blockchain space so it's not for us about setting up a business model or

something like that it's more we yeah we see as a facilitator for blockchain knowledge and especially in logistics and supply chain area for companies who want to to want to know a bit more about blockchain and help them to evaluate if it really makes sense for them to adopt some kind of option model yes for doing university I would totally agree and to rather take in consulting part in it because business models are not the best fit for a university or for a research company and but I can also answer from a different perspective

because I'm my company that is working for a small start-up it is working in the blockchain space called chainsaw here in Hamburg we are actually working in different console for different prod projects but what I figure out is that when people come together to figure out how to come up with a business model akin culture could be a good idea too especially if your state funded if the country you're in is actually it's encouraging you to do research and to

come up with new models for a new technology the console Cheree is a really good part - really good at you to bring something alive but when you found an idea or product or you actually want to bring something to the market and to bring real value behind the idea I think having too many partners is not productive anymore and I think there's a small step or there's a line to draw between having a consortium and having a lot of different views and maybe a lot of expertise and on the other hand

having an agile company or a July startup to actually bring something to the MA record and to actually be able to focus on one specific problem that you want to solve and I think the more people you have obviously your expertise will increase but also it will slow down the process and I think for most of the blockchain technology or for most of the projects or business ideas nowadays they won't need a big company behind it to develop the idea but the browser has an agile team and an idea that can scale

with becoming more mature so I think there are advantages to both of them and I think there's a reason to have both like a company and a controller yeah but I think that is developing is what you say successful yeah so what I my

perspective is that it depends on the use case and what benefits you're trying to bring all right so if the benefits like many of our fellows have said you know is a transparency in the standardization between players then I'd consortium makes a lot of sense for some of the other missions where it's it's basically one use case and you're serving somebody Enterprise who functions as harm already so simply kind of like offering that digitization solution tokenization solution to that platform is itself it's like kind of forming a mega consortium because they're ready handling so many players from my multi-sided market place or at least one example here is what

our early startups offer wallets so they created a tokenization standard or theorem actually but they also brought this to enterprises to create new business models or ask for assets so for example they tokenized tickets to the UFA World Cup so and then subsequently to a different FIFA World Cup as well so once you have the thing is tokenized by the issuer then they can use this to tie to like entrance and also think about merchandise purchase a different teams and then it was brought it to a different player who manages authoring system in Austria the largest player there and they handle like tens of

thousands of players hundreds of thousands of trades so just by tokenizing them just by getting these enterprises it's it's sufficient to then scale your solution with a consortium that will work for every use case mm-hmm and then you you did not work in consortium either I think when you when you produce your solution to the market yeah so we're offering it as a platform in addition to the SSD market platforms but interesting thing to note is that many of the clients or institutions they also expressed interest to maintain the network together because obviously they are also looking at scaling up the

business use cases into further uses beyond what they are really looking at so that's why I think that initially what is quick to go to market ok for scaling and size and expensive functions they consider might actually provide the legitimacy a credibility among themselves thank you very much well this was an exciting times already I found it exciting because two key success factors I mean we start it with saying okay it definitely needs to have a use case a use case that brings and economic

and I mean many of you said we are replacing something that is very time-consuming which is of has a lot of risks risks costs cost of execution transaction costs for a lot of the participants so these are kind of use cases we can bring the economic value of enterprise stock chain solutions then Ben was as well saying the integration into existing processes into existing platforms is really very very key and important and crucial so as I was referring to it and another thing is you

know the to bring it alive is not always always having the right people involved in it and it's as well about the having we had a right people and consortiums are not always the right model to do it could be as well that just building a platform and growing growing from one player to another player and then connecting these players together so step by step and going from small to large is very key I don't know Claudia what your takeaway is from an academic perspective from this panel as giving

you the last word you are me you are mute you just meet it yourself for a familiar unmuted myself so I thank you very much for your kindness Danny so I think that this panel a shows the the interest perspective that exists also they a amount of open questions I think that with discovering new things and a relief forward we are able to solve and to bring forward this thank you very much thank to everybody for this participating in the panel

I wish you weekend if you had hope the audience enjoyed it as well and filled out the poll of our research topics very happily they yes thanks everybody we will send the results to the group and you know we table then start working with universities on these topics and I would welcome everybody to join as well the Krypto Valley Association and especially as well the valley and because we are doing a part from these public events as well smaller events where we have students that are working on these research will present there as

the results of the CSIs within the Krypto Valley Association so it is definitely value to join the association here and to benefit from this one too once with more details on particular research topics so I want to thank everybody for participating today and hope to see you next time thank you thank you everybody thank you