BIG ETH BREAKOUT COMING?! ZEC Is Flying! HYPE, LIT, NEAR, VVV Bullish!

Transcript

[music] [music] [music] [music] Thank you. Lord. We'll see you around the timeline.

Feels good to be back. I think The Rollup is one of the most premier media brands [music and singing] in crypto and Andy and Robbie are great experts at everything they talk about and it's my favorite podcast. adding it to my library as we see >> potentially multi-chain deployments. We are at Dev Connect day one here from space. [music] >> [music]

[music] >> Heat. Heat. [music] >> [music] [music] [music] >> JP Morgan, Black Rockck, DTCC, Fidelity, the entire thing was just institutions.

It's just it's next level. This industry is going to the next level. And guys, I I don't know what else to say. >> I'm bullish. >> HE SAID IT. HE FINALLY SAID IT. So bullish. >> It is bullish. I'm bullish. We're bullish. Heat. [music] [music] [music]

Heat. [music] >> [music] >> Heat. [music] Heat. N. >> [music] [music]

>> Corolla is headed to the [music] top. If we're not already at the top, we're going to the tugos. >> Roll up is my favorite. >> From all walks of life, all over the world, all over this industry come together for the roll up. [music] [music] [music] >> [music] [music] [music]

[music] >> Zoom out. The institutions aren't coming. They're simply here. It's the golden age of crypto, guys. Get right. Let's go. [music] Welcome to the nest. See you on the show. [laughter] [laughter] Oh my lordy goodness. Thank you, Scott Besson, for your $6 billion contribution to my highly leveraged vlogs. Thank you so much, Scott. [laughter] >> [gasps] >> Yo, this has got to be a local top cuz we're so euphoric right now.

>> Someone just said Andy's on Joker mode. >> Yo. Oh, wow. >> Straight out of >> I'm cramping up. I'm cramping up. I'm cramping [laughter] up. >> Someone's a little dehydrated from last. >> We were at the US Open till 2:00 a.m. last night. [ __ ] Dude, the match went till 400 a.m. last night. >> And then where did you go? >> We [laughter] went back to the office, man. Guys, welcome back to the rollup. Today is Wednesday, September 9th. We're live from the financial capital world of the Empire State Building here in the tokenization tower. Great name for a token tokenization exemption uh that we've obviously been talking about.

Rumor mills buzzing hard. Trenches are absolutely on fire. Trenches are on fire. So, before we start the show, let me tell you what's happened over the last like 72 hours here. So my brother and I used to ride bikes with this Serbian kid and I was probably in like fifth grade and my brother and his friends, they love to sports bet and I do a bunch too on Cali and stuff, but I always lose. So I I kind of go through spurts where I, you know, I'll lose 500 bucks and then I'll quit for like three months and I'll come back and, you know, I'll start gambling again, whatever.

So I sent them both like $300 on FOMO of Zcat. the the the anonymous cat and I told them to sell some of that and put it into MOO. Over the last 72 hours, these guys have taken matters into their own hands. Bear in mind, we're like 20 years past being in fourth grade now. And they are up like 4x on a new Binance uh chain memecoin. And uh they get the flow, take profits, rotate into a new bag, keep a moon bag, always be selling, always be selling, keep stacking up into larger positions into, you know, other holdings, hit winners, sell them. They are dialed. Honestly, meme coins could

save people from losing money on sports betting. I know memecoins are highly highly highly speculative and honestly I'm down on FOMO because I just keep sending all my friends money on FOMO. I I can't keep anything on the platform. And look, I just wanted to, you know, tell that story because I just checked the app and the token that we're ripping on is called VC and it just topped out. Um, and so let's see let's see if they were able to pull the sell button. I don't know if they were.

Let's see. Let's see. Yep. And he sells the top. My best friend on FOMO sells the top. Look at the red. Look at the red. He bought Lowe's and he took profits at the top. Dude, I'm telling you, FOMO is going to take the sports betting community by storm. W's in the >> Wow. Let's go Z. Clip that. What's going on, Rob? All right, that's my little rant. We can get to the show now. Here. Wow. Great vibe. Great vibe. All 94 of you guys watching. We have an amazing show today, Brad. We got Bitcoin Jack.

So, you remember in 2017 when you joined the show or when you joined the industry Rob? >> I remember in 2016 when I joined the industry. Yeah. >> Okay. And you remember Twitter then? And I I followed a guy named Crypto Coconut who got me in to all the Paloni X pumps and it was incredible. And I followed this I follow >> Rob tell us about tell us about your 2016 day. Come on. >> Um I'll dox my age. I mean 2016 I was a junior in high school or sophomore in high school and I would uh leave to go play poker at a casino about 15 minutes down the road with a fake ID. I would go in play some poker and my buddy told me

that I was being an idiot for skipping school and he said, "Hey, you can just play poker online with Bitcoin." And I said, "What's Bitcoin?" And then I started playing poker online with Bitcoin. And then slowly but surely I started uh making some money uh based on Bitcoin going up and also maybe winning a little bit on poker. And then I started to discover altcoins and I started to discover Paloniex and Bitrex and Cryptopia and all these things. And there was this whole swath of altcoins that were listed on these exchanges. You didn't need any margin. You didn't need any leverage. It was just a wild universe of altcoins out there. This is really in the heart of the ICO super cycle. So, these companies were raising

a ton of money. Their tokens were already live and listed and you can get exposure as they were raising funds. And there was this guy Crypto Coconut along with all of the usual suspects back in 2016. Kobe Jibus, this is news, Bitcoin Jack, uh Sicarius, Wasi. Uh there was a guy, oh man, I haven't seen him in a long time, but a whole bunch of guys. >> Lunar Lundar Don Lunar Don was out there. Bunch of guys. >> There was uh Phil Phil Kilakone with that did that infamous picture where he had like 20 laptop screens and he was like, "This is my trading setup." It's like Pico Top 2017. He's like up a

thousandx on Tron and everyone's like, "You're the biggest scammer, paid group scammer." in the entire industry and you're up like a jillion on Tron. How about Ian Ian >> Bolina? Yeah, Ian Bolina. And so just to just to round out that story, so I was following a bunch of these guys, uh taking a lot of their calls, doing pretty well on on Bitrex and and Paloni X. I ended up visiting a college, the college that I ended up going to, and got drunk for the first time. And I was super long Paloniex on this absolute [ __ ] altcoin called 1CR. It was like a digital e- gaming casino that had a token and it topped as I'm like

absolutely faded on this college trip. And I said, "All right, I'll be fine till the morning." And I'm talking about pure Christmas tree. I had like everything all in. Ran it up like double digit bitcoins all the way down. And uh that was uh that was my story about uh getting drunk at college for the first time as a high schooler being long on one CR on Paloni. >> Good good times. I remember Vertcoin. I thought I was going to be a millionaire in Vertcoin. >> You know what's funny though is that cycle that those days in the library like uh you know Robbie and I were at the UF library together for hours.

>> Yeah. We would get a little stone sometimes and we would just trade coins. >> Yeah, >> maybe Rob didn't. Yeah. No, he would never do that. You would never have the math major boy do do anything wrong. The guy was a stoner. Anyway, u we we we are trading these coins. And the biggest lesson that I learned there was leverage is the killer. Like I could have done so much better holding spot through that bull cycle from like April, Rob, I want to say 2017 is when I made my Coinbase account and Bitrex account.

>> I mean, let Litecoin was $3, you know, Bitcoin was a,000, ETH was 40, 50ish, and I mean, dude, they had insane runs. And instead of just playing spot and trading alts on Bitrex, which I did, of course, I was so fixated on trying to like almost day trade. Like it was the day trading charts guys, the trading charts, the bar charts guys. >> Those were the guys that I always followed. And that was my biggest lesson. And like that's what I'm carrying into last cycle and this one is just like sure you can have a little leverage account but dude like the way you make money in this market is buying good positions in spot and knowing when

the tides turn to being a holders market not a trader market and doing less. Like I talked to our quant the other day and all he told me was now is not the time to sell Andy now is the time to do less. And so I think a pro tip for everybody who's watching trying to make the most of this bull is like less is more. Less is more. And I'm on my ivory tower right now. My portfolio is up seven figures in like six weeks. Like I don't listen to me. I'm euphoric. But like >> hold hold do less do less. Do less.

>> I think there's a couple takeaways and I absolutely agree with that one where it's like less is more at this stage because you don't want to paperhand your entries. You also don't want to overextend your leverage and get caught. And so I think to reformulate one of the things that you're saying is like look when we were teenagers back then I mean we were insecure right we saw a bunch of people making money and we went further down the risk curve to try to chase psychologically you know we had to be the winner we had to be the guys that made the most because we saw >> amount of time >> right >> and I think that's one lesson to take away is don't chase don't go further down the risk curve and you don't need to if you're secure in what you're doing

and the the Other thing is, you know, and I this goes back to maybe, you know, the the story of, you know, following people's calls and then getting, you know, tied up in positions. >> Interesting given how far the social trading stuff has came now, right? >> Absolutely. But don't go into something without having a thesis. The the thing is like I was just I got to a point where I was like, "Okay, I saw someone call out what they thought was interesting on a trade or on a coin or company on Twitter." And then I saw, okay, let me go look into this thing and do my own research and see if it resonates with, you know, my style. And a lot of times it did. I ended up following a lot of those calls and did relatively well. But the specific time that I mentioned around this one CR

thing, this crypto coconut account, called it out, I just blindly followed because I said, "This guy's been right four or five times in a row. I don't want to miss this." I FOMOed in and I tailed him without doing my own research. That's when I got blindsided because once I mean this guy's got a once I didn't no longer had a thesis. I was no longer in control of my own portfolio. It was totally up to someone else. >> Well, you know what's funny, Rob, is this per position that I'm holding, right? >> Is I was such a hype bull, >> right, >> for so long like we've been watching and trading this asset for, bro. I mean, we put the screenshot out the first hour it dropped. I bought on a shared rollup account for Rob and I in Hong Kong

because Robbie was in the US and obviously you can't use Hyperlid in the US and like I bought it and we tracked that asset the entire life cycle till now. But like when that capital flows guy came out talking about PER, I was like, "Oh wow." Like I have a lot of money market funds sitting here right now from the top of the last cycle more or less. Like I'm gonna buy a ton of PUR and just quadruple my hype position almost, right? And then on that last dip when Purr pulled back from 1180 to five, my mind was so I was so upset with

myself. Not because I was losing money, but because I was losing money on borrowed conviction. And that is extremely hard to manage and navigate psychologically. Now, on the flip side with my Zcash position, I'm not [ __ ] selling. I don't care if we get to $5,000 next month. I am not selling >> difference. You know, I know the asset in and out and I I I have strong belief. I have a thesis. I have a plan. I know my exit targets when they do come.

But a mentor told me, Bitcoin OG, that, you know, this guy's a 2013 OG, nine figs now. He, you know, he told me that, you know, how we all got rich on Bitcoin? We just never sold. We never sold. And of course, Rob, this guy's got, you know, a path dependency bias and a survivorship bias, right? Obviously, but I mean, why sell your Zcash? Why sell it? Why sell your Zcash? Bitcoin Jack's better to come on this show and tell us he's got 10 figure, eight figures in Zcash right now. I guarantee. I mean, he's not going to say that, but this guy's a whale. This guy is a whale. 2017 Bitcoin OG. probably 15.

Well, like no way he's gonna dox full PFP. I'm long eight figs in Zcash. I bet that's his position. >> Um >> he's long near. He's long Venice. >> Yeah, >> he's long Bitcoin. He's long ETH. >> So, I'm looking for it now, but I and I'm not finding it. But Mert has a tweet about what we were saying earlier, >> which is like, you know, if you're basically just tailing people, it's like you're another person is your edge. Like you're basically just like dependent on another man for your edge. like what are like

>> I I wish I could have the tweet because he really put it really well but it just goes to show as far as like look other people that have thesis and put something out have you know they have a conviction and a thesis they stay open-minded that anyone can change their mind and if you're just blindly following people >> you're not privy to the same inputs that that person might be into you need to >> or your risk like your risk size like like your sizing your risk parameters construction is so different. >> Exactly. >> But somebody in the chat makes a good point. If you don't have money, Jimmy says, then you need leverage, >> right? Like, you know, if if you don't have money, then you do need leverage. Sure, I get that. But you don't need 8x leverage.

The only leverage positions that I have right now are on a per account that is tiny compared to the size of my portfolio. And I'm farming per deckes, uh, variational and NATO. So the whole point of trading on these things is just to get points to get another big airdrop, right? I missed hyperloop and I missed lighter. Totally silly. But the only other per position that I have that's not farming any airdrop is two to 3x longs on lighter Zcash and one or two others that are from like 70% ago. And so their liquidations are like 80% from here.

And I can hold those the whole cycle and I can not get eaten alive on funding, but I can take a let's call it a 20k portfolio, turn it into a 45 to 60k position in from the lows at the cycle and no risk of getting liquidated because my entry has been validated. And so I feel great about those positions and I've learned that. That was also a key learning, Rob. It was like don't just be anti- leverage because people are like leverage is bad. Don't trade leverage. No, there is a lot of value in having leverage on in the early parts of the cycle. building a lowle

leverage one to you know 2 to 3x position on majors because you can really get outsized returns without having funding destroy you and you don't have to worry about liquidation. >> Yeah. So >> yeah, I no I tend to agree. I have uh you know some you know low leverage stuff out there as well. Usually using it more as a tool to hedge some things um but also uh to sort of manage capital in such a way that you know it it allows you to kind of like structure things um and configure things in which you have a bit more capital efficiency than spot would allow. I tend to think

at if we're looking at where we are today, you know, Bessant made this announcement, yeah, around six billion dollars of buybacks today. >> Yeah. >> I think this was a local top in the hard money to uh revenue meta ratio. >> What I mean, what I mean by that >> is we've been constructing this portfolio thesis on this show for months since the depths of the bare market. We've told you that there's two categories that have outperformed and will continue to outperform. Those are hard money, scarce assets like Bitcoin and Zcash that will perform extremely well due to the accretive monetary regime that is injecting liquidity into the money monetary supply and the Treasury doing buybacks is exactly this

and we'll see how the Federal Reserve reacts and this has been the Bitcoin thesis. On the other hand, you have real companies with real fundamentals generating real money because they have product market fit. They have users and activity. They're generating revenue. They're generating fees and earnings and passing that value back to their tokens. That is what we call the revenue meta. So, we've got these two categories. You can call them a horseshoe or a barbell. On one hand, you've got the revenue meta. On the other hand, you've got the hard money scarce assets. I have been oscillating between these two. I think one hedges the other. The reason is because >> But you hold both.

>> I hold both and they hedge one another. And when the Treasury and the Fed and the macro regime is signaling that the pace of liquidity creation is going to accelerate, the hard money scarce assets do better. Zcash pumped almost to 1300. I mean, it outperformed. Bitcoin also had that catch-up trade when they first announced these buybacks back in August. Total outperformance. I think for the next week, we're going to get some hot inflation data. I think the Fed is going to scare some people into de-risking. But the other side of this barbell is the revenue meta with real fundamentals, real revenue that is building a floor in these assets. And I think that floor does not exist on hard money. But I think it does exist on these revenue

meta tokens. >> So basically hype all-time high, Bitcoin more bullish chop. >> Bitcoin and Zcash bullish chop. Bullish chop upwards but not rerating higher. M >> revenue meta assets, Venice, Lighter, Hyperliquid Near Aerodrome Pump Frack, uh, Athena, uh, list goes on. >> Y, >> these bullish chop also, but more bullish than the hard money.

>> Yeah, cool. I kind of agree. Um, I also just kind of think Zcash is going to lead the whole market. I think everything, you know, Bessant kind of used his bullet today. Bessent, I think, controls the narrative for like 85 days every quarter, but I think Wars controls the narrative from now until Wednesday. And he controls it for about a week every two months. And that is when we're leading up to the FOMC decision. And I think he might look I mean prediction markets have it at like 55 to 45. I after hearing all of the macro analysis talk about it, it's a coin flip. I don't

know. But I do think that we could see one rate hike >> y >> before now and the end of the year. We are going to have an FOMC meeting in October. That I think is basically a rate hike in October is almost entirely off the table because it's too close to the midterms. >> Yeah, they uh Felix was like there's no way we're going to even September, man. Even this one is kind of like you don't want to hike into the midterms. >> I know, but I think maybe he forgot about the one in October or what because he wasn't mentioning it. >> I don't know if there is one. I think it's September and December. >> Look it up. It's easy to tell. Look at the >> rate hike FOMC meeting schedule. Next one is September 15th to 16th. The one after that is October 27th to 28th.

>> Oh, I see. >> And then December 8th and 9th. So, we've got three before the end of the year. I think the the talk is that Worsh has to do one hike to establish credibility. The Fed needs in political independence or else the yields go absolutely berserk. October October is pretty much off limits because it's too close to the midterms. The elections are like the following week or two. Hell no. >> December could be too late. And there is a argument for doing you could see I mean it's either September or December. I could see December. I could see September because to do it now >> it's still before the still before the midterms.

>> Andy, listen. >> It is still before the midterms, but it's enough in advance that they could rally the market hard enough that everyone has amnesia and forgets about the hike. And I think that is a viable play. They get the hike out of the way. people understand that this is like a oneanddone situation and it's not a hiking regime >> and the market is it absorbs it, it ingests it. We get a little bit of a short-term pullback and then going into the fall later in September, going into October November December yeah >> we're on the rise. I'm just telling you what uh senior e um senior economist Adam Poston told me in Jackson Hole,

which was we're not getting a hike in September, but we're 100% going to get one in December. I could see that. I mean, look, I think what everyone agrees on is that it's not going to happen in October. And I think also it has to happen before the end of the year. So you're either in yes, you know, they hike next week to establish credibility and then that's it and it's bullish or they don't hike next week. There is there is no credibility and it's still bullish. So I think the I think the plays, you know, the markets are going to derisk going into inflation on Friday. I think it's going to be potentially pretty hot and then derisk further into next Wednesday and then coming out of, you know, if they don't

hike, I think it's going to be incredibly bullish. If they do hike, I think maybe you get a little bit of a short-term pullback and then it's bullish after that. >> Well, that's what um Felix was saying. He was basically like >> we need the hike to be a insurance hike >> to establish credibility is really what the market as long as the market doesn't see it as like, oh, we're beginning a new hiking cycle. >> So, the rhetoric, >> that's the problem. >> The rhetoric around how they hike and or or how they don't hike. like what Worsh says is going to be incredibly important as well because it's again how they position the hike, how they poss the insurance hike.

>> The insurance hike is to establish credibility so that you know obviously Trump is who put Wars into place in the first place. Wars has been on the same private plane flying to the G20 with Bessant sitting next to him as they address these world leaders talking about growth while Bessant has been talking about growing our way out of the debt. Wars has been talking about you know AI and the in the uh you know productivity boom and how that is going to compensate for inflation like and then Bessant talking about not raising into a supply shock. So all of this is putting pressure on Worsh.

>> Yeah. has a really hard job right now. >> But I think he's up for it, man. And I think I think he's actually going to do a pretty good job. I think he I don't know what he's going to do, but I think either way, he's going to do a good job of posturing it. He's going to do a good job of posturing it. >> Yeah. He's not Yeah. He's not trying to piss Trump off. No, but he has to give enough resistance that people think >> he's independent and he's not just a puppet and that he is going to raise rates if he needs to in order to calm down the bond market.

>> Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I think Ethereum is about to rip faces off. >> I think we're going to get a little bit of a slow market in the next week. I think people are going to derisk going into inflation going into the FOMC and then I think depending on Worsh's decision, we're going to rip. It's just a matter of how hard. >> Um, so Jack's about to come on and he put out this tweet and the tweet said, "Bitcoin new highs by end of week, hype to 100 and Zcash something else." So look, Andy, if you if you agree with this take, right, maybe we get it in

September or maybe we get it in December, but either way, no matter what happens next week, it is going to be bullish. It's just a matter of how bullish, how strong we rally. How do you stand on the pendulum between the hard money and I and I think we agree on the portfolio construction at a at a high level. You know, it's the barbell between hard money and revenue producing companies, >> but where do you where do you stand on the on the pendulum between the two? >> Uh, Hype Liquid is probably my biggest position >> for my Zcash position is getting there.

I'm pretty much split. I mean, it's hype and Ze dominates the portfolio for me and everything else in Bitcoin. In Bitcoin and Ze on the asset side, >> I would say quick math is probably yeah, the the barbell of the store of value assets is probably 35%. And the revenue producing business is 65%. >> And I think that's going to outperform for about a week. But if I think if Worsh holds rates steady, I think the right portfolio construction is to invert that and go 6535 the other way because I think based on the monetary regime, which is the dog wagging the tail,

>> I think hard money rallies harder than revenue producing assets. [snorts] Yeah, guys, we got Bitcoin Jack coming up. Man, this is going to be a banger. This is going to be a banger. I think Rob the only other counter to that is just like the industry still just kind of follows Bitcoin. So, you know, like sure, let's say Bitcoin rips because of your thesis. What's to say that hype's not just going to rip more?

>> Sorry, say that again. >> Like, let's say Bitcoin rips on your thesis right? um on like uh like monetary regime like accommodative monetary regime I think Bitcoin gold and Zcash would rip >> and I think would probably rip harder than revenue. >> Yeah, that's that's my thesis. But I think as people derisk going into the potential that we don't get the accommodative monetary policy, I think revenue outperforms. This is that's my thesis is that look in US dollar terms all of this is bullish.

All of it's bullish in US dollar terms. But I think if the Treasury and the Fed are working together to create accommodative monetary policy, hard money is going to rip harder. But I think if they're not working together and we don't get money printer on and accommodative monetary policy, I think when the liquidity acceleration slows and decelerates, that's when the revenue uh is going to outperform. >> Yeah. Epic. >> So, that's that that's where I'm at right now.

>> All right, guys. We're gonna get Jack up here imminently. I am stoked on this. I am stoked. I am stoked. This is going to be great. Let's go ahead and pull Jack into the live. Um, let's see if we can hear him. First of all, I know we're doing no we're doing no uh video, which is fine, but uh Jack, can you hear us? Beautiful. Um, oh yeah, a little louder would be great. You're not up live yet, but we'll give you just a second. Um, I'm gonna just give a quick intro to you. So, Jack is, uh, yeah, it's better.

Jack's a OG Bitcoin trader and I hear him just fine in the live, so we're good to go. Maybe just needs to be turned up a little bit. And yeah, I mean, a lot to talk about, Jack. So, we're going to bring you up in just a sec once we hear uh everything is good on the back, guys. We're going to take a quick 30 second pause and uh we'll be right back. [music] [music] >> [music]

>> We get deep. We get deep. We know we get we get we get deep. >> All right guys, comments here as we have for Jack. Hopefully the circle share price will not run up away for I fill my OG bootstraps. I feel you dubious rationale. James, good to see you, man.

Bessant and Wars better push pull better than pickup artists. Yo, that is that is pretty funny. Uh, yeah, agree we're getting a p a pullback or a cool off, Jimmy says. Uh, no, I don't think we are. And I don't think Jack thinks we are either. I'm really curious what his what his opinion is right now cuz he's been so dialed. No chain link bags. Yep, I do own Link. Hey, Grav. Yo yo yo yo. Um, slow slow clap for Jack. Unruly ruly.

Yes, sir. Jack's the man. Zash, rocket emoji, Victor. Yes, sir. We are. Yep. We are bullish, Victor. I'll tell you that, man. We are in deep. Andy, how many Zins you got in? You're on a tear. Yo, Rambo, did you look at Wow. Rambo says, "I have eight figs in Zack and lit." Bullish, man. >> No way. Rambo. Um, Rambo, are you in this memecoin on FOMO? There's a memecoin that pays you lighter on FOMO and it's tiny, but I think it's going to rip.

>> It's like the candle emoji. >> Yeah, it's the candle emoji one. I don't know if you're still watching, Rambo, but um it's just called candle and it's at 1 million market cap. I know we're not trying to just be shilling garbage on the show, but um yeah, it's called candle. I'm in. Amy, tell me how this works, right? Like Zcat and and this candle one, like how where do the dividends come from? Is it trading fees that get passed back to holders of this memecoin? >> Um, yeah, it's all the tax and the fees from the transactions.

Um, they get transferred into buying the asset that they're like meant to be paired with or whatever. And then you just get to buy all of the uh or then you start accumulating the token. So like for example on my side I bought and near I missed near but I bought um I bought $139 worth of candle and I'm up 300%.

And I've earned $30 of lighter. So, I've earned 25% of my principal back on the token. So, pretty good honestly. Um, pretty happy about that. Um, what else do we get in the comments? Zama is Zindaddy left. Robbie right? Hard money only Bitcoin and Zcash also some other tokens good revenue token for so a lot but for hard money Zcash and Bitcoin and Ethereum for me now and gold I like it. Yeah you I I mean I'm long gold as well. I think that's the hard money side of the thesis. ETH is weird though and I think ETH is going to do

well but ETH doesn't really fit super nicely into either bucket. That's my only hesitation. And I am long ETH on spot but and I do think that Tom Lee did a fantastic job and you know he took a ton of supply off of the open market. Yeah, he did. >> Once it gets going it will get going. But >> coin that pays me Poly Market IPO shares. Which one is that? That sounds interesting. 3% of fees get split proto Robbie. Yep, that's what James says. Yeah. So, James, you're in Zcat. And then some other like gold one on Robin Hood chain if I'm not mistaken. Bitcoin one I'm heavy in. Buy the cat. Oh, that's Bitcoin BTC. Buy the cat.

>> Let's check that out. >> Buy the cat. >> Here's $10 for Robbie to start buying [ __ ] for once. Dude, >> who did that? >> You're hilarious. >> James, you're the man. Yeah, Robbie's not on FOMO. He doesn't want to do this [ __ ] I'm not on FOMO. >> Wow, that Bitcoin one is up to 7 mil. >> Wow. >> Gut is poly market. >> But how do they have is this is it programmatic or is it just like someone manually going like the dev is just pressing the button every block or like every hour to like send an airdrop with all the fees?

>> I don't know. But I'm getting gut. It's gut says. Yeah. Poly market. So it pays you in >> iny poly market memecoin. >> Wait. See how do they have like inventory of polyarket. >> Dip wheeler is in gut. That's epic. I'm going in. I need to clear some [ __ ] out first. Guys, sorry about this. We're still waiting for Jack. He's having a little bit of tech issues. Guten insider. But is it native lighter or a wrapped version of lighter? It's a It's a wrapped version. Yeah. Is it programmatic or someone like Unruly Ruy says can be either but I don't want to trust a dev to press.

>> No, it's programmatic. It's smart contract programmed. It's [snorts] programmatic all the way. I'm down bad on Uber driver. It was just one that's paying out in Ripple. I I think it's dead. I'm gonna sell it. I'm down I'm down 1,700 on it. [ __ ] >> Pawns v2 does programmatic. So, this is pawns. They like have some of these like tokenized equity mechanisms that allow you to do this. I Robbie will fall like the rest of us. >> Yeah, he definitely will. All right, so I'm selling Uber.

>> I mean, I like the Poly Market IPO thing for sure, but I'm just curious where they're getting preipo shares. Rollup has lost a plot with the rest of us. >> Rollup has lost a plot. All right, I think we're I think we're almost there on Jack. >> Um, all right. So, I just sold Uber. That was terrible trade. That was awful. >> New tech trader programmatic. They just airdrop it into your FOMO wallet. Okay, that's cool. >> And I'm buying more MOO. Moo is my bet. It's paired with Micron. It doesn't do any of this crazy [ __ ] but I just bought more Moo. Um, I'll update the thesis.

Update thesis. Um, what is the thesis? Uh, >> all right. We're gonna get >> oversold and we're gonna go hide. >> We're doing Whisper Flows live on stream. Uh, we're going to get Jack up here. He's been uh very patient waiting behind the scenes. I think we got his audio all sorted out. Uh, we're gonna ask him whether he's fallen for it as well, if he's lost the plot, if all the along, as well as like what the Bitcoin thesis is in 2026. Um, and then obviously Zcash, has it eaten some of Bitcoin's thesis or is it just benefiting from the same accommodative macro regime that we're seeing the Treasury and the Fed work together on? I think Jack is live.

>> Yeah, let's bring >> Let's go ahead and bring him up. >> Yes. >> Yes, there he is. We've got you, Jack. How you doing? >> I'm doing good, actually. Quite great. Um, but exhausted and been doing a lot of [ __ ] like next to the markets as well. So yeah, I don't know. Like I'm trying to juggle everything right now and um it's it's uh it's a rush trying to keep sane. Um and uh yeah, I mean these kind of market conditions are are never easy.

Like you think, oh, it's easy. [ __ ] is going up. But you have to be like, you know, you have to be so focused and on point. Um sorry. >> Yeah, man. I mean, before you jumped up live, we were saying how one of the best strategies right now is just don't do anything. Just less is more, you know, that way you don't get too extended on leverage and you don't, you know, paperhand sell too early. >> Yeah. You don't sell your Venice position too early. You would hate to do that right Jack? >> I sold it at 18. It was pretty pretty pretty good trade, but >> I bet it was.

>> Well, I I do agree that well, the strategy for me now has been in August. It was very clear to me at some point that we could have like something very special coming and at that point things are starting to rally and start to move and you know that markets are going to like pull back and you you just want to like you know you want to see it happen those pullbacks and you're just like not being bothered by it. Um [clears throat] it's fine to like give back like 30% of your unrealized P&L because you're in a trend like as long as you expect that trend to go. um don't do too much. Like let the market come to you and then there's going to be like I don't know moments where a

certain asset on its own pulls back and when you're like running a cross leverage um basket or portfolio maybe combined with I don't know some isolated positions you get the chance to kind of take profit from something that ran really nicely um or not even and just use your cross leverage to kind of pick up on the pullbacks that you're getting. you know, like you'll you'll get a pullback, you'll see the structure forming, you'll nibble a little bit and then you see the structure forming more and you're like, "Okay, well, this is the point where it's going to like continue." And you add, you just add.

So, you're basically running this like quite aggressive scheme on positioning, but you only, you know, you you have to be able to kind of give back some of that unrealized profit. Um, and once you get too dialed into looking at unrealized profit, like, oh, yesterday I was up like, I don't know, this much and today it's gone, or today I'm having less money than two days ago, but still it's still 20x up, right? So, >> like, it been trading really well, haven't you? My god.

>> Um, >> Bitcoin's only up 30 30% off the lows. Who Who's hitting 20x, Jack? Well, so Jack, go ahead. Finish that thought. So you you know, you said like unrealized P&L is not the thing to pay attention to. What what do you pay attention to to make sure that you stay focused, stay with it? >> Well, so it it's all about having what makes it easy is being right on on the right assets, right? So, um, get your thesis right, pick the right assets, and if the assets that you picked are moving, that gives you leeway to kind of like also start building like a position on BTC with the profits, a position on ETH with the profits, whatever. And you want to kind of like focus on,

for example, with Ccash, it's central to to my to my trading right now. And I have this very solid idea of where it's going to go and I'm not going to do anything unless like it doesn't get there and I get stopped out. But I, you know, it's it's doing whatever I think it's it should be doing. So I'm just waiting until these levels hit and then the market can go higher without me. Um, and obviously if Bitcoin starts to [ __ ] the bat, the whole thesis is off the table probably.

>> Yeah. Um so essentially it's just monitoring the market for whether you know the trend is still intact. Nothing has happened like even if Bitcoin would have gone to like 74K like really quickly it would not I mean I would not be so bullish anymore right but for now it's still above like 77K 78K 79K so we're in this trend and the thesis is and that's super simple. We've had essentially a Bitcoin market that was heavily hedged short for the AI craze that started to happen. People were very afraid that AI might actually break Bitcoin

>> and also it was hedged because it was just pulling so much liquidity out of our market. So that's the first thing that started rolling. like I think there's still like 30% of that heavy short positioning left to squeeze. Then there's a lot of people who are still like short um waiting for a lower low. So the thesis is simply this market is going to go up to the point where everyone's kind of like capitulating on their short thesis and then you have Ccash which is basically on a on a cycle of its own because the Ccash cycle started last year, right? It's it's not a four-year cycle. It's a completely different

cycle. Everyone's still thinking about Bitcoin as the main kind of cycle, whatever. But Zcash is on its own [ __ ] cycle, right? So, it's in this wave three, which may last until like, you know, the end of this year, uh, with, I don't know, maybe one like 50 60% pullback in between. Um, so that's kind of the things that you want to look at like are your are the the main characters running and are they still trending and right now like Zcash I mean obviously it could dump tomorrow and then I'm wrong but it's it's on a it's on a super huge stair so it's going to pull all these like adjacent assets with it. Near is one of the biggest ones

um very simply because the Ccash >> ecosystem is using Near like in the wallets whatever and then obviously privacy but Monero is kind of like lagging a little bit then obviously the place where you trade all this [ __ ] is hype hyper liquid and then a bunch of other places like I started farming txflow.com boy and that's kind of the places where you want to be and spend your time right now, right? Like what's what's what's the current narrative? That's the current narrative. It's AI, it's infrastructure, >> and those narratives are not slowing down at all. So, you want to be long.

>> So, Jack, what are your Zcash levels? >> Um, if you don't mind. >> All right. So, here we go. Um, I do think that it's possible this year, but that's like later in the year, that we see anywhere between three to five and then in this month, I do think it's possible we're going to see up to 18,900. >> And and uh Jack, where do you think that is relative to Bitcoin? Do you think we get to the 0.1 Zcash Bitcoin target that people are looking at or do you think Zcash can go on this run even if Bitcoin just kind of stays steady, doesn't dump

but doesn't, you know, rip? >> My baseline here is that Bitcoin is preparing to to push well into the 90s. So my conservative case for Bitcoin is 93K, but my like my upper target for this month could be 97 98. >> No way. >> Yeah. So even even if Bitcoin or excuse me, even if Zcash stays where it is relative to Bitcoin, if Bitcoin is in the 90s, you know, Zcash can still chill around that 015. 02 level and push the $3,000 Zcash that you're talking about.

>> Yeah. I mean, if Bitcoin doesn't go anywhere, I do expect that Zcash is going to hit like 0.023, but I it makes more sense to me that it's going to like stagnate around the round level like the the 02. >> Okay. Um, and then I it makes the most sense that this is going to, you know, happen simultaneously a little bit like Zcash versus BTC is outperforming right now like quite heavily and then somewhere in that next like pop of BTC um, which I expect could start as early as next week that we make new highs and then start pushing. Obviously, there's going to be this point where Bitcoin is gonna suck out a little bit of the life

of Ccash, but Ccash is still going to appreciate like in in USD terms, right? >> Yep. >> Um, but I mean, these things are super speculative. I might be completely wrong. >> Why are you Why are you targeting next week? Is it the FOMC decision or is there any catalyst that you're looking at that you know this is why we could see a >> Yeah, you said voodoo magic check between September 15th to 22nd if I recall correctly. So something's going on over there. >> Essentially um I do think that the end of the month is going to be super bearish. So anything that's going to happen has to happen before that. And then we have I mean when you analyze markets and this might be a little bit of the food and

magic but like the you have the solstice the equinox which are points in the year where the sun is the highest or in between the highest and the lowest point right so the equinox is the point where it's in between and it's it's always a crucial point in the market if you analyze markets against that date and this year I think it's September 23rd usually there is a lot of volatility going in in in that moment so that might be going up and then a crash down. Um and at this pace if you do expect that you know we break higher here, Bitcoin goes to 81, 82, 83K and we have another like short cascade of all the shorts that also piled up again. Um like what's your window to expect that to kind of

start coming down? Um then you have next week you have the closure vote which might actually like I think I know you guys are saying that clarity is off the table and that might completely be true but there's still a chance it's not >> but the market already priced in that it's not going to make it right. So >> correct, right? It doesn't really matter like >> it doesn't really matter but if it go if it goes through >> you have you have your catalyst for a oneweek rip. >> Yeah.

>> Then you have the FOMC FOMC is expected to be >> like a lot of people priced in the rate hike. Right. >> So that is not going to I don't think it's going to be >> even if we get a rate hike I don't think the market's going to dump a lot. So, it's it's a bullish catalyst again, but we could top like next week and then the party's over. >> Yeah, Jack, I'm waiting for something like I can feel it and I just want one more push. You know what I mean? Because I I know if I get one more push across the board, ETH to like low 3s, if we get this Zcash number that you're talking about, if we get this Bitcoin to like high 80s, 90s, I mean, that's it for a little while. Like that's going to be

all of us who are in on the lows on the good tokens are up a gargantuan amount and you're gonna want to trim a little bit and get ready to buy the dips on those trending assets. That's kind of my plan and that's why I really wanted to talk to you today because I just been tracking your content. I mean, I've been [ __ ] loving it because we have just been so aligned on our thesis and our views and our bags really. I mean, and so, you know, um just waiting for that one last thing. And I'm the only fear that I have is that I'm not going to get it and that this is going to be the interim top or like local top and I'm going to give away, you know, I don't know, 30% on this move of my current

port instead of just getting one more ripper and then being more proactive. So, I haven't really taken much off the table, Jack. I don't know if I should. I'm not asking you for advice, but that's that's kind of where I'm at. >> If you're asking me if I took anything off the table, >> maybe like uh >> maybe just like a little play money, which looks nice in the bank, >> which I'm like spending right now. Um for you. >> Yeah. So, you're also waiting for kind of one last potential rip here to uh give us a little bit of a shortterm local top.

>> Yeah, I mean for for this for this month and then then I do think that we that we correct into October and then I don't know whether it's like um October is going to be like a complete month of consolidation or that we're going to like see a bullish second half of October. Um, but I'm I'm I'm quite positive like on Zcash I do potentially see the trend to last in like until Christmas basically everyone talking about like do like a December 2017 where everyone is talking about their Zcash at the [ __ ] Christmas dinner table [laughter] >> and and then it just then it just starts like a 80% correction, right?

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Because I mean this run started from 225 on those lows. And so we get up to 2500, >> you're talking a 10x in six months. So >> yeah, I mean it's Zcash. If you look at this at its structure, I think this month's top is going to create a pullback and then it's then it then it should be ripe for basically its last leg up. If you count if you count like if you use like some kind of like Elliot way theory, it would make a lot of sense that >> October is the low and then it has like one or two months into the end of the

year to kind of finish this thing off. It's going to be completely like uncorrelated to to Bitcoin. Um it's going to push basically Zcash is this thing that no like half the people or 70% of the people still think it's like some kind of shitcoin. It's a scam. They don't know what kind of upgrades have been made, how awesome the technology is. Um, there's a lot of hate and cognitive dissonance towards it. So, the only way that's going to end up is with all that short exposure getting completely obliterated.

>> Jeff, do you think this time is different and we do have altcoins leading the cycle? I know you've seen the the map and the charts by secrets of crypto and the OGs that are out there and you know the the idea that Bitcoin tends to lead then you get Ethereum then you get majors then you get an alt season. >> Do you think we're going to we're going to just kind of run the same playbook. Bitcoin's going to lead and then we're going to go down the line like usual or do you think this time's a little different?

>> Well, let me just really quickly check. Um, like I just had to check a chart. >> Mhm. >> So, >> um, >> don't worry. Everything's pumping, man. >> Yeah, everything is pumping. No, I I was just checking checking the charts for what whatever what you were saying. >> Um, >> what chart what chart were you checking? >> Eth BTC just to just just to see like >> fantastic by the way.

Um, I think odds are in a in a in a The one thing we've seen is we had 1010. 10 10 kind of like rinsed out a lot of the zombie [ __ ] and now the open interest is in the quality coins, right? So we we're back at we're back at um OI to market cap ratios that we saw at 1010, but the open in the total altcoin open interest is half of what it was.

>> So we're basically betting but we're only betting on far fewer coins. >> And these coins, they're actually doing actual [ __ ] They're powering this financial system that we're moving towards too. That is not kind of created by Wall Street, but it's actually coming out of our own corner. So obviously there's there's going to be leaders here like Ccash is leading um because Ccash is the bet that Bitcoin is too oified to change in time and we're probably going to need a privacy enabled coin if Trump loses the election. Right. So this

is this is the second one. If Trump loses the election, Zcash is going to moon. Mark my words. >> Really? >> Yeah. in two years >> in 2028 for the presidential election. >> No, no, no. The midterms. >> Will Trump lose the midterms? >> The Republicans the Republicans are going to lose the midterms. >> Is that I mean, >> yeah, that's pretty much a guarantee how things are looking. >> By the way, I can't tell if you're And I think that there's a comment here. Why does this guy sound American, Scottish, and Australian at the same time? I can't I have no idea, and I'm not going to ask for your own privacy, but I thought that was funny.

>> Yeah. [laughter] Oh, that's true. Yeah. >> Okay. >> What about this? One last thing on Zcash Rob. What about this whole like anthropic everyone's going to die tweet that just dropped? Did you see that? >> Yeah, I saw it. >> How do you relate the AI doom? I saw a tweet. It was like AI doom equals Zcash boom. I think it was from like one of the Winkls. It was >> I've been I've been an investor in in in a startup for 10 years now. uh I've shoved way too much money into it and um there is still no real product. I mean there's some products life and their focus has been to develop um a blockchain and and an auto blockchain to kind of make sure that we

get machine speed governance of AI where AI is in the hands of humans and not some corporate board where but still like in a capitalistic way that you know it's going to make [ __ ] money. So I do think that crypto is going to be the platform that's going to be required to um kind of govern AI. So that's kind of like the next big beta that's arriving where we're going to be front, left, and center to the solution of AI governance getting uncontrollable.

>> Okay. And so yeah, I I tend to agree with that take. I think >> you know there's a number of things with AI, but the you know at least the US has poured so much resources into this that they're not going to let it fail. Like the idea is that if you know some of these open AAI anthropic if they IPO and you know they're not looking too good or they have solveny issues because they're spending so much on compute. Yeah, they have a lot of revenue, but they have so much incompete expenses that the government is going to bail them out >> just like they did in the the bank 2008.

>> It's it's comparable to the great Manhattan Manhattan project, right? Uh the US has a massive massive money problem like that problem and the only way out is if this project, the AI project or whatever the the the great Manhattan 2.0 2.0 you know a project um achieves its goal right the US wants to be centric world leader in AI and if they do so they will have so much pro power projection on the rest of the world that they can actually [ __ ] fix their money problem if they don't and they tighten their their you know their money spraying um they're going to lose either way because they're going to lose

the the AI race and then they still have a debt problem so the only way out is in my opinion is that they kind of keep it afloat and do whatever is necessary and I do think that the reason why besend is kind of like trying to control the long-term yields is because that is kind of protecting um the the capex >> for yeah you know for anthropic and open and whatever >> they need they need like I don't know like a three trillion projection for next year and not a one trillion projection because if it's a one trillion projection for next year um that stock market is gonna crash and that's the one thing they cannot have.

So it's it's like on so many levels clear and then on top of that you right now you have like the bond market vigilantes who are definitely going to try and try and see if they can kind of like push Besson to um you know to go to war with him with them >> and I mean how do you hedge that? So you you have a plan. >> You have a plan. >> You're you're you're kind of like Soros, right? And you're going to like try and, you know, crash the the 30-year in the 10 year, the US 10 year.

[laughter] How do you hedge? How do you hedge that? So you're going to war with the biggest treasury of the world, and either you're going to pull it off or not. But one thing for sure is that you need you need an exit plan, right? >> Yeah. So >> yeah, >> that's that's kind of my reasoning why, you know, I don't see Bitcoin going down from here. Like because this is happening right now. It's not a speculative thing that might happen in the future with like the Bank of Japan like [ __ ] losing their grip on on their yields, which is which has been said for 20 years is going to be a massive problem if yields in Japan go like to 1%, 2%, now it's 3%. And nothing has happened yet. this here right now is about the US kind of like having to pour

in billions and billions and billions into a market whilst the other side is trying to break that market. >> Yeah, Rob, I mean I'm going to pull the screen up, pull a chart up. I want to show you a bit about how at least I chart. I think Rob's probably kind of similar. Um, and just start with Bitcoin here because Rob, this is kind of I mean this is part of the whole fiat debasement part of the barbell, right? All of what Jack's saying here. It's like, >> oh yeah, >> this is why you're saying that that is probably going to outperform the revenue generating businesses in the coming weeks if we get, you know, we already got these bond buys today, right? Six billion instead of four. And now, you know, if worse doesn't hike, like we're very clearly in a more accommodative

regime than we've been. Should be very nice for Bitcoin, gold, etc. And so, Jack, all I use on my charts is 20, 50, 100, and 200 day uh SMAS. And I pretty much just do horizontal lines, if that, but I really just try to track momentum and like try to identify longer term trades. So, I don't really go under the daily chart. I actually think the two day is a sleeper. And then the two days a sleeper because one you got to pay for it in Trading View, but two it's kind of unusual.

>> Um so I mean I think you can maybe see the screen but I'm looking at Bitcoin. >> Yeah, I can see it. It's super it's super tiny. Like I can't I can't um >> click click on it. It'll make it bigger. >> Yeah, if you click hit there. >> Ah, okay. Sweet. >> Nice. So we're kind of just chilling at resistance here. Like I mean again I'm a very basic guy like okay resistance line okay cool okay a pretty heavy 200 day up here okay cool that's at 85 so like [snorts] you're just saying we're just going to blast through this like you I just saw you you know going back and forth prior to coming on you were like I don't even

think we get to 75 >> 74 >> like I think 75 means that we're not going to blast through, right? Like I'm not going to bid 75 um if it comes. >> Okay. >> Like look at look at what happened. That line you drew. >> Yeah. >> First time we went through it from above. That was a massive massive reaction on on the way down. Then the second time as well. So essentially that level is telling us like there's something cooking, right? Um there's there's a a lot of selling that happened going through that level or touching that level. So twice there's been people that sold basically their entire stack

or got liquidated or whatever. So if we go above that level that's you know that's the level where everyone has to say okay I I'm I'm buying back right because so much supply was sold below that and through that level. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then when you're thinking about this, this to me is like my most important chart right now because this is ETH BTC >> and this is telling if we clear this 200 day on the on this two-day and again I'm a two-day guy to me we're off to the races across the whole board. Um, and we can confirm that kind of like if you go to the weekly that likely the bottom's in and I think we have a chance to kind

of go up to this weekly 200 day if we do get out of here. >> So, how do you like what do you read here? >> Similar if you go if you go back to like the daily >> Yeah. Um, and you [clears throat] you take a trend line from Yeah, one of the lower lower. Yeah, that one. >> Um, just just take the next one the next one to the right from the from the bottom like >> Okay. Yeah, this one. >> Yeah. and just, you know, >> add support and then locally we swept like inside that consolidation, we swept that that wick to the left like uh I don't know couple of weeks ago.

>> Yep. >> Um so we come off that trend line. Um the trend lines on ETHBTC have been quite accurate. You can see that on the way down as well. You can draw draw a few trend lines and they've been respected all the way. So to me this is just you know we we swept the lows of the local consolidation range and it's preparing to to go higher. >> Um so >> that simple >> for for me for me for me. Yeah that simple for me that goes to at least like >> to the top that we had earlier last last year. Um so like 04.

>> Yeah. >> Um could go higher than that. Um I mean ETH ETH is particularly was was more shorted than than BTC. That's also we also saw that in like the amount of like ad like automatic deleveraging that happened on on that massive pump we had. Um, so I think ETH is very underestimated, but it's probably one of the top picks when it comes to securing actual tokenized value because it's it just has a higher level of security than most of the other chains. So maybe you have ETH as the base layer to secure it and then you know some of the trading happens on L2s or is getting bridged to another chain or whatever. But ETH ETH

is ETH is a a great place if you want to store trillions, right? Um, I wouldn't store trillions necessarily on any of the other chains in that, you know, that in that with that much volume. >> Somebody asked your near target for the end of the year, but I mean whether you want to answer that or not, but just kind of more, you know, what are you thinking here >> on near? >> Yeah. Uh near is this odd one because it's kind of hard to predict its growth and it's got to a moment in its cycle where we need to judge near on its on its actual numbers instead of like where

it used to be more speculative in the past because the products are now there and the products are absorbing um like they're absorbing value at a at a very fast pace if that can like accelerate and they can start bridging their products to more and more corners of crypto and also outside of crypto when it comes to AI or look at what's you know what they're doing with Venice. So it's kind of really hard to predict and it's it's one of those that could do a Venice type of run >> more so than one of the others. So it could be very parabolic. Like I would not be surprised if it goes to like eight $9

um this year, but it could also peter out around like 425. It's it's it's this thing where it it's just one of the hardest ones to predict. It has had those rallies in the past that were super sharp. >> Yep. >> Um it has a lot more supply like circulating right now. So I think if you look at the chart it's a kind of like misleading a little bit but then again now it's actually having starting to see this adoption right. Yeah. So >> um there's going to start to be interest from actually outside of crypto as well once we have all this tokenization [ __ ] happening.

>> Uh there's going to be Wall Street people looking at it like hey you know I can make a a calculation on how much this is worth. Um so that's going to push money into it as well. And then like I mean look at what what Venice did. Venice pumped from 18 to 28 basically because there was some publication that >> Yeah man >> it was some publication where that where basically Venice was described and then someone actually somewhere outside of crypto realized okay what the [ __ ] this is Venice and then they kind of like bought a shitload of Venice. So that's that's possible with something like Near as well.

>> Yeah. Because Near powers Venice like Near's private inference is what powers Venice APIs. >> So it's very directly correlated. So the growth of Venice is bullish for Near. >> A couple other ones rapifier and then I know we're, you know, we're a little past time. We can let you go here. Um Hyperlquid. Um, I mean, I'm even, so I'm a log scale uh chart guy as well, just because I think we're early in the cycle. I think it gives you a better look and it allows you to raise your targets, you know, allows you not to be too bearish.

>> Um, >> yeah, this is like the biggest This is always the biggest trap people do when they're wrong about like when the cycle starts. But when you're correct about when the cycle starts, it's not a bad thing to do. >> Interesting. Interesting. So, I got this big green X here, but I'll just take that off. That's like my Q2 targets. What's your What's your read here? I mean, this looks just ridiculous. I think that it's waiting for Bitcoin to repric higher because part of the calculation of what hyperl is worth is basically volumes >> and the biggest volume is BTC and then the prices of other things that follow

BTC price more or less. So essentially if Bitcoin reprices towards like 97K that then it should like you know in that process it should start breaking out and I think then there might be like a speculative kind of push once some news is going to realize like the pretty much like what we've seen when when Trump mentioned hyperlquid. Um I do think I mean my target for the past month like a month ago I would have said okay we're going to 111 [laughter] but now we're now we're at like 86 and we're just been going sideways up like a slow bleed kind of like [ __ ] everyone up

with things okay now it's going and then it goes back down again. Um, >> so I raised my target to 128 where I take profit. >> And that's that's I don't know if that's conservative or not. I don't I don't think it's conservative because I think that Hyperlquid is not a coin that I think a lot of people who trade it are not very of the speculative kind, right? They're >> Yeah. Like I'm not even like this chart is important to me, but Robbie and I and we were just talking about this and Leo, we can kind of flip back over to us is we were like we've been tracking this asset for, you know, I don't know since the inception like we bought on the first day, the first hour, right? And so

obviously we didn't hold all the way through obviously, you know, that's unfortunate, but it is what it is. We made it some really good trades there. Um, but I don't really care. Like I don't even think I don't, you know, you were talking about unrealized profits. Looking at your P&L is like dangerous because you like get worried about your ups and downs. Hype my hype holdings and my per kind of like DAT holdings are the only assets that I pretty much don't ever except my Zcash is also kind of like way out of sight, out of mind. Um, I don't ever look at my P&L on it because I know it's just like it's a trap, you know?

Um, I don't know. Yeah, I think you're right. I think it's a much less like pump this now holder base. It's more like it's more like we're never selling holder base. It's it's that and then the people who actively trade it they they probably have a bunch of models that kind of like think about okay how much how much TVL and how much volumes are we capturing how much are we projecting uh how much of that can be sustained within for 6 months how how much of that can be s sustained for I don't know 24 months >> and ex exchanges are always challenging in the sense that there's always going to be a new exchange Right. We've seen that over and over again. You had BitMX

and then you had Binance and now you have Hyperlquid coming for this throne. Um and then I don't know like if if they get into the US that's going to be you know huge. We've seen that by that candle and I think once that goes live we we'll see another candle uh before that happens um because it's just capturing more more value, right? But at the end of the day, it's a business and it's about how much like revenue it's making, uh how much volumes there are, etc., etc., and it's being priced based on that. And and I think most of the holder base traded based on that. So you have way less speculative kind of like crazy people like maybe you have people who ape it, but then there's someone

with a much larger back who says like, "Okay, well, you're overpricing it, so I'm selling it to you." And then >> they just dump on you, right? So it's it's it's it's a much much slower asset depending on how fast the growth is. if at some point we do think it's going to match like Binance and it's clear it's going to match Binance or it's going to gonna take out Binance's market share like to you know basically non-existent um once we really think that it's obviously going to repric to like I don't know um to a thousand [clears throat] >> that's that's >> that's a great ending point Jack uh hype to a thousand obviously it's not exactly what you mean, but

>> I didn't say that. >> Yeah. Chad, thanks for your time. Um, what do you got planned for the rest of the week and the weekend? >> Um, well, a bit of sleep tonight and then tomorrow kind of be a bit anxious around those uh like around what what's that 8:30 a.m. Eastern time. >> Friday actually for the CPI. >> CPI, but tomorrow is PPI. Sorry. >> PPI. >> Oh, PPI. >> Um, yeah. I mean, there's going to be data points like every [ __ ] day from here on out. So, it's it's probably going to be a little bit of a a bit a little bit of a roller coaster.

And then hopefully during the weekend, um I do some more motorcycle classes. I'm trying to [laughter] I'm trying to get my motorcycle license and then uh I don't know, buy a mo motorbike. >> There you go. Love it. Beautiful. It's very cool. Well, Jack, man, it's pleasure to chat to you for the first time. Look forward to having you back maybe before the end of the year again. >> Um, or sometime Q1. >> You know, it'd be interesting actually to have you back on that pullback that we're going to get.

>> You know what I mean? I think I think people are going to turn bearish and like a lot of disbelief is going to come back in the market. >> Yeah. I mean, put put me on the show on the 23rd and we'll see >> of September or October. of September >> directly following the fall equinox. >> Big astrology guy. [gasps] >> Let's see. >> Big astrology guy. >> Let's see. Okay. Thank you guys for having me and um yeah, awesome to to chat in real real time for the first time. >> Absolutely.

>> Cheers, mate. >> Have you back again soon? Thanks, Jack. >> All right. Cheers. See you. >> Yeah, man. [cheering] >> That was bullish. [screaming] That was awesome. That was awesome. Um yeah. >> What do you think? >> How about the voodoo magic? I love it. I love it. I love it. But I I'm with it. Like there's like, okay, so let's just think about it. Business taxes that need to get paid, portfolio taxes that will need to get paid. And I have maybe 170 right now or something in short-term capital losses. I think that I can pull on maybe like 150.

>> Mhm. >> So, I think I think there's that this is this my issue though. I just need one more oomph. >> It's always just one more, buddy. >> You know what I mean? It's like I'm ready to pull the trigger now and just take the W and just be ready for a pullback with some cash. Mhm. >> But, you know, >> I mean, look, I I feel pretty good about my outward looking thesis. Uh, drisk into the FOMC, pump off of it, just a matter of how hard.

>> Jack seems to think, you know, later September we get a pullback, maybe a rip into a pullback. Um, I could understand that in the context of maybe the focus returning to the equities markets ahead of the midterms and Besson and the Fed and Trump, you know, kind of realizing that crypto people don't really care about midterms and whatnot and focusing more on the equities market and flow is kind of returning there. Um, >> I'm just so bullish, man. Like, I'm just I'm just so bullish. Like it's hard to just >> tell me tell me about your ETH position because it doesn't really fit. I'm bullish too, but it doesn't it doesn't

really fit into the hard money thesis or the revenue meta. >> Did you see the ETH BTC chart? >> It is unreal. It is just a purest speculation that ETH is going to outperform BTC on the next leg up to 93K. So, >> so if BTC goes to 93, we're talking about a, and I think he's right. I think 97 would be insane and a a big blowoff, but 93 would be a 18% move or so from here. And my take is that ETHBTC does a

I mean a potential for a 30% move against Bitcoin. So that would put Bitcoin. >> So that would put ETH at about a 40 to 50% move >> up to about mid 3000s. >> And I think that would be I would insane. >> Let me attempt to let me attempt to steal man your thesis. >> Okay. >> You're saying that um you know the the macro environment is going to do what it's going to do. >> Yeah. And we've got this tokenization super cycle in which the SEC has put forth a tokenization exemption for the biggest companies in finance to tokenize themselves, their funds, their equities,

their assets, their business offerings, and their revenues. And Ethereum is the primary place or venue for those tokenized assets to land. October is when the DTC, which custodies a quadrillion dollars of stocks every year, is going to launch its pilot program for tokenized assets in October. Also, at the end of October is the end of the comment period on the transfer agent proposal that Hester Pur put forth early in September. And so if we're looking at what Jack is saying and what Andy is saying and what the market is saying, we're treating these all as

confluence and and parsing it all out. We're saying that Bitcoin is going to appreciate as a result of this macro accommodative policy. But we could see that taper off on the heels of the midterms and focus could return to equities. And in the meantime, equities now takes on a bigger conversation. it. Now, equities now takes on the conversation of tokenized equities and Ethereum could be one of the primary benefactors of tokenized equities. And so as the liquidity environment starts to develop, Bitcoin realizes a lot of that appreciation, maybe starts to slow down

a little bit. The acceleration in the tokenized equities conversation and narrative only picks up steam, only picks up more momentum. And Ethereum is one of the primary beneficiaries of that conversation because that is when the transfer agent regulation that is when the DTC uh pilot program and that is when tokenized equities really hit an inflection point and start manifesting themselves on Ethereum. Ethereum benefits not only in a revenue standpoint but also as a monetary instrument to denominate tokenized equities to be the base asset of DeFi on Ethereum as Ethereum becomes the place of price discovery and the primary

trading venue for equities period. Man, I couldn't have said it better couldn't have said it better myself. The only other thing that I would add is that the tokenization exemption if that comes through right be after the clarity act fails the market will directly look to Ethereum to express the bullish bet on tokenization. And you said this, but it is a known fact like Jack said that the best way to be bullish tokenization is to be long ETH.

The market all knows that. Everybody knows that. But nobody wants to buy. >> Nobody wants >> No. I think no one wants to buy be until animal spirits are proven to exist. >> Bingo. When animal spirits exist, it's almost like this thing is in the room with us, but you can't really put your fingers on it. You can't really touch it or hold it. Meaning that like hard money has a real thesis and we can tie this, you know, A is happening and A to B and so B is going to pump, right? Because they're pumping tons of liquidity into the system. Hard money like Bitcoin and Zcash and gold are going to rip.

>> But then all of a sudden, you get this catalyst from the SEC. >> Well, I'm saying hold on. I I agree with you, but but I think this is a just a little bit of a different point, which is that the there's a direct correlation of a thesis that is driving flows to hard money. Similarly, there's a direct correlation of a thesis driving money into re the revenue meta. ETH, yeah, you could point out this tokenization exemption and this and that, but they're not really driving. >> It's stuck in the middle. But I think if animal if animal spirits exist, it's not bullish to be stuck in the middle. If animal spirits exist, I don't think it matters. What I'm saying is that why are meme coins ripping and like back in

previous cycles, why did some of these things go up? People couldn't really give you a good reason. You didn't really if animal spirits and momentum exists, you don't need a good reason. It's just like this very loose like LZ fair. Yeah, it's like the way to express this thing. But what do you It's like what even is the thing in a bold in a true bull market? It doesn't matter. The thing is going to go up regardless. You don't really need a direct correlation or catalyst. If you've got like this amalgamation of bullish momentum.

>> Yeah, I agree. If we get the catalyst, it's the cherry on top. Sure. >> I think 35 36 is aggressive. >> 3500 3600. >> I think 31 is very doable. If we get the SEC catalyst, I think 36 to 4K is on the table. >> If we get the token clip this, clip this. Clip this. Clip this. If we get if we get the tokenization exemption from the SEC, I think Ethereum has the chance to double in an extremely short period of time. We would get this exemption in the next one to two weeks. I think there's a

very very very probabilistic way to look at Ethereum as the most bullish way to express the tokenization bull thesis in one asset. I think it has the potential to double. I think 4K is in is in range if not a little more if the SEC tokenization exemption hits and Bitcoin is also pushing up. I think Ethereum could could absolutely fly. I think Chainlink does extremely well as the beta to Ethereum.

That's my take. >> Yeah, I can see it. think um I think Ethereum is the place to express bullishness on tokenization and very similar to the way in which people describe Zcash and Bitcoin as kind of like the you know oh if you're scared that AI is going to kill humans and take over the world you better buy Zcash. >> Yeah. >> Like okay. Yeah. because Zcash is like contrarian to the whole thing and it's private like okay sure but like how does AI taking over the world really translate into Zcash go up >> it like you can kind of paint you know

you can kind of like paint a picture [laughter] >> that like maybe makes sense correlation >> there but there's very little direct correlation right maybe there's like indirect implicit correlation if you take a few steps and jump through a few hoops and I think the same is true for Ethereum the tokenization. >> I totally agree. It is the moment and that's what Tom Lee is saying and in the bear we're all like Tom Lee's an idiot. Tom Lee is going on CNBC with no thesis and just telling us that tokenization and stable coins are going to blow up while Hyperlid's buying back 99% of its supply or of its, you know, assets with with the revenues. And now Tom Lee is about to look like a damn genius.

>> Oh yeah, I think so too. This innovation exemption is going to go through. [laughter] We're going to tokenize trillions of dollars of assets over the next like 18 months. I Tom Lee is going to be sitting on like 50 billion unrealized P&L. Tom Lee is going to hit 100 bill 100 bill unrealized P&L on his ETH. Like dead ass. I think Tom Lee is the best digital asset treasury manager >> outside of um Shamus. Shamus is the only guy >> they go banned for. They go banan for band. I mean maybe >> I think they're I think Hype Strategies is still >> uh I don't know now that Bitcoin and

Ether are up, they're going to start to really outpace >> Hype Strategies just because the size. >> But yeah, I mean we for a while we can portray this as like a competition or whatever. I think they're both doing an incredibly good job. And I think Tom Tom Lee is absolutely crushing it. And look, you know that I'm ve like a very, you know, fundamentals guy. You know, I like education. I like to understand why the market is acting a certain way. But I've come to realize that in a bull market, you know, the market can be irrational. You sometimes don't need a reason. And so, yeah, look, I I do think that Ethereum is going to just absolutely rip face and surprise a lot of people. And it doesn't have to be for any one good

reason. It's just because >> Yeah. >> Go ahead. >> I just like Jack's take on like, look, if we go to 7475, he's not interested. Like, I love that. It's like shove it in, get long, think that this is going to be a horizontal accumulation period. Maybe there's a slight fake out like a one candle, right? You know, tries to get you down to like 2200 just scare you real quick. But if that's not a V reversed instantly, then we're out. Then the we're going to we could go back to the bare market lows, you know? I just like that. I just like that take. Yeah, man. So Tom Lew's down five.

>> Yeah. I mean I but yet we're praising him for doing a terrific job because we're so bullish. ETH he was able to get >> Sailor number first and then Shamus and Hype Strategies. >> I mean sure but Sailor bought you know he started this thing so long ago he was able to get a much much earlier entry. >> No 100%. I um I don't necessarily think I think we could sweep the 70s, the low 70s, maybe the high 60s and still and still remain pretty bullish Bitcoin.

>> I like the I agree with that. It's just that Jack is up. He told me what he say 20x on his purpose account. Maybe 30x. >> He that might have been hyperbole, man. I mean, he said, >> you know, just we shared private DMs. That's not hyperbole. And like, yeah, I mean, he he's been posting his P&L curve. Like, it's it's nuts. Um, and for me, it's like he's looking to shove it right hard till September 23rd. He's not looking for a he's not looking for like a little interm pullback, you know, to play around with for a couple weeks and then go up. He's looking to shove it hard through middle of September. dump,

chill, consolidate for several weeks, get active again, and go hard till the end of the year. You know what I mean? I I I love that. It aligns with my life. That'd be [snorts] great. Little dump a couple weeks from now, rip it up now. Couple weeks, dump, chill for a bit of October, get out to Singapore, get out to the the Philippines, reestablish some nice spot positions and longs. Obviously holding through all of this and then just rip it for Thanksgiving and Christmas. I mean, Ze to 3K by Christmas would be that'd be a Christmas story. I'll tell you that much.

>> We've got a Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant tweet. >> Oh god. >> In July, I called on the Senate to advance the Clarity Act. >> Pulling it up. a bill to establish a comprehensive regulatory framework for digital assets and upgrade our ability to prevent bad actors from exploiting these critical technologies. When the Senate returns from August recess, I strongly urge everyone to remain at the negotiating table. Agree to the motion to proceed and continue the legislative process. Failing to do so would send a troubling signal to our allies and adversaries alike that America is unwilling to lead on the future of

digital assets and willing to forego enhanced national security tools to combat their misuse. Guys, national security tools, stable coins are national security tools. >> I got some stuff to stand on breaking news. Let's pull it up. >> [music] >> Look, I just want to say I just want to say if I'm wrong on the Clarity Act passing, I will eat my words. Like, please. I I want you guys to just tear me apart if I'm wrong. If it passes in September, we will be getting the biggest voodoo, magic,

astrology, equinox, god candle from the 15th to the 23rd that you guys have ever seen in your life. >> Just remember that the closure vote on Tuesday is not it passing. That's just to like open it for negotiation. >> Correct. I understand. when what if he started to run and led the meta this cycle with bit Bitcoin lagging due to quantum risk. >> Yeah, maybe. All right, so Bess, >> I mean, dude, this this screams desperate man.

>> Look, if the [laughter] bill was going to go through, >> if the bill was going to go through, >> he wouldn't have to tweet this. >> Oh my god. >> This bill ain't going through. >> The bill is probably not going to go through. He's been pushing this for months. You could pull up you could pull up dozens and dozens of tweets of him endorsing this. And the reason he's endorsing this is because he needs stable coins to buy bills. And he wants stable coin companies in the US buying shortdated bills so that he can twist the duration out of the bond market and get long-term yields lower and have financing for the US government in the short term. That's why he needs buyers for the bills and

that's why he wants stable coin companies to issue more stable coins and back those stable coins with bills that they buy from Bessant and the Treasury. It's all according to >> I get this. I get this. Like I said, the guy went on wherever Bloomberg and basically said I am the captain now. >> He said I am the house. >> I am the house. So this guy's ego is already through the roof. No one man controls the market. Let's get that straight. So now he's coming out and he's got a plan, right? And his plan is dependent on stable coin issuance booming. So what does he do? He goes in the timeline and cries. He's crying on the timeline right now because he's lost

control after egotistically like a politician would saying that he's the captain now like that one movie with Liam Niss pirate movie and he is out of control bond market straight green dildo after his buyback guy's lost it he's desperate and he's on the timeline crying for help that's my read >> embarrassing All >> [laughter] >> right, maybe not that hardcore, guys, but like someone's got to have a take here. I mean, come on.

>> My take is that the Treasury and the Fed are working together. They're going to suppress long-term yields. They're going to finance the government in the short term. And stable coins are a national economic priority. That's my take here. I think it's in the interest of the US government to pump your bags. And I think if you're long, I think the [laughter] US government is aligned. I think all of us are in the same positions. Trump said hyperlquid. Besson is talking about stable coin companies. Everyone is in the same positions. It's everyone is incentives aligned for everything to go up and they're running the same thing that they always do, which is twisting the duration out and printing money with bills. Yeah, >> I don't think we've ever gotten this level of alignment to the highest levels

of the government because now we finally have a Treasury Secretary and a and a and a and a Fed chair and a president and all these guys that basically put each other in power that now we're actually going to get like look, I'm not saying that this is the right thing to do by any measure, right? If you know you're in a different economic position and you're young and you see the debasement trade happening and you don't have assets to own, you are probably thinking they're stealing from me, the taxpayer, which they absolutely are.

Yeah. But if you realize this, wouldn't you be fighting tooth and nail to get a hold of as much Bitcoin as possible? >> Wouldn't you be looking to exit the system? >> This is what And we have. And so, look, never before have we seen the Bitcoin thesis be realized at at levels of the government so ingrained with the people that have control of the money printer and have control of the news cycle and have control of the narrative. Never before have we seen people >> that are incentive aligned to pump our bags >> y >> be in control at such a high level.

>> I'm with you guys. We got breaking news. Let's go ahead and hit the tab. We got breaking news here. Oh, we [music] >> not really, dude. I got like the the latest one, though. It's nice. Show whatever. It's just a phone. Um, you know, but these prices are pretty nuts. The fact that there's nothing under $1,000, nothing under $1,200 is just crazy.

like $1,200 is the most is the cheapest new iPhone. What's what has happened to this world? How how is there not a single iPhone available to purchase for less than $1,200 >> because you will own nothing and be happy? >> How is your finance single? >> Who Who's buying this? You're telling me the average American is just going to fork out $1,200? >> Do you When was the last time you bought a phone? They They're going to pay $25 a month for two years and all the cellular carriers are going to give them this special plan that lets them upgrade and

get $500 off. Yeah, I don't ever do any of that stuff. My parents always were like, "If you want to buy something, son, you buy it in cash." [laughter] I swear to God. That's why this is alarming to me because I'm like, "All right, no one wants the freaking 1199 one with the lowest amount of storage. You want to get like the at least like the upgraded storage options." So that's going to be $12.99, $1349. Then you throw tax in there, dude. You're looking at $1,500 for a new iPhone. Are you Are you kidding me? >> Yeah. You're going to pay it over two years and you're going to trade in your old iPhone like a car. So you're looking at 1,500 bucks.

>> True. divided by 24 months, you're looking at 60 bucks a month. Take off, you know, 500 bucks for the one you're turning in. >> It's pretty, >> pretty wild. >> A,000 bucks over, you know, >> this foldable phone. I don't like it at all. It also looks massive in the hand. No, >> it looks It looks >> It does look a little B. Is that unfolded or is that fold? I don't understand how it's got a >> That's when it's folded up. This is gross dude.

>> I don't I don't like it. I like the rectangular one that I have now. But if it was folded up but stayed a rectangle, this almost looks like a square. This How is this going to fit in anyone's pocket? Also, how much thicker is it going to be? Apple's just kind of been sliding a little bit into the news, but I mean, [laughter] so um you guys know that all the boomers got rich off of the inflated stock market, right? That's why everything's so expensive. You guys know that, right?

That's why we're paying 50. Like, this image right here is exactly why we're paying $1,500 for a new iPhone. >> [snorts] >> Like, I mean, this is it. The boomers got into this and they printed a 30X and now they're charging you $1,500 for an iPhone. Yeah. Great. Great. Look at this. Wow, dude. That is gross.

That is like an iPad. Bro, if you're walking around in New York City with that thing, you're getting that thing smashed out of your hand. [laughter] Straight up banged right out of your hand. Dude, this is not This is not going to work. >> Oh, yeah. >> I bet they hit like record sales. Like they hit like biggest sales ever of the new foldable iPhone. Apple earnings Q4. The the launch was the most successful launch. I um I've Have you tried like there's a I forget what Samsung or Android or whatever it is that folds right now. What is this?

Can't wait to pay for one of these. [laughter] I bet Samsung's are ugly. Marcela says, "I you know what I but I've tried it and it's weird. Like it doesn't feel like glass screen. It's like a weird like like plastic feeling almost. >> This is a I'm going to send it."

>> So I I wonder if uh I wonder if Apple's foldable is uh is going to be like the same feel. >> This tweet is giving thread guy. [laughter] I I sent him a tweet on his stream today and he was like, "Shout out Rollup. Shout out Andy." Shout out to E3 guy. Here's the video. This is iPhone Duo. To tell you more about the thinking behind the duo's design, here Molly and Steve. >> Dude, I [music] want beautiful Molly and Steve man.

Put Molly and Steve away. [laughter] >> C is 1290. >> Let's see what the chat say. What's the chat saying? What's the chat saying? Everyone's streaming everything these days. If you're offering someone a chance to have a mobile TV with them, they're going to take it. Yes, it is. China has a trifoldable phone. Jeez, that's a lot. >> Like a brochure. >> Yeah. All right, guys. Quick break. We'll be right back. Um, that's the iPhone new [music] [music]

[music] We get deep. We get know we get deep. We get deep. We know we get deep.

We get deep know we get deep know we get deep know we get deep [music] we get deep know we get deep [music] >> well I don't think I'll buying the iPhone Duo, but I'm sure people will. I'm sure the stock's going to rip. It's just kind of classic behavior there. Um, all right, guys. We got a couple more things. Uh, daily equity wrap up here.

Um, it's been a big big day, fun day. Um, I don't know what's happening to my Twitter, but I'm exploding right now. Um, >> it's been going viral. It's been good. >> Yeah, it's been good. It's been good. Okay. Uh, daily equity. Let's get it and then we'll wrap up, guys. >> [music] >> Tokenized equities have generated 20.3 billion in spot decks trading.

>> This is nuts. >> Over the past year with weekly activity accelerating sharply in the recent months. If you go ahead and click on the image there, uh we'll get a better view. And >> I think this is absolutely unreal. I mean this is the tokenization super cycle that we have been talking about for months. We knew this was coming. >> I mean yeah look at this. >> Look at this. >> I mean this is absolutely >> look at those graphs. >> This is a new asset class that is >> being brought on chain. And what is the implications of this? It is the DeFi protocols that have been here and proven resilient with cryptonative tokens. Yep.

Now absorbing a flood of new liquidity as a result of a new quality asset class to the tune of trillions of dollars. chain >> and so yeah sure it's only 20 billion so far but we've already seen the kind of financial experimentation that is happening and now this is going to happen at scale and it's going to be on top of all the existing infrastructure that has already been here this is the tokenization super cycle and this is DeFi getting rerated for an asset class to the tune of trillions of dollars >> yeah I mean the volume numbers are insane obviously the amount of new equities coming on chain is nuts. The different ways um it's just like it's exploding and if

we get this tokenization exemption, it's going to absolutely explode. So, look, I'm long tokenized stocks. I'm long tokenization. I think there's a lot of ways to express that thesis that we've been talking about, but this is insane. I mean, this is just going to keep happening. So look, >> at what point >> think you just Yeah, I just don't think they want to get in front of this train. >> No, absolutely not. And who I I think that's important. And you might think, who's not who's getting in front of this train? Well, it's the CEOs of companies that have no idea what is happening and they don't want it to happen. Y >> and so, you know, the CEO of AMC, this, you know, movie theater group, the CEO

of XYZ company who is afraid of tokenized equities. They're the ones getting in front of this train. They complain to Vlad and they complain to the SEC. Meanwhile, you know, the chairman of the SEC is just kind of floating out there supporting this kind of everyone in the regulatory standpoint supports the tokenized equities buildout. So, it's pretty wild that we have this regulatory regime. They support this buildout. We've seen maybe a fifth, no, no, no, maybe 2%, right? out of a trillion dollars, we've got like 2% that has gotten tokenized and we're already seeing the financial experimentation. The tokenization exemption is explicitly as it pertains

to mutual funds and some of these funds if that comes on chain and then you end up with like actual securities that you can lend against and put in them put them in these per platforms, use them as collateral, use them in these lending markets. I mean, we're talking, you know, not just the spot capital markets for these equities. We're talking levering those up. We're talking using those as collateral, an order of magnitude of capital efficiency higher than what is currently offchain, which is already trillions of dollars. And so, just the sheer amount of liquidity that is getting created, the credit, think about how money is implemented both onchain and offchain. Y

>> it's loans, it's lending, it's credit. And once you have tokenized forms of capital that is that are compatible and composable with lending onchain lending markets, you get the capacity to create credit onchain. And what have we been preaching since the start of this show? A dollar onchain tends to stay on chain. And now the point of credit creation [snorts] >> starts on chain which mean it's more likely to stay on chain throughout the life cycle of that dollar. So I think this is incredibly bullish. Obviously you can look at these equities and you can look at the memecoin shenanigans and you know you can participate in the markets that way. But I think this is

going to have effects throughout the ecosystem, throughout DeFi, throughout the blockchains, throughout the protocols, both in the equities markets, and in the cryptonative asset class. You can choose to participate this in pretty much any way, shape, or form and reap the rewards of this this movement. So I'm I'm extraordinarily excited for what's to come because I think we're start already starting to see some of those non-skeumorphic use cases of tokenization. >> No one could have predicted, right? So obviously everyone predicts the skuorphic just increase in TAM, right?

You get a trillion dollars onchain, you get a trillion dollars more in DeFi. And it's very predictable what happens as a result of that. No one could have predicted memecoins getting paired with stocks, getting airdrops, getting all this. that is entirely non-skeorphic. >> Yeah, man. It's the tip of the iceberg of the experimentation which I think is the most exciting part. Ladies and gentlemen, that is our daily equity for the day and we are coming to the end of today's show. It's been a great show. Um guys, stay long, stay strong. You heard Jack, you heard the rest of the folks that that we've had on. We really want to see BTC hold up here.

Looks a little shaky, but then it could just rip. Hold the line. Spot positions, low leverage, if any at all. Zoom out. Multimonth to year-long trades. Long-term capital gains tax. Trying to optimize for multibaggers. Trimming on the rips. We got PPI, CPI, Fed meeting, and Bitcoin Jack's voodoo magic to prepare for. W's in the chat. W's in >> the chat.

And >> we'll see you tomorrow. We've got a fantastic new >> We've got a massive virtual near day tomorrow and we're also unveiling a new product from the rollup or a new the beginning of a new product on the roll. That being said, guys, >> not not gonna want to miss that one tomorrow. >> We will be the we we will be on stream for a while tomorrow. It'll be a great show. I'm looking forward to it. You're looking forward to it. We're all looking forward to it. Stay long. Stay strong. Peace. [music] [music]