The best crypto and AI investment, and whether Saylor is Bitcoin's biggest risk

Transcript

The reason that we've built DeFi is we've basically built a better financial system, right? And so we need to go use that better financial system for the things that need financing in the world, right? And right now, the biggest financing thing we've ever seen in history is compute and AI. Bitcoin has dipped back below 60K as ETF outflows surge. Is this the bottom? Are we about to spend summer in Goblin Town? Hello and welcome to the Milk Road Show, the podcast that is having Teral Luna flashbacks every time we look at the STRC charts. I'm your host, John Gillan.

Today is Thursday, June 25th, and today we are back with another episode of the Milk Road Pro analyst crypto research meeting. Once a week, we huddle up to talk about what's up in crypto, and it's usually not prices these days, but I always learn a lot from these conversations. Hopefully, you all will, too. So, if that sounds good to you, make sure you like and subscribe. Share this episode with somebody who's going to enjoy it. Today's episode is brought to you by BitGet Stocks 2.0 with real liquidity, real dividends, and Nexo. Earn interest, borrow, and trade crypto. Without further ado, let's try to save Bitcoin. Gentlemen, welcome back to the Milk Road Pro Research Meeting. Uh, Bitcoin has lost 58K. Are you all feeling worried here, bullish, patient?

What What's your outlook on things today? Kyle, let's start with you. What are you What are you seeing this morning? Uh well, I just noticed that crypto had fell this much this morning, just before we clicked record. I'm bullish because the Micron earnings from last night. It has nothing to do with crypto, but like yeah, I think from a bull market perspective in the equity market, I'm extremely bullish, which makes me very bearish on crypto as a result. >> Well, the market agrees with you, Martin. How are you feeling this morning about Bitcoin and crypto and what's got your attention today?

>> I think Bitcoin is getting into very attractive levels. I think I'm going to start buying some Bitcoin around 50 55k or so. So like lately I was more tactical about my portfolio, but there's also some portion which I don't want to be, you know, active that much. And so like if I can get more Bitcoin at like I don't know 55K that seems pretty reasonable and I would like to add more to my Bitcoin bags at these levels and it keeps falling down I will be just adding more and for some other things when I'm going to maybe reallocate my capital back into crypto from some place

like you know uh AI memory chips. uh I don't have micron but I have a skyhanix which is uh maybe even better company but anyways the point is that maybe at some point if there is a peak in in that equity market and I don't see a much upside and I might be able to reallocate back but I want to see that there is more people interested in bitcoin rather than just me and you know sailor trying to uh do his magic and keep bitcoin uh high but it's not happening these days.

So yeah, I think we need to >> I don't think cares about >> keeping Bitcoin high. I think he's trying to keep stretch from collapsing. Yeah, >> which uh just before we hit record was sitting at 70. What did I say? 76 or something. It is at open anyway. It's back up to almost 79 now. So it's getting bought up. Um it went all the way down to 73. Wow. Um but it's now back up to 79. So interesting to watch that play out. We'll see if that uh if that continues. >> Guys, listen. We are at a very crucial point in time right now. AI stocks have ripped. They're going to keep ripping.

Our analysts on the AI side are up like literally 100% or more on quite a few calls. And crypto is about to boom again, or at least it feels that way. If you want all the insight on what we're buying, what our analysts are doing, what's on their watch list, all of that is in Milkroad Pro. to join at the link below. >> Do you think that he's going to be able to get that to rep? There's been a lot of speculation that he might have to sell like three or four billion dollars worth of Bitcoin at a single clip in order to get the market to kind of calm down and kind of get that to to repe to that $100 par. Do you think he's going to do that? Do you think he's going to let it ride and hope the market corrects

it on its own or what do you think he's going to do here? >> I mean, I don't know. Um, I don't know why selling billions of Bitcoin would make the market like happier about this. Um, I think it would probably do the opposite. Uh, I understand the reason is cuz he would have more cash so he can pay more of the dividends, but I don't think that that's really going to bring more trust or excitement into just the ecosystem of of strategy in general. I also don't know that the thing I can't really understand is does it matter that it's this slow?

Like does he need to do anything to fix this? And I don't think that he does. It's not like this is like a thing that you can use to like go you need to you know has to be at a dollar or 100 bucks I guess is their par because it's a payment stable coin or whatever, right? Like it doesn't like I just I don't know that it need he needs to do anything. I think he can just wait and he doesn't have to sell anything. It's not a stable coin. It's that's the thing I think most people are missing. Again, obviously it sucks that it's down here and it sucks for the people that are holding this. Um now again, if they don't sell, doesn't matter. They're still getting their full dividends. Um so the reason they bought is still the same. The thing that sucks

is they can't exit or if they did, they're down 20% at this point. So, like I understand that problem, but like I don't know that he has to do anything irrational to like save this in a day or two days or 3 days. I I think he can just wait. So, you know, maybe I'm missing something there, but I don't know. That's just my initial reaction. Um, and then, you know, the lower this goes, like I imagine the reason that people bought this at 73 is cuz now they're getting a, you know, a 27% uh return on their investment plus an whatever it is, 11 12 or 12% dividend.

um which is pretty juicy. Um but yeah, I still I've never bought or anything in Stretch or Micro Strategy at that. But um yeah, I don't know what's gonna happen here. What do you guys think? >> I think you're right. I think he can just let this ride for a while, but I think it also is something where he doesn't want to have to. Um and there's just a lot of speculation because nobody's really had a product like this before that's been in this sort of situation. And I think that the market is basically saying like, "Hey, we'd like to see you have more cash on hand to be able to fund these uh these dividend payments." Um, but I I I don't know. I don't know what he's going to do. I I think that the idea is that if he sells some Bitcoin, he'll

recapitalize the company without penalizing his common stockholders of MSTR. But he also recently sold a bunch of MSTR at the market to raise money to buy 500 more Bitcoin. So yeah, it's like I I'm not really sure what's going to happen here. I think it's an interesting thing to watch, but I think the thing that's interesting to me is that it seems to reveal that people have been buying STRC with money that like it seems like there's just some leverage that's getting washed out basically. Um, and I'm not sure if it's it's on sailor's end, but it's more on like the people who've been buying this and getting getting levered up to do that.

It seems like people are taking capital out of the market and like just like pulling back in general on their exposure to Bitcoin and crypto here. So yeah, I think it's one of these things where it's like I agree with you. It's not like Ter Luna. It's not quite the same as losing a peg, but it's something that the market is like really uh like sending a clear message that they don't feel a lot of confidence in in his ability to continue to fund it right now. So that's what that's what the the the message that's coming through is. And you know, I think that's why people are wondering if he's going to sell Bitcoin to like kind of calm those fears and and bring back capital to to support it. But um yeah, I don't know. Martin, do you do you uh do you have any takes

on this? >> I think it comes down to the question, who are the holders? Are those like, you know, sophisticated institutional investors who who knows the game or are those mainly like retail people who jumped on train and now they're panicking and selling? I'm afraid it's a letter. So >> what's the other um >> preferred stock that not Micro Strategies but the other companies? Strive. >> Straa. >> Straa. Is that what it's called? Or SATA. >> Yeah. >> SA. >> Yeah. SATA. Yeah. Right. Those are different products from Strive.

>> Yeah. It's also down at 87 at the moment. So interesting. They're both they're both kind of falling apart here, >> right? Yeah. Um well uh in terms of a Bitcoin bottom I I think uh something I've heard people saying is that Bitcoin's over realized price which is the aggregate cost basis of all the circulating supply is down around 54k 53k somewhere in that area right now. Um I've heard this from Michael Nato. I did an interview on this channel a couple days ago with Julio Moreno from CryptoQuant and he was pointing at that and saying that that might mark the floor here. But I've also heard people calling for Bitcoin at like $40,000 or lower. Do you guys have any thoughts on

that? Do you think we're getting close to the bottom here or do you think that we might have a pretty significant like room to fall further on Bitcoin's price here? Martin, let's start with you. What you said you're getting interested in accumulating these levels. Do you think we're near the bottom? >> I think so. Definitely closer to the bottom than to the top. Um >> yeah, you know, I was worried we thought we were at the top here. So >> mathematically we actually are cuz the top was what 125 and we're sitting below 60. So we are literally closer to zero than we are to 125.

>> Great. Well that makes me feel there's strong support at zero. I I've heard that's a that's there's a lot of buy support there. Um anything else to add on that Martin or you just think close to the bottom? I think the problem of Bitcoin is that there is just better opportunity at this very moment and people are taking advantage of that and so it's not like you know Bitcoin failed or anything like that it's just cap capital moved away and it will it will flow back eventually I don't know when but eventually and so like you know when we look like in 10 years when we look back and we will see this you know huge correction it will be like wow that was a great opportunity, but people sometimes miss missed the

context. So like but back then there was AI and you know Micron just reported like very very strong results and like it's probably the next earnings are going to be also very impressive and like it's not just next few quarters it's next few years are going to be very good for Micron and it's just like it just tells you where the attention and capital is and where it should be. So it's it's it's very it's very well allocated because it just makes sense. And so like again back to my my question in 10 years Bitcoin will be much much higher maybe close to $1 million and like people will forget this moment but like you know if

you are long-term holder you don't need to do any moves and just accumulate more and and you'll be fine I think. >> Kyle, what about you? Are we going to bottom here somewhere in the 50s or do you think we're going to get even lower than this down into the 40s somewhere? >> Oh man. Uh, I have no idea to be completely honest. >> Micron earnings. Micron earnings, right? >> No, I I I don't know. It's It's hard to say. I think um I agree that there's just better opportunities out there. So, that's why people are not buying Bitcoin right now. And I don't know when that stops. Um, I think many people have been saying that's going to stop every quarter. And then Micron earnings comes out and just absolutely blows it out of the water and says that we've got a

decade long memory demand cycle because of, you know, additional things like humanoid robots, etc. And everyone gets super bullish and Micron's up 10%. Uh, and it's a, you know, that's a thing's a trillion dollar company already. Uh, and so you can just see that the capital is flowing, continuing to flow into the AI infrastructure buildout. Um, and that's just sucking in all the capital. Uh, and so I just, it's so hard for an asset like Bitcoin, which doesn't trade on fundamentals in terms of like revenues and buybacks, things like that, it's so hard for it to gain any like momentum um because that's what it trades on is momentum.

But the momentum is all elsewhere right now. And I don't know when that stops. And so, um, Bitcoin doesn't have a floor like other assets do in terms of, um, you know, like fundamentals, in terms of revenues and buybacks. It just doesn't have that. So, this thing could go much lower. You know, I have no idea. Um, I'm still bullish on Bitcoin long term. Like, I don't think this is just like the new world where we just we only buy compute and Bitcoin's dead. Um, I don't see that is what's happening. I just Yeah. In the short term, I just I don't know. I have no idea how low this thing will go.

>> Yeah. And it's it's >> a lot of it is gonna depend on Sailor right now, I think. Right. Because you can see Bitcoin's kind of moving along with the stretch price. >> Yeah. No, I think that that's a big thing that's driving fears. And I think that because there's this overhang of how is he going to solve this problem. A lot of capital is a little bit hesitant to to move with size into Bitcoin until these things sort of rep or get resolved in some way. Um, personally, I I'm in the camp with Martin. I've got bids at 58K for the culture um because that's a little bit of a meme in crypto and then 55K because I think we might see that level 54 55K um or you know the realized price of 53K but I'm like pretty intent on not missing the opportunity to buy

that dip. And so I'm not trying to like get that 53k like peak bottom there. Um, I'm just just going to try to get filled at 55 and um, if we go lower than that, I will set some more bids and keep accumulating because I have a long-term view on this and just like Kyle and Martin both said, I think the capital will come back and when it does, it'll the uh, people who were able to patiently accumulate spot here without leverage will get rewarded really well. I think I want to ask you guys about Ethereum. There has been a lot going on in the Ethereum ecosystem that I think a lot of people are not really paying close attention to, but the Ethereum Foundation laid off 20% of its workforce this week and announced that they're reducing their budget by 40%. At the same time, a lot of researchers who have

recently left the Ethereum Foundation uh are forming a new um digital asset treasury companybacked nonprofit called ETH Labs. And the idea here is to develop Ethereum, but also kind of be the number go up organization. Um I'm curious if you guys are following all this. Are you bullish or bearish on these changes for Ethereum? And what would you like to see from this new organization, ETH Labs, here? Kyle, let's start with you. What are your thoughts on ETH and and what's been going on here? >> I just don't know what these organizations are really going to do to help Ethereum at this point. Like the world knows about Ethereum. It's been around long enough. People are using it or not using it. And I just don't know that a a new lab is going to make a huge difference. Ethereum is so big already.

So like, do we really need another organization? You know, we had Etherealized and everyone said that was going to change it. Uh, now we have ETH Labs and everyone's like, "Okay, this is the new thing." Well, then we had like Sharink and Bitmine and everyone said, "Okay, that's going to change it." And now we have ETH Labs and it's like I I don't know. I'm still I don't really see how it's going to make a big difference for for Ethereum. I think what makes a big difference for for crypto and why I I think the better place to be holding your your capital within the crypto ecosystem is things like Robin Hood or Coinbase or Galaxy because I think these are the companies that are actually making a difference in crypto uh in terms of building real products and um and bringing that to real customers. Um

otherwise like I don't think the like Ethereum Foundation, the ETH labs like I I don't know. I just don't really see what the difference it's going to make anytime soon. >> Martin, what about you? What are you seeing in all of this? And do you think that there's going to be something that moves the needle that comes out of this this new organization? >> Well, obviously the more BD the better for any asset, right? So, uh I think it's positive, but it's not like I agree with Kyle. I don't think it's going to make a huge difference. But like for me, I think we were discussing this before.

Why are people leaving EF and what's the real reason behind that? And I said back then that I I don't really like that because I think when people when investors underwrite some technology, it's mostly about the team who is behind that technology and you need to make sure that those are the best people in the industry. That's why people you know love Ellen Musk because he is just magnet for the best talent in the world and like for Ethereum when people like a very good people experts in that specific domain are leaving EF to do whatever uh it it's for me sort of a

yellow flag because I don't I don't like it. Maybe there was a good reason for kind of do another restructure of Ethereum Foundation, but I don't really know. But overall, uh I was I think it was negative news for the whole community. I think you John disagree with that, but that that's okay. We can all have different opinions. But uh for Ethereum I think they really need to ship uh much much quicker and because we all understand the end game it's there it's the road map is ambitious enough I like that but it needs to happen you know uh

much sooner not in 2030 or I don't remember what's the the final version of Ethereum. So and then again there is that AI but I think once the sentiment changes and people will get more interested in crypto again I think atrium still has a chance to you know get new new buyers for sure and also last comment here is retail side of crypto might be dead but institutional side of crypto has never been better so like you can see everyone is building on top of crypto and it just makes sense and I'm actually writing a piece about I'm very bullish on all all the apps that have um very big user bases because

there is a lot of question and uncertainty about you know all the business models and how durable they are in this new AI agentic economy and I think that the apps with huge uh users distributions they can not only leverage AI but they can also at some point start to leverage blockchain because for example Example, Uber spends a billions of dollars just for car payments because if you order some food, then there is always so so many intermediaries. So if you pay 10 bucks, you know, uh the the merchant only get like 97 96% of that and the the 3 4% goes to those intermediaries. So I think like you know

if these big these applications can remove these intermediaries and just you know provide some blockchain features to keep higher margins for themselves. I think that's that's the opportunity and that institutional crypto adoption is something that I pay attention to and also want to mention Figure because I feel like that's what everyone's missing and figure is probably the the highest growing crypto app right now. It's not for retail, not necessarily. It it works both ways. It's a marketplace for institutions as well. So you can issue loans using their uh figure connect but it's growing like crazy months over

months and I think not many people talking about figure. >> Martin would you like to talk about figure more? We could we can talk about figure more if you'd like to. When you say it's growing like crazy month over month. Uh do you mean in terms of revenue or users or what exactly is growing? The product is called figure connect and it means that any any bank any financial institutions can go there and launch their own loans or just issue any debt on uh figure connect and what it does is a marketplace essentially. So like as Uber is a marketplace for you know drivers and the people who are looking for a ride then figure connect is the same way but for loans origination. So some people want to

originate loans and then there are some lenders who want to buy these loans and so they are growing pretty quickly and I think it's pretty interesting story. So um yeah I pay attention to the growth. I think they are growing right now 8% months over months and like you know people say there is crypto there's bare market in crypto but it doesn't apply for everyone and especially not for companies who are I would say leveraging this technology in in a good way to deliver you know better superior products.

>> Yeah. So I think my thoughts Oh go ahead. >> Yeah. Yeah, I was going to say if there's one thing good about these crypto prices going down, it's that it's making Galaxy a beautiful buy. Uh because Galaxy continues to I mean so Galaxy you guys know has the AI side, the data center side uh and then it has the crypto side. And at least our feeling is the data center side is very undervalued because of the drag of crypto. And um yesterday we found out that Galaxy has purchased and got approval uh purchased land and got approval for a um a data center in is it McGregor, Texas, I believe. Um and I think it's I don't have the full details. Maybe another 500 megawatts or

something like this. And so this is a huge development that we didn't really know that they were going to build outside of Helios and and now they have a whole different yeah data center that's coming in. And so I think the value of Galaxy should be much higher, but it continue. I mean, it's down 2% because crypto's down. So I guess there's one good thing, which is that it keeps undervaluing this company Galaxy that you can keep buying into. And eventually at some point when crypto, you know, decides to relax, uh, Galaxy is going to be repriced much higher, I think. >> So Kyle, I wanted to ask you this between these three, right? like between Galaxy, Coinbase, Robin Hood, I know you're bullish on all of these in sort of a longer term way. Who do you think is is winning in the horse race right

now? Which one are you most bullish on at the moment and why? >> Well, I think they're very different. I mean, Galaxy at least is very different from Coinbase and Robin Hood. So, I would say Coinbase and Robin Hood are are are very much competitors uh in the sense that they're trying to be the everything financial app. I know Galaxy recently launched what was it? Galaxy whatever the their own little trading app as well. Um but I don't think it's their main focus. And so um their main focus is like um you know different products for for um institutions that are coming into crypto and want to hold or trade or loan um and borrow uh crypto assets. But Robin Hood and Coinbase are definitely converging to be uh similar taking a different approach. Robin Hood obviously came from more the equity world um and and then integrating crypto

whereas Coinbase started crypto first. they're more blockchain and cryptonative. Um they have different features that um Robin Hood doesn't have like um integrating morpho so you can take loans against your bitcoin obviously stablecoin functionality things like that. So um different approach I think Robin Hood is is the winner right now just because they have a lot more users and so they can bring in more capital and we'll see if they're able to ship in uh at a high level of using blockchain to sort of like hollow out their company and and create better profits. They've slowly done this, but not at the scale that that Coinbase has.

Coinbase um is doing so I think Coinbase is losing on that regard of just like being the the everything app. What I think Coinbase is really going after and probably has a lead in and why I like Coinbase is they're going in the direction of instead of humans, they want to bank agents, right? And so they're, you know, that's what their stable coin ecosystem that they're building is for is really to unlock agents. They've built wallets for this. they have the X402 or whatever it is. Um, so like they're really going in the the Aentic ecosystem and being like a financial platform for them. Um, and I do think that they're they're the leader in that and crypto obviously and stable coins is a huge beneficiary of that. So I think um I think Coinbase is they're

starting to do things a little bit differently and then Coinbase also has the institutional side uh which which Robin Hood has a lot less of but more you know Galaxy does. So, I just think if you're going to hold crypto, I I think you're better to hold Galaxy Hood and Coinbase than you are to hold Bitcoin, ETH, and whatever, Hyperlquid, or Salana or whatever. Um, because you just have you still have the upside of crypto. Um, and actually in the bull market the last three years, Coinbase outperformed all the other assets. It outperformed Ethereum. It outperformed Bitcoin. It didn't outperform Soul if you bought Soul at the very very bottom.

Actually, maybe it did. I can't remember. I got to look into that. But it outperformed most crypto assets in the bull market. And so it's like if you want to get upside to crypto, why not just get upside to a a business that actually has diversified revenues and does have a real floor, right? And same with Robin Hood. It's it's a lot less crypto upside, but it does grow and and its price kind of exceeds what its um existing business does when crypto is doing really well, but it has a lot less downside. Uh and then Galaxy, same thing because the AI side. So, I feel like it's just a more diversified way to to get exposure to crypto is to just hold those three.

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you can earn interest on your crypto, borrow against it without selling, and trade a wide range of assets all in one place with 24/7 support and institutional grade security. Oh, and by the way, Nexo is back in the US with new US clients getting 30 days of Wealth Club premier access. That means elevated interest rates, lower borrowing costs, and crypto cash back on trades. Benefits usually reserved for loyalty program members. Get started at milkroad.com/nexo. So you described a couple of companies here that are let's say cryptonative, digital asset native but that are moving in the direction of some sort of AI oriented business. Um you know Galaxy with their data centers and and Coinbase with their their agentic focus. Do you

see anything coming in the other direction? In other words, like AI native or AI focused businesses that are starting to leverage digital assets or come in the direction of crypto or just in general, what do you see happening at that intersection between these two industries that you think is is got your attention right now or might be exciting in the future here? >> I I think the one thing that I've said a lot of which is like the reason that we've built DeFi is we've basically built a better financial system, right? And so we need to go use that better financial system for the things that need financing in the world, right? And right now the biggest financial uh the biggest financing thing we've ever seen in history is compute and AI. And so anyone connecting the dots to say, "Hey,

we've got this great financial system. Let's figure out how to use it for the biggest financing buildout we've ever had in history." Makes a lot of sense to me. One of those is USDA, right? I've talked about them uh quite a bit. So has Martin. He's written some stuff on them. Um they are literally combining stable coins to help finance compute, right? Which is perfect. It's like you've got the most in demand asset in the world, which is compute, and then using stable coins to create better financing terms, right? And and a better way to get liquidity um and a better way to share that revenue and that upside with with holders and with those giving liquidity.

And so I think they've created something that is extremely cool and and that's what I want to see is like let's use this this like frontier financial system for frontier technologies and and frontier things that exist in the world, right? Uh and so I think that is one of the things that I think are really cool. It's kind of what Galaxy has done a little bit, right? They they they've moved into this data center world and they've used their crypto assets to like allow them to get the funding for that. And so a little bit different but but similar. And so I think um I think there's some exciting things there. The only other thing that might become exciting is with what happened with Fable, you know, the the the Mythos launch for um for Claude kind of shows that there's a need for some sort of

decentralized AI. Um now I don't think crypto has solved anything for this. So everything in the decentralized AI space right now is is still mainly garbage to be completely honest. Um but obviously there is a solution and a need for it in some way and so someone needs to build something. Um whether we have it with the Venice or the bit tensors or the you know renders or whatever, I don't know. Uh I don't think so yet, but um we're at least experimenting. So we're ahead of anyone else that's trying to do this. And so I think there is a solution there somewhere. I just don't know exactly what it is.

>> Mainly garbage is a great description. I I like that. I'm going to add that to my LinkedIn. Uh Martin, I I would like to get your thoughts on this. So Kyle just talked a lot about this this need for decentralized finance and the demand for it. Standard Charter Ca Standard Chartered Bank uh came out with a prediction for a price to be $3,500 by 2030. And a lot of it is due to what Kyle's talking about, this agentic adoption of of decentralized finance and the huge demand for that. Um what do you think of that? Alve is trading around $80 last time I looked right now. Uh what do you think of this price prediction? What do you what are your your outlook for DeFi as we see the rise of Agentic Finance?

>> So I remain bullish DeFi tokens. Um, but we just saw a huge drama around A and so we can see how governance around these crypto projects is still messy. I'm still not sure that we are completely confident about tokens and value acral versus equity and what are our you know token holders rights and if there is a bankruptcy or something and so there are still a lot of questions I mean right now it seems like an obvious because you know DeFi tokens are down pretty badly so now like um it's Yeah, now you can say that but I think at some point there

might be you know a new interest in defy tokens again because I think what a or sky what they are building makes sense and like again I'm bullish on these products I just think that um we need to hit that massive scale and massive adoption that is still not happening and I'm not even sure that these protocols are able to bring that growth because there are still cryptonative but right now when I'm doing some transactions using you know meta mask and then ledger the user experience is still so boring so I think a sky they all need to reach out to the consumer

apps and just became sort of a infrastructure provider for and like big back end stories because I I agree that if you are uh front-facing application, you might get higher valuations and that's fine. But I'm not sure that Sky is able to compete with, you know, Robin Hood, Coinbase and and these fintexs that has huge user bases. So instead, if they would integrate their products and they would all of a sudden have access to millions of users, I think that might be a a a better play for a place like that. I think a is trying to do that. They're trying to

become a fintech as well so people can you know um have savings account and uh credit cards and they can borrow money and stuff like that. But I I think it's very hard to to get a decent traction and get some you know a decent penetration because this is very crowded market and so yeah bullish DeFi products not necessarily DeFi tokens. Kyle, what about you? Do you agree with that framing? Do you think that these DeFi tokens are going to see a rise in demand and valuations as we get Agentic Finance start to take off or or what's your look outlook on that?

>> The problem with DeFi is because there is no rights to these tokens, the only way people want to hold them is if they have buybacks, right? Um or some sort of staking rewards. And the problem with that is all these DeFi protocols are startups. And so we are forcing a bunch of startups to instead of retain capital or invest that capital in growing their company, we're saying the only way I'm going to hold your token is if you give me uh if you buy back your token or you give me some sort of yield, which makes no sense in a in an early stage company. But it's they have to do it because we don't have any legal rights to these tokens. And so, you know, if they continue to build their their own capital base, um, we

technically have no claims on that. And so, it's kind of this like we're stuck in a between a rock and a hard place, right? Because it's like, hey, I I would love for a company to keep building up their capital reserves except for if I'm going to hold that company, I would like claims on that and I don't. So, instead of building up that capital reserve, I want you to give it to me. Which just it it so it just doesn't make a lot of sense. So, we've we've kind of pushed these DeFi protocols into a bad place. Um, and I don't know when that like hopefully Clarity Act can fix that, but I don't know if it will. I don't think it will because the whole idea of DeFi is to not be regulated by any jurisdiction because that's just a risk factor that would make it not

decentralized. So, um I don't know the solution to that. Um, but I think ultimately the solution is these things need to have hyperrowth, right? they need to have just mass amounts of capital where you're like, you know what, I'll take the risk because these things are growing so fast. The thing is, we're just nowhere near that today. We will get there, I think, because I do think the Aentic economy will want to use DeFi. It makes complete sense. But the problem is is that we're so far from the agentic economy really using a lot of capital for the the global financial world that like I just think we're still probably years and years out from this from DeFi really going to some sort of hyperrowth stage unless we can really

nail agentic um capital allocation in the next little while here which I'm just I'm not convinced. Maybe it's a next year thing. Um, but probably it's it's even longer. And so as a result, I just don't see a world where DeFi tokens, unfortunately, because I used to be very bullish on them, where they can they can grow um at accelerated rates, uh, because we just they're stuck between a rock and hard place. >> Yeah. And I think that hopefully Clarity Act will help with a lot of problems in this industry that are a lot like what you just described there, right? like people are living in this sort of like hybridized world and like there are certain things that tokens would like to be able to do but they can't because of certain things and so yeah I think a lot

of people are hoping for some clarity on that. Uh one thing I wanted to share about uh is a new essay that I wrote uh called wartime Ethereum situational awareness and in that essay I kind of outline a lot of things that are going on right now in the markets and in the regulatory landscape that I think people have overlooked or or maybe just aren't making it into the headlines. Um but I think that are really important um to just you know have the situational awareness of what's going on. So I want to talk about a little bit of that. Um the Mika legislation that went through uh provides a legislative framework for conducting business and digital assets in the European Union. Um that had a a a grace period for businesses operating in the European Union to come into compliance which uh expires on July 1st.

And my understanding of the reporting that I've seen is that something like 85% of the businesses doing business in Europe have not been able to get that licensing. Um, and they're not going to extend that. So, it seems like a large number if like about 80 85% of businesses in in the EU are going to have to either wind down or migrate out of um the European Union jurisdiction. JD Pritsker signed a bill in Illinois that um puts a transaction tax on crypto and digital assets. um they call it a privilege tax, but basically it's confiscation of property um for for using these decentralized assets. Um so there's still a large and growing like opposition to the digital asset industry. Um another thing I wrote about

was how the king of England said that the he wants his his ministers to roll out the introduction of digital ID to modernize how citizens interact with services. Um but this is really just a continued imposition of KYC and centralized control. Same thing you saw with the United States and the export ban on um on Fable 5. That's going to end up requiring KYC and more centralized government control. So, there's all these things that are happening all at the same time and all in a matter of a couple of weeks. The European Union also voted to move forward with piloting their central bank digital currency and they're going to start rolling that out and accelerating those timelines because the the government the US dollar stable coins are presenting such a capital flight risk that the European Central Bank thinks that they have to respond. All of

this um for me comes together with a couple of comments that Avish Gar and Eric Vorhees said which Avishall said that Ethereum has this credible neutral sort of like digital state that people can go to with their capital with their identity um and that it's it's winning in that category and Eric Vorhees who who built this decentralized AI solution in Venice said that Ethereum was the obvious choice um and so I think that there is um sort of this intangible but growing um situation where these centralized players are using their authority and clamping down kind of like how the US kicked Russia off the Swiss system. And once people start do that, I think capital and people start to see the value and need for these decentralized solutions. Um, and I think that that is

something that is something people aren't aren't really aware of at the moment, but is growing and should be paid attention to. And it's one of the reasons why I'm so bullish on this new organization from Ethereum is that they want to go out and tell the story and evangelize for for people to to leverage this technology and show how it can help protect and preserve their rights, their freedom, their capital, and so forth. So, I I agree that um it still has to prove itself in terms of whether or not it'll be effective or add value. But I'm excited to see that movement because I think there's going to be a growing awareness of a need for some alternatives to these things, not just in AI and in crypto, but in a lot of areas of life. So, uh, yeah, I just I I wanted to write an essay kind of

exploring some of these things because I feel like there's a lot that's happening in the news right now. And it kind of gets lost in the the the price action. Um, but there there's there's more to this industry than uh than just, you know, the momentary sentiment from from day to day. And so I wrote about that this week. Um, I don't know if either of you have read it, but I I recommend you check it out. >> We love your wartime Ethereum articles, John. Please keep keep the uh the hope of them alive. >> Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, somebody's got to um Okay, I think we are getting close to time here. We have payday coming up for our Milk Road Pro analysts. If you are not in Milkroad Pro, you can join for just a dollar and see what everybody on our pro analyst

team is doing in their portfolios. Have you guys started thinking about this yet? Any alpha you want to leak here? Um or or what are you thinking about doing with your $500 this month? Kyle, you want to go first? Ooh. Um, I made some allocations earlier this week actually, not not in crypto, but in um in a different sector, actually in biotech and healthcare. Um, if you check out the Milk Road AI podcast, uh, I think on Tuesday, I went on and and explained a bit of my thesis on that. And, uh, I may be looking to extend my position in that side of things. Otherwise, I'm not a 100% sure just yet. I might honestly keep a bit of cash as well.

>> Gotcha. Okay, Martin, what about you? What are you looking to do? I think I'm going to add more Galaxy. Uh >> yeah, because there are three catalysts that are still not priced in and like um they're going to announce next tenant by the end of summer. So imagine that they will have contracted lease of 1 billion plus per year with another tenant. Then there is going to be another meeting of Texas electricity council called air and they might get additional approval of next 800 megawatt and then uh there is a new land that they just bought and they they are also being added into a Russell

2000 index. there are going to be a passive inflows into that and I think it all fits like in the next two to three months and then I guess in in Q3 we are going to finally see the materialized revenues coming from Helios on on their earnings. show it like the next 6 months for Galaxy are super bullish and the the stock is getting punished because of the crypto sort of label that it still has but it needs to be repriced higher. So, I'll probably add more Galaxy and yeah, uh if if it's falling, I'll be just

adding more and more. >> If crypto has bottomed or bottoms within the next, let's say, 3 months >> and it starts to catch a bid, Martin, then there's another catalyst to add to that uh to that stock. Um >> but this one speculative, who knows when >> versus everything else. It's not speculative. It's >> agreed. >> Yeah. And I think I am going to pro well I haven't decided for sure, but I think I'm leaning right now towards just stacking the dry powder because I do want to try to have as much ammo in the in the tank as I can to capitalize on this this bottoming process we're seeing in digital assets. Um, if we get if we get, you know, a four handle on a Bitcoin price, I'm going to absolutely

lose it. But um, okay, I think that's where we will wrap it up for today. Thank you, Kyle Martin, so much for sharing your thoughts with I know our community always appreciates it and I definitely do as well. Thank you all for joining us. We hope you all learned something today. So until next time, stay safe, stay educated, stay bullish, and we will see you all on the next episode of the Milkro Show. Thanks for being here everyone. Bye. Want insights on what's moving crypto markets and how we're trading each event. Subscribe to our channel and join the Milkro Daily and Pro Newsletters and start investing like the top 1%. This show is for educational purposes only. Nothing we say is financial advice. Investing is risky. Never invest more than you can afford to lose.