Making Web3 Real with Brave

Transcript

you can start in one minute okay look all right so let's get started please settle down welcome it's great to be here I think the conference is getting a little bit quieter certainly upstairs it was slightly quieter than it was yesterday but I guess it's not quite the right time to like dismantle this sign here for souvenirs so anyhow it's it's wonderful to be here this is I

think the second year in a row that I'm doing this presentation so in many ways this is a bit of a status update I've been looking forward to doing this for a couple of weeks now so yeah we have about thirty minutes we have this wonderful theater so let's let's make this entertaining as well so I'll leave some time for questions at the end I'm sure you have some burning questions about the brave project so save those last and we'll have we'll have a conversation as well so I'm been lifshitz I'm the chief scientist for brave I around the research team there and I'm mostly here to talk about some

updates the project itself although I'll mention a few kind of research topics from time to time that's not necessarily the focus of today if you're interested in that please go to brave comm slash research and you'll see all sorts of exciting novel things that we've been working on as well all right this is working so I wanted to start with some numbers so these are the key numbers I want to start with so we have at this point close to 12 million monthly active users we have some millions of daily active users as well and these users are split somewhat evenly not exactly 50/50 but reasonably evenly across mobile and

desktop platforms that is to say four different platforms that the browser ships on Windows Mac OS Android and iOS these numbers are a tiny bit out of date this is from the end of 2019 so there's been a little bit of girls since then as well and this is in many ways the money shot yeah this is what I wanted to open up with and I wanted to mention a few things about this as well so first of all brief is probably almost certainly actually the biggest crypto related project that is out there certainly some exchanges have a significant number of wallets and a less significant number of

users out of whom still fewer active but I think this number is really not there for the majority of crypto projects that we generally see as of today which is mostly good thing I would argue but here's something else that I wanted to point out which is once you're the number of users you have reaches a certain point there is a certain transition that your project takes which is to say you're no longer talking to crypto users right so there will be a fraction of brave users go into certain crypto and I'm sure many of you in this room let's actually do show fans I always do this kind of thing but how

many of you here use brave yeah you're right so great so this is a highly non the percentage of audience here in this room so you're all welcome to be here and again as I said very much looking forward to this conversation but the problem is that of course you know how many users out there really deeply care about crypto like on the planet I mean I would estimate something like less than a million personally that would be my personal estimate just based on the gut feeling so clearly the majority of people in that 11 million set are way outside of Krypton which means a few things but one of the things that means is that we need to provide interesting scenarios and dare I say incentives for

them to use the browser with or without Krypton we are not necessarily there to quote-unquote convert them and to crypt aficionados some of them will convert nacho that's fine that's a great outcome I think but that's not necessarily the goal and I think that would be really quite difficult to do and so the way we position the project is that really the browser itself should appeal to people based on the first principles whether or not they choose to engage should crypto and let me just kind of remind you what some of those principles are and if you've listened to one of these brave presentations you might have seen this slide but basically it highlights the fact that the web web 2.0 not what pre-party now just yet web

2.0 is quite a bit out of whack it's quite inefficient it's really shifted away from some of the first principles some of the initial design principles to a point where on average user due to attack advertising the web is not really nearly as great anymore so it's a lot slower than it used to be it's a lot more invasive there are sites like TMZ for example is a favorite poster poster boy for some of this has tons and tons of trackers in some cases hundreds of trackers because of that people pay for their data plan plans excessively and of course there are security vectors that

are enabled because of attack as well and this is the most basic of problems that the browser aims to address that brave solves right so blocking ads out of the box and as a result of that you can see that this is some somebody's evaluation there's a company I think in Paris called green specter published this support a few months ago but this is a comparison of battery consumption on mobile devices across the popular browsers and so brave brave comes out on top so in this case bigger is better means that the battery lasts longer yes and so that's kind of what you have and why do you have this because of ad

blocking that's a very simple observation but it actually works and that's why you know millions of customers like it it's not necessarily because of the crypto connection we'll come to that later it's because the basic product is in some fundamental ways quite a bit better than some of the alternatives ah how about some animation there maybe maybe not okay yeah so these are some of the some of the things that have to do with the value proposition right so let's just go through this step by step if you will so there's a focus on speed privacy security as well as concerns such as

battery life how does that get how does this get accomplished it's because of blocking data grabbing ads as well as trackers third-party trackers now here's so far we haven't even talked about krypter have we now here is a gift a bid that I wanted to mention this is the first time that I get starting to talk about this and then as we proceed there'll be more and more as of today on all the platforms that brave is shipping on and this is quite near this is as of the last several months and we roll this out gradually as well first and desktop and then gradually of on on mobile platforms as well we have support for opt-in privacy respecting ads that

reward users with redeemable tokens and this is the connection to crypto this is where dat basic attention talk in a bath comes into the picture and let me actually I made the last bit I'll come back to that later ok so we start with something that doesn't actually have kept at all and then gradually add crypto to the equation and again back to sort of the fundamental problem that we are trying to solve here so web 2.0 the way it exists currently or the way it's existed for the past I'd say five years or so has been a combination of these factors that are shown on this slide

over here things like third-party trackers as well as malicious ads and malware and things of that sort as well as a shift of power a shift of power from the open web to a combination of what's called walled gardens right the likes of Facebook and Twitter and Instagram and if you are the platforms like that being places where users spend often the majority of that time right it's very simple I'd go approach any teenage in the street they'll probably be looking at Instagram they'll probably not be using a web browser most of the time so the browser the brief is an attempt to basically

reimagine the equation and to do so we basically need to start focusing on what's shown at the top of the slide I call this the Bermuda Triangle of advertising so we have three players here three participants or three types of participants we have users we have creators content creators we often call them publishers as well although these could be bloggers these could be even people who publish things on Twitter for example as well as advertisers and this is the flow as of today so and this is a flow that's enabled by what's called

brave rewards which is this privacy preserving or privacy respecting mechanism of delivering ads within the browser itself now let me kind of separate you know page embedded ads that have been there for decades at this point yes that exists that I built using HTML and JavaScript and images and so on so forth and let me separate that from these ads that I'll show to you in just a few minutes that are embedded in the browser and because of embedding these techniques in the browser technologies in the browser we basically have a chance to reimagine the way this is constructed from the from the very

foundation from the very from the get-go and do so in a way that's as I said more secure as well as more privacy preserving as well as often times more efficient and not only that and I'll talk about that a little bit later because of the way we do use the modeling on the device itself but without the data leaving the device it's not only privacy preserving it's often more accurate in terms of our village it to model the end-user but back to the flow so advertisers buy ads over here and then users are rewarded with tokens and then okay let me just kind of take this one step at a time I

think this is a little bit too fast so advertisers can decide to come into the system they can purchase that which is the medium of exchange here they can take Fiat and purchase some bad and they can use this bad to you run some advertising campaigns as these advertising campaigns are run users get prompts within the browsing experience every once in a while and now focuses on making sure that these prompts are not too frequent and not far and not something that the and the average user let's say finds particularly annoying because if they do so then they'll just turn them off and that's the end of the story that's not the outcome that it would like to have if users choose to

click on these ads they'll be rewarded with b8c with that for the act of giving these ads because we believe that attention of the end-user should be valued and rewarded in a way that's very very direct in the form of cryptocurrency and once users accumulate more and more bt in their in browser wallet they can decide what to do with this with this with this amount right with the script oh and they can there's a range of choices and we are adding more choices as time goes by but currently they can either contribute this these funds back into the system and we have a system where they can

basically as they browse they can contribute the funds they have in their wallet over let's say months to the publishers that are that they spend the majority of their time on yes if I go to TechCrunch for example at the end of the monistic Roger will essentially receive a check from brave in the form of beats either they'll decide to settle because of the sheer number of users from from brave that go to that site furthermore as time is going is as time goes by we are looking to add more and more services along the same lines and I think I'll give you some examples of

tipping on different services and I'll give you other examples of things like paywalls that we want to support as well as other services we can deliver through the browser but the goal here is to make it so it's possible to earn DET as well as to spend bt within the context of a single browser right so there is this end-to-end experience with the end user so they don't necessarily have to purchase bt from fear they don't have to come in from fiat they don't have to it's essentially it's an enclosed ecosystem that's what we are trying to accomplish here now advertisers if they want to come in typically they would come in with some amount of Fiat and they would purchase

bt and that will be that similarly publishers though typically what they'll want to do once you know while they will receive bt at the end of the month they might choose to convert that into fiat if that's what they want so this is a system that we've been running for some months now we have some statistics and I'll show you a little bit of that as well and that's essentially been the focus of the last I don't know and months of our work at the company oops this is an animation that's gone a little bit crazy sorry about that but if you've opted into brave rewards which is this advertising system that I explained

in the last slide if you go to this URL brave slash reward brave colon slash slash Awards in your browser you'll be able to see all these gory details of your interaction with the brave ad ecosystem so specifically you'll see some details over here at the top about your earnings and this is just an example screen this is not real numbers but just to give you an idea what this is about right so basically current earnings for the months are shown over there and then you know over there total tells you about you know contributions that you can sign up for over there which is to say you you are allowing brave to essentially

spend ten of your bt across the publishers that you visit the most right and then if I scroll down a little bit more hopefully I'll be able to see some other details here so for example here I see that my tips and monthly contribution contributions rather go to some of these players listed at the bottom here so there's a monthly contribution to somebody whose name is Bart Baker on YouTube in the amount of five be eighty and then there is a one-time contribution to the Guardian of twelve bt and then also Brendan Eich on Twitter of 7pt okay sounds good and then on the right you also see some number of offers and things like that these are not necessarily the experiences we have

enabled now but this is just to give you a glimpse of some of the coming attractions there are a few other things that depending on the built of the browser you might be might or might not be able to see on a screen like this as well as the new tab page of the browser as well which we are using to pilot some of these experiences as well but hopefully you get the basic idea right so you see both the earning part when it comes to bt as well as the spending part whatever when it comes to bt although some of these details will keep changing as we update the product according to some of the feedback we're getting cos in the marketplace as well as from end users I think some of the principles

will stay more as the same okay so all right so what's going on here right so this shows at the center of the picture it shows your wallet in this case in the mobile version of brave over here which has a tally basically like you know you can go and click on the view now monthly statement and so on and so forth but the point is that there are different ways to get money into your wallet so you can get bt from viewing ads as I as I said before there are kind of other models such as what called brave offers although the names

will keep changing in principle you can also fund your wallet through the use of an exchange like for example coinbase or some some other one or you know in the future I think you might support funds Inc of these wallets or with the help of like a normal bank account as well as you might imagine when it comes to this there are concerns that have to do with KY seeing users and things of that sort and I'm happy to talk about that if there are questions about this aspect of things as well how do we get the money out or in what ways does the user get the money out well so I already mentioned most of these things

right so basically it's publisher subscriptions so you can basically set it up so there's like there's a monthly subscription content purchases we don't quite have that yet right so I think fairly soon we'll start enabling some of these scenarios as well so this the scenario that I've talked about for quite a while is that of going to like a premium video site let's say and then being able to pay for a movie which would normally cost let's say two years or three years in the form of that from your wallet and making that purchase process as seamless as possible right so basically a purchase can be made in crypto the user will start viewing this

the experience of viewing it would be really smooth you know this would be part of their statement within their that wallet blah blah blah you know that's the kind of thing that would like to enable here as well what I'll showcase a little bit later maybe a couple slides down there is this created tips and contributions thing right so in this especially works especially well for YouTube channels right so I'll give you an example of that and hopefully that will be a little bit more clear then the next of us item here is actually ecommerce right I mean although it's actually a lot more complicated than it sounds but in principle right in

principle it's not so difficult to imagine that you know if you have the moral equivalent of like to say and now 15 20 euros and your wallet you should be able to make purchases in Amazon as well right we don't have that working yet this is not something that we currently support but I think in principle this is a direction that we'd like to pursue as well and last but not least of course I wanted to mention in highlight that purchases right and so basically interactions with depth right so if you have that in your wallet and then your adapt once aetherium there is no reason not to basically make the conversion almost instantaneously and make it possible for users who care about these scenarios to support exactly that but

again I mean let me kind of without offending anybody in the audience let me highlight the fact that it's sort of these things at the top of the list of your will that will appeal to why the masses so while we don't really want to you know de-emphasize the experience of tap usage and that whole flow we certainly would very much want to make that as seamless as possible certainly if you want to appeal to a broad category of users we would like to go sort of to the beginning of that funnel as much as we can all right so this is a little bit about the ico so I don't want

to talk about this almost at all this is the same term you the triangle of advertising look this was some years ago by now I think there is not very much conversation about this at the company so I mean let me just kind of continue and talk about something else this is actually something that's quite recent I just called the brave transparency report we go to braid that comm slash transparency this is more or less what you'll see so this gives you the ability to keep tabs on our progress in a very very kind of direct manner so on the left-hand side of the slide you'll see and it's unfortunately the funds are too small to see but if you go to the

website you'll just see this for yourselves number one so I'll give you the sense if you go and visit the site but secondly I'll just explain what these different parts mean so left hand side talks about publishers and again we use this term publishers the creators very very broadly because if you look at the categories of publishers and creators you'll see that currently brave has some 262,000 YouTube channels that have gone through the brave verification process they've gone to what is it creators that brave calm and they've done the KYC and so on and so forth and now they're part of the ecosystem there are some 44,000 websites

right so like wikipedia is one of them for example and many many others as well and many many blog sites and you know also some others other things as well some 50,000 Twitter accounts have gone through this process as well some 26,000 reddit accounts about 10,000 github accounts and so on and so forth and so these numbers are growing quite steadily so I think in total we have close to half a million I'd say publishers that have gone through Braves verification process as part of the ecosystem so as a result of

that they're able to receive contributions from browser users so this is on the left on the right we have advertising purchasing bat to run campaigns to run their campaigns and you see some of these transactions and you can go and verify some of these conversions for yourself if you follow those links and that's an important part of how money enters the system so to speak remember that three-part slide that I showed to you just a couple of minutes ago so that's kind of what it's about right but you know the first the origin of funds is that of advertising entering the system and this is what this is highlighting at the top of the

slide on the right and last but not least at the bottom we have ongoing advertising campaigns so this is I think about the months old this specific screenshot I would argue yeah roughly about the months old I think but so as of that time we had about 70 something campaigns in the US we had 37 in the UK we had 22 in France we had at an l5 in Argentina and so on and so forth but this gives you a glimpse of the Geo distribution when it comes to campaigns that are run through this mechanism and of course there are many many technical details here I'm omitting four so for example to do use a

model link on the client it really helps to understand their language our ability to model english-speaking users is a lot better than it is for other languages although that's also improving in so on and so forth but this gives you a rough sense of what we've been doing in the space of privacy preserving and advertising within the browser so this is what I mentioned to you before this is you know how publishers get on board they go to creators that brave calm they go click on the sign up think and effectively they go through the KYC and i mentioned before we support YouTube channels Twitter twitch reddit github as well as others so you can go instead of you know starting somebody on github

which is wonderful somebody's projects on github you can effectively now start tipping them for their efforts as well which is you know pretty a wonderful way to support open source efforts isn't it ok so in the context of this brief transparency report I wanted to point out something else so for a while I think for about almost 2 years now there's been this website called bad growth comm and we actually have known about it for I mean almost the entire time they've been around and basically what these guys have been doing is independently keeping track of Braves progress and well you know in many ways keeping us honest right and so you can

go to this website today and you'll see numbers that are comparable to what I showed to you before so a number of publishers it's a little bit less than half a million and sort of this kind of breakdown that I mentioned to you as well and you can go and drill drill a little bit right by clicking on different links and this bad girls calm website and you'll see that you know some of the top publishers and these are websites you'll see things like Wikipedia for example here you'll see the Washington Post you'll see archive.org Doug oh by the way dr. Go is one of the supported privacy friendly search engines that is supported and by

brave and is a partner of Braves as well you'll see things like I don't know sourceforge.net I don't know Vimeo is another one and so on and so forth right so together with the Alexa ranking and on the right we have github because it's an example that's kind of near and dear to my heart personally so we have you know some users who are who've gone through the brave verification process and you can see on the right the number of followers they have and you can sort of go and click on these things as well so this is actually probably good time to pause and kind of restate something

that I posed in the beginning as one of the goals which is to say you know our goal is to change the web as it arises systems right and one of the ways to do so is by changing the way things are funded so for easily 15 maybe even 20 years we've had a web that is largely funded by advertising and while this is sometimes desirable and sometimes is I don't know maybe necessary evil depending on your viewpoint this gives you I mean what I'm showing here gives you an alternative mechanism to funding creators online whose content you enjoy right and I think this is really quite a

powerful reflection of some of these concepts the fact that we have close to half a million for organizations that have chosen to become part of the brave ecosystem and also the shirt time period I think is really quite one what incentives do they have well one of the incentives they have is that as the advertising system within the browser is becoming more and more popular there are more and more people more and more end-users who are willing to contribute to these sites as they browse naturally and at the end of the day some of these sites might step away from the currently broken model of online advertising and shift away to a model that's a lot more clean and potential a lot more lucrative

for them as well because by and large most of these publishers are not really getting very much from the current EDD model compared to where it was let's say 10 or 15 years ago the payout are not nearly as significant as they used to be so to me this is actually very kind of powerful reminder of the fact that we are doing reasonably well actually with respect to our stated goals of changing the way things are done online I wanted to mention a couple of things about advertisers so we're not disclosing who they are we're kind of a little bit sheepish about some of that but let me just mention one number so we currently have a waiting list of over

10,000 advertisers who want to pay us money to advertise through the privacy preserving privacy friendly platform that we'll build at Bray so that's a good position to be in I would argue so I have a series of slides and privacy I might just skim through this because I think we don't have as much time but let me just kind of you know highlight a couple of these points so at the same points about surveillance economy that I mentioned before so that's one thing the other thing is that you know we're building essentially system of privacy preserving ads and so this is a number from October 2019 which was kind of early days by now the numbers have

shifted down a little bit but essentially at that time when we first released our system of advertising through browser itself we got a click-through rate of 14% which is insanely high I mean I'll be the first one to admit that you know they've gone down a little bit since then but certainly for an industry average being way below 1% in number like 14 percent click to rate is insanely high but it kind of shows you that you can design systems that combine the ideas and goals of privacy with the goal of performance in this case measured by the click-through rate okay so this is just the kind of you know highlight some of the things that my

team works on which is mix of I mean some of this wonderful cryptography including campy scenes your knowledge proof and progressive decentralization goals and things like that as well and we'll actually be releasing more and more of the things that we work on and again let me highlight this URL brave comm slash research if you want to learn more about some of the new things that are coming down the pipe go and take a take a look and you'll see a little bit more there than I have the time to cover today see right there is a video here that is kind of fun with this guy over here whose name is Bart Baker I think know what's his name is that his name I

think oh no this is somebody else this is Phil DeFranco so this is not a dude on YouTube who is well it's very excited that's all I can tell you I don't remember too much about him but that's not the point the point is that the point is that you know basically as you browse this and brave there's this thing that you can click on yeah on the writer and then if you click on that there'll be this reward screen and then there is a button that says send the tip and if you really like if you're equally excited right he's very excited if you're also very excited in response to whatever he is saying I think he's talking about sports that's wonderful okay great so then you click on that and then there's a way for you to contribute some bad and so you have a menu that

drops down over here and you decide to spend let's say five bad and just send the tip and there you go and this is a little bit more about advertising as well so you're browsing a web page like this and if you do so there might be an ad that comes out in the corner of the screen and this is delivered not within the page this is outside the page and if you this - click on the view over here in this little the relatively non-obtrusive ad then it will take you to the page that's a lot more fun it will look like this it's gonna be an ad for Camry it's sort of full screen almost right it's like a video of sorts right and basically by viewing this thing you just earned five

pad yeah so I showed you an example of how you earn by clicking on the side and I showed you an example of how you spend also five that by clicking on I mean sending a tip to that guy who talks about sports and that's what I wanted to do by closing this loop and this is a little bit more about you know settings you can limit the number of ads you can do you think so that's sort you can go and play with this for yourself essentially but that's that some kind of out of time and I wanted to leave a few minutes for questions because I'm sure you have a few so we have show like six or seven minutes for questions so I'm happy to take as many as you have but before I do so let me just kind of

highlight this was from a retreat a little bit well some months ago I should say in a warm place so the brave team is about a hundred ten people at the moment so it's a pretty significant team quite a number of individuals fairly tech-heavy I'd say easily eighty plus or doing some sort of Technology related function engineers PMS researchers what-have-you and and yeah I think that's probably most of what I'd like to share as of today happy to take as many questions as you have thank you so we have some time for

questions questions okay thank you for the presentation I'm a proud brave user here and I was wondering if you're experiencing a willingness from the advertiser to pay a higher fee for the ads because of course the people are choosing to see them and not just they're not hit by them so if you can elaborate a bit on that thank you it's a good question so it's probably a little bit too early to tell in a certain sense advertisers don't necessarily have

particularly accurate a mental model when it comes to these kinds of ads because for decades quite literally they've been trained to think about online advertising in a fairly specific term and I don't know if you know about the gory details of art CB and things like that but it's a whole I mean it's it's like entire professions that are based on this or built on this right so I think this is really quite you I think they there's quite a lot of Education that we need to do about what it means to have a privacy preserving at ecosystem they don't necessarily understand that they don't often get it even after we explain it a few times so there is some flexibility I think when

it comes to pricing but I don't know that I can generalize based on any of this it's just early days as I said when I mentioned the 14 percent click-through rate which is like staggering I think we shouldn't generalize and kind of extrapolate based on too little data another question okay well actually I have two questions the first is how do you prevent people just watching and not being interested at all in the ads and finally the advertiser does not recontact his campaigns yeah so the question is about ad fraud what do we do about that well

say it's a gift that keeps on giving lights anyway so there is no kind of ultimate solution to ad fraud when it comes to coin side shenanigans right and I wish I could tell you the blockchain magically you know you sprinkle some pixie dust and it all goes away yeah it does right because we can automate this stuff you can have balls you can have army of human armies of humans you can be compensated for that as well and yeah it's mix of let's say defense strategies some of which we publicize and some of which have come out of research and others that we are not as open about let's say that we have to apply it's I mean yeah it's it's it's a mix of

strategy some of which work a well on mobile and actually even better on mobile and others work on desktop and that's that so if you are curious about some of the details I can point you to paper that talks about some of them that we are openly talking about and that's that's probably better that on a big stage perfect and the second question how illegal or how ethical is it to trigger something to the user that was not designed by the the website that that is visited I mean III me my my website you can trigger an ad for a competitor so how how how legal how

ethical how acceptable is it how brave are you to do this so the anti shot case showcased kind of a few slides ago a few minutes ago are outside of the browser chrome even right they're part of an operating system notification and that's exactly how they come up on a mobile device right and in the same way you have it education from Twitter or something the same way you'd have this right it's just the thing that your mobile application centers in a notification so it's not really associated with the webpage that's being browsed at the moment now in principle you're right and that we can you know create undesirable situations and outcomes if you're not careful and indeed limitations as to

what kind of ads are let's say even a lie outright things that have to do with advertising alcohol for example it's kind of notorious for that and so we need to be quite careful and this is actually one of the reasons we are fairly careful when it comes to selecting advertisers as well right I mean despite having a very long waiting list we are not too keen to take everybody on either because we just want to make sure we're not you know courting controversy let's say when it comes to some of these things but again it's it is something that you design solutions for for the foreseeable future there are relatively few particularly easy answers

rights you have to be really quite thoughtful about how you do use a modeling and what you allow and what you don't allow and there's some stuff that's kind of rule based and so on and so forth there is no kind of just that water type of solution that I can recommend to use many of these things have to be properly analyzed in terms of like threat analysis and so on and so forth last questions okay oh yeah well two questions actually even I was wondering if you could explain how pricing is set

for the advertisers looking like ricing for what for like if I'm an advertiser and I want to place ads on brave if I negotiate directly with content creators or if you are an intermediary and if so how do you set the price so at the moment to be an intermediary and that's I think how it will stay for the foreseeable future although one can wonder what can ask a question is - well how do you decentralize this part of it for example and I think it's how that gets actually actually really difficult to do so properly without being you know subject to support acts and things so that's all I think it's really difficult to figure out some of these pricing mechanisms although we'd like it to be not the case let's say right so so far

we're being really quite cautious and conservative when it comes to this it's a manual process and just follow how do you determine the pricing as the middleman for the advertisers oh I feel good here how do you determine the pricing for the advertisers like how is that set well it's just a subject to negotiation of adam' right so that's all it is nothing nothing different from that there's not a question in the back our in the middle maybe can we use that on Twitch and other platforms and YouTube and also can we

cancel donation of that so I still couldn't understand that so you don't have to say anything okay can we use but the donation system on Twitch yes so twitch is supported so you you have the ability to tip twitch what they call them pages channels I don't creators yeah twitch is one of the supported actually I'm surprised I didn't have a slide on Twitter because that's by far the most obvious one right so you basically on Twitter you just have what is it retweet button and then like a like button and then there's a donate button that the browser adds to the to the UI and that's that and the twitch experience is a little bit different but in principle similar to what I showed on YouTube

essentially yeah so there was actually quite a lot of demand from twitch users because apparently some of them want to make money by running these channels to each channels also can we console consider a donation of but if you what is the world can we console console a donation console console yeah good cancer what I am is that when you make a donation of that can you how can you like claw it back so to speak take it back here yeah no generally not I mean and this is one of the reasons we don't support huge amounts right so five bad at the time of writing that slide

was like 77 USD cents so that's not like the end of the world right but generally we would like to avoid some of these these kinds of things right certainly if it comes to large amounts I think we'll make it fun experience where it's more difficult to make a mistake I think there was another question over here on this side maybe yeah we don't have questions so they can talk to you I think so thank you so thanks thank you very much