BANKLESS 🤝DAILY GWEI LIVESTREAM - EIP1559 WEEK

Transcript

how you going oh you know oh i just i you know exactly how i'm doing i just ate into a crypto punk yeah yeah that's why we're a couple minutes late here you are like just one sec i gotta buy this punk you just gotta foam away so yeah i guess congrats on on the purchase uh it's always it's always cool to see another punk out person become part of the punk family yeah uh it's it's i've been trying to be patient about it but uh then all this punk activity just happened in the last like it feels like four hours excuse my dog which you can't see in the background um four hours like the the floor got swept like apes got bought gold chains everywhere it's like oh yeah uh and i like everyone likes to say like oh this

like i'll take credit for this i'll take credit for this but on bank list we just had andy 805.2 on and we talked about like the bullish case for punks and how nft bear market's not over so maybe it was that that triggered it okay man what's up mm-hmm yeah there's a lot of foam roads today for sure i mean i woke up to to it and i was like oh this is this is cool i i mean i've only got one punk that i minced it in 2017 it's just a floor punk but you know it's funny because like i never want to sell that thing like the floor is what like 70k right now or something like 29.8 i'm like marching very fast upwards uh-huh exactly so like i just don't want to sell uh my punk at all like uh it doesn't even look like me and i can't

show it off because it's on an address that i don't want made public but like it's just it you have an attachment to it right like and i'm sure you'll get attached to yours every time even though it's not you i [ __ ] hope so i'm better considering how much money you just spent you know one thing that uh that i think is is good to point out is that how much of like the punk activity is priced in in eighth right and how many people are using each to buy it and this is kind of like the this you know eighth being used as real money here like it's not just a meme it's like eighth in a big in a in a very big way like and and it feels like eighth is like i don't know if this is the right way to describe it but it's

like this premium money where you buy premium products with each like i know a lot there's a lot of other kind of like nfts being sold and bought with eth but it just feels like people uh you know there's a lot of 8th whales out there who are just like yeah i've made a lot of money on my eighth and now i want to store it in like this punk thing or like an nft or something so and i feel like if you're an 8th maxi and you made a lot of money on 8th you have to have a punk that's ethereum culture right right right right there it's it's like the number one uh that's definitely the number one reason why i'm interested in punk specifically like i'm not really an nft guy i'm not really an nft guy but like once there's enough of

like a shelling point around specifically crypto punks well all of a sudden anyone who has their brand of like of people that bought ether throughout the 2018-19 bear market bought it in size completely convicted on it did decently well based off of that conviction they all have a punk they all got a punk and so like the punk is like the eth maxi like like nft and there's also something to be said about like it also kind of feels like it has the same genesis as so many other valuable things in this base because it has a genesis event it has an immaculate conception just like bitcoin had an immaculate conception ethereum had the immaculate ico trump's had punks had this immaculate just

beginning where there was this experimental project people thought it was really cool uh years ago and then it just drifted off and then it just randomly got picked up by did you ever listen to our mimetics podcast with uh yeah it seems like everyone just kind of used the punks as like a shelling point and the the medics took over and now everyone understands punks to be like the base layer the m's the m0 of all nfts on ethereum yeah and they can only really be like uh maybe maybe not just a handful but like more like one or two of these kind of things it's it's definitely not something that you can have like a a kind of like tens of sort of things it's it's like it's

funny because like uh when crypto punks started hitting up again like a few months ago people started uh replicating that and still do it to this day where they're creating like 10 000 you know characters and they're getting money for it and then everyone's changing their profile picture but they're all just copies it's like forking bitcoin right they're all just forks of bitcoin like none of them overtook bitcoins value and bitcoin actually ended up getting more value because those forks brought more attention to to bitcoin so it's like same with crypto punks where the original um being punks is not going to lose its value just because there's like essentially what are forks out there of of punks uh so and i think that's probably what a lot of people miss is that they still like i don't know i think you said you're not an nft guy i

just don't think you have to be an nft or an art person or whatever to appreciate like digital collectibles i mean the funny thing about digital collectibles is that it's it's it's it's not just art or whatever it's not just the art it's kind of like the the culture the history the kind of story behind it you know think about something like physical pokemon cards like the charizard card there's a reason why that card is the most valuable in the entire set right there's a story behind it there's nostalgia attached to it from when you were a kid playing these cards and then you remember it and you know there's there's certain rarity attributes kind of assigned to it just like with punks but without the history without the story without the culture you know you're not going to have something very valuable i think no yeah

that's that's exactly right like all r is is like symbolism right and i we all like to define and well you you said that yeah you said that there's like all these forks off of it and there's so many of different of these like generative art like avatars and the when i've been talking to like the nft people the way they try and evaluate these things is like all right well how many of these things are there and if there's 10 000 of them like how many people want those those avatars right like are there 50 000 people who want these 10 000 avatars because then there'll be a little bit of a game and so like crypto punks are like way too expensive for that to be turned into like a fun thing to do for like new entrants like only only the deepest

believers are going to be ready to put up that much money to like hold on to a crypto punk and to play the crypto punk game but it's going to turn into like a generational cycle thing where there's going to be new like up croppings of generative r avatars and they're going to be cheap and then people are going to use those as their avatars and then some of those will stick right and then some of them will like slowly rise to the top based off of lindy over time like we saw board apes do this i think we're seeing cool cats do this there's a couple other projects and then and then as it goes and you know goes deeper deeper down like what we would previously call like the [ __ ] coin like waterfall or the euthanasia roller coaster of like you know projects

forking out into projects like it gets more and more speculative but that's where like the upside is right yeah and and there's definitely something to be said about the fact that you know a lot of people most people are priced out of punks right and they want to be part of a community and they want to be part of something where they can actually afford it and that's why i think you're seeing these forks happen and uh you know i think maybe there's a little bit of uh truth to that in the in the big like something like the bitcoin forks as well where people were like well you know i can't ever buy a whole bitcoin because it's so expensive or something let's let's fork it and do something else but i think with with um with nfts it plays an even bigger role so yeah and i'm not

saying like the other nft projects that are similar to punk's garbage a lot of them are but like some of them have gone on to form their own communities like bourdain yacht club uh there's a couple others like you mentioned cool cats and stuff like that but really for them to have longevity you need a community um that that actually cares about and actually wants to you know keep the story alive and keep and build like a culture and a history around it or else it'll just die off and i think that goes for like pretty much everything but but uh with kind of like nfts it's it's just a funny thing because gupta punk stayed quiet for so long there were like some hardcore believers um you know i know there was uh there was like a few people buying them up during kind of like the bear mark and stuff

like that they were worth basically nothing um and then you know their beliefs kind of paid off but they could have easily that could have easily gone the other way too i think it's just that the story was there the culture was there and nfts became like a big thing um so you know that could happen for other ones today but it's just like placing bets is even harder today because you have to place the bet on the right one rather than uh you know trying to because crypto punks was really the only one for for a while so um not to say it was easy but like the fact that they were the the pioneer and and the beginning there i think that's going to be the thing that whales prefer and that's why crypto punks are always going to trade very like at a huge kind of

like value um but yeah we're definitely going to see other projects spin up and gain kind of like attention and that's exactly why i think like [ __ ] crypto punks are specifically like optimized for people who aren't really nft people because like they get the shelling point of the first one and so the reason why they're so highly priced is because they are the most like scalable because everyone in ethereum is like somewhat relates to them and they feel like the water of nfts right they're the first ones uh and you have the assurances that it's going to they're they of the resale value and they kind of feel like the bitcoin of nfts i guess i guess i'm rehashing earlier points um but it's just like the most neutral nft that there is because they're pixels there's

they're just 544 pixels or however many they are um and and they do have much more of a story that that uh fits behind them much more than board aboard ape yacht club but i think that they are like the next in line although very distant um but like the the there's a lot more like meaning and symbolism behind a crypto punk than anything else and i think for other nfc projects they're going to have to kind of generate it's going to be a much harder than it was for them to generate that same sort of cultural zeitgeist than it is for crypto punks because now now it's in the same way that like uh ethereum had the first like big successful ico and it tainted the waters for all icos afterwards right because

all far following icos they realized that ethereum's ico worked and that taints it because it you only get the the some of the legitimacy of the ethereum ico came from the pac from the fact that no one had tried out the model before technically that's not true but um it was really the first one that really was successful same thing with crypto punks actually crypto punks weren't the first nft uh project either but they were the first ones that worked right and so they've kind of tainted every single one to come after it because now every single one that comes after it it's known that you can be extremely lucrative and that ruins some of the legitimacy and there's also like the fairness of distribution as well like you're never going to get like one of these um uh

these 10 000 kind of like character projects uh be a have like a fair distribution like what crypto punks did and and it's because of the fact that like pranks had like hardly any value right people got to scoop them up over time like some people just minted one or bought one and just said you know i'll just keep it um you know to myself and and it was very accessible for people to for everyone to get into um and that was the same that happened with i think like bitcoin in the early days even eighth in the early days um definitely um you know had a pretty fair distribution so i think that plays a big part into it as well because no one wants to buy into a project where like one person owns like over half the kind of supply like a lot of people just think that that is

like incredibly unfair it's not going to lead itself to a good community or lend itself to a good community because there's just not going to be enough people that have access to to buy this sort of stuff and you have this like one mega whale kind of like hanging over everyone and it's kind of like you feel like you're being ruled and like you get rugged at any second uh by like this this king um so yeah from from that perspective i think yeah punks are definitely very unique but yeah i mean that's just today like there's so much that have happened has happened since we've done this this stream i mean you've been traveling a lot you went to hcc and got covered and you got covered yeah by the way if you can't tell from my background i currently have covert today's today's gonna be like the last

day that i'm like at 97 recovered like tomorrow i'm gonna be completely back to normal uh it was just really achy like coveted was really achy for me uh and like the story of covet at ecc is a really interesting one because everyone was either vaccinated or coming in with negative tests uh and then like a lot of people got it regardless like well it's in hindsight kind of to be expected like international conference in france like delta variant um but what's what's crazy is that a decent number of people got it with the vaccine while they were vaccinated a decent number of people got cold and cold symptoms that were roughly similar to what me and the other coveted positive people were experiencing and when they got a test they got negative

and they've had multiple tests and multiple tests have come back negative uh and then and it's it's like a complete crap shoot uh and so the kind of interesting little story but like a lot of people got over to easy's mm-hmm yeah yeah i i think it's funny because like i was trapped here in my like in my house and everything i was in another lockdown in melbourne but like i wouldn't have gone anyway because i haven't got the vaccine or anything like that i obviously like having the vaccines a lot better than not having it you can't go without a vaccine you like if you like i said like it was okay it was it was decently mild and yeah yeah i had the vaccine right imagine what it would be without it exactly so yeah i i think like as much as i'm having fomo over not being able

to go to these sorts of things i just have to kind of like wait it out and i think just generally like conferences like what they were like pre-covered we're not gonna have that for quite a while still like i know there are a lot of people who couldn't go to hcc like not just me there was a ton of people who couldn't go um and then just generally like we don't even have any timelines for a lot of them like devcon we have no idea like is devcon still going to happen in colombia like i don't think colombia has a very good uh vaccine rollout so are they going to are they going to even accept people from kind of like various countries am i even going to be allowed to fly to colombia from where i am you know what i mean so

i think it's sad but you know it's just the way it is right now and it's it's funny because like for those of you who haven't been to 8th conferences really you don't know what you're missing out on like they are the best things ever this is just a celebration of ethereum meet all your friends kind of experience the culture but hopefully you know i feel like we'll be like most of the world will be like you know uh uh i guess like so most countries around the world will have good vaccine rollout rates by mid next year um like you know pretty much like back to like like um you know australia will be able to travel to the us and stuff like that and like all those kind of countries i don't know about third world countries but definitely the first world you would expect them all to be

you know mostly vaccinated by then so hopefully we can get some more conferences going but yeah i think at this point in time it's just like you just got to live with it once you've been vaccinated there's not much else you can do right really like like if i i and other people were vaccinated and we got covered like like everyone welcome to the new normal like vaccinated people are getting covered and it's just being like a normal cold because because thanks for your vaccines work um but like that's it's likely the delta variant that i got and other people got as one would expect because that's what's going on around all of europe and that's what's probably most likely getting past the vaccines um and like the covalent is just going to fork again and like even if we get a booster shot like

it's going to be is going to make it better but like really though i think the only viable way to fight covid is a combination of vaccines and getting it right just like getting it you get the antibodies you get the next vaccine like you get the antibodies you get the next vaccine like we're gonna just live with coving and everyone's gonna be getting covered probably multiple times for like the next five years until it's just part of like the new normal which will will have been by then um so but yeah not to make this into a coveted show but no no no i do i do totally agree with you that like it's is we're not going to be aping into uh ethereum conferences like i just ate into this crypto punk anytime soon that's it that's it um but i guess like

more positive news well it's one five five nine week uh you know it's uh what is this 31st of july it's the 30th of july for you but 31st of july for me um it's going to go live in a few days like oh i think august 5th like even in the u.s it's going to be august 5th i know for me it's it actually could be august 6. like at right now it's saying 11 50 p.m on august 5th my time it could even be august 6th for me but um it's finally here like oh my god more than two years we are on the cusp of one five five nine like so close and you know what man i think it's the perfect timing for it market's heating up again yeah right like yes uh that means that gas fees are going to go up

too but we have layer twos this time yeah we have layer twos rolling out like pretty much every week something major happens in the layer two ecosystem so we're gonna have like uh i guess you know high phase on layer one still but like a lot of new users that we're gonna have coming in are gonna be able to experience layer two we're gonna be burning each i mean man i just i mean i'm always bullish but like i'm really bullish past like a couple of weeks that's for sure no it's it really does feel like like a goldilocks area where like right now gas fees are 30 and they've been kind of like 20 30 40ish for the last few days like like you said starting to heat up again and we don't and we kind of just need it i guess pre-proof of steak is

really kind of underwhelming and because like the deflationary level of ether is like 100 plus but still having having like a decently off-the-floor level of basal demand for ethereum block space which attracts new new use coming uh new incomers and then we start to actually burn meaningfully a meaningful amounts of eth markets heat up the narrative gets going having that all of that happen in combination with also having the escape valve for new users to go play on l2 it's like the maximum like spider web that ethereum can capture it's like hey we have high fees and we're really bullish for all the ether investing in like institutions of the world institutions down to the individual level and then like hey that made you interested about ethereum come use it

it's really really cheap like we get both and that's always been what ethereum has always been about is optimizations for as wide as a reach as possible and like once things are actually in shape we get to see like how wide of a net ethereum as a entity actually gets to cast itself and you know speaking of layer 2 as well i mean since our last live stream uni swap went live on optimism and you know they haven't really done any kind of like big marketing push with it there's only six assets that you can trade and there's no centralized exchange bridges into optimism just yet but they're getting some really great uh traction already like i think the tbr was up to something like seven million uh daily trading volumes are like averaging 1.52 million sort of thing optimism is doing

more fees like the optimism network itself is doing more fee revenue than most of the ethereum killers are out there and and synthetics just went live with their exchange on there with um with cuenta uh yesterday so i mean man like layer two summer really is gonna is a thing like maybe it's like a late summer or like maybe i know it's like one month left of summer for for you guys but like maybe it's it just extends into like southern hemisphere summer as well so we have like six months like layer two summer but it just it just really does feel like everything's coming together and you know people often criticize me when i say that and say oh you're just like this is just recency bias like you're bullish because um you know the market's bullish it's like guys like i was bullish even

if the market was falling like don't give me that don't give me that like i'm always going to be bullish but i think yeah right now um you know even even in the face of all this regulatory stuff that's coming out right like they've all seen over the past couple days like the equipment markets want to go up like eve like they just want to go up like and i think we've discussed this before or at least i've discussed it on on my refuel episodes before when bad news doesn't make the market dump it means the market is really really bullish and honestly like while the regulatory fund is like legitimately concerning and i'm prepared to like put on my boxing gloves and like get into the slog and fight it out like doing whatever i need to do at the end of the day

it's bullish it's the attention is good it's legitimizing it's it's focusing everyone is talking about digital assets regardless of whether you're in the industry or out of it the government's talking about it like regulators are talking about it just like fintech is talking about it everyone's talking about digital assets that's why we're getting regulated and so like regulation it needs to be good it needs to be good thought for regulation bad regulation is bearish but what's going on right now is bullish it's a sign of bullish attention onto the industry i remember when ether was like in bitcoin and ether was 33 000 plus and bitcoin was like 45 thousand plus i remember people like dimitri cafes and he wasn't

the only one i think also uh the stalwart uh from bloomberg yeah yeah bloomberg joe yeah they were both saying like hey like i believe in crypto but like i don't think the markets are pricing and regulation at all right now and then we dumped and now we're getting regulated and now that we're going through the regulation trials like companies are going to be able to be feel more comfortable investing in the space like oh look they're like the crypto industry and the regulators are going doing their backs and forths i'm going to slip my bids right into the market that's that's what's going on i think in the or for the rest of the year i say yeah i mean that's the bullish case you can definitely make in that if the crypto i mean it will get regulated but like as long as the regulations aren't

like completely strangling and yeah exactly it kind of like completely legitimizes this asset class for institutions and and paves the way for things like etfs and more kind of like structured heavily regulated products uh which yeah just allow more capital into the ecosystem so you can definitely spin it as being bullish if it doesn't go through in its current form because i'm sure a lot of you have seen on twitter you know jake chavinsky did a really great thread today breaking this all down you should go check it check it out on twitter but essentially uh the current regulations in the infrastructure bill which again is just insane because like it's just politicians trying to sneak things into an infrastructure bill um but essentially they basically uh the worst regulations that could happen in crypto it makes every operator everything like

not even operate it makes like every smart contract minor everything right um if you touch it at all yeah yeah yeah right so like if you make one single transaction from your meta mask there's like three people that need to like do reporting there's there's dan finley at metamask there's whoever ran the transaction at infira there's whoever mined the block and put it into the all three of those people need to be reporting entities for your transaction that's like that's how granted it gets yes and and i don't actually think this was done on purpose i think this is just lack of education i think these things the people that wrote this have no idea how any of this stuff works and that's actually positive because it means if we can educate them and we can convince them that hey this isn't how it works we

need to change this um but like this is this is the negotiation tactic though you always go in hard right you go in like as hard as you can and then you you compromise over time and that's how people get what they what they want like through a negotiation but um yeah in its current form would be disastrous and and all the people freaking out about it are right to freak out about it and then freaking out about it is good because then they're gonna go fight for us like i know jake he's part of like a cohort of of of lawyers and everything like that that are definitely uh trying their best to kind of work this out um so i don't i don't like i know this infrastructure bill i think it's getting voted on today or something like that and it's like a

must-pass bill but typically these bills can have changes right up until like the vote right um like like seconds before the vote sort of thing which i think is insane because like you don't have enough time to review new kind of um legislation but this is just like how these things work and it's all politics so uh but yeah i i don't know i just i don't think i think the market is actually pretty smart right now and knowing that like there's pretty i think there's a little chance that these things will go through as is um and just generally regulation yeah definitely is bullish in a way um and at the same time like it was expected like come on like there's no way the governments would never come after crypto if it got big enough like we all we all knew this and

anyone who's acting surprised was being naive i think yeah no that's exactly right it's a sign of maturity it's like we need to pass through these trials to get to the next phase of crypto like it's not all fun and games like i would say probably defy summer is was going to be the best like fun to not fund ratio ever in crypto and it's not going to be like that it was so incredibly fun and the amounts of not fun things were not very high like the worst case was rug pulls like no one there's no like no one was committing fraud i mean some people were anyways you get what i'm saying it was like the crypto industry had way too much fun and the regulators just like somehow didn't pay attention to it

one year later they're finally coming back around and be like okay there's some like real value here like you got to pay our you got basically it's all like you got to pay the taxes right like they want to just make sure that they want to they want to collect their taxes the right way which yeah and this isn't to say that we're like bullish on on regulation and we want it to happen or anything but it's it's it's a kind of balance between what we want to happen and what we know is going to happen um we don't want regulation but we know it's going to happen regardless and how do we fight back against that how do we make true defile while we decentralize [ __ ] everything right like we need to decentralize the front ends the infrastructure the teams we need to make

sure that this stuff is actually unstoppable and you know there was that unisop drama i mean this is a good segue into what happened with uni swap where they took some of the tokens off of their own front end and you couldn't trade them through that front anymore and people said well this is censorship and it's like okay yes in a way it's censorship but it doesn't matter this is just it's one front end this is not censorship of a front end it's the most inconsequential thing yeah exactly and the protocol itself is fine the smart contracts are fine they can't actually do anything to the smart contracts so people were just like i think either trying to fight on purpose uneducated about it or just like plain old like i had no idea what they were talking about right um but it was just it was just

wild to see the different reactions it's like people are saying oh this is a slippery slope simply so for what like we knew the centralized front ends would always have uh centralized points of failure like i don't understand why people say like it's a slippery slope because as long as the smart contracts remain truly decentralized no one can alter them right and no one's gonna adopt if unisop said okay we're rolling out univ4 it's gonna have like a list of tokens that you can't trade on it no one's gonna use that like you know what i mean it's it's it's so it's so insane that these kind of like talking points come up and i really do think people need to realize that every single front end um uh that lives on like just a normal kind of um a web web hosting service or whatever is

centralized there are ways to do decentralized front ends um but then there are other centralized points of failure too sometimes like some infrastructure stuff out there uh and things like that so um you need to just realize that the difference between the protocol layer and the and the interface layer is uh is a key difference and it is exactly why we call this stuff d5 we don't call it d5 because of the front ends like that's that's not the point we call it defy because of the the protocol level stuff and the smart contracts and and being able to kind of i guess like make those truly decentralized but in saying that there are a lot of smart contracts today that have admin keys or multi-sigs or backdoors or whatever in them that um you know will decentralize over time at least what they that's what

they say but but they definitely are stoppable like if a if a regulator went after kind of like a team who has an admin key and said you need to do something on this protocol and that team refused well that team would be go to jail like let's be honest um so to avoid that you need to make the contracts purely decentralized you need to get rid of the admin keys like the most frustrating thing about this whole event is how like units what this is actually the second time we've done this with unit swap like you know swap like banned some countries from accessing the front end and like it was disappointing to see the same actors that caused a big uproar last time and then like i know they were listening to our response on twitter crypto twitter about like hey like doing

exactly what we just said right now and then those same actors come around for round two this time like oh i told you to swap was decentralized like dude we had this conversation like i know you know this isn't how it works yet you're still talking about it and it's just kind of goes to show like how many enemies for some reason ethereum has ah you know it's funny like you're reference you might be referencing alex gladstein or gladstein yeah yeah he was literally spreading false information like literally and and the thing is i don't know if he actually knows better i think he's his hate for ethereum blinds him to these sorts of stuff but he was basically doing victory laps saying yeah i see i told you that you know unisop was or centralized and um i just i mean i don't know man like it's

just it's actually so sad to see people that hate something so much that they spread false information like i personally never spread any false information about things that even like i'm not a fan of like bitcoin like obviously i'm not i'm not a huge fan of it but i'm not going to go out there and spread like false information about bitcoin or anything like that i i i sometimes like kind of um hop on about bitcoin's weak points but they're legitimate weak points they're not like actual things that aren't true sir they think that's false information yeah i mean but they can think whatever they want the facts are there like i know the one the one thing that i bring up a lot is the doodling security budget because of the block award going down but they're basing their um their their truth on the

fee revenue making up for that but if we look at the evidence the fee revenue has been going down for bitcoin over the years like uh solid terms in bitcoin terms in bitcoin yes yes but even in dollar terms the growth has not matched the the block award going uh subsidy halving at all like not even not even close to it and long term there's there's really no reason why the fear revenue should be high on bitcoin but um just anyway like when i see that it's just like it's funny how like people will believe one truth and then and then you know have their own version of the truth but there is objective truth in some of these stuff like unicef being decentralized the contracts is objective right unless you believe ethereum is centralized then you can make up whatever argument you want because you can basically say like

everything on ethereum is centralized which people have taken that liberties yeah exactly so um at the end of the day it's kind of and i think this is why people get into so many arguments about this sort of stuff as well is because everyone has their own version of the truth if you actually believe ethereum is centralized well then of course you're going to believe everything else is centralized on top of it um and and and it's funny because like people some people do actually believe ethereum is centralized even though it's it's just i mean it seems so insane and bizarre to us for people to say that uh but like if they if that's what they truly believe then that's that's just the way it's gonna be and there's not much we can do about it that's what they believe and that's it fortunately i've always been of the

opinion that like the bitcoin community and bitcoin bitcoiners who was largely who were talking about right now um uh hit their stride in growth really really early in their lifespan and then hit the limits of their growth also relatively early so like the bitcoin community dominated all of crypto up until i would say like late mid to late 2020 and the bitcoin community grew really really fast and they it gave them a sense that like they're gonna keep on growing and take over the whole entire world but instead of like the bitcoin community growing to like you know 10 of its total potential by the year 2020 you know bitcoin being like 11 years old it

actually grew to like 70 percent of its potential and it's actually kind of already like tapped out and that's kind of why i actually kind of i don't really know it's kind of hard to compare them these days but i kind of think the ethereum community is bigger than the bitcoin community at this point just because like the cr the crypto punk community is also an ethereum community right like the audience community is also an ethereum community and so it's not like ethereum by name we don't have a bunch of like cyber ethereum hornets going around but that's because we all are more decentralized and more fractured out into all these different like micro disciplines and we all make up ethereum at large when you add them all together i think we're way larger than the bitcoin community yeah i mean yeah if you do look at the

kind of like stuff built on top i think sorry i mean especially in the nft area um but like yeah the bitcoin community like as it still surprises me how big that community is but at the same time it's funny because like i think a lot of people want bitcoin to thrive and go up because they believe that if bitcoin's doing well the rest of the market does well and you know what they're right to believe that because that's been the pattern for such a long time um whereas i don't think that i don't know if that's going to be the pattern forever i i do think that a lot of this stuff will stand on its own merits i think ethereum is pretty much standing on its own kind of like merits these days yes it it moves with bitcoin but you could you

could make an argument that ethereum has been leading the market at at certain points in time in certain amounts of time so most of the time during bull markets yeah all yeah all markets exactly so yeah i mean just like looking at the edit from that perspective and kind of looking at it from a community like perspective as in the things built on top yeah you can make that you could definitely make that argument but it's hard to quantify um but i i think that more people more new people are interested in ethereum and things built on top of ethereum than bitcoin at least i think that's pretty pretty obvious yeah no 100 while we are roughly halfway through i want to plug the daily gray and the uh in the uh youtube comments hold on i didn't have it upright oh no

um but also while i'm doing that sazil here's something that maybe you haven't heard of that uh i think you're going to get really really stoked about is a panel that we're doing on tuesday on banquets it's the eve of eip here's the daily great youtube channel in the youtube comments so go follow anthony suzanna's youtube channel where he does stuff like this every single day um so panel on tuesday uh my morning time so your evening time uh it's going to be uh our typical tuesday live stream uh but it's going instead of me and ryan moderating we are letting tim baco take over and it's going to be uh tim baker moderating with uh barnaby from the from the ef hazu uh uh light clients if you know him uh and then also uh micah

zoltul zootool skill tool yeah and it's all going to be an eip1559 experts panel and so literally the questions that ryan and i aren't smart enough to ask uh tim is going to ask all of these like eip1559 like gigabrains uh on the eve before eip1559 so i know you're going to be super stoked to get get all that information downloaded into your ears yeah yeah i mean that's a that's a killer lineup for a panel i mean you couldn't have i have a better people on for that for sure i mean it's funny a lot of people obviously know about hazu um but and him to an extent but like uh light clients and um and micah they do not have a big public profile but they are definitely in i mean like

clients himself he's been pretty involved with the merge as well like he he's been he's the one who had uh speed headed the rainism project at one of the um 8th global hackathons to do a like a merge slash and sharding test net uh so yeah he's he's huge within the um ethereum core protocol research kind of like area there but and micah as well has been very active over like many years and he's uh i think he spends a lot of time thinking about the game theory of things i remember he was very active in the auger community early on too so um yeah i mean yeah definitely as you describe them giga brains it's gonna be uh that's gonna be a fun panel for sure so i actually uh met like like clients in paris and had a kind of an interesting pre-discussion about this

whole panel and so i want to get your take on this question uh what what is what is the main purpose of eip1559 what does eip1559 do the the main purpose is to smoothen out transaction fees in in my mind sorry i gotta make sure my dog's okay yeah it's all right yeah the main purpose is for me like to improve the the fee market by smoothing out your transaction fees that is the main and original purpose like but the thing is it's defensive you ask now because like you ask someone else they'll say oh the main people just to burn eat it's like i mean that's a that's a purpose but the funny thing is i actually don't think there's a main purpose i think there's like multiple things that are equal in importance yeah okay so that's exactly

what i said and and like like clients thought that that was like an interesting take i don't think eip1559 actually does anything i think it only does peripheral things and each of these peripheral things are all kind of composed together into this thing called the ip1559 yeah it definitely it it's definitely funny because like most people would have no idea about anything except the fever when it comes to one five five nine but i don't think saying that the fee burn is the purpose of one five five nine is correct actually i would say that is incorrect because the the fee burn was actually done to like kind of shove so shove something under the rug it was like [ __ ] like we can't pay the miners anymore what do we do with this ether now oh

[ __ ] let's just burn it like that's the eip that was actually literally not meant to burn ether yeah yeah there were other there were other proposals that came later that said uh well instead of burning the eighth we could just split it up so that miners couldn't gain the the mechanism and then everyone's like no no no no no no no no but but the thing is that the burning of the of it also serves a separate function which is more economical right where it takes the value that's being generated on the ethereum network instead of instead of kind of like socializing at the cost onto all eath holders because the the it goes to miners right there and they dump it it burns it so it actually increases the value over time of the of passive eath holders um and even active ones

like stakers and stuff like that i i think that uh yeah it just depends who you ask but at the same time i agree with you there's like there's no main purpose it's just like all these things coming together to i mean improve the free market and improve like each um uh economics and ethereum's monetary policy and it's just like it really is like a beautiful thing like the people who hate one five five nine normally hop on about uh the fee burn and it's like well why do you hate the fee burn like who cares if it's gonna make number go up like everything's about number go up at the end of the day like i don't i don't know what these people think they're getting paid in and if they thought that they'd still be able to work in this industry if either was

like a dollar like it just it's bizarre to me that people would hate um that you know the value of things going up because i think so this is maybe just like a bit of an aside here i think when people kind of like correlate uh talk uh prices going up they they correlate it with like lambos and like people getting rich and people like splurging money or whatever but but really like there's there's for sure that aspect of it right and there's a lot of people who do that and i only want that aspect of it but at the same time i always use this example with people look at how much each the ethereum foundation has it's just one example they have i think last time i checked four hundred thousand eight or something left every time the price of eight goes up a dollar that means that

the ethereum foundation has another 400 000 to spend on ethereum protocol you know uh development giving out grants funding things running the the the kind of like um devcon and stuff like that so and that's just one like think about all the other kind of like um uh companies working within crypto that hold eth on their balance sheet people that hold eight that at that kind of like spend that later on and buy different things and the money gets spread out think about all the other tokens that go up in value and like fun things so and and the burn is really just there to essentially make it so that all the value being generated by the ethereum network at least most of the value being generated by the ethereum network actually goes back to eat the asset which is used to secure the network

right like it's it's just insane to me it's like how do you think ethereum is secured it's it's not it's it's not by miners alone the miners are only mining because they're getting paid to do it same with the stake is the stakers we're only only going to stake because they're getting paid to do it so if you take away the the monetary incentive you get less security it's it's literally mapped one to one there is no kind of like middle ground here and and that's that's all the first order consequences as well right but there's so many second third fourth order consequences and like start starting with like some of the first big projects that got built on ethereum they were largely built by like eth maxis right who had a bunch of ether and they had the incentives to do so and like

because they built those projects ethereum became more useful and ether went up in price and so it rewarded some of those early ethereum like believers with more money and so who else is going to build the next useful ethereum application other than the people that just got rewarded for building the first ones and just it's just a it's just a virtuous cycle of just like people that believe in eath build on ethereum make their eth more useful make their eat more valuable have more funds to build and invest in more things and it's kind of one of the one a big conversation that we've been having on bank list is like when are the institutions coming when are the institutions coming or pardon me pardon the dog or do we just build our own goddamn institutions and

like to some degree like the faster and higher that eth price goes up the we can actually build our own institutions without having to worry about other institutions coming and like validating what we're doing here like are the institutions coming is actually coming from a place of weakness saying like institutions come and please like buy my bags because i'm insecure about my project or i don't give a i don't give a flying f about you mr or mrs institution like i'm just gonna make my bag super valuable regardless of whether you approve or not and i'm a much much better fan of the former path excuse me the latter path yeah yeah and i think one big kind of like second order effect of um the eighth price going up is allegiance right people

you know and and freedom because at the end of the day like you and i are able to do what we do because eath price went up like we both pretty much like quit our full-time jobs around the same time right when heath was going up because we didn't need to do it anymore we i mean i personally really enjoyed working at set full-time and everything like that and i'm still an advisor to them but like i wanted to do a bunch of other things like the daily grades a big part of it i wanted to advise and help other projects and stuff like that um and that was only possible because the eighth price went up because i can sustain myself with that and i'm you know me and you aren't the only people doing this there are so many people now that have done this and

they're adding value back to ethereum because eth gave them uh so much and eighth went up in price and things like that so those are and there's like a massive allegiance there too because of that so those second order effects like cannot be understated uh in any kind of like uh in any kind of way um and that's just something people miss because when you look at the surface level you look at people showing off their lambos and you know showing off their fancy dinners and stuff like that you kind of like maybe some people are grossed out by um the people showing off their wealth i personally don't really care but um i think you need to kind of like re-center and look at the the kind of like stuff that maybe people don't brag about and don't show on on twitter like there's no way for me to show that like

i i'm not going to put a tweet out where i say hey guys like eighth made me financially independent so now i'm doing my stuff like i don't want to say that i'm not like that kind of person so but whereas people who buy lambos and show it off on twitter i mean they're a different kind of breed right they they kind of like what they kind of like want to want to show off that wealth um so yeah i think there's just different people yeah yeah and the lambo people don't tend to be they aren't tend to like the ethereum core community regardless right the lambo people tend to be a little bit more more the trader types i think the deeper and deeper you get into the ethereum community the lambos are just dumb to the ethereum people like if you the the overlap

between crypto punk owners and lambo owners i don't think there is an overlap i i'd be really willing to bet that yeah and you could definitely argue that like uh you know crypto punks like buying an expensive funky lambos yeah yeah but it's a crypto punch yeah yeah yeah yeah but like and it's funny it's just like i'm not judging anyone like how they you know spend or show off their wealth but just in terms of like looking at things as like a surface level stuff i think a lot of people have like this you know i guess image in their head of like gross wealth and they think that crypto enables a lot of gross wealth and it does like think about the amount of scammers that have made a lot of money in this industry and i totally get that but i think that's kind of like focusing

in on the negatives and the bad aspects of of this of number going up instead of the good aspects of it and i think ethereum as an ecosystem uh besides like the the grossness of the 2017 ico i think generally ethereum as an ecosystem has has done well in this kind of like space i think we learned from 2017 um and even d5 summer wasn't even like there was a lot of money flowing around but it wasn't even that gross i would say i think d5 some a lot of that money got reinvested into various projects and defy actually you know finally grew into what uh what we all knew it was going to be so there was a lot of positive effects from that wealth creation yeah the defect summer kind of feels like uh d5 is like puberty moment to me like mainly the growth of the governance

tokens like that governance tokens was like this is the adult version of defy uh rather than like the kid version which is like more of just a playground yeah yeah i mean yeah it's funny definitely defy summary is what kicked off uh defy into mainstream consciousness which like if you look back in may of 2020 i'm pretty sure unit shop was only doing 10 million dollars of 24 hour volume which is like nothing compared to what it does a billion dollar plus today of 24 hour volume so um and that's only on layer one like if you're gonna account for layer two once that gets more adoption these things are just gonna get so much bigger than we can even imagine and i think yeah d5 summer i mean that's a good way of putting it was like the puberty moment for for uh for d5 for sure so speaking

of uh well i guess it's specifically not speaking of that vitalik's big talk at ecc was all about like ethereum beyond defy and all the non-financial use cases of ethereum what's your take on that do you think that that's what's coming next or or what's up with that i mean i think it's already here like i don't think we have to wait for this i think we're already seeing um a lot of these things that don't kind of like have direct connections to d5 taking off like in ens for as an example has been around for a while a lot of us have had our ans names for a while and more and more people are getting on that train but is that not d5 it's not it's not like so so this is the this is the thing it's not directly defy right like you can say that anything's

d5 because it's a financial thing like but to me defy is like a core set of things like money markets exchange like derivatives that sort of sort of stuff right okay but but there's like the the kind of like things that hang off of that and that can tap into that like ens for example you can trade ens names and stuff like that and you can maybe one day you can use your ans as like collateral for a loan or whatever um but yeah i i feel like there's there's definitely a distinction to be made and same with like nfts like nfts are definitely part of d5 because you trade them on on exchanges and stuff like that but anything with a token is like all already at least 50 percent finance it's not 100 yeah yeah but exactly so i think that

but but you know when i think about d5 definitely think about the the actual hard d5 as i like to call like the the money markets the exchange all that sort of stuff um rather than yeah rather than like things that hang off of it but and i think that's that yeah i think that might be what like vitalik kind of like goes on about too is that like yes you know everything there's a there's a kind of like aspect of d fight to it but um if you talk about hard versus soft d5 maybe that's the distinction that needs to be made uh and i think yeah ens like web 3 stuff like decentralized social media and stuff like that like that is definitely going to have like a lot of aspects of d5 built into it you know there's going to be tipping there's going to be like

one click you know exchanging of assets and stuff like that there's already extensions that do this with existing twitter uh but it's not going to be like hard defy it's not it's not going to be considered a financial product at its core it won't be in the finance textbooks fair enough okay i take that point yeah when ryan and i were talking about that this we kind of came to the conclusion that like well like to do any sort of transaction on ethereum costs money and that cost is only going to go up over time therefore the only thing that's you're going to do on ethereum are things that financially benefit you and therefore we're into defy so like anything you do on ethereum is by definition d5 right that's i would argue that's layer one though because you're talking about like what transactions price out other

transactions i i mean i i would actually go a step further and say that uh d5 will get priced out by layer two proofs um on layer one because layer two proofs will be worth more i mean how long do you think that's actually that's gonna take it'll take it'll take a while it'll take a little while but it's still gonna happen i i think and because of the fact that layer two uh proofs are gonna be i'm gonna have like tons of economic value to them and they're just gonna be d5 bundles those are just d5 bundles pricing out d5 singles but they're also going to be bundles of of other things that happen like um you know other kind of like things that hang off of d5 but aren't directly defy but then all the l1 things that i was talking about are just going to be the

same thing i'm going to say about the l2 where the everything is getting bundled up again well i mean i guess like it depends on on kind of like which l2s as well because there's going to be like l2s that are going to be specific to one use case and going to be permissionless to deploy to so for example there's going to be l2s that have like just nfts on them right um or just like a decentralized social media on it now you know layer one space is obviously constrained and you might have like these layer twos that are app specific uh being priced out of layer one because they're not as valuable as the um the maybe the d5 l2s and maybe to kind of like fix that these kind of like uh nft based l2s need to maybe migrate

or like go to a more valuable place so they can actually kind of like share the load there it's actually going to be kind of funny to see how that plays out like are the nft specific l2s going to be priced out by the d5 specific l2 from player 1. you know what i mean like it's it's going to take a while to answer these questions but logically it should happen because logically the um most uh valuable transactions are the ones that will get settled on layer 1 first um and and the l2 operators are gonna be like well you know these are all super important transactions these are generating a ton of fees for our network we want to be first and we're gonna pay the the fees to do so uh but i think we're gonna yeah it's gonna be a while before we figure that out it's gonna be

many years i think i i think there's gonna be some sort of elegant relationship between like l2's demand or desire to make an l1 transaction and eip one five five nine right because eip1559 is the tide that that shifts up and down and so are the gas markets but now with the ip1559 the water level is clear uh and so i i i'm not an expert in this but like my gut takes tend to be pretty accurate over time it's like we have the eip for 1559 tied going up and down and then we have all these l2s with economic activity on them and as the engines of the l2s run it starts to collect and pool fees and once the fees of the l2 get high enough to meet the water level of eip1559 wherever it

is it'll make it it'll make a transaction on chain and then that pool will deplete and then everything will go onto the chain and then they'll repeat like the economic activity of the engine will start to accrue some savings some transaction fees some fees some savings they grow grow grow and eventually grows high enough to the point where it's like oh we just met the threshold for wherever the demand to execute a transaction on l1 is we'll make a transaction and so really the the how lively every single l2 is is going to be a function of how much economic activity is on each l2 and so the more economic activity that's on an l2 the more lively it is with the actual ethereum how up to date it is with ethereum because they can generate more transaction fees on the l2 and sync the l2 to the l1 at a

faster tick rate that's kind of been my mental model for how this works out in the long term yeah i mean it makes sense and i would actually say that like with one five five nine we also have this is like a a benefit that doesn't get talked about enough we also have like an on-chain gas oracle now where you're going to have predictability about the gas price because of the base fee so these l2s will be able to basically time their transactions uh and their proof transactions are like much better than they would so like all this stuff's just coming together man like it's amazing that you know people kind of say uh that people don't realize that one five five nine is not just like an upgrade for um you know eighth burning and stuff like that and smoothing out the transaction fees for

users it's also a massive upgrade for l2s and we have l2s coming online now and going to take advantage of this so and just i mean it's amazing how it's all coming together and then the merge in like q1 hopefully with the um issuance dropping or the triple hardening which is i think the triple hardening is even more bullish than one five five nine by by a long shot because we're basically dropping the issuance by about 90 percent instantly like literally like that like a switch being turned whereas with one five five nine it's more of an ebb and flow thing where some days we'll have like really high heat being burned other days we won't but also the merge and and the triple harvesting means that we're gonna if if the gas prices above like eleven way at current eat staked amount we're gonna be

burning more ethan we're issuing each yard uh so it's just it's it's it's really cool how like we've all been looking forward to this for a long time but it's all coming together in a relatively kind of like uh same same time like six twelve months sort of thing which i think is awesome yeah and all of these things play into each other like like you said and even charting plays into into this as well because while sharding scales out the bass chain in in theory it as a over the long term it'll generate more aggregate fees and so i totally agree with you that like proof of stake is bullish in the near term like now that'll then much more than eip1559 is but i think eip159 is actually the most bullish in the long term but also granted like the the reduction of issues is so incredibly important

it's like you can't parse these things apart from each other they're all one cohere design structure for ethereum and that's kind of why it's been so fun to watch ethereum like develop over time is like oh yeah we have proof of stake in charting these are our two solutions and then you realize that those two things actually work really well together not just sharding on proof of work and then you add in eip1559 and the nature in the relationship between proof of stake and charting those are those are all interrelated and then you bring on l2s and like the demand for a transaction on ethereum because of l2 just goes even higher so you have some assurances that the floor of eip1559 is going to be high enough so that it burns enough ether so that also relates to all the other

things and thank god we have sharding which can sink all different l2 transactions as fast as they need to like it all weaves together it's just and it's it's why the the right word for ethereum is always a nexus it's always a nexus left and right because everything touches every other thing in like this very elegant way and so i've been you on me and everyone else have been patiently waiting for like ethereum and final form to come about and it's just absolutely been worth the wait yeah yeah and it's funny because it may feel like forever uh to to people because like timing crypto just moves like differently to time in real life um but like yeah it's definitely i mean it has been a while to be fair like two years over two years since one five five

nine was first proposed proof of stake has been like an idea since ethereum was first concepted in like late 2013 um but like in terms of like the actual movement on proof of stake i would say 2018 to 2020 so it was like we had like the bulk of the movement that the spec coming together finally the development happening and then the chain launching in december 1st 2020 and now like where and and all these kind of like foundations that have been laid over the years coming together now like pretty much i mean i think 2015 so ethereum six birthdays obviously today um oh yeah happy sixth birthday ethereum yeah yeah yeah but like since july 30th 2015 to i think like 2020 uh maybe maybe uh june 2020 ethereum was

just laying the foundations for all that's happening right now because we had d5 summer kickoff we had nf the nft renaissance over like i guess like the the winter in the northern hemisphere so like q4 q1 sort of thing and now we're having the l2 stuff happening and then and you know we're finally going to emerge to prove mistake we're going to have ethereum's monetary policy finally kind of cemented with one five five nine and proof of stake it's it's just like it's funny like once you've got the foundations built out everything else uh comes together really quickly and and charting finally as well like probably the next couple years or something like that so i mean yeah it's it's never i don't think it's ever been a more exciting time to be in ethereum than it is right now and that's why the regulators are here

yeah like all of these all these good things that can't be too good because you know as as awesome and powerful as the theorem's about to become like people feel it people feel in the in the legacy world regardless of whether they can articulate it or not exactly so yeah we've come full circle and as you said at the start i think regulations people paying attention to us is good it means that we're going mainstream that's exactly what we wanted but we just have to be careful we need to make sure these regulations aren't you know silly and restricting uh to the point where it just doesn't make any sense and i think we will get there i think that we we have enough good people on our side uh debating and arguing and putting forward our mission towards these regulators and i think that given

the nature of what we're building we can fend off these regulators just with code as well which i should definitely keep trying to do yeah the whole if we can't if we can do it we should it's kind of the whole point of what we're doing here anyways anthony you've got you've gotten a bunch of compliments on your uh your nft display behind you that's that's the uh kitty uh nft isn't it yeah it's rotating between the kitty and block explorer nft and the eip1559 supporter nft every couple of minutes so yeah um i it's funny like i i i'm pretty proud of the fact that i was the first one to mint the one five five nine supporter nft got one of one five five nine but is it actually one or or is that just in your head oh that's actually one yeah i was the first one to mince it so

yeah one of one five five nine um which which is very cool for sure and kitty made that one as well like he's he's awesome like he's a good friend um he's he's really awesome i love his work and he spends a lot of um time making sure that it's detailed but for those of you who want to know what the display is it's called a mural 2 from netgear um but there's a bunch of them out there if you just google google like nft displays there's so many people companies popping up now like there's dedicated companies coming up with like displays and there's different ones you can get i think i want to get a square one next because with a square one you can display like a certain nfts better than you can on something like this because this is like um portrait or landscape

um so i mean i i think that's just awesome as well like i can't wait when i get my own place to have all this like properly on the wall and stuff like i have a bigger room and then just have people over and they're like what's that it's like wow let me tell you i'm so glad you asked let me tell you about this nft thing where should i start well in 2014 this guy named italic he was really frustrated with world of warcraft and the perils of centralization and that's why i don't have any real paintings in my house yeah exactly exactly oh man all right well all right guys that is the hour so if you guys are watching the youtube chat all 165 of you once again this is the bankless daily

way semi-regular friday saturday morning weekly live stream if you guys don't know anthony which it would be weird if you didn't but if you don't uh here's his youtube channel where he does daily gray stuff every single day talks about what's going on in ethereum it's what i use to keep up to date because this guy lives breathes and will eventually die ethereum as i will as well uh and so there's his youtube channel uh and also subscribe to bankless because uh reasons anthony good to talk to you